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Getting into a culture war with the RNLI looks pretty dumb – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited July 29 in General
Getting into a culture war with the RNLI looks pretty dumb – politicalbetting.com

Of all the institutions in the UK to get into a fight with then the RNLI is surely the one ministers would be best advised to keep well away from.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,974
    Test
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,743
    Sounds like the RNLI needs a good footballer.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 29
    The assault on the RNLI is appalling and bringing out the very worst of the Alf Garnett Brexiteers.

    Meanwhile, there's a brilliant, blistering, attack on the Conservatives by Alister Heath in today's Daily Telegraph.

    All pb tories should read this:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/28/rudderless-labour-lite-tories-face-autumn-political-carnage/

    Yes, it's behind a paywall but they're offering 3 months for £1 at which point you can just cancel.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,382
    @Cocky_cockney

    Pasting the article is a seriously bad idea.
    I suggest you contact administrators and ask them to delete your breach of copyright.
    Deep pockets may otherwise be required.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    philiph said:

    @Cocky_cockney

    Pasting the article is a seriously bad idea.
    .

    Relax

    They allow half a dozen free articles anyway. The publicity for their subscription trial will probably make them more than happy.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,382

    philiph said:

    @Cocky_cockney

    Pasting the article is a seriously bad idea.
    .

    Relax

    They allow half a dozen free articles anyway. The publicity for their subscription trial will probably make them more than happy.
    In your dreams.

    It is not in your gift to make that assumption. And it is wrong.
    Free articles require a sign up.

    Breach of copyright is black and white. Your personal introduction of your interpretation is wrong and dangerous to the site owner.

    You have no right to knowingly put him in jeopardy.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    philiph said:

    philiph said:

    @Cocky_cockney

    Pasting the article is a seriously bad idea.
    .

    Relax

    They allow half a dozen free articles anyway. The publicity for their subscription trial will probably make them more than happy.
    In your dreams.
    Lol.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,607
    philiph said:

    philiph said:

    @Cocky_cockney

    Pasting the article is a seriously bad idea.
    .

    Relax

    They allow half a dozen free articles anyway. The publicity for their subscription trial will probably make them more than happy.
    In your dreams.

    It is not in your gift to make that assumption. And it is wrong.
    Free articles require a sign up.

    Breach of copyright is black and white. Your personal introduction of your interpretation is wrong and dangerous to the site owner.

    You have no right to knowingly put him in jeopardy.
    Quite right, and for BTL purposes a link and perhaps a key paragraph are all that is needed.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    Lots of coverage across the newspapers today about whether the 3rd wave and, with it, covid is over for the UK. Bizarrely, Sky News and the Daily Mail use yesterday's data to headline exactly the opposite. Sky report cases rising for the first time, the Mail claim it's the 8th day in a row of falls. The reason the Mail can claim this is, I think, that they're using the rolling 7 day average but that's still a piece of chicanery.

    There's another piece in today's Telegraph suggesting we may now be at, or very close to, the holy grail of herd immunity. The suggestion is that the Euros may have helped speed up that process. The argument relies on a combination of vaccination and antibodies from infection. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/28/britain-may-finally-nearing-holy-grail-herd-immunity/

    I remain cautious about this idea. Even when the current cohort of single jabbed have received their second doses, there will still be 1/3rd of the UK population un-vaccinated. I continue to have concerns (following the World Health Organisation) that we may be creating the perfect breeding grounds for the virus, including mutations. We need to press on with vaccinating younger groups, including under-18's.

  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 29
    Foxy said:

    philiph said:

    philiph said:

    @Cocky_cockney

    Pasting the article is a seriously bad idea.
    .

    Relax

    They allow half a dozen free articles anyway. The publicity for their subscription trial will probably make them more than happy.
    In your dreams.

    It is not in your gift to make that assumption. And it is wrong.
    Free articles require a sign up.

    Breach of copyright is black and white. Your personal introduction of your interpretation is wrong and dangerous to the site owner.

    You have no right to knowingly put him in jeopardy.
    BTL
    What the hell is BTL?

    Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato re-stacked?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,743
    edited July 29

    Lots of coverage across the newspapers today about whether the 3rd wave and, with it, covid is over for the UK. Bizarrely, Sky News and the Daily Mail use yesterday's data to headline exactly the opposite. Sky report cases rising for the first time, the Mail claim it's the 8th day in a row of falls. The reason the Mail can claim this is, I think, that they're using the rolling 7 day average but that's still a piece of chicanery.

    There's another piece in today's Telegraph suggesting we may now be at, or very close to, the holy grail of herd immunity. The suggestion is that the Euros may have helped speed up that process. The argument relies on a combination of vaccination and antibodies from infection. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/28/britain-may-finally-nearing-holy-grail-herd-immunity/

    I remain cautious about this idea. Even when the current cohort of single jabbed have received their second doses, there will still be 1/3rd of the UK population un-vaccinated. I continue to have concerns (following the World Health Organisation) that we may be creating the perfect breeding grounds for the virus, including mutations. We need to press on with vaccinating younger groups, including under-18's.

    The Telegraph also reports 538's Nate Silver's complaints about Professor Neil Ferguson's apparent confidence as his model swings like a pendulum.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/28/many-variables-neil-ferguson-making-covid-claims-confidently/
    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1420341425452027905
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,607
    edited July 29

    Foxy said:

    philiph said:

    philiph said:

    @Cocky_cockney

    Pasting the article is a seriously bad idea.
    .

    Relax

    They allow half a dozen free articles anyway. The publicity for their subscription trial will probably make them more than happy.
    In your dreams.

    It is not in your gift to make that assumption. And it is wrong.
    Free articles require a sign up.

    Breach of copyright is black and white. Your personal introduction of your interpretation is wrong and dangerous to the site owner.

    You have no right to knowingly put him in jeopardy.
    BTL
    What the hell is BTL?

    Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato re-stacked?
    Below The Line = comments under articles.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    philiph said:

    philiph said:

    @Cocky_cockney

    Pasting the article is a seriously bad idea.
    .

    Relax

    They allow half a dozen free articles anyway. The publicity for their subscription trial will probably make them more than happy.
    In your dreams.

    It is not in your gift to make that assumption. And it is wrong.
    Free articles require a sign up.

    Breach of copyright is black and white. Your personal introduction of your interpretation is wrong and dangerous to the site owner.

    You have no right to knowingly put him in jeopardy.
    BTL
    What the hell is BTL?

    Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato re-stacked?
    Below The Line = comments under articles.
    Ah!
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    As a general point I've noticed a marked increase in hypervigilism. I see it in myself but it's also noticeable online as well as in the real world.

