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By signing the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago the UK made Brexit hard if not impossible – politi

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,598
    pigeon said:

    Gnud said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    An excellent commentary as always from Mike Smithson. These thoughts are from one who supported Brexit but wanted 'Norway for Now' in the belief that a long term process was essential.

    1) If Brexit and GFA are actually incompatible then Remain incomprehensibly failed to say so, and failed to say what the limits on Brexit would be. That is because they are not incompatible.

    2) The UK and the RoI are sovereign states (the sort with seats at the UN and armies).

    3) The EU is an extensive trade association, and not a state.

    4) If it is realistic to say that the UK can bend its sovereignty red lines to the extent of separating the GB and the NI internal market as the protocol requires, it is realistic to say that the EU can bend its trade association rules to contain an anomaly which protects the interests of one of their members, the RoI, and those of a friendly neighbour with equivalently high standards, the UK.

    5) Which obvious truth is why Remain did not campaign on the basis that a (non EFTA) Brexit was impossible.

    Precisely, the dispute is between the UK and Ireland, not the UK and EU. Ireland could disengage from the Single Market, join a customs union with the UK - no land border, no sea border - job done.

    The Irish saw the trap on day 1 and have marshalled their considerable lobbying power in both the EU and the US to avoid having to choose between the Single Market and a soft land border. The EU doesn't care as long as its rules are followed, but Ireland won't compromise on this point, ever.

    So what will happen if this Brexiteer government decides to tear up both the Protocol and the TCA? This is a significantly greater than zero risk. They will lose Nissan, which is something they seem to care about, but once it's gone it's gone, and they have pretty much wrecked everything else anyway, so why not?

    I am guessing Ireland will go with the Single Market and cut the North loose. But it will be a grim time for everyone, especially those in Northern Ireland.
    The UK government could have left without a deal. That would have left the EU with the problem of how to deal with the land border in the island of Ireland since in principle they would have had to close it to protect the SM, and we wouldn't because we would have had insufficient interest in protecting the border.

    We didn't. Meaning that Boris accepted the Ireland fudge which all parties knew could not work in the long term. Not least because it is obvious to all that unionist extremists in NI would not accept for ever the NI/GB divergence without resorting to civil unrest.

    So the problem landed mostly on us rather than them.

    Boris's tactic was to accept the only way of leaving with a deal, and wait; hoping that in due course it may become a joint problem and not just ours. Hence the willingness to break with an international treaty. He has no alternative in these unique circumstances.

    The EU wants the UK to break the red lines of our internal market. We want the EU to break their SM red lines. Both sides refuse to be the first to suggest an internal barrier. That is about the only hold Boris has.

    The thing is we've got our cake and are eating it. Britain has a deal, and failing to implement the NI Protocol in the way the EU wanted it to exposes their bluff - they're not going to put up a border in the NI/Eire border, we're not going to put up an Irish Sea one, and they're not going to tear up the agreement because doing so means they will have to put up an NI/Eire border.

    They have no chips to hold except "you agreed to this", which is not very meaningful in the circumstances. Especially since they agreed to Article 16 which is part of the agreement and can be invoked if need be - and if it is then what can they do without making their problems worse?

    We hold all the cards.
    Until the day when the Dublin government, caught between Britain and the EU, says there are only two workable options: a hard border or a united Ireland.
    Surely a hard border is not an option because Peace Process, and a united Ireland is unlikely because a majority would have to be found for it in the North *AND* the South would have to be prepared to take on the cost of funding the North.

    Great Britain is about thirteen times bigger than the Republic of Ireland. The financial burden of reunification upon the latter would be very heavy.
    Yes, but it would be like South Korea absorbing the North, or the unification of Germany. Cost wouldn't be a deal breaker.

    I think though that there would have to be devolution within the ROI, much as there has been in the UK.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    First game of snooker since February 2020 this evening.

    And I won 3-0.

    But - the club I used to play at has gone bust in the interim.

    Well as long as they didn’t destroy the table...
    I don’t know whether they have or not, I was playing in a different club.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,208
    UK cases by specimen date

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,208
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,208
    England PCR positivity

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  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 902

    pigeon said:

    Gnud said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    An excellent commentary as always from Mike Smithson. These thoughts are from one who supported Brexit but wanted 'Norway for Now' in the belief that a long term process was essential.

    1) If Brexit and GFA are actually incompatible then Remain incomprehensibly failed to say so, and failed to say what the limits on Brexit would be. That is because they are not incompatible.

    2) The UK and the RoI are sovereign states (the sort with seats at the UN and armies).

    3) The EU is an extensive trade association, and not a state.

    4) If it is realistic to say that the UK can bend its sovereignty red lines to the extent of separating the GB and the NI internal market as the protocol requires, it is realistic to say that the EU can bend its trade association rules to contain an anomaly which protects the interests of one of their members, the RoI, and those of a friendly neighbour with equivalently high standards, the UK.

    5) Which obvious truth is why Remain did not campaign on the basis that a (non EFTA) Brexit was impossible.

    Precisely, the dispute is between the UK and Ireland, not the UK and EU. Ireland could disengage from the Single Market, join a customs union with the UK - no land border, no sea border - job done.

    The Irish saw the trap on day 1 and have marshalled their considerable lobbying power in both the EU and the US to avoid having to choose between the Single Market and a soft land border. The EU doesn't care as long as its rules are followed, but Ireland won't compromise on this point, ever.

    So what will happen if this Brexiteer government decides to tear up both the Protocol and the TCA? This is a significantly greater than zero risk. They will lose Nissan, which is something they seem to care about, but once it's gone it's gone, and they have pretty much wrecked everything else anyway, so why not?

    I am guessing Ireland will go with the Single Market and cut the North loose. But it will be a grim time for everyone, especially those in Northern Ireland.
    The UK government could have left without a deal. That would have left the EU with the problem of how to deal with the land border in the island of Ireland since in principle they would have had to close it to protect the SM, and we wouldn't because we would have had insufficient interest in protecting the border.

    We didn't. Meaning that Boris accepted the Ireland fudge which all parties knew could not work in the long term. Not least because it is obvious to all that unionist extremists in NI would not accept for ever the NI/GB divergence without resorting to civil unrest.

    So the problem landed mostly on us rather than them.

    Boris's tactic was to accept the only way of leaving with a deal, and wait; hoping that in due course it may become a joint problem and not just ours. Hence the willingness to break with an international treaty. He has no alternative in these unique circumstances.

    The EU wants the UK to break the red lines of our internal market. We want the EU to break their SM red lines. Both sides refuse to be the first to suggest an internal barrier. That is about the only hold Boris has.

    The thing is we've got our cake and are eating it. Britain has a deal, and failing to implement the NI Protocol in the way the EU wanted it to exposes their bluff - they're not going to put up a border in the NI/Eire border, we're not going to put up an Irish Sea one, and they're not going to tear up the agreement because doing so means they will have to put up an NI/Eire border.

    They have no chips to hold except "you agreed to this", which is not very meaningful in the circumstances. Especially since they agreed to Article 16 which is part of the agreement and can be invoked if need be - and if it is then what can they do without making their problems worse?

    We hold all the cards.
    Until the day when the Dublin government, caught between Britain and the EU, says there are only two workable options: a hard border or a united Ireland.
    Surely a hard border is not an option because Peace Process, and a united Ireland is unlikely because a majority would have to be found for it in the North *AND* the South would have to be prepared to take on the cost of funding the North.

    Great Britain is about thirteen times bigger than the Republic of Ireland. The financial burden of reunification upon the latter would be very heavy.
    It's not the poor, agrarian economy of old, whose main export was navvies. Ireland now has a higher per-capita GDP than Northern Ireland, and could write its own aid cheques from America.
    Reunification would increase the population of the Irish state by something like 40% at a stroke, and the North is substantially less well off than the South. It would be a heavy burden. And the notion that it would be magicked away by gifts from the American Government (because we all remember how the US bailed out Ireland during the Eurozone crisis, don't we?) sounds somewhat less than entirely convincing.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,216

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I've been known to walk in the area. ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Leon said:

    Why isn't there a Scottish team in the Hundred, or indeed an Irish one?

    There are enough fans in both countries to make a decent team

    I've changed my mind, I reckon the Hundred might work, but they should have mostly kept the T20 format AND had the new teams and the pzazz

    The lack of a West Country team, a Home Counties team and a North Eastern team is a more stupid oversight.

