Steve Baker MP is right about the exemption for quarantine exemptions UEFA officials – politicalbett
Steve Baker – People are entitled to be furious about this exemption for UEFA officials… we can't have any elite being allowed to be exempted from rules that are crippling others… people are entitled to be furious at this breach of the rule of law. pic.twitter.com/Xte4ld3rkg
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Steve Baker for PM.1
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Third. Like in Scottish dreams.0
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Surely this is just govt breaking law in a very specific and time limited way?6
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Bloody hell, I agree with Steve Baker. I need to to re-evaluate my life.
But can anyone explain why we gave up the Champions League final by not agreeing to similar demands from UEFA but have agreed to these demands for the Euros?2 -
I think they should be exempt but so should everyone else. Does that mean I support Steve Baker or not?1
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Of course it won't undermine support. All the exemptions are cynically chosen to minimise the chance of a backlash if people weren't allowed their football tournament.
We'd have a much better chance of getting out of these restrictions if the government acted even handedly to everyone rather than protecting favoured groups like football fans, and screwing minorities that don't matter like venue owners or engaged couples.0 -
Perhaps the backlash to one accounts for conceding to the other.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell, I agree with Steve Baker. I need to to re-evaluate my life.
But can anyone explain why we gave up the Champions League final by not agreeing to similar demands from UEFA but have agreed to these demands for the Euros?0 -
Not so many weeks ago some were salivating at the prospect of us hosting every game of this tournament in front of packed, maskless crowds. While the rest of Europe looked on locked down and unvaccinated in the teeth of a roaring plague. And wondering why they hadn't had the wisdom to elect such a wonderful government?
But we've all moved on.1 -
fpt
I hear you.Gardenwalker said:
My 86 yo Dad is hoping to get his jab in NZ soon.TOPPING said:
But later.Gardenwalker said:
The same way as everyone else?Andy_JS said:
I can't see how Australia is ever going to escape from this situation.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC reporting that sweeping new restrictions are being introduced across Sydney as a fast growing new outbreak develops with no entry to Sydney and residents largely banned from leaving the city
The Health minister describes it as a very real and present danger
It is apparently a Delta covid variant
It does make you wonder if this new Delta variant of concern, just discovered, is a real threat to vaccines
Spoke to a mate of mine in Brisbane. He is furious. Joked that it will be 2023 before he gets his jab.
Meanwhile they are in a prison which was supposed to keep them safe. But hasn't. Absolutely fucking miserable.
I'd rather be us.
My family are quite happy as life has proceeded v largely as normal for the past 18 months, save the ability to travel overseas.
There are many reasons why for me that would be far from normal, being trapped in the country forbidden to leave or enter. But I can see that for many people as long as they could go to the pub or shops or have people over everything would seem fine.
For certain PB-ers, where no one is allowed to arrive or leave especially on holiday I imagine it would be like living in some kind of wet dream.
Not for me tho'.0 -
Because - World Cup 2030.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell, I agree with Steve Baker. I need to to re-evaluate my life.
But can anyone explain why we gave up the Champions League final by not agreeing to similar demands from UEFA but have agreed to these demands for the Euros?
The Champions League wasn't such a problem as we never officially had the final, it should have been in Istanbul and was moved to Lisbon when we turned it down. The Euros final is a different matter as it was always supposed to be here.
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Yup - my daughter would get fined if she allowed people to stand up in the pub, moving around, chatting and drinking as normal.maaarsh said:Of course it won't undermine support. All the exemptions are cynically chosen to minimise the chance of a backlash if people weren't allowed their football tournament.
We'd have a much better chance of getting out of these restrictions if the government acted even handedly to everyone rather than protecting favoured groups like football fans, and screwing minorities that don't matter like venue owners or engaged couples.
But for this lot it's fine. Fuck that.0 -
FPT
There was a good 90 minute Horizon documentary on the development of the vaccines that was on the BBC last week that covered the Australian one. They had a team following Pfizer, Moderna, Oxford AstraZeneca, Sinopharm/vac and University of Queensland/CSL throughout the pandemic right up until relatively recently.FrancisUrquhart said:
I presume because they thought their own vaccine was a goer? Which it was other than it gives false positives on some AIDs tests.MaxPB said:
They turned down an offer to buy 40m Pfizer doses in July of 2020. 🤦♂️Alistair said:
No, it reflects that Aus have utterly fucked up vaccine procurement.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC reporting that sweeping new restrictions are being introduced across Sydney as a fast growing new outbreak develops with no entry to Sydney and residents largely banned from leaving the city
The Health minister describes it as a very real and present danger
It is apparently a Delta covid variant
It does make you wonder if this new Delta variant of concern, just discovered, is a real threat to vaccines
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000x2tf/horizon-2021-1-horizon-special-the-vaccine0 -
Baker right on the money there.
