Those on here who are celebrating the death of the Labour Party have short memories or are young - or both. We've been here before.
In 1983, Thatcher destroyed the Labour Party, eating deep into its heartlands in the north, the midlands and London. It was absolutely rife for commentators to report that the Party had been taken over by "Hampstead intellectuals", as personified by its hapless leader, Michael Foot, and had lost, or abandoned, its working class roots. The Labour Party was dead and would never govern again, they said. 27.6% of the votes - a complete disaster, an existential crisis. And it was.
But the rest is history. Yes, it took a long time for the Party to reinvigorate itself. But I suspect overcoming Boris's undoubted political skills will be somewhat easier than it was to break through against Thatcherism, if only because the current PM and his cabal could implode quite quickly.
Can I just say that I do not celebrate the possible demise of labour
HMG needs a proper opposition and so does the country
I would. I think it is unhealthy how institutionally influential the unions are in Labour. An independent party would be a better opposition
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
Both words irretrievably tainted by Brexit. Stay/go is better (as is cool it/blow).
If/when the UK Government caves then Remain/Leave would be the ideal formulation, assuming that it actually wants to keep Scotland. Surely if the "Leave vote" is tainted anywhere, it's there?
Yes, the people who would really benefit are the candidates and activists.
Polling day for me in London meant getting up at 5 am for an early morning delivery run which I’d start from 5.30, finish by 7.00 so I could leap in the car and make sure all the first tellers were in position (or alternatively do the first hour at one of them myself), then back to the committee room to set things up, make sure everything was under control and that people knew what they were doing. Time to snatch something for breakfast, then it was pretty much non stop rushing around, a mix of door knocking, delivery, organising and crisis management, through to close of poll at 10pm. The only bits of rest were spells of telling, when as the candidate you had to be smiling and chatting to those people who wanted to talk or ask questions on the way out.
Then a quick shower and change of clothes and it was off to the count. Usually the declarations wouldn’t come through until 3.00 or 4.00 am; by the time I got back from the count it was after a solid 24 hours of activity and exhaustion beckoned, although it was hard to get to sleep without checking the internet to see how friends and colleagues in other patches had done, and to catch the general news. It was incredibly tough.
The thing is, 99 times out of 100, without all that frantic ground game activity the result would be exactly the same.
Of course. I always said that election campaigning was remarkable for having such a huge ratio of effort to outcome. It did make a difference - I have enough anecdotes to prove that - but each person helping probably only shifted the result by a handful of votes. Trouble is, under our voting system, a handful of votes can be all the difference.
One of my favourite election day stories was of a Vet in St Andrews who worked a shift from 7 till just before 10pm. She was absolutely knackered but literally ran through the streets to get to her polling station at 10. She was an SNP supporter and they won by 1 vote.
Of course in some ways I wish she hadn't bothered but in other ways I think its just brilliant, what democracy is all about and a perfect answer to those who say why bother?
I remember in the election when we first captured my ward, we thought it could be close and I turned up at the door of a young couple who had said they would support us, 15 minutes before polls closed. They were having their dinner, and I had to plead with them that their votes could make the difference, offer them both a lift straight there and back, and promise that I could drive fast enough that their dinner wouldn’t be cold on return.
Sportingly, they agreed, and the deed was done. I went to the count confident that I had gone the extra mile and imagined us winning by two. To win the ward by over a thousand was embarrassing, so much so that I actually went back to their house at the weekend after to apologise in person. They were very decent about it and always voted for us thereafter.
I once persuaded a chap who'd forgotten it was election day to run down the road in his pyjamas to vote at 955 - to be honest he didn't need much persuasion and thought it was funny. The polling officer was heroically straight-faced.
(1) This anecdote needs to be in Australia, (2) there needs to be two of them, and (3) they both need to be bananas.
Then, my daughter would love it and watch it perpetually.
The list of Johnson's Covid-19 mishaps is long. Early in the crisis, he was criticized for going into lockdown too late, not taking the virus seriously enough (famously saying he was still shaking hands with people at the same time Covid-19 was ripping through the country) and dropping the ball on crucial matters like testing and providing PPE for medical workers.
His government has been accused of sleaze and cronyism, handing lucrative contracts to people with links to his party. Most recently, Johnson was accused of saying he'd rather "let the bodies pile high in their thousands" than impose another lockdown, a comment he denied making.
His Brexit deal has been criticized for being sloppy and poorly implemented, leaving exporters in serious trouble. He is also being formally investigated by the electoral commission for allegedly letting Conservative donors pay for a very expensive refurbishment of his flat in Downing Street. And his judgment has come under serious scrutiny following a huge fallout in his inner circle.
How, then, has Johnson so resoundingly won this referendum on his leadership?
The first point to note is that Johnson has been bailed out by his government's vaccine rollout. More importantly, Johnson has managed to shift the center ground in England, a difficult feat in modern politics. Finally, the UK is very divided, which works in the Prime Minister's favor, at least for now.
And while Johnson appears to have gamed British politics perfectly for now, he's done so by driving a wedge between the four nations and by reaping the benefits of grievance politics. One day, it's entirely possible Johnson may come to regret unleashing these demons for the sake of victory.
Was this drivel put forward as news or an opinion piece? Trump really did drive them insane.
One can sometimes get a clearer view from a distance. I wouldn't reject it completely if I were you.
I genuinely don't see what Boris is doing which the Scots and Welsh can take such umbrage at. How is he 'driving a wedge between the nations'? (The Northern Irish aside, who do have a genuine grievance.) The wedge was driven between nations 20 years ago by the devolution settlement. As far as I can tell, the complaint t about Boris from the Scots appears to amount to him being English and a Conservative. If this is 'driving a wedge between nations' then the Scots essentially have a veto on any PM they don't like. This is tail-dogwaggery of the highest order. If this is the only way the union can function then the union is already dead.
No, the wedge was driven by Mrs Thatcher's government trialling the poll tax in Scotland. A subsequent complaint was that the same government had spaffed away "Scotland's" North Sea oil money but the poll tax was the initial insult.
Only 1-in-8 people in Scotland believe independence is one of the most important issues the new government should prioritise, a poll taken on the eve of the election has revealed. The Survation poll also found that only 37 per cent of Scots believe there should be a referendum before the end of 2023 – Nicola Sturgeon’s proposed timeline.
It now seems that Rayner is not just refusing to be sacked by trying to reshuffle Starmer’s office in response. Hugely costly to his authority (as May found out). Quote Tweet Sienna Rodgers @siennamarla · 10m I'm told separately that she wants senior LOTO figures gone. Easy to see why negotiations aren't getting anywhere fast...
In office but not in power.
Still no word.
Starmer should learn from May that they go for your advisors first and if you give them up, they come for you next.
Those on here who are celebrating the death of the Labour Party have short memories or are young - or both. We've been here before.
In 1983, Thatcher destroyed the Labour Party, eating deep into its heartlands in the north, the midlands and London. It was absolutely rife for commentators to report that the Party had been taken over by "Hampstead intellectuals", as personified by its hapless leader, Michael Foot, and had lost, or abandoned, its working class roots. The Labour Party was dead and would never govern again, they said. 27.6% of the votes - a complete disaster, an existential crisis. And it was.
But the rest is history. Yes, it took a long time for the Party to reinvigorate itself. But I suspect overcoming Boris's undoubted political skills will be somewhat easier than it was to break through against Thatcherism, if only because the current PM and his cabal could implode quite quickly.
Can I just say that I do not celebrate the possible demise of labour
HMG needs a proper opposition and so does the country
Why does the Opposition have to come from Labour? If we can have a realignment amongst the electorate, then why not amongst their representatives as well? I know it hasn't happened for a long time - in England. But it can happen. Scotland demonstrates this.
I'd be delighted to see the back of the Labour Party. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
That is a fair point but labour will still exist in some form and I believe we will see the rise of the greens and the lib dems, so the opposition will be divided and not coherent
By implication you are arguing that Labour is currently united and coherent
This, however, does not necessarily mean that, as the first minister claims, holding another referendum is now clearly the "will of the people" in Scotland.
Rather, the outcome of the election confirms that Scotland is evenly divided on the constitutional question.
The three main pro-union parties won 50.4 per cent of the constituency vote, but the three main list parties secured 50.1 per cent of the list vote. The pro-independence majority is a consequence of the limitations of Holyrood’s supposedly proportional electoral system (devised over twenty years ago by Labour and the Liberal Democrats) rather than evidence of a clear majority in favour of another referendum.
It's not the Will of the People, but there's a clear democratic mandate for it. Both these things are true at the same time.
