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Only in the Midlands and Wales do more people think Johnson’s “clean and honest” over those who thin

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,617

    Sorry that is not quite the case

    Man Utd sighted government involvement and the papers across Europe named Boris as having defeated the proposals as well as EUFA officials
    So long as you don't think the magnificent man saved football - I'll settle for that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    Charles said:

    Except it’s not his flat. It’s a government flat. I know that’s not a justification but it will put enough people off the scent.

    Separately why are we so cheap with government property? Spending £250k on doing up a flat is not that much for a PM.
    Indeed. Compare it with the elysee palace which makes Windsor castle look dowdy.

    The British prime minister habitually lives in the most humble circs of any g20 leader. Discuss
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    edited April 2021
    I presume we did this yesterday?

    Covid vaccine rollout to 40-44s ‘expected’ next week, says NHSE

    https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/covid-vaccine-rollout-to-40-44s-expected-next-week-says-nhse/

    I would suggest if you are in that age bracket to give the NHS online booking system a cheeky ping tomorrow / Monday and see if it lets you book....as on previous occasions when the smoke signals go up for a new cohort the online system gets a backend update / allows booking before it is publicly greenlit.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,652
    Charles said:

    Except it’s not his flat. It’s a government flat. I know that’s not a justification but it will put enough people off the scent.

    Separately why are we so cheap with government property? Spending £250k on doing up a flat is not that much for a PM.
    The real issue is surely that the apartment in No. 10 (and No. 11) is meant to be tiny and not very commodious. I think the PM should live in a grace and favour apartment in one of the Royal Palaces.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    kinabalu said:

    So long as you don't think the magnificent man saved football - I'll settle for that.
    Trouble is, he did


    BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL

    Just shut up and be thankful
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,652
    Leon said:

    Indeed. Compare it with the elysee palace which makes Windsor castle look dowdy.

    The British prime minister habitually lives in the most humble circs of any g20 leader. Discuss
    If proximity to that much gold leaf causes the sort of twathead behaviour we've seen from Macron I'm glad we keep the PM in such squalor.

    However, the apartment does seem to be too cramped, and something should be done.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,617
    Leon said:

    Trouble is, he did


    BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL

    Just shut up and be thankful
    Goodnight.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    stodge said:

    FPT

    I'm basing the numbers on the NIMS population estimates. I accept that may be inaccurate but I don't understand the "voters invented for electoral benefit" comment?

    Would you care to explain that to the rest of us?
    Your neighbouring borough has a track record of padding the electoral roll with voters who don’t exist. It might be that practice has spread.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    No one cares. The sun shines. The jabs work. Lockdown eases

    I’m down in Cornwall in warm breezy weather and the sense of hedonistic relief is palpable

    My own extended family had a large and illegal gathering indoors last night. We all thought ‘fuck it’ and did it. This morning we worked out 10 people got thru 20 bottles of wine. And it really wasn’t just me

    We could be looking at a genuinely roaring 20s. At least for a while....

    "the sense of hedonistic relief is palpable"

    Don't 99.46% of PBers reckon that "hedonistic relief" is your permanent condition? Know I do!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    Indeed. Compare it with the elysee palace which makes Windsor castle look dowdy.

    The British prime minister habitually lives in the most humble circs of any g20 leader. Discuss
    Macron sitting behind his gold desk telling the yellow vest protestors to calm down was a terrible look.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,995
    edited April 2021
    kinabalu said:

    So long as you don't think the magnificent man saved football - I'll settle for that.
    He played an important role and set up the fan based review by Tracey Crouch
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,210
    edited April 2021
    Poor old SCons, what a shame.

    'Projections based on the survey, carried out for The Sunday Post by polling company Survation, suggests the SNP will win 67 seats, giving Nicola Sturgeon a majority of five at Holyrood.
    Scottish Labour is projected to win 24 seats, the same number the party won in the last Holyrood election, with the Scottish Tories coming third with 22 seats, nine fewer than they won in 2016. Meanwhile, the survey of more than 1,000 Scots last week, suggests the Scottish Greens could almost double their seats from six to 11.'

    https://twitter.com/sunday_post/status/1386073051645812736?s=21
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,560

    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    Will there be enough contiguity of the unvaccinated to create a firestorm, or will COVID by that stage be more of a will-o-the-wisp?

    Even based on lower uptakes in minority communities, the numbers amongst their older cohorts seem good enough to have a significant herd effect.

    Perhaps younger groups will have lower uptakes, given that they turn out less at elections. But here too there will still be a herd effect with the heavily vaccinated mass of parents and elders still a formidable firewall on transfer between different groups, a few ports left open, but many blocked.

    Perhaps undocumented (and recent) immigrants? There probably won't be many older people in those groups though.