    Hypervigilance is a state of increased alertness. If you’re in a state of hypervigilance, you’re extremely sensitive to your surroundings. It can make you feel like you’re alert to any hidden dangers, whether from other people or the environment. Often, though, these dangers are not real.

    It's one of the untold damages of this pandemic and something which can cause a raft of associated health issues.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,263
    At the risk of falling into a logical black hole I've just invented a word.
    It is "categorismus" to describe the process of making something seem real by putting a name to it.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,382

    As a general point I've noticed a marked increase in hypervigilism. I see it in myself but it's also noticeable online as well as in the real world.

    Hypervigilance is a state of increased alertness. If you’re in a state of hypervigilance, you’re extremely sensitive to your surroundings. It can make you feel like you’re alert to any hidden dangers, whether from other people or the environment. Often, though, these dangers are not real.

    It's one of the untold damages of this pandemic and something which can cause a raft of associated health issues.

    I think you mean hyperplagerism

    Have you contacted site adim yet?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,315
    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,915

    promoting electric cars properly

    What the fuck does this even mean in a Telegraph context? Use them to run over refugees?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,915
    philiph said:

    As a general point I've noticed a marked increase in hypervigilism. I see it in myself but it's also noticeable online as well as in the real world.

    Hypervigilance is a state of increased alertness. If you’re in a state of hypervigilance, you’re extremely sensitive to your surroundings. It can make you feel like you’re alert to any hidden dangers, whether from other people or the environment. Often, though, these dangers are not real.

    It's one of the untold damages of this pandemic and something which can cause a raft of associated health issues.

    I think you mean hyperplagerism

    Have you contacted site adim yet?
    Please sir! Please sir! Cockey_cockney is breaching copyright. I told him not to and said you wouldn't like it.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,382
    Dura_Ace said:

    philiph said:

    As a general point I've noticed a marked increase in hypervigilism. I see it in myself but it's also noticeable online as well as in the real world.

    Hypervigilance is a state of increased alertness. If you’re in a state of hypervigilance, you’re extremely sensitive to your surroundings. It can make you feel like you’re alert to any hidden dangers, whether from other people or the environment. Often, though, these dangers are not real.

    It's one of the untold damages of this pandemic and something which can cause a raft of associated health issues.

    I think you mean hyperplagerism

    Have you contacted site adim yet?
    Please sir! Please sir! Cockey_cockney is breaching copyright. I told him not to and said you wouldn't like it.
    Who is Cockey_cockney?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    Another morning of loony comments by CC. Toodle pip...
  • MalcolmDunnMalcolmDunn Posts: 57
    A much biggerr story than the RNLI which so far has received little coverage is the failure to deal with illegal immigration. Unless Priti Patel can deal with this she's finished.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 903
    Olympics Covid latest: entire Australian track & field team in isolation and awaiting test results. Would appear to be consequence of one member being a close contact of the American pole vault world champion Sam Kendricks, who was ruled out by a positive test earlier today.

    The athletics programme starts tomorrow. Oh dear.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,062
    Around a third of white tailed deer in the US seem to have antibodies to SARS-CoV-2. This thing is good at getting around.
    https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/newsroom/stakeholder-info/stakeholder-messages/wildlife-damage-news/deer-sars
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,932

    A much biggerr story than the RNLI which so far has received little coverage is the failure to deal with illegal immigration. Unless Priti Patel can deal with this she's finished.

    What’s your proposed solution?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,241
    pigeon said:

    Olympics Covid latest: entire Australian track & field team in isolation and awaiting test results. Would appear to be consequence of one member being a close contact of the American pole vault world champion Sam Kendricks, who was ruled out by a positive test earlier today.

    The athletics programme starts tomorrow. Oh dear.

    British media: DOES THIS INCREASE TEAM GB MEDAL CHANCES?!!!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,231

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    In her head she has. Incredibly.

    A member of my extended family is a lifeboat crew member in another country; his father describes the situation as 'his alarm goes and he's off out. Immediately!"

    Yes, lifeboatmen do meet idiots who should never have gone to sea. That doesn't mean they should be left to drown.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097
    Off-topic, that Telegraph article was hilarious. I know that if you are a proper Tory the Johnson Clown Circus is appalling, but if as suggested all the popular policies are ditched and replaced with what sounded more like Redwoodism, then the votes go with it.

    Yes, there is little point being in government if your sole purpose is to be in government, but surely the hack who wrote this would prefer a change at the top and some competence at least as much as a change at the top and the reincarnation of Peter Lilley and his list of undesirables.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,932

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    Where’s your evidence?

    The legislation is poorly drafted if there is uncertainty. It has not been through the revision process yet. The government has been completely clear that it is not their intention to criminalise the RNLI

    And yet you keep stating it’s because Priti Patel is an evil grotesque racist.

    Evidence?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,989

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    In her head she has. Incredibly.

    A member of my extended family is a lifeboat crew member in another country; his father describes the situation as 'his alarm goes and he's off out. Immediately!"

    Yes, lifeboatmen do meet idiots who should never have gone to sea. That doesn't mean they should be left to drown.
    I know a couple of people who do mountain rescue. They’re forever risking their own lives, to pick up people dressed in shorts, t-shirts and flip-flops with severe hypothermia, or who went for a walk and got completely lost as weather closed in. Idiots the lot of them, but still humans.

    The only way the boat crossings stop, is if the demand goes away. It’s clear that the French government doesn’t care, and is turning a blind eye to people eager to leave France to live in a safe country. We need to take the Denmark route, of facilitating settlement in a safe third country, and let it be known that anyone arriving by boat from France will be resettled elsewhere.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,297
    Toms said:

    At the risk of falling into a logical black hole I've just invented a word.
    It is "categorismus" to describe the process of making something seem real by putting a name to it.

    Eg. “the British Isles”.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,554
    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,315

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    In her head she has. Incredibly.

    A member of my extended family is a lifeboat crew member in another country; his father describes the situation as 'his alarm goes and he's off out. Immediately!"

    Yes, lifeboatmen do meet idiots who should never have gone to sea. That doesn't mean they should be left to drown.
    Absolutely correct

    My son has his call monitor with him 24/7
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,231
    IanB2 said:

    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.

    I'm trying to get my head around the research process!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    Toms said:

    At the risk of falling into a logical black hole I've just invented a word.
    It is "categorismus" to describe the process of making something seem real by putting a name to it.