The number of MSPs is irrelevant - you don’t elect a representative to represent you in something that is outwith their powers
But they just did
No, they didn’t. The SNP candidates promised* to hold a referendum on independence. But it is not in their power to grant a legal referendum. They can only try to put pressure on the Westminster parliament to grant one.** It would like a Mayor of London promising to declare war on France - it might win votes but doesn’t change the scope of their power
* I haven’t read their manifesto so don’t know precisely what they promised
** the share of the vote is a better argument - although only for putting pressure on Westminster - but I understand (saw some debate between @DavidL & @RochdalePioneers this afternoon) that was pretty close up 50/50 so not an overwhelming demand
The trick will be to deny a referendum without looking like they are doing so, and shift the dial in favour of the Union at the same time.
Look out for a UK/EU deal on NI and Scotland in the next few months..
It is pretty obvious that SNPs other than hotheads will be looking for a way out of Ref2 unless the polling changes. With vote share and polling both indicating 50/50 as close as can be, the stuff about seat share is all huffing and puffing. It has done the Tory prospects no harm to have SNP in power there. It does the SNP no harm to hold out a hope for indefinite future and keep all the jobs for the girls in Edinburgh and Westminster, and all that English money they don't acknowledge.
Predict steady as she goes, and lots of theatricals.
Nope, he's not Police and Crime Commissioner of South Yorkshire, whereas Tracey Babin is subsuming the role of the West Yorkshire's Police and Crime Commissioner.
You can't double job that.
Yorkshire Post used the word 'obliged' today in relation to Brabin giving up her seat, so I don't n know if something is formally written. In to the devolution deal?
It is in the original legislation that set up the Police & Crime Commissioners.
Disqualifications that apply on election
1.5 Members of the House of Commons, the Scottish Parliament, the National Assembly for Wales, the Northern Ireland Assembly or the European Parliament may stand for election as a Police and Crime Commissioner. However, if they are elected they must resign their seat before taking up the post of Police and Crime Commissioner.
Nope, he's not Police and Crime Commissioner of South Yorkshire, whereas Tracey Babin is subsuming the role of the West Yorkshire's Police and Crime Commissioner.
You can't double job that.
Yorkshire Post used the word 'obliged' today in relation to Brabin giving up her seat, so I don't n know if something is formally written. In to the devolution deal?
Husband relates that no individual can be a PCC (or a mayor subsuming the powers thereof) and an MP simultaneously, except for the Mayor of London whose office is constituted under separate legislation.
Those on here who are celebrating the death of the Labour Party have short memories or are young - or both. We've been here before.
In 1983, Thatcher destroyed the Labour Party, eating deep into its heartlands in the north, the midlands and London. It was absolutely rife for commentators to report that the Party had been taken over by "Hampstead intellectuals", as personified by its hapless leader, Michael Foot, and had lost, or abandoned, its working class roots. The Labour Party was dead and would never govern again, they said. 27.6% of the votes - a complete disaster, an existential crisis. And it was.
But the rest is history. Yes, it took a long time for the Party to reinvigorate itself. But I suspect overcoming Boris's undoubted political skills will be somewhat easier than it was to break through against Thatcherism, if only because the current PM and his cabal could implode quite quickly.
Can I just say that I do not celebrate the possible demise of labour
HMG needs a proper opposition and so does the country
Why does the Opposition have to come from Labour? If we can have a realignment amongst the electorate, then why not amongst their representatives as well? I know it hasn't happened for a long time - in England. But it can happen. Scotland demonstrates this.
I'd be delighted to see the back of the Labour Party. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
That is a fair point but labour will still exist in some form and I believe we will see the rise of the greens and the lib dems, so the opposition will be divided and not coherent
By implication you are arguing that Labour is currently united and coherent
If the assembly of councillors at Scottish Borders council votes for our schools to stop using Curriculum for Excellence then Holyrood has to respect that because to block it would be a blatant assault on democracy - that’s how it works, right? #mandate
I see that 20-25% of Conservative votes for London Mayor gave Lib Dem or Green for second preference (or it might have been the other way round, I forget) suggesting that quite a few Remainers in London voted Bailey.
There's clearly more to a Conservative vote than just Brexit and I suspect that extends into the home counties too.
Conservatives seem to be better at holding onto Remain voters than Labour are at holding onto Leave voters.
The coalition that won in 2019 was made up of 75% of the then-LEAVE vote (48%) and 20% of the then-REMAIN vote (52%) - roughly.
The latter, while not supportive of leaving the EU in 2016, either considered the requirement to settle the issue the paramount consideration or were so terrified of Jeremy Corbyn they were always to vote for any party capable of stopping him.
The question for the opposition is how you break apart that coalition. Time will help - as the distance between our membership of the EU and the present increases, so the salience of 2016 should diminish. The second part will depend on whether the latter group is fiscally conservative (in which case there's an opening) or would be willing to support a "centrist" Labour party or whether they are Conservative no matter what (I suspect elements of all three).
I always think of @TOPPING in situations like this.
He clearly hates Brexit, but he dislikes Labour even more. He thinks Brexit is a major policy mistake but it hasn't changed the fundamentals of the Conservative v Labour paradigm.
Unless and until the Labour party offers a centrist, fiscally responsible and efficient tax & spend option I suspect that will remain the case.
Well ... I am a lifelong Tory voter. They have lost me over a combination of Brexit, Johnson (the NZR fiasco when he was FS being the last straw) and dropped opposition to the Hunting Act. I don't see myself voting tory ever again, but not lab either. Lib dem or abstain from here on in.
The Tories lost me over lockdown. But from my point of view Labour is essentially a much worse version of the Conservative Party. Same authoritarianism and living beyond our means, only more so and with added identity politics.
Those on here who are celebrating the death of the Labour Party have short memories or are young - or both. We've been here before.
In 1983, Thatcher destroyed the Labour Party, eating deep into its heartlands in the north, the midlands and London. It was absolutely rife for commentators to report that the Party had been taken over by "Hampstead intellectuals", as personified by its hapless leader, Michael Foot, and had lost, or abandoned, its working class roots. The Labour Party was dead and would never govern again, they said. 27.6% of the votes - a complete disaster, an existential crisis. And it was.
But the rest is history. Yes, it took a long time for the Party to reinvigorate itself. But I suspect overcoming Boris's undoubted political skills will be somewhat easier than it was to break through against Thatcherism, if only because the current PM and his cabal could implode quite quickly.
Can I just say that I do not celebrate the possible demise of labour
HMG needs a proper opposition and so does the country
I would celebrate the demise of Labour for precisely that same reason.
The fact that the Tories love having Labour as their only credible opponents is the clue.
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
The list of Johnson's Covid-19 mishaps is long. Early in the crisis, he was criticized for going into lockdown too late, not taking the virus seriously enough (famously saying he was still shaking hands with people at the same time Covid-19 was ripping through the country) and dropping the ball on crucial matters like testing and providing PPE for medical workers.
His government has been accused of sleaze and cronyism, handing lucrative contracts to people with links to his party. Most recently, Johnson was accused of saying he'd rather "let the bodies pile high in their thousands" than impose another lockdown, a comment he denied making.
His Brexit deal has been criticized for being sloppy and poorly implemented, leaving exporters in serious trouble. He is also being formally investigated by the electoral commission for allegedly letting Conservative donors pay for a very expensive refurbishment of his flat in Downing Street. And his judgment has come under serious scrutiny following a huge fallout in his inner circle.
How, then, has Johnson so resoundingly won this referendum on his leadership?
The first point to note is that Johnson has been bailed out by his government's vaccine rollout. More importantly, Johnson has managed to shift the center ground in England, a difficult feat in modern politics. Finally, the UK is very divided, which works in the Prime Minister's favor, at least for now.
And while Johnson appears to have gamed British politics perfectly for now, he's done so by driving a wedge between the four nations and by reaping the benefits of grievance politics. One day, it's entirely possible Johnson may come to regret unleashing these demons for the sake of victory.
Was this drivel put forward as news or an opinion piece? Trump really did drive them insane.
One can sometimes get a clearer view from a distance. I wouldn't reject it completely if I were you.
I genuinely don't see what Boris is doing which the Scots and Welsh can take such umbrage at. How is he 'driving a wedge between the nations'? (The Northern Irish aside, who do have a genuine grievance.) The wedge was driven between nations 20 years ago by the devolution settlement. As far as I can tell, the complaint t about Boris from the Scots appears to amount to him being English and a Conservative. If this is 'driving a wedge between nations' then the Scots essentially have a veto on any PM they don't like. This is tail-dogwaggery of the highest order. If this is the only way the union can function then the union is already dead.
