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On the betting markets punters make it a 67% chance that Hancock will still be in his job on July 1

SystemSystem Posts: 11,690
edited June 2021 in General
imageOn the betting markets punters make it a 67% chance that Hancock will still be in his job on July 1 – politicalbetting.com

The above chart if from the Smarkets betting exchange and as can be seen there is not a lot of liquidity at the moment though you can see this one gathering momentum with a lot of switching from one to the other.

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    kinabalu said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage

    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    Cheers. And here's the Jones doc on the seat -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEcNHMLyEYk
    Jones is no John Harris.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,987
    edited June 2021
    Second.
    One of a recent string of unfortunate failures.
    I blame outside agitators.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,330
    He has to resign by Monday otherwise Boris needs to sack him

    And he may find tomorrow's papers make his resignation inevitable, though of course I am speculating
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    I wonder why wouldn't Labour give an interview with Joe? The journalist is definitely left leaning, and i have seen him interview a whole range of people across the political spectrum and is always polite and reasonable.
    I think @DavidL has hit the nail on the head with "inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate."
    Yes perhaps. Sounds like they asked for an interview for quiite while leading up to it. Joe doesn't exactly get big viewership, but i would say that guy is a very low risk interview. He is broadly sympathetic and even those he interviews who he isn't, he seems to give them a fair shake e.g. i have seen him talk with douglas murray at length on a number of occasions and it comes across as a perfectly reasonable conversation between two adults who have some different views....quite shocking in the modern media world of so what you mean is...no i never said that....but what you mean is...
    Online media is starting to eat the MSM, as more and more people realise that two or three people shoutingly emphasising their small differences for five minutes at a time isn’t really a useful exercise. Way more heat than light, as opposed to online journalists and podcasters prepared to give someone time to make their argument, even when the host disagrees with them.
    That bloke from Joe and Freddie Sayers far better than most of the usual knobheads. John Harris is probably the one that is the best at actually going to places and getting normal folk to talk, again we know he is left wing, but it never comes across as man comes with political agenda to trap folk into a gotcha moment, it is more i actually want to know, i might not agree, but i want to hear other people's views.

    We might have all laughed at Michael Crick running around streets shouting at people, but realistically we learned diddly squat.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    FPT, the Labour candidate in B & S seems pretty weak. Refusing to give an interview to a jounalist is pretty feeble.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101
    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the Labour candidate in B & S seems pretty weak. Refusing to give an interview to a jounalist is pretty feeble.

    Labour are running another Tamsin Dunwoody campaign.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2021
    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the Labour candidate in B & S seems pretty weak. Refusing to give an interview to a jounalist is pretty feeble.

    Given who he is, suggests Labour HQ aren't fully on the ball either. That guy is one of the most reasonable (and he is left leaning) journalists out there. He is the absolute opposite of a gotcha journalist.
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the Labour candidate in B & S seems pretty weak. Refusing to give an interview to a jounalist is pretty feeble.

    Agreed,

    She is probably a wonderful person, I have no axe to grind here. but in the few clips I've seen of her, she is not a 'robust' candidate, dos not seem to do 'political confutation' well, and did not come across well in the hustings. Perhaps standing in a safe seat at a GE and we would not notice, and possibly has a lot of offer HoC, I don't know. But, I get the feeling she was adopted by Lab, because of who her sister was, and I have empathy for that chose and the people making it, but It does not look like a good chose at the moment.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    It would be nice to brand Russia Today's Galloway as the man who gave the seat to the Tories
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,987
    edited June 2021
    Listening to Any Questions.
    Very dispiriting. SNP loudmouth picking fights with Jenrick and Alistair Stewart. Stewart losing his cool.
    Hearing very little from Emily Thornberry who is interesting and reflective, but getting drowned out in a tsunami of testosterone.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101
    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2021
    Just watching the England squad training footage...any thought that a somebody having a conversation for 15 mins with another player needs to be isolated away for 10 days is absolute nonsense. The squad constantly hanging out together, hugging, grabbing one another.

    If one player has got it, if they are going to pass it on, they will have done already.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,909

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the Labour candidate in B & S seems pretty weak. Refusing to give an interview to a jounalist is pretty feeble.

    Given who he is, suggests Labour HQ aren't fully on the ball either. That guy is one of the most reasonable (and he is left leaning) journalists out there. He is the absolute opposite of a gotcha journalist.
    She should be really be wanting to speak to anyone who will listen, given she’s standing for election next week. The party should have given her a media person or two, and be arranging interviews.

    I can see why she’d want to avoid anyone who would shout at her, or misrepresent what she said, but this guy doesn’t seem to fit into those categories.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    I don't know if it's been noticed/remarked upon yet, but one of the Government's backbenchers has broken ranks and called for Hancock to quit. One wonders how many others may now be emboldened to do likewise?
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    Yes, that’s probably the most significant consequence of this - any chance the Govt would continue restrictions past-19/7 have just gone out of the window.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933

    It would be nice to brand Russia Today's Galloway as the man who gave the seat to the Tories

    Are Smarkets making a book on when a Remain politician loses through being unpopular/their own fault?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,299
    MrEd said:

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    Yes, that’s probably the most significant consequence of this - any chance the Govt would continue restrictions past-19/7 have just gone out of the window.
    Well done Handycock, in that case!
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,602

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    That is an excellent piece of work. Thanks for the link.

    We can see that Labour are being impeded by an inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate. We can see the tensions in the Muslim community. And we can see George, smart enough to make sure his fingerprints were nowhere near it.
    I didn’t realise the bloke having a go at her was from Birmingham. What a pillock.
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's the same bloke from Birmingham who was ringleader of the pile-on against LGBT education in a number of Birmingham schools in 2019. It's a great pity that the Imams in Batley haven't told him to keep away (although it is, of course, possible that they have and he's ignored them). He's a shit-stirrer of the worst kind.
    Was he involved in the Batley Grammar School education spat? Genuine question - I don't know.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,909

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    Assuming there’s nothing horryfying for Hancock in the Sundays, he probably stays until 19th July, then gets reshuffled out to spend time trying to save his marriage. Restrictions will definitely be lifted on that date though!
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    MrEd said:

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    Yes, that’s probably the most significant consequence of this - any chance the Govt would continue restrictions past-19/7 have just gone out of the window.
    Although, we don’t really know what end of all restrictions actually looks like. My guess it looks very different to pre-COVID.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101
    edited June 2021

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    I don't know if it's been noticed/remarked upon yet, but one of the Government's backbenchers has broken ranks and called for Hancock to quit. One wonders how many others may now be emboldened to do likewise?
    There's often a 'critical mass' with resignations.