    Eg. “the British Isles”.
    “Scotland”
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,554
    Nigelb said:

    Around a third of white tailed deer in the US seem to have antibodies to SARS-CoV-2. This thing is good at getting around.
    https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/newsroom/stakeholder-info/stakeholder-messages/wildlife-damage-news/deer-sars

    My dog keeps sneezing the last 24 hours; is this bad?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,297
    Dura_Ace said:

    promoting electric cars properly

    What the fuck does this even mean in a Telegraph context? Use them to run over refugees?
    Indeed. The author rails against the Tory planned economy, but then pontificates that the Tories are not planning part of the economy enough: the market in electric cars.

    So, is planning good or bad? The author doesn’t know.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,554

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.

    I'm trying to get my head around the research process!
    I fear the new masks are going to be less popular than the facial ones?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,315

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,016
    Foxy said:

    philiph said:

    philiph said:

    @Cocky_cockney

    Pasting the article is a seriously bad idea.
    .

    Relax

    They allow half a dozen free articles anyway. The publicity for their subscription trial will probably make them more than happy.
    In your dreams.

    It is not in your gift to make that assumption. And it is wrong.
    Free articles require a sign up.

    Breach of copyright is black and white. Your personal introduction of your interpretation is wrong and dangerous to the site owner.

    You have no right to knowingly put him in jeopardy.
    Quite right, and for BTL purposes a link and perhaps a key paragraph are all that is needed.
    It's not as though its an interesting or thought provoking article - starting off with Heath blaming the government for something that is Westminster Council's responsibility and going downhill from there.....

    Latest line from the Covidiots:

    More and more reports from the frontline in the US that delta affects children more severely, with more needing hospitalisation and ICU care. We need to be very careful about letting this virus spread among the young. And we must protect our adolescents with vaccines.

    https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1420622608257662985?s=20
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,297

    pigeon said:

    Olympics Covid latest: entire Australian track & field team in isolation and awaiting test results. Would appear to be consequence of one member being a close contact of the American pole vault world champion Sam Kendricks, who was ruled out by a positive test earlier today.

    The athletics programme starts tomorrow. Oh dear.

    British media: DOES THIS INCREASE TEAM GB MEDAL CHANCES?!!!
    That about sums it up. Their interest in sport is close to zero. This is all about politics. Makes you wonder what they are afraid of. Not.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,231
    Sandpit said:

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    In her head she has. Incredibly.

    A member of my extended family is a lifeboat crew member in another country; his father describes the situation as 'his alarm goes and he's off out. Immediately!"

    Yes, lifeboatmen do meet idiots who should never have gone to sea. That doesn't mean they should be left to drown.
    I know a couple of people who do mountain rescue. They’re forever risking their own lives, to pick up people dressed in shorts, t-shirts and flip-flops with severe hypothermia, or who went for a walk and got completely lost as weather closed in. Idiots the lot of them, but still humans.

    The only way the boat crossings stop, is if the demand goes away. It’s clear that the French government doesn’t care, and is turning a blind eye to people eager to leave France to live in a safe country. We need to take the Denmark route, of facilitating settlement in a safe third country, and let it be known that anyone arriving by boat from France will be resettled elsewhere.
    Yes, got a (former, too old now) mountain rescuer in the EF, too. And a couple of surf rescuers down in Cornwall. Admirable people, those who do that.

    Is Denmark getting a reduction in asylum seekers? Or do they get processed more quickly than here? In any event, apparently treated more humanely than appears to be the case in UK?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,297
    DougSeal said:

    Toms said:

    At the risk of falling into a logical black hole I've just invented a word.
    It is "categorismus" to describe the process of making something seem real by putting a name to it.

    Eg. “the British Isles”.
    “Scotland”
    Yes Jim, we feel the love.

    image
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097
    Charles said:

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    Where’s your evidence?

    The legislation is poorly drafted if there is uncertainty. It has not been through the revision process yet. The government has been completely clear that it is not their intention to criminalise the RNLI

    And yet you keep stating it’s because Priti Patel is an evil grotesque racist.

    Evidence?
    Its my opinion. If the only things we were allowed to post on here were facts then it wouldn't be much fun. As for Patel, I don't she is an evil grotesque racist, those are your words. I think she is a traitor to her country - sacked for having her own private foreign policy. I think that she is a hypocrite - advocating an immigration policy to stop the next generation of Patels and Javids from being in the UK. I think she is explicitly playing the race card on behalf of the racist element of the Tory vote - this bill. And I think she is stupid - a real terms cut in police pay now is a battle she can only lose.

    I know that you are bit of a political Janus. Officially Not A Tory but considered a man of both influence and reputation within the highest ranks of the Tory Party. So you want to defend your friends. Fine. It is your opinion that your friends would never do such a horrible thing. It is my opinion that they have. You have no evidence either old love, so wind it in.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Indeed, and we never questioned that. Only that the bill seeks to criminalise them doing their job.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,607
    edited July 29

    pigeon said:

    Olympics Covid latest: entire Australian track & field team in isolation and awaiting test results. Would appear to be consequence of one member being a close contact of the American pole vault world champion Sam Kendricks, who was ruled out by a positive test earlier today.

    The athletics programme starts tomorrow. Oh dear.

    British media: DOES THIS INCREASE TEAM GB MEDAL CHANCES?!!!
    I remember being in NZ for the Commonwealth games in 1990. The coverage was spectacularly local, but all countries do that.

    "Now we go to the finals of the 100m and an interview with the 7th place NZ runner..."

    Not to be beaten by the Leicester Mercury who once led with the headline:

    "Bali bombing death toll reaches 200, Leicester family's holiday ruined"

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,834
    philiph said:

    philiph said:

    @Cocky_cockney

    Pasting the article is a seriously bad idea.
    .

    Relax

    They allow half a dozen free articles anyway. The publicity for their subscription trial will probably make them more than happy.
    In your dreams.

    It is not in your gift to make that assumption. And it is wrong.
    Free articles require a sign up.

    Breach of copyright is black and white. Your personal introduction of your interpretation is wrong and dangerous to the site owner.

    You have no right to knowingly put him in jeopardy.
    Put him in jeopardy knowingly.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097
    Sandpit said:

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    In her head she has. Incredibly.

    A member of my extended family is a lifeboat crew member in another country; his father describes the situation as 'his alarm goes and he's off out. Immediately!"

    Yes, lifeboatmen do meet idiots who should never have gone to sea. That doesn't mean they should be left to drown.
    I know a couple of people who do mountain rescue. They’re forever risking their own lives, to pick up people dressed in shorts, t-shirts and flip-flops with severe hypothermia, or who went for a walk and got completely lost as weather closed in. Idiots the lot of them, but still humans.

