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Only in the Midlands and Wales do more people think Johnson’s “clean and honest” over those who thin

SystemSystem Posts: 12,158
edited April 2021 in General
imageOnly in the Midlands and Wales do more people think Johnson’s “clean and honest” over those who think he’s corrupt – politicalbetting.com

The most striking question in tonight’s Opinium poll for the Observer is the one above testing on how many perceive Johnson to be corrupt following the events of recent weeks. It really says something about things at the moment that such a question is included in a major poll.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    First
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    The interesting thing is that in spite of all of this the Tory poll lead gets larger.

    Isn't it? It's almost as if people are happy with the job the Government's doing for the country and don't cast their vote on the basis of silly stories about where Boris gets his wallpaper from...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    First

    Strongly feel it is HIGHLY unethical and immoral for OGH to take advantage of his insider status to grab the coveted "First" on this thred - especially since he's the author.

    SO why isn't Mike in the Cabinet? Clearly he's just passed the "first" test!
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,773
    That looks like a remain/leave split to me.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,126
    edited April 2021
    This poll seems to have been taken before the Cummings stramash, as mentioned .
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834
    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    No, or not yet. I am trying to remember the course of the Tory sleaze surrounding the Major government. My suspicion is decorating the flat might have more cut-through, if and when we ever get the details, which is probably why we will not get the details.
  • This poll seems to have been taken before the Cummings stramash, as mentioned .

    21st to 23rd according to Opinium so upto yesterday

    However, it is a good point and more polls will no doubt be along shortly
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396
    All caveats, such as Leave Remain, age, etc still don't adequately explain the PM and the Tories resounding success in the Midlands.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,539
    edited April 2021
    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    The lady in the newsagents this morning looked at Cummings on the front of virtually every paper "Boris is very lucky in his enemies - having somebody the nation loathes!"

    Then she ended it with "Poor Boris." Which is why he is still riding high with the voters, to the consternation of the legions of Boris-bashers.

    Detecting no diminishing of support for the Blues on the doorstep. Even had ex-Tories who went LD in 2019 coming back to the fold today.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,864
    FPT:
    moonshine said:

    stodge said:

    Just looking at the latest vaccination figures for Newham:

    Among those aged over 70, 14,215 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 17,825 have received a first vaccination so that's just shy of 80%.

    Among those over 50, 61,801 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 88,113 have received a first vaccination which is just over 70%.

    Essentially, there are 3,610 older people over 70 in my Borough with no protection from Covid-19. In addition, a further 22,200 people over 50 have no protection either at this time.

    That concerns me as there's plenty of fuel for the next virus wave.

    Oh well. They’ve had their chance. Get yours and get on with your life.
    Both Mrs Stodge and I have our second vaccinations booked for next month. I'm not worried for either of us on that basis.

    The concern is for those people and what may happen in the autumn and winter if the virus returns and we see case numbers start to rise among the unvaccinated.

    Again, the concern is partly for those individuals but more those close to the decision-making process will see rising case numbers and insist on a new lockdown. Locking down the country because of a small number of vaccine "refuseniks" seems the height of folly but that's where we may end up.

    I have every sympathy for the tiny number who cannot have the vaccine for medical reasons but those whose refusals are for other reasons and then dragging the rest of us back - that's not something with which I would be happy.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396
    Also "clean and honest" v "corrupt".
    That is a matter of where you personally draw the line.
    There's a heck of a lot of grey in between.
  • TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    No, or not yet. I am trying to remember the course of the Tory sleaze surrounding the Major government. My suspicion is decorating the flat might have more cut-through, if and when we ever get the details, which is probably why we will not get the details.
    If Boris's advisors are sensible they will release the full detail two days before Cummings appears on the 26th May before the committee

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    I can remember that many PBers were under the impression that "Joe Normal" didn't care a hoot about Cummings when he broke quarantine.

    Which IIRC turned out NOT to be the case.

