Two highlights from this morning – HealthSec Hancock the main target – politicalbetting.com
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For those more interested in a fact based approach to how the government made decisions, I would strongly recommend this thread:
https://twitter.com/surplustakes/status/1397294080057610245
It's also the answer to Leon's question. The flu-based models used by SAGE assume significant community transmission both at the outset (and, since they do not make use of lockdown, thereafter) in which particular measures to combat the spread are seen having a comparatively trivial effect. They also assume poor adherence compared to what we actually got.
It is mad now to think that even social distancing was considered to have only a small/not worth it effect.0 -
Carrie more concerned about a bad press story regarding Dilyn than the Covid situation.Gallowgate said:
What was the revelation?ping said:It shouldn’t be so, but I think the most damaging “revelation” for Boris is about Carrie and the dog.
The tabloids will lap it up
It's entirely believable.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9280195/Somebody-shoot-f-ing-dog-Boris-Johnson-growled-Dilyn-gnawed-antiques-Chequers.html1 -
He wouldn't have been able to vote for most of Boris Johnson's agenda.DavidL said:
The key to the quality of that government was Osborne. He was the one who kept it together through the quad and focused. Driving him out of politics is probably not amongst most peoples' top charge list against Mrs May (in fairness the list is long and complicated) but it was an enormous disservice to the United Kingdom.Richard_Nabavi said:
Damaged. But, wow, what a fantastically good government that one was compared with its two successors - and that's what matters.Leon said:
Unlike your hero David ‘Brexit’ Cameron? How’s his reputation, now?Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
If it wasn't Mrs May it would have been Boris Johnson.0 -
Yes, that's why I said it.Daveyboy1961 said:
successful trade deal?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?0 -
All he needs to do now is produce the proof that ManCock was lying / was told by the Cabinet Secretary he should have been fired etc0
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I'm not convinced any of this will damage Johnson's popularity, odd as that may sound.
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Did Cummings say: 50,000 were killed by Wokeness? No, it was Leon I believe.Leon said:
Cummings just said this. Not meNorthern_Al said:
Oh do shut up. Post about the weather and UFOs instead - you make more sense.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now0 -
Basically, Dom agrees with all our critiques of government covid policy. He’s our guy in number Ten. Or he was
And the reason they keep the borders open is ‘fear of being racist’. As we speculated
Head::desk0 -
They got their fancy name wrong , it should have been DUMBOTheWhiteRabbit said:
No, people died because closing the border was thought not to have an effect. It's right there in the SAGE minutes.Leon said:Fuck me
‘On border closures 👇
Before April: Official repeated advice was not to close borders. "Another groupthink thing said it was basically racist to close the borders." That was the official advice, the official advice was closing the borders would have no effect.’
50,000 were killed by Wokeness0 -
He doesn’t have it. That’s why Cummings is disgraceful really. He’s encouraging others to go looking for it in throw spaghetti to wall hunt.RochdalePioneers said:All he needs to do now is produce the proof that ManCock was lying / was told by the Cabinet Secretary he should have been fired etc
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No.gealbhan said:
Okay. 🙂Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?
So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?
If wave 3 is bad for the UK I will say "I called that wrong". I've been wrong before and I have the self-respect to admit when I was wrong.
But it won't be.1 -
Again this all seems obvious and true.IanB2 said:CNN:
Cummings claimed that the Prime Minister believed the coronavirus to be little more than a scare story and would say things like he wanted to have England's chief medical officer "inject him with Covid" live on air to prove it was nothing to worry about.
Central to Cummings's criticism of Johnson and his government is a lack of preparedness, leading to lockdowns being delayed and policies like herd immunity being pursued.
Cummings listed numerous reasons for this delay, ranging from a belief that the British public would not go along with "Wuhan-style" measures, to external distractions. These ranged from then-US President Donald Trump wanting the UK to join a bombing mission in the Middle East, to stories about Johnson's fiance, Carrie Symonds, being upset about stories in newspapers about the couple's dog. But ultimately, his main accusation was that the government was simply unprepared and the plan in place at this time was based on falsehoods.1 -
From the department of "no shit Sherlock" -
"Biden global tax proposal faces setback after Ireland objects"
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-global-tax-proposal-faces-223722614.html
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No he's Keir Starmer's guy - "Captain Hindsight" is easy to say this now, but no evidence he was saying it at the time.Leon said:Basically, Dom agrees with all our critiques of government covid policy. He’s our guy in number Ten. Or he was
And the reason they keep the borders open is ‘fear of being racist’. As we speculated
Head::desk3 -
Who are you expecting to die in Wave 3? I think in 2 months time we will have most people vaccinated (the refusers will not be that many, and we will probably start on the under 16s soon). Most serious virologists don't expect complete vaccine escape, and even if it did happen, it would be gradual, with much time to adjust to diminishing efficacy but using boosters tailored to the newer strains.gealbhan said:
Okay. 🙂Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?