Any elite includes G7 leaders.
Maybe its only social media but the G7 carryon seems to have caused real anger from people fed up with the petty rules they are living by.
Sadly, I expect little will change in mid July.0 -
Because now we are in the grip of the Delta Covid wave, so obviously exemptions to the rules are less risky. Er.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell, I agree with Steve Baker. I need to to re-evaluate my life.
But can anyone explain why we gave up the Champions League final by not agreeing to similar demands from UEFA but have agreed to these demands for the Euros?0 -
But that's wrong as well.eek said:
Because - World Cup 2030.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell, I agree with Steve Baker. I need to to re-evaluate my life.
But can anyone explain why we gave up the Champions League final by not agreeing to similar demands from UEFA but have agreed to these demands for the Euros?
The Champions League wasn't such a problem as we never officially had the final, it should have been in Istanbul and was moved to Lisbon when we turned it down. The Euros final is a different matter as it was always supposed to be here.
One of the reasons Portugal offered themselves this year and last year was the fact they want to be UEFA's preferred bidder alongside Spain for the 2030 world cup ahead of England.0 -
The counterfactial is the experience of this country in the past 18 months.TOPPING said:fpt
I hear you.Gardenwalker said:
My 86 yo Dad is hoping to get his jab in NZ soon.TOPPING said:
But later.Gardenwalker said:
The same way as everyone else?Andy_JS said:
I can't see how Australia is ever going to escape from this situation.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC reporting that sweeping new restrictions are being introduced across Sydney as a fast growing new outbreak develops with no entry to Sydney and residents largely banned from leaving the city
The Health minister describes it as a very real and present danger
It is apparently a Delta covid variant
It does make you wonder if this new Delta variant of concern, just discovered, is a real threat to vaccines
Spoke to a mate of mine in Brisbane. He is furious. Joked that it will be 2023 before he gets his jab.
Meanwhile they are in a prison which was supposed to keep them safe. But hasn't. Absolutely fucking miserable.
I'd rather be us.
My family are quite happy as life has proceeded v largely as normal for the past 18 months, save the ability to travel overseas.
There are many reasons why for me that would be far from normal, being trapped in the country forbidden to leave or enter. But I can see that for many people as long as they could go to the pub or shops or have people over everything would seem fine.
For certain PB-ers, where no one is allowed to arrive or leave especially on holiday I imagine it would be like living in some kind of wet dream.
Not for me tho'.
No serious person would prefer our situation, and had I know what was ahead of us in March 2020 I would have quit my job and taken my family to NZ.
It’s like night and day.1 -
Well we also thought "those silly Indians have cocked it up" before we realised that the new strain really was different.dixiedean said:Not so many weeks ago some were salivating at the prospect of us hosting every game of this tournament in front of packed, maskless crowds. While the rest of Europe looked on locked down and unvaccinated in the teeth of a roaring plague. And wondering why they hadn't had the wisdom to elect such a wonderful government?
But we've all moved on.0 -
Of course Steve Baker is right.0
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I said this morning that to deny the UEFA officials to attend the Wembley finals would see them moved abroadFishing said:I think they should be exempt but so should everyone else. Does that mean I support Steve Baker or not?
The question in this case is whether we as a Country are willing to lose this event or are we prepared to make an exemption, (though I understand all the officials will have to have had covid tests) in this case
I do however agree that everyone, and certainly those vaccinated, should be allowed travel freedom without further delay1 -
I don't necessarily agree that all should have been treated the same in all situation, but UEFA isn't remotely one of those situations.
If those with power are not inconvenienced as the rest of us are then they will have less incentive to grow some balls and get us out of this mess. This is what lies behind Baker's comments.
If the powers that be accept that there is minimal risk in the officials not having to quarantine because they will have tested negative (presumably before entry to country and shortly after arrival) and may also be vaccinated then please extend this common sense approach to all of us you fuckers.0 -
I am starting to get annoyed at how much sense Steve Baker has been talking in recent days.
