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With the Electoral Commission now investigating the decoration costs Johnson has his worst PMQs to d

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  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    kinabalu said:

    People make themselves look either philistine or ultra partisan calling that bad writing. It reminds me of when Leavers got so upset with Matthew Parris about his extreme Remoania that many of them started to slag him off as a writer, even though his columns were as erudite and elegant as ever. It's fascinating how bias can interfere with the appreciation of prose quality. I'm not immune. I once lashed out at a lacerating piece of antiwokery, calling it "pseudy" and "facile" and "bloated", when on reflection I realized that the actual writing (if not the sentiments) was high quality.
    Quality of writing and quality of argument are linked but non identical matters. The excellent Matthew Parris in his great pro EU purple passages kept on forgetting that top quality journalism when making arguments has to deal with the weakness as well as the strength of their own position, and the strengths as well as the weaknesses of the opposition. He kept forgetting that decent prose doesn't make up for ignoring well founded and arguable claims. It just makes it glaringly obvious by the gap between the high quality prose and the middling contents.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    You are penalising pubs that won't be ready.
    How are they penalised? They can still open 17 May if they want to, so they're no worse off.

    If indeed they're capable of opening say 10 May after a week to order stock, clean lines and get everything ready, then they're still better off by an entire week. An entire week in May, one of the busiest months in the year, its criminal to be saying they have to be shut by law. So best case they can reopen sooner, medium case they can reopen a bit sooner, worst case they stick to the original timeline. Win/win/neutral - no punishment.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    edited April 2021

    This is what I was thinking when Nick Robinson was cooing over Sarah Vine's favourable view of Boris Johnson's wallpaper this morning.

    The press have decided that the refurbishment is the bigger story, for now, but the 'bodies' comment and issue will anger a lot more people, I think.

    Would be very Alanis since that for me - "bodies" - is a deeply unserious matter.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814
    eek said:

    You are penalising pubs that won't be ready.
    Not really. People can still go to those pubs on the 17th.

    Where I am, the households rules have already completely broken down and you still have to travel a very long way to find an area of map with more than 0-3 weekly cases.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317
    IanB2 said:

    Big_G made his amazing journey on a two-way street.
    ...and several times over. Maybe he was lost?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012
    Selebian said:

    And will a disgruntled Foster shuffle off to form the Uladh party?

    Edit: not the 'Uladh' party, d'oh. Unless she has a major change of heart about Irish/British identity.
    ULDH.. no vowels is on trend...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited April 2021
    eek said:

    If the DUP moves to win back hardliners they are likely to lose softer voters to the Alliance.
    No they won't.

    Nobody who is voting DUP will ever vote Alliance, UUP or TUV is as far as they will go.

    Equally nobody who is voting Alliance would ever vote DUP, UUP or SDLP would be as far as they would go.

    It is voters lost to the TUV the DUP have to win back to retake the lead from SF
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939
    Arlene Foster has to one of the least effective Unionist leaders in NI history.
    However, I fear the situation will be worse for her departure.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    gealbhan said:

    My point being that your point is a good one. 60 hours later could be potential sell out. So why not special dispensation for the full house?

    Well, the date may have been fabricated on basis it is sixty hours this side in the first place. My point being, if it was sixty hours or more later, they wouldn’t have tried to sell anything near the full house. The government and scientists wouldn’t’ the have been comfortable with that, nor Wembley stadium.

    After June 21st it’s not normal, it’s new normal.
    Eh? What does this mean? There are games in the tournament after 21 June, that will not be subject to restrictions. Why should England vs Scotland be? What is "new normal"?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited April 2021
    An update on the vaccination programme in my county - Montgomery Co., MD. Today marks the start or walk-in vaccinations (no appointment) for all age groups at the vaccination supercenters.

    50.4% have had one dose, 33.5% fully vaccinated. I am unsure if this is adults or total population.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,628
    kinabalu said:

    Who do you like as a politics writer then? Fraser Nelson?

    Not really read a great deal from him. Andrew Rawnsley, Tim Shipman and Peter Oborne are okay. Can’t say I go out of my way to read a great deal of political commentary. The threads here are usually okay.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,733

    Anecdote Alert.

    My business partner is generally very supportive of Johnson. Not an enthusiast, but very much prefers him to any Labour offerings. He said to me today that the wallpaper doesn't worry him at all, but the bodies piled up comment does, adding it's exactly the sort of thing, the "stupid b******" would say.

    So just froth? Maybe, but maybe not.

    This is what I was thinking when Nick Robinson was cooing over Sarah Vine's favourable view of Boris Johnson's wallpaper this morning.