    Personally doubt the wallpapering of No 10 is gonna derail the PM. Though it might take a few points off of Tory performance next month. (Appears that happened in Germany in their recent state elections due to sleaze allegations against some CDU politicos.)

    But whatever the May results, certainly embellishes BoJo's well-earned reputation as a first-class grifter.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834
    dixiedean said:

    All caveats, such as Leave Remain, age, etc still don't adequately explain the PM and the Tories resounding success in the Midlands.

    When? In 2019 the key was probably under-the-radar social media campaigning about how Corbyn wanted to disband the armed forces and had applauded the IRA's bombing campaigns.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    No, or not yet. I am trying to remember the course of the Tory sleaze surrounding the Major government. My suspicion is decorating the flat might have more cut-through, if and when we ever get the details, which is probably why we will not get the details.
    If Boris's advisors are sensible they will release the full detail two days before Cummings appears on the 26th May before the committee

    "If Boris's advisors are sensible" - which is pretty iffy, ain't it?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,864
    FPT
    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Just looking at the latest vaccination figures for Newham:

    Among those aged over 70, 14,215 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 17,825 have received a first vaccination so that's just shy of 80%.

    Among those over 50, 61,801 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 88,113 have received a first vaccination which is just over 70%.

    Essentially, there are 3,610 older people over 70 in my Borough with no protection from Covid-19. In addition, a further 22,200 people over 50 have no protection either at this time.

    That concerns me as there's plenty of fuel for the next virus wave.

    So are assuming they are real people not voters invented for electoral benefit
    I'm basing the numbers on the NIMS population estimates. I accept that may be inaccurate but I don't understand the "voters invented for electoral benefit" comment?

    Would you care to explain that to the rest of us?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    dixiedean said:

    Also "clean and honest" v "corrupt".
    That is a matter of where you personally draw the line.
    There's a heck of a lot of grey in between.

    Indeed.

    Note that a major part of Trumpsky's formula for (sometimes) electoral success, is the widespread belief that ALL politicos are crooked as country roads. But at least The Donald is honest about it!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,177
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Cummings fires ANOTHER broadside at Boris: Now vengeful ex-advisor suggests Britain's failure to close its borders at start of pandemic was a 'disaster' after bombshell accusations of incompetence and borderline illegality

    Former No10 aide suggested scientific consensus that travel bans wouldn't prevent Covid was flawed
    Mr Cummings tweeted this was a 'very important issue re learning from the disaster', in response to a thread
    Mr Cummings yesterday made clear he was prepared to criticise the Government he only recently departed
    In a blog post he accused the PM of trying to block a leak inquiry that implicated a friend of his fiancée"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9506983/Cummings-fires-broadside-Boris.html

    Another issue that Starmer should be hammering rather than Cummings.
    Yet all the govt did was follow the advice of Public Health England, the CMO and World Health Organisation. So attack on the govt simply attacks these. They have an easy rebuttal.
    Public Health England were advising the government on whether to close the border? Why?
    That’s a question best aimed at them
    The question of whether closing the border would make a difference was asked.

    And it seems clear from what we have heard, that the various experts said that closing the borders wasn't medically effective.
    Exactly. The govt has made plenty of errors for sure but in this case they followed the advice, as they did with releasing people back into care homes (PHE) yet none of the bodies that gave the advice is held to account. Merely treated with deference,
    Last year, I posted here about the following - civil servants were appalled to discover that ministers would refuse to accept responsibility at an eventual COVID enquiry for actions by permanent officials that *went against* Ministerial decisions.

    That is, civil servants were appalled that in the case

    - Minster say "do A"
    - Civil servant does "B" - without informing the minister first
    - Minster says that he will name the civil servant who did "B" and deny responsibility for his/her actions.

    Apparently this is a shocking breach of responsibility.