    I'm hopeful we will have pretty specific outbreaks that mostly get contained before becoming wider conflagrations.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,384
    Good Lord! What are they on in the Midlands and Wales!
  • Poor old SCons, what a shame.

    'Projections based on the survey, carried out for The Sunday Post by polling company Survation, suggests the SNP will win 67 seats, giving Nicola Sturgeon a majority of five at Holyrood.
    Scottish Labour is projected to win 24 seats, the same number the party won in the last Holyrood election, with the Scottish Tories coming third with 22 seats, nine fewer than they won in 2016. Meanwhile, the survey of more than 1,000 Scots last week, suggests the Scottish Greens could almost double their seats from six to 11.'

    https://twitter.com/sunday_post/status/1386073051645812736?s=21

    This poll affirms the move away from independence with no leading 51/49

    But as important only18% think independence is an important issue
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    kinabalu said:

    Yes perhaps it is mainly due to the vaccine success.
    'Life is better with the corrupt Tory Sleazebags. Don't let Labour ruin it!'.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536

    Poor old SCons, what a shame.

    'Projections based on the survey, carried out for The Sunday Post by polling company Survation, suggests the SNP will win 67 seats, giving Nicola Sturgeon a majority of five at Holyrood.
    Scottish Labour is projected to win 24 seats, the same number the party won in the last Holyrood election, with the Scottish Tories coming third with 22 seats, nine fewer than they won in 2016. Meanwhile, the survey of more than 1,000 Scots last week, suggests the Scottish Greens could almost double their seats from six to 11.'

    https://twitter.com/sunday_post/status/1386073051645812736?s=21

    Odd that you don’t mention the lead for NO
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,148

    Poor old SCons, what a shame.

    'Projections based on the survey, carried out for The Sunday Post by polling company Survation, suggests the SNP will win 67 seats, giving Nicola Sturgeon a majority of five at Holyrood.
    Scottish Labour is projected to win 24 seats, the same number the party won in the last Holyrood election, with the Scottish Tories coming third with 22 seats, nine fewer than they won in 2016. Meanwhile, the survey of more than 1,000 Scots last week, suggests the Scottish Greens could almost double their seats from six to 11.'

    https://twitter.com/sunday_post/status/1386073051645812736?s=21

    At the last Holyrood election the Tories were lead by Cameron at Westminster and Davidson at Holyrood. Johnson/Ross on track to lose nearly a third of their seats - which is a massive setback under a pseudo-PR system.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,210
    Leon said:

    Odd that you don’t mention the lead for NO
    Got to make you raddled old farts do some work.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,148
    Leon said:

    Odd that you don’t mention the lead for NO
    The 50% for the SNP in the constituency vote is a more immediate source of joy for SNP supporters I would think.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    Trouble is, he did


    BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL

    Just shut up and be thankful
    An upbeat song that sums it up:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79DijItQXMM
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,506
    Leon said:

    No one cares

    You don't care about the Indian variant possibly fucking up un-lockdown?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The real issue is surely that the apartment in No. 10 (and No. 11) is meant to be tiny and not very commodious. I think the PM should live in a grace and favour apartment in one of the Royal Palaces.
    The palaces (except for Clarence House) are rather grim though.

    I’d look at Carlton Terrace.

    Kick the Privy Council Office out of number 2 and Ken Griffith out of number 3 and you are sorted.

    You might have concentration risk to scare the cops though (the foreign secretary is at number 1)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,898
    Sad to see Super Real Madrid held on for a famous 0-0 draw at home to Real Betis.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536

    At the last Holyrood election the Tories were lead by Cameron at Westminster and Davidson at Holyrood. Johnson/Ross on track to lose nearly a third of their seats - which is a massive setback under a pseudo-PR system.
    I have a weird feeling - a change in me waters - that Scottish Labour are about to stage a significant revival

    Sturgeon is now fucking boring. She just is. Sorry. Salmond is a has-been sex-pest. I know the sort.

    Prediction: labour are now at the depth of their nadir, all seems lost, no way back.

    Yet this is not the case. The party was born in scotland and it will revive, again, in Scotland, first.

    Boris will refuse Sindyref2 - to the quiet relief of the majority in Scotland who don’t fancy Brexit 2.0 times a zillion. But the Tories wont benefit, and neither will the Nats (who will split on UDI and all that). The quiet beneficiaries will be Labour, who will seem sane between these two extremes and will cultivate devomax and so forth

    Labour will rebound in Scotland enabling them to take a large chunk of Scottish seats off the Nats in 2024, and maybe win a hung parliament in Westminster. Even if they don’t manage that, they will be sufficiently vibrant in Scotland to win an overall majority in the UK in the next GE after 2024.