This can't be right can it?7 -
Yep I hear that too. I suppose we will see what things are like in 3-6 months.Gardenwalker said:
The counterfactial is the experience of this country in the past 18 months.TOPPING said:fpt
I hear you.Gardenwalker said:
My 86 yo Dad is hoping to get his jab in NZ soon.TOPPING said:
But later.Gardenwalker said:
The same way as everyone else?Andy_JS said:
I can't see how Australia is ever going to escape from this situation.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC reporting that sweeping new restrictions are being introduced across Sydney as a fast growing new outbreak develops with no entry to Sydney and residents largely banned from leaving the city
The Health minister describes it as a very real and present danger
It is apparently a Delta covid variant
It does make you wonder if this new Delta variant of concern, just discovered, is a real threat to vaccines
Spoke to a mate of mine in Brisbane. He is furious. Joked that it will be 2023 before he gets his jab.
Meanwhile they are in a prison which was supposed to keep them safe. But hasn't. Absolutely fucking miserable.
I'd rather be us.
My family are quite happy as life has proceeded v largely as normal for the past 18 months, save the ability to travel overseas.
There are many reasons why for me that would be far from normal, being trapped in the country forbidden to leave or enter. But I can see that for many people as long as they could go to the pub or shops or have people over everything would seem fine.
For certain PB-ers, where no one is allowed to arrive or leave especially on holiday I imagine it would be like living in some kind of wet dream.
Not for me tho'.
No serious person would prefer our situation, and had I know what was ahead of us in March 2020 I would have quit my job and taken my family to NZ.
It’s like night and day.0 -
Just another example where Keir can’t recognise a political opportunity if it hit him in the face with a giant haddock.1
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The papers are full of 'we are deffo going ahead' stories today....rottenborough said:Baker right on the money there.
Any elite includes G7 leaders.
Maybe its only social media but the G7 carryon seems to have caused real anger from people fed up with the petty rules they are living by.
Sadly, I expect little will change in mid July.0 -
FPT, and DecrepiterJohnL
"If it is fake then that surely is evidence that videos of UAPs can be faked. With hindsight, perhaps the "RC" logo should have been a clue.
New thread btw."
+++++
Aww, bless. You actually thought the dancing planes were real?
And you flex at others for being credulous about UFOS?! You believed in DANCING PLANES
But we all make insane and childish mistakes, and you have the honesty to blush, so we let it pass0 -
Why 60k at Wembley for football?
Then only 45k, at the same venue, for the RL Challenge Cup six days later? Precious few from overseas.0 -
And unfortunately "elites being allowed to be exempted from rules" is, if not government policy, certainly established government practice.rkrkrk said:Surely this is just govt breaking law in a very specific and time limited way?
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Man the case rate in Scotland just seems to have exploded. Wonder what's going on.0
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Rugby league isn't that popular, basically it is a M62 game.dixiedean said:Why 60k at Wembley for football?
Then only 45k, at the same venue, for the RL Challenge Cup six days later? Precious few from overseas.
Rugby union, now that's popular and proper rugby.
It is the reason why the RFU have their own home whilst the rugby league teams wander about like travellers.0 -
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
If the UEFA officials attend, the conditions should include compulsory attendance at England's next match. It may be the only way to cure their love of football.2 -
As an aside... 16k cases today... % change going back up... numbers in hospital are rising too, but admissions don't seem to be going up much... I guess will be about a week before this big increase in cases feeds through.0
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If the quarantine restrictions are necessary, and they prevent us having to extend other restrictions, then for how long are you prepared to extend other restrictions on weddings, pubs, etc, in the UK, in exchange for allowing UEFA VIPs to break the quarantine restrictions?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I said this morning that to deny the UEFA officials to attend the Wembley finals would see them moved abroadFishing said:I think they should be exempt but so should everyone else. Does that mean I support Steve Baker or not?
The question in this case is whether we as a Country are willing to lose this event or are we prepared to make an exemption, (though I understand all the officials will have to have had covid tests) in this case
I do however agree that everyone, and certainly those vaccinated, should be allowed travel freedom without further delay
If that trade-off does not exist then there's no need to have the quarantine restrictions at all - though our experience with Delta Covid suggests otherwise.0 -
Cases up quite a bit (we seem to get a step change once a week at the moment, rather odd) but hospital beds occupied went down 4% (50) which looks to be a correction of the data issue when it appeared to spike over the weekend.0
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LOL. I yield to no one in my estimation of him as a man of rare perspicacity and wisdom. Seeking out truth where'er he goes.rottenborough said:I am starting to get annoyed at how much sense Steve Baker has been talking in recent days.
This can't be right can it?
First pointing out the bonkersness of some of the govt's lockdown policy and now this.
Mr Francois? Your time approaches...0 -
I don't know but we all know the solution involves Scottish independence, am I right?MaxPB said:Man the case rate in Scotland just seems to have exploded. Wonder what's going on.
