I am shocked by this poll finding – politicalbetting.com

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I am shocked by this poll finding – politicalbetting.com

NEW British least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way of settling political issues https://t.co/9IPhhXzwNS #BrexitDividend pic.twitter.com/JOFMyIJl1E

Read the full story here

TheScreamingEagles

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

ydoethur

'That we British are the least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way settling political issues has left me shocked in a way only matched by the time Captain Renault discovered gambling was taking place in Rick’s Cafe.'

Your winnings m'sieu.

ydoethur

Have we lost the edit function? That's perfectly fine if so.

TheScreamingEagles

ydoethur said:

Have we lost the edit function? That's annoying if so.

I think Vanilla are doing one of their periodical archiving process, that removes the edit button for a bit.

malcolmg

FPT
DougSeal said:

» show previous quotes
I’ve had all of those just from Malc. And I’m not even a Unionist.

That is just a barefaced lie, I would never ever use any of those words. Nasty nasty post.

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

ICYMI

Ahead of National Pizza Day on February 9 [2021], Uber Eats has revealed the UK’s top 10 favourite pizza toppings, with vegetarian, pepperoni and four cheese making the top three.

Pizza proved extremely popular this year with orders increasing by 294% in the past year as the nation turned to comfort food to get them through the year.

The nation may be looking for comfort but Brits are still trying to get their five a day as vegetarian toppled classics pepperoni and four cheese in the list of favourites. But meat lovers can rest assured that their favourites are still safe with meat feast and bacon joining pepperoni in the top 10.

Meanwhile the nation seems to believe that pineapple does belong on pizza with the controversial topping coming in sixth. From pineapple to pepperoni, Uber Eats offers a wide range of options to cater to all topping needs.


The UK’s Top 10 Pizza Toppings:

Vegetarian
Pepperoni
Four cheese
Margherita
Meat feast
Hawaiian
Olives
Tuna and sweetcorn
Bacon
Spicy jalapeno

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/food-drink-news/uks-favourite-pizza-toppings-ranked-19775001

Foxy

ydoethur said:

'That we British are the least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way settling political issues has left me shocked in a way only matched by the time Captain Renault discovered gambling was taking place in Rick’s Cafe.'

Your winnings m'sieu.

On this, the British are right. You either have no place for referendums or a Swiss system where they happen several times a year. Nothing else seems to work in a representative democracy.

FrancisUrquhart

Tokyo Olympics: A look at how Team GB fared sport-by-sport compared to their funding. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58112331

Hockey gets a hell of a lot of money for something you can only win two medals in. And I didn't realise quite how much canoeing gets.

Leon

Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

Carnyx

TheScreamingEagles said:

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).

malcolmg

this about sums it up.............
The Diary of Rupert St John-Fontaine: Kilts, a dark car park and meeting UK mole
I’VE been sent north to Holyrood to work at the heart of the SNP war machine as a Boris Johnson sleeper. My mission? To provide intelligence on Sturgeon’s independence plans. But who is the mysterious “H”, the Scottish cabinet secretary who is to be my handler? And where do the Brothers Grim – Smyth and McDonald – fit in after they gate-crashed my farewell do at Masopust’s?
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19498869.diary-rupert-st-john-fontaine-kilts-dark-car-park-meeting-uk-mole/#comments-anchor

ydoethur

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

'That we British are the least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way settling political issues has left me shocked in a way only matched by the time Captain Renault discovered gambling was taking place in Rick’s Cafe.'

Your winnings m'sieu.

On this, the British are right. You either have no place for referendums or a Swiss system where they happen several times a year. Nothing else seems to work in a representative democracy.

The funny thing is, before 1973 (the Northern Ireland referendum, such as it was) lots of referendums had been proposed but I can't think of any that actually took place.

Churchill wanted a referendum in 1945 on continuing the 1935 parliament until the defeat of Japan - but Attlee withdrew Labour from the coalition and an election was held instead.

Bonar Law suggested a referendum on Tariff Reform in 1913 - but by the time the Unionists won an election in their own strength again nine years had passed and the pledge was ditched.

I think Gladstone proposed a referendum on Home Rule for Ireland as well in 1885, although I'm not sure of that.

Given that the ones held since have mostly been a dog's breakfast, it's not surprising the electorate are getting fed up with them.

Carnyx

Leon said:

Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

Not in Scotland. There is a reasonable majority in favour of calling indyref when the current covid unpleasantness is out of the way (efectively: given the timings involved.

TheScreamingEagles

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).