    I suddenly see that happening. Dunno why. Might be the excellent curry I just enjoyed

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    New Scottish Parliament poll, Survation 16 - 20 Apr (changes vs 29 - 30 Mar):

    List:
    SNP ~ 35% (-3)
    Lab ~ 22% (+3)
    Con ~ 20% (+2)
    Grn ~ 10% (-1)
    LD ~ 7% (-1)
    Alba ~ 3% (nc)
    RUK ~ 1% (nc)
    UKIP ~ 1% (nc)

    Constituency:
    SNP ~ 50% (+1)
    Lab ~ 21% (+1)
    Con ~ 21% (nc)
    LD ~ 7% (-2)

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386080528256970754?s=20
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,672
    Leon said:

    Indeed. Compare it with the elysee palace which makes Windsor castle look dowdy.

    The British prime minister habitually lives in the most humble circs of any g20 leader. Discuss
    Mostly, I think you're right. But 10 DS has 100 rooms, by comparison with which Trudeau's 22-room home looks quite modest:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rideau_Cottage

    That said, Trudeau has separate offices, this is just where he lives.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,830

    At the last Holyrood election the Tories were lead by Cameron at Westminster and Davidson at Holyrood. Johnson/Ross on track to lose nearly a third of their seats - which is a massive setback under a pseudo-PR system.
    In 2016 the SCons got 22% on the constituency and list, this poll has them on 20% and 21% so barely any difference, tactical voting from other Unionists to keep the SNP out could still see them hold more constituencies than this poll suggests.

    Overall Survation also has No on 51% ahead of Yes on 49%
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536

    Mostly, I think you're right. But 10 DS has 100 rooms, by comparison with which Trudeau's 22-room home looks quite modest:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rideau_Cottage

    That said, Trudeau has separate offices, this is just where he lives.
    You have to feel for anyone forced to live in..... Ottawa. Even the Canadian PM

    Canberra at least has warm weather

    Imagine if the White House was in NYC, Trudeau in Toronto, and the Oz PM in a lovely waterside villa near Sydney Harbour Bridge.

    These countries would all be very different in almost incalculable ways
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,672

    At the last Holyrood election the Tories were lead by Cameron at Westminster and Davidson at Holyrood. Johnson/Ross on track to lose nearly a third of their seats - which is a massive setback under a pseudo-PR system.
    Sarwar's personal popularity does now seem to be pulling Labour up - supporting Mike's theory that leadership ratings are a leading indicator for party support.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,652
    Charles said:

    The palaces (except for Clarence House) are rather grim though.

    I’d look at Carlton Terrace.

    Kick the Privy Council Office out of number 2 and Ken Griffith out of number 3 and you are sorted.

    You might have concentration risk to scare the cops though (the foreign secretary is at number 1)
    I don't really care about keeping the PM in luxury. What I do think they deserve however is more separation from work (living above the shop despite Mrs T's example is not healthy), easy access to outdoor space, room enough to swing a cat, and some privacy.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,898

    Mostly, I think you're right. But 10 DS has 100 rooms, by comparison with which Trudeau's 22-room home looks quite modest:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rideau_Cottage

    That said, Trudeau has separate offices, this is just where he lives.
    Downing Street has 100 rooms?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    Tonights poll 11% lead for Tories.

    SKS 31% adrift of the 20 point we were told any other leader would have.

    Boris saved football bounce!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Mostly, I think you're right. But 10 DS has 100 rooms, by comparison with which Trudeau's 22-room home looks quite modest:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rideau_Cottage

    That said, Trudeau has separate offices, this is just where he lives.
    I would assume that much of Nos 10 and 11 Downing Street consists of office accommodation to house the staff who work there. Until Neville Chamberlain's day in the late 1930s, the PM and Chancellor lived in some of the State Rooms of the building. Campbell - Bannerman died in his bedroom there in Spring 1908 in a room now used for business. The top floor which now provides accommodation for the PM and Chancellor formerly provided living quarters for the servants. I do wonder sometimes whether a PM might be inclined to revert to the precedents of Baldwin, Macdonald , Lloyd George , Asquith et al by opting to live in the main rooms of the house rather than use the flats upstairs.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,672

    Correction 16% Starmer
    Starmer's just less known - most people don't have a strong opinion, but those who have a view tend to think him much more honest. I'm not sure that Johnson would altogether disagree - as he puts it, he tries not to be fussily precise, and I suspect thinks a bit of deviousness is part of the rough and tumble and general merriment of politics. Starmer is definitely seen as a roundhead to Johnson's cavalier, with the advantages and drawbacks thereby associated.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,148
    HYUFD said:

    In 2016 the SCons got 22% on the constituency and list, this poll has them on 20% and 21% so barely any difference, tactical voting from other Unionists to keep the SNP out could still see them hold more constituencies than this poll suggests.

