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By signing the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago the UK made Brexit hard if not impossible – politi

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  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,579
    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    My last word on the unparliamentary language thing is in addition to being a stunt which has already achieved the only aim it had, stuff like that and the 'scum' remark from a while back just provides an easy distraction and diversion for the Tories. Precisely because they are childish stunts or comments the PM and others can go melodramatic in their outrage, they can more easily ignore what genuinely are stunts and use them when an acutally stinging criticism comes in by claiming that too is a stunt, or just refer back to the stunt to distract.

    So it is not just that it is childish, it actually helps the government, and I find that infuriating as I bet those involved think they are being so clever and funny when they do it.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rising and falling cases in the UK do seem locked into whether or not the kids are in school regardless of any sort of vaccination program or otherwise...

    Might be a coincidence but it's interesting ;)

    I'd actually guess that this is the reduction in indoor activity due to the Euros ending, schools in England are still in until today/tomorrow.
    Schools broke up 9th July here.
    Really? You bastards. I only work just beyond the Leicestershire border as well!

    I am very surprised to learn any schools are still open until tomorrow though. I thought we were late breaking up yesterday.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,080

    HUZZAH.. BORIS HATERS PLEASE NOTE....

    YOU CANNOT BLAME BORIS FOR THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT.

    THANK YOU

    You can blame Boris for having no idea what the GFA meant and what compromising it could mean.

    I try not to be too rude on here, but in your case, I'll make an exception.
    Thank you kindly. Water off a duck's back.
    Quack!
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,654
    kle4 said:

    alednam said:

    kle4 said:

    Tres said:

    Kakistocracy Watch. Parliament increasingly resembling that of a 3rd world country today with an MP being barred from the chamber for accurately calling out the PM as a liar.

    To pretend that the existence of rules on parliamentary language signify anything at all is just plain ridiculous. Lots of non third world countries have such conventions for a start. MPs don't have any problem excoriating the PM without breaching such conventions, so anyone doing it is clearly engaged in a stunt.
    But Opposiiton MPs can seem to have a hard time getting it across to people (not all of them au fait with Parliamentary conventions) that the Prime Minister is a liar.
    No they don't. He is routinely attacked in and out of the Commons for all manner of failings, including misleading people, deceiving them or being just plain untrustworthy. Calling him a liar in the Commons won't wake people up to him being a liar, people either don't believe he is or they think he is but for other reasons still support him.

    I despise childish stunts, designed to make people feel good about themselves or to get applause rather than achieve anything, and this was definitely childish, as most such stunts are. Other than that, I don't see the political or even comic value of such an act.
    I think it is pretty childish for a group of grown ups who base their careers on lying to pretend their honour has been offended by the unparliamentary language of someone calling them a liar (but only if in a certain room!). Snow flakes.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Kakistocracy Watch. Parliament increasingly resembling that of a 3rd world country today with an MP being barred from the chamber for accurately calling out the PM as a liar.

    It's unparliamentary language, isn't it?
    Is that bollox for "The Truth"
    No, just that it was a deliberate stunt to get kicked out, rather than a serious attempt to get at the truth.
    So parliamentary privilege allows you to break court injunctions, name soldiers accused of murder on Bloody Sunday but you get thrown out for accusing the Prime Minister of lying.

    https://twitter.com/adamwagner1/status/1418246124532604930?s=21
    If people want to argue the rules are stupid that's fine, but they are the rules and everyone involved knows that, playing the martyr for the oh so daring act of calling the PM a liar is just pathetic.
    I think Dawn Butler was right to raise the issue. Why has the Speaker not tackled the issue of Johnson lying at the dispatch box?

    He should be instructed (not just requested) to return to the despatch box in order to withdraw the false statements made to the house.

    I am old enough to remember when lying to the house was a resigning matter, but now lying doesn't even merit a withdrawal.

    Sovereign Parliament? My arse!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,579
    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,208
    kle4 said:

    Tres said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Kakistocracy Watch. Parliament increasingly resembling that of a 3rd world country today with an MP being barred from the chamber for accurately calling out the PM as a liar.

    It's unparliamentary language, isn't it?
    We've got an unparliamentary PM. Policing language won't help.
    His behaving poorly and having poor standards doesn't mean we have to sink to a lower level ourselves. Even if using such language were acceptable, what value does it even add? It's not a fresh accusation.
    It should not be an offence to label the PM a liar when he was sacked from a job for the offence of lying.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581
    kle4 said:

    alednam said:

    kle4 said:

    Tres said:

    Kakistocracy Watch. Parliament increasingly resembling that of a 3rd world country today with an MP being barred from the chamber for accurately calling out the PM as a liar.

    To pretend that the existence of rules on parliamentary language signify anything at all is just plain ridiculous. Lots of non third world countries have such conventions for a start. MPs don't have any problem excoriating the PM without breaching such conventions, so anyone doing it is clearly engaged in a stunt.
    But Opposiiton MPs can seem to have a hard time getting it across to people (not all of them au fait with Parliamentary conventions) that the Prime Minister is a liar.
    No they don't. He is routinely attacked in and out of the Commons for all manner of failings, including misleading people, deceiving them or being just plain untrustworthy. Calling him a liar in the Commons won't wake people up to him being a liar, people either don't believe he is or they think he is but for other reasons still support him.

    I despise childish stunts, designed to make people feel good about themselves or to get applause rather than achieve anything, and this was definitely childish, as most such stunts are. Other than that, I don't see the political or even comic value of such an act.
    A good excuse for spending the afternoon in the park rather than the House of Commons.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not technically, the GFA only prevents security checkpoints.

    It does not prevent customs posts at the Irish border if Boris decided to move the hard border from the Irish Sea to Ireland, albeit that also means the end of the EU trade deal and WTO terms for the UK

    Are you sure you get the picture?

    You might need to divert your tanks from Scotland to the Emerald Isle.
    At this rate we’re going to have more places to invade than we have tanks.
    No. HYUFD is going to have more places to invade than he has tanks.
    Well, that’s not surprising as the situation we’re in is no tanks to Hyufd.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331

    The end of the world is nigh. Unless it's just me, the Cricinfo website is down. Where else can a chap get live scores and commentary?

    The end of the world is nigh. Unless it's just me, the Cricinfo website is down. Where else can a chap get live scores and commentary?

    I hope cricinfo is ignoring the hundred in terms of player stats.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    Tres said:

    Kakistocracy Watch. Parliament increasingly resembling that of a 3rd world country today with an MP being barred from the chamber for accurately calling out the PM as a liar.

