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After a disappointing set of results for LAB one figure appears to have bucked the trend – political

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  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,683
    Binface 19216 with 3 left - Next one to declare should take us over 20K!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,808

    Patrick Maguire
    @patrickkmaguire
    ·
    4m
    Angela Rayner has been sacked as chairman of the Labour Party, source confirms

    Even I as a Tory think that's totally f-ing stupid. She's not the problem.

    What's wrong with him?
    But not as Deputy Leader?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594

    Patrick Maguire
    @patrickkmaguire
    ·
    4m
    Angela Rayner has been sacked as chairman of the Labour Party, source confirms

    Even I as a Tory think that's totally f-ing stupid. She's not the problem.

    What's wrong with him?
    She was quoted in Guardian iirc saying he did not listen to her campaign theme advise to talk about jobs.

    Sacking her seems a bit Joffrey as a response.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,887
    Letter from the PM to Sturgeon.


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    HYUFD said:

    Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

    I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
    Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

    Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
    52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015
    Counting not finished.
  • FossFoss Posts: 437
    She’s also national campaign coordinator.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,887
    Hooray, I've got back control of my account.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,630
    edited May 8
    Round 2 for West Midlands PCC

    Foster (Lab) 301,406 - 53.7%
    Singh Sohal (Con) 259,839 - 46.3%

    Anyway, why do West Midlands have a PCC and is not combined with Metro Mayor?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,694

    Patrick Maguire
    @patrickkmaguire
    ·
    4m
    Angela Rayner has been sacked as chairman of the Labour Party, source confirms

    Even I as a Tory think that's totally f-ing stupid. She's not the problem.

    What's wrong with him?
    I wonder whether Labour thinks London might be at risk.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,372
    Whether Labour knows how to win Manchester is very much of the same importance as whether the Tories know how to win South Holland. And if Burnham had got 99.5% of the vote Labour's problem would be unchanged.

    More significant are other questions. Would he have won Hartlepool? Would he be willing to stand in such a seat? Does he know how to begin winning 125 extra seats, nearly all in England?

    The Tories can win without the big cities voting for them. Can Labour win without a winning level of seats in middle England?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    tlg86 said:
    Starmer.

    He doesn't have the power to sack her as depute.
    Reckless of him to remove her from the SC, if that’s what he’s done. She is one of the few members of the PLP with a profile comparable to his own.

    Shadow Home Secretary might have been a better bet.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    Utterly ridiculous - Starmer is probably hastening his own fall here:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1391084949156114433?s=20
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,062

    Binface 19216 with 3 left - Next one to declare should take us over 20K!

    I confidently predict .... 19,999.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,721

    He's a definite lay as next Labour in the short term at least.

    He's not an MP, his tenure as Health Secretary is one of this things can be ruthlessly exploited.

    On the plus side, like Burgon he read English at Cambridge.

    Andy Burnham does have some baggage. But who doesn't.

    Prime example is . . . wait for it . . . Boris Johnson. Who carries his in steamer trunks transported by a fleet of semi-trailers (or articulated lorries if you prefer).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,013
    The idea that Keir Starmer is responsible for Labour’s struggles this week is debatable. The idea Angela Rayner is ... well it’s basically ridiculous. Will be interesting to see how that one plays out.

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1391091299596578816?s=20
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    Patrick Maguire
    @patrickkmaguire
    ·
    4m
    Angela Rayner has been sacked as chairman of the Labour Party, source confirms

    Even I as a Tory think that's totally f-ing stupid. She's not the problem.

    What's wrong with him?
    I reported a few days ago my Labour sources from up very high that Rayner was on manuevers. On what planet does it make sense to sack the deputy leader? If she's launched a putsch against you!
    I don’t think she’s spoken yet has she? This seems unlikely to keep her onside.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,828
    edited May 8
    Now I'm even more baffled as to the political wisdom of this than when he expelled Corbyn.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 4,844
    So according to the BBC the SNP 'have won the Scottish election but without a majority'. Meanwhile in Wales where Labour got 50% of seats (which the SNP didn't manage) they have merely retained control. Enough of this bias. In no other UK election would getting less than 50% of the seats be considered winning. It may seem like a small point but it isn't. The SNP is clearly going to use this result as a mandate for an independence referendum. We know that conservative and labour politicians will claim to winning Westminster elections when they are short of a majority. A result the BBC would describe as a hung parliament. A council without a majority for any party would be described as under no overall control.