    Ireland, the explanation is simple - there is a separate Full Member board with its own competitions so there is no way the Hundred could operate there. It would be a bit like having an IPL team from Karachi.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,208
    UK case summary

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,493

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    Ooh, me too! Both excellent pubs.
    Nottingham has a really good set of pubs. Or at least did back then - I presume it still does.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,598

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    Yes, I have been there, albeit 20 years ago.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,208
    UK hospitals

    ximage
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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,208
    UK Deaths

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    UK R

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why isn't there a Scottish team in the Hundred, or indeed an Irish one?

    There are enough fans in both countries to make a decent team

    I've changed my mind, I reckon the Hundred might work, but they should have mostly kept the T20 format AND had the new teams and the pzazz

    The lack of a West Country team, a Home Counties team and a North Eastern team is a more stupid oversight.

    Ireland, the explanation is simple - there is a separate Full Member board with its own competitions so there is no way the Hundred could operate there. It would be a bit like having an IPL team from Karachi.
    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629
    alex_ said:

    Great day out in London today, it’s not going anywhere.

    @Leon take heart from Jurassic Park.

    “Life (in London) will find a way...”

    Ian Malcolm (Jeff Goldblum): God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs...
    Dr. Ellie Sattler (Laura Dern): Dinosaurs eat man. Woman inherits the earth...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,208
    Age related data

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    Vaccinations

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,208
    Case rate change

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  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 24,566

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I always find both Sleaford and Grantham a disappointment. I grew up in Newark which is a town steeped in history and one which has retained both its original street plan and many or its original buildings although it did also knock down and redevelop some streets which today would be massively popular in an historic town.

    The trouble is that both Sleaford and Grantham have pretty much gutted their historic centres. You can't even blame the bombing as both got through the war with not much in the way of German attacks. It was all due to post war planning which has ripped the soul out of both towns. I would always recommend Newark or Stamford over either Sleaford or Grantham. Much nicer towns to walk around.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 24,566
    edited July 22
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why isn't there a Scottish team in the Hundred, or indeed an Irish one?

    There are enough fans in both countries to make a decent team

    I've changed my mind, I reckon the Hundred might work, but they should have mostly kept the T20 format AND had the new teams and the pzazz

    The lack of a West Country team, a Home Counties team and a North Eastern team is a more stupid oversight.

    Ireland, the explanation is simple - there is a separate Full Member board with its own competitions so there is no way the Hundred could operate there. It would be a bit like having an IPL team from Karachi.
    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?
    And yet the T20 provides just that without all the stupid tinkering.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,271

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I've been known to walk in the area. ;)
    The railway station is lovely and classic material. A bit like old school small rural town stations from the 50s/60s until the nasty LAB government 1964-1970 closed all the railways. Never forget that it was LAB who implemented most of Beeching closures 👿😠
  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,493
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why isn't there a Scottish team in the Hundred, or indeed an Irish one?

    There are enough fans in both countries to make a decent team

    I've changed my mind, I reckon the Hundred might work, but they should have mostly kept the T20 format AND had the new teams and the pzazz

    The lack of a West Country team, a Home Counties team and a North Eastern team is a more stupid oversight.

    Ireland, the explanation is simple - there is a separate Full Member board with its own competitions so there is no way the Hundred could operate there. It would be a bit like having an IPL team from Karachi.
    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?
    Except we already had that with the county T20. It was perfect.
    And even though it's the same ground, 2 miles from my house, I'd rather support Lancashire than Manchester. A bit of history to Lancashire.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,742
    OT lots of stories have just appeared about keyless cars being stolen. Is it national car theft awareness day or something? Keep 'em peeled, and keep your fobs in a Faraday cage, thus making keyless entry more hassle than having to stick a key in the lock.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why isn't there a Scottish team in the Hundred, or indeed an Irish one?

    There are enough fans in both countries to make a decent team

    I've changed my mind, I reckon the Hundred might work, but they should have mostly kept the T20 format AND had the new teams and the pzazz

    The lack of a West Country team, a Home Counties team and a North Eastern team is a more stupid oversight.

    Ireland, the explanation is simple - there is a separate Full Member board with its own competitions so there is no way the Hundred could operate there. It would be a bit like having an IPL team from Karachi.
    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?
    And yet the 20:20 provides just that without all the stupid tinkering.
    Yes, I entirely agree. They should have kept T20 and just added the new teams and wowness - as I said below

    I understand there was some legal-political reason they couldn't
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    So, somebody tell me what the deal is with barbers? (there was something of a discussion of this the other day). It appears they are facing something of an existential crisis because of the large number of people who appear to have discovered that they can cut their own hair and/or have decided that due to WFH they need never get a decent haircut ever again.

    And i’m currently sitting in a pub looking across the road at three barber/hair shops within 50m of each other. Two of which I’m sure weren’t there 12 months ago.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    edited July 22
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why isn't there a Scottish team in the Hundred, or indeed an Irish one?

    There are enough fans in both countries to make a decent team

    I've changed my mind, I reckon the Hundred might work, but they should have mostly kept the T20 format AND had the new teams and the pzazz

    The lack of a West Country team, a Home Counties team and a North Eastern team is a more stupid oversight.

    Ireland, the explanation is simple - there is a separate Full Member board with its own competitions so there is no way the Hundred could operate there. It would be a bit like having an IPL team from Karachi.
    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?
    The problem is, that was already being done with T20 cricket. Which, due to the larger number of teams, was selling a hell of a lot more tickets than the Hundred is.

    The mistake they have made - and it is a big mistake - is to look at India and try to replicate that. A smarter move would have been to try to replicate the Big Bash League, which actually created extra teams compared to the Shield sides to ensure wider coverage when it was launched.

    So you could have had 20 franchise teams - extra ones for Liverpool and Edinburgh being the obvious choice - playing in a round robin stage of four groups of five, then a play off of the top two from each group, and then a final from the top two of those.

    Instead, they have infuriated all current cricket followers, left huge swathes of the country unrepresented, come up with a new format nobody understands or wants and smashed the traditional cricket system to it while publicly trashing it at every turn.

    Even Ratner wasn’t that stupid.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,566

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why isn't there a Scottish team in the Hundred, or indeed an Irish one?

    There are enough fans in both countries to make a decent team

    I've changed my mind, I reckon the Hundred might work, but they should have mostly kept the T20 format AND had the new teams and the pzazz

    The lack of a West Country team, a Home Counties team and a North Eastern team is a more stupid oversight.

    Ireland, the explanation is simple - there is a separate Full Member board with its own competitions so there is no way the Hundred could operate there. It would be a bit like having an IPL team from Karachi.
    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?
    And yet the T20 provides just that without all the stupid tinkering.
    This was always going to be the issue. I’d prefer the t20 to run on Friday nights and Saturdays through the season with the 4 day games starting on sundays. Best nights for raucous fun, with the old boys coming to the long form during th3 week.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    OT lots of stories have just appeared about keyless cars being stolen. Is it national car theft awareness day or something? Keep 'em peeled, and keep your fobs in a Faraday cage, thus making keyless entry more hassle than having to stick a key in the lock.

    I have never understood the attraction of keyless cars. What’s so hard about pressing a button or sticking a bit of metal in a lock?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,493

    OT lots of stories have just appeared about keyless cars being stolen. Is it national car theft awareness day or something? Keep 'em peeled, and keep your fobs in a Faraday cage, thus making keyless entry more hassle than having to stick a key in the lock.

    Keyless cars were a response to a problem which didn't need solving.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,271

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I always find both Sleaford and Grantham a disappointment. I grew up in Newark which is a town steeped in history and one which has retained both its original street plan and many or its original buildings although it did also knock down and redevelop some streets which today would be massively popular in an historic town.

    The trouble is that both Sleaford and Grantham have pretty much gutted their historic centres. You can't even blame the bombing as both got through the war with not much in the way of German attacks. It was all due to post war planning which has ripped the soul out of both towns. I would always recommend Newark or Stamford over either Sleaford or Grantham. Much nicer towns to walk around.
    Ok Richard thanks for your response. I knew you were/are in the area. I stayed in Grantham 2016 and I thought it was good. I have only been to Sleaford today. I also went to Stamford 2016 it was top. Never been to Newark.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why isn't there a Scottish team in the Hundred, or indeed an Irish one?

    There are enough fans in both countries to make a decent team

    I've changed my mind, I reckon the Hundred might work, but they should have mostly kept the T20 format AND had the new teams and the pzazz

    The lack of a West Country team, a Home Counties team and a North Eastern team is a more stupid oversight.

    Ireland, the explanation is simple - there is a separate Full Member board with its own competitions so there is no way the Hundred could operate there. It would be a bit like having an IPL team from Karachi.
    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?
    And yet the 20:20 provides just that without all the stupid tinkering.
    Yes, I entirely agree. They should have kept T20 and just added the new teams and wowness - as I said below

    I understand there was some legal-political reason they couldn't
    No, it was just the ECB don’t like the existing county structure because they answer to the county memberships, not the other way around.