    PB Tories: Look you fools, Boris being a liar is priced in with the voters, there's no point in being naive about it.

    Someone calls Boris a liar in Parliament.

    https://youtu.be/jKHq-mAEQlU

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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,654

    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20

    Whilst the man may be an idiot as a country we need a much cheaper and quicker way of dealing with libel claims. There is no way it should be costing £100k let alone £500k.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    That's where they're going:

    Danish military spots Iranian navy ships in Baltic Sea

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1418245280600891397?s=20

    On their way to a Russian military parade, apparently.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,579
    The proportion of people aged 20 to 29 testing positive for Covid in England has hit record levels, officials say.
    Public Health England's figures show, in the last week, 1,155 people in their 20s tested positive for every 100,000 in the population.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57933108
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not technically, the GFA only prevents security checkpoints.

    It does not prevent customs posts at the Irish border if Boris decided to move the hard border from the Irish Sea to Ireland, albeit that also means the end of the EU trade deal and WTO terms for the UK

    Are you sure you get the picture?

    You might need to divert your tanks from Scotland to the Emerald Isle.
    At this rate we’re going to have more places to invade than we have tanks.
    No. HYUFD is going to have more places to invade than he has tanks.
    Well, that’s not surprising as the situation we’re in is no tanks to Hyufd.
    I Grant that he is over fond of AFVs. Perhaps he was a Chieftan in a former life?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299

    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20

    Whilst the man may be an idiot as a country we need a much cheaper and quicker way of dealing with libel claims. There is no way it should be costing £100k let alone £500k.
    I don’t think you understand just how much work the legal teams put in to cases like this.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544

    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20

    Whilst the man may be an idiot as a country we need a much cheaper and quicker way of dealing with libel claims. There is no way it should be costing £100k let alone £500k.
    That is true. Does a Syrian schoolboy refugee have £100 000 worth of reputation to damage?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,867
    Why didn't she just quote Dom calling BoZo a liar?

    Surely that can't be unparliamentary?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20

    Whilst the man may be an idiot as a country we need a much cheaper and quicker way of dealing with libel claims. There is no way it should be costing £100k let alone £500k.
    The problem is that once you get to court, the sums can quickly escalate towards insanity.
  • Options
    ManciniMancini Posts: 9

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Kakistocracy Watch. Parliament increasingly resembling that of a 3rd world country today with an MP being barred from the chamber for accurately calling out the PM as a liar.

    It's unparliamentary language, isn't it?

    We’re now going to do that whole ritualistic thing where people say “it’s a disgrace! Dawn Butler was telling the truth! Solidarity!” when the reality is she knows the rule, she knows the score, and she was just grandstanding.


    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1418227484613509121
    Cancel culture in action once again.
    All politics these days seems to be driven by politicians who have one eye on social media.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390
    Tres said:

    Kakistocracy Watch. Parliament increasingly resembling that of a 3rd world country today with an MP being barred from the chamber for accurately calling out the PM as a liar.

    Quite right too.
    The Parliamentary term is bluffing bullshitter.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,654

    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20

    Whilst the man may be an idiot as a country we need a much cheaper and quicker way of dealing with libel claims. There is no way it should be costing £100k let alone £500k.
    I don’t think you understand just how much work the legal teams put in to cases like this.
    That is irrelevant. I am saying they should spend less time.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,251
    Breaking

    39, 906 new cases and 84 deaths
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not technically, the GFA only prevents security checkpoints.

    It does not prevent customs posts at the Irish border if Boris decided to move the hard border from the Irish Sea to Ireland, albeit that also means the end of the EU trade deal and WTO terms for the UK

    Are you sure you get the picture?

    You might need to divert your tanks from Scotland to the Emerald Isle.
    At this rate we’re going to have more places to invade than we have tanks.
    No. HYUFD is going to have more places to invade than he has tanks.
    Well, that’s not surprising as the situation we’re in is no tanks to Hyufd.
    I Grant that he is over fond of AFVs. Perhaps he was a Chieftan in a former life?
    He's a challenger of preconceptions about how an elected member thinks for sure.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581

    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20

    Whilst the man may be an idiot as a country we need a much cheaper and quicker way of dealing with libel claims. There is no way it should be costing £100k let alone £500k.
    I don’t think you understand just how much work the legal teams put in to cases like this.
    Down at the Porsche dealership?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not technically, the GFA only prevents security checkpoints.

    It does not prevent customs posts at the Irish border if Boris decided to move the hard border from the Irish Sea to Ireland, albeit that also means the end of the EU trade deal and WTO terms for the UK

    Are you sure you get the picture?

    You might need to divert your tanks from Scotland to the Emerald Isle.
    At this rate we’re going to have more places to invade than we have tanks.
    No. HYUFD is going to have more places to invade than he has tanks.
    Well, that’s not surprising as the situation we’re in is no tanks to Hyufd.
    I Grant that he is over fond of AFVs. Perhaps he was a Chieftan in a former life?
    He's a challenger of preconceptions about how an elected member thinks for sure.
    I expect that he would get a Patton the back for his staunch Unionism.
  • Options
    ManciniMancini Posts: 9
    Scott_xP said:

    Why didn't she just quote Dom calling BoZo a liar?

    Surely that can't be unparliamentary?

    That would require a bit of thought
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    This is a joke, right?
  • Options
    ManciniMancini Posts: 9
    HSBC BA and other websites are down

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57929544
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not technically, the GFA only prevents security checkpoints.

    It does not prevent customs posts at the Irish border if Boris decided to move the hard border from the Irish Sea to Ireland, albeit that also means the end of the EU trade deal and WTO terms for the UK

    Are you sure you get the picture?

    You might need to divert your tanks from Scotland to the Emerald Isle.
    At this rate we’re going to have more places to invade than we have tanks.
    No. HYUFD is going to have more places to invade than he has tanks.
    Well, that’s not surprising as the situation we’re in is no tanks to Hyufd.
    I Grant that he is over fond of AFVs. Perhaps he was a Chieftan in a former life?
    He's a challenger of preconceptions about how an elected member thinks for sure.
    I expect that he would get a Patton the back for his staunch Unionism.
    A Crusader for the cause!
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    felix said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 41% (+1)
    LAB: 34% (-1)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 5% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (=)

    Via @SavantaComRes, 16-18 Jul.
    Changes from 9-11 Jul.