    The press have decided that the refurbishment is the bigger story, for now, but the 'bodies' comment and issue will anger a lot more people, I think.
    I wonder also if the refurbishment funding might be set alongside the government decision not to help the leaseholders in flats where government legislation has put them on the hook for £90k or so to pay for replacement of flammable insulation.
    The comparison isn’t exactly fair, but neither is the treatment of the leaseholders.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    "Thanks to vaccines, 68% of adults in England have coronavirus antibodies
    Increase in protection across all four UK nations"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thanks-to-vaccines-68-of-adults-in-england-have-covid-antibodies-phm59rm25
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,929
    eek said:

    You are penalising pubs that won't be ready.
    Keeping the status quo would equally penalise pubs that are/could be ready, surely.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    algarkirk said:

    Quality of writing and quality of argument are linked but non identical matters. The excellent Matthew Parris in his great pro EU purple passages kept on forgetting that top quality journalism when making arguments has to deal with the weakness as well as the strength of their own position, and the strengths as well as the weaknesses of the opposition. He kept forgetting that decent prose doesn't make up for ignoring well founded and arguable claims. It just makes it glaringly obvious by the gap between the high quality prose and the middling contents.
    That's true. And in fact I'd say it's rare to see profound insight delivered in pisspoor prose and banality in really good prose. But it is possible. I'd say the latter is more common. Leon on here is an example. He pulls off this trick sometimes.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    eek said:

    You are penalising pubs that won't be ready.
    Why is he? In what way is he 'penalising' them?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Andy_JS said:

    Why can't Labour supporters see that making a fuss about Johnson's apartment is entirely the wrong subject to have a go at him with? It ought to be all about his failure to close the borders in March last year, and also his bizarre assertion that vaccines aren't causing the number of cases to drop when most of the experts say it is. They always seem to choose the wrong subject.

    "Why will the Prime Minister not acknowledge how incredibly impactful the Government Vaccine Rollout has been? This flies in the face of most experts who say it is the primary reason we can reopen our economy and relax the lockdown restrictions!"

    - Anonymous, but correct, Leader of the Opposition

    (Sorry to be so sarky, but how on earth is attacking Johnson for not giving enough credit to the vaccination effort possibly the right move?!)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,532

    Derry Irvine spent a lot more on wallpaper iirc
    You always seem to react to potential wrong doings by pointing out that someone on the other side probably did something worse. Two wrongs do not make a right. Boris either did something wrong or he didn't. What Derry Irvine did is irrelevant to Boris's situation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    Quincel said:

    One of my most controversial opinions is that this isn't in fact true, and that Tory MPs have only been ruthless this century once which was against IDS. Hague and Howard went after losing election. Cameron lost a referendum, May lost an election and still survived for a couple of years despite 80% of the party wanting her out.

    Even Major held on for 5 years with a tiny majority (and years when it was obvious he was on the way to defeat) and Thatcher was deposed but only after a very long premiership making enemies over time and not before becoming electorally problematic.

    Labour, who are often suggested to be less ruthless, got Blair to step down midway through a parliament too. And the move against Corbyn where almost the entire shadow cabinet resigned was more ruthless than anything the Tories have done for decades - it just didn't work because they don't have a 1922 Vote of No Confidence mechanism. But the Tories rarely use that mechanism, in truth. Nor does it cause leaders to resign in fear of losing one.
    I think you are right. Look ar Australia if you want ruthless.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,733
    Selebian said:

    I took Robert's comment to be meant in jest.
    Me too.
    I wasn’t dissing him, just using it as a hook to point out we don’t really know what’s going on with the Sputnik vaccine (and it might well vary from batch to batch).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    eek said:

    Which means that the next leader will be more unionist and Sinn Fein will win the 2022 election.
    As Mr Herdson observes:

    In the current climate, this can only mean a shift to a more hardline position. That's a normal tendency of leadership elections as candidates chase members' votes but will likely be magnified this time because of anger about the NI-GB border.

    Trouble ahead, I'm afraid.


    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1387422864119304194?s=20
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939
    Nigelb said:

    I wonder also if the refurbishment funding might be set alongside the government decision not to help the leaseholders in flats where government legislation has put them on the hook for £90k or so to pay for replacement of flammable insulation.
    The comparison isn’t exactly fair, but neither is the treatment of the leaseholders.
    John Lewis furniture nightmare.
    Or potentially burned to death in your own home nightmare.
  • HYUFD said:

    No they won't.

    Nobody who is voting DUP will ever vote Alliance, UUP or TUV is as far as they will go.

    Equally nobody who is voting Alliance would ever vote DUP, UUP or SDLP would be as far as they would go.