    If a certain level is reached nobody becomes willing to publicly defend the person in difficulty.

    If a higher level is reached people begin to think that a resignation is likely and so hurry to jump on the bandwagon.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    That is an excellent piece of work. Thanks for the link.

    We can see that Labour are being impeded by an inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate. We can see the tensions in the Muslim community. And we can see George, smart enough to make sure his fingerprints were nowhere near it.
    I didn’t realise the bloke having a go at her was from Birmingham. What a pillock.
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's the same bloke from Birmingham who was ringleader of the pile-on against LGBT education in a number of Birmingham schools in 2019. It's a great pity that the Imams in Batley haven't told him to keep away (although it is, of course, possible that they have and he's ignored them). He's a shit-stirrer of the worst kind.
    Was he involved in the Batley Grammar School education spat? Genuine question - I don't know.
    This is him;

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ShakeelAfsar8
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,253

    kinabalu said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage

    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    Cheers. And here's the Jones doc on the seat -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEcNHMLyEYk
    Jones is no John Harris.
    And John Harris is no Owen Jones! :smile:
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    I don't know if it's been noticed/remarked upon yet, but one of the Government's backbenchers has broken ranks and called for Hancock to quit. One wonders how many others may now be emboldened to do likewise?
    The Whatsapp chatter will be fascinating. I doubt he has many cheerleaders on the backbenches....
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    AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    The confrontation in B&S is pretty unpleasant. Homophobes shouting at anyone who deviates from their orthodoxy in the street. People playing for sectarian identity politics rather than policy. Friday prayers being the main political event with local imams being kingmakers.

    I feel like this could be increasingly common in more constituencies unless we get a lot smarter about immigration and integration policy, rather than taking a Rotherham "let's not upset community relations" approach.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Logical answer for me is he offers to step down on July 19th. Don’t think anyone could have too many complaints with that.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,997
    FPT
    BigRich said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    I wonder why wouldn't Labour give an interview with Joe? The journalist is definitely left leaning, and i have seen him interview a whole range of people across the political spectrum and is always polite and reasonable.
    I think @DavidL has hit the nail on the head with "inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate."
    Agreed,

    She is probably a wonderful person, I have no axe to grind here. but in the few clips I've seen of her, she is not a 'robust' candidate, dos not seem to do 'political confutation' well, and did not come across well in the hustings. Perhaps standing in a safe seat at a GE and we would not notice, and possibly has a lot of offer HoC, I don't know. But, I get the feeling she was adopted by Lab, because of who her sister was, and I have empathy for that chose and the people making it, but It does not look like a good chose at the moment.

    I think the logic was she was absolutely everything the Labour's Hartlepool candidate wasn't.

    And were it not for GG being such a ..... I thought she had a decent chance of getting elected.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,779

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    I don't know if it's been noticed/remarked upon yet, but one of the Government's backbenchers has broken ranks and called for Hancock to quit. One wonders how many others may now be emboldened to do likewise?
    There's often a 'critical mass' with resignations.

    If a certain level is reached nobody becomes willing to publicly defend the person in difficulty.

    If a higher level is reached people begin to think that a resignation is likely and so hurry to jump on the bandwagon.
    What did the backbench count vs Cummings get to? 60 odd? And still survived.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    I don't know if it's been noticed/remarked upon yet, but one of the Government's backbenchers has broken ranks and called for Hancock to quit. One wonders how many others may now be emboldened to do likewise?
    There's often a 'critical mass' with resignations.

    If a certain level is reached nobody becomes willing to publicly defend the person in difficulty.

    If a higher level is reached people begin to think that a resignation is likely and so hurry to jump on the bandwagon.
    What did the backbench count vs Cummings get to? 60 odd? And still survived.
    I don't think it was that high (but may be wrong).

    Given what subsequently happened Boris might regret not sacking Dom.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,317
    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    This is my view. We've had several instances now where, under previous standards, a minister's position was untenable, and yet the minister remained. This will be no exception.

    I can see why people are confused. On many matters of policy this government are easy to push around, as Rashford has shown, and as Tory MPs who have loyally defended the government line have found to their embarrassment. But for the Johnson Ministry, the ideology pretty much doesn't matter, so being pushed around on details of policy doesn't bother them.

    What matters is holding office, and not being held responsible for anything. Hancock's resignation would strike at the very core of the way in which the Johnson Ministry operates.
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    AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,931
    I've told my MP the little creep needs going.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,909
    eek said:

    FPT

    BigRich said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    I wonder why wouldn't Labour give an interview with Joe? The journalist is definitely left leaning, and i have seen him interview a whole range of people across the political spectrum and is always polite and reasonable.
    I think @DavidL has hit the nail on the head with "inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate."
    Agreed,

    She is probably a wonderful person, I have no axe to grind here. but in the few clips I've seen of her, she is not a 'robust' candidate, dos not seem to do 'political confutation' well, and did not come across well in the hustings. Perhaps standing in a safe seat at a GE and we would not notice, and possibly has a lot of offer HoC, I don't know. But, I get the feeling she was adopted by Lab, because of who her sister was, and I have empathy for that chose and the people making it, but It does not look like a good chose at the moment.

    I think the logic was she was absolutely everything the Labour's Hartlepool candidate wasn't.

    And were it not for GG being such a ..... I thought she had a decent chance of getting elected.
    I think you’re right. Sadly, GG and his merry band of unofficial helpers have introduced divisive and sectarian politics into this campaign, something that everyone could do without.

    Hopefully he comes nowhere, but he’s probably already done enough to hand the seat to the Tories.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,205

    It would be nice to brand Russia Today's Galloway as the man who gave the seat to the Tories

    As opposed to labour doing so by picking a candidate so clearly not up to the task,
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,317

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    I don't know if it's been noticed/remarked upon yet, but one of the Government's backbenchers has broken ranks and called for Hancock to quit. One wonders how many others may now be emboldened to do likewise?
    There's often a 'critical mass' with resignations.

    If a certain level is reached nobody becomes willing to publicly defend the person in difficulty.