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1418202548746559488?s=20

    Look like "inevitable Tory slide" delayed yet again...

    Oops a daisy. We keep on 'being here before' don't we. Almost as if the knowitalls haven't got a clue..
    Not exactly. This is a near repeat of what appeared to be a wild outlier (5% lead when everyone else was showing 10-13). It provides modest supporting evidence for the suggestion (cf. Survation) that the Tory lead, although still there, is declining. It'll be interesting to see the next YouGov.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021

    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20

    I have always been intrigued by how he manages to sustain his lifestyle.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,131
    edited July 2021

    From Ursula von der Leyen's Twitter feed:

    PM @BorisJohnson called to present the UK Command paper on the Irish/Northern Irish Protocol.

    The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

    We must jointly ensure stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1418163146947239940

    That's is quite extraordinarily cold. Not even a 'we had a constructive discussion' or 'we agreed to continue talking'.

    If Boris thinks Lord Frost's bizarre antics are going to work, he's an even prizer prize fool than we all thought.

    Are we sure this rather unorthodox government wouldn't welcome a nice big running spat with the evil empire?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,028
    kinabalu said:

    From Ursula von der Leyen's Twitter feed:

    PM @BorisJohnson called to present the UK Command paper on the Irish/Northern Irish Protocol.

    The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

    We must jointly ensure stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1418163146947239940

    That's is quite extraordinarily cold. Not even a 'we had a constructive discussion' or 'we agreed to continue talking'.

    If Boris thinks Lord Frost's bizarre antics are going to work, he's an even prizer prize fool than we all thought.

    Nasty thought but are we sure this rather unorthodox government wouldn't welcome a nice big running spat with the evil empire?
    Boris could do his Reagan impersonation: "Ursula von der Leyen, tear down this trade barrier!"
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,251
    kinabalu said:

    From Ursula von der Leyen's Twitter feed:

    PM @BorisJohnson called to present the UK Command paper on the Irish/Northern Irish Protocol.

    The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

    We must jointly ensure stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1418163146947239940

    That's is quite extraordinarily cold. Not even a 'we had a constructive discussion' or 'we agreed to continue talking'.

    If Boris thinks Lord Frost's bizarre antics are going to work, he's an even prizer prize fool than we all thought.

    Are we sure this rather unorthodox government wouldn't welcome a nice big running spat with the evil empire?
    Actually I think Boris is very content to have a fight with the EU rightly or wrongly
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021

    felix said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 41% (+1)
    LAB: 34% (-1)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 5% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (=)

    Via @SavantaComRes, 16-18 Jul.
    Changes from 9-11 Jul.


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1418202548746559488?s=20

    Look like "inevitable Tory slide" delayed yet again...

    Oops a daisy. We keep on 'being here before' don't we. Almost as if the knowitalls haven't got a clue..
    Not exactly. This is a near repeat of what appeared to be a wild outlier (5% lead when everyone else was showing 10-13). It provides modest supporting evidence for the suggestion (cf. Survation) that the Tory lead, although still there, is declining. It'll be interesting to see the next YouGov.
    Erhh this poll shows an increased lead on their previous poll....and average is still 9-10%, as it has been for months.
  • Options
    SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,248
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20

    Whilst the man may be an idiot as a country we need a much cheaper and quicker way of dealing with libel claims. There is no way it should be costing £100k let alone £500k.
    That is true. Does a Syrian schoolboy refugee have £100 000 worth of reputation to damage?
    Probably. The allegations from Tommy Robinson were of the most serious nature - falsely claiming the boy had violently attacked young girls. If that shows up against your name with a Google search, that's probably going to affect your university prospects, career prospects and so on. To be honest, I think £100k is on the low side.

    And they achieved very wide circulation - Tommy Robinson is a well known figure who, before his ban, had well over 100,000 Twitter followers, even before you consider retweets etc.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,867
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161
    edited July 2021
    Mancini said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Why didn't she just quote Dom calling BoZo a liar?

    Surely that can't be unparliamentary?

    That would require a bit of thought
    deleted
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322

    felix said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 41% (+1)
    LAB: 34% (-1)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 5% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (=)

    Via @SavantaComRes, 16-18 Jul.
    Changes from 9-11 Jul.


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1418202548746559488?s=20

    Look like "inevitable Tory slide" delayed yet again...

    Oops a daisy. We keep on 'being here before' don't we. Almost as if the knowitalls haven't got a clue..
    Not exactly. This is a near repeat of what appeared to be a wild outlier (5% lead when everyone else was showing 10-13). It provides modest supporting evidence for the suggestion (cf. Survation) that the Tory lead, although still there, is declining. It'll be interesting to see the next YouGov.
    Erhh this poll shows an increased lead on their previous poll....and average is still 9-10%, as it has been for months.
    Yes, but it's still lower than anyone else except Survation, and lower than previous leads.

    We'll see - not making any special claims beyond it being possibly an indicator.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,867

    kinabalu said:

    From Ursula von der Leyen's Twitter feed:

    PM @BorisJohnson called to present the UK Command paper on the Irish/Northern Irish Protocol.

    The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

    We must jointly ensure stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1418163146947239940

    That's is quite extraordinarily cold. Not even a 'we had a constructive discussion' or 'we agreed to continue talking'.

    If Boris thinks Lord Frost's bizarre antics are going to work, he's an even prizer prize fool than we all thought.

    Are we sure this rather unorthodox government wouldn't welcome a nice big running spat with the evil empire?
    Actually I think Boris is very content to have a fight with the EU rightly or wrongly
    Read an FT article about the Protocol today, and it said the Irish were hoping that Biden would put pressure on Boris and the UK to compromise with the Irish/EU

    The article added that, however, Boris does not give a fuck what Biden says or thinks, so the Irish were being optimistic
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987

    felix said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 41% (+1)
    LAB: 34% (-1)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 5% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (=)

    Via @SavantaComRes, 16-18 Jul.
    Changes from 9-11 Jul.


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1418202548746559488?s=20

    Look like "inevitable Tory slide" delayed yet again...

    Oops a daisy. We keep on 'being here before' don't we. Almost as if the knowitalls haven't got a clue..
    Not exactly. This is a near repeat of what appeared to be a wild outlier (5% lead when everyone else was showing 10-13). It provides modest supporting evidence for the suggestion (cf. Survation) that the Tory lead, although still there, is declining. It'll be interesting to see the next YouGov.
    Erhh this poll shows an increased lead on their previous poll....and average is still 9-10%, as it has been for months.
    Running average Tory lead is currently 8.7%, down from 10.2% a month ago.