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It's not new either, there has always been exemptions to the various quarantine requirements for certain classes of people.Stuartinromford said:
And unfortunately "elites being allowed to be exempted from rules" is, if not government policy, certainly established government practice.rkrkrk said:Surely this is just govt breaking law in a very specific and time limited way?
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This is Castle Barnard in a football kit.2
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Probably less risky for us. Not so much for the UEFA "officials" or the countries they go back to.LostPassword said:
Because now we are in the grip of the Delta Covid wave, so obviously exemptions to the rules are less risky. Er.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell, I agree with Steve Baker. I need to to re-evaluate my life.
But can anyone explain why we gave up the Champions League final by not agreeing to similar demands from UEFA but have agreed to these demands for the Euros?
Will they not all be banned from travelling to the UK anyway?0 -
If we remove restrictions on the 19th I dont care about the UEFA Final.
Obviously we won't but imagine the furore if England were in the semi's and the government backtracked meaning UEFA shift the final to Budapdest which we subsequently lose.
Having said that if Uefa move the final once England are knocked out I couldn't give a monkeys.0 -
One thing the pandemic has shown is that is is rare for any country to ever learn anything from what is happening elsewhere. We only seem to learn when we make the same mistakes ourselves.Flatlander said:Probably less risky for us. Not so much for the UEFA "officials" or the countries they go back to.
Will they not all be banned from travelling to the UK anyway?
1 -
I do know that as well as universities a lot of schools are very affected by it atm. Perhaps that is driving numbers. Friends of mine have had their children sent home, are isolating, the lot. I think some schools have closed but don't have details.0
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*DELTA VARIANT SEEN IN 20% OF RECENT US COVID CASES: CDC CHIEF*0
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RFL sell out Challenge Cup and the Grand Final every year, but with a high proportion of sales to neutrals who go every year - it really is a day for the 'League community'. Course, the social mixing implications of that will be somewhat different from 2 (limited) blocks of fans.TheScreamingEagles said:
Rugby league isn't that popular, basically it is a M62 game.dixiedean said:Why 60k at Wembley for football?
Then only 45k, at the same venue, for the RL Challenge Cup six days later? Precious few from overseas.
Rugby union, now that's popular and proper rugby.
It is the reason why the RFU have their own home whilst the rugby league teams wander about like travellers.0 -
Indeed.glw said:
One thing the pandemic has shown is that is is rare for any country to ever learn anything from what is happening elsewhere. We only seem to learn when we make the same mistakes ourselves.Flatlander said:Probably less risky for us. Not so much for the UEFA "officials" or the countries they go back to.
Will they not all be banned from travelling to the UK anyway?
There was some thought that this phenomenon was due to 'British exceptionalism' or some such, but it turns out that every country is the same.0 -
The steepness of the increase in Scottish cases is astonishing.0
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....rkrkrk said:As an aside... 16k cases today... % change going back up... numbers in hospital are rising too, but admissions don't seem to be going up much... I guess will be about a week before this big increase in cases feeds through.
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Good job we haven't had a load of Scots go travelling to England and back recently....LostPassword said:The steepness of the increase in Scottish cases is astonishing.
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Its almost like there is a data problem as the increase is just mad.LostPassword said:The steepness of the increase in Scottish cases is astonishing.
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Me too.Gardenwalker said:
The counterfactial is the experience of this country in the past 18 months.TOPPING said:fpt
I hear you.Gardenwalker said:
My 86 yo Dad is hoping to get his jab in NZ soon.TOPPING said:
But later.Gardenwalker said:
The same way as everyone else?Andy_JS said:
I can't see how Australia is ever going to escape from this situation.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC reporting that sweeping new restrictions are being introduced across Sydney as a fast growing new outbreak develops with no entry to Sydney and residents largely banned from leaving the city
The Health minister describes it as a very real and present danger
It is apparently a Delta covid variant
It does make you wonder if this new Delta variant of concern, just discovered, is a real threat to vaccines
Spoke to a mate of mine in Brisbane. He is furious. Joked that it will be 2023 before he gets his jab.
Meanwhile they are in a prison which was supposed to keep them safe. But hasn't. Absolutely fucking miserable.
I'd rather be us.
My family are quite happy as life has proceeded v largely as normal for the past 18 months, save the ability to travel overseas.
There are many reasons why for me that would be far from normal, being trapped in the country forbidden to leave or enter. But I can see that for many people as long as they could go to the pub or shops or have people over everything would seem fine.
For certain PB-ers, where no one is allowed to arrive or leave especially on holiday I imagine it would be like living in some kind of wet dream.
Not for me tho'.
No serious person would prefer our situation, and had I know what was ahead of us in March 2020 I would have quit my job and taken my family to NZ.