    Overall Survation also has No on 51% ahead of Yes on 49%
    The problem for the Tory constituency seats is that the SNP share of the constituency vote is up quite a bit on 2016 according to this poll - that implies a swing to the SNP, and is why their forecast to pick up constituency seats from the Tories.

    You'd also expect that, all other things being equal, all the changes since 2016 - Brexit, Johnson, Ross - will mean that there is likely to be less Unionist tactical voting for the Tories this time.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,898
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    I have a weird feeling - a change in me waters - that Scottish Labour are about to stage a significant revival

    Sturgeon is now fucking boring. She just is. Sorry. Salmond is a has-been sex-pest. I know the sort.

    Prediction: labour are now at the depth of their nadir, all seems lost, no way back.

    Yet this is not the case. The party was born in scotland and it will revive, again, in Scotland, first.

    Boris will refuse Sindyref2 - to the quiet relief of the majority in Scotland who don’t fancy Brexit 2.0 times a zillion. But the Tories wont benefit, and neither will the Nats (who will split on UDI and all that). The quiet beneficiaries will be Labour, who will seem sane between these two extremes and will cultivate devomax and so forth

    Labour will rebound in Scotland enabling them to take a large chunk of Scottish seats off the Nats in 2024, and maybe win a hung parliament in Westminster. Even if they don’t manage that, they will be sufficiently vibrant in Scotland to win an overall majority in the UK in the next GE after 2024.

    I suddenly see that happening. Dunno why. Might be the excellent curry I just enjoyed

    Labour as the true Party of the Union?
    The only rivals to Scottish, Welsh and English Nationalists all at once?
    It isn't as mad as it maybe seemed even a couple of years ago.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited April 2021

    The problem for the Tory constituency seats is that the SNP share of the constituency vote is up quite a bit on 2016 according to this poll - that implies a swing to the SNP, and is why their forecast to pick up constituency seats from the Tories.

    You'd also expect that, all other things being equal, all the changes since 2016 - Brexit, Johnson, Ross - will mean that there is likely to be less Unionist tactical voting for the Tories this time.
    Polls significantly overestimated the SNP constituency vote in 2016. Apparently - according to reports from a source sympathetic to the SNP on Vote UK Forum - there is some concern in SNP circles regarding Sturgeon's own prospects v Sarwar in her own seat. Canvass returns are not brilliant.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,393
    edited April 2021

    He isn't clean and honest, he's a politician.
    There is a spectrum. It is not necessary that natural grubbiness of being a politician means they have to be egregiously compromised or flawed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    dixiedean said:

    Labour as the true Party of the Union?
    The only rivals to Scottish, Welsh and English Nationalists all at once?
    It isn't as mad as it maybe seemed even a couple of years ago.
    The SNP’s incredible hegemony must end eventually. I see it happening soon as they split between hardcore and civics.

    But the evil Tories won’t benefit. Labour might. And this is where their UK-wide fight back begins. The pendulum swings.

    Just a thought. Night night
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,148
    Leon said:

    I have a weird feeling - a change in me waters - that Scottish Labour are about to stage a significant revival

    Sturgeon is now fucking boring. She just is. Sorry. Salmond is a has-been sex-pest. I know the sort.

    Prediction: labour are now at the depth of their nadir, all seems lost, no way back.

    Yet this is not the case. The party was born in scotland and it will revive, again, in Scotland, first.

    Boris will refuse Sindyref2 - to the quiet relief of the majority in Scotland who don’t fancy Brexit 2.0 times a zillion. But the Tories wont benefit, and neither will the Nats (who will split on UDI and all that). The quiet beneficiaries will be Labour, who will seem sane between these two extremes and will cultivate devomax and so forth

    Labour will rebound in Scotland enabling them to take a large chunk of Scottish seats off the Nats in 2024, and maybe win a hung parliament in Westminster. Even if they don’t manage that, they will be sufficiently vibrant in Scotland to win an overall majority in the UK in the next GE after 2024.

    I suddenly see that happening. Dunno why. Might be the excellent curry I just enjoyed

    I have been positively surprised by Sarwar, but I don't particularly share your optimism.

    If the SNP win 50% of the constituency vote - enough to gain a majority at Holyrood even with zero list seats - and also trounce Alba to the extent that Salmond doesn't win a single seat at Holyrood, then doesn't that represent a triumph for Sturgeon?

    Also, I think that Labour's first step back in Scotland has to be taken at a Holyrood election. I think because otherwise the question of a coalition with the SNP would dominate the campaign for the Westminster election in a way that undermines Labour, in Scotland as well as in England. But Labour are still some way from winning any constituency seats back from the SNP.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,489
    Leon said:

    I have a weird feeling - a change in me waters - that Scottish Labour are about to stage a significant revival

    Sturgeon is now fucking boring. She just is. Sorry. Salmond is a has-been sex-pest. I know the sort.