    If you round the numbers to 9-10% then you are correct.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Most - hey we have examples here of posters who never check their facts and continue to post their views even after being corrected.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    kinabalu said:

    From Ursula von der Leyen's Twitter feed:

    PM @BorisJohnson called to present the UK Command paper on the Irish/Northern Irish Protocol.

    The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

    We must jointly ensure stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1418163146947239940

    That's is quite extraordinarily cold. Not even a 'we had a constructive discussion' or 'we agreed to continue talking'.

    If Boris thinks Lord Frost's bizarre antics are going to work, he's an even prizer prize fool than we all thought.

    Are we sure this rather unorthodox government wouldn't welcome a nice big running spat with the evil empire?
    Keeping the Brexit issue alive until 2023 is one route to hold onto the majority. Making Labour look like they will sell Brexit out with alignment deals and other EU demands will get people out to vote again.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021

    felix said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 41% (+1)
    LAB: 34% (-1)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 5% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (=)

    Via @SavantaComRes, 16-18 Jul.
    Changes from 9-11 Jul.


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1418202548746559488?s=20

    Look like "inevitable Tory slide" delayed yet again...

    Oops a daisy. We keep on 'being here before' don't we. Almost as if the knowitalls haven't got a clue..
    Not exactly. This is a near repeat of what appeared to be a wild outlier (5% lead when everyone else was showing 10-13). It provides modest supporting evidence for the suggestion (cf. Survation) that the Tory lead, although still there, is declining. It'll be interesting to see the next YouGov.
    Erhh this poll shows an increased lead on their previous poll....and average is still 9-10%, as it has been for months.
    Yes, but it's still lower than anyone else except Survation, and lower than previous leads.

    We'll see - not making any special claims beyond it being possibly an indicator.
    But again this is Tories in and around the 42% they have been for months. This is just another poll where the lead difference is how the centre left vote sorts itsself out i.e. lib dems lower than other polls.

    The one the other day is I think the only one we have seen where labour and lib dems up at the higher levels of where we have seen them. This to me is just yet another MoE from Tories 42, Labour pick your value anywhere from 30-35.

    So again this to me is just yet another poll showing that the Tories aren't losing their own suppprt base (yet). The lead is then always how much goes to labour, how much to lib dems.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,028
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    From Ursula von der Leyen's Twitter feed:

    PM @BorisJohnson called to present the UK Command paper on the Irish/Northern Irish Protocol.

    The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

    We must jointly ensure stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1418163146947239940

    That's is quite extraordinarily cold. Not even a 'we had a constructive discussion' or 'we agreed to continue talking'.

    If Boris thinks Lord Frost's bizarre antics are going to work, he's an even prizer prize fool than we all thought.

    Are we sure this rather unorthodox government wouldn't welcome a nice big running spat with the evil empire?
    Actually I think Boris is very content to have a fight with the EU rightly or wrongly
    Read an FT article about the Protocol today, and it said the Irish were hoping that Biden would put pressure on Boris and the UK to compromise with the Irish/EU

    The article added that, however, Boris does not give a fuck what Biden says or thinks, so the Irish were being optimistic
    It's amazing how much certain Irish commentators use the US as a crutch. They seem to think that all it will take for the UK to bend to their will is for Biden to stall on a trade deal, and similarly that if only the US would give its blessing for the UK to follow EU rules, then all the UK's objections to it would disappear.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,496

    That's where they're going:

    Danish military spots Iranian navy ships in Baltic Sea

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1418245280600891397?s=20

    If they are looking for the north west passage they needed to turn left instead of right at Finisterre.

  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    The fact Frankfurt is the world's dullest place (it isn't I can think of way worse) is one reason why companies did whatever they could be avoid moving there.

    If a decent city with nightlife had been the number 2 centre in europe things may have been different.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,131

    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20

    I have always been intrigued by how he manages to sustain his lifestyle.
    I think there's a dark web OnlyFans where for £50 you get an intimate one-on-one and the opportunity to explore with him how "CRT" is undermining the fabric of white Christian civilization. Sneer ye not. There are many subscribers.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,028
    Things can only get bitter:
    image
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,251
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    The end of the world is nigh. Unless it's just me, the Cricinfo website is down. Where else can a chap get live scores and commentary?

    loads of sites are down including stream - so a content delivery network has broken something within themselves.
    Amazon is blaming Akamai. Not sure on what evidence.

    ETA IBM is also blaming Akamai.

    Akamai says they've now fixed their problem:-
    Jul 22, 2021
    Edge DNS Service Incident
    Resolved - This incident has been mitigated.
    Jul 22, 17:09 UTC
    Investigating - We are aware of an emerging issue with the Edge DNS service.

    We are actively investigating the issue. If you have questions or are experiencing impact due to this issue, please contact Akamai Technical Support. In the interest of time, we are providing you the most current information available, which is subject to changes, corrections, and updates.
    Jul 22, 16:09 UTC

    https://edgedns.status.akamai.com/
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,867
    The fine art of Brexit statements. MEPs call on the UK government “to show flexibility and pragmatism”. https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1418260333223886849/photo/1
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418260236213891083

    Oddly, this survey suggests you are significantly more likely to say you have experienced 'food shortages' if you are a Remainer, or voted LibDem...

    Make of that what you will!

    #pingdemic
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,867
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    The fact Frankfurt is the world's dullest place (it isn't I can think of way worse) is one reason why companies did whatever they could be avoid moving there.

    If a decent city with nightlife had been the number 2 centre in europe things may have been different.
    That French city, what's it called, you know - yes - Paris, is apparently quite pleasant. Yet they didn't really flock there either

    London is unique because of its size, time zone, location, pool of talent, common law, and the English language, so even though it has been knocked by Brexit it was never likely to be toppled

    Covid, however...

  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    eek said:

    The end of the world is nigh. Unless it's just me, the Cricinfo website is down. Where else can a chap get live scores and commentary?

    loads of sites are down including stream - so a content delivery network has broken something within themselves.
    Amazon is blaming Akamai. Not sure on what evidence.
    it's Akamai DNS by the looks of it which is designed to bring your DNS queries closer to your supplier.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021
    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418260236213891083

    Oddly, this survey suggests you are significantly more likely to say you have experienced 'food shortages' if you are a Remainer, or voted LibDem...