    However, given the bullying that they do to get their way, that is a very theoretical check on their power. 17 of the 18 counties voted for the Hundred because (a) they were promised loads of extra money and (b) they were told they would get no money at all from central funds if they didn’t.

    Surrey were the exception, as the one county able to support itself fully from its own revenues. The ECB threatened to strip them of Test status.

    I mean - seriously? Why would they do such a thing? To the Oval, the second largest and by far the most profitable of all English international grounds. These aren’t serious people thinking of the good of the game, they’re spoiled bullies running a protection racket.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,837
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why isn't there a Scottish team in the Hundred, or indeed an Irish one?

    There are enough fans in both countries to make a decent team

    I've changed my mind, I reckon the Hundred might work, but they should have mostly kept the T20 format AND had the new teams and the pzazz

    The lack of a West Country team, a Home Counties team and a North Eastern team is a more stupid oversight.

    Ireland, the explanation is simple - there is a separate Full Member board with its own competitions so there is no way the Hundred could operate there. It would be a bit like having an IPL team from Karachi.
    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?
    And yet the 20:20 provides just that without all the stupid tinkering.
    Yes, I entirely agree. They should have kept T20 and just added the new teams and wowness - as I said below

    I understand there was some legal-political reason they couldn't
    As pointed out yesterday it was to override the first class counties and keep the money
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,566
    ydoethur said:

    OT lots of stories have just appeared about keyless cars being stolen. Is it national car theft awareness day or something? Keep 'em peeled, and keep your fobs in a Faraday cage, thus making keyless entry more hassle than having to stick a key in the lock.

    I have never understood the attraction of keyless cars. What’s so hard about pressing a button or sticking a bit of metal in a lock?
    Mine unlocks when you touch the handle, but still has a button to start, as long as the key is in the car. It’s basically a gimmic, and presumably something else that can go wrong. At least the keyhole can’t disintegrate on the person who buys this one off me, as happened to one of my previous cars...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    Cookie said:

    OT lots of stories have just appeared about keyless cars being stolen. Is it national car theft awareness day or something? Keep 'em peeled, and keep your fobs in a Faraday cage, thus making keyless entry more hassle than having to stick a key in the lock.

    Keyless cars were a response to a problem which didn't need solving.
    People being too clever by half. And not understanding that a process that relies solely on electronics without a basic alternative failsafe is a process that is far more vulnerable than the process that it replaces.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,742

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I've been known to walk in the area. ;)
    The railway station is lovely and classic material. A bit like old school small rural town stations from the 50s/60s until the nasty LAB government 1964-1970 closed all the railways. Never forget that it was LAB who implemented most of Beeching closures 👿😠
    So far as I can make out from Wikipedia, the Spalding line to Sleaford was closed in June 1964. Labour won the election in October 1964. Free the Wilson one!

    HMG is now pledged to reverse the Beeching cuts.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,754
    edited July 22
    Cookie said:

    OT lots of stories have just appeared about keyless cars being stolen. Is it national car theft awareness day or something? Keep 'em peeled, and keep your fobs in a Faraday cage, thus making keyless entry more hassle than having to stick a key in the lock.

    Keyless cars were a response to a problem which didn't need solving.
    How to sell new cars to people who don’t need them?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,899
    Does anyone have a chart/figures of the daily tests conducted by the UK and say France and other EU countries.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    Cookie said:

    OT lots of stories have just appeared about keyless cars being stolen. Is it national car theft awareness day or something? Keep 'em peeled, and keep your fobs in a Faraday cage, thus making keyless entry more hassle than having to stick a key in the lock.

    Keyless cars were a response to a problem which didn't need solving.
    How to sell new cars to people who don’t need them?
    Designed by Tom Harrison of the ECB...
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 902
    alex_ said:

    So, somebody tell me what the deal is with barbers? (there was something of a discussion of this the other day). It appears they are facing something of an existential crisis because of the large number of people who appear to have discovered that they can cut their own hair and/or have decided that due to WFH they need never get a decent haircut ever again.

    And i’m currently sitting in a pub looking across the road at three barber/hair shops within 50m of each other. Two of which I’m sure weren’t there 12 months ago.

    The home haircut trend is probably overplayed. You can't do much with your own hair apart from cut it very short or shave it all off, and very few men have a helpful partner at home with the necessary skills to do anything more sophisticated than that. It's also a bit of a messy faff.

    I don't think any new barbers have opened in town here during the Plague period, but all the existing ones are certainly still going. The obvious inference is that sufficient custom to keep them afloat is still present.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364
    alex_ said:

    So, somebody tell me what the deal is with barbers? (there was something of a discussion of this the other day). It appears they are facing something of an existential crisis because of the large number of people who appear to have discovered that they can cut their own hair and/or have decided that due to WFH they need never get a decent haircut ever again.

    And i’m currently sitting in a pub looking across the road at three barber/hair shops within 50m of each other. Two of which I’m sure weren’t there 12 months ago.

    Ah, yes, much the same here in East Ham. Plenty of options for those seeking follicle improvement or re-styling especially (it has to be said) for the men (and their sons).

    Between the local Saloon, (I'm not joking) and the eponymous outlets catering for the Romanian masculine head, we may be, as Douglas Adams opined where shoes were concerned, approaching the "barber event horizon" economically, socially, culturally, politically and anything else-ally you want.

    As a minority, I eschew all local options and kept my hair cut 30 miles away but that's me - I've never been In with the In Crowd, nor have I ever gone where said Crowd gets its hair cut.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,315
    Breaking

    16 sectors announced where self isolation will not apply including supplying food provided the worker has been fully vaccinated
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,499
    The Government has released a list of 16 sectors including emergency services and food production and supply where fully vaccinated staff may be exempt from self-isolation if they are told to quarantine after coming into close contact with a positive COVID case
    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1418301222050746369
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,216

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I always find both Sleaford and Grantham a disappointment. I grew up in Newark which is a town steeped in history and one which has retained both its original street plan and many or its original buildings although it did also knock down and redevelop some streets which today would be massively popular in an historic town.

    The trouble is that both Sleaford and Grantham have pretty much gutted their historic centres. You can't even blame the bombing as both got through the war with not much in the way of German attacks. It was all due to post war planning which has ripped the soul out of both towns. I would always recommend Newark or Stamford over either Sleaford or Grantham. Much nicer towns to walk around.
    It's odd how cities change. If you go to NLS maps and look at maps of central Derby from ~1910-20, then you can see that even the old road structure has been destroyed. There are only fragments remaining, like some of the old thoroughfares, e.g. Irongate, London Road. Dozens of small side streets ripped away, their replacements dishonouring the original alignment. I don't think Nottingham has suffered so badly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I've been known to walk in the area. ;)
    The railway station is lovely and classic material. A bit like old school small rural town stations from the 50s/60s until the nasty LAB government 1964-1970 closed all the railways. Never forget that it was LAB who implemented most of Beeching closures 👿😠
    So far as I can make out from Wikipedia, the Spalding line to Sleaford was closed in June 1964. Labour won the election in October 1964. Free the Wilson one!

    HMG is now pledged to reverse the Beeching cuts.
    Some of them.

    I don’t think we’ll see the Great Central Mainline reopening, or the Severn Valley Railway, or even the Dumfries to Stranraer railway.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364
    Leon said:


    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?

    The Hundred will fade into obscurity and irrelevance with the coming of City Racing - imagine horses racing down the Mall or in the centres of Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Edinburgh.

    It worked in Rome of course - to be fair, I recall gladiatorial conflict and mismatches between Christians and Lions also drew in the crowds.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,148
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why isn't there a Scottish team in the Hundred, or indeed an Irish one?

    There are enough fans in both countries to make a decent team

    I've changed my mind, I reckon the Hundred might work, but they should have mostly kept the T20 format AND had the new teams and the pzazz

    The lack of a West Country team, a Home Counties team and a North Eastern team is a more stupid oversight.

    Ireland, the explanation is simple - there is a separate Full Member board with its own competitions so there is no way the Hundred could operate there. It would be a bit like having an IPL team from Karachi.
    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?
    And yet the 20:20 provides just that without all the stupid tinkering.
    Yes, I entirely agree. They should have kept T20 and just added the new teams and wowness - as I said below

    I understand there was some legal-political reason they couldn't
    No, it was just the ECB don’t like the existing county structure because they answer to the county memberships, not the other way around.

