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Two highlights from this morning – HealthSec Hancock the main target – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    For those more interested in a fact based approach to how the government made decisions, I would strongly recommend this thread:

    https://twitter.com/surplustakes/status/1397294080057610245

    It's also the answer to Leon's question. The flu-based models used by SAGE assume significant community transmission both at the outset (and, since they do not make use of lockdown, thereafter) in which particular measures to combat the spread are seen having a comparatively trivial effect. They also assume poor adherence compared to what we actually got.

    It is mad now to think that even social distancing was considered to have only a small/not worth it effect.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169
    edited May 2021

    ping said:

    It shouldn’t be so, but I think the most damaging “revelation” for Boris is about Carrie and the dog.

    The tabloids will lap it up

    What was the revelation?
    Carrie more concerned about a bad press story regarding Dilyn than the Covid situation.
    It's entirely believable.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9280195/Somebody-shoot-f-ing-dog-Boris-Johnson-growled-Dilyn-gnawed-antiques-Chequers.html
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,611
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Unlike your hero David ‘Brexit’ Cameron? How’s his reputation, now?
    Damaged. But, wow, what a fantastically good government that one was compared with its two successors - and that's what matters.
    The key to the quality of that government was Osborne. He was the one who kept it together through the quad and focused. Driving him out of politics is probably not amongst most peoples' top charge list against Mrs May (in fairness the list is long and complicated) but it was an enormous disservice to the United Kingdom.
    He wouldn't have been able to vote for most of Boris Johnson's agenda.

    If it wasn't Mrs May it would have been Boris Johnson.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    successful trade deal?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    All he needs to do now is produce the proof that ManCock was lying / was told by the Cabinet Secretary he should have been fired etc
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    I'm not convinced any of this will damage Johnson's popularity, odd as that may sound.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,374
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    Oh do shut up. Post about the weather and UFOs instead - you make more sense.
    Cummings just said this. Not me
    Did Cummings say: 50,000 were killed by Wokeness? No, it was Leon I believe.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    Basically, Dom agrees with all our critiques of government covid policy. He’s our guy in number Ten. Or he was

    And the reason they keep the borders open is ‘fear of being racist’. As we speculated

    Head::desk
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309

    Leon said:

    Fuck me

    ‘On border closures 👇
    Before April: Official repeated advice was not to close borders. "Another groupthink thing said it was basically racist to close the borders." That was the official advice, the official advice was closing the borders would have no effect.’

    50,000 were killed by Wokeness

    No, people died because closing the border was thought not to have an effect. It's right there in the SAGE minutes.
    They got their fancy name wrong , it should have been DUMBO
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    All he needs to do now is produce the proof that ManCock was lying / was told by the Cabinet Secretary he should have been fired etc

    He doesn’t have it. That’s why Cummings is disgraceful really. He’s encouraging others to go looking for it in throw spaghetti to wall hunt.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    Okay. 🙂

    So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?
    No.

    If wave 3 is bad for the UK I will say "I called that wrong". I've been wrong before and I have the self-respect to admit when I was wrong.

    But it won't be.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,508
    IanB2 said:

    CNN:

    Cummings claimed that the Prime Minister believed the coronavirus to be little more than a scare story and would say things like he wanted to have England's chief medical officer "inject him with Covid" live on air to prove it was nothing to worry about.

    Central to Cummings's criticism of Johnson and his government is a lack of preparedness, leading to lockdowns being delayed and policies like herd immunity being pursued.

    Cummings listed numerous reasons for this delay, ranging from a belief that the British public would not go along with "Wuhan-style" measures, to external distractions. These ranged from then-US President Donald Trump wanting the UK to join a bombing mission in the Middle East, to stories about Johnson's fiance, Carrie Symonds, being upset about stories in newspapers about the couple's dog. But ultimately, his main accusation was that the government was simply unprepared and the plan in place at this time was based on falsehoods.

