Some very encouraging polling worldwide and especially in the UK – politicalbetting.com

System · July 2021

Some very encouraging polling worldwide and especially in the UK – politicalbetting.com

Willingness to take COVID-19 vaccine, and percentage change since YouGov first asked?? 94% (+31)?? 93% (+20)?? 92% (+50)?? 92% (+39)?? 91% (+37)?? 90% (+26)?? 85% (+33)?? 82% (+30)?? 82% (+22)?? 80% (+29)?? 80% (+48)?? 71% (+29)?? 70% (-11)https://t.co/2pldtSPXsr pic.twitter.com/IRAPe3YnSv

Read the full story here

Malmesbury · July 2021

Errrr...

I think TSE missed the careful publicising of various celebrities getting their vaccinations (in their respective age groups) ?

And the government is doing quite a bit of pro-vax outreach. It is just that, in the internet age, the targeting is quite specific. So if you are pro-vax already, you won't be seeing most of the messaging.

ydoethur · July 2021

If you hate lockdowns and don’t get vaccinated and boosted when it is safe for you to do so then you’re creating the breeding grounds for future lockdowns. We need to ensure there’s no partisan divide when it comes to vaccines like we see in America.

Paging Contrarian...

TheScreamingEagles · July 2021

Malmesbury said:
Errrr...

I think TSE missed the careful publicising of various celebrities getting their vaccinations (in their respective age groups) ?

And the government is doing quite a bit of pro-vax outreach. It is just that, in the internet age, the targeting is quite specific. So if you are pro-vax already, you won't be seeing most of the messaging.

I meant a new campaign more aggressively targeted to dispel the nonsense we see in the tweets in the thread header.

DecrepiterJohnL · July 2021

Malmesbury said:
Errrr...

I think TSE missed the careful publicising of various celebrities getting their vaccinations (in their respective age groups) ?

And the government is doing quite a bit of pro-vax outreach. It is just that, in the internet age, the targeting is quite specific. So if you are pro-vax already, you won't be seeing most of the messaging.

erm, did you get wooshed? – really universally loved people like David Attenborough, Dame Judi Dench, and Jürgen Klopp

TheScreamingEagles · July 2021

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Malmesbury said:
Errrr...

I think TSE missed the careful publicising of various celebrities getting their vaccinations (in their respective age groups) ?

And the government is doing quite a bit of pro-vax outreach. It is just that, in the internet age, the targeting is quite specific. So if you are pro-vax already, you won't be seeing most of the messaging.
erm, did you get wooshed? – really universally loved people like David Attenborough, Dame Judi Dench, and Jürgen Klopp

Everyone loves Klopp, I know lots of Manchester United fans who love Klopp and think the worst thing Ed Woodward has ever done is this.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/man-utd-are-like-an-adult-version-of-disneyland-red-devils-crazy-/6cb0l4ouw9y41byr0p01z7lfd

Malmesbury · July 2021

TheScreamingEagles said:

Malmesbury said:
Errrr...

I think TSE missed the careful publicising of various celebrities getting their vaccinations (in their respective age groups) ?

And the government is doing quite a bit of pro-vax outreach. It is just that, in the internet age, the targeting is quite specific. So if you are pro-vax already, you won't be seeing most of the messaging.
I meant a new campaign more aggressively targeted to dispel the nonsense we see in the tweets in the thread header.

If you mean setting up a government unit to argue with flat earthers on Twitter...

No, for the love of God. No....

alex_ · July 2021

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Malmesbury said:
Errrr...

I think TSE missed the careful publicising of various celebrities getting their vaccinations (in their respective age groups) ?

And the government is doing quite a bit of pro-vax outreach. It is just that, in the internet age, the targeting is quite specific. So if you are pro-vax already, you won't be seeing most of the messaging.
erm, did you get wooshed? – really universally loved people like David Attenborough, Dame Judi Dench, and Jürgen Klopp

Not a fan of Judi Dench at all.

Although I think my parents hired out our house for a sitcom she was in when I was a baby, so maybe there’s something buried deep in my subconscious to explain it...

kle4 · July 2021

Mexicanpete said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

Philip_Thompson said:

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

MattW said:

Foxy said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

DavidL said:

squareroot2 said:

DavidL said:
No dissent from me. Only ill health is likely to stop him, John Smith style. He looks pretty healthy to me, certainly a lot healthier than Smith did.
Its team Starmer that is the problem in terms of succession. There is no standout candidate AFAIC that would be better the current incumbent.

Certainly not in Parliament. You have to be careful as you get older that your memories do not get tinged with nostalgia but I cannot recall a time when so few politicians of any party had any credibility or standing with the public as they do right now and Labour seem particularly badly affected although the Tories are far from immune. Starmer is as good as it gets in Labour.
Now, you've drawn me into a Starmer is crap post.

There are plenty of able Labour MPs , who are available, Benn, Kinnock, Cooper, Jarvis and plenty of others, plus people outside Parliament. Sadly after Corbyn there are also a raft of former quality Labour Politicians who are also outside the Party. And no I am not referring directly to Corbyn.

The key problem of why, for good or bad, we are lumbered with Starmer is the vague, but worrying prospect that he could be replaced by a moron like Burgon or RLB.
I think that there are few bright young things on the Labour benches is a feature of the massive defeat under Corbyn. It means that there are fewer new faces, and only those in the safest seats remain, therefore old timers or people like the useless Webbe in Leicester West, parachuted in under Corbyn following the purges.

I think the next Leader will be Nandy or Rayner, or someone else elected after 2010.
Leicester East, and Webbe replaced Keith Vaz who was not victim of a Corbynite purge, even if Webbe was parachuted in. Leicester West is Liz Kendall, who is just about hanging on.
Yes, of course. The infighting in Leicester East Labour Party is such that in the event of a by election they may well lose a lot more of the majority. For all his faults Vaz was good at cultivating his constituency vote.

Liz Kendall should be alright in LWest, as she held on in 2019, though the new boundaries are probably not going to help her.
Webbe is the next one (or next one but one) up before the beak. May be available soon,
.A 12 month sentence is required for a sacking I think. I don't think that severe an offense, and she is sitting as an independent at present. I don't think she would just resign out of shame, as she seems to have quite a brass neck.
I think that it’s twelve months to be disbarred from the House, a conviction with a lesser sentence triggers a recall petition (see Brecon and Radnor).

And I think she would be recalled. It’s clear she’s very unpopular in her seat.
Hopefully she doesn't avoid a recall by a technicality, like that creepy ex-Tory in Wales.
The technicality AIR (please correct me if I’m wrong) was that he was disciplined not prosecuted and convicted.

Although I agree that recall should be an option for disciplinary offences.
I didn't think it was that - suspension from the House is not prosecution or conviction, but he was suspended for long enough to be a recall criteria...but the decision to recommend suspension came from a body other than the Committee on Standards, which was not mentioned in the Recall Act (because the body in question did not exist at the time).
Right, I see what Philip means. Yes, that is a very silly technicality and tells me the legislation is badly worded.
It gets worse - a quick google shows a workaround should have been agreed to close the loophole, without needing to change legislation, but a game of one-upmanship meant it failed.

Parties on both sides of the house want to close the loophole and house leader Jacob Rees-Mogg tabled a motion to that effect to the Commons on Tuesday.

But the bid failed after Labour tabled a rival amendment attempting to make it retrospective, meaning it would apply to Mr Roberts.

Parliamentary procedure meant that the Labour amendment was considered to be in itself an objection to Mr Rees-Mogg's changes, stopping them from being agreed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57900798

Just seems stupid - everyone is angry about Roberts escaping due punishment, but making laws and rules retrospective should not be done lightly.
Roberts has got away lightly compared to the autistic guy in Hallam from the last Parliament who was pilloried and ridiculed for years on here ( I am not saying it wasn't totally deserved). Roberts on the other hand has got by more or less unscathed by the social commentariat. If the Conservatives are as ashamed of Roberts as they claim, and remember, they are sitting on an 80 seat majority, maybe he should be sacrificed for the common good.

Not making rules retrospective is not about protecting the individual concerned. Roberts is a lucky SOB he cannot be forced out, but tearing up the rulebook to get at him is risky.

SandraMc · July 2021

If we are still doing where we have lived in London in order of preference, for me it is:
Fulham
Bayswater
Ealing

Sandpit · July 2021

Good news all round. Get vaccinated, peeps!