    It is voters lost to the TUV the DUP have to win back to retake the lead from SF
    Unusual circumstances, I know, but can the 2010 General Election result in East Belfast, for example, be explained without very significant DUP/Alliance switching?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317
    Andy_JS said:

    Why can't Labour supporters see that making a fuss about Johnson's apartment is entirely the wrong subject to have a go at him with? It ought to be all about his failure to close the borders in March last year, and also his bizarre assertion that vaccines aren't causing the number of cases to drop when most of the experts say it is. They always seem to choose the wrong subject.

    The wallpaper is a sideshow, which on its own cuts no ice. However as part of a suite of scandals it adds a little extra spice into the mix.

    Closing borders is not a popular criticism of the PM, particularly as we (the Royal we) all spent much of the early summer gaming our holiday destinations to avoid Covid travel inconvenience.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Andy_JS said:

    "Thanks to vaccines, 68% of adults in England have coronavirus antibodies
    Increase in protection across all four UK nations"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thanks-to-vaccines-68-of-adults-in-england-have-covid-antibodies-phm59rm25

    Herd immunity. Lift lockdown.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,029
    edited April 2021

    ...and several times over. Maybe he was lost?
    Do you enjoy being personal

    Maybe I am just a loyal party member, apart from twice voting Blair.

    And on Boris I would be quite content to see Rishi move into no 10 tomorrow

    But Boris does annoy so many of his opponents who cannot stand him I find it quite amusing they do not seem to be getting anywhere

    Mind you, next Thursday may change that perception

    And at my age I have learnt a well known motto, adapt, adopt and improve and if I change my mind so be it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,733
    algarkirk said:

    Quality of writing and quality of argument are linked but non identical matters. The excellent Matthew Parris in his great pro EU purple passages kept on forgetting that top quality journalism when making arguments has to deal with the weakness as well as the strength of their own position, and the strengths as well as the weaknesses of the opposition. He kept forgetting that decent prose doesn't make up for ignoring well founded and arguable claims. It just makes it glaringly obvious by the gap between the high quality prose and the middling contents.

    Fair point.
    An easy trap to fall into when you care passionately about an issue.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    Herd immunity. Lift lockdown.
    What proportion of the population needs antibodies to trigger for herd immunity with the Kent R? 68% is adults only of course, kiddiewinks will drag it down.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317
    Scott_xP said:
    The end of a glittering career. Cash for ashes, dust to dust.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548
    "Boris Johnson’s great political Achilles heel isn’t greed or cronyism. It’s not incompetence either. It’s his addiction to over-promising."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/sleaze-claims-boris-johnson-red-wall-voters-flat-carrie-symonds-b932159.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1619618417
  • As Mr Herdson observes:

    In the current climate, this can only mean a shift to a more hardline position. That's a normal tendency of leadership elections as candidates chase members' votes but will likely be magnified this time because of anger about the NI-GB border.

    Trouble ahead, I'm afraid.


    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1387422864119304194?s=20
    It does occur to me that Fosters resignation is not a good moment for NI
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    Stocky said:

    Always worth remembering that Cummings is not a conservative (either with a big C or a little c).

    (I know ... some would say that he is a big C ...)
    He hates the trad Tory party by all accounts. Although if he brings down Johnson he might be empowering the sort of Tories he hates.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738

    As Mr Herdson observes:

    In the current climate, this can only mean a shift to a more hardline position. That's a normal tendency of leadership elections as candidates chase members' votes but will likely be magnified this time because of anger about the NI-GB border.

    Trouble ahead, I'm afraid.


    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1387422864119304194?s=20
    Yep - it's a swing to the headline with middle class unionists probably heading towards the Alliance as they will have a chance of winning.

    HUYFD has this idea that all votes are split on religious lines but that really isn't the case when you start looking at those with a university education.
  • "Boris Johnson’s great political Achilles heel isn’t greed or cronyism. It’s not incompetence either. It’s his addiction to over-promising."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/sleaze-claims-boris-johnson-red-wall-voters-flat-carrie-symonds-b932159.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1619618417

    Absolutely spot on
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    moonshine said:

    What proportion of the population needs antibodies to trigger for herd immunity with the Kent R? 68% is adults only of course, kiddiewinks will drag it down.
    Tricky as we don't really know the R with no interventions, but it seems likely that by 80% we should be seeing a significant effect. The other issue is this - if everyone who would require hospital care or might die is protected, then it is less important if there are still reservoirs of Covid among the youngsters (issues with long covid aside).
  • moonshine said:

    What proportion of the population needs antibodies to trigger for herd immunity with the Kent R? 68% is adults only of course, kiddiewinks will drag it down.
    Let's lock the little bastards down. Permanently. Time to go full King Herod.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    Nigelb said:

    I wonder also if the refurbishment funding might be set alongside the government decision not to help the leaseholders in flats where government legislation has put them on the hook for £90k or so to pay for replacement of flammable insulation.
    The comparison isn’t exactly fair, but neither is the treatment of the leaseholders.