    However, given the bullying that they do to get their way, that is a very theoretical check on their power. 17 of the 18 counties voted for the Hundred because (a) they were promised loads of extra money and (b) they were told they would get no money at all from central funds if they didn’t.

    Surrey were the exception, as the one county able to support itself fully from its own revenues. The ECB threatened to strip them of Test status.

    I mean - seriously? Why would they do such a thing? To the Oval, the second largest and by far the most profitable of all English international grounds. These aren’t serious people thinking of the good of the game, they’re spoiled bullies running a protection racket.
    Problem with the Hundred is being represented as a form of cricket, which it isn't, any more than badminton is a form of tennis or draughts is a form of chess. They should just go away and start their own sport and their own administration and stop leaching off cricket.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,271

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I've been known to walk in the area. ;)
    The railway station is lovely and classic material. A bit like old school small rural town stations from the 50s/60s until the nasty LAB government 1964-1970 closed all the railways. Never forget that it was LAB who implemented most of Beeching closures 👿😠
    So far as I can make out from Wikipedia, the Spalding line to Sleaford was closed in June 1964. Labour won the election in October 1964. Free the Wilson one!

    HMG is now pledged to reverse the Beeching cuts.
    The railway from Sleaford to Spalding is open today! Part of the line between Lincoln and Peterborough via of course Sleaford. Peterborough to Spalding was closed May 1970 and reopened Oct 1970. Services on this route have improved recently ie later in the evening possibly due to level crossing automation. No Sunday service of course been like that since 1960s or earlier.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,609

    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    32m
    15 Tweet THREAD on current cases & trajectory:

    Cases this week have been bit lower than many expected (inc me!). Have we peaked?

    Here are my thoughts for what they're worth...

    TLDR: lots of possible things combining. I don't think this is the peak.


  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,683
    stodge said:

    Leon said:


    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?

    The Hundred will fade into obscurity and irrelevance with the coming of City Racing - imagine horses racing down the Mall or in the centres of Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Edinburgh.

    It worked in Rome of course - to be fair, I recall gladiatorial conflict and mismatches between Christians and Lions also drew in the crowds.
    City Racing is going to be amazing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Leon said:

    Gnud said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    An excellent commentary as always from Mike Smithson. These thoughts are from one who supported Brexit but wanted 'Norway for Now' in the belief that a long term process was essential.

    1) If Brexit and GFA are actually incompatible then Remain incomprehensibly failed to say so, and failed to say what the limits on Brexit would be. That is because they are not incompatible.

    2) The UK and the RoI are sovereign states (the sort with seats at the UN and armies).

    3) The EU is an extensive trade association, and not a state.

    4) If it is realistic to say that the UK can bend its sovereignty red lines to the extent of separating the GB and the NI internal market as the protocol requires, it is realistic to say that the EU can bend its trade association rules to contain an anomaly which protects the interests of one of their members, the RoI, and those of a friendly neighbour with equivalently high standards, the UK.

    5) Which obvious truth is why Remain did not campaign on the basis that a (non EFTA) Brexit was impossible.

    Precisely, the dispute is between the UK and Ireland, not the UK and EU. Ireland could disengage from the Single Market, join a customs union with the UK - no land border, no sea border - job done.

    The Irish saw the trap on day 1 and have marshalled their considerable lobbying power in both the EU and the US to avoid having to choose between the Single Market and a soft land border. The EU doesn't care as long as its rules are followed, but Ireland won't compromise on this point, ever.

    So what will happen if this Brexiteer government decides to tear up both the Protocol and the TCA? This is a significantly greater than zero risk. They will lose Nissan, which is something they seem to care about, but once it's gone it's gone, and they have pretty much wrecked everything else anyway, so why not?

    I am guessing Ireland will go with the Single Market and cut the North loose. But it will be a grim time for everyone, especially those in Northern Ireland.
    The UK government could have left without a deal. That would have left the EU with the problem of how to deal with the land border in the island of Ireland since in principle they would have had to close it to protect the SM, and we wouldn't because we would have had insufficient interest in protecting the border.

    We didn't. Meaning that Boris accepted the Ireland fudge which all parties knew could not work in the long term. Not least because it is obvious to all that unionist extremists in NI would not accept for ever the NI/GB divergence without resorting to civil unrest.

    So the problem landed mostly on us rather than them.

    Boris's tactic was to accept the only way of leaving with a deal, and wait; hoping that in due course it may become a joint problem and not just ours. Hence the willingness to break with an international treaty. He has no alternative in these unique circumstances.

    The EU wants the UK to break the red lines of our internal market. We want the EU to break their SM red lines. Both sides refuse to be the first to suggest an internal barrier. That is about the only hold Boris has.

    The thing is we've got our cake and are eating it. Britain has a deal, and failing to implement the NI Protocol in the way the EU wanted it to exposes their bluff - they're not going to put up a border in the NI/Eire border, we're not going to put up an Irish Sea one, and they're not going to tear up the agreement because doing so means they will have to put up an NI/Eire border.

    They have no chips to hold except "you agreed to this", which is not very meaningful in the circumstances. Especially since they agreed to Article 16 which is part of the agreement and can be invoked if need be - and if it is then what can they do without making their problems worse?

    We hold all the cards.
    Until the day when the Dublin government, caught between Britain and the EU, says there are only two workable options: a hard border or a united Ireland.
    Ireland will never push forcefully for a united Ireland because they are too scared of Loyalist violence and more decades of Troubles

    The same goes for a hard border across Ireland, no one will ever impose it because they are too scared of IRA violence etc etc


    The men with the balaclavas and the armalites have a veto on any solutions other than a fudged version of the status quo, so that is what will happen in the end, and Boris is arguably just being pragmatic and the EU is being purist for no purpose
    Ultimately, the Good Friday Agreement will need to change a bit, the EU will need to compromise a bit, and we will probably have to pay a small price to smooth things over.

    I think committing to a new high speed railway line between Belfast and Dublin (that stopped at Dublin Airport on the way) is the way forward.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,216
    pigeon said:

    alex_ said:

    So, somebody tell me what the deal is with barbers? (there was something of a discussion of this the other day). It appears they are facing something of an existential crisis because of the large number of people who appear to have discovered that they can cut their own hair and/or have decided that due to WFH they need never get a decent haircut ever again.

    And i’m currently sitting in a pub looking across the road at three barber/hair shops within 50m of each other. Two of which I’m sure weren’t there 12 months ago.

    The home haircut trend is probably overplayed. You can't do much with your own hair apart from cut it very short or shave it all off, and very few men have a helpful partner at home with the necessary skills to do anything more sophisticated than that. It's also a bit of a messy faff.

    I don't think any new barbers have opened in town here during the Plague period, but all the existing ones are certainly still going. The obvious inference is that sufficient custom to keep them afloat is still present.
    I've done it myself for years (not at the moment; I'm growing it long for a wildman look). Before that, I used to go to Chris's Barber Shop in Derby. Which had the unusual sideline of also being a railway bookshop.

    I used to travel up from Cambridge every couple of months just to go there. Sadly, he retired before my son could go. He was quite well known in the city; when someone wanted to get hold of my dad, they asked Chris, who contacted me.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,208


    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    32m
    15 Tweet THREAD on current cases & trajectory:

    Cases this week have been bit lower than many expected (inc me!). Have we peaked?

    Here are my thoughts for what they're worth...

    TLDR: lots of possible things combining. I don't think this is the peak.


    There is a definite slowing

    image


  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,346
    ydoethur said:

    OT lots of stories have just appeared about keyless cars being stolen. Is it national car theft awareness day or something? Keep 'em peeled, and keep your fobs in a Faraday cage, thus making keyless entry more hassle than having to stick a key in the lock.

    I have never understood the attraction of keyless cars. What’s so hard about pressing a button or sticking a bit of metal in a lock?
    You've never seen someone taking an eternity rummaging through their bag trying to find the car keys?

    Or worse still, be stood there in the rain during such a rummage, unable to get in the car.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,499
    The critical workers who could be exempt from isolation, if their employer has been contacted by Govt and their name is specified. This is only for close contacts who have been doubled vaxxed.
    The golden ticket of escaping isolation…
    https://twitter.com/RachBradleyITV/status/1418302693488140293/photo/1
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,566


    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    32m
    15 Tweet THREAD on current cases & trajectory:

    Cases this week have been bit lower than many expected (inc me!). Have we peaked?

    Here are my thoughts for what they're worth...

    TLDR: lots of possible things combining. I don't think this is the peak.


    I think she’d be disappointed if it is the peak...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364
    Evening all :)

    Huge vaccination news this evening in downtown Newham - Mrs Stodge (already doubly vaccinated) has been invited to have yet another vaccination.