So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?1 -
Much as I would like the lid to have been permanently lifted on this incompetent populist government of lightweights, I fear you may be right. Boris Johnson is (for reason unfathomable to me) quite popular. Being savaged by someone about as popular as a dose of the clap may well cause sympathy for him from the somewhat gullible public at large.algarkirk said:Thoughts: Has DC rather done a bit of this? : "Lots of people are to blame, including me. I am going into forensic and savage detail about some of the others blame but much less detail about how I personally am to blame."
Getting this right is a test of whether his evidence is tainted by personalities etc.
Secondly, since the events of last year DC is not a trusted witness for well known reasons. In order to restore this it would have to be obvious that he is being as critical about himself, and in detail, as he is about others.
I am not convinced he is passing the tests.
Thirdly, he has given a number of hostages by way of evidence which another person may be able directly to contradict. This is not an especially safe procedure when it may be a bundle of rats in a sack involved.
Tentative conclusion: Boris and friends safe for now.1 -
He’s quite plausible about Barnard Castle. I tend to believe him1
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I still love Jeremy Hunt's eyes. A sufficient hint of unhinged with every other look.1
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I wonder how much the fisher folk, the farmers, the car workers, the haulage industry and the investments industry agree with you..Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.Daveyboy1961 said:
successful trade deal?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?1 -
What about Jacinda Ardern?TheScreamingEagles said:
There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
I see the Cambridge-educated lawyers on here are getting no better at spelling the names of world leaders.1 -
Biden’s going to get nowhere with this, while his own country’s corporate tax regime has so many loopholes and special deals with large companies.DougSeal said:From the department of "no shit Sherlock" -
"Biden global tax proposal faces setback after Ireland objects"
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-global-tax-proposal-faces-223722614.html
Sort yourself out first, then the rest of the world might listen.1 -
Auto-correct.Anabobazina said:
What about Jacinda Ardern?TheScreamingEagles said:
There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
I see the Cambridge-educated lawyers on here are getting no better at spelling the names of world leaders.0 -
Fpt
Became the best PM that the UK never had?DavidL said:
I think the liar in that case Malcolm made the mistake of adhibiting his name. It was an Alex Salmond. Whatever happened to him?
©someidiot0 -
2
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They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.
Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.1 -
At 70%+ vaccination (and climbing) a third wave anything like the second wave is impossible so you are pretty safe.Philip_Thompson said:
No.gealbhan said:
Okay. 🙂Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?
So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?
If wave 3 is bad for the UK I will say "I called that wrong". I've been wrong before and I have the self-respect to admit when I was wrong.
But it won't be.1 -
You mean the one that resulted in the event that you consider one of the greatest catastrophes in modern times for our country. That one?Richard_Nabavi said:
Damaged. But, wow, what a fantastically good government that one was compared with its two successors - and that's what matters.Leon said:
Unlike your hero David ‘Brexit’ Cameron? How’s his reputation, now?Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.1 -
Here's an idea, why don't you say what you think will happen, instead of criticising others for doing so, coupling your comments with your usual invidious drumbeat of doom?gealbhan said:
Okay. 🙂Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?
So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?0 -
I couldn't give less of a s**t about agriculture. As for the others investment is ongoing in cars, the drivers in the haulage industry seem to be very happy and investments in the UK are going great guns. So yeah, pretty happy with that.Daveyboy1961 said:
I wonder how much the fisher folk, the farmers, the car workers, the haulage industry and the investments industry agree with you..Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.Daveyboy1961 said:
successful trade deal?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?0 -
But the rabbit is right. It was also advice from the WHO, PHE and Chris Witty.Leon said:
Sorry, I trust Dom Cummings here, not ‘the white rabbit’TheWhiteRabbit said:
No, people died because closing the border was thought not to have an effect. It's right there in the SAGE minutes.Leon said:Fuck me
‘On border closures 👇
Before April: Official repeated advice was not to close borders. "Another groupthink thing said it was basically racist to close the borders." That was the official advice, the official advice was closing the borders would have no effect.’