    Ooo yes. This should be memo'd to SKS pronto if you have his co-ordinates.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    eek said:

    Yep - it's a swing to the headline with middle class unionists probably heading towards the Alliance as they will have a chance of winning.

    HUYFD has this idea that all votes are split on religious lines but that really isn't the case when you start looking at those with a university education.
    Most middle class moderate Unionists already vote UUP or Alliance anyway.

    It is working class Unionists or middle class hardliners who are the DUP's core vote and it is they who they have been leaking to TUV
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317

    Let's lock the little bastards down. Permanently. Time to go full King Herod.
    So the accusations about Tories and consumable babies may not be a myth be after all.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,508

    Let's lock the little bastards down. Permanently. Time to go full King Herod.
    Even Long Covid would be a breeze compared to being permanently locked in a small flat with a couple of toddlers. Parents would be glad to go to hospital for the break from them I'd imagine.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939
    edited April 2021
    eek said:

    Yep - it's a swing to the headline with middle class unionists probably heading towards the Alliance as they will have a chance of winning.

    HUYFD has this idea that all votes are split on religious lines but that really isn't the case when you start looking at those with a university education.
    What price a UUP recovery?
    On which note whatever happened to @Lucian_Fletcher ?
    He was the go to guy on NI and the UUP in particular.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    eek said:

    Which means that the next leader will be more unionist and Sinn Fein will win the 2022 election.
    Another fine showing for Boris Johnson and the Conservative and (Dis)Unionist Party.
  • So the accusations about Tories and consumable babies may not be a myth be after all.
    Herod has been very cruelly treated by history, IMHO.

    At worst, he's guilty of acting out of an abundance of caution.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317

    Do you enjoy being personal

    Maybe I am just a loyal party member, apart from twice voting Blair.

    And on Boris I would be quite content to see Rishi move into no 10 tomorrow

    But Boris does annoy so many of his opponents who cannot stand him I find it quite amusing they do not seem to be getting anywhere

    Mind you, next Thursday may change that perception

    And at my age I have learnt a well known motto, adapt, adopt and improve and if I change my mind so be it
    I'll owe you a pint of Felinfoel Double Dragon if RT becomes FM. You can hold me to that!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited April 2021

    Unusual circumstances, I know, but can the 2010 General Election result in East Belfast, for example, be explained without very significant DUP/Alliance switching?
    TUV went from 0% in East Belfast in 2005 to 5% in East Belfast in 2010 at the DUP's expense.

    The Alliance vote now is also higher in East Belfast at 44% than it was in 2010 when they got 32%, so any middle class Unionists who might have switched to the Alliance have likely already done so.

    The brute facts are these, currently the DUP trail SF by 5% with the TUV on 10% so if the DUP continued on their current course SF would win most seats next year, only by winning back hardliners lost to TUV can the DUP retake first place.

    In NI terms Foster is May and the DUP need a Boris to recover votes lost to the TUV, the NI Brexit Party
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,029
    edited April 2021
    The one thing that came out of PMQs for me was Boris's denial he said those words and challenged those who said he had to bring forward their evidence, as they have none

    The simple task for the so called whstlblowers is to bring forward a tape or recording of him saying those words and he has to resign following his HOC denial today

    I would also caution those who may want to accuse Boris, that in view of how angry he was they do not stray into controversial legal territory
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    kinabalu said:

    Ooo yes. This should be memo'd to SKS pronto if you have his co-ordinates.
    The government has "made leaseholders responsible" for anything. A combination of the terms of their leases and the malpractice and subsequent collapse of the building firms responsible has hung them out to dry, along with a critical shortage of appropriately qualified surveyors.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    HYUFD said:

    No they won't.

    Nobody who is voting DUP will ever vote Alliance, UUP or TUV is as far as they will go.

    Equally nobody who is voting Alliance would ever vote DUP, UUP or SDLP would be as far as they would go.

    It is voters lost to the TUV the DUP have to win back to retake the lead from SF
    Not quite true, there is a large element of negative voting in NI especially when its FPTP. So otherwise moderate people will vote for people they dont like because they like the other lot even less.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    From a politician with no axe to grind (former Chief Minister of Guernsey):

    In my contact through @BICSecretariat, I always found @DUPleader personally courteous and polite as well as clear and forthright in expressing her views during British-Irish Council Summit meetings. I wish her and her family well for her future after she steps down.

    https://twitter.com/gavinstpier/status/1387430604044648452?s=20
  • dixiedean said:

    What price a UUP recovery?
    On which note whatever happened to @Lucian_Fletcher ?
    He was the go to guy on NI and the UUP in particular.
    Funny you mention that, I was about to message him and Alanbrooke to see if they are up for a guest piece on this.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017