EPG · July 2021

Thanks for calling out The Lancet and Private Eye, TSE: a reminder that their desire to provoke can outrun the truth. Maybe to be expected in a scandal rag, but less forgivable in a so-called medical journal.

MattW · July 2021

Excellent header.

I'm tempted to think that only countries with excellent health care protect enough for Covid-Hesitancy to be viable.

MaxPB · July 2021

We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.

MattW · July 2021

alex_ said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Malmesbury said:
Errrr...

I think TSE missed the careful publicising of various celebrities getting their vaccinations (in their respective age groups) ?

And the government is doing quite a bit of pro-vax outreach. It is just that, in the internet age, the targeting is quite specific. So if you are pro-vax already, you won't be seeing most of the messaging.
erm, did you get wooshed? – really universally loved people like David Attenborough, Dame Judi Dench, and Jürgen Klopp
Not a fan of Judi Dench at all.

Although I think my parents hired out our house for a sitcom she was in when I was a baby, so maybe there’s something buried deep in my subconscious to explain it...

Wouldn't know Klopp from Adam. Is he a horse?

alex_ · July 2021

If that US figure is really true then we should be seeing a massive surge in take-up over the next few weeks. I’m doubtful...

NickPalmer · July 2021

ydoethur said:
If you hate lockdowns and don’t get vaccinated and boosted when it is safe for you to do so then you’re creating the breeding grounds for future lockdowns. We need to ensure there’s no partisan divide when it comes to vaccines like we see in America.

Paging Contrarian...

Yeah, it's an important survival skill to be willing to recognise and take good advice even if it's given by someobdy you don't like. You might be a bit wary of it for that reason and cross-check the arguments, but in the end you should be persuaded. Which seems to be what's gradually happened in the States. 90% is a pretty convincing figure.

What's the outlier flag at the bottom - Thailand?

pm215 · July 2021

Malmesbury said:
And the government is doing quite a bit of pro-vax outreach. It is just that, in the internet age, the targeting is quite specific. So if you are pro-vax already, you won't be seeing most of the messaging.

The stuff I see on youtube is on the "let's not go back [to lockdowns]" theme, basically "vaccination is the way to get back to fun stuff like festivals and what-have-you. Not very well targeted, since I am neither young, unvaccinated nor a festival-goer, but it's nice to know they're getting the message out. Oh, and I also get stuff in Welsh because Google has decided I'm located in Llandudno for some reason.

kle4 · July 2021

Thank goodness the French hesistancy was not as the polling indicated.

TheScreamingEagles · July 2021

EPG said:
Thanks for calling out The Lancet and Private Eye, TSE: a reminder that their desire to provoke can outrun the truth. Maybe to be expected in a scandal rag, but less forgivable in a so-called medical journal.

I get incredibly angry that Richard Horton is still editor of The Lancet.

My father will tell you that the most common question he has been asked in the last twenty years is 'Is there a link between the MMR jab and autism?'

Carnyx · July 2021

EPG said:
Thanks for calling out The Lancet and Private Eye, TSE: a reminder that their desire to provoke can outrun the truth. Maybe to be expected in a scandal rag, but less forgivable in a so-called medical journal.

That was a long time ago. I've found PE's coronavirus coverage vastly better - for instance in emphasising the wider problem of obesity, lack of execise etc (and the implications both for individuals and governments).

Northern_Al · July 2021

I agree with the header. Down in Brighton, today's data show 53.4% fully vaccinated, with 72.5% partially vaccinated. These figures are absolutely awful, are creeping up only very slowly, and don't inspire confidence. It's partly down to a relatively younger population, but also down to a lot of anti-vaxxers - not so much the anti-lockdown types, but more the tree-hugging don't want to pollute my body with chemicals (except weed, of course) types. The local council has been doing its best to run a pro-vax campaign.

So despite the 'everybody is now vaxxed' rhetoric by some, there's a long way to go in some parts of the country. It's clear that a stronger combination of carrot and stick is needed if places like Brighton are going to get to 80%, let alone 90% or more, fully vaccinated.

TheScreamingEagles · July 2021

NickPalmer said:

ydoethur said:
If you hate lockdowns and don’t get vaccinated and boosted when it is safe for you to do so then you’re creating the breeding grounds for future lockdowns. We need to ensure there’s no partisan divide when it comes to vaccines like we see in America.

Paging Contrarian...
Yeah, it's an important survival skill to be willing to recognise and take good advice even if it's given by someobdy you don't like. You might be a bit wary of it for that reason and cross-check the arguments, but in the end you should be persuaded. Which seems to be what's gradually happened in the States. 90% is a pretty convincing figure.

What's the outlier flag at the bottom - Thailand?

Yes Thailand.

Brief explainer why.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3139074/thailands-conflict-hit-deep-south-mistrust-fuels-covid

MaxPB · July 2021

Northern_Al said:
I agree with the header. Down in Brighton, today's data show 53.4% fully vaccinated, with 72.5% partially vaccinated. These figures are absolutely awful, are creeping up only very slowly, and don't inspire confidence. It's partly down to a relatively younger population, but also down to a lot of anti-vaxxers - not so much the anti-lockdown types, but more the tree-hugging don't want to pollute my body with chemicals (except weed, of course) types. The local council has been doing its best to run a pro-vax campaign.

So despite the 'everybody is now vaxxed' rhetoric by some, there's a long way to go in some parts of the country. It's clear that a stronger combination of carrot and stick is needed if places like Brighton are going to get to 80% or more fully vaccinated.

Just a word of caution, our local figures are based on NIMS data which overestimate population figures, especially in areas with younger and more transient populations. I really wish that the dashboard would move to ONS data rather than NIMS which they know is definitely wrong.

Malmesbury · July 2021

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.

Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...

kle4 · July 2021

I wonder if it is awkward for anti-vax loonies who believe in different conspiracy theories - like those who think 5G causes Covid get mad at those who think Covid isn't real and it is all about Bill Gates mind control.

Foxy · July 2021

NickPalmer said:

ydoethur said:
If you hate lockdowns and don’t get vaccinated and boosted when it is safe for you to do so then you’re creating the breeding grounds for future lockdowns. We need to ensure there’s no partisan divide when it comes to vaccines like we see in America.

Paging Contrarian...
Yeah, it's an important survival skill to be willing to recognise and take good advice even if it's given by someobdy you don't like. You might be a bit wary of it for that reason and cross-check the arguments, but in the end you should be persuaded. Which seems to be what's gradually happened in the States. 90% is a pretty convincing figure.

What's the outlier flag at the bottom - Thailand?

Yes. What's going on there? Apart from an ongoing pandemic.

Stuartinromford · July 2021

kle4 said:
Thank goodness the French hesistancy was not as the polling indicated.

People who know France better than I do were always pretty sanguine about that- they expected both the initial moaning and the acceptance of the jab when offered.

Besides, the French vaccination ads are very persuasive;

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210708/france-expanding-its-sexy-advertising-campaign-for-covid-vaccines/

MaxPB · July 2021

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...

A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.

Northern_Al · July 2021

MaxPB said:

Northern_Al said:
I agree with the header. Down in Brighton, today's data show 53.4% fully vaccinated, with 72.5% partially vaccinated. These figures are absolutely awful, are creeping up only very slowly, and don't inspire confidence. It's partly down to a relatively younger population, but also down to a lot of anti-vaxxers - not so much the anti-lockdown types, but more the tree-hugging don't want to pollute my body with chemicals (except weed, of course) types. The local council has been doing its best to run a pro-vax campaign.

So despite the 'everybody is now vaxxed' rhetoric by some, there's a long way to go in some parts of the country. It's clear that a stronger combination of carrot and stick is needed if places like Brighton are going to get to 80% or more fully vaccinated.
Just a word of caution, our local figures are based on NIMS data which overestimate population figures, especially in areas with younger and more transient populations. I really wish that the dashboard would move to ONS data rather than NIMS which they know is definitely wrong.

Yes, I agree, and I'm a bit sceptical about the Brighton data, especially given how transient the population is and the volume of students etc. Nevertheless, the figures I gave in my post won't be ridiculously out, so they are still a cause for concern.

Sandpit · July 2021

TheScreamingEagles said:

EPG said:
Thanks for calling out The Lancet and Private Eye, TSE: a reminder that their desire to provoke can outrun the truth. Maybe to be expected in a scandal rag, but less forgivable in a so-called medical journal.
I get incredibly angry that Richard Horton is still editor of The Lancet.

My father will tell you that the most common question he has been asked in the last twenty years is 'Is there a link between the MMR jab and autism?'