I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.

Plus I have a piece coming up on the franchise etc on any future Indyref, basically all sides to not try and rig the franchise as it will delegitimise the result.

Carnyx

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

Not in Scotland. There is a reasonable majority in favour of calling indyref when the current covid unpleasantness is out of the way (efectively: given the timings involved.

Damn, no edit button: sorry: should have stressed this is independent of whether yes or no in the vote itself.

JosiasJessop

FrancisUrquhart said:

Tokyo Olympics: A look at how Team GB fared sport-by-sport compared to their funding. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58112331

Hockey gets a hell of a lot of money for something you can only win two medals in. And I didn't realise quite how much canoeing gets.

I guess the problem with hockey is that the money has to support at least eleven players, whereas other sports may only have to support three or four candidates?

Carnyx

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).

I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.

Plus I have a piece coming up on the franchise etc on any future Indyref, basically all sides to not try and rig the franchise as it will delegitimise the result.

Thanks - the 1970s were a long time ago ... and the franchise piece will be interesting given some of the comments on PB and leaks from a certain quarter.

DecrepiterJohnL

FrancisUrquhart said:

Tokyo Olympics: A look at how Team GB fared sport-by-sport compared to their funding. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58112331

Hockey gets a hell of a lot of money for something you can only win two medals in. And I didn't realise quite how much canoeing gets.

It begs the question of what funding is for: medals or participation. And what about medalists? Some sports "cheat" by giving lots of medals to the same handful of participants, like swimming and cycling.

malcolmg

Leon said:

Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

I am just off for a nice lunch at Troon Marina , I will miss the abuse for an hour or two , but I will return in pleasant demeanour as ever.

rcs1000

ydoethur said:

Have we lost the edit function? That's perfectly fine if so.

Works for me.

Carnyx

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

'That we British are the least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way settling political issues has left me shocked in a way only matched by the time Captain Renault discovered gambling was taking place in Rick’s Cafe.'

Your winnings m'sieu.

On this, the British are right. You either have no place for referendums or a Swiss system where they happen several times a year. Nothing else seems to work in a representative democracy.

In which case, logically, the thumping majority of SNP representatives in Westminster should be quite sufficient to settle the question at once. As Mrs Thatcher acknowledged (albeit speaking sarcastically at the time, and not specifying any other decision-making mechanism).

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).

I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.

Oh, I thought you excluded it because it was a tighter result than EUREf.

rcs1000

malcolmg said:

Leon said:

Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

I am just off for a nice lunch at Troon Marina , I will miss the abuse for an hour or two , but I will return in pleasant demeanour as ever.

I think there’s an excess ‘l’ in that last sentence.

Theuniondivvie

Leon said:

Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

Proud patriot with bags groaning with flaked Parmesan.

ydoethur

rcs1000 said:

ydoethur said:

Have we lost the edit function? That's perfectly fine if so.

Works for me.

So I see!

Challenge: edit this one to change its meaning:

Radiohead are the greatest band in the history of the universe.

Edit - It's back! IT's BACKKKK!

malcolmg

rcs1000 said:

malcolmg said:

Leon said:

Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

I am just off for a nice lunch at Troon Marina , I will miss the abuse for an hour or two , but I will return in pleasant demeanour as ever.

I think there’s an excess ‘l’ in that last sentence.

The more the merrier Robert

Aslan

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

'That we British are the least likely in the world to think referendums are a good way settling political issues has left me shocked in a way only matched by the time Captain Renault discovered gambling was taking place in Rick’s Cafe.'

Your winnings m'sieu.

On this, the British are right. You either have no place for referendums or a Swiss system where they happen several times a year. Nothing else seems to work in a representative democracy.

I quite like the (probably unplanned) approach in the UK. We have parliament to decide regular policy and the public to decide proposed constitutional changes.

FrancisUrquhart

JosiasJessop said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Tokyo Olympics: A look at how Team GB fared sport-by-sport compared to their funding. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58112331

Hockey gets a hell of a lot of money for something you can only win two medals in. And I didn't realise quite how much canoeing gets.

I guess the problem with hockey is that the money has to support at least eleven players, whereas other sports may only have to support three or four candidates?

Yes. Canoeing was the one I was most surprised with.

Theuniondivvie

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

Carnyx

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).

I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.

Oh, I thought you excluded it because it was a tighter result than EUREf.

Still got 1997 and that wasn't so tight. Nicely decisive, esp. with Mr Blair's trick tax question also dealt with. But again long enough ago.

ydoethur

Carnyx said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).