50,000 were killed by Wokeness1 -
Perhaps you should apply? I am sure they would jump at the chance to have someone with your overwhelming wit, charm and intelligence on their team.malcolmg said:
They got their fancy name wrong , it should have been DUMBOTheWhiteRabbit said:
No, people died because closing the border was thought not to have an effect. It's right there in the SAGE minutes.Leon said:Fuck me
‘On border closures 👇
Before April: Official repeated advice was not to close borders. "Another groupthink thing said it was basically racist to close the borders." That was the official advice, the official advice was closing the borders would have no effect.’
50,000 were killed by Wokeness0 -
Dom Redux
Dom: "BoZo is completely unsuitable to be PM"
Committee: "Do you have any evidence for this wild assertion?"
Dom: "He hired me"3 -
If Priti Patel had stood up and announced - "We are closing the border. Anyone who arrives goes to a detention camp for 14 days"....Cookie said:
They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.
Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
1 -
That’s exactly right. It’s not so much that they think ‘closed borders are racist’. It’s that people who work for a *right wing* government are perpetually terrified of the accusation - ‘what you are doing is racist’Cookie said:
They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.
Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
1 -
that is very good!Theuniondivvie said:0 -
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Google the history of WHO’s advice on ‘keeping the borders open’. It comes from political correctness, ultimatelyTaz said:
But the rabbit is right. It was also advice from the WHO, PHE and Chris Witty.Leon said:
Sorry, I trust Dom Cummings here, not ‘the white rabbit’TheWhiteRabbit said:
No, people died because closing the border was thought not to have an effect. It's right there in the SAGE minutes.Leon said:Fuck me
‘On border closures 👇
Before April: Official repeated advice was not to close borders. "Another groupthink thing said it was basically racist to close the borders." That was the official advice, the official advice was closing the borders would have no effect.’
50,000 were killed by Wokeness1 -
Downing Street says PM has full confidence in his health secretary.
But No. 10 twice failed to deny Cummings' claim that Johnson considered sacking Hancock in April last year.
https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/13975394479949783130 -
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1397537090376802306
We can debate on here what we think about all this. But I know what the public will think. They'll think Dom Cummings is a self-serving lunatic. And they'll have a point.0 -
ARDERNCookie said:
They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.
Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
A
R
D
E
R
N2 -
It must be so comforting for you living in your blue-tinted bubble, ignoring things going wrong and highlighting things that should be happening as a Blue-win. Can I ask what you do for a living? just asking..Philip_Thompson said:
I couldn't give less of a s**t about agriculture. As for the others investment is ongoing in cars, the drivers in the haulage industry seem to be very happy and investments in the UK are going great guns. So yeah, pretty happy with that.Daveyboy1961 said:
I wonder how much the fisher folk, the farmers, the car workers, the haulage industry and the investments industry agree with you..Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.Daveyboy1961 said:
successful trade deal?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?0 -
I am sure all people in agriculture couldn't give a s**t about you either (and all other lazy arsed 24/7 keyboard warriors); much like most of us on here.Philip_Thompson said:
I couldn't give less of a s**t about agriculture. As for the others investment is ongoing in cars, the drivers in the haulage industry seem to be very happy and investments in the UK are going great guns. So yeah, pretty happy with that.Daveyboy1961 said:
I wonder how much the fisher folk, the farmers, the car workers, the haulage industry and the investments industry agree with you..Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.Daveyboy1961 said:
successful trade deal?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?3 -
Get a grip!NerysHughes said:
Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?malcolmg said:
In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.gealbhan said:
Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.IanB2 said:Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.
Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.1 -
Graun:Cookie said:
They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.
Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
"Trump twists coronavirus fears to push his own agenda....
President uses public health concerns to fuel his argument for travel bans
...... Trump, who has long fought to restrict travel from a number of countries, many with large Muslim populations, has also leaned into the idea of travel bans as a response to the coronavirus threat.