    I never believed I would become one of those sad people who complain to the BBC but enough is enough. Sort it out auntie!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Can people talk me through why everyone is asusming the SNP will lose all 3 South of Scotland List seats?

    Am I missing something. I've run the numbers and no matter what the scenario the SNP get the last List seat. Which would take them to 64 seat overall.

    But everyone is saying they will get 63 seats.

    Regardless, that will still be short of the 65 needed for a majority
    Hello monomaniacal person. This has massive betting implications for the seat band market. SNP are current @3 for 64-65 seats and I got @5 an hour or so ago.

    This seems like free money so much that I feel I must be missing something.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    edited May 8

    Letter from the PM to Sturgeon.


    Hmm, he's got an atrocious record in actually arranging and attending meetings with the leaders of the three other nations in the UK. I wonder who's twisting his arm?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,822

    DavidL said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DavidL said:

    I think that the thread header is a little harsh on Drakeford who has done exceptionally well in Wales and of course the new Labour Mayor of the West of England.

    Its SKS that has been a complete failure. Difficult circumstances, Covid and all that, but a poor performance with no policies, no vision, no obvious direction other than hoping that the juggernaut that has just rolled over the top of him might veer off course at some point.

    He is SO BORING. I have just realised what is wrong with the taking the knee photograph, whatever your views on knee taking: it's in an empty characterless badly furnished boardroom. Could they not have popped out to the Mandela statue in Parliament Square?
    Yesterdays we must connect with the public interview from his Westminster office with a shelf full of boring books the only other thing in shot....cut to Boris in Hartlepool with his blimp.
    Boris and his Blimp was on the front of most every paper today. Just fucking genius.

    I would hate to have him as an opponent.
    No, no, he's just lucky. Everyone says so.
    It is amazing that people still underestimate him and/or have moved on to the “he will get found out eventually” strategy. Sounds just like how people used to talk about Blair.
    Blair, in a way, did get ‘found out’ tbf. He’s one of the most disliked political figures in this country, despite being very popular in the first two terms of his premiership.

    Boris being liked now doesn’t mean he’ll be looked upon as a great PM in ten years time. Gordon Brown was a hugely lauded Chancellor for a decade before becoming one of the most unpopular PMs we’ve ever had.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 570
    The Scottish voting system is really bizarre. The SNP get penalized for winning constituency seats whilst the also runs scoop up loads of regional list seats even though the SNP topped the regional list vote .

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    The sarcasm just drips from that letter, doesn’t it?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,549
    Operation Scapegoat Working Class Women

    SKS really is the pits
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,013
    Another ethnic minority MSP:


  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,035

    Hooray, I've got back control of my account.

    Embargotastic
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,328
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:
    Starmer.

    He doesn't have the power to sack her as depute.
    Reckless of him to remove her from the SC, if that’s what he’s done. She is one of the few members of the PLP with a profile comparable to his own.

    Shadow Home Secretary might have been a better bet.
    Here's a question no-one on here will be able to answer without googling. Who is the shadow home secretary?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,808
    edited May 8

    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    8m
    Keir Starmer is sacking Angela Rayner as party chair as part of his new strategy, Operation Scapegoat Working Class Women For The Abject Failures Of Keir Starmer

    And a couple of hours ago we all thought @Jonesboy he had improved...

    Do we know who the new Chair is yet? Or whether Rayner will keep the Deputy Leader position?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    Operation Scapegoat Working Class Women

    SKS really is the pits

    Are you Chatham her up?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,834
    Carnyx said:



    Letter from the PM to Sturgeon.


    Hmm, he's got an atrocious record in actually arranging and attending meetings with the leaders of the three other nations in the UK. I wonder who's twisting his arm?
    It's love-bombing. Politically it's exactly the right strategy, and I have been recommending it for some time.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    eek said:

    On the downside, my career is probably FUBAR'ed as Labour won CPCA and will now sh*t on my parade.

    Oh well. There is beer.

    I thought you were still working on HS2? Did you move to the Cambridgeshire Metro?
    No, I was on Crossrail - I moved off that over 18 months ago. Been on Cambridgeshire Metro for one month - and it wasn't easy to win that - and it's a fascinating and exciting project!