I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.

Oh, I thought you excluded it because it was a tighter result than EUREf.

Still got 1997 and that wasn't so tight. Nicely decisive, esp. with Mr Blair's trick tax question also dealt with. But again long enough ago.

Unlike the one on the Welsh Assembly. That was a genuinely tight result.

DougSeal

Deleted - Vanilla is being a bit weird

Carnyx

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

Grovel grovel. But seriously thanks. No mention of 1978?

Let's see - which bloggers are/were commissioning polls on Scotland? Wings did, but he AFAIK is hors de combat for now, and ScotGoesPop still is (Sarissa pointed out one by him on what the Scots thought of having only a "GB" team in you know what).

I decided to exclude 1979 referendum on the grounds it is unlikely to cause the poll findings above, so stuck to recent plebiscites.

Oh, I thought you excluded it because it was a tighter result than EUREf.

Still got 1997 and that wasn't so tight. Nicely decisive, esp. with Mr Blair's trick tax question also dealt with. But again long enough ago.

Unlike the one on the Welsh Assembly. That was a genuinely tight result.

*looks up* - ooh, so it was. 50.3/49.7.

Taz

malcolmg said:

Leon said:

Vaguely on topic, the PB Scot Nits do same even angrier than normal, first Stuart Dickson goes full-on blood-and-soil measure-their-skulls Ethno-Nat, then the uniondivvie’s typical waspishness devolves to a faintly sad, rather bitter sourness, now even the peaceful malcolmg, who barely has a bad word for anyone, seems a little dyspeptic

I wonder if it is, partly, the above finding. The Brits have gone off referendums. Including indyrefs

I am just off for a nice lunch at Troon Marina , I will miss the abuse for an hour or two , but I will return in pleasant demeanour as ever.

Don’t fret, sunshine, you’ll carry on the abuse when you get back. I’m sure a break will do you good.

DougSeal

Indie Sage now expanding their remit into imperialism I see

Martin McKee
@martinmckee
The international community needs to rethink concepts of state sovereignty - whether it’s Bolsanaro burning rainforests & encouraging COVID variants or Lukashenko weaponising migrants

https://twitter.com/martinmckee/status/1424333602519724035

TheScreamingEagles

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Carnyx

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

The complication of course is that some Unionists want to impose a referendum at once before Mr Johnson does any more damage or the shine comes off Mr Sunak's reputation - like Wendy Alexander and her 'Bring it on'. So can be tricky to interpret the results, but you know that.

TheScreamingEagles

I think my father should take all the credit for this.

Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

HYUFD

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

No, it showed Scots oppose a referendum this year by 47% to 40%.

42%, a plurality of 2%, backed a referendum in 5 years but that is not a majority and also would be after the next UK general election in 2024/24

https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1424075589103849472?s=20

DougSeal

Off topic but has anyone else noticed how Covid rates in South America, and Brazil especially, have fallen off a cliff in the middle of their winter?

DougSeal

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think my father should take all the credit for this.

Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

Well done TSE Senior!

Leon

For anyone who suffered through the kick-bash-stodge fest of the recent Lions-SA series, watch this. The All Blacks run the length of the field against Oz

The try was eventually disallowed for a forward pass, but despite that....

Just watch. And marvel

https://twitter.com/allblacks/status/1423948512346001409?s=21

Carnyx

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

No, it showed Scots oppose a referendum this year by 47% to 40%.

42%, a plurality of 2%, backed a referendum in 5 years but that is not a majority and also would be after the next UK general election in 2024/24

https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1424075589103849472?s=20

Those who don't know don't count.

TheScreamingEagles

DougSeal said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think my father should take all the credit for this.

Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

Well done TSE Senior!

He is said it is just like the MMR jab, some people just need a bit of reassurance.

If we do end up jabbing kids then the government needs to be ahead of the game on that as well.

Carnyx

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

No, it showed Scots oppose a referendum this year by 47% to 40%.

42%, a plurality of 2%, backed a referendum in 5 years but that is not a majority and also would be after the next UK general election in 2024/24

https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1424075589103849472?s=20

And nobody can face a referendum till covid - and also Brexit - are settled. Remember Brexit is still unresolved in crucial areas. NI not sorted (which is highly relevant to Scotland wanting its own similar status). And the import controls still needing to be implemented into the UK.

Edit: you also need to allow for the timing of the actual referendum, and a year is the sort of warning people think about as a nice round number. Add the above issues, and it is a non starter till this time next year at best.