    Again this all seems obvious and true.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    From the department of "no shit Sherlock" -

    "Biden global tax proposal faces setback after Ireland objects"

    https://news.yahoo.com/biden-global-tax-proposal-faces-223722614.html
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    Basically, Dom agrees with all our critiques of government covid policy. He’s our guy in number Ten. Or he was

    And the reason they keep the borders open is ‘fear of being racist’. As we speculated

    Head::desk

    No he's Keir Starmer's guy - "Captain Hindsight" is easy to say this now, but no evidence he was saying it at the time.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    Okay. 🙂

    So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?
    Who are you expecting to die in Wave 3? I think in 2 months time we will have most people vaccinated (the refusers will not be that many, and we will probably start on the under 16s soon). Most serious virologists don't expect complete vaccine escape, and even if it did happen, it would be gradual, with much time to adjust to diminishing efficacy but using boosters tailored to the newer strains.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,300
    algarkirk said:

    Thoughts: Has DC rather done a bit of this? : "Lots of people are to blame, including me. I am going into forensic and savage detail about some of the others blame but much less detail about how I personally am to blame."

    Getting this right is a test of whether his evidence is tainted by personalities etc.

    Secondly, since the events of last year DC is not a trusted witness for well known reasons. In order to restore this it would have to be obvious that he is being as critical about himself, and in detail, as he is about others.

    I am not convinced he is passing the tests.

    Thirdly, he has given a number of hostages by way of evidence which another person may be able directly to contradict. This is not an especially safe procedure when it may be a bundle of rats in a sack involved.

    Tentative conclusion: Boris and friends safe for now.

    Much as I would like the lid to have been permanently lifted on this incompetent populist government of lightweights, I fear you may be right. Boris Johnson is (for reason unfathomable to me) quite popular. Being savaged by someone about as popular as a dose of the clap may well cause sympathy for him from the somewhat gullible public at large.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    He’s quite plausible about Barnard Castle. I tend to believe him
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    I still love Jeremy Hunt's eyes. A sufficient hint of unhinged with every other look.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    successful trade deal?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    I wonder how much the fisher folk, the farmers, the car workers, the haulage industry and the investments industry agree with you..
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.

    You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
    What about Jacinda Ardern?

    I see the Cambridge-educated lawyers on here are getting no better at spelling the names of world leaders.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    DougSeal said:

    From the department of "no shit Sherlock" -

    "Biden global tax proposal faces setback after Ireland objects"

    https://news.yahoo.com/biden-global-tax-proposal-faces-223722614.html

    Biden’s going to get nowhere with this, while his own country’s corporate tax regime has so many loopholes and special deals with large companies.

    Sort yourself out first, then the rest of the world might listen.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,611

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.

    You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
    What about Jacinda Ardern?

    I see the Cambridge-educated lawyers on here are getting no better at spelling the names of world leaders.
    Auto-correct.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    Fpt
    DavidL said:


    I think the liar in that case Malcolm made the mistake of adhibiting his name. It was an Alex Salmond. Whatever happened to him?

    Became the best PM that the UK never had?
    ©someidiot
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,771
    edited May 2021

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.

    You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
    They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.
    Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.

    Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
    The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    Okay. 🙂

    So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?
    No.

    If wave 3 is bad for the UK I will say "I called that wrong". I've been wrong before and I have the self-respect to admit when I was wrong.

    But it won't be.
    At 70%+ vaccination (and climbing) a third wave anything like the second wave is impossible so you are pretty safe.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,508

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Unlike your hero David ‘Brexit’ Cameron? How’s his reputation, now?
    Damaged. But, wow, what a fantastically good government that one was compared with its two successors - and that's what matters.
    You mean the one that resulted in the event that you consider one of the greatest catastrophes in modern times for our country. That one?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    Okay. 🙂

    So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?
    Here's an idea, why don't you say what you think will happen, instead of criticising others for doing so, coupling your comments with your usual invidious drumbeat of doom?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    successful trade deal?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    I wonder how much the fisher folk, the farmers, the car workers, the haulage industry and the investments industry agree with you..
    I couldn't give less of a s**t about agriculture. As for the others investment is ongoing in cars, the drivers in the haulage industry seem to be very happy and investments in the UK are going great guns. So yeah, pretty happy with that.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me

    ‘On border closures 👇
    Before April: Official repeated advice was not to close borders. "Another groupthink thing said it was basically racist to close the borders." That was the official advice, the official advice was closing the borders would have no effect.’

    50,000 were killed by Wokeness

    No, people died because closing the border was thought not to have an effect. It's right there in the SAGE minutes.
    Sorry, I trust Dom Cummings here, not ‘the white rabbit’
    But the rabbit is right. It was also advice from the WHO, PHE and Chris Witty.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,300
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me

    ‘On border closures 👇
    Before April: Official repeated advice was not to close borders. "Another groupthink thing said it was basically racist to close the borders." That was the official advice, the official advice was closing the borders would have no effect.’