    It could be the future of transport across the UK in the regions, a metro system (AI and autonomous) that runs on rubber wheels on the road but feels like a light-rail system - there's even an option of a personal "pod" that's basically your own private vehicle on a public transport system. Order it from your phone, scan your phone to get in, synch your music and enjoy:

    https://cam-metro.co.uk/conceptual-designs/
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719
    Happier times:


  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    And that's all the money gone. Wish I had put on more.

    You are welcome PB.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,782
    Batley & Spen aggregate council votes (Birstall scaled down for 2 election ward).

    Lab: 11410
    Con: 11450

    A LD held ward would probably mean Labour's relative figure here is underweight by around 1000 in reality.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
    MattW said:

    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    8m
    Keir Starmer is sacking Angela Rayner as party chair as part of his new strategy, Operation Scapegoat Working Class Women For The Abject Failures Of Keir Starmer

    And a couple of hours ago we all thought he had improved...

    Do we know who the new Chair is yet? Or whether Rayner will keep the Deputy Leader position?
    Deputy is elected. Nothing he can do about that.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,062
    Alistair said:

    Can people talk me through why everyone is asusming the SNP will lose all 3 South of Scotland List seats?

    Am I missing something. I've run the numbers and no matter what the scenario the SNP get the last List seat. Which would take them to 64 seat overall.

    But everyone is saying they will get 63 seats.

    @Alistair That's a great shout, judging by the way BF markets have moved following your post - part of it due - ahem - to me.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972

    Patrick Maguire
    @patrickkmaguire
    ·
    4m
    Angela Rayner has been sacked as chairman of the Labour Party, source confirms

    Even I as a Tory think that's totally f-ing stupid. She's not the problem.

    What's wrong with him?
    I reported a few days ago my Labour sources from up very high that Rayner was on manuevers. On what planet does it make sense to sack the deputy leader? If she's launched a putsch against you!
    Maybe. But Keir is mismanaging the politics here.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
    Chameleon said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:
    Starmer.

    He doesn't have the power to sack her as depute.
    Reckless of him to remove her from the SC, if that’s what he’s done. She is one of the few members of the PLP with a profile comparable to his own.

    Shadow Home Secretary might have been a better bet.
    Here's a question no-one on here will be able to answer without googling. Who is the shadow home secretary?
    Nick something.

    Completely utterly anonymous.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Chameleon said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:
    Starmer.

    He doesn't have the power to sack her as depute.
    Reckless of him to remove her from the SC, if that’s what he’s done. She is one of the few members of the PLP with a profile comparable to his own.

    Shadow Home Secretary might have been a better bet.
    Here's a question no-one on here will be able to answer without googling. Who is the shadow home secretary?
    Professor Nick Thomas Symonds.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,013
    I'm sure she'll get round to congratulating Sandesh too, in due course:


  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095
    So NE region confirmed. LD -1, Greens +1. Thats a switch from a unionist MSP to an independence MSP for the likes of HYUFD who are hard of thinking.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594

    Now I'm even more baffled as to the political wisdom of this than when he expelled Corbyn.

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    31s
    Sacking Angela Rayner is just daft. And raises serious questions about whether Keir Starmer actually understands politics.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,822
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once David Miliband was defeated by his brother in 2010, Burnham was the only potential Labour leadership contender as a Tory I really feared and still do.

    Centrist in Labour terms, not fanatically anti Brexit and respecting the Leave vote despite having backed Remain, charismatic and Northern rather than London he ticks all the boxes Labour need

    What about Jess Phillips, quite a few on the labour right seem to think the Tories would quake in their boots at the thought of facing her.
    Burnham would be an infinitely better choice for Labour than Phillips. Labour Party would probably split if she became leader.
    Given that Labour needs to rid itself of the left wing elements with their own agendas where is the problem in encouraging them to leave earlier?
    I don’t think Labour needs to get rid of the left, any more than they need to purge all centrists or whatever.

    Each side won’t win a GE without the other.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,358

    Patrick Maguire
    @patrickkmaguire
    ·
    4m
    Angela Rayner has been sacked as chairman of the Labour Party, source confirms

    Should't SKS at least wait until all the results are in before the sacking's commence?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,013
    A selection of tweets:


  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    DavidL said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DavidL said:

    I think that the thread header is a little harsh on Drakeford who has done exceptionally well in Wales and of course the new Labour Mayor of the West of England.