    The only way the boat crossings stop, is if the demand goes away. It’s clear that the French government doesn’t care, and is turning a blind eye to people eager to leave France to live in a safe country. We need to take the Denmark route, of facilitating settlement in a safe third country, and let it be known that anyone arriving by boat from France will be resettled elsewhere.
    As the "lets deport the forrin to Madagascar" proposal isn't realistic, we need to look at what is. Europe faces a massive refugee problem because of the burning mess on its borders. One way to stop the flow is to fix these problems. If Afghanistan, Libya, Syria were safe and functioning then less migrants need to flee.

    As that isn't very realistic then plan B - share the burden. Refugees can be distributed out amongst safe countries by agreement. But as its Britain Uber Alles these days we will enter no such agreement. Not that we need to considering we only get a small number of refugees anyway.

    Then we have Plan C. Make it so awful for refugees that the word gets to them not to come. Hence the "Drown the Migrants" bill.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,315
    edited July 29

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Indeed, and we never questioned that. Only that the bill seeks to criminalise them doing their job.
    I would disagree with your ascertain the bill 'seeks to criminalise the RNLI' rather than it is poorly drafted

    As has previously been mentioned over the last few weeks, this anomaly will be addressed as the bill progresses through the HOC
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097

    DougSeal said:

    Toms said:

    At the risk of falling into a logical black hole I've just invented a word.
    It is "categorismus" to describe the process of making something seem real by putting a name to it.

    Eg. “the British Isles”.
    “Scotland”
    Yes Jim, we feel the love.

    image
    What I do find amusing about your love-in for Jim Murphy is that you keep reposting this photo of him in the referendum campaign suggesting that he was a negative influence.

    And yet No won...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    DougSeal said:

    Toms said:

    At the risk of falling into a logical black hole I've just invented a word.
    It is "categorismus" to describe the process of making something seem real by putting a name to it.

    Eg. “the British Isles”.
    “Scotland”
    Yes Jim, we feel the love.

    image
    I could have inserted the name of any country of course but your inbuilt grievance is very easy to get a rise out of. Relax, spend some time with family, life isn’t so bad.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    pigeon said:

    Olympics Covid latest: entire Australian track & field team in isolation and awaiting test results. Would appear to be consequence of one member being a close contact of the American pole vault world champion Sam Kendricks, who was ruled out by a positive test earlier today.

    The athletics programme starts tomorrow. Oh dear.

    British media: DOES THIS INCREASE TEAM GB MEDAL CHANCES?!!!
    That about sums it up. Their interest in sport is close to zero. This is all about politics. Makes you wonder what they are afraid of. Not.
    Enlighten us. What are the British media so afraid of?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,989

    Sandpit said:

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    In her head she has. Incredibly.

    A member of my extended family is a lifeboat crew member in another country; his father describes the situation as 'his alarm goes and he's off out. Immediately!"

    Yes, lifeboatmen do meet idiots who should never have gone to sea. That doesn't mean they should be left to drown.
    I know a couple of people who do mountain rescue. They’re forever risking their own lives, to pick up people dressed in shorts, t-shirts and flip-flops with severe hypothermia, or who went for a walk and got completely lost as weather closed in. Idiots the lot of them, but still humans.

    The only way the boat crossings stop, is if the demand goes away. It’s clear that the French government doesn’t care, and is turning a blind eye to people eager to leave France to live in a safe country. We need to take the Denmark route, of facilitating settlement in a safe third country, and let it be known that anyone arriving by boat from France will be resettled elsewhere.
    Yes, got a (former, too old now) mountain rescuer in the EF, too. And a couple of surf rescuers down in Cornwall. Admirable people, those who do that.

    Is Denmark getting a reduction in asylum seekers? Or do they get processed more quickly than here? In any event, apparently treated more humanely than appears to be the case in UK?
    What Denmark are doing is opening a migrant processing centre, likely to be in Rwanda. Anyone arriving in Denmark and claiming asylum is sent there, and if their application is successful they’re allowed to settle in Rwanda, with the Danish government paying the Rwandan government for each settled migrant. No-one arriving in Denmark by boat and claiming asylum, will be allowed to resettle in Denmark.

    Trying to find a link that isn’t screaming about the system one way or the other is difficult, this most impartial one I can quickly find.
    https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/28/migrants-who-want-to-come-to-uk-may-be-sent-to-processing-centres-in-africa-14836904/
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,834

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Indeed, and we never questioned that. Only that the bill seeks to criminalise them doing their job.
    Do you have a copy of the bill? The article and the discussion seems very incomplete without it.

    Personally, I think there's a very good solution - simply criminalise the act of bringing these assylum seekers into the UK. The RNLI has a moral duty to rescue anyone in peril, but they could just as easily deposit them in France.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,817
    edited July 29
    IanB2 said:

    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.

    Fine to ask the question.

    Not fine to act without an evidence base.

    Though one suspects that most of the farting here is from the Carry On Journalists.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    pigeon said:

    Olympics Covid latest: entire Australian track & field team in isolation and awaiting test results. Would appear to be consequence of one member being a close contact of the American pole vault world champion Sam Kendricks, who was ruled out by a positive test earlier today.

    The athletics programme starts tomorrow. Oh dear.

    British media: DOES THIS INCREASE TEAM GB MEDAL CHANCES?!!!
    You got a link to that?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,915
    It looks like Ben "Swain" Wallace was regretting his decision to get taken to the Carrie Antoinette National Flegship presentation by the bombfrogs in a RIB.


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,231

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Indeed, and we never questioned that. Only that the bill seeks to criminalise them doing their job.
    I would disagree with your ascertain the bill 'seeks to criminalise the RNLI' rather than it is poorly drafted

    As has previously been mentioned over the last few weeks, this anomaly will be addressed as the bill progresses through the HOC
    I wish I shared your confidence.

    However, conversely I've seen a letter from Ms Patel, on the Electoral ID Bill, in which she says, inter alia, that
    "The list of approved photographic identification will not be limited to passports and driving licences. A broad range of documents will be accepted, including, for example, various concessionary travel passes, Proof of Age Standards Scheme (PASS) cards and photocard parking permits issued as part of the Blue Badge scheme......
    In addition, expired photographic ID will be accepted as long as the photograph is of a good enough likeness to allow polling station staff to confirm the identity of the holder."

    I think the last sentence in particular is less 'illiberal' than we were led to expect by some at least on here.

    Still don't like the basic idea. Not when nothing is being done about postal voting.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,297
    IanB2 said:

    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.

    So UK government ministers want to stop people farting in toilets.