No, the wedge was driven by Mrs Thatcher's government trialling the poll tax in Scotland. A subsequent complaint was that the same government had spaffed away "Scotland's" North Sea oil money but the poll tax was the initial insult.
That was just after the Scots (but not the English) had actually had a rates revaluation.
Also because the Scots were being ruled by Tories with no democratic mandate in Scotland itself. The problem in particular was that the Scottish legal system, education system, and so on, were being determined solely by Westminster, without any regard to what the natives wanted (other than the minority of Scottish Tories). It was the poll tax that really rubbed in the colonial nature of that relationship, and led ultimately to Blairite devolution.
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
The list of Johnson's Covid-19 mishaps is long. Early in the crisis, he was criticized for going into lockdown too late, not taking the virus seriously enough (famously saying he was still shaking hands with people at the same time Covid-19 was ripping through the country) and dropping the ball on crucial matters like testing and providing PPE for medical workers.
His government has been accused of sleaze and cronyism, handing lucrative contracts to people with links to his party. Most recently, Johnson was accused of saying he'd rather "let the bodies pile high in their thousands" than impose another lockdown, a comment he denied making.
His Brexit deal has been criticized for being sloppy and poorly implemented, leaving exporters in serious trouble. He is also being formally investigated by the electoral commission for allegedly letting Conservative donors pay for a very expensive refurbishment of his flat in Downing Street. And his judgment has come under serious scrutiny following a huge fallout in his inner circle.
How, then, has Johnson so resoundingly won this referendum on his leadership?
The first point to note is that Johnson has been bailed out by his government's vaccine rollout. More importantly, Johnson has managed to shift the center ground in England, a difficult feat in modern politics. Finally, the UK is very divided, which works in the Prime Minister's favor, at least for now.
And while Johnson appears to have gamed British politics perfectly for now, he's done so by driving a wedge between the four nations and by reaping the benefits of grievance politics. One day, it's entirely possible Johnson may come to regret unleashing these demons for the sake of victory.
Was this drivel put forward as news or an opinion piece? Trump really did drive them insane.
One can sometimes get a clearer view from a distance. I wouldn't reject it completely if I were you.
I genuinely don't see what Boris is doing which the Scots and Welsh can take such umbrage at. How is he 'driving a wedge between the nations'? (The Northern Irish aside, who do have a genuine grievance.) The wedge was driven between nations 20 years ago by the devolution settlement. As far as I can tell, the complaint t about Boris from the Scots appears to amount to him being English and a Conservative. If this is 'driving a wedge between nations' then the Scots essentially have a veto on any PM they don't like. This is tail-dogwaggery of the highest order. If this is the only way the union can function then the union is already dead.
No, the wedge was driven by Mrs Thatcher's government trialling the poll tax in Scotland. A subsequent complaint was that the same government had spaffed away "Scotland's" North Sea oil money but the poll tax was the initial insult.
I could make a defence of either of those, but it would be a half-hearted one at best.
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
The other point in that is, surely the use of leave/remain is already confused with Brexit. Which is what is being rtegistered in comparative studies, no doubt. If the Tories of all people were happy with the EC's decision in 2012-13 then it seems very odd to go back on that, except for ulterior motives.
Labour need to find a candidate from Yorkshire, from outside politics, without a Twitter feed to pick through for pro-remain Tweets, amongst other things.
A local business leader like Andy Street would be good.
Geoff Boycott?
A great choice if we're pivoting to "so unwoke we're comatose".
Lives in S Africa
I walked past Boycott in Leeds a couple of years ago. Caught his eye, smiled and nodded to him as I passed and the miserable old git stared right through me and blanked me totally. Definitely a Tory. (I jest, I jest, sorry Tories, only messing. Some of my best friends are Tories. Boycott’s definitely a Tory supporter though, I know that for sure.)
When I was a little kid, 1960s, I used to collect players' autographs at Headingley. Boycott always refused and was foul and dismissive, quite unpleasant to us little ones. The other foul one I remember was Derek Underwood - another Tory, I reckon. By contrast, Gary Sobers was lovely and always found to give us an autograph - a class act.
I woz there, Headingley 77, Ashes Test, his home ground, hot sun, bloke running on to give him a pint of John Smiths after he'd just knocked up his career 100th 100.
You just could not script it. Pure Yorkshire bliss.
Just for the (pedantic) record - surely Tetley's, not John Smith's, in Leeds?
Sorry, yes, memory going - Tetleys. It was Tetleys. With a good head on it.
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
It's not about understanding, it's about the implicit bias for the positive 'yes' option.
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
I am always uneasy about men (in particular) commenting on women’s clothes. There are far too many opportunities for misunderstanding. As well as, it seems a bit sexist (it’s much rarer for men to be criticised, although I do remember William Hague’s infamous baseball cap).
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
It's not about understanding, it's about the implicit bias for the positive 'yes' option.
Or rather the implicit bias in the other direction for the 'leave' option.
This was all tested in 2012-3 and nobody complained then.
Yes, the people who would really benefit are the candidates and activists.
Polling day for me in London meant getting up at 5 am for an early morning delivery run which I’d start from 5.30, finish by 7.00 so I could leap in the car and make sure all the first tellers were in position (or alternatively do the first hour at one of them myself), then back to the committee room to set things up, make sure everything was under control and that people knew what they were doing. Time to snatch something for breakfast, then it was pretty much non stop rushing around, a mix of door knocking, delivery, organising and crisis management, through to close of poll at 10pm. The only bits of rest were spells of telling, when as the candidate you had to be smiling and chatting to those people who wanted to talk or ask questions on the way out.
Then a quick shower and change of clothes and it was off to the count. Usually the declarations wouldn’t come through until 3.00 or 4.00 am; by the time I got back from the count it was after a solid 24 hours of activity and exhaustion beckoned, although it was hard to get to sleep without checking the internet to see how friends and colleagues in other patches had done, and to catch the general news. It was incredibly tough.
The thing is, 99 times out of 100, without all that frantic ground game activity the result would be exactly the same.
Of course. I always said that election campaigning was remarkable for having such a huge ratio of effort to outcome. It did make a difference - I have enough anecdotes to prove that - but each person helping probably only shifted the result by a handful of votes. Trouble is, under our voting system, a handful of votes can be all the difference.
One of my favourite election day stories was of a Vet in St Andrews who worked a shift from 7 till just before 10pm. She was absolutely knackered but literally ran through the streets to get to her polling station at 10. She was an SNP supporter and they won by 1 vote.
Of course in some ways I wish she hadn't bothered but in other ways I think its just brilliant, what democracy is all about and a perfect answer to those who say why bother?
I remember in the election when we first captured my ward, we thought it could be close and I turned up at the door of a young couple who had said they would support us, 15 minutes before polls closed. They were having their dinner, and I had to plead with them that their votes could make the difference, offer them both a lift straight there and back, and promise that I could drive fast enough that their dinner wouldn’t be cold on return.
Sportingly, they agreed, and the deed was done. I went to the count confident that I had gone the extra mile and imagined us winning by two. To win the ward by over a thousand was embarrassing, so much so that I actually went back to their house at the weekend after to apologise in person. They were very decent about it and always voted for us thereafter.
That you went to that effort may be an indication of why you won by a thousand.
We certainly bust a gut, the whole campaign. But as someone said upthread, the result was surely in the bag before the campaign even started, and we’d have won if we’d taken the month off and gone on holiday. It’s the work before the election starts that really counts.
At risk of spoiling their fun: the SNP did not win a mandate for a second referendum on Thursday. As I have argued before, it is impossible to obtain a mandate for the exercise of reserved powers at an election to a devolved parliament. Sure, both the SNP and Green manifestos promised to pursue another vote. Each also pledged to see the UK’s nuclear submarines removed from Scottish waters. Is Westminster expected to accord this ‘mandate’ the same deference as that on independence? You might say a referendum is different because it specifies a mechanism for determining an outcome rather than expressing a point of principle, but if that is the case then the SNP and Greens need only pledge a referendum on booting Trident out of Faslane in their next manifestos to activate the same principle.
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
Labour need to find a candidate from Yorkshire, from outside politics, without a Twitter feed to pick through for pro-remain Tweets, amongst other things.
A local business leader like Andy Street would be good.
Geoff Boycott?
A great choice if we're pivoting to "so unwoke we're comatose".
Lives in S Africa
I walked past Boycott in Leeds a couple of years ago. Caught his eye, smiled and nodded to him as I passed and the miserable old git stared right through me and blanked me totally. Definitely a Tory. (I jest, I jest, sorry Tories, only messing. Some of my best friends are Tories. Boycott’s definitely a Tory supporter though, I know that for sure.)