    Its SKS that has been a complete failure. Difficult circumstances, Covid and all that, but a poor performance with no policies, no vision, no obvious direction other than hoping that the juggernaut that has just rolled over the top of him might veer off course at some point.

    He is SO BORING. I have just realised what is wrong with the taking the knee photograph, whatever your views on knee taking: it's in an empty characterless badly furnished boardroom. Could they not have popped out to the Mandela statue in Parliament Square?
    Yesterdays we must connect with the public interview from his Westminster office with a shelf full of boring books the only other thing in shot....cut to Boris in Hartlepool with his blimp.
    Boris and his Blimp was on the front of most every paper today. Just fucking genius.

    I would hate to have him as an opponent.
    No, no, he's just lucky. Everyone says so.
    It is amazing that people still underestimate him and/or have moved on to the “he will get found out eventually” strategy. Sounds just like how people used to talk about Blair.
    Blair, in a way, did get ‘found out’ tbf. He’s one of the most disliked political figures in this country, despite being very popular in the first two terms of his premiership.

    Boris being liked now doesn’t mean he’ll be looked upon as a great PM in ten years time. Gordon Brown was a hugely lauded Chancellor for a decade before becoming one of the most unpopular PMs we’ve ever had.
    Who said anything about being looked upon as a great PM? I’m just referring to winning elections in the here and now, and his critics not understanding it’s not luck.

    As an aside I do think he’s already carved out his place as a consequential PM, but then so did Eden.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    edited May 8

    Time to get rid of this sleazy bunch of unelected benefit scroungers.

    Prince Michael of Kent ‘selling access’ to the Putinistas

    With Russia-UK relations at a nadir, an undercover investigation reveals the murky business dealings of the Queen’s ‘unofficial ambassador’ to a pariah state

    The Zoom call began just after 10am. The bearded face on the computer screen from Kensington Palace was His Royal Highness Prince Michael of Kent and on the cream sofa in Cirencester was his close friend and business associate the Marquess of Reading.

    Making up the quartet on the screen were two executives from a South Korean company that was seeking to hire the prince to help its gold investment business. What the prince and the marquess didn’t know was that the executives were undercover reporters.

    They were investigating allegations that the Queen’s cousin and the marquess were secretly trading on their links to the notorious Russian regime of President Putin, regarded as the No 1 threat to Britain’s national security.

    As the Zoom meeting began, the prince took the lead. He said he would be “very excited” to work with the company, called House of Haedong, which was seeking contacts in the Kremlin to further its business in Russia.

    The prince assured them that his long-standing connection to the country “could bring some benefit” and drew their attention to the fact that the Russian presidency had bestowed on him the Order of Friendship, one of the Kremlin’s most prestigious awards. He added encouragingly: “I have never had any close connection before with gold and the idea makes me very happy.”

    Earlier his private secretary had told the reporters that the prince could make introductions to people high up in the Russian government. “We can certainly help in that sense,” she said. “Even if he doesn’t have direct contact to the person that you want, there is a way in. There is always a way in.”

    When the prince left the call, the marquess stayed on the line with the South Korean company’s representatives and began to outline the type of service he said that he and the prince could offer in Russia.

    According to the marquess, the prince had a de facto role as “Her Majesty’s unofficial ambassador to Russia” and was able to meet with Putin. The prince’s “confidential” access to the Kremlin, the marquess said, had remained intact despite the numerous outrages committed by Putin’s regime.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-michael-of-kent-selling-access-to-the-putinistas-gbb99pcx6

    EIGHT paragraphs just cut and pasted. Breaking your own rules. Not good


    You'll have a visit from the Times lawyers again
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,549
    Keir Starmer asked for concrete policy changes Labour will now make in response to these election results, tells the BBC that he will "change the things that need changing and that is the change that I will bring about."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
    Unless Starmer has some reason we don't know. Like some seriously bloody behind the scenes plotting or whatever, then this seems utterly bonkers.

    "I get it. We will change. We are not connecting with those Red Wall seats in our heartlands..."