It’s like night and day.
Holidaying abroad is all well and good, but seems to be a long way down the hierarchy of needs. NZ is boring, they say. Here is just as boring when pretty much any indoor leisure activity is either illegal or made so unpleasant by mask and social distancing requirements that any enjoyment is dead on arrival. Sure, we can enjoy the outdoors, but so can the New Zealanders, and their outdoors is rather less crowded. And much of the UK's finest countryside is off limits - we can't even go to Scotland or Wales because they're run by an insane pixie and a gloomy rock troll respectively.2 -
Fortunately, there's not going to be any need for them to travel so much in the future...FrancisUrquhart said:
Good job we haven't had a load of Scots go travelling to England and back recently....LostPassword said:The steepness of the increase in Scottish cases is astonishing.
4 -
Jill Biden was in Tennessee yesterday pointing out only 3 in 10 of the state's population are vaccinated.Leon said:*DELTA VARIANT SEEN IN 20% OF RECENT US COVID CASES: CDC CHIEF*
America may be a lab for vaccination in the same way as it was a lab for lockdown.0 -
Tried to post this earlier - one group "Liberal Remainers" (a lot of the commentariat and a fair chunk of twitter?) hold distinctly different views from most of their fellow citizens:
https://twitter.com/GideonSkinner/status/1407654748027817985?s=20
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/five-years-brexit-and-forces-underlying-it-continues-shape-public-opinion1 -
Case growth in England has ticked up from 33% to 36% if these bigger case numbers were going to feed into hospitalisations then we would already be seeing it happen as two weeks ago cases were already around 6.5k.rkrkrk said:As an aside... 16k cases today... % change going back up... numbers in hospital are rising too, but admissions don't seem to be going up much... I guess will be about a week before this big increase in cases feeds through.
The reason is this heatmap:
Groups that are susceptible to hospitalisation aren't getting infected very much at all because the vaccine are highly effective at preventing symptomatic infection.
At the same point in the previous wave for the Beta variant the same heatmap looked like this:
Which led to rolling average of 450 hospitalisations per day vs about 185 at the moment.
Additionally, we don't know what the proportion of hospitalisations is coming from vaccine refusers. It's the elephant in the room that no politician wants to discuss because the answer is that people who have said no to taking the vaccine are going to have a very high risk of hospitalisation and death post-unlockdown. There's no way around that and we can't stay locked down forever to protect vaccine refusers.2 -
Logically, yes. But we don't have government by logic, we have government by anticipated opinion poll. The Government reckons that football fans will be really pleased and few others will care very much, and they're probably correct. If it does set off more cases, well, the victims probably won't realise why.Gardenwalker said:Of course Steve Baker is right.
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The same thing happened in St Ives last week.
One rule for elite. One rule for the plebs. Boris is going to throw away all that goodwill he has very quickly if he keeps on like this.0 -
It is late September 2045, and Prime Minister Romeo Beckham announces Lockdown 941, where we will all be sealed in perspex jars for two years, as the proud British nation of 4 million people comes together to fight Variant Sigma-Ѯ-Ѿ-BBF55/OMG
There will be an official clapping of the National Deepfake Hands by Overlord GPT-1000 when the clock strikes -31 -
And an absolutely huge portion of the case growth is coming from Scotland which makes no difference to England's unlockdown plans.maaarsh said:
Number in hospital fell today.rkrkrk said:As an aside... 16k cases today... % change going back up... numbers in hospital are rising too, but admissions don't seem to be going up much... I guess will be about a week before this big increase in cases feeds through.
1 -
Sturgeon spent last year keeping Scotland under greater and longer restrictions than England, resulting in Scotland having about 30% fewer cases per 100,000 of population than England. This resulted in Scotland having less herd immunity. Now this means that the virus finds it easier to spread in Scotland, so there are more cases there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I don't know but we all know the solution involves Scottish independence, am I right?MaxPB said:Man the case rate in Scotland just seems to have exploded. Wonder what's going on.
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Yep.contrarian said:
Jill Biden was in Tennessee yesterday pointing out only 3 in 10 of the state's population are vaccinated.Leon said:*DELTA VARIANT SEEN IN 20% OF RECENT US COVID CASES: CDC CHIEF*
America may be a lab for vaccination in the same way as it was a lab for lockdown.