The administration has expanded its travel restrictions on Iran and issued “do not travel” warnings to areas in Italy and South Korea, in addition to temporarily denying entry to foreign nationals who have visited China in the 14 days prior to their arrival to the US.
But public health officials and experts have warned there are downsides to that approach. Limiting movement between the US and areas where many people have been infected can slow the spread of disease. But severe restrictions “can have the effect of increasing fear and stigma, with little public health benefit”, said the World Health Organization (WHO) director, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, during a briefing to the United Nations executive board this week. “We reiterate our call to all countries not to impose restrictions that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade.”"3 -
He’s probably right. But that’s a shame. A lot of what Cummings says is true AND importantFloater said:https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1397537090376802306
We can debate on here what we think about all this. But I know what the public will think. They'll think Dom Cummings is a self-serving lunatic. And they'll have a point.6 -
Not sure whether he has time to earn a living. You can come on here at any time of day and he is here, spouting far right drivel. Very sad. He needs to get out a bit more and learn a little more about life and real peopleDaveyboy1961 said:
It must be so comforting for you living in your blue-tinted bubble, ignoring things going wrong and highlighting things that should be happening as a Blue-win. Can I ask what you do for a living? just asking..Philip_Thompson said:
I couldn't give less of a s**t about agriculture. As for the others investment is ongoing in cars, the drivers in the haulage industry seem to be very happy and investments in the UK are going great guns. So yeah, pretty happy with that.Daveyboy1961 said:
I wonder how much the fisher folk, the farmers, the car workers, the haulage industry and the investments industry agree with you..Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.Daveyboy1961 said:
successful trade deal?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?0 -
Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones
4 -
Called it on Mini-Trump singling out the UK for more special treatment on covid....and people said noooo he will want the tourism bucks.0
-
Ok, sorry Roger. Second best. Israel did better.Roger said:
Get a grip!NerysHughes said:
Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?malcolmg said:
In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.gealbhan said:
Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.IanB2 said:Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.
Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.2 -
That's happening now anyway,Malmesbury said:
If Priti Patel had stood up and announced - "We are closing the border. Anyone who arrives goes to a detention camp for 14 days"....Cookie said:
They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.
Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.0 -
DoCu is pretty nasally himself.Leon said:Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones
0 -
If the government had spent less time race-baiting as part of its boring war on woke horseshit they could have done the right thing without people suspecting their motives.Leon said:Basically, Dom agrees with all our critiques of government covid policy. He’s our guy in number Ten. Or he was
And the reason they keep the borders open is ‘fear of being racist’. As we speculated
Head::desk
FWIW I am as woke as they come and I think the borders should have been closed, or at least an effective quarantine system put in place.0 -
I don't think I have any of those except the via then pooter.eek said:
channel 236 so well beyond the point I give up and select something from an on demand service.CarlottaVance said:Hi Carlotta,
We’re launching!
GB News is coming to your screens on Sunday 13th June. We’ll be kicking off with a special programme at 8pm, called "Welcome to GB News."
You can join us on Freeview and YouView channel 236, Freesat channel 216, Sky, Virgin Media and online. Become part of the GB News family by following us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.
Best wishes,
The GB News Team0 -
Not even close to that.Daveyboy1961 said:
That's happening now anyway,Malmesbury said:
If Priti Patel had stood up and announced - "We are closing the border. Anyone who arrives goes to a detention camp for 14 days"....Cookie said:
They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.
Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.0 -
This is that corbyn front group agenda, who have been demanding this.... remember they were screeching the other day that Boris privately had a quiet moment of reflection (and it wasn't a PR stunt, nobody actually knew, other than a member of the public caught him on camera).Leon said:Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones
1 -
Yes, that one. It's odd that so many people are incapable of distinguishing between what the government did, and the series of disastrous decisions taken (the biggest one against that government's advice) by a completely separate group who were nowhere near government, namely voters. It really shouldn't be hard to understand this distinction, but it appears to be well beyond the capability of many to do so.Richard_Tyndall said:
You mean the one that resulted in the event that you consider one of the greatest catastrophes in modern times for our country. That one?Richard_Nabavi said:
Damaged. But, wow, what a fantastically good government that one was compared with its two successors - and that's what matters.Leon said:
Unlike your hero David ‘Brexit’ Cameron? How’s his reputation, now?Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.0 -
Interestingly with none of the axes Cumming's has to grind Alan Duncan reserves his greatest savaging for Hancock.....(apart from Mrs May's two advisors)0
-
I hate to say I told you so but I said at the time we needing somebody to step in as an acting PM. I remember Michael Howard trying to argue that the cabinet was perfectly capable of acting collectively which makes you wonder why we need a prime minister in the first place. Someone needs to chair the damn thing. If the PM is incapacitated who is that to be?0
-
Voters made the decision they did because of the utter failure Cameron made in persuading them otherwise. He was so arrogant he didn't even consider the possibility he might lose.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, that one. It's odd that so many people are incapable of distinguishing between what the government did, and the series of disastrous decisions taken (against that government's advice) by a completely separate group who were nowhere near government, namely voters. It really shouldn't be hard to understand this distinction, but it appears to be well beyond the capability of many to do so.Richard_Tyndall said:
You mean the one that resulted in the event that you consider one of the greatest catastrophes in modern times for our country. That one?Richard_Nabavi said:
Damaged. But, wow, what a fantastically good government that one was compared with its two successors - and that's what matters.Leon said:
Unlike your hero David ‘Brexit’ Cameron? How’s his reputation, now?Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.3 -
I think we all know the only thing to which the herd has developed immunity.
https://twitter.com/drphiliplee1/status/1397494275286441984?s=21
0 -
Pretty bloody good!Roger said:
Get a grip!NerysHughes said:
Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?malcolmg said:
In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.gealbhan said:
Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.IanB2 said:Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.
Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.
2 -
EU citizens being held at the border, then imprisoned in the back of a van for 24hours without access to their medicine?Malmesbury said:
Not even close to that.Daveyboy1961 said:
That's happening now anyway,Malmesbury said:
If Priti Patel had stood up and announced - "We are closing the border. Anyone who arrives goes to a detention camp for 14 days"....Cookie said:
They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.
Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.1 -
I’m well aware of the ineptitude of the WHO in the pandemic but the govt were damned if they do damned if they don’t. They either hid behind the science if they followed it or ignored it if they didn’t. The advice on releasing people to care homes was Public Health England’s.Leon said:
Google the history of WHO’s advice on ‘keeping the borders open’. It comes from political correctness, ultimatelyTaz said:
But the rabbit is right. It was also advice from the WHO, PHE and Chris Witty.Leon said:
Sorry, I trust Dom Cummings here, not ‘the white rabbit’TheWhiteRabbit said:
No, people died because closing the border was thought not to have an effect. It's right there in the SAGE minutes.Leon said:Fuck me
‘On border closures 👇
Before April: Official repeated advice was not to close borders. "Another groupthink thing said it was basically racist to close the borders." That was the official advice, the official advice was closing the borders would have no effect.’
50,000 were killed by Wokeness0 -
The Covid Families group is run by a professional politically aligned campaigner.FrancisUrquhart said:
This is that corbyn front group agenda, who have been demanding this.... remember they were screeching the other day that Boris privately had a quiet moment of reflection (and it wasn't a PR stunt, nobody actually knew, other than a member of the public caught him on camera).Leon said:Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones
ZS is another version of RLB.1 -
Investment of £317 million into the Transpennine Route Upgrade has been approved - meaning punctuality, reliability and connectivity for passengers between York, Leeds and Manchester should improve.
https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/317m-transpennine-route-upgrade-gets-206807641 -
That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.0 -
Also, countries that need to do a third jab / do-overs cos they have been injecting duffers don't count.Sandpit said:
Pretty bloody good!Roger said:
Get a grip!NerysHughes said:
Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?malcolmg said:
In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.gealbhan said:
Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.IanB2 said:Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.
Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.
I notice cases in Chile are on the rise again.0 -
“The number of new doses administered yesterday is 574,134
England administered 484K compared to 423K last week (FD: 157K, SD: 327K)
This is the highest Tuesday (reported on Wednesday) ever. Previous high was 529K on 16th of March”
https://twitter.com/ganeshran/status/13975385742753300503 -
Sorry, you are definitely wrong this time Anabob. 🙂Anabobazina said:
Here's an idea, why don't you say what you think will happen, instead of criticising others for doing so, coupling your comments with your usual invidious drumbeat of doom?gealbhan said:
Okay. 🙂Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?
So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?