    Prediction: labour are now at the depth of their nadir, all seems lost, no way back.

    Yet this is not the case. The party was born in scotland and it will revive, again, in Scotland, first.

    Boris will refuse Sindyref2 - to the quiet relief of the majority in Scotland who don’t fancy Brexit 2.0 times a zillion. But the Tories wont benefit, and neither will the Nats (who will split on UDI and all that). The quiet beneficiaries will be Labour, who will seem sane between these two extremes and will cultivate devomax and so forth

    Labour will rebound in Scotland enabling them to take a large chunk of Scottish seats off the Nats in 2024, and maybe win a hung parliament in Westminster. Even if they don’t manage that, they will be sufficiently vibrant in Scotland to win an overall majority in the UK in the next GE after 2024.

    I suddenly see that happening. Dunno why. Might be the excellent curry I just enjoyed

    SLAB gaining votes from the SNP likely results in more SCON MPs.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,898
    dixiedean said:

    Labour as the true Party of the Union?
    The only rivals to Scottish, Welsh and English Nationalists all at once?
    It isn't as mad as it maybe seemed even a couple of years ago.
    Incidentally. This is a role the Canadian Liberals accidentally fell into.
    It has been electorally rich for them.
    They control almost no provinces but continue to win Federally.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kle4 said:

    There is a spectrum. It is not necessary that natural grubbiness of being a politician means they have to be egregiously compromised or flawed.
    No, but it does seem that the better the politician the more . . . political they are.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    When does the trial start?
    Thursday 6 May.

    Verdict due within a few days.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,261
    edited April 2021
    "Jonathan Haidt
    @JonHaidt
    I believe that Twitter is bad for civilization, many people’s mental health, and my sabbatical. So for the next few months, I’ll try using it rarely, mostly to publicize events and praise people, books, and essays.
    10:33 pm · 23 Apr 2021"

    https://twitter.com/JonHaidt/status/1385708351233925124

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/12/social-media-democracy/600763/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    India has recorded nearly a million infections in three days, with 346,786 new cases overnight into Saturday.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    I have a weird feeling - a change in me waters - that Scottish Labour are about to stage a significant revival

    Sturgeon is now fucking boring. She just is. Sorry. Salmond is a has-been sex-pest. I know the sort.

    Prediction: labour are now at the depth of their nadir, all seems lost, no way back.

    Yet this is not the case. The party was born in scotland and it will revive, again, in Scotland, first.

    Boris will refuse Sindyref2 - to the quiet relief of the majority in Scotland who don’t fancy Brexit 2.0 times a zillion. But the Tories wont benefit, and neither will the Nats (who will split on UDI and all that). The quiet beneficiaries will be Labour, who will seem sane between these two extremes and will cultivate devomax and so forth

    Labour will rebound in Scotland enabling them to take a large chunk of Scottish seats off the Nats in 2024, and maybe win a hung parliament in Westminster. Even if they don’t manage that, they will be sufficiently vibrant in Scotland to win an overall majority in the UK in the next GE after 2024.

    I suddenly see that happening. Dunno why. Might be the excellent curry I just enjoyed

    Strikes me that you MAY be on to something here.

    Potential for SLAB gains due to

    > Sturgeon v Salmond soap opera

    > Brexit + Boris

    > SLAB's new leader Sawar better than recent predecessors

    > AND better than new SCON leader Ross.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited April 2021
    Presumably, everyone who’s spend the last couple of years describing Dominic Cummings as a liar who can’t be trusted, now think the sun shines out of his arse and everything he says is true?

    Happy Sunday folks! ;)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,024
    Sandpit said:

    Presumably, everyone who’s spend the last couple of years describing Dominic Cummings as a liar who can’t be trusted, now think the sun shines out of his arse and everything he says is true?

    Happy Sunday folks! ;)

    Other way round. It is the pb Tories who have a problem with Cummings' transition to the dark side. Of course, if Boris is replaced by Gove and Cummings returns, they will have to reverse their reverse ferret.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,284

    If you started sacking all the civil servants who disobeyed or tried to work in the opposite direction to government policy, Whitehall would get rather empty.
    So it’s a win/win?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031

    ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,284
    edited April 2021
    justin124 said:

    Polls significantly overestimated the SNP constituency vote in 2016. Apparently - according to reports from a source sympathetic to the SNP on Vote UK Forum - there is some concern in SNP circles regarding Sturgeon's own prospects v Sarwar in her own seat. Canvass returns are not brilliant.
    That would be the optimal result for the SNP. Majority, and the removal of a controversial, disgraced and exhausted leader so they can start afresh.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,332
    ydoethur said:

    That would be the optimal result for the SNP. Majority, and the removal of a controversial, disgraced and exhausted leader so they can start afresh.
    Isn't she on the list too, so she'd still be in the Parliament.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,024
    It's the Oscars tonight. Whether because of the lockdown closing cinemas or the increased prominence of streaming services, I really don't care enough to have formed an opinion, or even to look up who has been nominated.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,024
    Once he is back from flying his whippet, professional northerner @TheScreamingEagles will be shocked to learn that gravity is racist according to his local university.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/24/isaac-newton-latest-historical-figure-swept-decolonisation-drive/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,451
    Good morning, everyone.

    I'm inclined to agree, Mr. Alex. Doubt it'll happen, though.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,284
    RobD said:

    Isn't she on the list too, so she'd still be in the Parliament.
    She’s second on the list, and it’s very unlikely that the SNP would get more than one list seat in that area unless they had an awful night on the constituencies.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,506

    Once he is back from flying his whippet, professional northerner @TheScreamingEagles will be shocked to learn that gravity is racist according to his local university.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/24/isaac-newton-latest-historical-figure-swept-decolonisation-drive/

    Good Morning everyone. Not quite as bright this morning, but maybe a little warmer, possibly due to cloud cover.

    There is a site where one can check whether anyone's forebears were officially compensated for the loss of their slaves, and I'm pleased to say none of mine appear on it. Of course given my (real) surname I can't be sure.
    And I've no means of knowing whether any of them 'profited; in other ways...... served on slaving ships etc.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,284

    Once he is back from flying his whippet, professional northerner @TheScreamingEagles will be shocked to learn that gravity is racist according to his local university.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/24/isaac-newton-latest-historical-figure-swept-decolonisation-drive/

    Well, of course he was. Everyone in Britain was.

    If they think that somehow invalidates his mathematical and physical work, then they’re even stupider than I thought.

    Such an attitude would make it impossible to teach, say, architecture. Or finance. Or law.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,284

    Good Morning everyone. Not quite as bright this morning, but maybe a little warmer, possibly due to cloud cover.

    There is a site where one can check whether anyone's forebears were officially compensated for the loss of their slaves, and I'm pleased to say none of mine appear on it. Of course given my (real) surname I can't be sure.
    And I've no means of knowing whether any of them 'profited; in other ways...... served on slaving ships etc.
    Everyone in Britain profited from the slave trade. If they didn’t actually trade in them, they still provided the goods traded for slaves in West Africa, and built the ships used for transport, and above all they ate the sugar, smoked the tobacco and wore the cotton that was the upshot of it.

    That does not mean we should suddenly disown everyone involved and pretend it never happened, which - ironically, given their stated aims - is what is actually happening here.
  • Good morning.

    The U.K.‘s request to become an official “Observer” at ASEAN has been agreed overnight.

    ASEAN, the South East Asian economic bloc, has a larger population than the EU, but only about 1/5 the GDP.

    The only other Observers are Papua New Guinea and Timor Leste.

    The U.K. also officially applied for membership of the CPTPP at the end of February.

    Very pleased and of course if the US joins CPTPP then that would be very good news for the whole trading block
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,506
    ydoethur said:

    Everyone in Britain profited from the slave trade. If they didn’t actually trade in them, they still provided the goods traded for slaves in West Africa, and built the ships used for transport, and above all they ate the sugar, smoked the tobacco and wore the cotton that was the upshot of it.

    That does not mean we should suddenly disown everyone involved and pretend it never happened, which - ironically, given their stated aims - is what is actually happening here.
    Indeed; and my wife's ancestors were working in the cotton mills on Lancashire in the 1840's. Whiat they did in the "Cotton Famine' I don't know, and probably never will..
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,024

    Good morning.

    The U.K.‘s request to become an official “Observer” at ASEAN has been agreed overnight.

    ASEAN, the South East Asian economic bloc, has a larger population than the EU, but only about 1/5 the GDP.

    The only other Observers are Papua New Guinea and Timor Leste.

    The U.K. also officially applied for membership of the CPTPP at the end of February.

    Huzzah for Liz Truss. It shows Boris was right to sack Dominic Cummings if he did not even put Parity With Papua New Guinea on the side of the bus.
  • Indeed; and my wife's ancestors were working in the cotton mills on Lancashire in the 1840's. Whiat they did in the "Cotton Famine' I don't know, and probably never will..
    My father and his brother and sister all worked in the Lancashire cotton mills
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,024
    ydoethur said:

    Everyone in Britain profited from the slave trade. If they didn’t actually trade in them, they still provided the goods traded for slaves in West Africa, and built the ships used for transport, and above all they ate the sugar, smoked the tobacco and wore the cotton that was the upshot of it.