FrancisUrquhart

Three (White, Male) Tough Guys Sign Off. Is It a Moment?

Bosch,” “Mr. Inbetween” and “Jack Irish,” dependably good and noticeably old-fashioned, all reach the end of the hard-boiled road.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/02/arts/television/middle-aged-white-heroes.html

Some people see everything through the lens of race. And of course its not true, because Bosch hasn't finished...its coming back on IMDB TV (also owned by Amazon).

Theuniondivvie

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

Carnyx

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

And if there is no [edit] London willingness to have a referendum ever - then the question devolves (sorry) to parliamentary democracy and a simple majority of MPs for Scottish seats. I think Foxy put his finger on the issue: either have ad lib referenda on request, or none at all.

Leon

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

No. Next question

Carnyx

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

No. Next question

Er, wardrobe malfunction: your spinal pad is showing.

Anyway, I'm off now - play nicely everyone.

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

DougSeal said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think my father should take all the credit for this.

Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

Well done TSE Senior!

He is said it is just like the MMR jab, some people just need a bit of reassurance.

If we do end up jabbing kids then the government needs to be ahead of the game on that as well.

Its a good job GB News wasn't on air when the oldies got jabbed....wall to wall antivaxxer propaganda on there.

Carnyx

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

No. Next question

Er, wardrobe malfunction: your spine [edit] pad is showing.

Anyway, I'm off now - play nicely everyone.

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

No. Next question

Er, wardrobe malfunction: your spinal pad is showing.

Anyway, I'm off now - play nicely everyone.

Damn, can't edit. Should have said spine pad. Sorry.

Theuniondivvie

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

And if there is no [edit] London willingness to have a referendum ever - then the question devolves (sorry) to parliamentary democracy and a simple majority of MPs for Scottish seats. I think Foxy put his finger on the issue: either have ad lib referenda on request, or none at all.

There's no doubt the UK is uncomfortable with referendums, mainly because they stumble into them due to external pressures and stupid promises for electoral advantage (hi, Dave!). I expect the next one will follow a similar pattern- fudge, evade, obfuscate, lurch.

Leon

Carnyx said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

No. Next question

Er, wardrobe malfunction: your spine [edit] pad is showing.

Anyway, I'm off now - play nicely everyone.

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

No. Next question

Er, wardrobe malfunction: your spinal pad is showing.

Anyway, I'm off now - play nicely everyone.

Damn, can't edit. Should have said spine pad. Sorry.

Wtf is a ‘spine pad’ anyway?

tlg86

I can't see Switzerland in that chart. It would be interesting to see what they think.

Personally I think we need more referenda. But it's generally better if the government of the day is happy to implement the decision of the people. That wasn't the case in 2016 (and, maybe, not in 2014).

Theuniondivvie

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

No. Next question

Sorry this is Cosa Nostra, no pollster really cares what flint knappers on the Camden-Primrose Hill border think about this.

Leon

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

stodge

Afternoon all

After my roast lunch (minus a ton of flaked parmesan), I'm in slightly reflective mood.

I have to confess I wish I had listened to those siren voices who opined referenda were the tool of the despot. Irrespective of whether you think the decision was "right" or "wrong", two referenda (referendums, I really don't care) have poisoned political debate over the past seven years and look set to do so for years to come.

Thread after thread on here devolve into pointless baseline arguments over Scottish independence and whether or not we should have left the EU.

It's not as though the world has stopped turning while we've indulged in our introspective navel gazing.

rcs1000

tlg86 said:

I can't see Switzerland in that chart. It would be interesting to see what they think.

Personally I think we need more referenda. But it's generally better if the government of the day is happy to implement the decision of the people. That wasn't the case in 2016 (and, maybe, not in 2014).

Maybe proper, frequent referenda, and the job of the government becomes technocratic: implementing the decisions of the people.

The difficulty, of course, is that (as California shows), it is perfectly possible to have the people give two entirely contradictory instructions.

Leon

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

No. Next question

Sorry this is Cosa Nostra, no pollster really cares what flint knappers on the Camden-Primrose Hill border think about this.

Well, given that I have a vote in the Westminster Parliament, and it is that Parliament which decides when our Scottish colony gets a vote on Indy, or not, that’s pretty tough shit for you Scotch. But such is life

rottenborough

Patel has decided to piss off the Sun (and all other newspapers). Good luck with her leadership bid in a couple of years time. Slack is now at the Sun.