    If a higher level is reached people begin to think that a resignation is likely and so hurry to jump on the bandwagon.
    We saw this with Cummings, though. Every backbench Tory MP came out against him, so that they could personally mollify their constituents, but it made no difference. I would not be surprised to see the same again. Dozens of backbench Tory MPs calling for Hancock to resign, so that their local constituents can feel okay about still voting for them (because they're not as bad as the rest of them), after being given the nod and the wink from the whips that it's fine, because the PM is so shameless that he'll just ignore it.

    The informal and customary ways in which we used to be able to hold our politicians to account have now been completely broken by Boris Johnson's shamelessness.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited June 2021
    eek said:

    FPT

    BigRich said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    I wonder why wouldn't Labour give an interview with Joe? The journalist is definitely left leaning, and i have seen him interview a whole range of people across the political spectrum and is always polite and reasonable.
    I think @DavidL has hit the nail on the head with "inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate."
    Agreed,

    She is probably a wonderful person, I have no axe to grind here. but in the few clips I've seen of her, she is not a 'robust' candidate, dos not seem to do 'political confutation' well, and did not come across well in the hustings. Perhaps standing in a safe seat at a GE and we would not notice, and possibly has a lot of offer HoC, I don't know. But, I get the feeling she was adopted by Lab, because of who her sister was, and I have empathy for that chose and the people making it, but It does not look like a good chose at the moment.

    I think the logic was she was absolutely everything the Labour's Hartlepool candidate wasn't.

    And were it not for GG being such a ..... I thought she had a decent chance of getting elected.
    @david_herdson is nearby, no?

    It would be interesting to get his take on what is happening on B&S

    From that clip, I fear for Kim. She looked out of her depth.

    GG looked every bit the cunning wolf, waiting to devour her alive.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited June 2021
    ping said:

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    That is an excellent piece of work. Thanks for the link.

    We can see that Labour are being impeded by an inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate. We can see the tensions in the Muslim community. And we can see George, smart enough to make sure his fingerprints were nowhere near it.
    I didn’t realise the bloke having a go at her was from Birmingham. What a pillock.
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's the same bloke from Birmingham who was ringleader of the pile-on against LGBT education in a number of Birmingham schools in 2019. It's a great pity that the Imams in Batley haven't told him to keep away (although it is, of course, possible that they have and he's ignored them). He's a shit-stirrer of the worst kind.
    Was he involved in the Batley Grammar School education spat? Genuine question - I don't know.
    This is him;

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ShakeelAfsar8
    His Twitter doesn’t mention the batley cartoons when it happened, around the end of May.

    He seems most exercised about Kashmir, Palestine, RSE in schools. He hates Labour, suggests he’s starting his own political party.

    With the exception of the Sunni Muslim issues, he’s an old school socially conservative Tory.

    “Entrepreneur😎|Private Landlord| Real Estate 🏡🏠🏢 | | Property Developer”
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2021
    With Roy injured, they are opening with Malan in the cricket. I would have loved to see Banton get a call-up. In T20 around the world for past 2 years, he just looks the business (although until yesterday has been struggling, but smashed 77 in 30 odd balls).
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,931
    The confrontation Ledbetter got yesterday was a disgrace, and if Starmer had anything about him he'd be out supporting Leadbetter in BS perhaps even knocking a few doors for her.
    He's been quiet about it if he has supported her
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    tlg86 said:

    MrEd said:

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    Yes, that’s probably the most significant consequence of this - any chance the Govt would continue restrictions past-19/7 have just gone out of the window.
    Although, we don’t really know what end of all restrictions actually looks like. My guess it looks very different to pre-COVID.
    My original guess earlier in the year was that the end state would involve test and trace continuing for the foreseeable, together with masks in medical settings and on public transport, and that everything else would go. The unshuttering of nightclubs certainly necessitates the trashing of broad-based indoor mask mandates, social distancing, and the kind of Cromwellian prohibitions on dancing that currently pertain at weddings.

    The noises emanating from Government (for what they're worth, which isn't much I grant you) suggest that this may be broadly correct, although mask compulsion on public transport might also be scrapped. OTOH I think that my employer is going to keep plodding along with its Covid mitigations for a good while longer, and that many others will be reluctant to let go of the security blanket.

    I don't know how long mass testing is going to continue for, but if we're going to get back to normal then it's going to need to be scaled back at some point in the not-too-distant future, and/or isolation rules for the close contacts of cases are going to need to be relaxed. In particular, the panic flapping over cases identified in schools will have to be toned down, or we'll be straight back into classes and whole year groups doing the remote learning hokey-cokey in September.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,317
    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    The adultery is like catnip for the papers, of course, but it's only the form in which Hancock's unfitness for public office has been demonstrated. It wasn't for adultery that the Scottish medical officer had to resign - it was for breaking the rules she asked others to follow.

    But, since it didn't involve personally crossing the PM, Hancock is safe.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,253
    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    I've forgotten - what was your Cummings 'break the rules' position?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    Pulpstar said:

    The confrontation Ledbetter got yesterday was a disgrace, and if Starmer had anything about him he'd be out supporting Leadbetter in BS perhaps even knocking a few doors for her.
    He's been quiet about it if he has supported her

    He tweeted that Galloway's politics was poisonous in response to it I think
  • Options
    AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    If someone betrays the person they committed their lives to, how can we trust them to be true to their commitments to voters they don't even know?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,997
    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    Boris hasn't just normalised adultery he also via Jennifer Arcuri opened up a world where "friends" can use their personal services to get work / grants from the organisation / department Boris / Matt Hancock were running
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    I've forgotten - what was your Cummings 'break the rules' position?
    I couldn't get worked up about that, I was on his side - I thought people should be able to isolate in second homes if they had one, or in a house on their parents land in his case
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    edited June 2021
    eek said:

    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    Boris hasn't just normalised adultery he also via Jennifer Arcuri opened up a world where "friends" can use their personal services to get work / grants from the organisation / department Boris / Matt Hancock were running
    Oh is that a new thing?! I have just had a really profound case of deja vu!!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,909
    Pulpstar said:

    The confrontation Ledbetter got yesterday was a disgrace, and if Starmer had anything about him he'd be out supporting Leadbetter in BS perhaps even knocking a few doors for her.
    He's been quiet about it if he has supported her

    Well quite. Half the shadow cabinet should be there knocking doors with her today, but they appear to be more worried about upsetting what now appear to be an outside group of Islamic activists working with the GG campaign.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    Too busy rearranging his HQ team? or not wanting to be associated with another loss?