    Make of that what you will!

    #pingdemic

    Waitrose supply change is struggling more than Morrisons or Asda?

    I had no issue with my grocery delivery today.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,867

    Things can only get bitter:
    image

    So race relations began to seriously decline under Obama??
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391

    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418260236213891083

    Oddly, this survey suggests you are significantly more likely to say you have experienced 'food shortages' if you are a Remainer, or voted LibDem...

    Make of that what you will!

    #pingdemic

    Waitrose supply change is struggling more than Morrisons or Asda?

    I had no issue with my grocery delivery today.
    I suspect it's more likely to be people's politics colouring their perception of reality.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,867
    ...
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    The fact Frankfurt is the world's dullest place (it isn't I can think of way worse) is one reason why companies did whatever they could be avoid moving there.

    If a decent city with nightlife had been the number 2 centre in europe things may have been different.
    That French city, what's it called, you know - yes - Paris, is apparently quite pleasant. Yet they didn't really flock there either

    London is unique because of its size, time zone, location, pool of talent, common law, and the English language, so even though it has been knocked by Brexit it was never likely to be toppled

    Covid, however...

    I was going to say Paris and instantly thought - income tax, employment law, law generally .... it's a none starter.

    Had France none of those issues I suspect things would be different.

    As for Covid - nothing that will occur now wouldn't have occurred over the next 20 years - communication links are such that you people being in the office 5 days a week is probably a big constraint on productivity.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Leon said:

    Things can only get bitter:
    image

    So race relations began to seriously decline under Obama??
    Bit unfair to blame him. More likely the new cadre of race baiting grievance professors. Focussing on race rather than trying to be colourblind was always going to make things worse.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,496
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    An excellent commentary as always from Mike Smithson. These thoughts are from one who supported Brexit but wanted 'Norway for Now' in the belief that a long term process was essential.

    1) If Brexit and GFA are actually incompatible then Remain incomprehensibly failed to say so, and failed to say what the limits on Brexit would be. That is because they are not incompatible.

    2) The UK and the RoI are sovereign states (the sort with seats at the UN and armies).

    3) The EU is an extensive trade association, and not a state.

    4) If it is realistic to say that the UK can bend its sovereignty red lines to the extent of separating the GB and the NI internal market as the protocol requires, it is realistic to say that the EU can bend its trade association rules to contain an anomaly which protects the interests of one of their members, the RoI, and those of a friendly neighbour with equivalently high standards, the UK.

    5) Which obvious truth is why Remain did not campaign on the basis that a (non EFTA) Brexit was impossible.

    Remain certainly pointed out that Brexit meant a border on the land unless other solutions were found. These didn't have to be EFTA, for example May's Deal, or even simply dynamic alignment on standards. The fact that the English media ignored the Irish dimension doesn't mean that it was not raised.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-49988057
    I agree, but my point still stands.

  • Options
    SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,248
    edited July 2021

    Oh dear, what a shame....

    Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is looking at legal costs in the ballpark of ***£500,000*** after losing his libel action against a Syrian teenage refugee - that excludes anything he may owe his former lawyers.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1418213484710350866?s=20

    I have always been intrigued by how he manages to sustain his lifestyle.
    There is a LOT of money in being a far right social influencer.

    There are extremely wealthy philanthropists with far right views who are happy (often quite publicly) to chip in large sums to fund people who they consider effective influencers of the great unwashed.

    And there are well funded far right groups all over the world who exist precisely to do that too.

    How do the far right groups get their money? Some from the generosity of morons, for sure. But there are also state actors whose foreign policy involves strengthening their own position by destabilising others. Do a few roubles find their way, via intermediaries, to some of these groups? You might think that, Mr Urquhart.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    Off-topic:

    The Russians launched their science module to the ISS yesterday, which should have been launched thirteen years ago. It appears to be having issues:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauka_(ISS_module)

    Almost as bad as the James Webb Space Telescope (which, incidentally, might have to be renamed as Webb apparently presided over some discriminatory policies when he was head of NASA in the 1960s. You see, even space has something for the cancel culture.)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021
    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418260236213891083

    Oddly, this survey suggests you are significantly more likely to say you have experienced 'food shortages' if you are a Remainer, or voted LibDem...

    Make of that what you will!

    #pingdemic

    Waitrose supply change is struggling more than Morrisons or Asda?

    I had no issue with my grocery delivery today.
    I suspect it's more likely to be people's politics colouring their perception of reality.
    I was joking. There clearly is an issue, but i am also sure people who previously never batted an eye lid at Sainsbury's having empty fresh food produce boxes (and in my experience they are particularly bad in my local one for donkeys years of you went at certain times of the day) now ascribe it instantly to Brexit / pingdemic.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,654
    Leon said:

    Things can only get bitter:
    image

    So race relations began to seriously decline under Obama??
    Yes about the time a race baiting Republican pretended he was born in Kenya. Quelle surprise.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    From Ursula von der Leyen's Twitter feed:

    PM @BorisJohnson called to present the UK Command paper on the Irish/Northern Irish Protocol.

    The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

    We must jointly ensure stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1418163146947239940

    That's is quite extraordinarily cold. Not even a 'we had a constructive discussion' or 'we agreed to continue talking'.

    If Boris thinks Lord Frost's bizarre antics are going to work, he's an even prizer prize fool than we all thought.

    Are we sure this rather unorthodox government wouldn't welcome a nice big running spat with the evil empire?
    Actually I think Boris is very content to have a fight with the EU rightly or wrongly
    Read an FT article about the Protocol today, and it said the Irish were hoping that Biden would put pressure on Boris and the UK to compromise with the Irish/EU

    The article added that, however, Boris does not give a fuck what Biden says or thinks, so the Irish were being optimistic
    It's amazing how much certain Irish commentators use the US as a crutch. They seem to think that all it will take for the UK to bend to their will is for Biden to stall on a trade deal, and similarly that if only the US would give its blessing for the UK to follow EU rules, then all the UK's objections to it would disappear.
    Yeah, Ireland has fallen into the life of siding with the biggest bully and hoping that the bully will fight their battles for them. Biden gives no fucks about Ireland, he's proposed a tax regime that will decimate Ireland's national economy and will push ahead with or without their agreement.

    Ireland won't lose out from the 15% rate, that's a nothing increase on the 12.5% rate they currently have what they will lose from is the 0% rates that companies use to dodge all taxes and once that's gone so are Apple and the rest of them. Biden and his team know that this will completely and utterly fuck Ireland and yet they're still pushing for it. On the other side, Biden and his team have listened to Rishi's argument on the global banking sector being exempt and accepted it.