When I was a little kid, 1960s, I used to collect players' autographs at Headingley. Boycott always refused and was foul and dismissive, quite unpleasant to us little ones. The other foul one I remember was Derek Underwood - another Tory, I reckon. By contrast, Gary Sobers was lovely and always found to give us an autograph - a class act.
I woz there, Headingley 77, Ashes Test, his home ground, hot sun, bloke running on to give him a pint of John Smiths after he'd just knocked up his career 100th 100.
You just could not script it. Pure Yorkshire bliss.
Just for the (pedantic) record - surely Tetley's, not John Smith's, in Leeds?
Sorry, yes, memory going - Tetleys. It was Tetleys. With a good head on it.
PB Tories predicting the death of Labour is always entertaining
Whereas your hyper-partisan posts, invariably pre-faced with "PB Tories", are anything but.
Try and be like Nick Palmer, Jonathan or Gallowgate. They support Labour, but are at least interesting to read.
Your posts are just "wokeism is destroying the world" on repeat, over and over. Hilarious that you would lecture others about how to post.
I'll ignore you from here - and you can do the same should you wish. Have a lovely life Casino
Well, it's your prerogative if you want to do that. However, I've been involved in politics for over 20 years. I also make quite a bit of money betting from it, and have done so throughout peaks and troughs of the political cycle. That should speak for itself in terms of my analysis.
Will I get it wrong from time to time? Sure I will, we all do, but I know my shit and am worth listening to.
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
Labour need to find a candidate from Yorkshire, from outside politics, without a Twitter feed to pick through for pro-remain Tweets, amongst other things.
A local business leader like Andy Street would be good.
Geoff Boycott?
A great choice if we're pivoting to "so unwoke we're comatose".
Lives in S Africa
I walked past Boycott in Leeds a couple of years ago. Caught his eye, smiled and nodded to him as I passed and the miserable old git stared right through me and blanked me totally. Definitely a Tory. (I jest, I jest, sorry Tories, only messing. Some of my best friends are Tories. Boycott’s definitely a Tory supporter though, I know that for sure.)
When I was a little kid, 1960s, I used to collect players' autographs at Headingley. Boycott always refused and was foul and dismissive, quite unpleasant to us little ones. The other foul one I remember was Derek Underwood - another Tory, I reckon. By contrast, Gary Sobers was lovely and always found to give us an autograph - a class act.
I woz there, Headingley 77, Ashes Test, his home ground, hot sun, bloke running on to give him a pint of John Smiths after he'd just knocked up his career 100th 100.
You just could not script it. Pure Yorkshire bliss.
Just for the (pedantic) record - surely Tetley's, not John Smith's, in Leeds?
Sorry, yes, memory going - Tetleys. It was Tetleys. With a good head on it.
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
It's not about understanding, it's about the implicit bias for the positive 'yes' option.
I know, But I find it deeply depressing that people are so stupid that this makes a difference. Its genuinely incredible.
This, however, does not necessarily mean that, as the first minister claims, holding another referendum is now clearly the "will of the people" in Scotland.
Rather, the outcome of the election confirms that Scotland is evenly divided on the constitutional question.
The three main pro-union parties won 50.4 per cent of the constituency vote, but the three main list parties secured 50.1 per cent of the list vote. The pro-independence majority is a consequence of the limitations of Holyrood’s supposedly proportional electoral system (devised over twenty years ago by Labour and the Liberal Democrats) rather than evidence of a clear majority in favour of another referendum.
It's not the Will of the People, but there's a clear democratic mandate for it. Both these things are true at the same time.
The number of MSPs is irrelevant - you don’t elect a representative to represent you in something that is outwith their powers
The number of MSPs is relevant to the mandate. Whether the mandate should be denied by Westminster on arcane legal grounds is a separate question. My opinion is it could be but shouldn't be. For 2 reasons, one of principle, one pragmatic. The principle is the right of the Scottish people to decide whether they wish to stay a part of the union. The pragmatism is that to deny and delay would make an acrimonious split more likely. Remain would be favourite if the vote were held soon. Respect democracy, win the vote, secure the union. That's the right way, the honest way, the best way. So I suppose Johnson won't do it. Or might he? In truth I'm not so sure.
And that’s exactly the point:
The MSP mandate explicitly doesn’t include a referendum under the terms of the law that established the Scottish Parliament
The right of the Scottish people to determine their future is more strongly demonstrated by the share of the vote which was about 50/50. If it had been 60/40 then I would have happily argued that Westminster should listen to that demand. But 50/50 doesn’t demonstrate a desire to go through the trauma of a further referendum
Neither Boris nor SNP leadership will want Ref2 once the fuss settles down. It would be pure Russian roulette with 2 chambers and no fewer than one bullet. Possibly two. Fun for PBers of course, but Nicola and Boris have a huge interest in common - personal survival. It has a certain prisoner dilemma/Zugswang/first move disadvantage element to it which makes for great political theatre. The two most interesting politicians in the UK have a common interest in making the subject boring.
TALES OF WHITEHALL - THE BRITISH FOREIGN OFFICE IN ACTION
Was just re-reading "The Blue Nile" by Alan Moorehead, a true classic. In which the author describes the strange background, wretched course and sad conclusion of the rise and fall of the Emperor Theodore (Tewodros) of Abyssinia > Ethiopia (1818-68). And his quixotic but very serious war with the British Empire.
Theodore was a self-made monarch, initially well-disposed to the British. So much so that he wrote a very nice, suitably regal letter to his opposite number, Queen Victoria:
"In the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, one God in Trinity, chosen by God, King of Kings, Theodore of Ethiopia, to her Majesty, Victoria Queen of England.
I hope that your Majesty is in good health. By the power of God I am well. My fathers, the Emperors, having forgotten the Creator, He handed over their Kingdom to the Gallas and the Turks. But God created me, lifted me out of the dust, and restored this Empire to my rule. He endowed me with power and enabled me to stand in the place of my fathers. By this power I drove away the Gallas. As for the Turks I have told them to leave the land of my ancestors. They refuse. I am now going to wrestle with them
Mr Plowden and my late Grand Chamberlain, the Englishman Bell, used to tell me that there is a great Christian Queen, who loves all Christians. When they said this to me: 'We are able to make you known to her and to establish friendship between you,' then in those times I was very glad. I gave them my love, thinking that I had found your Majesty's good will."
After explaining that enemies had killed both Plowden and Bell before they could connect the two monarchs, and the difficulties in communication between Ethiopia and England, Theodore ended his missive as follows:
"I fear that if I send ambassadors with presents of amity by [British] Consul Cameron, they may be arrested by the Turks. And now I wish that you may arrange for the safe passage of my ambassadors everywhere on the road. I wish to have an answer to this letter by Consul Cameron, and that he may conduct my Embassy to England. See how Islam oppresses the Christian."
A respectful, albeit self-serving letter from a savvy if rather unpredictable ruler, who saw himself as the descendant (in spirit anyway) of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.
AND what did the Foreign Office do when the letter, after months of hard travel & daring do, finally reached Whitehall?
Some functionary read the translation, had a chuckle, stuck it in a file cabinet - and forgot about it.
When Theodore finally realized that there was NO RESPONSE WHATEVER, from the "great Christian Queen" he was MOST unhappy, to put it most mildly.
The result was war. A most unnecessary, pointless, costly war, for Britain, Ethiopia and Theodore.
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
I expect all my politicians to be in three piece suits at all times.
The funny thing is that the vegan woke brigade love charity shop vintage clothes and would probably happily waltz around in leopard-print trousers and stomper boots.
I see that 20-25% of Conservative votes for London Mayor gave Lib Dem or Green for second preference (or it might have been the other way round, I forget) suggesting that quite a few Remainers in London voted Bailey.
There's clearly more to a Conservative vote than just Brexit and I suspect that extends into the home counties too.
Conservatives seem to be better at holding onto Remain voters than Labour are at holding onto Leave voters.
The coalition that won in 2019 was made up of 75% of the then-LEAVE vote (48%) and 20% of the then-REMAIN vote (52%) - roughly.
The latter, while not supportive of leaving the EU in 2016, either considered the requirement to settle the issue the paramount consideration or were so terrified of Jeremy Corbyn they were always to vote for any party capable of stopping him.
The question for the opposition is how you break apart that coalition. Time will help - as the distance between our membership of the EU and the present increases, so the salience of 2016 should diminish. The second part will depend on whether the latter group is fiscally conservative (in which case there's an opening) or would be willing to support a "centrist" Labour party or whether they are Conservative no matter what (I suspect elements of all three).
I always think of @TOPPING in situations like this.
He clearly hates Brexit, but he dislikes Labour even more. He thinks Brexit is a major policy mistake but it hasn't changed the fundamentals of the Conservative v Labour paradigm.