    Viz could get a few “Bottom Inspectors” scripts out of that.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,801

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    It isn't usual to write Father like that unless you are referring to the Almighty. Of course there's no knowing who is who on the internet.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Indeed, and we never questioned that. Only that the bill seeks to criminalise them doing their job.
    Do you have a copy of the bill? The article and the discussion seems very incomplete without it.

    Personally, I think there's a very good solution - simply criminalise the act of bringing these assylum seekers into the UK. The RNLI has a moral duty to rescue anyone in peril, but they could just as easily deposit them in France.
    The bill is available online. Can we review your proposed solution to get rid of the forrin - "deposit them in France". How does that work? What jurisdiction does a British lifeboat have in French waters? Under what powers do you have the RNLI sailing up to the dock in France and turfing them off? When the French Navy start enforcing their territory?

    If they are in our waters they are our responsibility. We used to believe in basic human decency - this bill would make the Kinder transport rescuing Jewish children from the Nazis illegal. How about we offer refugees a fair chance. Put the money into processing them quickly. Deport quickly the false ones, welcome quickly the genuine ones.

    For years our treatment of Asylum Seekers has fuelled the problem - they can't work legally, they can't survive on the pittance handed out in vouchers so of course they go into the black economy. Change that, remove the black economy problem, process their claims quickly. If England doesn't want them we'll have them in Scotland.

  • eekeek Posts: 15,852
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.

    Fine to ask the question.

    Not fine to act without an evidence base.

    Though one suspects that most of the flatulence here is from the journos.
    I seem to remember that story from last week in the Telegraph and Mail.

    A quick google check brings up similar stories from April 2020 see https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/23/fact-check-no-evidence-passing-gas-spreads-covid-19/5152813002/ which highlight that there is little knowledge regarding flatulence and it's impact on spreading diseases.

    It's worth saying there won't be any as even in 2020 the general consensus was that large particles (such as Covid) could not be spread via air as the particles were too big to travel any distance beyond about 1m. Remember this science "fact" was based on a 1950/60s survey that was based on false assumptions but had been cited so often it was assumed to be accurate.

    So it may be true, however there will be no evidence one way or the other and I really don't want to be part of any trial.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,834

    pigeon said:

    Olympics Covid latest: entire Australian track & field team in isolation and awaiting test results. Would appear to be consequence of one member being a close contact of the American pole vault world champion Sam Kendricks, who was ruled out by a positive test earlier today.

    The athletics programme starts tomorrow. Oh dear.

    British media: DOES THIS INCREASE TEAM GB MEDAL CHANCES?!!!
    That about sums it up. Their interest in sport is close to zero. This is all about politics. Makes you wonder what they are afraid of. Not.
    Do tell.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,852

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Indeed, and we never questioned that. Only that the bill seeks to criminalise them doing their job.
    Do you have a copy of the bill? The article and the discussion seems very incomplete without it.

    Personally, I think there's a very good solution - simply criminalise the act of bringing these assylum seekers into the UK. The RNLI has a moral duty to rescue anyone in peril, but they could just as easily deposit them in France.
    Really? How does that work when they are rescued within UK waters?
  • eekeek Posts: 15,852

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Indeed, and we never questioned that. Only that the bill seeks to criminalise them doing their job.
    I would disagree with your ascertain the bill 'seeks to criminalise the RNLI' rather than it is poorly drafted

    As has previously been mentioned over the last few weeks, this anomaly will be addressed as the bill progresses through the HOC
    It's not poorly drafted because it's been weeks since the issue was highlighted and absolutely nothing has been done to say it's a mistake and will be redrafted.

    So I assume via the lack of apology and a lack of any promise to rewrite the law to provide a fix for the RNLI that the intention is to retain the law as is for dodgy reasons.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,297
    edited July 29

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Patel is not an instinctive Tory. She is a Revolutionary. They riddle the modern incarnation of the Conservative Party.

    If she was a Tory she would understand the special place charities like the RNLI hold in society. Most other states fund these rescue services through taxation, but not the UK. The RNLI must be one of the most British institutions around.

    What next for Patel? Legislating to hinder the monarch in her core duties?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    In her head she has. Incredibly.

    A member of my extended family is a lifeboat crew member in another country; his father describes the situation as 'his alarm goes and he's off out. Immediately!"

    Yes, lifeboatmen do meet idiots who should never have gone to sea. That doesn't mean they should be left to drown.
    I know a couple of people who do mountain rescue. They’re forever risking their own lives, to pick up people dressed in shorts, t-shirts and flip-flops with severe hypothermia, or who went for a walk and got completely lost as weather closed in. Idiots the lot of them, but still humans.

    The only way the boat crossings stop, is if the demand goes away. It’s clear that the French government doesn’t care, and is turning a blind eye to people eager to leave France to live in a safe country. We need to take the Denmark route, of facilitating settlement in a safe third country, and let it be known that anyone arriving by boat from France will be resettled elsewhere.
    Yes, got a (former, too old now) mountain rescuer in the EF, too. And a couple of surf rescuers down in Cornwall. Admirable people, those who do that.

    Is Denmark getting a reduction in asylum seekers? Or do they get processed more quickly than here? In any event, apparently treated more humanely than appears to be the case in UK?
    What Denmark are doing is opening a migrant processing centre, likely to be in Rwanda. Anyone arriving in Denmark and claiming asylum is sent there, and if their application is successful they’re allowed to settle in Rwanda, with the Danish government paying the Rwandan government for each settled migrant. No-one arriving in Denmark by boat and claiming asylum, will be allowed to resettle in Denmark.

    Trying to find a link that isn’t screaming about the system one way or the other is difficult, this most impartial one I can quickly find.
    https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/28/migrants-who-want-to-come-to-uk-may-be-sent-to-processing-centres-in-africa-14836904/
    Surely there is a simple step - take a breath, ignore the froth on either side, and think. Denmark has *proposed* such a thing. It doesn't exist yet hence "likely to be in Rwanda". The likelihood of a foreign government accepting someone else's migrants for cash seems so unlikely as to be absurd. "They're allowed to settle in Rwanda" - are they imprisoned there? Won't they just leave and head somewhere they want to settle?

    As for the idea that the Danes pay Rwanda for settled migrants, for how long? Imagine the headlines here "Your Taxpayers fund foreigners living abroad" - whatever agreement we managed to make with Madagascar would be torn up at the next budget review. "We negotiated and signed this deal, but we had no idea that it meant we had to keep paying".

    We know where "lets deport them somewhere else" came from. Its truly shameful that we have people advocating Nazi policies and yes that includes the idiots in the Danish government.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.

    So UK government ministers want to stop people farting in toilets.