    50,000 were killed by Wokeness

    No, people died because closing the border was thought not to have an effect. It's right there in the SAGE minutes.
    They got their fancy name wrong , it should have been DUMBO
    Perhaps you should apply? I am sure they would jump at the chance to have someone with your overwhelming wit, charm and intelligence on their team.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,978
    Dom Redux

    Dom: "BoZo is completely unsuitable to be PM"

    Committee: "Do you have any evidence for this wild assertion?"

    Dom: "He hired me"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,205
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.

    You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
    They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.
    Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.

    Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
    The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
    If Priti Patel had stood up and announced - "We are closing the border. Anyone who arrives goes to a detention camp for 14 days"....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.

    You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
    They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.
    Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.

    Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
    The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
    That’s exactly right. It’s not so much that they think ‘closed borders are racist’. It’s that people who work for a *right wing* government are perpetually terrified of the accusation - ‘what you are doing is racist’
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Leon said:

    ping said:

    It shouldn’t be so, but I think the most damaging “revelation” for Boris is about Carrie and the dog.

    The tabs will lap it up

    Yes, that was bad. There’s a lot of bad in here

    Any updates on tomorrow's blizzards Leon? I'm looking forward to going tobogganing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me

    ‘On border closures 👇
    Before April: Official repeated advice was not to close borders. "Another groupthink thing said it was basically racist to close the borders." That was the official advice, the official advice was closing the borders would have no effect.’

    50,000 were killed by Wokeness

    No, people died because closing the border was thought not to have an effect. It's right there in the SAGE minutes.
    Sorry, I trust Dom Cummings here, not ‘the white rabbit’
    But the rabbit is right. It was also advice from the WHO, PHE and Chris Witty.
    Google the history of WHO’s advice on ‘keeping the borders open’. It comes from political correctness, ultimately
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,978
    Downing Street says PM has full confidence in his health secretary.

    But No. 10 twice failed to deny Cummings' claim that Johnson considered sacking Hancock in April last year.

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1397539447994978313
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1397537090376802306

    We can debate on here what we think about all this. But I know what the public will think. They'll think Dom Cummings is a self-serving lunatic. And they'll have a point.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.

    You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
    They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.
    Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.

    Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
    The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
    ARDERN

    A


    R


    D


    E


    R


    N
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    successful trade deal?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    I wonder how much the fisher folk, the farmers, the car workers, the haulage industry and the investments industry agree with you..
    I couldn't give less of a s**t about agriculture. As for the others investment is ongoing in cars, the drivers in the haulage industry seem to be very happy and investments in the UK are going great guns. So yeah, pretty happy with that.
    It must be so comforting for you living in your blue-tinted bubble, ignoring things going wrong and highlighting things that should be happening as a Blue-win. Can I ask what you do for a living? just asking..
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,300

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    successful trade deal?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    I wonder how much the fisher folk, the farmers, the car workers, the haulage industry and the investments industry agree with you..
    I couldn't give less of a s**t about agriculture. As for the others investment is ongoing in cars, the drivers in the haulage industry seem to be very happy and investments in the UK are going great guns. So yeah, pretty happy with that.
    I am sure all people in agriculture couldn't give a s**t about you either (and all other lazy arsed 24/7 keyboard warriors); much like most of us on here.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,885

    malcolmg said:

    gealbhan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.

    Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.

    Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.
    In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.
    Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?
    Get a grip!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.

    You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
    They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.
    Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.

    Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
    The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
    Graun:

    "Trump twists coronavirus fears to push his own agenda....
    President uses public health concerns to fuel his argument for travel bans

    ...... Trump, who has long fought to restrict travel from a number of countries, many with large Muslim populations, has also leaned into the idea of travel bans as a response to the coronavirus threat.

    The administration has expanded its travel restrictions on Iran and issued “do not travel” warnings to areas in Italy and South Korea, in addition to temporarily denying entry to foreign nationals who have visited China in the 14 days prior to their arrival to the US.