America is about to prove that you can get away with unlockdowning despite massive vaccine hesitancy and the Delta DoublePlusBad Bug. Or, it is about to prove that this is monumental folly0 -
You can compare it too, to the last time cases were rising and reached 16,000. Those dates were 24/10/2020 and 01/12/2020.MaxPB said:
Case growth in England has ticked up from 33% to 36% if these bigger case numbers were going to feed into hospitalisations then we would already be seeing it happen as two weeks ago cases were already around 6.5k.rkrkrk said:As an aside... 16k cases today... % change going back up... numbers in hospital are rising too, but admissions don't seem to be going up much... I guess will be about a week before this big increase in cases feeds through.
The reason is this heatmap:
Groups that are susceptible to hospitalisation aren't getting infected very much at all because the vaccine are highly effective at preventing symptomatic infection.
At the same point in the previous wave for the Beta variant the same heatmap looked like this:
Which led to rolling average of 450 hospitalisations per day vs about 185 at the moment.
Additionally, we don't know what the proportion of hospitalisations is coming from vaccine refusers. It's the elephant in the room that no politician wants to discuss because the answer is that people who have said no to taking the vaccine are going to have a very high risk of hospitalisation and death post-unlockdown. There's no way around that and we can't stay locked down forever to protect vaccine refusers.
On 24/10/2020 There were 214 deaths, 1,257 admissions, 9,262 in hospital
On 01/12/2020 there were 399 deaths, 1,490 admissions, 16,311 in hospital
This time, the numbers are 19 deaths, 211 admissions, 1,508 in hospital.
That is the difference that mass vaccination makes5 -
It's similar to the rise in cases seen in Ireland over Christmas, so not unprecedented.NerysHughes said:
Its almost like there is a data problem as the increase is just mad.LostPassword said:The steepness of the increase in Scottish cases is astonishing.
I assume that it will be for a similar reason - everyone making an exception at the same time for a special event to gather and enjoy themselves. In this case the football tournament instead of Christmas.
The difference now is that most people will have protection from the vaccines, but this will infect enough people that it will see some unlucky sods get seriously ill regardless, and the unvaccinated too.
I reckon everyone could get infected and the health system would manage thanks to the vaccines, but I wonder whether the politicians will be able to stay calm in the face of these increases.0 -
My son's wedding in 6 weeks is being attended by some of our Scots family and that is 450 miles across Scotland, England and Wales and of course backrcs1000 said:
Fortunately, there's not going to be any need for them to travel so much in the future...FrancisUrquhart said:
Good job we haven't had a load of Scots go travelling to England and back recently....LostPassword said:The steepness of the increase in Scottish cases is astonishing.
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UK cases by specimen date
Note: Need to recalibrate the range for colours.. 500 was the max...
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PCR positivity - England
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Well said.Brom said:If we remove restrictions on the 19th I dont care about the UEFA Final.
Obviously we won't but imagine the furore if England were in the semi's and the government backtracked meaning UEFA shift the final to Budapdest which we subsequently lose.
Having said that if Uefa move the final once England are knocked out I couldn't give a monkeys.
I agree with Baker on almost all of what he's said since last November at least on this, plus I think it was atrocious to not lift lockdown on Monday, but I disagree here.
Three principles.- We ought to be removing restrictions not adding them (I'm assuming Baker agrees with this)
- The government have been doing 'trials' preceding the removal of restrictions. No reason this can't be such a trial, that then sees it rolled out to the rest of the public.
- Quantitatively doing something different with 2,500 people who are then tested and followed up is a different level of risk than doing something different with 67 million.
0 - We ought to be removing restrictions not adding them (I'm assuming Baker agrees with this)
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Well NZ aren't bothered about watching the football at 17:00.0
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UK case summary
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UK Hospitals
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Scotland is because footie fans, apparently
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57580118
Whatever the explanation, if this rise continues I cannot see how Sturgeon abandons all restrictions in early August, just as the schools go back
Scotland could be in for a long slog.
Shut the door in Hadrian's Wall!, Boris!0 -
UK deaths
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It makes a good headline but there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands similarly exempt from quarantine each and every day with no publicity given to them. 2500 from UEFA makes negligible difference apart from media driven awareness.
Seasonal agricultural workers get exemptions, anyone working in IT and telecoms gets exemptions if their boss says the work is important, people who regularly work abroad (presumably quite high risk) get exemptions, along with dozens of other jobs.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules#regular-work-abroad1 -
Perhaps we should shut the border. Geese and ganders and all that...MaxPB said:
And an absolutely huge portion of the case growth is coming from Scotland which makes no difference to England's unlockdown plans.maaarsh said:
Number in hospital fell today.rkrkrk said:As an aside... 16k cases today... % change going back up... numbers in hospital are rising too, but admissions don't seem to be going up much... I guess will be about a week before this big increase in cases feeds through.