    Viz could get a few “Bottom Inspectors” scripts out of that.
    The Bottom Inspectors! A truly sublime comic strip trip into totalitarianism and toilet humour...
  • eekeek Posts: 15,852
    edited July 29

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Indeed, and we never questioned that. Only that the bill seeks to criminalise them doing their job.
    I would disagree with your ascertain the bill 'seeks to criminalise the RNLI' rather than it is poorly drafted

    As has previously been mentioned over the last few weeks, this anomaly will be addressed as the bill progresses through the HOC
    I wish I shared your confidence.

    However, conversely I've seen a letter from Ms Patel, on the Electoral ID Bill, in which she says, inter alia, that
    "The list of approved photographic identification will not be limited to passports and driving licences. A broad range of documents will be accepted, including, for example, various concessionary travel passes, Proof of Age Standards Scheme (PASS) cards and photocard parking permits issued as part of the Blue Badge scheme......
    In addition, expired photographic ID will be accepted as long as the photograph is of a good enough likeness to allow polling station staff to confirm the identity of the holder."

    I think the last sentence in particular is less 'illiberal' than we were led to expect by some at least on here.

    Still don't like the basic idea. Not when nothing is being done about postal voting.
    Yep - the issue with voting ID is that its solving a problem that doesn't exist while ignoring postal voters where there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of actual abuse.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,932

    Charles said:

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    Where’s your evidence?

    The legislation is poorly drafted if there is uncertainty. It has not been through the revision process yet. The government has been completely clear that it is not their intention to criminalise the RNLI

    And yet you keep stating it’s because Priti Patel is an evil grotesque racist.

    Evidence?
    Its my opinion. If the only things we were allowed to post on here were facts then it wouldn't be much fun. As for Patel, I don't she is an evil grotesque racist, those are your words. I think she is a traitor to her country - sacked for having her own private foreign policy. I think that she is a hypocrite - advocating an immigration policy to stop the next generation of Patels and Javids from being in the UK. I think she is explicitly playing the race card on behalf of the racist element of the Tory vote - this bill. And I think she is stupid - a real terms cut in police pay now is a battle she can only lose.

    I know that you are bit of a political Janus. Officially Not A Tory but considered a man of both influence and reputation within the highest ranks of the Tory Party. So you want to defend your friends. Fine. It is your opinion that your friends would never do such a horrible thing. It is my opinion that they have. You have no evidence either old love, so wind it in.
    I never said I had influence or reputation in the Tory party. My reputation, such as it is, is the the healthcare sector
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,062
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Around a third of white tailed deer in the US seem to have antibodies to SARS-CoV-2. This thing is good at getting around.
    https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/newsroom/stakeholder-info/stakeholder-messages/wildlife-damage-news/deer-sars

    My dog keeps sneezing the last 24 hours; is this bad?
    Have you asked him ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,231
    DavidL said:

    Did we not discuss this recently on a thread by @Cyclefree ? The position, AIUI, is that the draft legislation removed the criteria that the offence of assisting illegal immigration had to be "for profit". The context was that there was apparently a practice of prosecuting those who steered the boat if they got a discount in their fare for doing so. The purpose of that nonsense is presumably to make it easier to deport the steerers.

    The question is what does this have to do with the RNLI? I think their concern is that if they pick people up in distress in the channel and bring them ashore they could now be caught by the legislation. The government is clear that this is rescue work, not "assisting illegal immigration". This is so obviously so that I am frankly a bit suspicious that the person or persons raising the alarm has another agenda.

    On a separate point I agree with those criticising @Cocky_cockney for copying and pasting the latest Heath drivel in its entirety. Mike has had letters from lawyers about this before and has been clear that we should not do it. It really should be removed.

    Re the last paragraph, I have been waiting for a comment from someone who really knew what they were posting about, as I was pretty sure that Mr CC had been a very silly chap indeed. It's good to have that opinion confirmed and I assume OGH or his son will do the necessary ASAP.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,501
    Just made a donation. If you’d like to too - and help save lives - please visit https://rnli.org/support-us/give-money/donate https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1420500685993480196/photo/1
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097
    DavidL said:

    Did we not discuss this recently on a thread by @Cyclefree ? The position, AIUI, is that the draft legislation removed the criteria that the offence of assisting illegal immigration had to be "for profit". The context was that there was apparently a practice of prosecuting those who steered the boat if they got a discount in their fare for doing so. The purpose of that nonsense is presumably to make it easier to deport the steerers.

    The question is what does this have to do with the RNLI? I think their concern is that if they pick people up in distress in the channel and bring them ashore they could now be caught by the legislation. The government is clear that this is rescue work, not "assisting illegal immigration". This is so obviously so that I am frankly a bit suspicious that the person or persons raising the alarm has another agenda.

    We don't need to rinse and repeat the old arguments. You know the law better than me, but as we all agreed last time "ah but the Home Secretary of the time said it doesn't apply" is no protection when the law says that it does.

    All the government needs to do is say "this is a drafting issue, we will revise it when the bill comes to parliament". Instead Patel smirks and says nothing. It is no error.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,607
    IanB2 said:

    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.

    I think there is quite good evidence of faecal virus, and diahorrea is a feature of Delta, so not implausible.

    As we all know, he who smelled it dealt it...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,370
    Good morning, everyone.

    Polybius: substantial amount at the end of book four/start of book five missing regarding war in Greece, particularly the early career of Philip V (of Macedon). Interested to see, however, what the Penguin has which Oxford (containing the aforementioned Greek stuff) does not.

    Quite interesting to read the two books roughly at the same time (I'm using the Penguin version as my 'main' read but filling in blanks with the Oxford where applicable).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,932
    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    Olympics Covid latest: entire Australian track & field team in isolation and awaiting test results. Would appear to be consequence of one member being a close contact of the American pole vault world champion Sam Kendricks, who was ruled out by a positive test earlier today.

    The athletics programme starts tomorrow. Oh dear.

    British media: DOES THIS INCREASE TEAM GB MEDAL CHANCES?!!!
    I remember being in NZ for the Commonwealth games in 1990. The coverage was spectacularly local, but all countries do that.

    "Now we go to the finals of the 100m and an interview with the 7th place NZ runner..."

    Not to be beaten by the Leicester Mercury who once led with the headline:

    "Bali bombing death toll reaches 200, Leicester family's holiday ruined"

    Nothing will ever beat “Fog in Channel - Continent Isolated”
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,297

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.

    So UK government ministers want to stop people farting in toilets.