    The one thing that came out of PMQs for me was Boris's denial he said those words and challenged those who said he had to bring forward their evidence, as they have none

    The simple task for the so called whstlblowers is to bring forward a tape or recording of him saying those words and he has to resign following his HOC denial today

    I would also caution those who may want to accuse Boris, that in view of how angry he was they do not stray into contravesal legal territory

    I would love to see Boris Johnson try to sue someone accusing him of lying for libel. It would be like Jeremy Corbyn suing someone for calling him anti-Semitic.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    Good statement by Arlene Foster:

    There are people in Northern Ireland with a British identity, others are Irish, others are Northern Irish, others are a mixture of all three and some are new and emerging. We must all learn to be generous to each other, live together and share this wonderful country.

    The future of unionism and Northern Ireland will not be found in division, it will only be found in sharing this place we all are privileged to call home.


    https://mydup.com/news/statement-by-rt-hon-arlene-foster-mla?token=8hhrY5xG4j5Acq-vO2TBwEcF8MUd8yjC

    It is, but it seems like the sort of statement designed to be poorly received by depressingly large parts of Northern Ireland.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810

    The government has "made leaseholders responsible" for anything. A combination of the terms of their leases and the malpractice and subsequent collapse of the building firms responsible has hung them out to dry, along with a critical shortage of appropriately qualified surveyors.
    Yes, this is a massive issue. It's impacting (negatively) a large proportion of the people I know in the flesh & blood arena. In less exceptional times I think it would be really featuring.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 766
    As BBC Political Correspondent, a lot of what LauraK does is report on what the government of the day is saying, from Government sources, so she'll seem biased to whoever is in power. Didn't we call Nick Robinson "toenails," when Gordon Brown was PM, but I didn't see bias from him against Cameron when he took power. She's just doing her job.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    I am just a loyal party member, apart from twice voting Blair.

    Great line, Big G.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited April 2021

    Not quite true, there is a large element of negative voting in NI especially when its FPTP. So otherwise moderate people will vote for people they dont like because they like the other lot even less.
    In a few constituencies like Fermanagh and South Tyrone where the UUP are the main opponents to SF, in most constituencies however the DUP are the main Unionist party.

    At Stormont constituencies are less relevant anywhere as it is pure STV PR
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,161
    MaxPB said:

    I just read that the WHO is opening up COVAX for individual donations. Great idea, once they give the details I'm going to make a donation and I'd urge all PBers to do the same if that can. Ultimately, it's on all of us to get this under control and we can't be a vaccinated island watching the rest of the world burn.

    I think my per capita share of the cut in the international aid budget is about £100. How many AZ doses could I buy with that?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400

    I think my per capita share of the cut in the international aid budget is about £100. How many AZ doses could I buy with that?
    About 30, but they'll end up sitting in an Emergent Biosciences warehouse in Baltimore.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,569

    I would love to see Boris Johnson try to sue someone accusing him of lying for libel. It would be like Jeremy Corbyn suing someone for calling him anti-Semitic.

    How could he afford it? Apart from crowdfunding?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810

    The one thing that came out of PMQs for me was Boris's denial he said those words and challenged those who said he had to bring forward their evidence, as they have none

    The simple task for the so called whstlblowers is to bring forward a tape or recording of him saying those words and he has to resign following his HOC denial today

    I would also caution those who may want to accuse Boris, that in view of how angry he was they do not stray into controversial legal territory

    Do you think he knows there's no tape and therefore is safe to lie through his teeth about it?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012
    kjh said:

    You always seem to react to potential wrong doings by pointing out that someone on the other side probably did something worse. Two wrongs do not make a right. Boris either did something wrong or he didn't. What Derry Irvine did is irrelevant to Boris's situation.
    Do I? While the left scream at Boris its fair play to comment that... let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

    Its a tad ironic that journos, who are one the least trusted sections of our society, are critical of others . I wonder how honest journalists are with their expenses.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738
    Formula 1 confirms the Formula 1 Grand Prix Du Canada 2021 will be replaced by The Turkish Grand Prix this season between 11th – 13th June 2021. #F1
  • HYUFD said:

    TUV went from 0% in East Belfast in 2005 to 5% in East Belfast in 2010 at the DUP's expense.

    The Alliance vote now is also higher in East Belfast at 44% than it was in 2010 when they got 32%, so any middle class Unionists who might have switched to the Alliance have likely already done so.

    The brute facts are these, currently the DUP trail SF by 5% with the TUV on 10% so if the DUP continued on their current course SF would win most seats next year, only by winning back hardliners lost to TUV can the DUP retake first place.

    In NI terms Foster is May and the DUP need a Boris to recover votes lost to the TUV, the NI Brexit Party
    The point in Belfast East in 2010 is the Alliance vote was up 25%, and DUP down 16%. It's almost impossible to model that without significant DUP to Alliance switching.