Unless and until the Labour party offers a centrist, fiscally responsible and efficient tax & spend option I suspect that will remain the case.
Well ... I am a lifelong Tory voter. They have lost me over a combination of Brexit, Johnson (the NZR fiasco when he was FS being the last straw) and dropped opposition to the Hunting Act. I don't see myself voting tory ever again, but not lab either. Lib dem or abstain from here on in.
The Tories lost me over lockdown. But from my point of view Labour is essentially a much worse version of the Conservative Party. Same authoritarianism and living beyond our means, only more so and with added identity politics.
Too much lockdown or too little?
I really don't understand this. The choices are some form of lockdown, or be like india. Even if that's not true the governments of all sane western nations have acted as if it were true, including the other UK home nations (and sks). Pop psy nonsense about the mythical Stockholm Syndrome does not alter this reality.
Labour need to find a candidate from Yorkshire, from outside politics, without a Twitter feed to pick through for pro-remain Tweets, amongst other things.
A local business leader like Andy Street would be good.
Geoff Boycott?
A great choice if we're pivoting to "so unwoke we're comatose".
Lives in S Africa
I walked past Boycott in Leeds a couple of years ago. Caught his eye, smiled and nodded to him as I passed and the miserable old git stared right through me and blanked me totally. Definitely a Tory. (I jest, I jest, sorry Tories, only messing. Some of my best friends are Tories. Boycott’s definitely a Tory supporter though, I know that for sure.)
When I was a little kid, 1960s, I used to collect players' autographs at Headingley. Boycott always refused and was foul and dismissive, quite unpleasant to us little ones. The other foul one I remember was Derek Underwood - another Tory, I reckon. By contrast, Gary Sobers was lovely and always found to give us an autograph - a class act.
I woz there, Headingley 77, Ashes Test, his home ground, hot sun, bloke running on to give him a pint of John Smiths after he'd just knocked up his career 100th 100.
You just could not script it. Pure Yorkshire bliss.
Just for the (pedantic) record - surely Tetley's, not John Smith's, in Leeds?
Sorry, yes, memory going - Tetleys. It was Tetleys. With a good head on it.
Awful awful beer head or no head...
It’s not Stella.
Good night.
Its just a case of northern beer v southern beer its the water innit!
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
In fairness in SindyRef14 Salmond deliberately tried to confuse the issue "we won't be leaving the United Kingdom, the Union of the Crowns..."
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
It's not about understanding, it's about the implicit bias for the positive 'yes' option.
I know, But I find it deeply depressing that people are so stupid that this makes a difference. Its genuinely incredible.
Do you do jury trials and do you feel the same about those?
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
I think ID cards, of some description, to vote while ok in theory seems disproportionate to the problems they are trying to address, but it's just lazy to label it as Republican tactics by Boris when some have been pushing this idea for bloody ages. I'd expect better from Iannuci than 'The bad man does something like the other people you don't like, so they are exactly the same' stuff.
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
I expect all my politicians to be in three piece suits at all times.
The funny thing is that the vegan woke brigade love charity shop vintage clothes and would probably happily waltz around in leopard-print trousers and stomper boots.
You have described my current outfit to a Texas T!
Am also sporting a "fascinator", gold-tipped walking stick and "Baby on Board" T-shirt (am a little short for my weight, by say 1' 6").
LAB will be back in power in due course say GE2029. Led by someone we don't know.
In 1987 everyone said LAB wouldn't win again. No one had heard of Blair. 1997 super LAB!
Don't know who the new Blair is though! 👍
In 1997 Labour went into that an election with its iron grip on the Northern conurbations and the central belt of Scotland intact. When the Tories had to fight back from their near death experience, they still had their core territory in the wealthy Shires to build back from.
Labour now has more seats than John Major managed to save in '97, but Scottish Labour has been relegated to fringe status at Westminster, and Labour's remaining support outside the core cities and South Wales is decidedly moth-eaten. They also appear to suffer from increasingly inefficient voter distribution.
If Johnson succeeds in demolishing what's left of the Red Wall, then Labour could easily find itself down to about 160-170 seats. That would then leave Labour ground down to 1997 Tory levels, and that's before we consider the possibility of Scotland dropping off and taking its major potential confidence and supply partner along with it.
There are nearly fifty Labour-held marginals available on swings of less then 5%, the large majority of which are in the Midlands and the North of England. It would be fascinating, post-Hartlepool, to know exactly how many of those had Brexit Party votes in excess of Labour's majorities. A great many, one would suspect.
Labour really needs to get its act together soon if it wants to survive. If it gets caned again next time, then we'll be onto the fifth successive Tory-led Government, and one sitting on a landslide majority at that, and Labour will be toast.
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
I expect all my politicians to be in three piece suits at all times.
The funny thing is that the vegan woke brigade love charity shop vintage clothes and would probably happily waltz around in leopard-print trousers and stomper boots.
Yes. And it all misses the point. If Boris turned up in Hartlepool in the dress uniform of the Blues and Royals, or on the other hand wearing a shell suit, trainers, dinosaur shorts and a top hat he would have done fine. It's all about the persona within.
Matt SIngh: The availability of election data in Britain really is a disgrace. It would not be difficult or expensive to have councils enter results data in to a common spreadsheet linked to a central database
Oxfordshire Tory collapse continues. LibDems have gained a few more and could even become the largest party at a pinch.
There are some very surprising gains in Oxfordshire.
The Labour and Green voteshare jump in Witney North and East is huge, which of course was David Cameron's seat.
Witney parliamentary constituency was Dave's seat, but that's not his county council division. His county council division is Charlbury & Wychwood, which the Lib Dems retained very comfortably. Still narrowly Conservative at district level though (Chadlington & Churchill).
At the Oxfordshire count, the Returning Officer accidentally put the total number of votes for Labour to the Conservative candidate and the Conservative total to the Labour candidate. So they declared the Conservative elected while Labour actually won.
Now they need an election petition to correct the mistake.
The RO already got a job offer from Tower Hamlets to run the 2024 count
She might need it, given that she's also the CEO of Oxfordshire County Council, Labour are unsurprisingly out for her blood, and it looks plausible that Labour might be involved in the next administration...
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
There was a poll last week or so that showed a lot of Scots who favour independence also seem to believe that they will keep everything they like about the UK, so I'm not surprised in the different responses depending on the question. I think quite a lot of people see independence as a sort of devolution max, not becoming an entirely different state.
At the Oxfordshire count, the Returning Officer accidentally put the total number of votes for Labour to the Conservative candidate and the Conservative total to the Labour candidate. So they declared the Conservative elected while Labour actually won.
Now they need an election petition to correct the mistake.
The RO already got a job offer from Tower Hamlets to run the 2024 count
IIRC the RO in Mansfield in 2017 almost declared Alan Meale the winner despite him losing to Ben Bradley but just managed to correct it at the last minute.
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
It's not about understanding, it's about the implicit bias for the positive 'yes' option.
I know, But I find it deeply depressing that people are so stupid that this makes a difference. Its genuinely incredible.
You do know half the population has below-average intelligence (more than half because of head injuries and the like, not to mention age!).
As with the London Mayor ballot paper I've been complaining about for the past couple of days, the real problem is not voters misunderstanding the question, it is that the intelligentsia does not realise that apparently trivial things matter.
I think ID cards, of some description, to vote while ok in theory seems disproportionate to the problems they are trying to address, but it's just lazy to label it as Republican tactics by Boris when some have been pushing this idea for bloody ages. I'd expect better from Iannuci than 'The bad man does something like the other people you don't like, so they are exactly the same' stuff.
If you believe they want ID cards to make elections fairer rather than more favourable to them you are slipping. Their rationale is the same as the Republicans on this issue, bend democracy to the Tories/Republicans at the cost of fairness.
On topic, I really enjoy GE nights and usually stay up or catch up when wakeful (as most nights). However if they decided it would be best to count next day, that seems fair enough.
From yesterday evening, I'm puzzled about the BBC breaking that embargo. Why would they do that? (Sorry if that's already been debated, I haven't had time to read right through the threads.)
Good evening, everyone.
Edited to change autocorrected word.
On topic, not bothering to count till the next day would just give us 15 hours of an exit poll being treated as the result, which doesn't feel that heallthy given the lack of discipline to do otherwise in the media
Thinking outside the box, you could alternatively extend voting until 10am the next day, and then start counting.
Spread the voting over 2 days, finishing at 1800 on the second at a civilised time such as 1700, to allow an evening count. It could all be wrapped up before midnight on Friday.
Those on here who are celebrating the death of the Labour Party have short memories or are young - or both. We've been here before.