John Rentoul
@JohnRentoul
·
1h
James Slack, recently Boris Johnson’s spokesperson, says Priti Patel’s plan to toughen Official Secrets Act is “chilling”

rcs1000

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

geoffw

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

FrancisUrquhart

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

But you don't get to cheer on your juiced up athletes win loads of medals at the Olympics....

FrancisUrquhart

geoffw said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

France should be banned from hosting the Olympics if they are going to be behave like this....

BREAKING: The Gold medal for biggest d*ckhead of the Tokyo Olympics goes to French marathon runner Morhad Amdouni who deliberately knocks over all the water for his fellow competitors…Unbelievable! https://t.co/D4IwmlAHlL

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1424305458320392201?s=19

Leon

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

Small dick energy vibe in this comment

Benpointer

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!

TheScreamingEagles

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

Not currently under the Scotland Act.

However I'd say yes but on the proviso that Sturgeon/the Scottish Parliament set out the steps for what happens next?

1) What happens if Scotland votes no once more? Will we enter a period of neverendums?

2) If Scotland votes yes then will Scotland have a confirmatory/second referendum on the deal, something Sturgeon was in favour of between 2016 and 2019.

MaxPB

On the referendum just thinking back to the terrible remain campaign and Obama's ill judged "back of the queue" comment. Since then US policy wrt the EU looks a lot more like what Trump left behind than what Obama said would happen. We're now well past the point where Biden could have undone everything Trump put in place but he hasn't and the US is far, far more hostile towards the EU than it was under Obama and it has been conducting almost all of its foreign policy on a bilateral basis with the nations of the EU rather than via the EU.

It's not a huge deal and probably reflects America's first priority of securing it's primacy in Asia and the Pacific and the Brexit effect of the major diplomatic partner no longer being in it.

I just thought it was interesting how different the post-Brexit realpolitik is to what Obama and the remain campaign were hopecasting. The UK/US relationship is still far, far more important to the US and UK than either of their relationships with the EU. Both the UK and US are conducting foreign policy without involving the EU and this is being aided and abetted by Macron who sees an opportunity to put France's interests at the top of the table without interference from the other 26 nations.

It will be interesting to see how the next 10 years plays out as the UK and US increasingly put their focus on Asia and the Pacific and continue to sidestep the EU. It may force the Eurocrats into a corner and try and make a play for France's UN security council seat and a new treaty to take over all external foreign policy.

bigjohnowls

Havent we all done this

https://twitter.com/reviews0context/status/1423933977744838656/photo/1

TheScreamingEagles

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!

Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.

Leon

FrancisUrquhart said:

geoffw said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

France should be banned from hosting the Olympics if they are going to be behave like this....

BREAKING: The Gold medal for biggest d*ckhead of the Tokyo Olympics goes to French marathon runner Morhad Amdouni who deliberately knocks over all the water for his fellow competitors…Unbelievable! https://t.co/D4IwmlAHlL

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1424305458320392201?s=19

Crikey. That’s pretty bad

Also check this guy. Another Frog, apparently.

https://twitter.com/mmetsola/status/1424336194679283717?s=21

rcs1000

FrancisUrquhart said:

geoffw said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

France should be banned from hosting the Olympics if they are going to be behave like this....

BREAKING: The Gold medal for biggest d*ckhead of the Tokyo Olympics goes to French marathon runner Morhad Amdouni who deliberately knocks over all the water for his fellow competitors…Unbelievable! https://t.co/D4IwmlAHlL

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1424305458320392201?s=19

They give a gold medal for being a dickhead?

No wonder Scotland wants independence, that’s three medals for their bloggers from day one.

Benpointer

FrancisUrquhart said:

geoffw said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

France should be banned from hosting the Olympics if they are going to be behave like this....

BREAKING: The Gold medal for biggest d*ckhead of the Tokyo Olympics goes to French marathon runner Morhad Amdouni who deliberately knocks over all the water for his fellow competitors…Unbelievable! https://t.co/D4IwmlAHlL

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1424305458320392201?s=19

Looking forward to Paris 2024 tbh...

I am sure the French will put on a brilliant show with real panache. And only 3 years to wait!

MaxPB

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.

bigjohnowls

Who hasn't had this problem

https://twitter.com/yofal/status/1424229172034031619/photo/1

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!

Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.

Fake News...not this Olympics....new funding round is when the new focus starts.

Benpointer

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!

Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.

😂 Medals and More = More medals (than anyone expected)!

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DougSeal said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think my father should take all the credit for this.

Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

Well done TSE Senior!

He is said it is just like the MMR jab, some people just need a bit of reassurance.