    Overall, I simply think you underestimate the breadth of these churches. Plenty of people voted Corbyn in 2017 and Johnson in 2019 for instance - not vast numbers but enough to contribute to the result meaningfully. Ditto, there are material numbers of Obama/Trump voters. It's all a bit eccentric, sure. But you often go too far stereotyping party vote, and miss the fact that these things may not be huge but do happen and do matter.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188

    Eh? What does this mean? There are games in the tournament after 21 June, that will not be subject to restrictions. Why should England vs Scotland be? What is "new normal"?
    A phrase that the frit like to bandy around to make themselves feel better....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    Nigelb said:

    Not necessarily, as this thread discusses.
    https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1387397186372005893
    ... I don't know enough about the specific AdV system used here, but it's reasonable to think that if E1 recombined w/ the Ad vector, it might replace spike. So that's doubly bad: you not only have a replication-competent Ad5, it's not expressing spike. Which is...the entire point....
    Don't worry, I was making a gag. And clearly there is going to be a big problem of human immune systems recognising the adenovirus part of the vaccine (because they were infected with it through "escape"), and therefore making it massively less effective.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021
    Monkeys said:

    As BBC Political Correspondent, a lot of what LauraK does is report on what the government of the day is saying, from Government sources, so she'll seem biased to whoever is in power. Didn't we call Nick Robinson "toenails," when Gordon Brown was PM, but I didn't see bias from him against Cameron when he took power. She's just doing her job.

    The problem I have with lauraK is that she managed to completely miss Theresa Mays election gamble. For someone so well connected, she monumentally misread / allowed herself to be mislead.

    I was betting on that and lost a lot of money. Her job is to be critical, not just buy into the governments narrative and allow herself to be played like a violin.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317
    kinabalu said:

    Do you think he knows there's no tape and therefore is safe to lie through his teeth about it?
    What are the odds of a Machiavellian operative like Dom not having recorded on his mobile phone a ranting Johnson, for future leverage?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    Monkeys said:

    As BBC Political Correspondent, a lot of what LauraK does is report on what the government of the day is saying, from Government sources, so she'll seem biased to whoever is in power. Didn't we call Nick Robinson "toenails," when Gordon Brown was PM, but I didn't see bias from him against Cameron when he took power. She's just doing her job.

    Fair point. It's just she often seems to simply pass on what she's been told without subjecting it to any due diligence or critical attention. So things sometimes get more weight than they should.
  • I'll owe you a pint of Felinfoel Double Dragon if RT becomes FM. You can hold me to that!
    We both agree that is not going to happen

    Though Adam Price taking FM is not a complete fantasy
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317

    How could he afford it? Apart from crowdfunding?
    Loans from the Conservative Party?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    Monkeys said:

    As BBC Political Correspondent, a lot of what LauraK does is report on what the government of the day is saying, from Government sources, so she'll seem biased to whoever is in power. Didn't we call Nick Robinson "toenails," when Gordon Brown was PM, but I didn't see bias from him against Cameron when he took power. She's just doing her job.

    Bashing LauraK does seem to have become something of a national sport.

    She's accused of bias from both the right and the left so maybe she is straighter that people think. Personally, I would find it hard to divine her political affiliation. If pressed I'd say a liberal but not sure.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317

    We both agree that is not going to happen

    Though Adam Price taking FM is not a complete fantasy
    I'll happily buy you a pint of Double Dragon should that come to pass
  • kinabalu said:

    Fair point. It's just she often seems to simply pass on what she's been told without subjecting it to any due diligence or critical attention. So things sometimes get more weight than they should.
    She tweets to much, as do a lot of them. A lot of it is passing on placed snippets. A lot ends with a question mark.

    These people need to be journalists not gossip mongers... verify what you're being told, interpret and translate it, and report the story, not the snippet.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738

    What are the odds of a Machiavellian operative like Dom not having recorded on his mobile phone a ranting Johnson, for future leverage?
    And when would the best time to play such a recording be? say when sat in Parliament answering questions...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2021
    ping said:

    The problem I have with lauraK is that she managed to completely miss Theresa Mays election gamble. For someone so well connected, she monumentally misread / allowed herself to be mislead.

    I was betting on that and lost a lot of money. Her job is to be critical, not just buy into the governments narrative and allow herself to be played like a violin.
    I was a bit tongue-in-cheek earlier today calling her a 'BBC lefty' in response to someone saying she must be right because Momentum call her a Tory. The fact is I couldn't say if she's left or right, quite frankly I find her to be a very dull empty vessel.

    All she does most of the time is copy and paste press releases by the parties. So sometimes it will be "government sources say [xyz]" and other times it will be "Labour sources say [abc]" but that's just copying and pasting what others are telling her.