    Not any ordinary vaccination though - Newham is setting up a women's only vaccination clinic next Saturday. As we know, some cultures are much more gender segregated so it may be a way to boost the vaccine take-up.

    Newham currently has 56.8% of adults with one vaccination and 37.3% with both vaccinations.

    That still leaves 150,000 adults who have had no vaccination.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,499
    From the official guidance for employers wanting to exempt pinged workers from the the requirement to self isolate...

    This isn't going to work, is it? #pingdemic
    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418300253795758080/photo/1
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,216

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I've been known to walk in the area. ;)
    The railway station is lovely and classic material. A bit like old school small rural town stations from the 50s/60s until the nasty LAB government 1964-1970 closed all the railways. Never forget that it was LAB who implemented most of Beeching closures 👿😠
    So far as I can make out from Wikipedia, the Spalding line to Sleaford was closed in June 1964. Labour won the election in October 1964. Free the Wilson one!

    HMG is now pledged to reverse the Beeching cuts.
    It's surprising then that you can get a train direct tonight between Spalding and Sleaford, without changing!
    https://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/SPA/SLR/today/2115/dep
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364

    stodge said:

    Leon said:


    Nonetheless I can see it working in big cities in the summer.

    "Off to the Hundred tonight?" "Sure, nice evening, bit of cricket, few beers!"

    It makes total sense. Family friendly. Effervescent. Fast cricket is always fun to watch.

    Within a few years it might have developed enough passion for matches to become genuinely gripping and compelling, and then it could expand into the rest of the country, even Europe?

    The Hundred will fade into obscurity and irrelevance with the coming of City Racing - imagine horses racing down the Mall or in the centres of Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Edinburgh.

    It worked in Rome of course - to be fair, I recall gladiatorial conflict and mismatches between Christians and Lions also drew in the crowds.
    City Racing is going to be amazing.
    Maybe - it's all gone very quiet since Covid.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638


    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    32m
    15 Tweet THREAD on current cases & trajectory:

    Cases this week have been bit lower than many expected (inc me!). Have we peaked?

    Here are my thoughts for what they're worth...

    TLDR: lots of possible things combining. I don't think this is the peak.


    One thing I will not miss about this is having to listen to members of Cosplay Sage every single day.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    ydoethur said:

    OT lots of stories have just appeared about keyless cars being stolen. Is it national car theft awareness day or something? Keep 'em peeled, and keep your fobs in a Faraday cage, thus making keyless entry more hassle than having to stick a key in the lock.

    I have never understood the attraction of keyless cars. What’s so hard about pressing a button or sticking a bit of metal in a lock?
    You've never seen someone taking an eternity rummaging through their bag trying to find the car keys?

    Or worse still, be stood there in the rain during such a rummage, unable to get in the car.
    No.

    I expect to see lots of people standing in the rain, taking an eternity to work out whether they’ve forgotten where they parked or if their car has been nicked due to the lousy security of keyless from now on though.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,837
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Gnud said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    An excellent commentary as always from Mike Smithson. These thoughts are from one who supported Brexit but wanted 'Norway for Now' in the belief that a long term process was essential.

    1) If Brexit and GFA are actually incompatible then Remain incomprehensibly failed to say so, and failed to say what the limits on Brexit would be. That is because they are not incompatible.

    2) The UK and the RoI are sovereign states (the sort with seats at the UN and armies).

    3) The EU is an extensive trade association, and not a state.

    4) If it is realistic to say that the UK can bend its sovereignty red lines to the extent of separating the GB and the NI internal market as the protocol requires, it is realistic to say that the EU can bend its trade association rules to contain an anomaly which protects the interests of one of their members, the RoI, and those of a friendly neighbour with equivalently high standards, the UK.

    5) Which obvious truth is why Remain did not campaign on the basis that a (non EFTA) Brexit was impossible.

    Precisely, the dispute is between the UK and Ireland, not the UK and EU. Ireland could disengage from the Single Market, join a customs union with the UK - no land border, no sea border - job done.

    The Irish saw the trap on day 1 and have marshalled their considerable lobbying power in both the EU and the US to avoid having to choose between the Single Market and a soft land border. The EU doesn't care as long as its rules are followed, but Ireland won't compromise on this point, ever.

    So what will happen if this Brexiteer government decides to tear up both the Protocol and the TCA? This is a significantly greater than zero risk. They will lose Nissan, which is something they seem to care about, but once it's gone it's gone, and they have pretty much wrecked everything else anyway, so why not?

    I am guessing Ireland will go with the Single Market and cut the North loose. But it will be a grim time for everyone, especially those in Northern Ireland.
    The UK government could have left without a deal. That would have left the EU with the problem of how to deal with the land border in the island of Ireland since in principle they would have had to close it to protect the SM, and we wouldn't because we would have had insufficient interest in protecting the border.

    We didn't. Meaning that Boris accepted the Ireland fudge which all parties knew could not work in the long term. Not least because it is obvious to all that unionist extremists in NI would not accept for ever the NI/GB divergence without resorting to civil unrest.

    So the problem landed mostly on us rather than them.

    Boris's tactic was to accept the only way of leaving with a deal, and wait; hoping that in due course it may become a joint problem and not just ours. Hence the willingness to break with an international treaty. He has no alternative in these unique circumstances.

    The EU wants the UK to break the red lines of our internal market. We want the EU to break their SM red lines. Both sides refuse to be the first to suggest an internal barrier. That is about the only hold Boris has.

    The thing is we've got our cake and are eating it. Britain has a deal, and failing to implement the NI Protocol in the way the EU wanted it to exposes their bluff - they're not going to put up a border in the NI/Eire border, we're not going to put up an Irish Sea one, and they're not going to tear up the agreement because doing so means they will have to put up an NI/Eire border.

    They have no chips to hold except "you agreed to this", which is not very meaningful in the circumstances. Especially since they agreed to Article 16 which is part of the agreement and can be invoked if need be - and if it is then what can they do without making their problems worse?

    We hold all the cards.
    Until the day when the Dublin government, caught between Britain and the EU, says there are only two workable options: a hard border or a united Ireland.
    Ireland will never push forcefully for a united Ireland because they are too scared of Loyalist violence and more decades of Troubles

    The same goes for a hard border across Ireland, no one will ever impose it because they are too scared of IRA violence etc etc


    The men with the balaclavas and the armalites have a veto on any solutions other than a fudged version of the status quo, so that is what will happen in the end, and Boris is arguably just being pragmatic and the EU is being purist for no purpose
    Ultimately, the Good Friday Agreement will need to change a bit, the EU will need to compromise a bit, and we will probably have to pay a small price to smooth things over.

    I think committing to a new high speed railway line between Belfast and Dublin (that stopped at Dublin Airport on the way) is the way forward.
    The issue with that alongside the other issue is that the EU don't see any reason to compromise
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,609
    Oh...


    Martin Juhl
    @MartinJuhl2
    The good & the bad news

    Rightwards arrowBad news first: early data from Israel indicates that vaccine efficacy in preventing infection & symptomatic disease (mainly Pfizer-BioNTech) goes from 75-79% to 16% within 4 months against the Delta variant
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,929

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I always find both Sleaford and Grantham a disappointment. I grew up in Newark which is a town steeped in history and one which has retained both its original street plan and many or its original buildings although it did also knock down and redevelop some streets which today would be massively popular in an historic town.

    The trouble is that both Sleaford and Grantham have pretty much gutted their historic centres. You can't even blame the bombing as both got through the war with not much in the way of German attacks. It was all due to post war planning which has ripped the soul out of both towns. I would always recommend Newark or Stamford over either Sleaford or Grantham. Much nicer towns to walk around.
    My uncle was MP for both Sleaford and Grantham 😢
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,006
    edited July 22
    Sorry to disappoint all you old blokes but I was speaking to my nephew, just out of uni, and a lot of his friends, and they all thought and think the Hundred would be awesome.

    All big cricket fans.

    They were going shortly.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,420
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Huge vaccination news this evening in downtown Newham - Mrs Stodge (already doubly vaccinated) has been invited to have yet another vaccination.

    Not any ordinary vaccination though - Newham is setting up a women's only vaccination clinic next Saturday. As we know, some cultures are much more gender segregated so it may be a way to boost the vaccine take-up.

    Newham currently has 56.8% of adults with one vaccination and 37.3% with both vaccinations.

    That still leaves 150,000 adults who have had no vaccination.

    Might make a difference, worth a try.

    A bit disconcerting that they are sending letter to people already vaccinated, but, maybe it was easier/quicker to send it to all females?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,061

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    alednam said:

    kinabalu said:

    From Ursula von der Leyen's Twitter feed:

    PM @BorisJohnson called to present the UK Command paper on the Irish/Northern Irish Protocol.