    That does not mean we should suddenly disown everyone involved and pretend it never happened, which - ironically, given their stated aims - is what is actually happening here.
    That is the irony. We are in danger of airbrushing slavery out of history.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,182
    edited April 2021
    On the new Scottish poll, if Scotland was running NZ’s electoral system instead of their own pernicious gerrymander, the results would be:

    SNP 48
    Lab 30
    Con 27
    Grn 14
    LDm 10

    Difficult to see whether a government could be formed...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,182

    Huzzah for Liz Truss. It shows Boris was right to sack Dominic Cummings if he did not even put Parity With Papua New Guinea on the side of the bus.
    Papua New Guinea is one of the most anthropologically interesting countries on Earth.

    And, a Commonwealth realm to boot.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,284

    On the new Scottish poll, if Scotland was running NZ’s electoral system instead of their own pernicious gerrymander, the results would be:

    SNP 48
    Lab 30
    Con 27
    Grn 14
    LDm 10

    Difficult to see whether a government could be formed...

    Green/Lab/LD coalition with Tories abstaining on C+S would work, for a time at least.

    Whether the Greens would work in a rainbow coalition is another question.

    I wish we did have the New Zealand system. I could live with that, but the systems we have for Scotland and Wales are a sick joke. Another example of politicians introducing political reform to further their own interests (admittedly not very successfully in the case of Scotland)!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,194
    ydoethur said:

    Everyone in Britain profited from the slave trade. If they didn’t actually trade in them, they still provided the goods traded for slaves in West Africa, and built the ships used for transport, and above all they ate the sugar, smoked the tobacco and wore the cotton that was the upshot of it.

    That does not mean we should suddenly disown everyone involved and pretend it never happened, which - ironically, given their stated aims - is what is actually happening here.
    If they smoked the tobacco, it is unlikely to have benefitted them......
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,284
    edited April 2021

    If they smoked the tobacco, it is unlikely to have benefitted them......
    Given the age at which they died from many other causes until at least the 1920s, the transient pleasure working people got from smoking probably far outweighed the downsides.

    ETA - ditto with sugar.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,506

    My father and his brother and sister all worked in the Lancashire cotton mills
    And, if they were working prior to about 1860 worked with cotton picked by slaves. As ydoethur notes, Lancashire's prosperity, so far as it existed for those low down in 'the heap' was largely built on 'slave products'.

    On a wider point I was struck, while musing the other day, what diverse connections my family has; from Cambodia via Sweden and Switzerland to Ireland. And that's without taking into account those who have emigrated.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,194
    ydoethur said:

    Given the age at which they died from many other causes until at least the 1920s, the transient pleasure working people got from smoking probably far outweighed the downsides.
    Do people get pleasure from smoking? Or does their body feel bad when they are not getting their next hit?

    The two are not the same, at least in my opinion. My lifetime smoking experience is probably in the hundreds of cigarettes but never really got any pleasure from it, not sure if others do, and if so how they distinguish it from their addiction being fed?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,025

    When? In 2019 the key was probably under-the-radar social media campaigning about how Corbyn wanted to disband the armed forces and had applauded the IRA's bombing campaigns.
    They must be full of uneducated people who cannot hear or read or are just stupid obviously.
    No-one of any intelligence above that of a 7 year old could imagine the buffoon is anything other than a lying cheating grifter surrounded by similar types.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,506

    Do people get pleasure from smoking? Or does their body feel bad when they are not getting their next hit?

    The two are not the same, at least in my opinion. My lifetime smoking experience is probably in the hundreds of cigarettes but never really got any pleasure from it, not sure if others do, and if so how they distinguish it from their addiction being fed?
    One of the things I enjoyed about smoking, when I did, was the sociability. "Have a cigarette' was a common opening phrase in a conversation.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,025
    Charles said:

    Except it’s not his flat. It’s a government flat. I know that’s not a justification but it will put enough people off the scent.

    Separately why are we so cheap with government property? Spending £250k on doing up a flat is not that much for a PM.
    Only a supercilious rich Tory arse could come out with crap like that.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Good morning.

    The U.K.‘s request to become an official “Observer” at ASEAN has been agreed overnight.

    ASEAN, the South East Asian economic bloc, has a larger population than the EU, but only about 1/5 the GDP.

    The only other Observers are Papua New Guinea and Timor Leste.

    The U.K. also officially applied for membership of the CPTPP at the end of February.

    So more potential for growth then?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,506
    edited April 2021
    malcolmg said:

    Only a supercilious rich Tory arse could come out with crap like that.
    Yes; even round here one could BUY quite a nice one for that! In a 'desirable' conversion.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,284

    Do people get pleasure from smoking? Or does their body feel bad when they are not getting their next hit?