    No proper investigations, when she gets to ask questions whether to Boris, Hancock or Starmer, they're typically rather vapid questions. Hence all the questions from her and others about holidays etc knowing they won't get an answer. Nothing cutting or insightful against anyone.

    She's simply really weak and not impressive at all. A Political Editor really ought to be able to do more than just copy and paste the soundbites that others wish to give to them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810

    What are the odds of a Machiavellian operative like Dom not having recorded on his mobile phone a ranting Johnson, for future leverage?
    I'm finding this one hard to call. I can see why he might have the goods. But somehow I just can't see that moment where the tape comes out and we're all listening to it and going, "Ooo, Boris!" That's an American type happening. No, I think not. Pity.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    I am sure the lefties on here are grateful to Mr Smithson for allowing them a thread to froth over. Its been a long time where the left have had to suck it up... Time to give them a moment to enjoy, if wallpaper be the subject of their wrath, so be it.

    As Boris paid for the wallpaper himself it makes it even more bizarre
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited April 2021

    I think my per capita share of the cut in the international aid budget is about £100. How many AZ doses could I buy with that?
    About 30, I think

    Edit: I see Robert beat me to it.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    2166/29/124 Covid figures are v good again.

    Hospitalisations in particular at 124 v 192 last Weds.
  • eek said:

    And when would the best time to play such a recording be? say when sat in Parliament answering questions...
    I understand he was not present when the alleged remarks were made by Boris

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    I was a bit tongue-in-cheek earlier today calling her a 'BBC lefty' in response to someone saying she must be right because Momentum call her a Tory. The fact is I couldn't say if she's left or right, quite frankly I find her to be a very dull empty vessel.

    All she does most of the time is copy and paste press releases by the parties. So sometimes it will be "government sources say [xyz]" and other times it will be "Labour sources say [abc]" but that's just copying and pasting what others are telling her.

    No proper investigations, when she gets to ask questions whether to Boris, Hancock or Starmer, they're typically rather vapid questions. Hence all the questions from her and others about holidays etc knowing they won't get an answer. Nothing cutting or insightful against anyone.

    She's simply really weak and not impressive at all. A Political Editor really ought to be able to do more than just copy and paste the soundbites that others wish to give to them.
    I would imagine she is on text message terms with many senior politicians and hence whatever she says has gone through the filter of plausibility from those "sources" which are not to be sniffed at.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,132
    Hardly surprising Boris Johnson is angry.

    He can see the writing on the wall, and he’s just spent nine grand having it papered...

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-scandal-b1838974.html https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1387433692616921094/photo/1
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012

    I am sure the lefties on here are grateful to Mr Smithson for allowing them a thread to froth over. Its been a long time where the left have had to suck it up... Time to give them a moment to enjoy, if wallpaper be the subject of their wrath, so be it.

    KS's advisors probably suggested throwing some policies against the wall to see if they stick, so of course SirKS plumped for wallpaper.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317
    kinabalu said:

    I'm finding this one hard to call. I can see why he might have the goods. But somehow I just can't see that moment where the tape comes out and we're all listening to it and going, "Ooo, Boris!" That's an American type happening. No, I think not. Pity.
    Dom might be (and I am not saying he is) the sort of duplicitous b****** who would record EVERYTHING.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Headline:

    Nestlé to cut almost 600 jobs as it closes UK factory and moves some production to Europe

    Detail: It said it plans to invest £20.2m in York to "modernise and increase production of KitKat in the city where the brand was first created in 1935".

    A further £9.2m will be invested in Halifax to "equip the factory to take on the largest portion of Fawdon's current production"


    https://news.sky.com/story/nestl-to-cut-almost-600-jobs-as-it-closes-uk-factory-and-moves-some-production-to-europe-12289465

    I guess "consolidating production and investing in £29,400,000 in other UK production sites" is not as "newsworthy" as moves some production to Europe when the "largest proportion" is staying in the UK.....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    As Boris paid for the wallpaper himself it makes it even more bizarre
    Seriously doubt your PM pays for ANYTHING himself. Just like his role model Trumpsky.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012

    It does occur to me that Fosters resignation is not a good moment for NI
    Does anyone on PB know if any party at all in NI has an actual workable policy, without unicorns, on what the UK policy on the implementation of Brexit with regard to RoI, NI and the border should be as from where we are now?

    If none have one then it is fair to say that there isn't one available. Which would be a critical fact right now.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    I would imagine she is on text message terms with many senior politicians and hence whatever she says has gone through the filter of plausibility from those "sources" which are not to be sniffed at.
    Oh absolutely, but as I said that's just copying and pasting what others want to say.