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Not before the 31st July, our son's weddingLeon said:Scotland is because footie fans, apparently
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57580118
Whatever the explanation, if this rise continues I cannot see how Sturgeon abandons all restrictions in early August, just as the schools go back
Scotland could be in for a long slog.
Shut the door in Hadrian's Wall!, Boris!0 -
UK R
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The jolt upwards in cases (especially in Scotland and the North East of England) is disappointing.
On the flip side, the ratio of hospitalisations and number of people in hospital continues to reduce.
If even 4% of cases ended up hospitalised, we'd be past 300 admissions per day in England alone by now, while the rolling 7-day average actually tweaked down to 183 today.
The number hospitalised would be north of 2,000 in England now; today, it dropped very slightly to 1,255.
I don't mean to downplay the potential problems that could arise still with rapid growth. After all, even a 25-year-old man with no medical issues still has a 1%-2% chance of hospitalisation if unvaccinated - but every day there are fewer unvaccinated 25-year olds, and the same goes for all remaining 18-29 adults.
It's possible we're seeing what happens when an ever-increasing chunk of the younger population have 1 dose, which doesn't reduce symptomatic infection by a huge amount - but does reduce the risk of hospitalisation by a hefty 80% or so. And we know that even breakthrough infections are considerably less serious in the vaccinated than they would have been if left unvaccinated.
Hopefully the ratio between hospitalisations and cases will continue to drop still further, and we'll end up with cases numbers becoming less and less relevant.4 -
Age related data
0 -
Glasgow and Edinburgh basically doubled in a single day?Malmesbury said:UK cases by specimen date
Note: Need to recalibrate the range for colours.. 500 was the max...
Lumme
Everyone unvaxxed in Scotland is going to catch this.0 -
Well it's not a million miles from reality.Leon said:FPT, and DecrepiterJohnL
"If it is fake then that surely is evidence that videos of UAPs can be faked. With hindsight, perhaps the "RC" logo should have been a clue.
New thread btw."
+++++
Aww, bless. You actually thought the dancing planes were real?
And you flex at others for being credulous about UFOS?! You believed in DANCING PLANES
But we all make insane and childish mistakes, and you have the honesty to blush, so we let it pass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK1GChMOnrQ0 -
Additionally, we don't know what the proportion of hospitalisations is coming from vaccine refusers. It's the elephant in the room that no politician wants to discuss because the answer is that people who have said no to taking the vaccine are going to have a very high risk of hospitalisation and death post-unlockdown. There's no way around that and we can't stay locked down forever to protect vaccine refusers.
It would be interesting to know that but one suspects a slight nervousness around that as it will, if the targeting of the "get vaccinated" campaigns are any guide, indicate a degree of race-based differentiation.2 -
Boris?Leon said:Scotland is because footie fans, apparently
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57580118
Whatever the explanation, if this rise continues I cannot see how Sturgeon abandons all restrictions in early August, just as the schools go back
Scotland could be in for a long slog.
Shut the door in Hadrian's Wall!, Boris!
The King of the North should do it.0 -
It will be the fault of the damn English, er, I mean Westminster government.TheScreamingEagles said:
I don't know but we all know the solution involves Scottish independence, am I right?MaxPB said:Man the case rate in Scotland just seems to have exploded. Wonder what's going on.
0 -
COVID Summary
Cases up alot.
Of most interest is that the admissions for England have plateaued or started falling across the entire age range.0 -
Er the UK figure was 1508 on Monday, up from 1378. Or do you have more recent figures than the gov.uk Coronavirus summary?maaarsh said:Cases up quite a bit (we seem to get a step change once a week at the moment, rather odd) but hospital beds occupied went down 4% (50) which looks to be a correction of the data issue when it appeared to spike over the weekend.
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If that happens it is devastating for labourFloater said:0 -
What a load of old tosh.CarlottaVance said:Tried to post this earlier - one group "Liberal Remainers" (a lot of the commentariat and a fair chunk of twitter?) hold distinctly different views from most of their fellow citizens:
https://twitter.com/GideonSkinner/status/1407654748027817985?s=20
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/five-years-brexit-and-forces-underlying-it-continues-shape-public-opinion0 -
As mentioned earlier, I'm expecting a bit of an uptick in the rate of increase this week due to:rkrkrk said:As an aside... 16k cases today... % change going back up... numbers in hospital are rising too, but admissions don't seem to be going up much... I guess will be about a week before this big increase in cases feeds through.
- Universities on the full exponential growth phase (but should be short sharp spike and many start breaking up soon)
- A large portion of shire districts in a rectangle with London, Bristol, Southampton and Sheffield on each edge going through their Delta growth phases, but most will probably top out below 150 case rate in the next 2-3 weeks.