    Ether way he should be there, it comes across as if he has left her alone to fight it out.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,253

    eek said:

    FPT

    BigRich said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    I wonder why wouldn't Labour give an interview with Joe? The journalist is definitely left leaning, and i have seen him interview a whole range of people across the political spectrum and is always polite and reasonable.
    I think @DavidL has hit the nail on the head with "inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate."
    Agreed,

    She is probably a wonderful person, I have no axe to grind here. but in the few clips I've seen of her, she is not a 'robust' candidate, dos not seem to do 'political confutation' well, and did not come across well in the hustings. Perhaps standing in a safe seat at a GE and we would not notice, and possibly has a lot of offer HoC, I don't know. But, I get the feeling she was adopted by Lab, because of who her sister was, and I have empathy for that chose and the people making it, but It does not look like a good chose at the moment.

    I think the logic was she was absolutely everything the Labour's Hartlepool candidate wasn't.

    And were it not for GG being such a ..... I thought she had a decent chance of getting elected.
    @david_herdson is nearby, no?

    It would be interesting to get his take on what is happening on B&S

    From that clip, I fear for Kim. She looked out of her depth.

    GG looked every bit the cunning wolf, waiting to devour her alive.
    For all his nonsense Galloway is not an easy person to debate. He's articulate and self-assured and impossible to embarrass.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,205
    Pulpstar said:

    The confrontation Ledbetter got yesterday was a disgrace, and if Starmer had anything about him he'd be out supporting Leadbetter in BS perhaps even knocking a few doors for her.
    He's been quiet about it if he has supported her

    Why was it though?

    She was challenged in the street by someone. Something that will happen to politicians across the divide in all elections. An experienced, or savvy, campaigner would be able to shut it down quite Easily.

    She showed her jnexperience and lack of political nous.
  • Options
    AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The confrontation Ledbetter got yesterday was a disgrace, and if Starmer had anything about him he'd be out supporting Leadbetter in BS perhaps even knocking a few doors for her.
    He's been quiet about it if he has supported her

    Well quite. Half the shadow cabinet should be there knocking doors with her today, but they appear to be more worried about upsetting what now appear to be an outside group of Islamic activists working with the GG campaign.
    The problem for them is not the outside group. It is that most B&S Muslims agree with them and they make up 25% of the constituency. Labour can't win in this constituency without not offending the religious bigots. And yet they want to keep on letting in more of them. Just look at how they want to scrap the income requirement for marriage visas.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,434
    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    BigRich said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    I wonder why wouldn't Labour give an interview with Joe? The journalist is definitely left leaning, and i have seen him interview a whole range of people across the political spectrum and is always polite and reasonable.
    I think @DavidL has hit the nail on the head with "inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate."
    Agreed,

    She is probably a wonderful person, I have no axe to grind here. but in the few clips I've seen of her, she is not a 'robust' candidate, dos not seem to do 'political confutation' well, and did not come across well in the hustings. Perhaps standing in a safe seat at a GE and we would not notice, and possibly has a lot of offer HoC, I don't know. But, I get the feeling she was adopted by Lab, because of who her sister was, and I have empathy for that chose and the people making it, but It does not look like a good chose at the moment.

    I think the logic was she was absolutely everything the Labour's Hartlepool candidate wasn't.

    And were it not for GG being such a ..... I thought she had a decent chance of getting elected.
    @david_herdson is nearby, no?

    It would be interesting to get his take on what is happening on B&S

    From that clip, I fear for Kim. She looked out of her depth.

    GG looked every bit the cunning wolf, waiting to devour her alive.
    For all his nonsense Galloway is not an easy person to debate. He's articulate and self-assured and impossible to embarrass.
    George Galloway outclassing the American Senate from a few years ago.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5u1skEoqLs
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101

    MaxPB said:

    He's not going to get sacked and he has refused to resign. Yes seems like free money to me.

    Depends what else might be revealed.

    Whatever the case Hancock's credibility is crippled.

    As is any chance of restrictions not going on 19/07.
    I don't know if it's been noticed/remarked upon yet, but one of the Government's backbenchers has broken ranks and called for Hancock to quit. One wonders how many others may now be emboldened to do likewise?
    There's often a 'critical mass' with resignations.

    If a certain level is reached nobody becomes willing to publicly defend the person in difficulty.

    If a higher level is reached people begin to think that a resignation is likely and so hurry to jump on the bandwagon.
    We saw this with Cummings, though. Every backbench Tory MP came out against him, so that they could personally mollify their constituents, but it made no difference. I would not be surprised to see the same again. Dozens of backbench Tory MPs calling for Hancock to resign, so that their local constituents can feel okay about still voting for them (because they're not as bad as the rest of them), after being given the nod and the wink from the whips that it's fine, because the PM is so shameless that he'll just ignore it.

    The informal and customary ways in which we used to be able to hold our politicians to account have now been completely broken by Boris Johnson's shamelessness.
    Every backbench Tory MP came out against him

    This is going exponential isn't it.

    noneoftheabove thinks it was sixty odd and you go for all of them.

    How many would that be ? 250+ ? 300+ ?
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    David, I saw you post that you were unwell, but then missed several threads (Midsommar celebrations etc). I assume that all went well in the end? Glad to see you posting.

    Still in hospital Stuart , hence the posts in the middle of the night

    Sorry to hear that, but I hope you’re getting the help you need.
    Not a big fan of overnight hospital stays, bring back unpleasant memories. And in Sweden you have to pay for overheads and food.
    Really? I hope its least charged later.
    Yes, really.

    There is no national health system, it is run by the regions, but in Stockholm for example you must pay 100 SEK (about £8.50) per night to stay in a hospital, to cover food, cleaning, laundry, heating etc.

    No, you do not pay up front. Because everyone has a personal number it is piss easy to identify everyone and send them an invoice.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,997
    edited June 2021
    isam said:

    eek said:

    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    Boris hasn't just normalised adultery he also via Jennifer Arcuri opened up a world where "friends" can use their personal services to get work / grants from the organisation / department Boris / Matt Hancock were running
    Oh is that a new thing?! I have just had a really profound case of deja vu!!
    Well the Ms Arcuri allegations relate to when Boris was London Mayor - but it does mean (given that Boris is trying not to sack people for things he has himself done) that Boris cannot sack Matt Hancock for providing a "lover" with money via a job within his department / under his control while bypassing the standard employment procedures.

    That in most private firms would be a sackable offence.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,453
    I know the real world shouldn't be seen through the prism of by-elections - but B&S currently feels like one of those weird football matches at the end of a group stage in which both teams would rather come second.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,434
    ping said:

    ping said:

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    That is an excellent piece of work. Thanks for the link.