    The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

    We must jointly ensure stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1418163146947239940

    That's is quite extraordinarily cold. Not even a 'we had a constructive discussion' or 'we agreed to continue talking'.

    If Boris thinks Lord Frost's bizarre antics are going to work, he's an even prizer prize fool than we all thought.

    Are we sure this rather unorthodox government wouldn't welcome a nice big running spat with the evil empire?
    Actually I think Boris is very content to have a fight with the EU rightly or wrongly
    But not wise of Boris to be so content. Biden is very certainly on the side of the EU, and when it comes to COP26 (Glasgow), it can't be good if the EU and USA are aligned against the UK.
    Is he though? Or does he actually not give a flying fuck about UK/EU squabbling.
    He doesn't, however I do know for a fact that several of Boris Johnson's team are aware that Biden hasn't forgiven that dog whistle* comment about Obama's heritage.

    *More of a foghorn.

    Biden may not have forgiven it, but by the look of the old guy, he's very probably forgotten it
    Well those who advise Biden certainly haven't forgotten it.

    I read a piece last year about it, back in 2007 Obama's team had war gamed the 2008 campaign if the GOP nominee had run a racist/dog whistle campaign.

    At the top of the list they'd expect two key things from a race baiting GOP nominee

    1) To keep on calling Obama 'Barack Hussein Obama.'

    and/or

    2) Keep on referencing his part Kenyan heritage

    Fortunately the GOP selected McCain and Romney who were honourable men and never went down that route.
    Biden has never been one to hold grudges.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 902
    Scott_xP said:

    From the official guidance for employers wanting to exempt pinged workers from the the requirement to self isolate...

    This isn't going to work, is it? #pingdemic
    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418300253795758080/photo/1

    It's mental and useless.

    I assume that ministers have decided that, aside from the NHS, they don't want to budge on self-isolation at all, so have decided to make it hard-to-impossible to gain an exemption. Whether this is because the Government is hoping that the dreaded pingdemic never gets as bad as some businesses fear it will, or that employees will solve the problem for it by deleting the app en masse, I've no idea.

    It's just possible, of course, that they're simply clueless, flailing, and spewing forth the first (typically bad) idea that occurs to them. Without giving any of this any thought at all.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,609


    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    32m
    15 Tweet THREAD on current cases & trajectory:

    Cases this week have been bit lower than many expected (inc me!). Have we peaked?

    Here are my thoughts for what they're worth...

    TLDR: lots of possible things combining. I don't think this is the peak.


    I think she’d be disappointed if it is the peak...
    I think we can rely on iSAGE moving swiftly on to warning that catastrophe will arrive as soon as schools reopen in early September.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,420

    Oh...


    Martin Juhl
    @MartinJuhl2
    The good & the bad news

    Rightwards arrowBad news first: early data from Israel indicates that vaccine efficacy in preventing infection & symptomatic disease (mainly Pfizer-BioNTech) goes from 75-79% to 16% within 4 months against the Delta variant

    I'm a bit sceptical of that, if it was only 16% effective after 4 months, then I would have thought Israel would be much more badly affected than it is now, but sure it will drop a bit, perhaps the longer waiting between does that the UK has done will, tern out to be better?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,271

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I've been known to walk in the area. ;)
    The railway station is lovely and classic material. A bit like old school small rural town stations from the 50s/60s until the nasty LAB government 1964-1970 closed all the railways. Never forget that it was LAB who implemented most of Beeching closures 👿😠
    So far as I can make out from Wikipedia, the Spalding line to Sleaford was closed in June 1964. Labour won the election in October 1964. Free the Wilson one!

    HMG is now pledged to reverse the Beeching cuts.
    It's surprising then that you can get a train direct tonight between Spalding and Sleaford, without changing!
    https://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/SPA/SLR/today/2115/dep
    That's Boris building back better!

    😊
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 1,914
    If we're talking events, let's bring back the Birmingham Superprix. For...reasons.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,556
    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I've been known to walk in the area. ;)
    The railway station is lovely and classic material. A bit like old school small rural town stations from the 50s/60s until the nasty LAB government 1964-1970 closed all the railways. Never forget that it was LAB who implemented most of Beeching closures 👿😠
    So far as I can make out from Wikipedia, the Spalding line to Sleaford was closed in June 1964. Labour won the election in October 1964. Free the Wilson one!

    HMG is now pledged to reverse the Beeching cuts.
    Some of them.

    I don’t think we’ll see the Great Central Mainline reopening, or the Severn Valley Railway, or even the Dumfries to Stranraer railway.
    Yet the latter would be so crucial for Mr Johnson's Bridge (Mark 2: after the Garden Bridge). Indeed, the failure to discuss it is probably a bellwether for the improbability of the whole thing.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 902

    Oh...


    Martin Juhl
    @MartinJuhl2
    The good & the bad news

    Rightwards arrowBad news first: early data from Israel indicates that vaccine efficacy in preventing infection & symptomatic disease (mainly Pfizer-BioNTech) goes from 75-79% to 16% within 4 months against the Delta variant

    Who is this individual and where are they getting their information? Smells very wrong. UK has been using Pfizer on olds since last December. Where is the tsunami of unprotected octogenarians swamping the hospitals?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    TOPPING said:

    Sorry to disappoint all you old blokes but I was speaking to my nephew, just out of uni, and a lot of his friends, and they all thought and think the Hundred would be awesome.

    All big cricket fans.

    They were going shortly.

    I would love to know any reasons they gave for why the Hundred was “awesome” where the exiting T20, wasn’t...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,253

    Been a bad day for the far right in the courts this week.

    A student who founded two banned neo-Nazi groups has been jailed for seven years after calling for the rape and hanging of policewomen.

    Andrew Dymock, 24, a politics undergraduate from Bath, was accused of being a Satanist and had once carved a swastika into a girlfriend’s buttock using a nail.

    Detectives believe Dymock, a student at Aberystwyth University and the privately educated son of a dental professor and a microbiologist, saw himself as an online neo-Nazi “influencer”....

    ...Dymock was found guilty of a total of 15 charges for offences including encouraging terrorism, disseminating terrorist publications, funding terrorism, and stirring up racial hatred and hatred based on sexual orientation.

    Detectives discovered he had established a series of virulently racist and antisemitic websites, starting in 2017, which he used to encourage lone-wolf terrorist attacks to provoke a race war.

    Among his associates was Oskar Dunn-Koczorowski, then aged 18 from Acton, west London, who used a gaming message board to publish an image saying that Prince Harry should be shot as a “race traitor”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/neo-nazi-student-called-rape-jailed-lm8lq7frt

    Sorry when did being a satanist become illegal? Must have missed that its just another christian sect
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629

    ydoethur said:

    OT lots of stories have just appeared about keyless cars being stolen. Is it national car theft awareness day or something? Keep 'em peeled, and keep your fobs in a Faraday cage, thus making keyless entry more hassle than having to stick a key in the lock.

    I have never understood the attraction of keyless cars. What’s so hard about pressing a button or sticking a bit of metal in a lock?
    You've never seen someone taking an eternity rummaging through their bag trying to find the car keys?

    Or worse still, be stood there in the rain during such a rummage, unable to get in the car.
    Mr Bean just uses a padlock and secretes the steering wheel in his suitcase :lol:
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,566
    BigRich said:

    Oh...


    Martin Juhl
    @MartinJuhl2
    The good & the bad news

    Rightwards arrowBad news first: early data from Israel indicates that vaccine efficacy in preventing infection & symptomatic disease (mainly Pfizer-BioNTech) goes from 75-79% to 16% within 4 months against the Delta variant

    I'm a bit sceptical of that, if it was only 16% effective after 4 months, then I would have thought Israel would be much more badly affected than it is now, but sure it will drop a bit, perhaps the longer waiting between does that the UK has done will, tern out to be better?
    I know it says it’s been adjusted for age, but if they did the vulnerable first, like us, there could be an effect of that.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    alednam said:

    kinabalu said:

    From Ursula von der Leyen's Twitter feed:

    PM @BorisJohnson called to present the UK Command paper on the Irish/Northern Irish Protocol.

    The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

    We must jointly ensure stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1418163146947239940

    That's is quite extraordinarily cold. Not even a 'we had a constructive discussion' or 'we agreed to continue talking'.

    If Boris thinks Lord Frost's bizarre antics are going to work, he's an even prizer prize fool than we all thought.