Surely any credibility the Lancet might have had left, has evaporated by their continual support of the Chinese Covid narrative, to the exclusion of all others?

EPG · July 2021

Carnyx said:

EPG said:
Thanks for calling out The Lancet and Private Eye, TSE: a reminder that their desire to provoke can outrun the truth. Maybe to be expected in a scandal rag, but less forgivable in a so-called medical journal.
That was a long time ago. I've found PE's coronavirus coverage vastly better - for instance in emphasising the wider problem of obesity, lack of execise etc (and the implications both for individuals and governments).

I'm sure that matters, but as an emphasis, it sounds perilously close to a bad-flu type argument, blaming chubby kids and Playstation.

alex_ · July 2021

pm215 said:

Malmesbury said:
And the government is doing quite a bit of pro-vax outreach. It is just that, in the internet age, the targeting is quite specific. So if you are pro-vax already, you won't be seeing most of the messaging.
The stuff I see on youtube is on the "let's not go back [to lockdowns]" theme, basically "vaccination is the way to get back to fun stuff like festivals and what-have-you. Not very well targeted, since I am neither young, unvaccinated nor a festival-goer, but it's nice to know they're getting the message out. Oh, and I also get stuff in Welsh because Google has decided I'm located in Llandudno for some reason.

I understand the point, but I REALLY hate the “don’t let’s go back to lockdowns” message. I think it has the potential to demoralise the unvaccinated and vaccinated alike , and is creating an undercurrent of assumption/expectation that lockdowns will be reimplemented over the winter as a matter of course.

We need more of the Javid message, formulated/researched to inspire those who will read it.

Basically we need to respect the virus, but not fear it.

MaxPB · July 2021

Northern_Al said:

MaxPB said:

Northern_Al said:
I agree with the header. Down in Brighton, today's data show 53.4% fully vaccinated, with 72.5% partially vaccinated. These figures are absolutely awful, are creeping up only very slowly, and don't inspire confidence. It's partly down to a relatively younger population, but also down to a lot of anti-vaxxers - not so much the anti-lockdown types, but more the tree-hugging don't want to pollute my body with chemicals (except weed, of course) types. The local council has been doing its best to run a pro-vax campaign.

So despite the 'everybody is now vaxxed' rhetoric by some, there's a long way to go in some parts of the country. It's clear that a stronger combination of carrot and stick is needed if places like Brighton are going to get to 80% or more fully vaccinated.
Just a word of caution, our local figures are based on NIMS data which overestimate population figures, especially in areas with younger and more transient populations. I really wish that the dashboard would move to ONS data rather than NIMS which they know is definitely wrong.
Yes, I agree, and I'm a bit sceptical about the Brighton data, especially given how transient the population is and the volume of students etc. Nevertheless, the figures I gave in my post won't be ridiculously out, and they are a cause for concern.

They could be out by as much as 10% in places like Brighton which which would be a big change to the narrative. London currently suffers from that too, especially some of the borough stats on vaccination. We have places like Enfield and Harrow, for example, where the third wave never really took off which is likely due to very high vaccination rates but the dashboard rates are much lower than the infection rate would imply.

Pagan2 · July 2021

FPT

kinabalu said:

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

Omnium said:

mwadams said:

alex_ said:

MaxPB said:

Nigel_Foremain said:
Just read what Javid said. I am not a fan of the government, but for goodness sake, this looks like people trying to take offence!
It definitely was and the truth of what he said hasn't changed. People just don't want to hear it.
Agree, but as i said last night i think if he had said "we shouldn't be cowed by it" as opposed to "people shouldn't cower from it", i doubt it would have been an issue.

Maybe.

I think that's probably what was meant (someone will probably argue that it means the same thing!)
That ignores the fact that he's a massive Ayn Rand fan and he's quoting. I think he thought it would be a positive.
Is being an Ayn Rand fan a negative? I have an unopened copy of Atlas Shrugged about to be opened.
With very few exceptions those who love that book are ultra libertarian fruitcakes.

So if that's you, you are in for a treat.
When socialism raises millions from poverty then you get to complain (sure you will diagree but cite an example) in the mean while the right wing has sucessfully lifted 100 millions out of poverty. And no not a rand fan but you purely dont like it because she is a right winger rather than the fact that actually she just wasnt a good writer
Where has the right wing lifted 100s of millions out of poverty?

You are aware capitalism is considered right wing?

DecrepiterJohnL · July 2021

alex_ said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Malmesbury said:
Errrr...

I think TSE missed the careful publicising of various celebrities getting their vaccinations (in their respective age groups) ?

And the government is doing quite a bit of pro-vax outreach. It is just that, in the internet age, the targeting is quite specific. So if you are pro-vax already, you won't be seeing most of the messaging.
erm, did you get wooshed? – really universally loved people like David Attenborough, Dame Judi Dench, and Jürgen Klopp
Not a fan of Judi Dench at all.

Although I think my parents hired out our house for a sitcom she was in when I was a baby, so maybe there’s something buried deep in my subconscious to explain it...

Judi Dench was the first star I saw live, at the New End theatre in Hampstead. Damned if I can remember what the play was. What the "where I lived in London" PBers FPT don't tell you about Hampstead is that *all* of it is uphill.

Philip_Thompson · July 2021

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.

Not restaurants, pubs, cafes and bars for the simple reason that most of them do not have door staff and if people are just walking into the building then there's no way to really check the ID at that point.

Anywhere that door staff or ticketing is another question. That could certainly from your list include cinemas, theatres, clubs, venues, gyms etc

I'm against Covid Passports in principle but I'm so fed up with antivaxxers that I think screw them for one winter. Lets bring this in, with a one winter sunset clause, and lockup antivaxxers not the nation.

@Gnud of this site referring to "antivaxx" as Hate Speech and holding up Andrew Wakefield as a positive example has really pissed me off: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3498387#Comment_3498387 - this is the kind of BS that sane people are having to deal with.

Sandpit · July 2021

kle4 said:
I wonder if it is awkward for anti-vax loonies who believe in different conspiracy theories - like those who think 5G causes Covid get mad at those who think Covid isn't real and it is all about Bill Gates mind control.

That’s a huge problem in the States, where vegan Californians, Southern rednecks, and inner-city black communities, all have very different reasons for not getting vaccinated.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/unvaccinated-different-anti-vax/619523/

Philip_Thompson · July 2021

Pagan2 said:
FPT
kinabalu said:

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

Omnium said:

mwadams said:

alex_ said:

MaxPB said:

Nigel_Foremain said:
Just read what Javid said. I am not a fan of the government, but for goodness sake, this looks like people trying to take offence!
It definitely was and the truth of what he said hasn't changed. People just don't want to hear it.
Agree, but as i said last night i think if he had said "we shouldn't be cowed by it" as opposed to "people shouldn't cower from it", i doubt it would have been an issue.

Maybe.

I think that's probably what was meant (someone will probably argue that it means the same thing!)
That ignores the fact that he's a massive Ayn Rand fan and he's quoting. I think he thought it would be a positive.
Is being an Ayn Rand fan a negative? I have an unopened copy of Atlas Shrugged about to be opened.
With very few exceptions those who love that book are ultra libertarian fruitcakes.

So if that's you, you are in for a treat.
When socialism raises millions from poverty then you get to complain (sure you will diagree but cite an example) in the mean while the right wing has sucessfully lifted 100 millions out of poverty. And no not a rand fan but you purely dont like it because she is a right winger rather than the fact that actually she just wasnt a good writer
Where has the right wing lifted 100s of millions out of poverty?
You are aware capitalism is considered right wing?

@kinabalu is right capitalism hasn't lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty.

(Spoiler: Its lifted billions of people out of poverty)

NickPalmer · July 2021

Foxy said:

NickPalmer said:

ydoethur said:
If you hate lockdowns and don’t get vaccinated and boosted when it is safe for you to do so then you’re creating the breeding grounds for future lockdowns. We need to ensure there’s no partisan divide when it comes to vaccines like we see in America.

Paging Contrarian...
Yeah, it's an important survival skill to be willing to recognise and take good advice even if it's given by someobdy you don't like. You might be a bit wary of it for that reason and cross-check the arguments, but in the end you should be persuaded. Which seems to be what's gradually happened in the States. 90% is a pretty convincing figure.

What's the outlier flag at the bottom - Thailand?
Yes. What's going on there? Apart from an ongoing pandemic.

From memory, royalists and urban elitists trying to suppress rural populists. Others will know more.