    Viz could get a few “Bottom Inspectors” scripts out of that.
    The Bottom Inspectors! A truly sublime comic strip trip into totalitarianism and toilet humour...
    Certainly fits today’s topic: the totalitarian Tories are subliminally perceived to be shits. Even by fellow Tories.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,619

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Patel is not an instinctive Tory. She is a Revolutionary. They riddle the modern incarnation of the Conservative Party.

    If she was a Tory she would understand the special place charities like the RNLI hold in society. Most other states fund these rescue services through taxation, but not the UK. The RNLI must be one of the most British institutions around.

    What next for Patel? Legislating to hinder the monarch in her core duties?
    At some point the decent shire Tories who respect institutions handed down to them by their forefathers/mothers are going to get sick of this lot. I thought this was one of the defining characteristics of conservatism? Paging Michael Oakeshott.

    Maybe it is already happening - see C&A.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,221
    eek said:

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Indeed, and we never questioned that. Only that the bill seeks to criminalise them doing their job.
    Do you have a copy of the bill? The article and the discussion seems very incomplete without it.

    Personally, I think there's a very good solution - simply criminalise the act of bringing these assylum seekers into the UK. The RNLI has a moral duty to rescue anyone in peril, but they could just as easily deposit them in France.
    Really? How does that work when they are rescued within UK waters?
    Also with Macron currently behaving like Sir Mortimer Chris after his fifth acid bath, can we honestly say France is a safe country?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,932

    Sandpit said:

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    In her head she has. Incredibly.

    A member of my extended family is a lifeboat crew member in another country; his father describes the situation as 'his alarm goes and he's off out. Immediately!"

    Yes, lifeboatmen do meet idiots who should never have gone to sea. That doesn't mean they should be left to drown.
    I know a couple of people who do mountain rescue. They’re forever risking their own lives, to pick up people dressed in shorts, t-shirts and flip-flops with severe hypothermia, or who went for a walk and got completely lost as weather closed in. Idiots the lot of them, but still humans.

    The only way the boat crossings stop, is if the demand goes away. It’s clear that the French government doesn’t care, and is turning a blind eye to people eager to leave France to live in a safe country. We need to take the Denmark route, of facilitating settlement in a safe third country, and let it be known that anyone arriving by boat from France will be resettled elsewhere.
    As the "lets deport the forrin to Madagascar" proposal isn't realistic, we need to look at what is. Europe faces a massive refugee problem because of the burning mess on its borders. One way to stop the flow is to fix these problems. If Afghanistan, Libya, Syria were safe and functioning then less migrants need to flee.

    As that isn't very realistic then plan B - share the burden. Refugees can be distributed out amongst safe countries by agreement. But as its Britain Uber Alles these days we will enter no such agreement. Not that we need to considering we only get a small number of refugees anyway.

    Then we have Plan C. Make it so awful for refugees that the word gets to them not to come. Hence the "Drown the Migrants" bill.
    Plan D: take refugees from camps close to the crisis. Judge anyone else who arrives outside an airport by economic migrant standards and process them offshore.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,932

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    The RNLI rescues anyone and everyone no matter their circumstances when they are in peril on the sea and they place their own lives at risk

    Indeed, and we never questioned that. Only that the bill seeks to criminalise them doing their job.
    I would disagree with your ascertain the bill 'seeks to criminalise the RNLI' rather than it is poorly drafted

    As has previously been mentioned over the last few weeks, this anomaly will be addressed as the bill progresses through the HOC
    It *should* be

    If it isn’t then perhaps he has a point
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    Olympics Covid latest: entire Australian track & field team in isolation and awaiting test results. Would appear to be consequence of one member being a close contact of the American pole vault world champion Sam Kendricks, who was ruled out by a positive test earlier today.

    The athletics programme starts tomorrow. Oh dear.

    British media: DOES THIS INCREASE TEAM GB MEDAL CHANCES?!!!
    I remember being in NZ for the Commonwealth games in 1990. The coverage was spectacularly local, but all countries do that.

    "Now we go to the finals of the 100m and an interview with the 7th place NZ runner..."

    Not to be beaten by the Leicester Mercury who once led with the headline:

    "Bali bombing death toll reaches 200, Leicester family's holiday ruined"

    Nothing will ever beat “Fog in Channel - Continent Isolated”
    The sadly apocryphal "Titanic sinks, Dundee man drowns" for the Courier is pretty regularly cited up here.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,817

    DavidL said:

    Did we not discuss this recently on a thread by @Cyclefree ? The position, AIUI, is that the draft legislation removed the criteria that the offence of assisting illegal immigration had to be "for profit". The context was that there was apparently a practice of prosecuting those who steered the boat if they got a discount in their fare for doing so. The purpose of that nonsense is presumably to make it easier to deport the steerers.

    The question is what does this have to do with the RNLI? I think their concern is that if they pick people up in distress in the channel and bring them ashore they could now be caught by the legislation. The government is clear that this is rescue work, not "assisting illegal immigration". This is so obviously so that I am frankly a bit suspicious that the person or persons raising the alarm has another agenda.

    We don't need to rinse and repeat the old arguments. You know the law better than me, but as we all agreed last time "ah but the Home Secretary of the time said it doesn't apply" is no protection when the law says that it does.

    All the government needs to do is say "this is a drafting issue, we will revise it when the bill comes to parliament". Instead Patel smirks and says nothing. It is no error.
    Mysto the Mindreader speaks...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Sajid Javid, first by apologising for something now making a big deal on Twitter of his support for the RNLI’s latest video and donating to them, appears to be making his thing “I’m not like the rest of them, honest”.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,297

    DougSeal said:

    Toms said:

    At the risk of falling into a logical black hole I've just invented a word.
    It is "categorismus" to describe the process of making something seem real by putting a name to it.

    Eg. “the British Isles”.
    “Scotland”
    Yes Jim, we feel the love.

    image
    What I do find amusing about your love-in for Jim Murphy is that you keep reposting this photo of him in the referendum campaign suggesting that he was a negative influence.

    And yet No won...
    It illustrates one of the key fallacies of the BetterTogether platform: that Unionists love Scotland. As so often illustrated on these threads, Unionists often despise Scotland and do everything within their power to denigrate the country.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,473

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.

    So UK government ministers want to stop people farting in toilets.

    Viz could get a few “Bottom Inspectors” scripts out of that.
    The Bottom Inspectors! A truly sublime comic strip trip into totalitarianism and toilet humour...
    I remember Escape from Coldbotz with particular affection. Viz is a work of unparalleled genius.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,932
    DougSeal said:

    pigeon said:

    Olympics Covid latest: entire Australian track & field team in isolation and awaiting test results. Would appear to be consequence of one member being a close contact of the American pole vault world champion Sam Kendricks, who was ruled out by a positive test earlier today.