    "... so, today, I am sacking the only leadership figure who sounds and acts like she has ever been in a Red Wall seat"
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    A selection of tweets:


    Tories surging, Labour purging...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    It was absolutely bizarre.

    This morning "if the SNP win West Aberdeenshire they will get 65 seats"
    This afternoon
    "they will get 63 seats"
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,767

    Patrick Maguire
    @patrickkmaguire
    ·
    4m
    Angela Rayner has been sacked as chairman of the Labour Party, source confirms

    Even I as a Tory think that's totally f-ing stupid. She's not the problem.

    What's wrong with him?
    This does seem totally tone death

    Unless she’s on manoeuvres and it’s a preemptive move..
    My guess is pure hissy fit after a shouting match. This cannot be planned.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594

    Keir Starmer asked for concrete policy changes Labour will now make in response to these election results, tells the BBC that he will "change the things that need changing and that is the change that I will bring about."

    The change will be "him gone this summer" must be shooting up the probability index after sacking Rayner.
  • pingping Posts: 1,415
    Labour win wm pcc
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,822

    The idea that Keir Starmer is responsible for Labour’s struggles this week is debatable. The idea Angela Rayner is ... well it’s basically ridiculous. Will be interesting to see how that one plays out.

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1391091299596578816?s=20

    Ok, that’s it. I’ve been going off Starmer for the last few months, but this move is so bad that I’ve definitely have no hope for him as a half decent leader whatsoever.

    This man is useless, and is a complete loser for Labour. Might even get a worse result for Labour than 2019.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,118
    edited May 8
    I thought if nothing else Starmer was supposed to be a serious politician who knew how to do process of politics?
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 15,214
    Keir is gunning for the left and wants a public fight
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Who would you make Labour chair? Who has the best chance of reconnecting to the lost voters?

    Could he persuade Alan Johnson out of retirement?

    Failing that...well, who?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,828

    Now I'm even more baffled as to the political wisdom of this than when he expelled Corbyn.

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    31s
    Sacking Angela Rayner is just daft. And raises serious questions about whether Keir Starmer actually understands politics.
    On a rare occasion I agree with Dan Hodges. Frankly bafflng.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    MattW said:

    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    8m
    Keir Starmer is sacking Angela Rayner as party chair as part of his new strategy, Operation Scapegoat Working Class Women For The Abject Failures Of Keir Starmer

    And a couple of hours ago we all thought @Jonesboy he had improved...

    Do we know who the new Chair is yet? Or whether Rayner will keep the Deputy Leader position?
    Nah, he’s a dick. Broken clock syndrome.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308

    Now I'm even more baffled as to the political wisdom of this than when he expelled Corbyn.

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    31s
    Sacking Angela Rayner is just daft. And raises serious questions about whether Keir Starmer actually understands politics.
    He's sacked Rayner !!!!

    Really, Starmer should resign not sack Rayner
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,549
    Chameleon said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:
    Starmer.

    He doesn't have the power to sack her as depute.
    Reckless of him to remove her from the SC, if that’s what he’s done. She is one of the few members of the PLP with a profile comparable to his own.

    Shadow Home Secretary might have been a better bet.
    Here's a question no-one on here will be able to answer without googling. Who is the shadow home secretary?
    He was on the Radio this morning

    Literally the first time I have heard him speak

    Said he was a long time friend of SKS
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480
    ydoethur said:

    Who would you make Labour chair? Who has the best chance of reconnecting to the lost voters?

    Could he persuade Alan Johnson out of retirement?

    Failing that...well, who?

    Lord Mandelson for the LOLs! That would really send the Corbynites beserk
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095

    Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

    I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
    Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

    Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
    Hmm. I think part of the issue was the narrative hyping up an SNP majority, the “both votes snp” strategy. I didn’t expect pro unionist parties to get a higher % of vote share overall.

    Hence the the stalemate..
    There is no stalemate. Various parties have a manifesto pledge to independence, and for the first time since the 2011 parliament we have a majority of MSPs for it. And a record number of MSPs for independence.
    We’re pretty much where we were in 2016.

    How is Sturgeon going to get the vote?
    How are we where we were in 2016? The Greens were not pro-indy in 2016. They ARE pro-indy in 2021 and they are going from 6 seats to 9 seats.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,118

    Keir Starmer asked for concrete policy changes Labour will now make in response to these election results, tells the BBC that he will "change the things that need changing and that is the change that I will bring about."