    But public health officials and experts have warned there are downsides to that approach. Limiting movement between the US and areas where many people have been infected can slow the spread of disease. But severe restrictions “can have the effect of increasing fear and stigma, with little public health benefit”, said the World Health Organization (WHO) director, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, during a briefing to the United Nations executive board this week. “We reiterate our call to all countries not to impose restrictions that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade.”"
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,300

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    successful trade deal?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    I wonder how much the fisher folk, the farmers, the car workers, the haulage industry and the investments industry agree with you..
    I couldn't give less of a s**t about agriculture. As for the others investment is ongoing in cars, the drivers in the haulage industry seem to be very happy and investments in the UK are going great guns. So yeah, pretty happy with that.
    It must be so comforting for you living in your blue-tinted bubble, ignoring things going wrong and highlighting things that should be happening as a Blue-win. Can I ask what you do for a living? just asking..
    Not sure whether he has time to earn a living. You can come on here at any time of day and he is here, spouting far right drivel. Very sad. He needs to get out a bit more and learn a little more about life and real people
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,962
    edited May 2021
    Called it on Mini-Trump singling out the UK for more special treatment on covid....and people said noooo he will want the tourism bucks.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,771
    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    gealbhan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.

    Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.

    Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.
    In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.
    Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?
    Get a grip!
    Ok, sorry Roger. Second best. Israel did better.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.

    You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
    They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.
    Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.

    Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
    The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
    If Priti Patel had stood up and announced - "We are closing the border. Anyone who arrives goes to a detention camp for 14 days"....
    That's happening now anyway,
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Leon said:

    Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones

    DoCu is pretty nasally himself.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767
    Leon said:

    Basically, Dom agrees with all our critiques of government covid policy. He’s our guy in number Ten. Or he was

    And the reason they keep the borders open is ‘fear of being racist’. As we speculated

    Head::desk

    If the government had spent less time race-baiting as part of its boring war on woke horseshit they could have done the right thing without people suspecting their motives.
    FWIW I am as woke as they come and I think the borders should have been closed, or at least an effective quarantine system put in place.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,118
    eek said:

    Hi Carlotta,

    We’re launching!

    GB News is coming to your screens on Sunday 13th June. We’ll be kicking off with a special programme at 8pm, called "Welcome to GB News."

    You can join us on Freeview and YouView channel 236, Freesat channel 216, Sky, Virgin Media and online. Become part of the GB News family by following us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

    Best wishes,

    The GB News Team

    channel 236 so well beyond the point I give up and select something from an on demand service.
    I don't think I have any of those except the via then pooter.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,205

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.

    You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
    They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.
    Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.

    Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
    The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
    If Priti Patel had stood up and announced - "We are closing the border. Anyone who arrives goes to a detention camp for 14 days"....
    That's happening now anyway,
    Not even close to that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,962
    edited May 2021
    Leon said:

    Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones

    This is that corbyn front group agenda, who have been demanding this.... remember they were screeching the other day that Boris privately had a quiet moment of reflection (and it wasn't a PR stunt, nobody actually knew, other than a member of the public caught him on camera).
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited May 2021

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Unlike your hero David ‘Brexit’ Cameron? How’s his reputation, now?
    Damaged. But, wow, what a fantastically good government that one was compared with its two successors - and that's what matters.
    You mean the one that resulted in the event that you consider one of the greatest catastrophes in modern times for our country. That one?
    Yes, that one. It's odd that so many people are incapable of distinguishing between what the government did, and the series of disastrous decisions taken (the biggest one against that government's advice) by a completely separate group who were nowhere near government, namely voters. It really shouldn't be hard to understand this distinction, but it appears to be well beyond the capability of many to do so.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,885
    Interestingly with none of the axes Cumming's has to grind Alan Duncan reserves his greatest savaging for Hancock.....(apart from Mrs May's two advisors)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    I hate to say I told you so but I said at the time we needing somebody to step in as an acting PM. I remember Michael Howard trying to argue that the cabinet was perfectly capable of acting collectively which makes you wonder why we need a prime minister in the first place. Someone needs to chair the damn thing. If the PM is incapacitated who is that to be?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    I think we all know the only thing to which the herd has developed immunity.

    https://twitter.com/drphiliplee1/status/1397494275286441984?s=21
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,508

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Unlike your hero David ‘Brexit’ Cameron? How’s his reputation, now?
    Damaged. But, wow, what a fantastically good government that one was compared with its two successors - and that's what matters.
    You mean the one that resulted in the event that you consider one of the greatest catastrophes in modern times for our country. That one?
    Yes, that one. It's odd that so many people are incapable of distinguishing between what the government did, and the series of disastrous decisions taken (against that government's advice) by a completely separate group who were nowhere near government, namely voters. It really shouldn't be hard to understand this distinction, but it appears to be well beyond the capability of many to do so.
    Voters made the decision they did because of the utter failure Cameron made in persuading them otherwise. He was so arrogant he didn't even consider the possibility he might lose.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    gealbhan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.

    Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.

    Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.
    In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.
    Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?
    Get a grip!
    Pretty bloody good!

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    There's some pretty right wing governments around the world that didn't close the borders.

    You know who did close the border? The very woke Jacinda Arden.
    They could have closed borders, but it would have been a hell of a fight. Because the cry 'racist' would have gone up. As happened when Donald Trump tried to limit people coming in from China. They just didn't have the political capital to expend in that fight.
    Whereas Jacinda Adern had plenty of political capital. And no-one was going to accuse her of being racist.

    Thing is, the cry of racist - while it would have come - wouldn't even have been universal from the superwoke. One of the wokest people I know was clamouring to close the borders.
    The BBC would have hated it though, as would the Guardian. And if the BBC and Guardian hate it, so does the civil service. Governments can do things which the BBC and Guardian hate, but it's always a fight.
    If Priti Patel had stood up and announced - "We are closing the border. Anyone who arrives goes to a detention camp for 14 days"....
    That's happening now anyway,
    Not even close to that.
    EU citizens being held at the border, then imprisoned in the back of a van for 24hours without access to their medicine?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me

    ‘On border closures 👇
    Before April: Official repeated advice was not to close borders. "Another groupthink thing said it was basically racist to close the borders." That was the official advice, the official advice was closing the borders would have no effect.’

    50,000 were killed by Wokeness

    No, people died because closing the border was thought not to have an effect. It's right there in the SAGE minutes.
    Sorry, I trust Dom Cummings here, not ‘the white rabbit’
    But the rabbit is right. It was also advice from the WHO, PHE and Chris Witty.
    Google the history of WHO’s advice on ‘keeping the borders open’. It comes from political correctness, ultimately
    I’m well aware of the ineptitude of the WHO in the pandemic but the govt were damned if they do damned if they don’t. They either hid behind the science if they followed it or ignored it if they didn’t. The advice on releasing people to care homes was Public Health England’s.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,118

    Leon said:

    Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones

    This is that corbyn front group agenda, who have been demanding this.... remember they were screeching the other day that Boris privately had a quiet moment of reflection (and it wasn't a PR stunt, nobody actually knew, other than a member of the public caught him on camera).
    The Covid Families group is run by a professional politically aligned campaigner.

    ZS is another version of RLB.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Investment of £317 million into the Transpennine Route Upgrade has been approved - meaning punctuality, reliability and connectivity for passengers between York, Leeds and Manchester should improve.

    https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/317m-transpennine-route-upgrade-gets-20680764
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.

    The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,962
    edited May 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    gealbhan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.

    Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.

    Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.
    In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.
    Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?
    Get a grip!
    Pretty bloody good!

    Also, countries that need to do a third jab / do-overs cos they have been injecting duffers don't count.

    I notice cases in Chile are on the rise again.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,588
    “The number of new doses administered yesterday is 574,134

    England administered 484K compared to 423K last week (FD: 157K, SD: 327K)

    This is the highest Tuesday (reported on Wednesday) ever. Previous high was 529K on 16th of March”


    https://twitter.com/ganeshran/status/1397538574275330050
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    Okay. 🙂

    So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?
    Here's an idea, why don't you say what you think will happen, instead of criticising others for doing so, coupling your comments with your usual invidious drumbeat of doom?
    Sorry, you are definitely wrong this time Anabob. 🙂

    The claim was “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    Because of the vaccination programme, and other ways we are now prepared, I don’t feel doomy about the third wave as much as you spin I do.

    But are we anywhere yet that meets that claim above, in your opinion?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169
    edited May 2021
    UK
    1sts 186,147
    2nds 387,987

    Other notable targets

    England passes 20 million second doses.

    Biggest ever wednesday reported.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,012
    Nearly 5 hours now and totally fascinating

    I actually think Cummings is providing a fair commentary on the complex nature of dealing with a once in a 100 year event and he obviously has an agenda, not least to take out Hancock, but also he has big questions on his own veracity
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    Scott_xP said:

    Dom Redux

    Dom: "BoZo is completely unsuitable to be PM"

    Committee: "Do you have any evidence for this wild assertion?"