FrancisUrquhart · July 2021

Footballers as role models is taking a bit of a hit this week....we have censored underaged criminal case, ryan giggs in court for beating his partner, joey barton charged with beating his wife and now wayne rooney cheating on his wife yet again....

Pagan2 · July 2021

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:
FPT
kinabalu said:

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

Omnium said:

mwadams said:

alex_ said:

MaxPB said:

Nigel_Foremain said:
Just read what Javid said. I am not a fan of the government, but for goodness sake, this looks like people trying to take offence!
It definitely was and the truth of what he said hasn't changed. People just don't want to hear it.
Agree, but as i said last night i think if he had said "we shouldn't be cowed by it" as opposed to "people shouldn't cower from it", i doubt it would have been an issue.

Maybe.

I think that's probably what was meant (someone will probably argue that it means the same thing!)
That ignores the fact that he's a massive Ayn Rand fan and he's quoting. I think he thought it would be a positive.
Is being an Ayn Rand fan a negative? I have an unopened copy of Atlas Shrugged about to be opened.
With very few exceptions those who love that book are ultra libertarian fruitcakes.

So if that's you, you are in for a treat.
When socialism raises millions from poverty then you get to complain (sure you will diagree but cite an example) in the mean while the right wing has sucessfully lifted 100 millions out of poverty. And no not a rand fan but you purely dont like it because she is a right winger rather than the fact that actually she just wasnt a good writer
Where has the right wing lifted 100s of millions out of poverty?
You are aware capitalism is considered right wing?
@kinabalu is right capitalism hasn't lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty.

(Spoiler: Its lifted billions of people out of poverty)

I assumed going for a lower figure he would find harder to deny....my mistake

FrancisUrquhart · July 2021

Sandpit said:

kle4 said:
I wonder if it is awkward for anti-vax loonies who believe in different conspiracy theories - like those who think 5G causes Covid get mad at those who think Covid isn't real and it is all about Bill Gates mind control.
That’s a huge problem in the States, where vegan Californians, Southern rednecks, and inner-city black communities, all have very different reasons for not getting vaccinated.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/unvaccinated-different-anti-vax/619523/

Just been listening to sam harris episode on this....yoga community apparently big anti-vaxxers in US. And obviously the russians are giving the misinformation a helping hand.

alex_ · July 2021

What are the Australian and New Zealand figures?

I suppose they *might* be quite high, but vaccine specific. Which is a big current problem for Australia in particular.

TheScreamingEagles · July 2021

FrancisUrquhart said:
Footballers as role models is taking a bit of a hit this week....we have censored underaged criminal case, ryan giggs in court for beating his partner, joey barton charged with beating his wife and now wayne rooney cheating on his wife yet again....

That's why I suggested Klopp, brilliant, without a blemish, and everyone loves him.

DecrepiterJohnL · July 2021

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...
A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.

I still think a lot of the unvaccinated are not antivaxxers (although some are at least mildly sceptical) but have fallen outside the system, which is designed for people who are known to the NHS and who can arrange time off to get jabbed. For instance, my own GP registration had been mistakenly purged and had to be reinstated. If I'd not been proactive but had waited for the call, as HMG urged, I'd still be waiting. There must be many who've never even registered.

It has recently been reported many jockeys are not vaccinated because they do not know where they will be more than a couple of days in advance. This again must apply to many workers, and there will be many more who would need to take time off work. Not everyone can claim to be WFH as long as their mobile phone is on.

CorrectHorseBattery · July 2021

https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1419373703859785741

TheScreamingEagles · July 2021

alex_ said:
What are the Australian and New Zealand figures?

I suppose they *might* be quite high, but vaccine specific. Which is a big current problem for Australia in particular.

No figure for NZ but for the Aussies it is 78% now (up from 64% in December.)

FrancisUrquhart · July 2021

I know Team GB funding cuts and want to attract more diverse talent....but having a kayak centre at underground station in East London seems like taking it a bit far....

https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1419369596721770500?s=19

MaxPB · July 2021

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Not restaurants, pubs, cafes and bars for the simple reason that most of them do not have door staff and if people are just walking into the building then there's no way to really check the ID at that point.

Anywhere that door staff or ticketing is another question. That could certainly from your list include cinemas, theatres, clubs, venues, gyms etc

I'm against Covid Passports in principle but I'm so fed up with antivaxxers that I think screw them for one winter. Lets bring this in, with a one winter sunset clause, and lockup antivaxxers not the nation.

@Gnud of this site referring to "antivaxx" as Hate Speech and holding up Andrew Wakefield as a positive example has really pissed me off: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3498387#Comment_3498387 - this is the kind of BS that sane people are having to deal with.

Ultimately the policy isn't about actually having them it's about getting people into the vaccination centres. If we get to 96% of adults then there's no need for them.

Philip_Thompson · July 2021

kle4 said:
I wonder if it is awkward for anti-vax loonies who believe in different conspiracy theories - like those who think 5G causes Covid get mad at those who think Covid isn't real and it is all about Bill Gates mind control.

Conspiracy theorists are Through the Looking Glass and have turned into the White Queen. They love to believe conspiracy theories and it doesn't matter if the conspiracy theories are impossibly contradictory or just plain impossible, the fact they're a conspiracy theory and "against the man" makes them believable. Even or especially if they're contradictory.

Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

Philip_Thompson · July 2021

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Not restaurants, pubs, cafes and bars for the simple reason that most of them do not have door staff and if people are just walking into the building then there's no way to really check the ID at that point.

Anywhere that door staff or ticketing is another question. That could certainly from your list include cinemas, theatres, clubs, venues, gyms etc

I'm against Covid Passports in principle but I'm so fed up with antivaxxers that I think screw them for one winter. Lets bring this in, with a one winter sunset clause, and lockup antivaxxers not the nation.

@Gnud of this site referring to "antivaxx" as Hate Speech and holding up Andrew Wakefield as a positive example has really pissed me off: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3498387#Comment_3498387 - this is the kind of BS that sane people are having to deal with.
Ultimately the policy isn't about actually having them it's about getting people into the vaccination centres. If we get to 96% of adults then there's no need for them.

True but if the policy isn't implementable then it won't drive people forwards since you'll just get arguments and retreat from the policy.

Make it so that any premise with door staff or ticketed entry requires them to check vaxport status, with a sunset clause for Spring 2021.

alex_ · July 2021

Sandpit said:

kle4 said:
I wonder if it is awkward for anti-vax loonies who believe in different conspiracy theories - like those who think 5G causes Covid get mad at those who think Covid isn't real and it is all about Bill Gates mind control.
That’s a huge problem in the States, where vegan Californians, Southern rednecks, and inner-city black communities, all have very different reasons for not getting vaccinated.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/unvaccinated-different-anti-vax/619523/

Conspiracy theorists arguing with each other over the implausibility of the arguments for their chosen alternative to the official version is usually quite amusing (more so of course when it has little real world consequences). 9/11 theories are always good value for that.

The only thing they can agree on is that the official version is DEFINITELY a complete fabrication.

Leon · July 2021

On preferred London locales, I am happy to say that - prisons aside (I was innocent, so it seems fair) - I have only lived in a "1"

ie a postcode ending in "1"

I've lived in

NW1
W1
WC1
N1
and
E1

I'd quite like to try SW1 and S1 but there isn't an S1 (why?)

MaxPB · July 2021

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Not restaurants, pubs, cafes and bars for the simple reason that most of them do not have door staff and if people are just walking into the building then there's no way to really check the ID at that point.

Anywhere that door staff or ticketing is another question. That could certainly from your list include cinemas, theatres, clubs, venues, gyms etc

I'm against Covid Passports in principle but I'm so fed up with antivaxxers that I think screw them for one winter. Lets bring this in, with a one winter sunset clause, and lockup antivaxxers not the nation.

@Gnud of this site referring to "antivaxx" as Hate Speech and holding up Andrew Wakefield as a positive example has really pissed me off: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3498387#Comment_3498387 - this is the kind of BS that sane people are having to deal with.
Ultimately the policy isn't about actually having them it's about getting people into the vaccination centres. If we get to 96% of adults then there's no need for them.
True but if the policy isn't implementable then it won't drive people forwards since you'll just get arguments and retreat from the policy.

Make it so that any premise with door staff or ticketed entry requires them to check vaxport status, with a sunset clause for Spring 2021.