    The change will be "him gone this summer" must be shooting up the probability index after sacking Rayner.
    Back to running whitbury leisure centre....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,753
    "@ShippersUnbound
    It is a novel approach to a political fightback to piss off the one person you can't actually sack, who is also more likely to appeal to the people who want you gone"


    https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1391094252772409346
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,118
    ydoethur said:

    Who would you make Labour chair? Who has the best chance of reconnecting to the lost voters?

    Could he persuade Alan Johnson out of retirement?

    Failing that...well, who?

    Binface ?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,549

    Jessica Elgot
    @jessicaelgot
    Labour MPs pretty gobsmacked at apparent move to pin blame for elections at Angela Rayner - astonishment across the board from left to right
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,822

    DavidL said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DavidL said:

    I think that the thread header is a little harsh on Drakeford who has done exceptionally well in Wales and of course the new Labour Mayor of the West of England.

    Its SKS that has been a complete failure. Difficult circumstances, Covid and all that, but a poor performance with no policies, no vision, no obvious direction other than hoping that the juggernaut that has just rolled over the top of him might veer off course at some point.

    He is SO BORING. I have just realised what is wrong with the taking the knee photograph, whatever your views on knee taking: it's in an empty characterless badly furnished boardroom. Could they not have popped out to the Mandela statue in Parliament Square?
    Yesterdays we must connect with the public interview from his Westminster office with a shelf full of boring books the only other thing in shot....cut to Boris in Hartlepool with his blimp.
    Boris and his Blimp was on the front of most every paper today. Just fucking genius.

    I would hate to have him as an opponent.
    No, no, he's just lucky. Everyone says so.
    It is amazing that people still underestimate him and/or have moved on to the “he will get found out eventually” strategy. Sounds just like how people used to talk about Blair.
    Blair, in a way, did get ‘found out’ tbf. He’s one of the most disliked political figures in this country, despite being very popular in the first two terms of his premiership.

    Boris being liked now doesn’t mean he’ll be looked upon as a great PM in ten years time. Gordon Brown was a hugely lauded Chancellor for a decade before becoming one of the most unpopular PMs we’ve ever had.
    Who said anything about being looked upon as a great PM? I’m just referring to winning elections in the here and now, and his critics not understanding it’s not luck.

    As an aside I do think he’s already carved out his place as a consequential PM, but then so did Eden.
    Ah, my bad. Apologies for misunderstanding!

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    ydoethur said:

    Who would you make Labour chair? Who has the best chance of reconnecting to the lost voters?

    Could he persuade Alan Johnson out of retirement?

    Failing that...well, who?

    Binface ?
    They’ve already got loads of rubbish in the shadow cabinet, they don’t need another one.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480
    edited May 8

    Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

    I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
    Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

    Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
    Hmm. I think part of the issue was the narrative hyping up an SNP majority, the “both votes snp” strategy. I didn’t expect pro unionist parties to get a higher % of vote share overall.

    Hence the the stalemate..
    There is no stalemate. Various parties have a manifesto pledge to independence, and for the first time since the 2011 parliament we have a majority of MSPs for it. And a record number of MSPs for independence.
    We’re pretty much where we were in 2016.

    How is Sturgeon going to get the vote?
    How are we where we were in 2016? The Greens were not pro-indy in 2016. They ARE pro-indy in 2021 and they are going from 6 seats to 9 seats.
    The Greens were pro indy in 2016 too and Unionist parties have still won more votes than Nationalist parties.

    Nothing has changed, the SNP will stay in power with all the perks but no majority and without Alba pushing them to UDI, an SNP MSP has even now said they can wait a decade for a legal indyref2 which suits Boris fine

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-election-2021-results-snp-msp-says-not-the-end-of-world-if-referendum-takes-another-decade-3229522
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,013

    Letter from the PM to Sturgeon.


    I'm sure she can't wait.....
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    Now I'm even more baffled as to the political wisdom of this than when he expelled Corbyn.

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    31s
    Sacking Angela Rayner is just daft. And raises serious questions about whether Keir Starmer actually understands politics.
    He's sacked Rayner !!!!