    Dom: "He hired me"

    Genuine LOL.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Over 75% off British adults now have covid antibodies -
    https://msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/more-than-three-quarters-of-adults-have-covid-antibodies/ar-AAKoQdC?ocid=uxbndlbing
    Glorious news, and surely we are now on the way out of this. By the 21st of June this should be well over 80% if not a lot higher, plus some of the kids will have recovered/been exposed to covid too. A glorious day.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,885
    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    gealbhan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.

    Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.

    Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.
    In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.
    Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?
    Get a grip!
    Pretty bloody good!

    So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    "William Clouston SDP
    @WilliamClouston

    Cummings is right about the inept border policy. Open borders have been a disaster."

    https://twitter.com/WilliamClouston/status/1397525787411157002
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited May 2021

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Unlike your hero David ‘Brexit’ Cameron? How’s his reputation, now?
    Damaged. But, wow, what a fantastically good government that one was compared with its two successors - and that's what matters.
    You mean the one that resulted in the event that you consider one of the greatest catastrophes in modern times for our country. That one?
    Yes, that one. It's odd that so many people are incapable of distinguishing between what the government did, and the series of disastrous decisions taken (against that government's advice) by a completely separate group who were nowhere near government, namely voters. It really shouldn't be hard to understand this distinction, but it appears to be well beyond the capability of many to do so.
    Voters made the decision they did because of the utter failure Cameron made in persuading them otherwise. He was so arrogant he didn't even consider the possibility he might lose.
    Actually I don't think he was at all arrogant about it. He worked his butt off, and was the only major politician really making the case vigorously. It's a complex story, of course, not just one cause - but the bottom line is, the buck stops with the voters. They are the ones that made the decision, no one else. You can't blame the solicitor who advised you against a purchase if you instruct her to go ahead with the purchase.

    It's not like (say) Boris screwing up the Covid policy in the lead-up to Christmas, which was unambiguously a failure of his government and no-one but his government. That's a big, big difference.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.

    The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
    It is the single biggest government failure. Perhaps in modern British history. Keeping the borders open surely killed tens of thousands and took 5% off GDP

    We need to know exactly how much ‘fear of racism’ contributed to this and then the whole culture that perpetuates this toxic drivel needs to be extirpated
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    Called it on Mini-Trump singling out the UK for more special treatment on covid....and people said noooo he will want the tourism bucks.

    Who is this?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,205
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.

    The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
    Australia has long had a hard core immigration policy - they actually try and stop all illegal immigration.

    Because of the distances etc. both NZ and Australia don't need travel for the short/medium term health of their economies.

    It is an article of faith that the UK can't now survive without mass immigration.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson must be wondering why on earth he employed Cummings in the first place.

    Well he was warned by multiple people, including lots of Tory MPs.

    But, in this case, the biggest mistake was promoting Johnson, who has as predicted been a disaster.
    Successful furlough scheme.
    Successful Brexit deal.
    Successful trade deal.

    First country in the world to get a vaccine.
    First major country in the world to end the pandemic.

    The 'disasters' just keep piling up!

    I don't think Hancock will be too worried about Cummings claims - the PM clearly stood by him earlier on and now Hancock will just keep shouting about the success of the vaccines and get vaccinated (while jogging in an England Cricket shirt, good man!)

    Who's the PM and public going to back? The man who became a butt of jokes about Specsavers at Barnard Castle (even though I think it was defensible, I'm in a minority there), or the Health Secretary who has for months now been so associated with the vaccines?
    “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    You think so?
    Yes, that's why I said it.
    Okay. 🙂

    So if wave 3 is bad one for UK, will you leave PB for good. Are you THAT confident?
    Here's an idea, why don't you say what you think will happen, instead of criticising others for doing so, coupling your comments with your usual invidious drumbeat of doom?
    Sorry, you are definitely wrong this time Anabob. 🙂

    The claim was “ First major country in the world to end the pandemic.”

    Because of the vaccination programme, and other ways we are now prepared, I don’t feel doomy about the third wave as much as you spin I do.