    Are we sure this rather unorthodox government wouldn't welcome a nice big running spat with the evil empire?
    Actually I think Boris is very content to have a fight with the EU rightly or wrongly
    But not wise of Boris to be so content. Biden is very certainly on the side of the EU, and when it comes to COP26 (Glasgow), it can't be good if the EU and USA are aligned against the UK.
    Is he though? Or does he actually not give a flying fuck about UK/EU squabbling.
    He doesn't, however I do know for a fact that several of Boris Johnson's team are aware that Biden hasn't forgiven that dog whistle* comment about Obama's heritage.

    *More of a foghorn.

    Biden may not have forgiven it, but by the look of the old guy, he's very probably forgotten it
    Well those who advise Biden certainly haven't forgotten it.

    I read a piece last year about it, back in 2007 Obama's team had war gamed the 2008 campaign if the GOP nominee had run a racist/dog whistle campaign.

    At the top of the list they'd expect two key things from a race baiting GOP nominee

    1) To keep on calling Obama 'Barack Hussein Obama.'

    and/or

    2) Keep on referencing his part Kenyan heritage

    Fortunately the GOP selected McCain and Romney who were honourable men and never went down that route.
    Biden has never been one to hold grudges.
    Anyone who’s been around in politics as long as he has simply doesn’t.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I've been known to walk in the area. ;)
    The railway station is lovely and classic material. A bit like old school small rural town stations from the 50s/60s until the nasty LAB government 1964-1970 closed all the railways. Never forget that it was LAB who implemented most of Beeching closures 👿😠
    So far as I can make out from Wikipedia, the Spalding line to Sleaford was closed in June 1964. Labour won the election in October 1964. Free the Wilson one!

    HMG is now pledged to reverse the Beeching cuts.
    It's surprising then that you can get a train direct tonight between Spalding and Sleaford, without changing!
    https://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/SPA/SLR/today/2115/dep
    That's Boris building back better!

    😊
    Nah, I did that route way back in 2016! (Peterborough to Lincoln).
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,260
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    From the official guidance for employers wanting to exempt pinged workers from the the requirement to self isolate...

    This isn't going to work, is it? #pingdemic
    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418300253795758080/photo/1

    It's mental and useless.

    I assume that ministers have decided that, aside from the NHS, they don't want to budge on self-isolation at all, so have decided to make it hard-to-impossible to gain an exemption. Whether this is because the Government is hoping that the dreaded pingdemic never gets as bad as some businesses fear it will, or that employees will solve the problem for it by deleting the app en masse, I've no idea.

    It's just possible, of course, that they're simply clueless, flailing, and spewing forth the first (typically bad) idea that occurs to them. Without giving any of this any thought at all.
    Besides, this way, any problems Aren't The Government's Fault.
    If businesses fail to apply for the exemptions that the government has made available, that's their problem...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    pigeon said:

    Oh...


    Martin Juhl
    @MartinJuhl2
    The good & the bad news

    Rightwards arrowBad news first: early data from Israel indicates that vaccine efficacy in preventing infection & symptomatic disease (mainly Pfizer-BioNTech) goes from 75-79% to 16% within 4 months against the Delta variant

    Who is this individual and where are they getting their information? Smells very wrong. UK has been using Pfizer on olds since last December. Where is the tsunami of unprotected octogenarians swamping the hospitals?
    Well we did take our own position on the optimum “second vaccination” gap...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,929
    Pagan2 said:

    Been a bad day for the far right in the courts this week.

    A student who founded two banned neo-Nazi groups has been jailed for seven years after calling for the rape and hanging of policewomen.

    Andrew Dymock, 24, a politics undergraduate from Bath, was accused of being a Satanist and had once carved a swastika into a girlfriend’s buttock using a nail.

    Detectives believe Dymock, a student at Aberystwyth University and the privately educated son of a dental professor and a microbiologist, saw himself as an online neo-Nazi “influencer”....

    ...Dymock was found guilty of a total of 15 charges for offences including encouraging terrorism, disseminating terrorist publications, funding terrorism, and stirring up racial hatred and hatred based on sexual orientation.

    Detectives discovered he had established a series of virulently racist and antisemitic websites, starting in 2017, which he used to encourage lone-wolf terrorist attacks to provoke a race war.

    Among his associates was Oskar Dunn-Koczorowski, then aged 18 from Acton, west London, who used a gaming message board to publish an image saying that Prince Harry should be shot as a “race traitor”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/neo-nazi-student-called-rape-jailed-lm8lq7frt

    Sorry when did being a satanist become illegal? Must have missed that its just another christian sect
    And didn’t McDonald call for the lynching of Esther McVey?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,609
    alex_ said:

    pigeon said:

    Oh...


    Martin Juhl
    @MartinJuhl2
    The good & the bad news

    Rightwards arrowBad news first: early data from Israel indicates that vaccine efficacy in preventing infection & symptomatic disease (mainly Pfizer-BioNTech) goes from 75-79% to 16% within 4 months against the Delta variant

    Who is this individual and where are they getting their information? Smells very wrong. UK has been using Pfizer on olds since last December. Where is the tsunami of unprotected octogenarians swamping the hospitals?
    Well we did take our own position on the optimum “second vaccination” gap...
    Seems Pfizer still protects against hospital-level illness. So maybe all our 80+ year olds are getting a mild sniffle?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,006
    alex_ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sorry to disappoint all you old blokes but I was speaking to my nephew, just out of uni, and a lot of his friends, and they all thought and think the Hundred would be awesome.

    All big cricket fans.

    They were going shortly.

    I would love to know any reasons they gave for why the Hundred was “awesome” where the exiting T20, wasn’t...
    They mentioned some names of the people who should have been in the cancelled one does that make sense?

    Other than that I will ask them but being young I imagine they are more open to new things than oldies are.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    From the official guidance for employers wanting to exempt pinged workers from the the requirement to self isolate...

    This isn't going to work, is it? #pingdemic
    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418300253795758080/photo/1

    It's mental and useless.

    I assume that ministers have decided that, aside from the NHS, they don't want to budge on self-isolation at all, so have decided to make it hard-to-impossible to gain an exemption. Whether this is because the Government is hoping that the dreaded pingdemic never gets as bad as some businesses fear it will, or that employees will solve the problem for it by deleting the app en masse, I've no idea.

    It's just possible, of course, that they're simply clueless, flailing, and spewing forth the first (typically bad) idea that occurs to them. Without giving any of this any thought at all.
    The problem is that employers don’t get to chose if their employees get to delete the app. Whether they can prevent abuse of the rules is another matter... Given that isolation after being pinged by the app is not a legal requirement it is a valid question as to whether employers can order their employers to work regardless (different if actually contacted by test and trace). After all, self isolation isn’t something designed to protect the isolating individual themself.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,899
    Pagan2 said:

    Been a bad day for the far right in the courts this week.

    A student who founded two banned neo-Nazi groups has been jailed for seven years after calling for the rape and hanging of policewomen.

    Andrew Dymock, 24, a politics undergraduate from Bath, was accused of being a Satanist and had once carved a swastika into a girlfriend’s buttock using a nail.

    Detectives believe Dymock, a student at Aberystwyth University and the privately educated son of a dental professor and a microbiologist, saw himself as an online neo-Nazi “influencer”....

    ...Dymock was found guilty of a total of 15 charges for offences including encouraging terrorism, disseminating terrorist publications, funding terrorism, and stirring up racial hatred and hatred based on sexual orientation.

    Detectives discovered he had established a series of virulently racist and antisemitic websites, starting in 2017, which he used to encourage lone-wolf terrorist attacks to provoke a race war.

    Among his associates was Oskar Dunn-Koczorowski, then aged 18 from Acton, west London, who used a gaming message board to publish an image saying that Prince Harry should be shot as a “race traitor”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/neo-nazi-student-called-rape-jailed-lm8lq7frt

    Sorry when did being a satanist become illegal? Must have missed that its just another christian sect
    It hasn't.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,566

    alex_ said:

    pigeon said:

    Oh...


    Martin Juhl
    @MartinJuhl2
    The good & the bad news

    Rightwards arrowBad news first: early data from Israel indicates that vaccine efficacy in preventing infection & symptomatic disease (mainly Pfizer-BioNTech) goes from 75-79% to 16% within 4 months against the Delta variant

    Who is this individual and where are they getting their information? Smells very wrong. UK has been using Pfizer on olds since last December. Where is the tsunami of unprotected octogenarians swamping the hospitals?
    Well we did take our own position on the optimum “second vaccination” gap...
    Seems Pfizer still protects against hospital-level illness. So maybe all our 80+ year olds are getting a mild sniffle?
    If you look at our case rates by age, we are NOT seeing this issue in the U.K. I’m a bit sceptical of this.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,609
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    From the official guidance for employers wanting to exempt pinged workers from the the requirement to self isolate...