In 1983, Thatcher destroyed the Labour Party, eating deep into its heartlands in the north, the midlands and London. It was absolutely rife for commentators to report that the Party had been taken over by "Hampstead intellectuals", as personified by its hapless leader, Michael Foot, and had lost, or abandoned, its working class roots. The Labour Party was dead and would never govern again, they said. 27.6% of the votes - a complete disaster, an existential crisis. And it was.
But the rest is history. Yes, it took a long time for the Party to reinvigorate itself. But I suspect overcoming Boris's undoubted political skills will be somewhat easier than it was to break through against Thatcherism, if only because the current PM and his cabal could implode quite quickly.
Can I just say that I do not celebrate the possible demise of labour
HMG needs a proper opposition and so does the country
I would. I think it is unhealthy how institutionally influential the unions are in Labour. An independent party would be a better opposition
But of course the influence of corporate donors and the landed gentry in the Conservative Party is a force for good?
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
What's happening in Bristol could be the start of something existential for Labour.
The risk is that they drop down to 20-25% of the vote and only 120-130 seats.
The Democrats have the advantage in the USA that they hoover up all the Left, just as the Republicans do the Right. Here, under FPTP, the British Left is segmented, whilst the Tories have feasted on all their rivals.
If you merged the LDs, Labour and Greens together (and SNP, for that matter) you could probably get up to 40% of the vote here most of the time. But, it won't happen because our political landscape and history is different.
Conservative rule in perpetuity?
Occasional "re-inventions" to mark a change of direction but it's the same party always in power?
I'm not sure politics works that way - at some point the Conservatives will lose power and when that happens they will be the ones facing the existential crisis as they try to figure out how to do opposition to a new genuinely popular Government.
I'm reminded of how "effective" the Conservatives were in opposition from 1997-2005.
No, not least because the current Conservative coalition isn't static, tactical voting will develop, and, at some point, a new threat to the Tories right-flank will re-emerge.
Going too radical on climate change being the most obvious one.
The Tories are safe from the right. Johnson owns the populist right, the far right almost invariably goes down like a cup of cold sick in Britain, and there's no clamour for an economically dry alternative. Insofar as I can see, in those few areas where the Tories have suffered local Government reverses on their home turf in these elections, the main beneficiaries have been the Lib Dems.
I think ID cards, of some description, to vote while ok in theory seems disproportionate to the problems they are trying to address, but it's just lazy to label it as Republican tactics by Boris when some have been pushing this idea for bloody ages. I'd expect better from Iannuci than 'The bad man does something like the other people you don't like, so they are exactly the same' stuff.
If you believe they want ID cards to make elections fairer rather than more favourable to them you are slipping. Their rationale is the same as the Republicans on this issue, bend democracy to the Tories/Republicans at the cost of fairness.
Their motivation was not of primary interest to the point, though that I think it is disproportionate to the stated reasons to address specific problems makes it reasonable to doubt their motivation. However the main point was that they are capable of doing things poorly on their own initiative, not being Trumpian copycats, and Iannuci's take was just plain lazy.
On topic, I really enjoy GE nights and usually stay up or catch up when wakeful (as most nights). However if they decided it would be best to count next day, that seems fair enough.
From yesterday evening, I'm puzzled about the BBC breaking that embargo. Why would they do that? (Sorry if that's already been debated, I haven't had time to read right through the threads.)
Good evening, everyone.
Edited to change autocorrected word.
On topic, not bothering to count till the next day would just give us 15 hours of an exit poll being treated as the result, which doesn't feel that heallthy given the lack of discipline to do otherwise in the media
Thinking outside the box, you could alternatively extend voting until 10am the next day, and then start counting.
Spread the voting over 2 days, finishing at 1800 on the second at a civilised time such as 1700, to allow an evening count. It could all be wrapped up before midnight on Friday.
+1
If its over multiple days please can we have a weekend day included? The assumption is the young are too lazy to vote. Well it is a lot easier to be motivated to vote on a day you are not working all day.
Depressing that the government is using the high error rate in the London Mayor election not as evidence that the ballot paper is badly designed but as an excuse for putting a thumb on the scales.
LAB will be back in power in due course say GE2029. Led by someone we don't know.
In 1987 everyone said LAB wouldn't win again. No one had heard of Blair. 1997 super LAB!
Don't know who the new Blair is though! 👍
In 1997 Labour went into that an election with its iron grip on the Northern conurbations and the central belt of Scotland intact. When the Tories had to fight back from their near death experience, they still had their core territory in the wealthy Shires to build back from.
Labour now has more seats than John Major managed to save in '97, but Scottish Labour has been relegated to fringe status at Westminster, and Labour's remaining support outside the core cities and South Wales is decidedly moth-eaten. They also appear to suffer from increasingly inefficient voter distribution.
If Johnson succeeds in demolishing what's left of the Red Wall, then Labour could easily find itself down to about 160-170 seats. That would then leave Labour ground down to 1997 Tory levels, and that's before we consider the possibility of Scotland dropping off and taking its major potential confidence and supply partner along with it.
There are nearly fifty Labour-held marginals available on swings of less then 5%, the large majority of which are in the Midlands and the North of England. It would be fascinating, post-Hartlepool, to know exactly how many of those had Brexit Party votes in excess of Labour's majorities. A great many, one would suspect.
Labour really needs to get its act together soon if it wants to survive. If it gets caned again next time, then we'll be onto the fifth successive Tory-led Government, and one sitting on a landslide majority at that, and Labour will be toast.
Spot on. Labour's strongest seats now are mostly at extremes: Big Urban, Posh, Bame. Their seats that are on a spectrum (smaller urban, WWC, middling sorts) are the ones that are under attack or lost. They need 50-75 Ipswiches. And they need to identify the strategy which will invade the smarter southern territory that is turning anti-Tory, sharing the spoils with LD and Green, but not just splitting the vote.
Divided parties don't win elections. Labour has two sorts of division: its internal agony and the centre left now being split between Lab, LD, Gr and SNP.
Matt SIngh: The availability of election data in Britain really is a disgrace. It would not be difficult or expensive to have councils enter results data in to a common spreadsheet linked to a central database
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
There was a poll last week or so that showed a lot of Scots who favour independence also seem to believe that they will keep everything they like about the UK, so I'm not surprised in the different responses depending on the question. I think quite a lot of people see independence as a sort of devolution max, not becoming an entirely different state.
Which will be great fun if and when they discover the nature of their error.
The difference in polling between Yes/No and Remain/Leave probably is the product of voter stupidity, but it may also have something to do with reminding folk that the dissolution of the Union would be a full-on divorce.
Labour need to find a candidate from Yorkshire, from outside politics, without a Twitter feed to pick through for pro-remain Tweets, amongst other things.
A local business leader like Andy Street would be good.
Geoff Boycott?
A great choice if we're pivoting to "so unwoke we're comatose".
Lives in S Africa
I walked past Boycott in Leeds a couple of years ago. Caught his eye, smiled and nodded to him as I passed and the miserable old git stared right through me and blanked me totally. Definitely a Tory. (I jest, I jest, sorry Tories, only messing. Some of my best friends are Tories. Boycott’s definitely a Tory supporter though, I know that for sure.)
When I was a little kid, 1960s, I used to collect players' autographs at Headingley. Boycott always refused and was foul and dismissive, quite unpleasant to us little ones. The other foul one I remember was Derek Underwood - another Tory, I reckon. By contrast, Gary Sobers was lovely and always found to give us an autograph - a class act.
I woz there, Headingley 77, Ashes Test, his home ground, hot sun, bloke running on to give him a pint of John Smiths after he'd just knocked up his career 100th 100.
You just could not script it. Pure Yorkshire bliss.
Just for the (pedantic) record - surely Tetley's, not John Smith's, in Leeds?
Sorry, yes, memory going - Tetleys. It was Tetleys. With a good head on it.
Awful awful beer head or no head...
It’s not Stella.
Good night.
Thank goodness it wasn’t Stella. Geoffrey Boycott would never have made 100 100s on Stella. He would have been too busy pissing and swallowing Rennies. However, if he had been on Timothy Taylor Landlord it would have been 100 200s!
Yes, the people who would really benefit are the candidates and activists.
Polling day for me in London meant getting up at 5 am for an early morning delivery run which I’d start from 5.30, finish by 7.00 so I could leap in the car and make sure all the first tellers were in position (or alternatively do the first hour at one of them myself), then back to the committee room to set things up, make sure everything was under control and that people knew what they were doing. Time to snatch something for breakfast, then it was pretty much non stop rushing around, a mix of door knocking, delivery, organising and crisis management, through to close of poll at 10pm. The only bits of rest were spells of telling, when as the candidate you had to be smiling and chatting to those people who wanted to talk or ask questions on the way out.