It's easy to implement, make it presentabile on payment and incorporate the QR scan into POS systems. As I said, it's a completely awful idea and horrible way to live, however, we need to get another 4.3m people vaccinated in the UK and it will need some pretty tough measures to achieve.

Sandpit · July 2021

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...
A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.
I still think a lot of the unvaccinated are not antivaxxers (although some are at least mildly sceptical) but have fallen outside the system, which is designed for people who are known to the NHS and who can arrange time off to get jabbed. For instance, my own GP registration had been mistakenly purged and had to be reinstated. If I'd not been proactive but had waited for the call, as HMG urged, I'd still be waiting. There must be many who've never even registered.

It has recently been reported many jockeys are not vaccinated because they do not know where they will be more than a couple of days in advance. This again must apply to many workers, and there will be many more who would need to take time off work. Not everyone can claim to be WFH as long as their mobile phone is on.

Yep. There’s also two groups I’ve mentioned previously:

1. Foreigners not in the NHS system. Maybe tourists who got stuck, or overstayers working outside the regular economy.

2. Brits who were vaccinated abroad, and need to find a way to register these vaccines with the NHS.

tlg86 · July 2021

FrancisUrquhart said:
Footballers as role models is taking a bit of a hit this week....we have censored underaged criminal case, ryan giggs in court for beating his partner, joey barton charged with beating his wife and now wayne rooney cheating on his wife yet again....

On the censored one, apparently the PL have been deleting fantasy teams with team names making puns on the player's name.

Paristonda · July 2021

kle4 said:
Thank goodness the French hesistancy was not as the polling indicated.

I’ve spoken to too many people here, (colleagues, cleaner, babysitter), that hadn’t yet been vaccinated, mostly through laziness or vague health concerns, and even someone who was “just going to wait for the french vaccine”. None were true anti vaxxers though so Macron’s new tactic has been the push needed to get most of them jabbed. What’s strange is that a lot of them were very much concerned about the virus, wore masks and were wary of rushing out to bars. It’s a mentality I understand even less than the true anti-vaxxer/Covid hoax lot.

Pagan2 · July 2021

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...
A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.
I still think a lot of the unvaccinated are not antivaxxers (although some are at least mildly sceptical) but have fallen outside the system, which is designed for people who are known to the NHS and who can arrange time off to get jabbed. For instance, my own GP registration had been mistakenly purged and had to be reinstated. If I'd not been proactive but had waited for the call, as HMG urged, I'd still be waiting. There must be many who've never even registered.

It has recently been reported many jockeys are not vaccinated because they do not know where they will be more than a couple of days in advance. This again must apply to many workers, and there will be many more who would need to take time off work. Not everyone can claim to be WFH as long as their mobile phone is on.
Yep. There’s also two groups I’ve mentioned previously:

1. Foreigners not in the NHS system. Maybe tourists who got stuck, or overstayers working outside the regular economy.

2. Brits who were vaccinated abroad, and need to find a way to register these vaccines with the NHS.

You forgot 3) Brits that are fully vaxxed and want nothing to do with the illiberal vax passport especially when they start talking about schemes to monitor what you eat.

squareroot2 · July 2021

FrancisUrquhart said:
Footballers as role models is taking a bit of a hit this week....we have censored underaged criminal case, ryan giggs in court for beating his partner, joey barton charged with beating his wife and now wayne rooney cheating on his wife yet again....

Has he gone for the older woman again???

JohnLilburne · July 2021

Leon said:
On preferred London locales, I am happy to say that - prisons aside (I was innocent, so it seems fair) - I have only lived in a "1"

ie a postcode ending in "1"

I've lived in

NW1
W1
WC1
N1
and
E1

I'd quite like to try SW1 and S1 but there isn't an S1 (why?)

For the same reason there isn't an NE.

Sandpit · July 2021

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...
A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.
I still think a lot of the unvaccinated are not antivaxxers (although some are at least mildly sceptical) but have fallen outside the system, which is designed for people who are known to the NHS and who can arrange time off to get jabbed. For instance, my own GP registration had been mistakenly purged and had to be reinstated. If I'd not been proactive but had waited for the call, as HMG urged, I'd still be waiting. There must be many who've never even registered.

It has recently been reported many jockeys are not vaccinated because they do not know where they will be more than a couple of days in advance. This again must apply to many workers, and there will be many more who would need to take time off work. Not everyone can claim to be WFH as long as their mobile phone is on.
Yep. There’s also two groups I’ve mentioned previously:

1. Foreigners not in the NHS system. Maybe tourists who got stuck, or overstayers working outside the regular economy.

2. Brits who were vaccinated abroad, and need to find a way to register these vaccines with the NHS.
You forgot 3) Brits that are fully vaxxed and want nothing to do with the illiberal vax passport especially when they start talking about schemes to monitor what you eat.

What has that got to do with the compilation of statistics, or encouraging the last few?

If your group have all been jabbed, then fantastic!

noneoftheabove · July 2021

Leon said:
On preferred London locales, I am happy to say that - prisons aside (I was innocent, so it seems fair) - I have only lived in a "1"

ie a postcode ending in "1"

I've lived in

NW1
W1
WC1
N1
and
E1

I'd quite like to try SW1 and S1 but there isn't an S1 (why?)

You should be asking why there is an N1 instead of an NE1 (because of Newcastle). Otherwise it would be NW, NE, SW, SE.

MaxPB · July 2021

squareroot2 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Footballers as role models is taking a bit of a hit this week....we have censored underaged criminal case, ryan giggs in court for beating his partner, joey barton charged with beating his wife and now wayne rooney cheating on his wife yet again....
Has he gone for the older woman again???

Not this time, though evidence suggests he fell asleep before doing the deed.

Pagan2 · July 2021

Sandpit said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...
A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.
I still think a lot of the unvaccinated are not antivaxxers (although some are at least mildly sceptical) but have fallen outside the system, which is designed for people who are known to the NHS and who can arrange time off to get jabbed. For instance, my own GP registration had been mistakenly purged and had to be reinstated. If I'd not been proactive but had waited for the call, as HMG urged, I'd still be waiting. There must be many who've never even registered.

It has recently been reported many jockeys are not vaccinated because they do not know where they will be more than a couple of days in advance. This again must apply to many workers, and there will be many more who would need to take time off work. Not everyone can claim to be WFH as long as their mobile phone is on.
Yep. There’s also two groups I’ve mentioned previously:

1. Foreigners not in the NHS system. Maybe tourists who got stuck, or overstayers working outside the regular economy.

2. Brits who were vaccinated abroad, and need to find a way to register these vaccines with the NHS.
You forgot 3) Brits that are fully vaxxed and want nothing to do with the illiberal vax passport especially when they start talking about schemes to monitor what you eat.
What has that got to do with the compilation of statistics, or encouraging the last few?

If your group have all been jabbed, then fantastic!

Because you are saying the advocation and implementation of vax ports will encourage the last few

rcs1000 · July 2021

Where I've lived in London, by order of preference

Fitzrovia (best)
Hampstead
Aldgate East
Pimlico
Bayswater (worst)

But even my lowest is probably still 7.5/10: each of those places was great in one way or another.

I loved Bayswater for the park and the pretty decent high street and the good transport links. Pimlico was my introduction to London. Aldgate East had Brick Lane and Wapping on our doorstep. Hampstead is just the most beautiful place to be.

But Fitzrovia is walking distance from both Central London, Charlotte Street, and Regents Park. It was also a delightful, hidden village in the centre of London.

JohnLilburne · July 2021

noneoftheabove said:

Leon said:
On preferred London locales, I am happy to say that - prisons aside (I was innocent, so it seems fair) - I have only lived in a "1"

ie a postcode ending in "1"

I've lived in

NW1
W1
WC1
N1
and
E1

I'd quite like to try SW1 and S1 but there isn't an S1 (why?)
You should be asking why there is an N1 instead of an NE1 (because of Newcastle). Otherwise it would be NW, NE, SW, SE.

I think London sectors preceded postcodes. Everything East of the Lea is... just East.

rcs1000 · July 2021

Leon said:
On preferred London locales, I am happy to say that - prisons aside (I was innocent, so it seems fair) - I have only lived in a "1"

ie a postcode ending in "1"

I've lived in

NW1
W1
WC1
N1
and
E1

I'd quite like to try SW1 and S1 but there isn't an S1 (why?)