The claim was “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”
Because of the vaccination programme, and other ways we are now prepared, I don’t feel doomy about the third wave as much as you spin I do.
But are we anywhere yet that meets that claim above, in your opinion?
0 -
UK
1sts 186,147
2nds 387,987
Other notable targets
England passes 20 million second doses.
Biggest ever wednesday reported.
1 -
Nearly 5 hours now and totally fascinating
I actually think Cummings is providing a fair commentary on the complex nature of dealing with a once in a 100 year event and he obviously has an agenda, not least to take out Hancock, but also he has big questions on his own veracity1 -
Over 75% off British adults now have covid antibodies -
https://msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/more-than-three-quarters-of-adults-have-covid-antibodies/ar-AAKoQdC?ocid=uxbndlbing
Glorious news, and surely we are now on the way out of this. By the 21st of June this should be well over 80% if not a lot higher, plus some of the kids will have recovered/been exposed to covid too. A glorious day.4 -
So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!Sandpit said:
Pretty bloody good!Roger said:
Get a grip!NerysHughes said:
Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?malcolmg said:
In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.gealbhan said:
Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.IanB2 said:Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.
Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.
0 -
"William Clouston SDP
@WilliamClouston
Cummings is right about the inept border policy. Open borders have been a disaster."
https://twitter.com/WilliamClouston/status/13975257874111570021 -
Actually I don't think he was at all arrogant about it. He worked his butt off, and was the only major politician really making the case vigorously. It's a complex story, of course, not just one cause - but the bottom line is, the buck stops with the voters. They are the ones that made the decision, no one else. You can't blame the solicitor who advised you against a purchase if you instruct her to go ahead with the purchase.Richard_Tyndall said:
Voters made the decision they did because of the utter failure Cameron made in persuading them otherwise. He was so arrogant he didn't even consider the possibility he might lose.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, that one. It's odd that so many people are incapable of distinguishing between what the government did, and the series of disastrous decisions taken (against that government's advice) by a completely separate group who were nowhere near government, namely voters. It really shouldn't be hard to understand this distinction, but it appears to be well beyond the capability of many to do so.Richard_Tyndall said:
You mean the one that resulted in the event that you consider one of the greatest catastrophes in modern times for our country. That one?Richard_Nabavi said:
Damaged. But, wow, what a fantastically good government that one was compared with its two successors - and that's what matters.Leon said:
Unlike your hero David ‘Brexit’ Cameron? How’s his reputation, now?Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
It's not like (say) Boris screwing up the Covid policy in the lead-up to Christmas, which was unambiguously a failure of his government and no-one but his government. That's a big, big difference.0 -
It is the single biggest government failure. Perhaps in modern British history. Keeping the borders open surely killed tens of thousands and took 5% off GDPAndy_JS said:
That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
We need to know exactly how much ‘fear of racism’ contributed to this and then the whole culture that perpetuates this toxic drivel needs to be extirpated2 -
Who is this?FrancisUrquhart said:Called it on Mini-Trump singling out the UK for more special treatment on covid....and people said noooo he will want the tourism bucks.
0 -
Australia has long had a hard core immigration policy - they actually try and stop all illegal immigration.Andy_JS said:
That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
Because of the distances etc. both NZ and Australia don't need travel for the short/medium term health of their economies.
It is an article of faith that the UK can't now survive without mass immigration.1 -
Have you worked out why Woke is to blame for the shit weather yet?Leon said:
It is the single biggest government failure. Perhaps in modern British history. Keeping the borders open surely killed tens of thousands and took 5% off GDPAndy_JS said:
That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
We need to know exactly how much ‘fear of racism’ contributed to this and then the whole culture that perpetuates this toxic drivel needs to be extirpated5 -
Yes, I think it's a fair prediction from Philip. It looks like a straight race between the UK and US I would say, and our lower rate of antivax should mean we get there first. The caveat to that is that the US has already dropped its mask mandate and life is pretty much open there, whereas we have a few more weeks to wait.gealbhan said:
Sorry, you are definitely wrong this time Anabob. 🙂Anabobazina said:
Here's an idea, why don't you say what you think will happen, instead of criticising others for doing so, coupling your comments with your usual invidious drumbeat of doom?gealbhan said:
Okay. 🙂Philip_Thompson said:
Yes, that's why I said it.gealbhan said:
“ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”Philip_Thompson said:
Successful furlough scheme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.Andy_JS said:Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.