If we do end up jabbing kids then the government needs to be ahead of the game on that as well.

Its a good job GB News wasn't on air when the oldies got jabbed....wall to wall antivaxxer propaganda on there.

I know, that channel needs shutting down for being a threat to public health.

Benpointer

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!

Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.

Fake News...not this Olympics....new funding round is when the new focus starts.

How's your Team GB althletics medal projection looking? ;-)

Benpointer

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.

I thought you were singing its praises and planning to escape to there not so long ago?

WhisperingOracle

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

We've had fair political development owing partly to particular developments of protestantism, but an artistic legacy on anything like the scale of France's and Italy's would need another couple of centuries of making up for the biases of the Victorians against expression, where Britain lost a lot of artistic ground.

Theuniondivvie

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, didn't the recent Redfield Wilton poll show a majority of Scots wanted a referendum within the next 5 years?

It did, but that's a slightly different question.

I'd like to see a poll with the exact same question that Ipsos MORI used on a proper Scotland poll.

Let's face it, no one gives a fuck about the AV ref.

I'm a first principles kinda guy in this area:

Should Scotland have the power to decide when it wants to have a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom?

No. Next question

Sorry this is Cosa Nostra, no pollster really cares what flint knappers on the Camden-Primrose Hill border think about this.

Well, given that I have a vote in the Westminster Parliament, and it is that Parliament which decides when our Scottish colony gets a vote on Indy, or not, that’s pretty tough shit for you Scotch. But such is life

I'm afraid that interpretation still renders your opinion relatively uninteresting to pollsters. Bottler with vestigial connection to Scotland backs Bottler enforcing non consenting Union to avoid losing the national construct that gets him hard of a morning.
Quelle surprise.

MaxPB

Benpointer said:

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.

I thought you were singing its praises and planning to escape to there not so long ago?

That was when the government were dithering on ending legal restrictions. Thankfully Rishi and the other sensible Cabinet members overruled the scientists.

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DougSeal said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think my father should take all the credit for this.

Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

Well done TSE Senior!

He is said it is just like the MMR jab, some people just need a bit of reassurance.

If we do end up jabbing kids then the government needs to be ahead of the game on that as well.

Its a good job GB News wasn't on air when the oldies got jabbed....wall to wall antivaxxer propaganda on there.

I know, that channel needs shutting down for being a threat to public health.

Given their target demographic is right leaning more Brexity, that is much older skewed....who have pretty much all gone and got jabbed as soon as it was available....and yet their output is skewed antivaxxer.

Not even sensible from a business perspective. Bit like Fox News approach, lets kill off all our audience.

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DougSeal said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think my father should take all the credit for this.

Vaccination rates in Asian communities have now caught up with white groups but half of black people in England are yet to have a jab, analysis by The Times shows.

People from ethnic minorities have long been more hesitant about vaccination but the NHS has been working with local groups in the hope of closing a gap in vaccination rates.

This appears to have been successful for Asian communities but less so for black populations....

...Analysis of NHS England data suggests that 61 per cent of “white British” people, including adults and children, have had at least one jab.

At the end of March, the gap between this group and Asian communities was ten percentage points, with whites being a third more likely to have had a jab. The difference has all but disappeared, with 59 per cent of Asian or Asian British people now having had a jab after a big surge in uptake. Three million doses have been given to this group since February — far more than other minority groups.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asian-groups-close-vaccination-gap-bqcb2stvp

But fair play to Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, they realised this was an issue a while back and took steps to try and deal with it and it has worked for Asian groups.

Well done TSE Senior!

He is said it is just like the MMR jab, some people just need a bit of reassurance.

If we do end up jabbing kids then the government needs to be ahead of the game on that as well.

Its a good job GB News wasn't on air when the oldies got jabbed....wall to wall antivaxxer propaganda on there.

I know, that channel needs shutting down for being a threat to public health.

Given their target demographic is right leaning more Brexity, that is much older skewed....who have pretty much all gone and got jabbed as soon as it was available....and yet their output is skewed antivaxxer.

Not even sensible from a business perspective. Bit like Fox News approach, lets kill off all our audience.

I'm surprised they haven't hired Piers Corbyn.

rcs1000

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.

I wasn’t talking about the EU, in fact I specifically chose a non-EU country.