From a postcode perspective (and including my current London flat), I've lived in:

W1
WC1
NW3
W2
E1

So, that's a pretty similar list.

squareroot2 · July 2021

MaxPB said:

squareroot2 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Footballers as role models is taking a bit of a hit this week....we have censored underaged criminal case, ryan giggs in court for beating his partner, joey barton charged with beating his wife and now wayne rooney cheating on his wife yet again....
Has he gone for the older woman again???
Not this time, though evidence suggests he fell asleep before doing the deed.

I just had a look.. he might well have been set up.. but he is a fool if he was.. Colleen will want to know why he was on the hotel in.the first place.

Sandpit · July 2021

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Not restaurants, pubs, cafes and bars for the simple reason that most of them do not have door staff and if people are just walking into the building then there's no way to really check the ID at that point.

Anywhere that door staff or ticketing is another question. That could certainly from your list include cinemas, theatres, clubs, venues, gyms etc

I'm against Covid Passports in principle but I'm so fed up with antivaxxers that I think screw them for one winter. Lets bring this in, with a one winter sunset clause, and lockup antivaxxers not the nation.

@Gnud of this site referring to "antivaxx" as Hate Speech and holding up Andrew Wakefield as a positive example has really pissed me off: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3498387#Comment_3498387 - this is the kind of BS that sane people are having to deal with.
Ultimately the policy isn't about actually having them it's about getting people into the vaccination centres. If we get to 96% of adults then there's no need for them.

So everyone who really does want them will be screaming from the rooftops about the U-TURN, and everyone who doesn’t want them (the public facing businesses) will face the implementation costs anyway?

Best to go with a hard campaign - “Don’t Die Of Ingorance” was a good slogan - pointing to impartial government and private sources encouraging vaccination and dispeling myths.

A city near me has implemented “show your phone to go to the shops”, and everyone is avoiding it!

Leon · July 2021

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:
On preferred London locales, I am happy to say that - prisons aside (I was innocent, so it seems fair) - I have only lived in a "1"

ie a postcode ending in "1"

I've lived in

NW1
W1
WC1
N1
and
E1

I'd quite like to try SW1 and S1 but there isn't an S1 (why?)
From a postcode perspective (and including my current London flat), I've lived in:

W1
WC1
NW3
W2
E1

So, that's a pretty similar list.

UGH

You lived in a "2"

dodrade · July 2021

Why are so many Trump supporters anti-vaxxers given the man himself (for all his faults) is not one of them?

Sandpit · July 2021

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...
A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.
I still think a lot of the unvaccinated are not antivaxxers (although some are at least mildly sceptical) but have fallen outside the system, which is designed for people who are known to the NHS and who can arrange time off to get jabbed. For instance, my own GP registration had been mistakenly purged and had to be reinstated. If I'd not been proactive but had waited for the call, as HMG urged, I'd still be waiting. There must be many who've never even registered.

It has recently been reported many jockeys are not vaccinated because they do not know where they will be more than a couple of days in advance. This again must apply to many workers, and there will be many more who would need to take time off work. Not everyone can claim to be WFH as long as their mobile phone is on.
Yep. There’s also two groups I’ve mentioned previously:

1. Foreigners not in the NHS system. Maybe tourists who got stuck, or overstayers working outside the regular economy.

2. Brits who were vaccinated abroad, and need to find a way to register these vaccines with the NHS.
You forgot 3) Brits that are fully vaxxed and want nothing to do with the illiberal vax passport especially when they start talking about schemes to monitor what you eat.
What has that got to do with the compilation of statistics, or encouraging the last few?

If your group have all been jabbed, then fantastic!
Because you are saying the advocation and implementation of vax ports will encourage the last few

No I didn’t. I hate the idea as much as you do.

Any system needs to annoy the unvaccinated ONLY, not inconvenience everyone else.

Pagan2 · July 2021

Sandpit said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...
A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.
I still think a lot of the unvaccinated are not antivaxxers (although some are at least mildly sceptical) but have fallen outside the system, which is designed for people who are known to the NHS and who can arrange time off to get jabbed. For instance, my own GP registration had been mistakenly purged and had to be reinstated. If I'd not been proactive but had waited for the call, as HMG urged, I'd still be waiting. There must be many who've never even registered.

It has recently been reported many jockeys are not vaccinated because they do not know where they will be more than a couple of days in advance. This again must apply to many workers, and there will be many more who would need to take time off work. Not everyone can claim to be WFH as long as their mobile phone is on.
Yep. There’s also two groups I’ve mentioned previously:

1. Foreigners not in the NHS system. Maybe tourists who got stuck, or overstayers working outside the regular economy.

2. Brits who were vaccinated abroad, and need to find a way to register these vaccines with the NHS.
You forgot 3) Brits that are fully vaxxed and want nothing to do with the illiberal vax passport especially when they start talking about schemes to monitor what you eat.
What has that got to do with the compilation of statistics, or encouraging the last few?

If your group have all been jabbed, then fantastic!
Because you are saying the advocation and implementation of vax ports will encourage the last few
No I didn’t. I hate the idea as much as you do.

Then apologies I misunderstood

williamglenn · July 2021

Stuartinromford said:

kle4 said:
Thank goodness the French hesistancy was not as the polling indicated.
People who know France better than I do were always pretty sanguine about that- they expected both the initial moaning and the acceptance of the jab when offered.

Besides, the French vaccination ads are very persuasive;

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210708/france-expanding-its-sexy-advertising-campaign-for-covid-vaccines/

France is doing well but their numbers are flattered by the number of 12-17 year olds they’re vaccinating. Their vaccination rate for older people is still lower than ours.

rcs1000 · July 2021

alex_ said:
If that US figure is really true then we should be seeing a massive surge in take-up over the next few weeks. I’m doubtful...

The US is at 68% of adults with at least one dose, so doesn't that rather suggest they are approaching their limit?

gettingbetter · July 2021

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Not restaurants, pubs, cafes and bars for the simple reason that most of them do not have door staff and if people are just walking into the building then there's no way to really check the ID at that point.

Anywhere that door staff or ticketing is another question. That could certainly from your list include cinemas, theatres, clubs, venues, gyms etc

I'm against Covid Passports in principle but I'm so fed up with antivaxxers that I think screw them for one winter. Lets bring this in, with a one winter sunset clause, and lockup antivaxxers not the nation.

@Gnud of this site referring to "antivaxx" as Hate Speech and holding up Andrew Wakefield as a positive example has really pissed me off: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3498387#Comment_3498387 - this is the kind of BS that sane people are having to deal with.
Ultimately the policy isn't about actually having them it's about getting people into the vaccination centres. If we get to 96% of adults then there's no need for them.
True but if the policy isn't implementable then it won't drive people forwards since you'll just get arguments and retreat from the policy.

Make it so that any premise with door staff or ticketed entry requires them to check vaxport status, with a sunset clause for Spring 2021.
It's easy to implement, make it presentabile on payment and incorporate the QR scan into POS systems. As I said, it's a completely awful idea and horrible way to live, however, we need to get another 4.3m people vaccinated in the UK and it will need some pretty tough measures to achieve.

How about some TV ads and billboards?

rcs1000 · July 2021

williamglenn said:

Stuartinromford said:

kle4 said:
Thank goodness the French hesistancy was not as the polling indicated.
People who know France better than I do were always pretty sanguine about that- they expected both the initial moaning and the acceptance of the jab when offered.

Besides, the French vaccination ads are very persuasive;

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210708/france-expanding-its-sexy-advertising-campaign-for-covid-vaccines/
France is doing well but their numbers are flattered by the number of 12-17 year olds they’re vaccinating. Their vaccination rate for older people is still lower than ours.

It is, and that's why I prefer to use the "percent of adults" number, so as to compare like-with-like.

Worth noting, though, that France is only at about 30% of 12-17 year olds, so it probably only adds maybe two points to total "vaccinated as percent of the population".

Sandpit · July 2021

rcs1000 said:

alex_ said:
If that US figure is really true then we should be seeing a massive surge in take-up over the next few weeks. I’m doubtful...
The US is at 68% of adults with at least one dose, so doesn't that rather suggest they are approaching their limit?

Massive levelling-off in the US. They need to find several plans to tackle the different types of unvaccinated.

U.K. is also definitely levelling off.

UAE outlier is possibly explained by a very transient resident population.

stodge · July 2021

Evening all

Vaccination numbers from New Zealand:

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data

Auckland running behind schedule, most other areas ahead of plan. 925,000 first doses and 628,000 second doses.