    We can see that Labour are being impeded by an inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate. We can see the tensions in the Muslim community. And we can see George, smart enough to make sure his fingerprints were nowhere near it.
    I didn’t realise the bloke having a go at her was from Birmingham. What a pillock.
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's the same bloke from Birmingham who was ringleader of the pile-on against LGBT education in a number of Birmingham schools in 2019. It's a great pity that the Imams in Batley haven't told him to keep away (although it is, of course, possible that they have and he's ignored them). He's a shit-stirrer of the worst kind.
    Was he involved in the Batley Grammar School education spat? Genuine question - I don't know.
    This is him;

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ShakeelAfsar8
    His Twitter doesn’t mention the batley cartoons when it happened, around the end of May.

    He seems most exercised about Kashmir, Palestine, RSE in schools. He hates Labour, suggests he’s starting his own political party.

    With the exception of the Sunni Muslim issues, he’s an old school socially conservative Tory.

    “Entrepreneur😎|Private Landlord| Real Estate 🏡🏠🏢 | | Property Developer”
    The Labour Party does seem clueless in Batley and Spen. Not identifying Afsar; misidentifying him with Galloway; not recognising "good" interviewers. No sign of heavyweight support. Not giving the candidate a decent minder.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,253

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    BigRich said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    I wonder why wouldn't Labour give an interview with Joe? The journalist is definitely left leaning, and i have seen him interview a whole range of people across the political spectrum and is always polite and reasonable.
    I think @DavidL has hit the nail on the head with "inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate."
    Agreed,

    She is probably a wonderful person, I have no axe to grind here. but in the few clips I've seen of her, she is not a 'robust' candidate, dos not seem to do 'political confutation' well, and did not come across well in the hustings. Perhaps standing in a safe seat at a GE and we would not notice, and possibly has a lot of offer HoC, I don't know. But, I get the feeling she was adopted by Lab, because of who her sister was, and I have empathy for that chose and the people making it, but It does not look like a good chose at the moment.

    I think the logic was she was absolutely everything the Labour's Hartlepool candidate wasn't.

    And were it not for GG being such a ..... I thought she had a decent chance of getting elected.
    @david_herdson is nearby, no?

    It would be interesting to get his take on what is happening on B&S

    From that clip, I fear for Kim. She looked out of her depth.

    GG looked every bit the cunning wolf, waiting to devour her alive.
    For all his nonsense Galloway is not an easy person to debate. He's articulate and self-assured and impossible to embarrass.
    George Galloway outclassing the American Senate from a few years ago.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5u1skEoqLs
    Finest hour. In common with many I liked him back then. Went off him when I realized he was above all else a brand. In politics for personal gratification and little else.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,909
    Aslan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The confrontation Ledbetter got yesterday was a disgrace, and if Starmer had anything about him he'd be out supporting Leadbetter in BS perhaps even knocking a few doors for her.
    He's been quiet about it if he has supported her

    Well quite. Half the shadow cabinet should be there knocking doors with her today, but they appear to be more worried about upsetting what now appear to be an outside group of Islamic activists working with the GG campaign.
    The problem for them is not the outside group. It is that most B&S Muslims agree with them and they make up 25% of the constituency. Labour can't win in this constituency without not offending the religious bigots. And yet they want to keep on letting in more of them. Just look at how they want to scrap the income requirement for marriage visas.
    The metropolitan woke attitude, was always destined to come up against more conservative religious groups at some point. Labour have tried riding both horses for too long, and GG is now emphasising the inconsistency.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,205

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    BigRich said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    I wonder why wouldn't Labour give an interview with Joe? The journalist is definitely left leaning, and i have seen him interview a whole range of people across the political spectrum and is always polite and reasonable.
    I think @DavidL has hit the nail on the head with "inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate."
    Agreed,

    She is probably a wonderful person, I have no axe to grind here. but in the few clips I've seen of her, she is not a 'robust' candidate, dos not seem to do 'political confutation' well, and did not come across well in the hustings. Perhaps standing in a safe seat at a GE and we would not notice, and possibly has a lot of offer HoC, I don't know. But, I get the feeling she was adopted by Lab, because of who her sister was, and I have empathy for that chose and the people making it, but It does not look like a good chose at the moment.

    I think the logic was she was absolutely everything the Labour's Hartlepool candidate wasn't.

    And were it not for GG being such a ..... I thought she had a decent chance of getting elected.
    @david_herdson is nearby, no?

    It would be interesting to get his take on what is happening on B&S

    From that clip, I fear for Kim. She looked out of her depth.

    GG looked every bit the cunning wolf, waiting to devour her alive.
    For all his nonsense Galloway is not an easy person to debate. He's articulate and self-assured and impossible to embarrass.
    Oh, yeah. GG is a first-class act.

    He is witty and charming. He is very articulate and intelligent. And he has the all the by-election experience in the world.

    Tis a pity he's a shit.
    Absolutely agree with this,
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,997

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    BigRich said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    I wonder why wouldn't Labour give an interview with Joe? The journalist is definitely left leaning, and i have seen him interview a whole range of people across the political spectrum and is always polite and reasonable.
    I think @DavidL has hit the nail on the head with "inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate."
    Agreed,

    She is probably a wonderful person, I have no axe to grind here. but in the few clips I've seen of her, she is not a 'robust' candidate, dos not seem to do 'political confutation' well, and did not come across well in the hustings. Perhaps standing in a safe seat at a GE and we would not notice, and possibly has a lot of offer HoC, I don't know. But, I get the feeling she was adopted by Lab, because of who her sister was, and I have empathy for that chose and the people making it, but It does not look like a good chose at the moment.

    I think the logic was she was absolutely everything the Labour's Hartlepool candidate wasn't.

    And were it not for GG being such a ..... I thought she had a decent chance of getting elected.
    @david_herdson is nearby, no?

    It would be interesting to get his take on what is happening on B&S

    From that clip, I fear for Kim. She looked out of her depth.

    GG looked every bit the cunning wolf, waiting to devour her alive.
    For all his nonsense Galloway is not an easy person to debate. He's articulate and self-assured and impossible to embarrass.
    Oh, yeah. GG is a first-class act.

    He is witty and charming. He is very articulate and intelligent. And he has the all the by-election experience in the world.