    Really, Starmer should resign not sack Rayner
    Lol she is an empty vessel.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,822

    Keir is gunning for the left and wants a public fight

    LOL Rayner is soft left, she’s not Cat Smith or Richard Burgon 🤣
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,721
    Working theories:

    > Conservatives did NOT really want to elect the next Mayor of Greater (or Lesser) London. Because they'd rather campaign AGAINST the Great Wen, or rather the Great Woke. Thus they picked the best candidate NOT.

    > Scottish National Party, or at least the Queen Fish, did NOT really want to end up with a majority of seats, or a majority of votes, unless it was a totally slam-dunk majority which was NOT gonna happen. Because the chances they would lose an Indy2 vote near-term are much too great. Much better to remain the #1 party and stay in power north of the Border, then work to engineer things to put the onus of Boris Johnson, the Tories and Westminster, in order to boost the pro-independence vote past the goal posts (whatever the are) when the right moment arrives.

    Sidebar - real priority for Scottish National Party generally and Nicola Sturgeon especially, was putting a stake through Alex Salmond's heart and consigning him to the Dustbin of History - head first. And looks like they are more than half way there. Some (can certainly think of one in particular) will feel this is nothing but personal spite and/or wokeism gone wild. However, personally think it's because SNP & FM think (rightly) that Salmond is a boon to the Unionists and a danger to the Nationalists.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Let’s face it, Labour are an utter mess. They’re a rabble. We have to stop thinking of them as a serious political party and recognise they’re just a glorified student Union.


    The Mail might as well hand over tomorrow's entire edition to Hodges there are so many columns he could write about the mess Labour are in.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    What Labour really needs, in advance of a Batley and Spen by-election and just as Boris uses the Queen’s speech and spending review to set the narrative, is a summer long factional civil war....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,767

    Keir Starmer asked for concrete policy changes Labour will now make in response to these election results, tells the BBC that he will "change the things that need changing and that is the change that I will bring about."

    The change will be "him gone this summer" must be shooting up the probability index after sacking Rayner.
    He looks a lay at 5.0 for next pm.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,522
    In light of Sir Keir's latest move, I shall repeat my earlier comment from this thread

    "The rise of the Greens" Mike says

    I have thought, and said I think on here, that Starmer's treatment of Corbyn and his merry people would lead to a surge in support for the Green Party. I spoke to a very political pro gambling mate about it, and he concurred. One to look out for when bookies start to do over/under %s at the next GE
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,828
    edited May 8

    Keir is gunning for the left and wants a public fight

    LOL Rayner is soft left, she’s not Cat Smith or Richard Burgon 🤣
    Exactly. Rayner is a soft-left figure with cross-party appeal, which is just one part of why this is loopy ; let alone all the other considerations.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,630
    Looks like in Batley and Spen wards Lab and Con were tied at 39.something
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    Keir is gunning for the left and wants a public fight

    LOL Rayner is soft left, she’s not Cat Smith or Richard Burgon 🤣
    Please tell me he’s not planning to make one of them party chairmen.

    The Liberal Democrats and Tories would be celebrating but nobody else would.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,013
    Everything's going so well

    It is a novel approach to a political fightback to piss off the one person you can't actually sack, who is also more likely to appeal to the people who want you gone

    https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1391094252772409346?s=20
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,549
    Speaking of apparent likely winning bets

    Khan 1st pref 40 to 44.99% at 1.33??
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    Keir is gunning for the left and wants a public fight

    LOL Rayner is soft left, she’s not Cat Smith or Richard Burgon 🤣
    It’s bonkers. She’s been one of their best media performers since the election. She looks and sounds human.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    IshmaelZ said:

    Keir Starmer asked for concrete policy changes Labour will now make in response to these election results, tells the BBC that he will "change the things that need changing and that is the change that I will bring about."

    The change will be "him gone this summer" must be shooting up the probability index after sacking Rayner.
    He looks a lay at 5.0 for next pm.
    At this rate, he may be a lay for tomorrow afternoon...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095
    TOPPING said:

    Patrick Maguire
    @patrickkmaguire
    ·
    4m
    Angela Rayner has been sacked as chairman of the Labour Party, source confirms

    ITS ON! "Like Fat Pat's thong"
    Can you please tell me what it all means.
    I was told - by a trusted source who got it from someone unnamed high up (and literally everyone has been to Hartlepool repeatedly campaigning) that Rayner was going to make a push to remove Starmer.