Philip_Thompson · July 2021

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...
A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.
I still think a lot of the unvaccinated are not antivaxxers (although some are at least mildly sceptical) but have fallen outside the system, which is designed for people who are known to the NHS and who can arrange time off to get jabbed. For instance, my own GP registration had been mistakenly purged and had to be reinstated. If I'd not been proactive but had waited for the call, as HMG urged, I'd still be waiting. There must be many who've never even registered.

It has recently been reported many jockeys are not vaccinated because they do not know where they will be more than a couple of days in advance. This again must apply to many workers, and there will be many more who would need to take time off work. Not everyone can claim to be WFH as long as their mobile phone is on.
Yep. There’s also two groups I’ve mentioned previously:

1. Foreigners not in the NHS system. Maybe tourists who got stuck, or overstayers working outside the regular economy.

2. Brits who were vaccinated abroad, and need to find a way to register these vaccines with the NHS.
You forgot 3) Brits that are fully vaxxed and want nothing to do with the illiberal vax passport especially when they start talking about schemes to monitor what you eat.
What has that got to do with the compilation of statistics, or encouraging the last few?

If your group have all been jabbed, then fantastic!
Because you are saying the advocation and implementation of vax ports will encourage the last few

Because they will.

rcs1000 · July 2021

Sandpit said:

rcs1000 said:

alex_ said:
If that US figure is really true then we should be seeing a massive surge in take-up over the next few weeks. I’m doubtful...
The US is at 68% of adults with at least one dose, so doesn't that rather suggest they are approaching their limit?
Massive levelling-off in the US. They need to find several plans to tackle the different types of unvaccinated.

Does the UAE number include quite a few vaccine tourists, who've flown in to get jabbed?

TheScreamingEagles · July 2021

gettingbetter said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Not restaurants, pubs, cafes and bars for the simple reason that most of them do not have door staff and if people are just walking into the building then there's no way to really check the ID at that point.

Anywhere that door staff or ticketing is another question. That could certainly from your list include cinemas, theatres, clubs, venues, gyms etc

I'm against Covid Passports in principle but I'm so fed up with antivaxxers that I think screw them for one winter. Lets bring this in, with a one winter sunset clause, and lockup antivaxxers not the nation.

@Gnud of this site referring to "antivaxx" as Hate Speech and holding up Andrew Wakefield as a positive example has really pissed me off: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3498387#Comment_3498387 - this is the kind of BS that sane people are having to deal with.
Ultimately the policy isn't about actually having them it's about getting people into the vaccination centres. If we get to 96% of adults then there's no need for them.
True but if the policy isn't implementable then it won't drive people forwards since you'll just get arguments and retreat from the policy.

Make it so that any premise with door staff or ticketed entry requires them to check vaxport status, with a sunset clause for Spring 2021.
It's easy to implement, make it presentabile on payment and incorporate the QR scan into POS systems. As I said, it's a completely awful idea and horrible way to live, however, we need to get another 4.3m people vaccinated in the UK and it will need some pretty tough measures to achieve.
How about some TV ads and billboards?

Hire the people behind the 'Don't die of ignorance' AIDS campaign.

MaxPB · July 2021

gettingbetter said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Not restaurants, pubs, cafes and bars for the simple reason that most of them do not have door staff and if people are just walking into the building then there's no way to really check the ID at that point.

Anywhere that door staff or ticketing is another question. That could certainly from your list include cinemas, theatres, clubs, venues, gyms etc

I'm against Covid Passports in principle but I'm so fed up with antivaxxers that I think screw them for one winter. Lets bring this in, with a one winter sunset clause, and lockup antivaxxers not the nation.

@Gnud of this site referring to "antivaxx" as Hate Speech and holding up Andrew Wakefield as a positive example has really pissed me off: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3498387#Comment_3498387 - this is the kind of BS that sane people are having to deal with.
Ultimately the policy isn't about actually having them it's about getting people into the vaccination centres. If we get to 96% of adults then there's no need for them.
True but if the policy isn't implementable then it won't drive people forwards since you'll just get arguments and retreat from the policy.

Make it so that any premise with door staff or ticketed entry requires them to check vaxport status, with a sunset clause for Spring 2021.
It's easy to implement, make it presentabile on payment and incorporate the QR scan into POS systems. As I said, it's a completely awful idea and horrible way to live, however, we need to get another 4.3m people vaccinated in the UK and it will need some pretty tough measures to achieve.
How about some TV ads and billboards?

Do that too. Do as many things as possible. The numbers aren't small as everyone wants to pretend. We need to convince at least another 4m adults to get jabbed twice before October to ensure we hit herd immunity. We have the vaccines, we just need willing people. As others have suggested, a round of helicopter money of say £100-300 given to everyone on October 14th for all people who have two jab+two weeks on that day advertised far and wide would be a cheap policy compared the alternative of a winter lockdown to ensure the NHS doesn't fall over with COVID+Flu.

rcs1000 · July 2021

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:
On preferred London locales, I am happy to say that - prisons aside (I was innocent, so it seems fair) - I have only lived in a "1"

ie a postcode ending in "1"

I've lived in

NW1
W1
WC1
N1
and
E1

I'd quite like to try SW1 and S1 but there isn't an S1 (why?)
From a postcode perspective (and including my current London flat), I've lived in:

W1
WC1
NW3
W2
E1

So, that's a pretty similar list.
UGH

You lived in a "2"

And a "3".

And if we ever move back to London, we might live in an "8".

Pagan2 · July 2021

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...
A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.
I still think a lot of the unvaccinated are not antivaxxers (although some are at least mildly sceptical) but have fallen outside the system, which is designed for people who are known to the NHS and who can arrange time off to get jabbed. For instance, my own GP registration had been mistakenly purged and had to be reinstated. If I'd not been proactive but had waited for the call, as HMG urged, I'd still be waiting. There must be many who've never even registered.

It has recently been reported many jockeys are not vaccinated because they do not know where they will be more than a couple of days in advance. This again must apply to many workers, and there will be many more who would need to take time off work. Not everyone can claim to be WFH as long as their mobile phone is on.
Yep. There’s also two groups I’ve mentioned previously:

1. Foreigners not in the NHS system. Maybe tourists who got stuck, or overstayers working outside the regular economy.

2. Brits who were vaccinated abroad, and need to find a way to register these vaccines with the NHS.
You forgot 3) Brits that are fully vaxxed and want nothing to do with the illiberal vax passport especially when they start talking about schemes to monitor what you eat.
What has that got to do with the compilation of statistics, or encouraging the last few?

If your group have all been jabbed, then fantastic!
Because you are saying the advocation and implementation of vax ports will encourage the last few
Because they will.

At far too high a price

alex_ · July 2021

rcs1000 said:

alex_ said:
If that US figure is really true then we should be seeing a massive surge in take-up over the next few weeks. I’m doubtful...
The US is at 68% of adults with at least one dose, so doesn't that rather suggest they are approaching their limit?

Yes, I misread their stats.

rcs1000 · July 2021

As an aside, when will the government get rid of the ridiculous illberal red book that contains records of childrens immunisations. It's appalling that children are being denied an education or summer camps based on a vaxport.

noneoftheabove · July 2021

rcs1000 said:

Sandpit said:

rcs1000 said:

alex_ said:
If that US figure is really true then we should be seeing a massive surge in take-up over the next few weeks. I’m doubtful...
The US is at 68% of adults with at least one dose, so doesn't that rather suggest they are approaching their limit?
Massive levelling-off in the US. They need to find several plans to tackle the different types of unvaccinated.

Does the UAE number include quite a few vaccine tourists, who've flown in to get jabbed?

The very high numbers might be from booster shots.

alex_ · July 2021

Sandpit said:

rcs1000 said:

alex_ said:
If that US figure is really true then we should be seeing a massive surge in take-up over the next few weeks. I’m doubtful...
The US is at 68% of adults with at least one dose, so doesn't that rather suggest they are approaching their limit?
Massive levelling-off in the US. They need to find several plans to tackle the different types of unvaccinated.

U.K. is also definitely levelling off.

UAE outlier is possibly explained by a very transient resident population.

Perhaps some sort of reverse psychology advertising/“encouragement”...

williamglenn · July 2021

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Stuartinromford said:

kle4 said:
Thank goodness the French hesistancy was not as the polling indicated.
People who know France better than I do were always pretty sanguine about that- they expected both the initial moaning and the acceptance of the jab when offered.