    But are we anywhere yet that meets that claim above, in your opinion?
    Yes, I think it's a fair prediction from Philip. It looks like a straight race between the UK and US I would say, and our lower rate of antivax should mean we get there first. The caveat to that is that the US has already dropped its mask mandate and life is pretty much open there, whereas we have a few more weeks to wait.

    I take the earlier point about Israel – but I wouldn't class it as a major country. Population 8-9 million and a GDP outside the top 30.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,962
    edited May 2021
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.

    The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
    It is the single biggest government failure. Perhaps in modern British history. Keeping the borders open surely killed tens of thousands and took 5% off GDP

    We need to know exactly how much ‘fear of racism’ contributed to this and then the whole culture that perpetuates this toxic drivel needs to be extirpated
    For a taster, the media moan about their lack of foreign holdiays at every press conference....

    Just like Cummings said we should have had a South Korean style tracing system, we should have closed the borders...but the backlash would have been immense...i mean the media lost their shit over the thought of deeping to get into the pub, where as in Israel people just said so where do I download this app from....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    gealbhan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.

    Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.

    Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.
    In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.
    Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?
    Get a grip!
    Pretty bloody good!

    So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!
    No1 ?


    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Pulpstar said:

    UK
    1sts 186,147
    2nds 387,987

    Other notable targets

    England passes 20 million second doses.

    Biggest ever wednesday reported.

    Apparently I was wrong to say that our vaccine progrmme was good
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,962
    edited May 2021
    Roger showing again that private education was wasted on him....more bullshit claims than Prof Peston.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2021
    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    gealbhan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.

    Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.

    Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.
    In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.
    Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?
    Get a grip!
    Pretty bloody good!

    So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!
    26th for excess deaths per capita as of today:

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    Apart from that, good point!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169

    Over 75% off British adults now have covid antibodies -
    https://msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/more-than-three-quarters-of-adults-have-covid-antibodies/ar-AAKoQdC?ocid=uxbndlbing
    Glorious news, and surely we are now on the way out of this. By the 21st of June this should be well over 80% if not a lot higher, plus some of the kids will have recovered/been exposed to covid too. A glorious day.

    The ONS data suggest 75.9 per cent of adults in England have antibodies as of the week beginning May 3.

    25th April, ~ 64% of adults had a vaccination - so if you work on antibodies 8 days after 1st jab then it'll be infection giving an additional 12% or so.

    Obviously as vaccination levels go up the number of people who have antibodies via both vaccination AND prior infection will head north. So it'll be more than 12% of adults infected.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Cummings is a fascinating character. No-one is more fascinated by Cummings than the man himself.

    Concerning Hancock, you have to remember the cabinet was specifically chosen for their incompetence. Possibly another of Cummings cunning plans. Hancock is one of the less incompetent ones. A team of capable players could have supported him. Nevertheless, if you were running a proper organisation rather than merely the government of a major country you would get rid of the lot of them, including Johnson and with the possible exception of Sunak.

    I suspect Cummings may cause some damage. Not for anything particular he says, but for reinforcing the impression of a government in total dysfunction. I think it's hard to say, Cummings is a loose cannon, but the rest of it is a well run machine.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones

    This is that corbyn front group agenda, who have been demanding this.... remember they were screeching the other day that Boris privately had a quiet moment of reflection (and it wasn't a PR stunt, nobody actually knew, other than a member of the public caught him on camera).
    The Covid Families group is run by a professional politically aligned campaigner.

    ZS is another version of RLB.
    I’m always very wary of groups like this for this very reason.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    gealbhan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.

    Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.

    Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.
    In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.
    Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?
    Get a grip!
    Pretty bloody good!

    So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!
    No1 ?


    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker
    We are currently 26th on that list of excess deaths per 100k but we are falling fairly quickly given that our deaths have for statistical purposes pretty much stopped.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    Over 75% off British adults now have covid antibodies -
    https://msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/more-than-three-quarters-of-adults-have-covid-antibodies/ar-AAKoQdC?ocid=uxbndlbing
    Glorious news, and surely we are now on the way out of this. By the 21st of June this should be well over 80% if not a lot higher, plus some of the kids will have recovered/been exposed to covid too. A glorious day.

    That's for first week of May - it's almost certainly over 80% right now.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,962
    edited May 2021
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones

    This is that corbyn front group agenda, who have been demanding this.... remember they were screeching the other day that Boris privately had a quiet moment of reflection (and it wasn't a PR stunt, nobody actually knew, other than a member of the public caught him on camera).
    The Covid Families group is run by a professional politically aligned campaigner.