    It's almost as though Biden being ancestrally Irish means nothing.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Absolutely delightful case numbers!
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,583
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Isn't there a well-established effect whereby the more intelligent you are the less open to persuasion by alternative points of view, and the more likely you are to 'mould' the facts to support your beliefs?

    PS Do you have any friends who are not 'lefty Remainers'?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    Off-topic:

    The Russians launched their science module to the ISS yesterday, which should have been launched thirteen years ago. It appears to be having issues:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauka_(ISS_module)

    Almost as bad as the James Webb Space Telescope (which, incidentally, might have to be renamed as Webb apparently presided over some discriminatory policies when he was head of NASA in the 1960s. You see, even space has something for the cancel culture.)

    Given that some of the people who were discriminated against are still alive I suspect that renaming is way more justifiable than a lot of other cases.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418260236213891083

    Oddly, this survey suggests you are significantly more likely to say you have experienced 'food shortages' if you are a Remainer, or voted LibDem...

    Make of that what you will!

    #pingdemic

    Waitrose supply change is struggling more than Morrisons or Asda?

    I had no issue with my grocery delivery today.
    I suspect it's more likely to be people's politics colouring their perception of reality.
    I was joking. There clearly is an issue, but i am also sure people who previously never batted an eye lid at Sainsbury's having empty fresh food produce boxes (and in my experience they are particularly bad in my local one for donkeys years of you went at certain times of the day) now ascribe it instantly to Brexit / pingdemic.
    Fair enough, apologies.

    Yes - weather like this boosts grocery sales by c. 10% - you'd have the odd empty shelve in the hottest week of the year regardless of anything else happening.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544
    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    An excellent commentary as always from Mike Smithson. These thoughts are from one who supported Brexit but wanted 'Norway for Now' in the belief that a long term process was essential.

    1) If Brexit and GFA are actually incompatible then Remain incomprehensibly failed to say so, and failed to say what the limits on Brexit would be. That is because they are not incompatible.

    2) The UK and the RoI are sovereign states (the sort with seats at the UN and armies).

    3) The EU is an extensive trade association, and not a state.

    4) If it is realistic to say that the UK can bend its sovereignty red lines to the extent of separating the GB and the NI internal market as the protocol requires, it is realistic to say that the EU can bend its trade association rules to contain an anomaly which protects the interests of one of their members, the RoI, and those of a friendly neighbour with equivalently high standards, the UK.

    5) Which obvious truth is why Remain did not campaign on the basis that a (non EFTA) Brexit was impossible.

    Remain certainly pointed out that Brexit meant a border on the land unless other solutions were found. These didn't have to be EFTA, for example May's Deal, or even simply dynamic alignment on standards. The fact that the English media ignored the Irish dimension doesn't mean that it was not raised.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-49988057
    I agree, but my point still stands.

    I am not sure what your point was in that case.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,598

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not technically, the GFA only prevents security checkpoints.

    It does not prevent customs posts at the Irish border if Boris decided to move the hard border from the Irish Sea to Ireland, albeit that also means the end of the EU trade deal and WTO terms for the UK

    Are you sure you get the picture?

    You might need to divert your tanks from Scotland to the Emerald Isle.
    At this rate we’re going to have more places to invade than we have tanks.
    No. HYUFD is going to have more places to invade than he has tanks.
    Well, that’s not surprising as the situation we’re in is no tanks to Hyufd.
    I Grant that he is over fond of AFVs. Perhaps he was a Chieftan in a former life?
    He's a challenger of preconceptions about how an elected member thinks for sure.
    I expect that he would get a Patton the back for his staunch Unionism.
    A Crusader for the cause!
    Just wait till you had to change a broken fan belt ...

    HYUFD's certanly no anti-Stuart Covenanter, but a Cavalier I should think. Churchill's more his hero than Cromwell, though there are times when he seems to hark back to the Conqueror in his attitudes to the North. If not to the Ark.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    alex_ said:

    Cookie said:

    39,906 cases
    84 deaths...

    Two days in a row we've significantly undershot expectations for positives.
    Deaths is high, but over a quarter of that is Scotland (which seems to have some data issue with lumpy Thursdays?)
    And deaths are going to lag anyway
    Yes, deaths will remain stubbornly high for ages - there's always an absolute shit tonne of backdating on them.
    Yeah, using day of report for deaths is a fools errand. I'd say there is almost a fortnight lag on getting good death numbers.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    From Ursula von der Leyen's Twitter feed:

    PM @BorisJohnson called to present the UK Command paper on the Irish/Northern Irish Protocol.

    The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

    We must jointly ensure stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1418163146947239940

    That's is quite extraordinarily cold. Not even a 'we had a constructive discussion' or 'we agreed to continue talking'.

    If Boris thinks Lord Frost's bizarre antics are going to work, he's an even prizer prize fool than we all thought.

    Are we sure this rather unorthodox government wouldn't welcome a nice big running spat with the evil empire?
    Actually I think Boris is very content to have a fight with the EU rightly or wrongly
    Read an FT article about the Protocol today, and it said the Irish were hoping that Biden would put pressure on Boris and the UK to compromise with the Irish/EU

    The article added that, however, Boris does not give a fuck what Biden says or thinks, so the Irish were being optimistic
    It's amazing how much certain Irish commentators use the US as a crutch. They seem to think that all it will take for the UK to bend to their will is for Biden to stall on a trade deal, and similarly that if only the US would give its blessing for the UK to follow EU rules, then all the UK's objections to it would disappear.
    Yeah, Ireland has fallen into the life of siding with the biggest bully and hoping that the bully will fight their battles for them. Biden gives no fucks about Ireland, he's proposed a tax regime that will decimate Ireland's national economy and will push ahead with or without their agreement.

    Ireland won't lose out from the 15% rate, that's a nothing increase on the 12.5% rate they currently have what they will lose from is the 0% rates that companies use to dodge all taxes and once that's gone so are Apple and the rest of them. Biden and his team know that this will completely and utterly fuck Ireland and yet they're still pushing for it. On the other side, Biden and his team have listened to Rishi's argument on the global banking sector being exempt and accepted it.