Besides, the French vaccination ads are very persuasive;

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210708/france-expanding-its-sexy-advertising-campaign-for-covid-vaccines/
France is doing well but their numbers are flattered by the number of 12-17 year olds they’re vaccinating. Their vaccination rate for older people is still lower than ours.
It is, and that's why I prefer to use the "percent of adults" number, so as to compare like-with-like.

Worth noting, though, that France is only at about 30% of 12-17 year olds, so it probably only adds maybe two points to total "vaccinated as percent of the population".

But that’s all been in the last few weeks so is what is propping up their first dose numbers. They might end up plateauing at the same level as Germany.

MaxPB · July 2021

Sandpit said:

rcs1000 said:

alex_ said:
If that US figure is really true then we should be seeing a massive surge in take-up over the next few weeks. I’m doubtful...
The US is at 68% of adults with at least one dose, so doesn't that rather suggest they are approaching their limit?
Massive levelling-off in the US. They need to find several plans to tackle the different types of unvaccinated.

U.K. is also definitely levelling off.

UAE outlier is possibly explained by a very transient resident population.

That's due to 8 week policy more than anything else. We're going to do around 10-11m doses in the next 8 weeks as a minimum number. If the government manages to convince another 2-4m people to get jabbed as we need to then that will be 15-18m doses in that time.

Pagan2 · July 2021

rcs1000 said:
As an aside, when will the government get rid of the ridiculous illberal red book that contains records of childrens immunisations. It's appalling that children are being denied an education or summer camps based on a vaxport.

Never got asked for vaccine certs when my kid went to school in the 90's and 00's. Link to it happening now as I know a few anti mmr parents

Sandpit · July 2021

rcs1000 said:

Sandpit said:

rcs1000 said:

alex_ said:
If that US figure is really true then we should be seeing a massive surge in take-up over the next few weeks. I’m doubtful...
The US is at 68% of adults with at least one dose, so doesn't that rather suggest they are approaching their limit?
Massive levelling-off in the US. They need to find several plans to tackle the different types of unvaccinated.

Does the UAE number include quite a few vaccine tourists, who've flown in to get jabbed?

Officially a few Chinese plane loads of vaccine tourists, getting the Chinese vaccine.

Also a lot of new business startups registered, which may include quite a few of the world’s wealthy becoming resident to sit out the pandemic and get vaccinated.

IMO the biggest cause of the outlier is simply a transient resident population - there may have been 10m here last year, and 10m here this year, but they might add up to 11m individuals.

Also, strong support from the leaders and imams, and tight regulation of social media!

rcs1000 · July 2021

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Stuartinromford said:

kle4 said:
Thank goodness the French hesistancy was not as the polling indicated.
People who know France better than I do were always pretty sanguine about that- they expected both the initial moaning and the acceptance of the jab when offered.

Besides, the French vaccination ads are very persuasive;

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210708/france-expanding-its-sexy-advertising-campaign-for-covid-vaccines/
France is doing well but their numbers are flattered by the number of 12-17 year olds they’re vaccinating. Their vaccination rate for older people is still lower than ours.
It is, and that's why I prefer to use the "percent of adults" number, so as to compare like-with-like.

Worth noting, though, that France is only at about 30% of 12-17 year olds, so it probably only adds maybe two points to total "vaccinated as percent of the population".
But that’s all been in the last few weeks so is what is propping up their first dose numbers. They might end up plateauing at the same level as Germany.

France?

They're ahead of Germany as far as percent of adults (72%) jabbed, and they're doing more first jabs of adults per day currently.

So, I think we can reasonably assume they're not going to plateau at German levels given they're currently ahead of them.

MaxPB · July 2021

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:
On preferred London locales, I am happy to say that - prisons aside (I was innocent, so it seems fair) - I have only lived in a "1"

ie a postcode ending in "1"

I've lived in

NW1
W1
WC1
N1
and
E1

I'd quite like to try SW1 and S1 but there isn't an S1 (why?)
From a postcode perspective (and including my current London flat), I've lived in:

W1
WC1
NW3
W2
E1

So, that's a pretty similar list.
UGH

You lived in a "2"
And a "3".

And if we ever move back to London, we might live in an "8".

Highly recommend the "8" assuming it's the NW bit. St John's Wood is the top of my list of London places I've lived.

1. St John's Wood
2. Hampstead
3. Bloomsbury
4. Chalk Farm
(5. Winchmore Hill - my parent's house)
6. Shepherd's Bush
(7. Hackney - the council estate where I grew up)

So far Fortis Green will probably replace my parents place in 5th. It actually feels almost identical to where they live now, except their house is bigger.

FrancisUrquhart · July 2021

Talking of anti-vaxxers, youtube seems over the past few days to have decided to start recommending i wouldn't say outright antivax videos, but they definitely seem to be weird nutter anti-lockdown, anti-mask, the government is controlling us all stuff....i have no idea where they have come from, given my covid related viewing is the opposite of that kind of content.

MattW · July 2021

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:
We're 5% away from that YouGov figure at the moment. It's going to take us 30-40 days to get there unless the government really ramps up the vaccine passport narrative and extends it to more everyday life places like cafés and restaurants. I actually think they should do both and get every single minister out and sell the policy of having a hard October 1st date for introducing them for restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas, theatres, cafés, clubs, sporting venues of all sizes, gyms and anywhere else where people pay to congregate indoors. Make that 1st October date really public and shout it from the rooftops, shout at the 5m 18-39 year olds who haven't had it yet and get them to do it ASAP.

It's a really shitty way of doing it but we need a way to break the last 10% and get to 96-98% of adults. There's just too much inertia among the under 40s who will get it "one day" but won't define when "one day" actually is but they actually don't mind getting it done.
Good luck forcing the groups that are refusing the vaccine..... It's a narrative that no-one wants...
A lot of them will get it if they are nudged into it. There will always be a hardcore that will refuse.
I still think a lot of the unvaccinated are not antivaxxers (although some are at least mildly sceptical) but have fallen outside the system, which is designed for people who are known to the NHS and who can arrange time off to get jabbed. For instance, my own GP registration had been mistakenly purged and had to be reinstated. If I'd not been proactive but had waited for the call, as HMG urged, I'd still be waiting. There must be many who've never even registered.

It has recently been reported many jockeys are not vaccinated because they do not know where they will be more than a couple of days in advance. This again must apply to many workers, and there will be many more who would need to take time off work. Not everyone can claim to be WFH as long as their mobile phone is on.
Yep. There’s also two groups I’ve mentioned previously:

1. Foreigners not in the NHS system. Maybe tourists who got stuck, or overstayers working outside the regular economy.

2. Brits who were vaccinated abroad, and need to find a way to register these vaccines with the NHS.

Heard a story today of an England / Wales coordination problem from a friend:

We live in England but my son is studying in Wales and had his first jab there 8 weeks ago. He's now home for the summer and working in Cambridgeshire. Today he received an appointment letter for his second jab in.. Wales...So we try to book an appointment a wee bit closer to home...

Problem is NHS England have no record of him being vaccinated at all so when he tries to book online it offers him two appointments and no way to ensure he gets the same vaccine.

Worse, on the BBC tonight is a story about three Scottish students who had one jab in England and the other in Scotland. They are having travel problems because neither country thinks they have had two jabs. England thinks they have only had their first, Scotland thinks they have only had their second !!

northern_monkey · July 2021

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:
On preferred London locales, I am happy to say that - prisons aside (I was innocent, so it seems fair) - I have only lived in a "1"

ie a postcode ending in "1"

I've lived in

NW1
W1
WC1
N1
and
E1

I'd quite like to try SW1 and S1 but there isn't an S1 (why?)
From a postcode perspective (and including my current London flat), I've lived in:

W1
WC1
NW3
W2
E1

So, that's a pretty similar list.
UGH

You lived in a "2"

I’m 43 and I’ve never been to London, unless you count Wembley Arena to see the Beastie Boys in 1999. I feel like I should go, my Grandad was from East Ham, but I just never seem to quite get round to it.

MaxPB · July 2021

Also, update on London night life. It felt very familiar last night. Once the dance floor opened at 11 we danced until about 3am to various music from the 80s and 90s. The place was packed, absolutely great feeling. Not so much today, though.

alex_ · July 2021

MaxPB said:
Also, update on London night life. It felt very familiar last night. Once the dance floor opened at 11 we danced until about 3am to various music from the 80s and 90s. The place was packed, absolutely great feeling. Not so much today, though.

Sounds like an improvement on normal if they’ve got rid of all the post 2000 sh*t!

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Some very encouraging polling worldwide and especially in the UK – politicalbetting.com

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