My point is simply that @Leon is talking shit: it is much better to live in a prosperous, rule of law country, than a totalitarian one like Russia or China.

rcs1000

MaxPB said:

On the referendum just thinking back to the terrible remain campaign and Obama's ill judged "back of the queue" comment. Since then US policy wrt the EU looks a lot more like what Trump left behind than what Obama said would happen. We're now well past the point where Biden could have undone everything Trump put in place but he hasn't and the US is far, far more hostile towards the EU than it was under Obama and it has been conducting almost all of its foreign policy on a bilateral basis with the nations of the EU rather than via the EU.

It's not a huge deal and probably reflects America's first priority of securing it's primacy in Asia and the Pacific and the Brexit effect of the major diplomatic partner no longer being in it.

I just thought it was interesting how different the post-Brexit realpolitik is to what Obama and the remain campaign were hopecasting. The UK/US relationship is still far, far more important to the US and UK than either of their relationships with the EU. Both the UK and US are conducting foreign policy without involving the EU and this is being aided and abetted by Macron who sees an opportunity to put France's interests at the top of the table without interference from the other 26 nations.

It will be interesting to see how the next 10 years plays out as the UK and US increasingly put their focus on Asia and the Pacific and continue to sidestep the EU. It may force the Eurocrats into a corner and try and make a play for France's UN security council seat and a new treaty to take over all external foreign policy.

I think relations between European countries and the US are massively better than under Trump.

DougSeal

rcs1000 said:

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.

I wasn’t talking about the EU, in fact I specifically chose a non-EU country.

My point is simply that @Leon is talking shit: it is much better to live in a prosperous, rule of law country, than a totalitarian one like Russia or China.

England’s ideal future outside the EU is a kind of Switzerland with other bits on top of financial services supporting it.

bigjohnowls

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

geoffw said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

SecurityCouncil: France, not Japan

France should be banned from hosting the Olympics if they are going to be behave like this....

BREAKING: The Gold medal for biggest d*ckhead of the Tokyo Olympics goes to French marathon runner Morhad Amdouni who deliberately knocks over all the water for his fellow competitors…Unbelievable! https://t.co/D4IwmlAHlL

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1424305458320392201?s=19

Looking forward to Paris 2024 tbh...

I am sure the French will put on a brilliant show with real panache. And only 3 years to wait!

Less than that only 1.083 days to go

FrancisUrquhart

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!

Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.

Fake News...not this Olympics....new funding round is when the new focus starts.

How's your Team GB althletics medal projection looking? ;-)

Well i did say we would struggle to win any golds (check) and I thought individuals there was outside chances for few medals...i said DAS, Gemili, KJT and Muir, were our main medal hopes, 3 of which got injuried, but luckily got replaced with some others.

Individuals it was 2 silver, 2 bronzes wasn't it? Team GB weren't really competitive in most events. The surprise was two middle distance events.

Leon

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!

My prediction was pathetically pessimistic and wrong. Yay!

I was very close with my China edging America prediction, however....

Theuniondivvie

More ar brave lads news.

https://twitter.com/BrexitClock/status/1424341636130164737?s=20

williamglenn

rcs1000 said:

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.

I wasn’t talking about the EU, in fact I specifically chose a non-EU country.

My point is simply that @Leon is talking shit: it is much better to live in a prosperous, rule of law country, than a totalitarian one like Russia or China.

"It's much better to profit from Russian money than to be Russian."

tlg86

Here is the alternative Olympic medal table. It's ranked by number of sports in which countries win medals (so the medals don't sum to the total). The diff column shows the change in the ranking relative to the position in the official table.