- A 5-10% extra driver in that the previous week we are comparing against is starting to be after the mini heatwave earlier in June.0 -
deleted0
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Details of the proportion of hospitalisations is coming from actual vaccine refusers is not possible, I guess, because it goes to motive for not having the jab.AnExileinD4 said:Additionally, we don't know what the proportion of hospitalisations is coming from vaccine refusers. It's the elephant in the room that no politician wants to discuss because the answer is that people who have said no to taking the vaccine are going to have a very high risk of hospitalisation and death post-unlockdown. There's no way around that and we can't stay locked down forever to protect vaccine refusers.
It would be interesting to know that but one suspects a slight nervousness around that as it will, if the targeting of the "get vaccinated" campaigns are any guide, indicate a degree of race-based differentiation.
However, we should know the proportion of new hospitalisations which are not vaccinated (for whatever reason), only had one jab, etc. This information exists somewhere surely?0 -
Yes, I think the link between cases and hospitalisations is now broken and we have got strong evidence for that. What's also very encouraging is that under 40s are all getting Pfizer and Moderna which is a very fast acting vaccine, within 10 days efficacy with a single dose reaches a very good level while it takes 28 days with AZ to get a comparable level of efficacy. We're also still doing around 1.5m first doses per week at the moment and we've only got about 5m left to do in total before all of the supply can be switched to second doses.Andy_Cooke said:The jolt upwards in cases (especially in Scotland and the North East of England) is disappointing.
On the flip side, the ratio of hospitalisations and number of people in hospital continues to reduce.
If even 4% of cases ended up hospitalised, we'd be past 300 admissions per day in England alone by now, while the rolling 7-day average actually tweaked down to 183 today.
The number hospitalised would be north of 2,000 in England now; today, it dropped very slightly to 1,255.
I don't mean to downplay the potential problems that could arise still with rapid growth. After all, even a 25-year-old man with no medical issues still has a 1%-2% chance of hospitalisation if unvaccinated - but every day there are fewer unvaccinated 25-year olds, and the same goes for all remaining 18-29 adults.
It's possible we're seeing what happens when an ever-increasing chunk of the younger population have 1 dose, which doesn't reduce symptomatic infection by a huge amount - but does reduce the risk of hospitalisation by a hefty 80% or so. And we know that even breakthrough infections are considerably less serious in the vaccinated than they would have been if left unvaccinated.
Hopefully the ratio between hospitalisations and cases will continue to drop still further, and we'll end up with cases numbers becoming less and less relevant.3 -
Yes, but also everywhere else looks like - Falkirk, Angus, Fife, South Lanarkshire, etc, scan down the chart looking for rapid recent increases and they're all in Scotland (and Wakefield).Leon said:
Glasgow and Edinburgh basically doubled in a single day?Malmesbury said:UK cases by specimen date
Note: Need to recalibrate the range for colours.. 500 was the max...
Lumme
Everyone unvaxxed in Scotland is going to catch this.0 -
Batley and Spen sounds charming. Like Karachi but with much more rainNigel_Foremain said:
What a load of old tosh.CarlottaVance said:Tried to post this earlier - one group "Liberal Remainers" (a lot of the commentariat and a fair chunk of twitter?) hold distinctly different views from most of their fellow citizens:
https://twitter.com/GideonSkinner/status/1407654748027817985?s=20
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/five-years-brexit-and-forces-underlying-it-continues-shape-public-opinion2 -
Euphemisms on eggshells: "Residents – several of whom were speaking in Urdu – also voiced strong support for the independent candidate George Galloway."Floater said:0 -
FPT
Can you explain your logic please? That's surely backwards.contrarian said:This is funny
BBC reports that the number of applications for settled status by EU citizens is more than the estimate of the number of EU citizens living here.
Not a surprise, perhaps, but it won't be far out will it? couple of hundred thousand? tops?
.....er.......2 million.
Which I imagine, all but sinks Johnson's plans to turn the south of England into one giant property development.
If there's 2 million more people settled here than we previously thought, then that just goes to show again how deep the housing shortage is in this country and we need even more houses than we thought not fewer.
If the population had been overestimated then we'd need fewer houses not more.2 -
Having said that, isn't the standard timelineMalmesbury said:COVID Summary
Cases up alot.
Of most interest is that the admissions for England have plateaued or started falling across the entire age range.
Infection - Positive test takes about 7 days
Infection - Hospitalisation takes about 14 days?
We thought tests had plateaued about a week ago...0