Then a quick shower and change of clothes and it was off to the count. Usually the declarations wouldn’t come through until 3.00 or 4.00 am; by the time I got back from the count it was after a solid 24 hours of activity and exhaustion beckoned, although it was hard to get to sleep without checking the internet to see how friends and colleagues in other patches had done, and to catch the general news. It was incredibly tough.
The thing is, 99 times out of 100, without all that frantic ground game activity the result would be exactly the same.
Of course. I always said that election campaigning was remarkable for having such a huge ratio of effort to outcome. It did make a difference - I have enough anecdotes to prove that - but each person helping probably only shifted the result by a handful of votes. Trouble is, under our voting system, a handful of votes can be all the difference.
One of my favourite election day stories was of a Vet in St Andrews who worked a shift from 7 till just before 10pm. She was absolutely knackered but literally ran through the streets to get to her polling station at 10. She was an SNP supporter and they won by 1 vote.
Of course in some ways I wish she hadn't bothered but in other ways I think its just brilliant, what democracy is all about and a perfect answer to those who say why bother?
I remember in the election when we first captured my ward, we thought it could be close and I turned up at the door of a young couple who had said they would support us, 15 minutes before polls closed. They were having their dinner, and I had to plead with them that their votes could make the difference, offer them both a lift straight there and back, and promise that I could drive fast enough that their dinner wouldn’t be cold on return.
Sportingly, they agreed, and the deed was done. I went to the count confident that I had gone the extra mile and imagined us winning by two. To win the ward by over a thousand was embarrassing, so much so that I actually went back to their house at the weekend after to apologise in person. They were very decent about it and always voted for us thereafter.
That you went to that effort may be an indication of why you won by a thousand.
We certainly bust a gut, the whole campaign. But as someone said upthread, the result was surely in the bag before the campaign even started, and we’d have won if we’d taken the month off and gone on holiday. It’s the work before the election starts that really counts.
As they say in the trade: if you haven’t won before the bake-off, you haven’t won
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
Oxfordshire Tory collapse continues. LibDems have gained a few more and could even become the largest party at a pinch.
There are some very surprising gains in Oxfordshire.
The Labour and Green voteshare jump in Witney North and East is huge, which of course was David Cameron's seat.
Witney parliamentary constituency was Dave's seat, but that's not his county council division. His county council division is Charlbury & Wychwood, which the Lib Dems retained very comfortably. Still narrowly Conservative at district level though (Chadlington & Churchill).
(I cycle past the end of his road a couple of times a week!)
At the Oxfordshire count, the Returning Officer accidentally put the total number of votes for Labour to the Conservative candidate and the Conservative total to the Labour candidate. So they declared the Conservative elected while Labour actually won.
Now they need an election petition to correct the mistake.
The RO already got a job offer from Tower Hamlets to run the 2024 count
She might need it, given that she's also the CEO of Oxfordshire County Council, Labour are unsurprisingly out for her blood, and it looks plausible that Labour might be involved in the next administration...
This IS a pretty egregious error, but transposed numbers are nothing new. Especially after many hours of activity. And IF you'd do NOT get someone to double-check your work!
Here in WA State (and just about every state I know of) such errors & omissions are caught & corrected as part of the canvassing process. If that doesn't happen, then - generally speaking - the matter can be referred to a judge.
Had a case two cases in King County, many years ago, where a candidate was mistakenly certified as having met requirements to go on the primary ballot, where in fact he had not. Turned out that, even though election officials admitted the errors, the certification could NOT be rescinded. Sort of like the "letter of transit in "Casablanca!
The guy ended up losing the primary anyway. BUT his presence on the ballot almost certainly took votes away another candidate, who did NOT make the cut for the general election.
Those on here who are celebrating the death of the Labour Party have short memories or are young - or both. We've been here before.
In 1983, Thatcher destroyed the Labour Party, eating deep into its heartlands in the north, the midlands and London. It was absolutely rife for commentators to report that the Party had been taken over by "Hampstead intellectuals", as personified by its hapless leader, Michael Foot, and had lost, or abandoned, its working class roots. The Labour Party was dead and would never govern again, they said. 27.6% of the votes - a complete disaster, an existential crisis. And it was.
But the rest is history. Yes, it took a long time for the Party to reinvigorate itself. But I suspect overcoming Boris's undoubted political skills will be somewhat easier than it was to break through against Thatcherism, if only because the current PM and his cabal could implode quite quickly.
Can I just say that I do not celebrate the possible demise of labour
HMG needs a proper opposition and so does the country
Why does the Opposition have to come from Labour? If we can have a realignment amongst the electorate, then why not amongst their representatives as well? I know it hasn't happened for a long time - in England. But it can happen. Scotland demonstrates this.
I'd be delighted to see the back of the Labour Party. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
That is a fair point but labour will still exist in some form and I believe we will see the rise of the greens and the lib dems, so the opposition will be divided and not coherent
By implication you are arguing that Labour is currently united and coherent
On topic, I really enjoy GE nights and usually stay up or catch up when wakeful (as most nights). However if they decided it would be best to count next day, that seems fair enough.
From yesterday evening, I'm puzzled about the BBC breaking that embargo. Why would they do that? (Sorry if that's already been debated, I haven't had time to read right through the threads.)
Good evening, everyone.
Edited to change autocorrected word.
On topic, not bothering to count till the next day would just give us 15 hours of an exit poll being treated as the result, which doesn't feel that heallthy given the lack of discipline to do otherwise in the media
Thinking outside the box, you could alternatively extend voting until 10am the next day, and then start counting.
Spread the voting over 2 days, finishing at 1800 on the second at a civilised time such as 1700, to allow an evening count. It could all be wrapped up before midnight on Friday.
+1
If its over multiple days please can we have a weekend day included? The assumption is the young are too lazy to vote. Well it is a lot easier to be motivated to vote on a day you are not working all day.
IIRC in Italy they vote on Saturdays and Sundays, with voting ending at about 6pm on the Sunday.
On topic, I really enjoy GE nights and usually stay up or catch up when wakeful (as most nights). However if they decided it would be best to count next day, that seems fair enough.
From yesterday evening, I'm puzzled about the BBC breaking that embargo. Why would they do that? (Sorry if that's already been debated, I haven't had time to read right through the threads.)
Good evening, everyone.
Edited to change autocorrected word.
On topic, not bothering to count till the next day would just give us 15 hours of an exit poll being treated as the result, which doesn't feel that heallthy given the lack of discipline to do otherwise in the media
Thinking outside the box, you could alternatively extend voting until 10am the next day, and then start counting.
Spread the voting over 2 days, finishing at 1800 on the second at a civilised time such as 1700, to allow an evening count. It could all be wrapped up before midnight on Friday.
+1
If its over multiple days please can we have a weekend day included? The assumption is the young are too lazy to vote. Well it is a lot easier to be motivated to vote on a day you are not working all day.
You beat me to it. Shifting the vote to finishing at 5pm or 6pm over two days would be manna from Heaven for the Tories. It would stack on-the-day turnout in favour of those who don't work, the principle segment of whom are the retired. A couple of dozen extra seats for the Grey Party.
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
There was a poll last week or so that showed a lot of Scots who favour independence also seem to believe that they will keep everything they like about the UK, so I'm not surprised in the different responses depending on the question. I think quite a lot of people see independence as a sort of devolution max, not becoming an entirely different state.
Conversely, those of us in England who'd love to get rid of them are fully aware of how much they'd lose. Both the freebies they currently get, and some things they consider their own (financial services) which are parked there only as long as they're sponging off England.
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
At risk of spoiling their fun: the SNP did not win a mandate for a second referendum on Thursday. As I have argued before, it is impossible to obtain a mandate for the exercise of reserved powers at an election to a devolved parliament. Sure, both the SNP and Green manifestos promised to pursue another vote. Each also pledged to see the UK’s nuclear submarines removed from Scottish waters. Is Westminster expected to accord this ‘mandate’ the same deference as that on independence? You might say a referendum is different because it specifies a mechanism for determining an outcome rather than expressing a point of principle, but if that is the case then the SNP and Greens need only pledge a referendum on booting Trident out of Faslane in their next manifestos to activate the same principle.
Nicola needs to keep this completely true argument in the back of her mind. The day might come when she needs to rely on the unvarnished truth that Ref2 is not in her gift, or even in Boris's, but is for the UK parliament as a whole. For the very good reason that more than Scottish interests are at stake.
I see the Burning Pink party achieved the honour of the wooden spoon candidate in the London Mayoral election.