    ZS is another version of RLB.
    I notice chief Corbynista Matt Zarb-Cousin turning up all over the media recently, from football index to stories about forex scams, up he pops, introduced as some independent gambling support group person.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    gealbhan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.

    Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.

    Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.
    In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.
    Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?
    Get a grip!
    Pretty bloody good!

    So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!
    On no metric whatsoever are we No 1 for deaths (no apostrophe)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    gealbhan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cummings says Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, told Boris Johnson that the cabinet system was not set up to deal with a minister like Matt Hancock who repeatedly lied in meetings.

    Hunt says that is a serious allegation. He says Hancock himself will be giving evidence to the committee next month.

    Firstly Boris has made clear at PMQs he didn’t hear Sedders say that. Secondly, Seders can now now contradict Cummings by saying never said it, calling out Cummings evidence as unsubstantiated lies. Thirdly, it doesn’t mean Hancock has ever told a lie in a meeting, unless there is evidence which proves he has. There is no kangaroo court UK, we are innocent unless proven guilty.
    In the court of public opinion he is guilty as charged on multiple offences.
    Providing the best vaccine programme in the world?
    Get a grip!
    Pretty bloody good!

    So in the top ten for vaccines but No1 for death's. Bravo!
    Do you honestly still believe the UK is number one for deaths?
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,903
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’
    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.

    The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
    It is the single biggest government failure. Perhaps in modern British history. Keeping the borders open surely killed tens of thousands and took 5% off GDP

    We need to know exactly how much ‘fear of racism’ contributed to this and then the whole culture that perpetuates this toxic drivel needs to be extirpated
    I hadn't noticed that Johnson had any "fear of racism" - quite the contrary.

    My reading is that he wanted to appear super-macho, afraid of nothing, being like Churchill and standing up aganst the threat, with a smile on his lips. All a matter of image - and totally heedless about the consequences for others. No need to drag "wokeness" into the narrative.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,722
    So .. was it a damp squib..?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231

    So .. was it a damp squib..?

    Definitely not
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus what a pathetic question. Why isn’t Boris meeting families???!!!! Said in nasal Labour gotcha tones

    This is that corbyn front group agenda, who have been demanding this.... remember they were screeching the other day that Boris privately had a quiet moment of reflection (and it wasn't a PR stunt, nobody actually knew, other than a member of the public caught him on camera).
    The Covid Families group is run by a professional politically aligned campaigner.

    ZS is another version of RLB.
    I notice chief Corbynista Matt Zarb-Cousin turning up all over the media recently, from football index to stories about forex scams, up he pops, introduced as some independent gambling support group person.
    He’s a reformed problem gambler turned useful idiot for the anti gambling lobby. He’s treated as an expert witness when he’s really either a lobbyist or aiding the lobbyists for more restrictions on gambling
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We’ve all wondered why they didn’t close the borders. Now we know. It was The Woke. Closing borders is ‘racist’

    This is pretty explosive stuff now

    That was always the most obvious thing about the whole saga.

    The interesting thing is that hardly anyone accuses New Zealand and Australia of being racist when they closed their borders.
    It is the single biggest government failure. Perhaps in modern British history. Keeping the borders open surely killed tens of thousands and took 5% off GDP

    We need to know exactly how much ‘fear of racism’ contributed to this and then the whole culture that perpetuates this toxic drivel needs to be extirpated
    I have been as critical of the border policy as anyone but the premise that it cost lives is flawed. The extent of infection and therefore death in the UK without vaccines was determined by a number of factors including the density of our population, the age of our population, the "dry tinder" of nursing homes where we dump our elders, the proportion of the community living in multigenerational families etc. In short, it was a given reflecting the make up of our society.

    The argument about borders was that it accelerated the rate at which this wildfire burned through us. It clearly and undoubtedly did and it facilitated more infectious variants as well. But it didn't change the given, only vaccines have done that.

    I think that the economic point is better. If we had been more rigorous about our borders we could have been less rigorous about our internal lockdowns.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Also, flights from India should have been stopped as soon as the Indian variant was identified. They were deliberately allowed to continue for about 5 days, presumably in order not to upset people who wanted to get back to the UK. And that's why a lot of people ended up in hospital in Bolton with the Indian variant.
This discussion has been closed.