    The two are not the same, at least in my opinion. My lifetime smoking experience is probably in the hundreds of cigarettes but never really got any pleasure from it, not sure if others do, and if so how they distinguish it from their addiction being fed?
    I’ve never smoked in my life, so I’ve no personal experience to call on. But those of my friends who do, or have, smoked said they did because they liked it. Their experience may be different from yours.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,284

    Yes; even round here one could BUY quite a nice one for that! In a 'desirable' conversion.
    Round here you could buy rather a nice house for that.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Do people get pleasure from smoking? Or does their body feel bad when they are not getting their next hit?

    The two are not the same, at least in my opinion. My lifetime smoking experience is probably in the hundreds of cigarettes but never really got any pleasure from it, not sure if others do, and if so how they distinguish it from their addiction being fed?
    I’ve been told that there are 2-3 cigarettes a day that are pleasurable, with the rest being just habit and barely noticed
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,129
    dixiedean said:

    Labour as the true Party of the Union?
    The only rivals to Scottish, Welsh and English Nationalists all at once?
    It isn't as mad as it maybe seemed even a couple of years ago.
    I wrote an a thread header on that very angle back in February.

    It's a perfectly credible path for Labour to take, but they still have a lot of reforming to do first.
  • I would love to have £250K to blow on a new flat
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,057
    My addiction is oxytocin. That really does give pleasure.
    I get it any way I can. It has been in short supply during lockdown.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Only a supercilious rich Tory arse could come out with crap like that.
    Top of the morning to you as well Malcolm

    My point is that the PM does a high stress job. It is not unreasonable to expect the state to provide reasonable accommodation where they can relax. Penny pinching doesn’t really achieve much.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,025

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Yes we all get our friends to fund our £200K paint job right enough , what a lark.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,129
    Did I miss the coverage of the large lockdown protests in London yesterday?

    I couldn't see a snip on the Beeb, but it might be buried.

    If that is the case then it's just the sort of thing that fuels establishment suppression theories (which I don't believe, by the way).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,073
    Charles said:

    Top of the morning to you as well Malcolm

    My point is that the PM does a high stress job. It is not unreasonable to expect the state to provide reasonable accommodation where they can relax. Penny pinching doesn’t really achieve much.
    apart from saving pennies?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,506
    edited April 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Round here you could buy rather a nice house for that.
    We were talking flats. But one could certainly buy a house here, too. And Eldest Granddaughter and Grandson-in-Law (acting) are not planning on spending anywhere near that on the house they hope to complete on shortly.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    dixiedean said:

    I mean longer term than one campaign. It is a region that has dramatically swung blue over several elections. Much faster than the rest of the nation.
    And the PM polls well there too.
    I don't see why this should necessarily be so.
    Housing.

    New builds in the North and Midlands have been able to be bought by people, allowing them to own their own homes, meaning they're far more likely to be Tory.

    Idiotic councils down South in comparison think pampering NIMBYs is the solution, meaning house prices rise, meaning people can't afford homes, meaning the region is relatively swinging Labour.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,284
    edited April 2021
    malcolmg said:

    Yes we all get our friends to fund our £200K paint job right enough , what a lark.
    If anyone wants to give me a mere £20k towards a new kitchen, driveway and garden, I can start a GoFundMe.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,025

    If proximity to that much gold leaf causes the sort of twathead behaviour we've seen from Macron I'm glad we keep the PM in such squalor.

    However, the apartment does seem to be too cramped, and something should be done.
    Yes a struggle for a couple to survive with only 4 or 5 bedrooms and 3 or 4 public rooms right enough.
    Sure there will be plenty of council tenants happy to do a swap.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,182
    Charles said:

    So more potential for growth then?
    ASEAN?
    Not really, and Observer Status confers no trading privileges.

    But, doesn’t hurt and helps re-orient our diplomatic activity another notch.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    Charles said:

    Top of the morning to you as well Malcolm

    My point is that the PM does a high stress job. It is not unreasonable to expect the state to provide reasonable accommodation where they can relax. Penny pinching doesn’t really achieve much.
    Does that apply to all high stress public sector jobs? Including those getting 1%? Surely those making daily life and death decisions deserve at least the same.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,506

    Housing.

    New builds in the North and Midlands have been able to be bought by people, allowing them to own their own homes, meaning they're far more likely to be Tory.

    Idiotic councils down South in comparison think pampering NIMBYs is the solution, meaning house prices rise, meaning people can't afford homes, meaning the region is relatively swinging Labour.
    NIMBY's vote though. Often Tory!
This discussion has been closed.