    She really ought to be more competent at stuff other than that. As she represents the BBC she's almost inevitably the first journalist to be called to ask a question, so should have a humdinger lined up sometimes, but its always vapid stuff. When was the last time she asked something unexpected and insightful? I can't think of any time.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,569

    The point in Belfast East in 2010 is the Alliance vote was up 25%, and DUP down 16%. It's almost impossible to model that without significant DUP to Alliance switching.

    Overall, I simply think you underestimate the breadth of these churches. Plenty of people voted Corbyn in 2017 and Johnson in 2019 for instance - not vast numbers but enough to contribute to the result meaningfully. Ditto, there are material numbers of Obama/Trump voters. It's all a bit eccentric, sure. But you often go too far stereotyping party vote, and miss the fact that these things may not be huge but do happen and do matter.
    And, AIUI, fewer young people are (or were) leaving NI these days, and some at least of the older, more hidebound, DUP-ers must of necessity have 'faced the final curtain'.
    What was the age range of deaths in Norn as a result of Covid? We know that it disproportionately affects those in disadvantaged areas.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810

    I was a bit tongue-in-cheek earlier today calling her a 'BBC lefty' in response to someone saying she must be right because Momentum call her a Tory. The fact is I couldn't say if she's left or right, quite frankly I find her to be a very dull empty vessel.

    All she does most of the time is copy and paste press releases by the parties. So sometimes it will be "government sources say [xyz]" and other times it will be "Labour sources say [abc]" but that's just copying and pasting what others are telling her.

    No proper investigations, when she gets to ask questions whether to Boris, Hancock or Starmer, they're typically rather vapid questions. Hence all the questions from her and others about holidays etc knowing they won't get an answer. Nothing cutting or insightful against anyone.

    She's simply really weak and not impressive at all. A Political Editor really ought to be able to do more than just copy and paste the soundbites that others wish to give to them.
    Wahay. Big big moment. Thompson walks back a piece of nonsense. Hats off in fact - and fine to claim tongue in cheek. :smile:

    4.53 pm. 28th April 2021.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279

    Seriously doubt your PM pays for ANYTHING himself. Just like his role model Trumpsky.
    He must pay for something. He earns enough dosh and given he's skint must spend all the dosh he earns one way or another.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    moonshine said:

    What proportion of the population needs antibodies to trigger for herd immunity with the Kent R? 68% is adults only of course, kiddiewinks will drag it down.
    If kiddies are 20% of the population, that equates to about 54.5% of the total population. So I'd say we need another 13m or so first doses to get there.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    The presser won't be good news (as in early unlockdown good news) because without fail that would be Bozza delivering it. Despite the flak he would take for Wallpapergate.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,132
    Stocky said:

    He must pay for something. He earns enough dosh and given he's skint must spend all the dosh he earns one way or another.

    Child support
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited April 2021

    The point in Belfast East in 2010 is the Alliance vote was up 25%, and DUP down 16%. It's almost impossible to model that without significant DUP to Alliance switching.

    Overall, I simply think you underestimate the breadth of these churches. Plenty of people voted Corbyn in 2017 and Johnson in 2019 for instance - not vast numbers but enough to contribute to the result meaningfully. Ditto, there are material numbers of Obama/Trump voters. It's all a bit eccentric, sure. But you often go too far stereotyping party vote, and miss the fact that these things may not be huge but do happen and do matter.
    They did so to get Brexit done. DUP voters have switched to TUV to stop the NI Protocol and fight the Irish Sea border at all costs.

    The number of Obama/Trump voters was not very many at all given Trump got a lower voteshare in 2016 than Romney did in 2012. It was Obama voters who went 3rd party or stayed home in 2016 and for Biden in 2020 who were key.

    The key point remains under Foster the DUP were 5% behind SF, if they continued as they were then SF would be the largest party next year.

    Only by regaining hardline Unionist voters lost to TUV (now polling 10%) could the DUP have a chance to regain first place and beat SF again (SF having no equivalent party like TUV to lose hardline Nationalists too like the SNP now have Alba for example)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,360

    What are the odds of a Machiavellian operative like Dom not having recorded on his mobile phone a ranting Johnson, for future leverage?
    Which points back to the central mystery:

    What does D Cummings want?

    It can't be a something, like a job or a policy. He's been so obvious in threatening BoJo that anything he gets will look like a blatant payoff. If the plan was blackmail, it would need to be discreet; hack into the Downing Street streetlights to flash out a coded message or something.

    Tempting to think that it's to catapult Gove into No 10, and the clock is really ticking on that one now, but that would be mad. Though that doesn't rule it out.

    Is it just to destroy Boris, whether for revenge or guilt? It might also destroy Dom, but as things stand, he's dead anyway- so what's he got to lose?

This discussion has been closed.