    We all saw that Starmer interview. He would do Whatever It Takes to sort out the Labour Party. That means purges. And apparently the first action is to sack his deputy from her roles as Chair and Campaign Head.

    So lets see what happens next.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,822


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Let’s face it, Labour are an utter mess. They’re a rabble. We have to stop thinking of them as a serious political party and recognise they’re just a glorified student Union.


    The Mail might as well hand over tomorrow's entire edition to Hodges there are so many columns he could write about the mess Labour are in.

    Labour aren’t a serious political party. Starmer really had the audacity to present himself as a ‘sensible centrist’ when he actually has the political antennae of Corbyn.

    Genuinely can’t blame anyone who isn’t voting for this guy. Even with all the doubts I have about the current government, I don’t see how he’s going to actually improve anything.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095
    HYUFD said:

    Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

    I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
    Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

    Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
    52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015
    Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.

    You really are a tool aren't you.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,502

    Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

    I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
    Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

    Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
    Hmm. I think part of the issue was the narrative hyping up an SNP majority, the “both votes snp” strategy. I didn’t expect pro unionist parties to get a higher % of vote share overall.

    Hence the the stalemate..
    There is no stalemate. Various parties have a manifesto pledge to independence, and for the first time since the 2011 parliament we have a majority of MSPs for it. And a record number of MSPs for independence.
    We’re pretty much where we were in 2016.

    How is Sturgeon going to get the vote?
    How are we where we were in 2016? The Greens were not pro-indy in 2016. They ARE pro-indy in 2021 and they are going from 6 seats to 9 seats.
    Of course the greens were pro Indy in 2016..

    Not sure you can argue they weren’t. Pretty clear as to the green view.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,630
    West of Scotland

    3 Lab
    3 Con
    1 Green

    Same as 2016
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,694
    What do we think of the odds that enough Greens / LDs gave Binface their 2nd preference vote thinking Khan would win?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095

    Hooray, I've got back control of my account.

    As your avatar is Bruce Forsyth have you now won a Generation Game cuddly toy?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,822
    ydoethur said:

    Keir is gunning for the left and wants a public fight

    LOL Rayner is soft left, she’s not Cat Smith or Richard Burgon 🤣
    Please tell me he’s not planning to make one of them party chairmen.

    The Liberal Democrats and Tories would be celebrating but nobody else would.
    🤣 If that ever happened I honestly think everyone should just stop paying attention to Labour.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    Are West Midlands PCC and West Midlands mayoral boundaries coterminous?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,502

    HYUFD said:

    Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

    I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
    Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

    Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
    52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015
    Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.

    You really are a tool aren't you.
    HYUFD has a point here - for all my ridiculing of him in the past. Had the SNP got an outright majority, hard to deny a referendum. Both sides will argue this both ways - hence, stalemate
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,013
    Angela Rayner is one of the Labour Party’s most authentic communicators, and with a northern accent. Not totally clear tonight how her sacking helps win back the red wall.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1391096514253099010?s=20
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972

    West of Scotland

    3 Lab
    3 Con
    1 Green

    Same as 2016

    Brexit has had no significant electoral effect then, except the Greens have 2-3 more (potentially).
  • eekeek Posts: 15,817

    eek said:

    On the downside, my career is probably FUBAR'ed as Labour won CPCA and will now sh*t on my parade.

    Oh well. There is beer.

    I thought you were still working on HS2? Did you move to the Cambridgeshire Metro?
    No, I was on Crossrail - I moved off that over 18 months ago. Been on Cambridgeshire Metro for one month - and it wasn't easy to win that - and it's a fascinating and exciting project!

    It could be the future of transport across the UK in the regions, a metro system (AI and autonomous) that runs on rubber wheels on the road but feels like a light-rail system - there's even an option of a personal "pod" that's basically your own private vehicle on a public transport system. Order it from your phone, scan your phone to get in, synch your music and enjoy:

    https://cam-metro.co.uk/conceptual-designs/
    I love this comment from the new mayor

    https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/labour-mayoral-candidate-pledges-halt-20258076

    " will require tens of thousands more homes to built in garden villages "

    so a NIMBY....
This discussion has been closed.