    This isn't going to work, is it? #pingdemic
    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418300253795758080/photo/1

    It's mental and useless.

    I assume that ministers have decided that, aside from the NHS, they don't want to budge on self-isolation at all, so have decided to make it hard-to-impossible to gain an exemption. Whether this is because the Government is hoping that the dreaded pingdemic never gets as bad as some businesses fear it will, or that employees will solve the problem for it by deleting the app en masse, I've no idea.

    It's just possible, of course, that they're simply clueless, flailing, and spewing forth the first (typically bad) idea that occurs to them. Without giving any of this any thought at all.
    Empty shelves across Britain might focus their minds. Remember Blair and the fuel dispute. And he was running a competent administration rather than this clown show.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Charles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Been a bad day for the far right in the courts this week.

    A student who founded two banned neo-Nazi groups has been jailed for seven years after calling for the rape and hanging of policewomen.

    Andrew Dymock, 24, a politics undergraduate from Bath, was accused of being a Satanist and had once carved a swastika into a girlfriend’s buttock using a nail.

    Detectives believe Dymock, a student at Aberystwyth University and the privately educated son of a dental professor and a microbiologist, saw himself as an online neo-Nazi “influencer”....

    ...Dymock was found guilty of a total of 15 charges for offences including encouraging terrorism, disseminating terrorist publications, funding terrorism, and stirring up racial hatred and hatred based on sexual orientation.

    Detectives discovered he had established a series of virulently racist and antisemitic websites, starting in 2017, which he used to encourage lone-wolf terrorist attacks to provoke a race war.

    Among his associates was Oskar Dunn-Koczorowski, then aged 18 from Acton, west London, who used a gaming message board to publish an image saying that Prince Harry should be shot as a “race traitor”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/neo-nazi-student-called-rape-jailed-lm8lq7frt

    Sorry when did being a satanist become illegal? Must have missed that its just another christian sect
    And didn’t McDonald call for the lynching of Esther McVey?
    No, although John Macdonnell endorsed the views of somebody who did.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Pagan2 said:

    Been a bad day for the far right in the courts this week.

    A student who founded two banned neo-Nazi groups has been jailed for seven years after calling for the rape and hanging of policewomen.

    Andrew Dymock, 24, a politics undergraduate from Bath, was accused of being a Satanist and had once carved a swastika into a girlfriend’s buttock using a nail.

    Detectives believe Dymock, a student at Aberystwyth University and the privately educated son of a dental professor and a microbiologist, saw himself as an online neo-Nazi “influencer”....

    ...Dymock was found guilty of a total of 15 charges for offences including encouraging terrorism, disseminating terrorist publications, funding terrorism, and stirring up racial hatred and hatred based on sexual orientation.

    Detectives discovered he had established a series of virulently racist and antisemitic websites, starting in 2017, which he used to encourage lone-wolf terrorist attacks to provoke a race war.

    Among his associates was Oskar Dunn-Koczorowski, then aged 18 from Acton, west London, who used a gaming message board to publish an image saying that Prince Harry should be shot as a “race traitor”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/neo-nazi-student-called-rape-jailed-lm8lq7frt

    Sorry when did being a satanist become illegal? Must have missed that its just another christian sect
    I don’t think his satanism was part of the indictment.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,929
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Things can only get bitter:
    image

    So race relations began to seriously decline under Obama??
    On that chart, everything was great until the last two years of Obama.

    Which is odd.
    Important to note it is *perceptions* of race relations. Was there any major event in 2013?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,609
    Allie Hodgkins-Brown
    @AllieHBNews
    ·
    15m
    Friday’s METRO: “PING In The Army” #TomorrowsPapersToday
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 902

    alex_ said:

    pigeon said:

    Oh...


    Martin Juhl
    @MartinJuhl2
    The good & the bad news

    Rightwards arrowBad news first: early data from Israel indicates that vaccine efficacy in preventing infection & symptomatic disease (mainly Pfizer-BioNTech) goes from 75-79% to 16% within 4 months against the Delta variant

    Who is this individual and where are they getting their information? Smells very wrong. UK has been using Pfizer on olds since last December. Where is the tsunami of unprotected octogenarians swamping the hospitals?
    Well we did take our own position on the optimum “second vaccination” gap...
    Seems Pfizer still protects against hospital-level illness. So maybe all our 80+ year olds are getting a mild sniffle?
    The idea that a vaccine somehow fails to protect the vast majority of frail elderly people with knackered immune systems from getting ill, yet miraculously prevents almost all of those illnesses from becoming serious enough to require hospital attention (even if it's "only" a check-up or an hour or two of oxygen,) doesn't sound terribly plausible either.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,899
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Things can only get bitter:
    image

    So race relations began to seriously decline under Obama??
    On that chart, everything was great until the last two years of Obama.

    Which is odd.
    Important to note it is *perceptions* of race relations. Was there any major event in 2013?
    2015 when it all went wrong with Dylan Roof.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    My theory is the more public the panto the more real negotiating that is actually going on behind the scenes.

    So, the UK and EU are both doing a bit of anchoring, and playing to the crowd, over the NI protocol.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    pigeon said:

    alex_ said:

    pigeon said:

    Oh...


    Martin Juhl
    @MartinJuhl2
    The good & the bad news

    Rightwards arrowBad news first: early data from Israel indicates that vaccine efficacy in preventing infection & symptomatic disease (mainly Pfizer-BioNTech) goes from 75-79% to 16% within 4 months against the Delta variant

    Who is this individual and where are they getting their information? Smells very wrong. UK has been using Pfizer on olds since last December. Where is the tsunami of unprotected octogenarians swamping the hospitals?
    Well we did take our own position on the optimum “second vaccination” gap...
    Seems Pfizer still protects against hospital-level illness. So maybe all our 80+ year olds are getting a mild sniffle?
    The idea that a vaccine somehow fails to protect the vast majority of frail elderly people with knackered immune systems from getting ill, yet miraculously prevents almost all of those illnesses from becoming serious enough to require hospital attention (even if it's "only" a check-up or an hour or two of oxygen,) doesn't sound terribly plausible either.
    On the other hand there would be something deliciously brilliant on so many levels of it turned out the Pfizer was cr*p and Astra-Oxford was the gold standard.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,598

    alex_ said:

    Groceries update - my local Tesco's has had completely empty shelves. Entire rows of shelves literally empty and closed off.

    Signs up apologising and blaming a refrigeration failure. Oops.

    I bought two bottles of still water in a supermarket somewhere in the Midlands earlier today. The shelves looked full.
    Lightweight
    I am having a beer now though. In a big city centre pub. Only 5 of us in. Capacity 80 approx.
    A 'big city centre' somewhere in the Midlands. Most of the cities have quite compact centres. I'll guess Leicester, purely because of the long trek between the railway station and the bus station.
    Nottingham. It's really good here! Pub executives said that it was busier before 'Freedom Day' (Stage 4). They mentioned the students had gone home. They don't expect to be busy tomorrow.

    We are up to about 10 in now.
    I used to be a semi-regular drinker in Nottingham 20 or so years ago. The Fellows Morton and Clayton was my favourite, with an honourable mention to the Lincolnshire Poacher.
    I went to a pub called Lincolnshire Poacher in Spalding many times. It is a top pub.

    I was in Sleaford today. Has anyone else been there? Richard Tyndall??
    I always find both Sleaford and Grantham a disappointment. I grew up in Newark which is a town steeped in history and one which has retained both its original street plan and many or its original buildings although it did also knock down and redevelop some streets which today would be massively popular in an historic town.

    The trouble is that both Sleaford and Grantham have pretty much gutted their historic centres. You can't even blame the bombing as both got through the war with not much in the way of German attacks. It was all due to post war planning which has ripped the soul out of both towns. I would always recommend Newark or Stamford over either Sleaford or Grantham. Much nicer towns to walk around.
    Ok Richard thanks for your response. I knew you were/are in the area. I stayed in Grantham 2016 and I thought it was good. I have only been to Sleaford today. I also went to Stamford 2016 it was top. Never been to Newark.
    Bourne is quite a pleasant little Lincs town, which I have been out in a few times, albeit not recently. Mrs Foxy went to school there.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,499

    My theory is the more public the panto the more real negotiating that is actually going on behind the scenes.

    So, the UK and EU are both doing a bit of anchoring, and playing to the crowd, over the NI protocol.

    The Tories looking for a second go of the Brexit deal should get the same response as when we wanted a second go of the referendum.

    It’s done, you won, get over it x

    https://twitter.com/BenKellyTweets/status/1418292762382901249
This discussion has been closed.