    It's almost as though Biden being ancestrally Irish means nothing.
    It's almost Rishi had valid reasons within his argument that the Ireland concessions just didn't have.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,066
    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418260236213891083

    Oddly, this survey suggests you are significantly more likely to say you have experienced 'food shortages' if you are a Remainer, or voted LibDem...

    Make of that what you will!

    #pingdemic

    Maybe Leavers don't eat fresh food?
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581
    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418260236213891083

    Oddly, this survey suggests you are significantly more likely to say you have experienced 'food shortages' if you are a Remainer, or voted LibDem...

    Make of that what you will!

    #pingdemic

    It must be disproportionately affecting supplies of Good Brie.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,598

    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418260236213891083

    Oddly, this survey suggests you are significantly more likely to say you have experienced 'food shortages' if you are a Remainer, or voted LibDem...

    Make of that what you will!

    #pingdemic

    Maybe Leavers don't eat fresh food?
    Just wait till KFC runs out. They'll need the Epping Yeomanry with their sabres to keep order.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,583
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Matt's on form this week!
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Isn't there a well-established effect whereby the more intelligent you are the less open to persuasion by alternative points of view, and the more likely you are to 'mould' the facts to support your beliefs?

    PS Do you have any friends who are not 'lefty Remainers'?
    It's difficult to exist in London and not.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,867

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Isn't there a well-established effect whereby the more intelligent you are the less open to persuasion by alternative points of view, and the more likely you are to 'mould' the facts to support your beliefs?

    PS Do you have any friends who are not 'lefty Remainers'?
    I certainly have way more lefty Remainer friends than Brexiteers - I live in north London and move in quite arty/lefty circles, it's what you get

    I have some Tory friends but actual Leavers? - there is one. Possibly two - tho the second is a Corbynite Leaver. That's it, I think. I have a couple more who really agonised over the decision but, I think, went Remain in the end because they own London property

    My family is much more Leavery - but they don't live in London

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021
    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1418260236213891083

    Oddly, this survey suggests you are significantly more likely to say you have experienced 'food shortages' if you are a Remainer, or voted LibDem...

    Make of that what you will!

    #pingdemic

    Waitrose supply change is struggling more than Morrisons or Asda?

    I had no issue with my grocery delivery today.
    I suspect it's more likely to be people's politics colouring their perception of reality.
    I was joking. There clearly is an issue, but i am also sure people who previously never batted an eye lid at Sainsbury's having empty fresh food produce boxes (and in my experience they are particularly bad in my local one for donkeys years of you went at certain times of the day) now ascribe it instantly to Brexit / pingdemic.
    Fair enough, apologies.

    Yes - weather like this boosts grocery sales by c. 10% - you'd have the odd empty shelve in the hottest week of the year regardless of anything else happening.
    I also wonder if you are located in a big busy urban setting if the volume of food sold per store is significantly higher and they require more deliveries per week to maintaince fully stocked shelves. Thus, with the pressure in the supply chain, and gaps become much more noticeable.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,066

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Isn't there a well-established effect whereby the more intelligent you are the less open to persuasion by alternative points of view, and the more likely you are to 'mould' the facts to support your beliefs?

    PS Do you have any friends who are not 'lefty Remainers'?
    He also has a whole cadre of young female Corbynista admirers IIRC. All these lefty friends conform to every Daily Mail stereotype and can be relied upon to say the kind of idiotic thing that I have never heard anybody say in real life. These people are 100% not a figment of his over-active imagination.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,251
    eek said:

    eek said:

    The end of the world is nigh. Unless it's just me, the Cricinfo website is down. Where else can a chap get live scores and commentary?

    loads of sites are down including stream - so a content delivery network has broken something within themselves.
    Amazon is blaming Akamai. Not sure on what evidence.
    it's Akamai DNS by the looks of it which is designed to bring your DNS queries closer to your supplier.
    Yes, I've updated the earlier post with Akamai's statement. (I used to do this for a living. No wonder they got rid of me!)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,867

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Isn't there a well-established effect whereby the more intelligent you are the less open to persuasion by alternative points of view, and the more likely you are to 'mould' the facts to support your beliefs?

    PS Do you have any friends who are not 'lefty Remainers'?
    He also has a whole cadre of young female Corbynista admirers IIRC. All these lefty friends conform to every Daily Mail stereotype and can be relied upon to say the kind of idiotic thing that I have never heard anybody say in real life. These people are 100% not a figment of his over-active imagination.
    Do you really believe that? Why would I invent such a humdrum anecdote? It's pointless

    If I make things up - and I do - I strive to make them outrageous or entertaining
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,867
    Hmmmm. The Hundred not doing it for me so far
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,066
    Leon said:

    Things can only get bitter:
    image

    So race relations began to seriously decline under Obama??
    You don't get much more uppity than getting yourself elected president of the United States.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    If you want some patented Alistair gloom to break your sunny optimism what we could be seeing here is the Football spike unwinding but the underlying slow increase continuing, so next week we will see a rise in cases.

    If you look at Andy vs excellent chart last week was a big uptick off the trend and this week is more in line with where the trend would have been if not for the footie surge.

    I'm slightly suspicious that Scotland's fall is about to level off.

    Hopefully I am wrong on all counts.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,066
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Isn't there a well-established effect whereby the more intelligent you are the less open to persuasion by alternative points of view, and the more likely you are to 'mould' the facts to support your beliefs?

    PS Do you have any friends who are not 'lefty Remainers'?
    He also has a whole cadre of young female Corbynista admirers IIRC. All these lefty friends conform to every Daily Mail stereotype and can be relied upon to say the kind of idiotic thing that I have never heard anybody say in real life. These people are 100% not a figment of his over-active imagination.
    Do you really believe that? Why would I invent such a humdrum anecdote? It's pointless

    If I make things up - and I do - I strive to make them outrageous or entertaining
    It's the banality of evil, innit.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Isn't there a well-established effect whereby the more intelligent you are the less open to persuasion by alternative points of view, and the more likely you are to 'mould' the facts to support your beliefs?

    PS Do you have any friends who are not 'lefty Remainers'?
    He also has a whole cadre of young female Corbynista admirers IIRC. All these lefty friends conform to every Daily Mail stereotype and can be relied upon to say the kind of idiotic thing that I have never heard anybody say in real life. These people are 100% not a figment of his over-active imagination.
    I dunno. My Albanian cabbie told me that he heard the same story from a passenger just the other day.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    On topic: I don't think that's quite right. Yes, the Northern Ireland Protocol is inconsistent with the particularly ideological, irrational and self-harming version of Brexit which Boris and Lord Frost have gone for, but that was entirely their choice. It's not inconsistent with the vision of Brexit touted by the Brexiteers during the referendum and still available for all to see on their website:

    http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html

    So that page says we will have the ability to sign our own trade deals - so that means out of the Customs Union and having a customs border between UK and EU.