But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
Successful Brexit deal.
Successful trade deal.
First country in the world to get a vaccine.
First major country in the world to end the pandemic.
The 'disasters' just keep piling up!
I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)
Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
You think so?
So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?
The claim was “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”
Because of the vaccination programme, and other ways we are now prepared, I don’t feel doomy about the third wave as much as you spin I do.
But are we anywhere yet that meets that claim above, in your opinion?
I take the earlier point about Israel – but I wouldn't class it as a major country. Population 8-9 million and a GDP outside the top 30.0 -
For a taster, the media moan about their lack of foreign holdiays at every press conference....Leon said:
It is the single biggest government failure. Perhaps in modern British history. Keeping the borders open surely killed tens of thousands and took 5% off GDPAndy_JS said:
That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
We need to know exactly how much ‘fear of racism’ contributed to this and then the whole culture that perpetuates this toxic drivel needs to be extirpated
Just like Cummings said we should have had a South Korean style tracing system, we should have closed the borders...but the backlash would have been immense...i mean the media lost their shit over the thought of deeping to get into the pub, where as in Israel people just said so where do I download this app from....1 -
No1 ?Roger said:
So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!Sandpit said:
Pretty bloody good!Roger said:
Get a grip!NerysHughes said:
Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?malcolmg said:
In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.gealbhan said:
Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.IanB2 said:Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.
Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker2 -
Apparently I was wrong to say that our vaccine progrmme was goodPulpstar said:UK
1sts 186,147
2nds 387,987
Other notable targets
England passes 20 million second doses.
Biggest ever wednesday reported.2 -
Roger showing again that private education was wasted on him....more bullshit claims than Prof Peston.4
-
26th for excess deaths per capita as of today:Roger said:
So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!Sandpit said:
Pretty bloody good!Roger said:
Get a grip!NerysHughes said:
Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?malcolmg said:
In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.gealbhan said:
Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.IanB2 said:Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.
Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker
Apart from that, good point!2 -
The ONS data suggest 75.9 per cent of adults in England have antibodies as of the week beginning May 3.turbotubbs said:Over 75% off British adults now have covid antibodies -
https://msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/more-than-three-quarters-of-adults-have-covid-antibodies/ar-AAKoQdC?ocid=uxbndlbing
Glorious news, and surely we are now on the way out of this. By the 21st of June this should be well over 80% if not a lot higher, plus some of the kids will have recovered/been exposed to covid too. A glorious day.
25th April, ~ 64% of adults had a vaccination - so if you work on antibodies 8 days after 1st jab then it'll be infection giving an additional 12% or so.
Obviously as vaccination levels go up the number of people who have antibodies via both vaccination AND prior infection will head north. So it'll be more than 12% of adults infected.0 -
Cummings is a fascinating character. No-one is more fascinated by Cummings than the man himself.
Concerning Hancock, you have to remember the cabinet was specifically chosen for their incompetence. Possibly another of Cummings cunning plans. Hancock is one of the less incompetent ones. A team of capable players could have supported him. Nevertheless, if you were running a proper organisation rather than merely the government of a major country you would get rid of the lot of them, including Johnson and with the possible exception of Sunak.
I suspect Cummings may cause some damage. Not for anything particular he says, but for reinforcing the impression of a government in total dysfunction. I think it's hard to say, Cummings is a loose cannon, but the rest of it is a well run machine.3 -
I’m always very wary of groups like this for this very reason.MattW said:
The Covid Families group is run by a professional politically aligned campaigner.FrancisUrquhart said:
This is that corbyn front group agenda, who have been demanding this.... remember they were screeching the other day that Boris privately had a quiet moment of reflection (and it wasn't a PR stunt, nobody actually knew, other than a member of the public caught him on camera).Leon said:Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones
ZS is another version of RLB.0 -
We are currently 26th on that list of excess deaths per 100k but we are falling fairly quickly given that our deaths have for statistical purposes pretty much stopped.Philip_Thompson said:
No1 ?Roger said:
So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!Sandpit said:
Pretty bloody good!Roger said:
Get a grip!NerysHughes said:
Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?malcolmg said:
In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.gealbhan said:
Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.IanB2 said:Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.
Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker3 -
That's for first week of May - it's almost certainly over 80% right now.turbotubbs said:Over 75% off British adults now have covid antibodies -
https://msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/more-than-three-quarters-of-adults-have-covid-antibodies/ar-AAKoQdC?ocid=uxbndlbing
Glorious news, and surely we are now on the way out of this. By the 21st of June this should be well over 80% if not a lot higher, plus some of the kids will have recovered/been exposed to covid too. A glorious day.1 -
I notice chief Corbynista Matt Zarb-Cousin turning up all over the media recently, from football index to stories about forex scams, up he pops, introduced as some independent gambling support group person.MattW said:
The Covid Families group is run by a professional politically aligned campaigner.FrancisUrquhart said:
This is that corbyn front group agenda, who have been demanding this.... remember they were screeching the other day that Boris privately had a quiet moment of reflection (and it wasn't a PR stunt, nobody actually knew, other than a member of the public caught him on camera).Leon said:Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones
ZS is another version of RLB.0 -
On no metric whatsoever are we No 1 for deaths (no apostrophe)Roger said:
So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!Sandpit said:
Pretty bloody good!Roger said:
Get a grip!NerysHughes said:
Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?malcolmg said:
In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.gealbhan said:
Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.IanB2 said:Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.
Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.0 -
Do you honestly still believe the UK is number one for deaths?Roger said:
So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!Sandpit said:
Pretty bloody good!Roger said:
Get a grip!NerysHughes said:
Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?malcolmg said:
In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.gealbhan said:
Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.IanB2 said:Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.
Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.2 -
I hadn't noticed that Johnson had any "fear of racism" - quite the contrary.Leon said:
It is the single biggest government failure. Perhaps in modern British history. Keeping the borders open surely killed tens of thousands and took 5% off GDPAndy_JS said:
That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
We need to know exactly how much ‘fear of racism’ contributed to this and then the whole culture that perpetuates this toxic drivel needs to be extirpated
My reading is that he wanted to appear super-macho, afraid of nothing, being like Churchill and standing up aganst the threat, with a smile on his lips. All a matter of image - and totally heedless about the consequences for others. No need to drag "wokeness" into the narrative.2 -
So .. was it a damp squib..?1
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Definitely notsquareroot2 said:So .. was it a damp squib..?
1 -
He’s a reformed problem gambler turned useful idiot for the anti gambling lobby. He’s treated as an expert witness when he’s really either a lobbyist or aiding the lobbyists for more restrictions on gamblingFrancisUrquhart said:
I notice chief Corbynista Matt Zarb-Cousin turning up all over the media recently, from football index to stories about forex scams, up he pops, introduced as some independent gambling support group person.MattW said:
The Covid Families group is run by a professional politically aligned campaigner.FrancisUrquhart said:
This is that corbyn front group agenda, who have been demanding this.... remember they were screeching the other day that Boris privately had a quiet moment of reflection (and it wasn't a PR stunt, nobody actually knew, other than a member of the public caught him on camera).Leon said:Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones
ZS is another version of RLB.0 -
I have been as critical of the border policy as anyone but the premise that it cost lives is flawed. The extent of infection and therefore death in the UK without vaccines was determined by a number of factors including the density of our population, the age of our population, the "dry tinder" of nursing homes where we dump our elders, the proportion of the community living in multigenerational families etc. In short, it was a given reflecting the make up of our society.Leon said:
It is the single biggest government failure. Perhaps in modern British history. Keeping the borders open surely killed tens of thousands and took 5% off GDPAndy_JS said:
That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.Leon said:We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
This is pretty explosive stuff now
The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
We need to know exactly how much ‘fear of racism’ contributed to this and then the whole culture that perpetuates this toxic drivel needs to be extirpated
The argument about borders was that it accelerated the rate at which this wildfire burned through us. It clearly and undoubtedly did and it facilitated more infectious variants as well. But it didn't change the given, only vaccines have done that.
I think that the economic point is better. If we had been more rigorous about our borders we could have been less rigorous about our internal lockdowns.1 -
Also, flights from India should have been stopped as soon as the Indian variant was identified. They were deliberately allowed to continue for about 5 days, presumably in order not to upset people who wanted to get back to the UK. And that's why a lot of people ended up in hospital in Bolton with the Indian variant.4
This discussion has been closed.