    Tis a pity he's a shit.
    a shit is way too polite for GG....
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,712
    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    I was one who said he should stay in the yougov snap poll. I am not one to call for sackings without a proper investigation, particularly into how she got her posts and who else he did favours for.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,714
    "Covid quarantine hotels: Women say they were sexually harassed by guards"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57609164
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,266
    Esther McVey has now basically said he should go.

  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731

    ping said:

    ping said:

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    That is an excellent piece of work. Thanks for the link.

    We can see that Labour are being impeded by an inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate. We can see the tensions in the Muslim community. And we can see George, smart enough to make sure his fingerprints were nowhere near it.
    I didn’t realise the bloke having a go at her was from Birmingham. What a pillock.
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's the same bloke from Birmingham who was ringleader of the pile-on against LGBT education in a number of Birmingham schools in 2019. It's a great pity that the Imams in Batley haven't told him to keep away (although it is, of course, possible that they have and he's ignored them). He's a shit-stirrer of the worst kind.
    Was he involved in the Batley Grammar School education spat? Genuine question - I don't know.
    This is him;

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ShakeelAfsar8
    His Twitter doesn’t mention the batley cartoons when it happened, around the end of May.

    He seems most exercised about Kashmir, Palestine, RSE in schools. He hates Labour, suggests he’s starting his own political party.

    With the exception of the Sunni Muslim issues, he’s an old school socially conservative Tory.

    “Entrepreneur😎|Private Landlord| Real Estate 🏡🏠🏢 | | Property Developer”
    The Labour Party does seem clueless in Batley and Spen. Not identifying Afsar; misidentifying him with Galloway; not recognising "good" interviewers. No sign of heavyweight support. Not giving the candidate a decent minder.
    I got the date wrong on the batley cartoon stuff.

    He was encouraging a pile on to the teacher;

    https://twitter.com/ShakeelAfsar8/status/1375114642339545097
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,253
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    I've forgotten - what was your Cummings 'break the rules' position?
    I couldn't get worked up about that, I was on his side - I thought people should be able to isolate in second homes if they had one, or in a house on their parents land in his case
    I see. Although not really, since the 'hypocrisy' point is almost identical. But of course there IS a big difference between the 2 cases and it's the one that I intuit clinches things for you. Cummings is a Leaver and the Cock's Remain. Spooky, aren't I?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    edited June 2021
    ...
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    I was one who said he should stay in the yougov snap poll. I am not one to call for sackings without a proper investigation, particularly into how she got her posts and who else he did favours for.
    Another PBer on opinion pollsters speed dial! What a representative sample

    I don’t think there’s a need to over complicate this one - he told us not to kiss & hug our families at Christmas, he banned people from visiting dying loved ones, millions of sacrifices have been made and he has been caught at it with another mans wife, or more importantly risking disease with a contact from another household by breaking his own rules.

    O-U-T spells out
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    Away from the Hancock dead cat and back to the news:

    https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jun/25/2002749916/-1/-1/1/DEPUTY-SECRETARY-OF-DEFENSE-MEMORANDUM-ON-UNIDENTIFIED-AERIAL-PHENOMENA-ASSESSMENTS.PDF

    Following yesterday’s UAP report to Congress, the senior leadership of the US military has now received a new set of instructions. It underlines that the UAP issue is a critical one for operational security and that this should not just be the the responsibility of the Navy to engage with but all branches of the military (the Air Force and CIA have thus far refused to cooperate with the work of the UAP Taskforce).

    Basically Harry Reid’s $22m temporary ufo skunkworks has got the scale and permanence of the US Executive behind it. The memo orders the synchronisation of UAP data collection, reporting and analysis across all branches.

    It will be under the purview of the Chair of the Joint Chiefs (among others), with the goal of ensuring that any UAP activity is escalated within two weeks of occurrence.

    Obama has said he asked to see the ufo files when he came to office and was shown nothing. Despite the Nimitz incident taking place 4 years before his inauguration. The UAP Taskforce report refers to “regular anecdotes” that were not formally recorded. Sounds to me like the White House now wants to firmly take the reigns on this and get as much data as it can. The report bemoaned that not only had stigma hampered data collection, but that the detecting equipment was not designed with capturing UFO’s in mind. So as well additional staffing for the taskforce, I think this instruction implies the construction or procurement of new UAP/USP observation capabilities for all branches of the military too.

    Crucially, this new unit is not being formed in the shadows but in the open. There will therefore be an expectation that it regularly reports it’s activities and findings to Congress.

    This weekend feels like an important waypoint to an historic Friday night Presidential press conference in the not too distant future.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    I've forgotten - what was your Cummings 'break the rules' position?
    I couldn't get worked up about that, I was on his side - I thought people should be able to isolate in second homes if they had one, or in a house on their parents land in his case
    I see. Although not really, since the 'hypocrisy' point is almost identical. But of course there IS a big difference between the 2 cases and it's the one that I intuit clinches things for you. Cummings is a Leaver and the Cock's Remain. Spooky, aren't I?
    Ah! Your antennas on the blink again. Give it a thwack
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited June 2021
    moonshine said:

    Away from the Hancock dead cat and back to the news:

    https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jun/25/2002749916/-1/-1/1/DEPUTY-SECRETARY-OF-DEFENSE-MEMORANDUM-ON-UNIDENTIFIED-AERIAL-PHENOMENA-ASSESSMENTS.PDF

    Following yesterday’s UAP report to Congress, the senior leadership of the US military has now received a new set of instructions. It underlines that the UAP issue is a critical one for operational security and that this should not just be the the responsibility of the Navy to engage with but all branches of the military (the Air Force and CIA have thus far refused to cooperate with the work of the UAP Taskforce).

    Basically Harry Reid’s $22m temporary ufo skunkworks has got the scale and permanence of the US Executive behind it. The memo orders the synchronisation of UAP data collection, reporting and analysis across all branches.

    It will be under the purview of the Chair of the Joint Chiefs (among others), with the goal of ensuring that any UAP activity is escalated within two weeks of occurrence.

    Obama has said he asked to see the ufo files when he came to office and was shown nothing. Despite the Nimitz incident taking place 4 years before his inauguration. The UAP Taskforce report refers to “regular anecdotes” that were not formally recorded. Sounds to me like the White House now wants to firmly take the reigns on this and get as much data as it can. The report bemoaned that not only had stigma hampered data collection, but that the detecting equipment was not designed with capturing UFO’s in mind. So as well additional staffing for the taskforce, I think this instruction implies the construction or procurement of new UAP/USP observation capabilities for all branches of the military too.