    That page also says we'd end the supremacy of EU law and EU courts - so that means having our own laws and not having alignment or the Single Market.

    So what exactly should be compromised on in your eyes?
    Oh, only minor things like:

    There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. The heart of what we all want is the continuation of tariff-free trade with minimal bureaucracy. Countries as far away as Australia have Mutual Recognition agreements with the EU that deal with complex customs (and other ‘non-tariff barrier’) issues. We will do the same.
    ...
    Overall, the negotiations will create a new European institutional architecture that enables all countries, whether in or out of the EU or euro, to trade freely and cooperate in a friendly way. In particular, we will negotiate a UK-EU Treaty that enables us 1) to continue cooperating in many areas just as now (e.g. maritime surveillance), 2) to deepen cooperation in some areas (e.g. scientific collaborations and counter-terrorism), and 3) to continue free trade with minimal bureaucracy.

    Seems like a very good idea and Australia isn't in the EEA of course or subject to dynamic alignment with the EU.

    What part of that has the UK subsequently not gone for?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,583
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Isn't there a well-established effect whereby the more intelligent you are the less open to persuasion by alternative points of view, and the more likely you are to 'mould' the facts to support your beliefs?

    PS Do you have any friends who are not 'lefty Remainers'?
    I certainly have way more lefty Remainer friends than Brexiteers - I live in north London and move in quite arty/lefty circles, it's what you get

    I have some Tory friends but actual Leavers? - there is one. Possibly two - tho the second is a Corbynite Leaver. That's it, I think. I have a couple more who really agonised over the decision but, I think, went Remain in the end because they own London property

    My family is much more Leavery - but they don't live in London

    How do you survive all that rampant wokery? ;-)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,867
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Isn't there a well-established effect whereby the more intelligent you are the less open to persuasion by alternative points of view, and the more likely you are to 'mould' the facts to support your beliefs?

    PS Do you have any friends who are not 'lefty Remainers'?
    He also has a whole cadre of young female Corbynista admirers IIRC. All these lefty friends conform to every Daily Mail stereotype and can be relied upon to say the kind of idiotic thing that I have never heard anybody say in real life. These people are 100% not a figment of his over-active imagination.
    I dunno. My Albanian cabbie told me that he heard the same story from a passenger just the other day.
    I am aware that no one on this site will ever believe me, but the Albanian cabbie story was 100% true.

    Albanian, ex pro footballer, moved to Italy then to the UK

    Not a single lie in that there anecdote. But hey ho!
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,131
    Leon said:

    Things can only get bitter:
    image

    So race relations began to seriously decline under Obama??
    Well of course. The psychic pain of so many at having a black president foisted upon them. It was like being forced to take the Knee all day and every day. Cue backlash. This was a key driver of Trump capturing the White House. Rank racism. Don't kid yourself it was all about mothballed steel plants in the Rust Belt. That's just the PC version.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,251
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Kakistocracy Watch. Parliament increasingly resembling that of a 3rd world country today with an MP being barred from the chamber for accurately calling out the PM as a liar.

    It's unparliamentary language, isn't it?
    Sure, but isn't the unparliamentary behaviour of lying to Parliament something the Speaker should act on too?
    That is the problem. If Boris wants to tell fibs, there is not much that can be done about it. Our conventions rely on Honourable and Right Honourable Members behaving honourably.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,867

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The survey of 250 manufacturing businesses reported output increasing in 16 out of 17 sub-sectors, led by the motor vehicles & transport equipment and food, drink & tobacco sub-sectors.

    Manufacturers expect output to grow at an even quicker pace in the next three months – the strongest growth expectations on record.

    Furthermore, total new orders grew at their quickest pace since 1974. This reflected domestic orders expanding at their fastest rate on record (since 1975), and the first rise in export orders since January 2019.

    Meanwhile, numbers employed in the sector grew at their fastest pace since 1973, and are expected to increase at a slightly faster rate in the next three months.


    https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/factory-output-employment-and-orders-rising-at-fastest-rate-for-almost-50-years/

    The world is booming right now, as we start to put Covid behind us.
    It can't be true though, I kept being told after Brexit that the UK would wave goodbye to all of its industries and that I personally would be out of a job because the whole City would move to Frankfurt, the world's dullest place.

    These manufacturing companies must be mistaken, Robert. All of those experts couldn't possibly be wrong and the Treasury's gravity model is able to predict the future 100% accurately.
    Had a debate with a lefty Remainer friend a few days ago. He has a physics degree from a Russell Group university

    He claimed that GDP had fallen by 30% because of Brexit, and it took a while for him to accept that he was wrong

    If a smart guy can hold opinions like this, how many people believe totally insane things? And vote "accordingly"?
    Isn't there a well-established effect whereby the more intelligent you are the less open to persuasion by alternative points of view, and the more likely you are to 'mould' the facts to support your beliefs?

    PS Do you have any friends who are not 'lefty Remainers'?
    I certainly have way more lefty Remainer friends than Brexiteers - I live in north London and move in quite arty/lefty circles, it's what you get

    I have some Tory friends but actual Leavers? - there is one. Possibly two - tho the second is a Corbynite Leaver. That's it, I think. I have a couple more who really agonised over the decision but, I think, went Remain in the end because they own London property

    My family is much more Leavery - but they don't live in London

    How do you survive all that rampant wokery? ;-)
    I generally just let them wank on, as is their wont. Like any right-leaning Leaver in London I have learned to button my lip
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331

    felix said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 41% (+1)
    LAB: 34% (-1)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 5% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (=)

    Via @SavantaComRes, 16-18 Jul.
    Changes from 9-11 Jul.


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1418202548746559488?s=20

    Look like "inevitable Tory slide" delayed yet again...

    Oops a daisy. We keep on 'being here before' don't we. Almost as if the knowitalls haven't got a clue..
    Not exactly. This is a near repeat of what appeared to be a wild outlier (5% lead when everyone else was showing 10-13). It provides modest supporting evidence for the suggestion (cf. Survation) that the Tory lead, although still there, is declining. It'll be interesting to see the next YouGov.
    No.it shows voters are on holiday and couldn't give a shit about politics right now...
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