    The athletics programme starts tomorrow. Oh dear.

    British media: DOES THIS INCREASE TEAM GB MEDAL CHANCES?!!!
    That about sums it up. Their interest in sport is close to zero. This is all about politics. Makes you wonder what they are afraid of. Not.
    Enlighten us. What are the British media so afraid of?
    No one buying their product?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,062

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking (!): A number of UK government ministers have expressed concern over the possibility of coronavirus spreading through flatulence.

    There is reportedly evidence to suggest the deadly virus could spread through people farting in confined spaces such as a toilet.

    So UK government ministers want to stop people farting in toilets.

    Viz could get a few “Bottom Inspectors” scripts out of that.
    Seems a pretty marginal concern given that people also breathe in toilets and other confined spaces.
    But anything which encourages better ventilation of public loos isn't a bad thing,
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280

    DavidL said:

    Did we not discuss this recently on a thread by @Cyclefree ? The position, AIUI, is that the draft legislation removed the criteria that the offence of assisting illegal immigration had to be "for profit". The context was that there was apparently a practice of prosecuting those who steered the boat if they got a discount in their fare for doing so. The purpose of that nonsense is presumably to make it easier to deport the steerers.

    The question is what does this have to do with the RNLI? I think their concern is that if they pick people up in distress in the channel and bring them ashore they could now be caught by the legislation. The government is clear that this is rescue work, not "assisting illegal immigration". This is so obviously so that I am frankly a bit suspicious that the person or persons raising the alarm has another agenda.

    We don't need to rinse and repeat the old arguments. You know the law better than me, but as we all agreed last time "ah but the Home Secretary of the time said it doesn't apply" is no protection when the law says that it does.

    All the government needs to do is say "this is a drafting issue, we will revise it when the bill comes to parliament". Instead Patel smirks and says nothing. It is no error.
    Yes, well as I made clear the last time I am no fan of Patel. This is actually cowardice. Farage spouts some poisonous rubbish and the government wants to be seen to react instead of doing the right thing which is ignoring the sad old has been. But it is a meaningless gesture and there is no chance of anyone being prosecuted in the circumstances that apply to the RNLI.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,501

    Unionists often despise Scotland and do everything within their power to denigrate the country.

    Bollocks.

    At least some of them like Scotland enough to live there...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,801
    Scott_xP said:

    Just made a donation. If you’d like to too - and help save lives - please visit https://rnli.org/support-us/give-money/donate https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1420500685993480196/photo/1

    Because Grace fucking Darling deserves every penny we can spare her.

    The pot of charitable funding is not infinitely elastic, so why are we all cheering donations to an appallingly rich institution dedicated to smoothing the way of well heeled tossers who cannot read a tide table or work a diesel engine?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,221

    Thorough take down by Chris Snowden of the anti-vax and covid denier brigade. Especially the loons cheering the mad ex-nurse who thinks all doctors are Nazis:


    https://quillette.com/2021/07/28/vaccines-and-the-coronavirus-crank-crisis/


    Ends with this warning:

    "But without herd immunity for SARS-CoV-2, the refuseniks are on their own. They are facing an endemic disease armed with nothing but worming tablets and excessive faith in their immune system. That is their choice and whilst we should deter gullible people from being pulled into their orbit, we should not coerce them. There is no free ride this time. They alone will face the consequences of their actions."

    Reposted FPT as it deserves the widest possible audience.

    What is depressing is the state of the comments under it. Somebody’s obviously reposted it on an anti-vax forum and a load of utter shitheads - no other word will suffice - have turned up with a load of nasty and dishonest claims trying to refute the article.

    As they are unable to do so it being founded on these things called ‘facts,’ they resort to nasty personal abuse. Thoroughly unedifying.

    Contrarian is clearly the rule not the exception with such people.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,097
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    As the Father of a lifeboat crew member I completely endorse the thread header and it is intolerable the issue has even arisen

    Patel needs to deal with this

    I am so glad that PB was able to wake you up to this threat. Sometimes stupid legislation isn't done by accident, it is malicious. Like in this case where the angry forrin out end of the Brexiteer community has been upset by scenes of RNLI heroes rescuing drowning migrants. "Not a good look" as one of their supporters described on here.

    So the traitor Patel comes up with a wheeze. Draft a bill that leaves RNLI crews on the hook. Refuse to engage with critics, "it won't do that" when the bill clearly will. Show just enough support for the "drown the forrin" Tory supporters and hope the row makes people think anyone backing the RNLI are soft on migration.

    I hope it has backfired. Rescuing drowning migrants is not a play in their faux culture war. It is literal life and death, and highlights just how grotesque some of them are. A Tory Party that wanted to prosecute the RNLI for rescuing drowning children? "Not a good look"
    Where’s your evidence?

    The legislation is poorly drafted if there is uncertainty. It has not been through the revision process yet. The government has been completely clear that it is not their intention to criminalise the RNLI

    And yet you keep stating it’s because Priti Patel is an evil grotesque racist.

    Evidence?
    Its my opinion. If the only things we were allowed to post on here were facts then it wouldn't be much fun. As for Patel, I don't she is an evil grotesque racist, those are your words. I think she is a traitor to her country - sacked for having her own private foreign policy. I think that she is a hypocrite - advocating an immigration policy to stop the next generation of Patels and Javids from being in the UK. I think she is explicitly playing the race card on behalf of the racist element of the Tory vote - this bill. And I think she is stupid - a real terms cut in police pay now is a battle she can only lose.

    I know that you are bit of a political Janus. Officially Not A Tory but considered a man of both influence and reputation within the highest ranks of the Tory Party. So you want to defend your friends. Fine. It is your opinion that your friends would never do such a horrible thing. It is my opinion that they have. You have no evidence either old love, so wind it in.
    I never said I had influence or reputation in the Tory party. My reputation, such as it is, is the the healthcare sector
    Whilst I am quite happy to correct the record with regards to your lack of influence in the Tory party, I have to ask why people would come to you with healthcare expertese to try and win PPE contracts?

    As the NAO reported, the correct route was via the VIP lane with dedicated email access to ministers. The actual PPE companies missed out, with contracts awarded to Tory donors and friends some of whom had only just set up a PPE company. Hence it going to the High Court.

    "nothing illegal" is always your refrain. Fine, its just fabulously coincidental that (as an example) the leading suppliers got tiny contracts and people like that Tory councillor got hundreds of millions in contracts and didn't even supply the goods with no questions asked.
This discussion has been closed.