Apparently they are a split from Extinction Rebellion who want to replace the government with citizen's assemblies - I wonder how anarchists who want to replace government woth citizen's assemblies think when they the actual citizens, despite being pretty cynical about government, place you dead last well behind joke candidates, conspiracy theorists, youtubers, far right zombie parties and single issue parties.
I know not everyone can be Count Binface, alas, but it'd be a humbling experience.
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
How the Electoral Commission may insist the question is put:
That'll be confusing after years of the SNP saying all true Scotsmen are for Remain
Is it just me or is someone who answers this question differently from Should Scotland be an independent country: Yes or no, simply demonstrating that they are too stupid to be allowed a vote at all? Indeed how the hell do they get dressed in the morning?
It’s human nature to favour positive action (“yes”) while eschewing risk (“remain”)
🚨🌹 | NEW: A senior Labour figure told a meeting with the leader’s office that Angela Rayner was “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to Hartlepool. She was wearing leopard-print trousers, heavy-duty stomper boots and a hoodie
I see the Burning Pink party achieved the honour of the wooden spoon candidate in the London Mayoral election.
Apparently they are a split from Extinction Rebellion who want to replace the government with citizen's assemblies - I wonder how anarchists who want to replace government woth citizen's assemblies think when they the actual citizens, despite being pretty cynical about government, place you dead last well behind joke candidates, conspiracy theorists, youtubers, far right zombie parties and single issue parties.
I know not everyone can be Count Binface, alas, but it'd be a humbling experience.
They look to have got a lower percentage of the vote than the Hartlepool sex offender.
Comments
Then, my daughter would love it and watch it perpetually.
Starmer should learn from May that they go for your advisors first and if you give them up, they come for you next.
😂😂
Predict steady as she goes, and lots of theatricals.
Try and be like Nick Palmer, Jonathan or Gallowgate. They support Labour, but are at least interesting to read.
https://twitter.com/JohnFerry18/status/1391305075533008896?s=20
I'll ignore you from here - and you can do the same should you wish. Have a lovely life Casino
The fact that the Tories love having Labour as their only credible opponents is the clue.
Also because the Scots were being ruled by Tories with no democratic mandate in Scotland itself. The problem in particular was that the Scottish legal system, education system, and so on, were being determined solely by Westminster, without any regard to what the natives wanted (other than the minority of Scottish Tories). It was the poll tax that really rubbed in the colonial nature of that relationship, and led ultimately to Blairite devolution.
Via @guardian
I am always uneasy about men (in particular) commenting on women’s clothes. There are far too many opportunities for misunderstanding. As well as, it seems a bit sexist (it’s much rarer for men to be criticised, although I do remember William Hague’s infamous baseball cap).
This was all tested in 2012-3 and nobody complained then.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-snp-has-no-mandate-for-a-second-referendum
The amusing part was of course that Corbyn took his advice...
Will I get it wrong from time to time? Sure I will, we all do, but I know my shit and am worth listening to.
You just don't want to hear it.
I expect all my politicians to be in three piece suits at all times.
Good night.
Was just re-reading "The Blue Nile" by Alan Moorehead, a true classic. In which the author describes the strange background, wretched course and sad conclusion of the rise and fall of the Emperor Theodore (Tewodros) of Abyssinia > Ethiopia (1818-68). And his quixotic but very serious war with the British Empire.
Theodore was a self-made monarch, initially well-disposed to the British. So much so that he wrote a very nice, suitably regal letter to his opposite number, Queen Victoria:
"In the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, one God in Trinity, chosen by God, King of Kings, Theodore of Ethiopia, to her Majesty, Victoria Queen of England.
I hope that your Majesty is in good health. By the power of God I am well. My fathers, the Emperors, having forgotten the Creator, He handed over their Kingdom to the Gallas and the Turks. But God created me, lifted me out of the dust, and restored this Empire to my rule. He endowed me with power and enabled me to stand in the place of my fathers. By this power I drove away the Gallas. As for the Turks I have told them to leave the land of my ancestors. They refuse. I am now going to wrestle with them
Mr Plowden and my late Grand Chamberlain, the Englishman Bell, used to tell me that there is a great Christian Queen, who loves all Christians. When they said this to me: 'We are able to make you known to her and to establish friendship between you,' then in those times I was very glad. I gave them my love, thinking that I had found your Majesty's good will."
After explaining that enemies had killed both Plowden and Bell before they could connect the two monarchs, and the difficulties in communication between Ethiopia and England, Theodore ended his missive as follows:
"I fear that if I send ambassadors with presents of amity by [British] Consul Cameron, they may be arrested by the Turks. And now I wish that you may arrange for the safe passage of my ambassadors everywhere on the road. I wish to have an answer to this letter by Consul Cameron, and that he may conduct my Embassy to England. See how Islam oppresses the Christian."
A respectful, albeit self-serving letter from a savvy if rather unpredictable ruler, who saw himself as the descendant (in spirit anyway) of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.
AND what did the Foreign Office do when the letter, after months of hard travel & daring do, finally reached Whitehall?
Some functionary read the translation, had a chuckle, stuck it in a file cabinet - and forgot about it.
When Theodore finally realized that there was NO RESPONSE WHATEVER, from the "great Christian Queen" he was MOST unhappy, to put it most mildly.
The result was war. A most unnecessary, pointless, costly war, for Britain, Ethiopia and Theodore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Expedition_to_Abyssinia
I really don't understand this. The choices are some form of lockdown, or be like india. Even if that's not true the governments of all sane western nations have acted as if it were true, including the other UK home nations (and sks). Pop psy nonsense about the mythical Stockholm Syndrome does not alter this reality.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c1v20ym0z2dt/derby-city-council
https://www.derby.gov.uk/council-and-democracy/councillors-democracy-elections/elections/election-results/local-election-results/results-2021/
Pots and kettles, Casino?
Am also sporting a "fascinator", gold-tipped walking stick and "Baby on Board" T-shirt (am a little short for my weight, by say 1' 6").
Labour now has more seats than John Major managed to save in '97, but Scottish Labour has been relegated to fringe status at Westminster, and Labour's remaining support outside the core cities and South Wales is decidedly moth-eaten. They also appear to suffer from increasingly inefficient voter distribution.
If Johnson succeeds in demolishing what's left of the Red Wall, then Labour could easily find itself down to about 160-170 seats. That would then leave Labour ground down to 1997 Tory levels, and that's before we consider the possibility of Scotland dropping off and taking its major potential confidence and supply partner along with it.
There are nearly fifty Labour-held marginals available on swings of less then 5%, the large majority of which are in the Midlands and the North of England. It would be fascinating, post-Hartlepool, to know exactly how many of those had Brexit Party votes in excess of Labour's majorities. A great many, one would suspect.
Labour really needs to get its act together soon if it wants to survive. If it gets caned again next time, then we'll be onto the fifth successive Tory-led Government, and one sitting on a landslide majority at that, and Labour will be toast.
Matt SIngh: The availability of election data in Britain really is a disgrace. It would not be difficult or expensive to have councils enter results data in to a common spreadsheet linked to a central database
https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1391472843989426177
As with the London Mayor ballot paper I've been complaining about for the past couple of days, the real problem is not voters misunderstanding the question, it is that the intelligentsia does not realise that apparently trivial things matter.
"Starmer has gone for fire and rehire"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0uU-5lWYAcWqNF?format=jpg&name=large
Divided parties don't win elections. Labour has two sorts of division: its internal agony and the centre left now being split between Lab, LD, Gr and SNP.
The difference in polling between Yes/No and Remain/Leave probably is the product of voter stupidity, but it may also have something to do with reminding folk that the dissolution of the Union would be a full-on divorce.
Here in WA State (and just about every state I know of) such errors & omissions are caught & corrected as part of the canvassing process. If that doesn't happen, then - generally speaking - the matter can be referred to a judge.
Had a case two cases in King County, many years ago, where a candidate was mistakenly certified as having met requirements to go on the primary ballot, where in fact he had not. Turned out that, even though election officials admitted the errors, the certification could NOT be rescinded. Sort of like the "letter of transit in "Casablanca!
The guy ended up losing the primary anyway. BUT his presence on the ballot almost certainly took votes away another candidate, who did NOT make the cut for the general election.
Apparently they are a split from Extinction Rebellion who want to replace the government with citizen's assemblies - I wonder how anarchists who want to replace government woth citizen's assemblies think when they the actual citizens, despite being pretty cynical about government, place you dead last well behind joke candidates, conspiracy theorists, youtubers, far right zombie parties and single issue parties.
I know not everyone can be Count Binface, alas, but it'd be a humbling experience.
Boring Keir in his dark suit and white shirt just cannot compete. That is why she has to go...