    Crucially, this new unit is not being formed in the shadows but in the open. There will therefore be an expectation that it regularly reports it’s activities and findings to Congress.

    This weekend feels like an important waypoint to an historic Friday night Presidential press conference in the not too distant future.

    Perhaps the Hancock dead cat stuff is being orchestrated by the aliens?

    The coincidence is spooky.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,804
    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The confrontation Ledbetter got yesterday was a disgrace, and if Starmer had anything about him he'd be out supporting Leadbetter in BS perhaps even knocking a few doors for her.
    He's been quiet about it if he has supported her

    Why was it though?

    She was challenged in the street by someone. Something that will happen to politicians across the divide in all elections. An experienced, or savvy, campaigner would be able to shut it down quite Easily.

    She showed her jnexperience and lack of political nous.
    Has to begin somewhere. We all do.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    ping said:

    moonshine said:

    Away from the Hancock dead cat and back to the news:

    https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jun/25/2002749916/-1/-1/1/DEPUTY-SECRETARY-OF-DEFENSE-MEMORANDUM-ON-UNIDENTIFIED-AERIAL-PHENOMENA-ASSESSMENTS.PDF

    Following yesterday’s UAP report to Congress, the senior leadership of the US military has now received a new set of instructions. It underlines that the UAP issue is a critical one for operational security and that this should not just be the the responsibility of the Navy to engage with but all branches of the military (the Air Force and CIA have thus far refused to cooperate with the work of the UAP Taskforce).

    Basically Harry Reid’s $22m temporary ufo skunkworks has got the scale and permanence of the US Executive behind it. The memo orders the synchronisation of UAP data collection, reporting and analysis across all branches.

    It will be under the purview of the Chair of the Joint Chiefs (among others), with the goal of ensuring that any UAP activity is escalated within two weeks of occurrence.

    Obama has said he asked to see the ufo files when he came to office and was shown nothing. Despite the Nimitz incident taking place 4 years before his inauguration. The UAP Taskforce report refers to “regular anecdotes” that were not formally recorded. Sounds to me like the White House now wants to firmly take the reigns on this and get as much data as it can. The report bemoaned that not only had stigma hampered data collection, but that the detecting equipment was not designed with capturing UFO’s in mind. So as well additional staffing for the taskforce, I think this instruction implies the construction or procurement of new UAP/USP observation capabilities for all branches of the military too.

    Crucially, this new unit is not being formed in the shadows but in the open. There will therefore be an expectation that it regularly reports it’s activities and findings to Congress.

    This weekend feels like an important waypoint to an historic Friday night Presidential press conference in the not too distant future.

    Perhaps the Hancock dead cat stuff is being orchestrated by the aliens?

    The coincidence is spooky.
    If indeed there even are organic beings controlling these craft, I suspect they don’t give two shits about orchestrating anything we get up to.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,712
    edited June 2021
    isam said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    I was one who said he should stay in the yougov snap poll. I am not one to call for sackings without a proper investigation, particularly into how she got her posts and who else he did favours for.
    Another PBer on opinion pollsters speed dial! What a representative sample

    I don’t think there’s a need to over complicate this one - he told us not to kiss & hug our families at Christmas, he banned people from visiting dying loved ones, millions of sacrifices have been made and he has been caught at it with another mans wife, or more importantly risking disease with a contact from another household by breaking his own rules.

    O-U-T spells out
    Anyone can sign up to the Yougov daily panel. 3 questions per day, with results the same day. They weight the results by party etc.

    It is a principle that I try to follow to not call for sackings, or to accuse individuals of racism etc. I am more interested in the systemic than the individual people in politics. What's the point of ditching Hancock to just replace him with another yes-man from the Chumocracy?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,714
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,544
    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    That is an excellent piece of work. Thanks for the link.

    We can see that Labour are being impeded by an inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate. We can see the tensions in the Muslim community. And we can see George, smart enough to make sure his fingerprints were nowhere near it.
    I didn’t realise the bloke having a go at her was from Birmingham. What a pillock.
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's the same bloke from Birmingham who was ringleader of the pile-on against LGBT education in a number of Birmingham schools in 2019. It's a great pity that the Imams in Batley haven't told him to keep away (although it is, of course, possible that they have and he's ignored them). He's a shit-stirrer of the worst kind.
    Was he involved in the Batley Grammar School education spat? Genuine question - I don't know.
    I don't think so. I think he just focuses on anti-LGBT stuff in schools; Batley Grammar was about dodgy cartoons.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    Over in B&S quite remarkable coverage


    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1408722355631923201

    That is an excellent piece of work. Thanks for the link.

    We can see that Labour are being impeded by an inexperienced and possibly fragile candidate. We can see the tensions in the Muslim community. And we can see George, smart enough to make sure his fingerprints were nowhere near it.
    I didn’t realise the bloke having a go at her was from Birmingham. What a pillock.
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's the same bloke from Birmingham who was ringleader of the pile-on against LGBT education in a number of Birmingham schools in 2019. It's a great pity that the Imams in Batley haven't told him to keep away (although it is, of course, possible that they have and he's ignored them). He's a shit-stirrer of the worst kind.
    Was he involved in the Batley Grammar School education spat? Genuine question - I don't know.
    I don't think so. I think he just focuses on anti-LGBT stuff in schools; Batley Grammar was about dodgy cartoons.
    On his Twitter he was cheering on the pile on from the sidelines. No evidence he went there in person.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,266
    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    1h
    Here’s how the Freedom March crowds look from the sky. We are hovering above Oxford St, aerial footage courtesy of ⁦
    @reformparty_uk

    https://twitter.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1408763545756618755
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,712
    Andy_JS said:
    At those prices I would lay Denmark. Their defence is aging and this a rare progression out of the group stage for them.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,556
    I can't remember a byelection where they all deserve to lose as much as B&S. If this was happening in many parts of the south the LDs would be at 1/20 by now.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,253
    edited June 2021
    isam said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    I was one who said he should stay in the yougov snap poll. I am not one to call for sackings without a proper investigation, particularly into how she got her posts and who else he did favours for.
    Another PBer on opinion pollsters speed dial! What a representative sample

    I don’t think there’s a need to over complicate this one - he told us not to kiss & hug our families at Christmas, he banned people from visiting dying loved ones, millions of sacrifices have been made and he has been caught at it with another mans wife, or more importantly risking disease with a contact from another household by breaking his own rules.