Rank, Diff, Team, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Total
1. (0), United States, 14, 14, 14, 25
2. (0), China, 13, 13, 10, 19
3. (0), Japan, 11, 13, 13, 20
4. (+1), ROC, 10, 13, 10, 18
5. (-1), Great Britain, 9, 11, 15, 18
6. (+3), Germany, 7, 9, 8, 14
7. (+1), France, 7, 8, 8, 16
8. (+4), Brazil, 7, 4, 5, 12
9. (+1), Italy, 6, 7, 11, 16
10. (-4), Australia, 6, 5, 11, 15
11. (0), Canada, 6, 4, 7, 10
12. (-5), Netherlands, 5, 5, 7, 10
13. (+2), Hungary, 4, 5, 6, 9
14. (+4), Czech Republic, 4, 4, 3, 6
15. (+7), Spain, 3, 6, 5, 13
16. (-3), New Zealand, 3, 4, 6, 11
16. (0), South Korea, 3, 4, 6, 8
18. (-4), Cuba, 3, 3, 4, 7
19. (+6), Denmark, 3, 3, 3, 8
20. (+6), Croatia, 3, 3, 2, 5
21. (+3), Switzerland, 3, 2, 4, 5
22. (-2), Norway, 3, 2, 2, 6
23. (+4), Iran, 3, 2, 1, 4
24. (+4), Serbia, 3, 1, 5, 7
25. (+4), Belgium, 3, 1, 3, 6
26. (+4), Bulgaria, 3, 1, 1, 5
26. (+5), Slovenia, 3, 1, 1, 4
28. (+4), Uzbekistan, 3, 0, 2, 5
29. (-6), Sweden, 2, 5, 0, 5
30. (+4), Chinese Taipei, 2, 4, 6, 10
31. (+4), Turkey, 2, 2, 4, 6
32. (+1), Georgia, 2, 2, 1, 3
33. (+3), Greece, 2, 1, 1, 4
34. (+4), Ecuador, 2, 1, 0, 2
35. (+4), Ireland, 2, 0, 2, 2
36. (+5), Qatar, 2, 0, 1, 3
37. (+7), Ukraine, 1, 6, 10, 12
38. (-21), Poland, 1, 4, 3, 5
39. (+9), India, 1, 2, 4, 6
40. (+5), Belarus, 1, 2, 3, 4
41. (+9), Slovakia, 1, 2, 1, 3
42. (+4), Romania, 1, 2, 0, 2
42. (+4), Venezuela, 1, 2, 0, 3
42. (+10), South Africa, 1, 2, 0, 2
45. (+8), Austria, 1, 1, 5, 6
46. (+3), Hong Kong, 1, 1, 3, 5
46. (+8), Egypt, 1, 1, 3, 4
48. (+7), Indonesia, 1, 1, 2, 2
48. (+8), Portugal, 1, 1, 2, 3
50. (-31), Kenya, 1, 1, 1, 1
50. (-29), Jamaica, 1, 1, 1, 1
50. (-14), Uganda, 1, 1, 1, 1
50. (0), Philippines, 1, 1, 1, 2
50. (+6), Ethiopia, 1, 1, 1, 1
55. (+3), Tunisia, 1, 1, 0, 2
56. (-17), Israel, 1, 0, 2, 3
57. (+2), Estonia, 1, 0, 1, 1
57. (+2), Fiji, 1, 0, 1, 1
57. (+2), Latvia, 1, 0, 1, 2
57. (+2), Thailand, 1, 0, 1, 2
61. (-19), Bahamas, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (-19), Kosovo, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (+2), Bermuda, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (+2), Morocco, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (+2), Puerto Rico, 1, 0, 0, 1

kle4

TheScreamingEagles said:

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

How long can you wait?

FrancisUrquhart

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

Wait. Great Britain didn't come 9th after all then? Shocked, I am!

Thank Allah Team GB went woke for these Olympics.

Fake News...not this Olympics....new funding round is when the new focus starts.

How's your Team GB althletics medal projection looking? ;-)

Well i did say we would struggle to win any golds (check) and I thought individuals there was outside chances for few medals...i said DAS, Gemili, KJT and Muir, were our main medal hopes, 3 of which got injuried, but luckily got replaced with some others.

Individuals it was 2 silver, 2 bronzes wasn't it? Team GB weren't really competitive in most events. The surprise was two middle distance events.

The 2 sprint relay medals papered over the fact that totally uncompetitive in all individual sprint events, 100, 200, 400, the hurdles. Also totally uncompetitive at distance events. No where in long jump, high jump, triple jump, javilin, shot put...just the mens hammer and womens pole vault of the field events.

It wasn't even like the rowing with all those 4th places. In most athletic events Team GB just aren't even close to medals.

bigjohnowls

Wonder what was the best price the draw got to in the Test?

I got 4/1 at 7.35 this morning when the rain woke me up.

I live 26 miles from Trent Bridge

TheScreamingEagles

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

A thread on Scottish independence and the AV referendum.

You can thank me later.

How long can you wait?

A long time.

DavidL

Are referendums not a bit like democracy: the worst way to resolve things apart from all the others?

What we have seen all too painfully in Scotland, and indeed in the UK in respect of Brexit, is that they are divisive, disruptive and change very few minds but so does a situation where there is a very substantial minority who want something but cannot get it through Westminster either because they don't stand in enough seats or because there is a cosy metropolitan consensus shared by all the major parties.

My view, FWIW, is that those wanting a referendum won a very, very narrow majority of the vote in Scotland at the last election. I think that entitles them to at least ask the question.