    O-U-T spells out
    The 'hypocrisy' point is strong - so's the 'jobs for mates' angle - but for me it really isn't the story. It's more about precisely what he was doing. It's incredibly crass and immature. That furtive peep to check the coast is clear, then the illicit little snog in an office corridor. From the Secretary of State for Health. I mean, c'mon. There's a lot of David Brent in there - never a good thing. It destroys his dignity and authority in a way that breaking distancing rules in another (less cringey) way would not have done. If he truly wants to ride this out and carry on he must have the skin of a rhino.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,266
    The heat wave that’s now underway in the Pacific Northwest is unlike anything the region has ever experienced. Some places are expected to break their all-time temperature records before noon, for multiple days in a row. That’s just unheard of.

    https://twitter.com/currently/status/1408632750958129152
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,253
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    I've forgotten - what was your Cummings 'break the rules' position?
    I couldn't get worked up about that, I was on his side - I thought people should be able to isolate in second homes if they had one, or in a house on their parents land in his case
    I see. Although not really, since the 'hypocrisy' point is almost identical. But of course there IS a big difference between the 2 cases and it's the one that I intuit clinches things for you. Cummings is a Leaver and the Cock's Remain. Spooky, aren't I?
    Ah! Your antennas on the blink again. Give it a thwack
    Nobody expects you to admit it.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,909

    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    1h
    Here’s how the Freedom March crowds look from the sky. We are hovering above Oxford St, aerial footage courtesy of ⁦
    @reformparty_uk

    https://twitter.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1408763545756618755

    Look forward to seeing the helicopter rental in their returns to the Electoral Commission!
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,602
    edited June 2021
    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    If someone betrays the person they committed their lives to, how can we trust them to be true to their commitments to voters they don't even know?
    This conversation is very interesting.

    When I point out occasionally that I look for consistency between a politician's life and their beliefs I usually get blanked. eg Politician on their own in a huge house complaining about homelessness, and showing no willingness to convert it into flats.

    Yet for some it has suddenly become very very important :smile:

    On the 'lie to your spouse, lie to the public' thing, I think that is an argument for every generation. When it is prominent, it may mean for one thing that the opposition are weak on policy arguments.

    The last time it curt through was with John Major, and that was after the media (?) had created a misinterpretation of what he actually meant by "Back to Basics".

    The campaign was intended as a nostalgic appeal to traditional values such as "neighbourliness, decency, courtesy". It was often interpreted as a campaign for socially conservative causes such as promoting the traditional family, though Major denied this.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    1h
    Here’s how the Freedom March crowds look from the sky. We are hovering above Oxford St, aerial footage courtesy of ⁦
    @reformparty_uk

    https://twitter.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1408763545756618755

    Is this where crowds of people walk through central London protesting against being under house arrest, and then go to the pub and complain about how they're not allowed to go to the pub?
    The government has legislated to decree who you can and cannot invite into your own home. Whether you think such restrictions remain necessary or not, it is quite frightening how quickly this has been normalised by some people as being no big deal.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    I always said England should have picked Malan to open rather than giving into temptation of calling up Banton....
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,880

    It would be nice to brand Russia Today's Galloway as the man who gave the seat to the Tories

    SKS is the man that gives all Lab seats to the Tories though.

  • Options
    AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    China backs Argentina over the Falklands.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3138819/china-hits-out-western-colonialism-it-backs-argentinas-claim

    Think it is time for us to reverse Cameron's cowardice over Tibet. And recognize democratic Taiwan while we are at it.
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    He has to resign by Monday otherwise Boris needs to sack him

    And he may find tomorrow's papers make his resignation inevitable, though of course I am speculating

    He did offer his resignation and it wasn’t accepted I understood. Maybe a, tough it out till Monday and we will see where we are old bean, I’ll give you my backing till then.

    The tricky thing for him is wether to stay with the family or choose to pack a bag and go to his other love.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,909

    It would be nice to brand Russia Today's Galloway as the man who gave the seat to the Tories

    SKS is the man that gives all Lab seats to the Tories though.
    With whom would you replace him?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    F1: intriguing qualifying. Race looking tasty.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    I was one who said he should stay in the yougov snap poll. I am not one to call for sackings without a proper investigation, particularly into how she got her posts and who else he did favours for.
    Another PBer on opinion pollsters speed dial! What a representative sample

    I don’t think there’s a need to over complicate this one - he told us not to kiss & hug our families at Christmas, he banned people from visiting dying loved ones, millions of sacrifices have been made and he has been caught at it with another mans wife, or more importantly risking disease with a contact from another household by breaking his own rules.

    O-U-T spells out
    The 'hypocrisy' point is strong - so's the 'jobs for mates' angle - but for me it really isn't the story. It's more about precisely what he was doing. It's incredibly crass and immature. That furtive peep to check the coast is clear, then the illicit little snog in an office corridor. From the Secretary of State for Health. I mean, c'mon. There's a lot of David Brent in there - never a good thing. It destroys his dignity and authority in a way that breaking distancing rules in another (less cringey) way would not have done. If he truly wants to ride this out and carry on he must have the skin of a rhino.
    Did you see the vid w the Alan Partridge soundtrack?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,909

    F1: intriguing qualifying. Race looking tasty.

    At one point in Q2, a tenth of a second covered the top five cars, and half a second covered thirteen!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    edited June 2021
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Aslan said:

    isam said:

    I find it incredible Hancock has not jumped or been pushed. Also quite incredible that there are so many people, according to the two snap polls, who back him.

    Sadly Johnson as PM has normalised adultery.
    Well, adultery is not for me, but I dont think it is a sackable offence for any politician anymore - maybe that is a sign of standards slipping. But he should be sacked for the madness of doing what he did whilst telling Grandchildren not to hug Granny. The sickening propaganda we have swallowed is not compatible with the Health Secretary being seen anywhere near breaking the spirit of the rules
    I've forgotten - what was your Cummings 'break the rules' position?
    I couldn't get worked up about that, I was on his side - I thought people should be able to isolate in second homes if they had one, or in a house on their parents land in his case
    I see. Although not really, since the 'hypocrisy' point is almost identical. But of course there IS a big difference between the 2 cases and it's the one that I intuit clinches things for you. Cummings is a Leaver and the Cock's Remain. Spooky, aren't I?
    Ah! Your antennas on the blink again. Give it a thwack
    Nobody expects you to admit it.
    Which Nobody? There are hundreds on here
This discussion has been closed.