    There is a long tradition of this kind of comedy. Before the Falklands war, an MI6 officer in Argentina tried to raise an alarm about certain preparations he saw. The mandarins in the Foreign Office demanded that his reports he suppressed and he be disciplined - for upsetting *their* policies....
    And Lord Carrington resigned because honourable ministers accepted responsibility for their departments. The point was also made in Yes Minister, iirc. Nowadays, ministers are responsible for nothing.
    Whatever the doctrine of ministerial responsibility, any civil servant who disobeys a direct ministerial instruction has to be sacked. It is a negation of parliamentary democracy and unacceptable.

    In the Carrington case, it was largely that he didn’t have an adequate answer when asked why he didn’t know what was going on, plus his very thin skin, that brought him down.
    If you started sacking all the civil servants who disobeyed or tried to work in the opposite direction to government policy, Whitehall would get rather empty.

    It is quite common, for example, when ministers change over, for the new minister to discover that actions have been carried out in his/her name without authorisation. And it is considered rude to reverse them - even when they are against the inclinations of the minister in question.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396

    dixiedean said:

    All caveats, such as Leave Remain, age, etc still don't adequately explain the PM and the Tories resounding success in the Midlands.

    When? In 2019 the key was probably under-the-radar social media campaigning about how Corbyn wanted to disband the armed forces and had applauded the IRA's bombing campaigns.
    I mean longer term than one campaign. It is a region that has dramatically swung blue over several elections. Much faster than the rest of the nation.
    And the PM polls well there too.
    I don't see why this should necessarily be so.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    stodge said:

    FPT

    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Just looking at the latest vaccination figures for Newham:

    Among those aged over 70, 14,215 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 17,825 have received a first vaccination so that's just shy of 80%.

    Among those over 50, 61,801 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 88,113 have received a first vaccination which is just over 70%.

    Essentially, there are 3,610 older people over 70 in my Borough with no protection from Covid-19. In addition, a further 22,200 people over 50 have no protection either at this time.

    That concerns me as there's plenty of fuel for the next virus wave.

    So are assuming they are real people not voters invented for electoral benefit
    I'm basing the numbers on the NIMS population estimates. I accept that may be inaccurate but I don't understand the "voters invented for electoral benefit" comment?

    Would you care to explain that to the rest of us?
    Believe 's saying the electoral rolls there have certain % of ghost voters. Either manufactured deliberately OR just deadwood - folks who have moved or died but are still on the rolls.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,008
    edited April 2021

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    No, or not yet. I am trying to remember the course of the Tory sleaze surrounding the Major government. My suspicion is decorating the flat might have more cut-through, if and when we ever get the details, which is probably why we will not get the details.
    If Boris's advisors are sensible they will release the full detail two days before Cummings appears on the 26th May before the committee

    "If Boris's advisors are sensible" - which is pretty iffy, ain't it?
    Maybe they are reading my posts for ideas !!!!!!!!!!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    All caveats, such as Leave Remain, age, etc still don't adequately explain the PM and the Tories resounding success in the Midlands.

    When? In 2019 the key was probably under-the-radar social media campaigning about how Corbyn wanted to disband the armed forces and had applauded the IRA's bombing campaigns.
    I mean longer term than one campaign. It is a region that has dramatically swung blue over several elections. Much faster than the rest of the nation.
    And the PM polls well there too.
    I don't see why this should necessarily be so.
    Welsh factor? Aren't there plenty of Cambrian expats in Birmingham & vicinity?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,171
    stodge said:

    FPT:

    moonshine said:

    stodge said:

    Just looking at the latest vaccination figures for Newham:

    Among those aged over 70, 14,215 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 17,825 have received a first vaccination so that's just shy of 80%.

    Among those over 50, 61,801 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 88,113 have received a first vaccination which is just over 70%.

    Essentially, there are 3,610 older people over 70 in my Borough with no protection from Covid-19. In addition, a further 22,200 people over 50 have no protection either at this time.

    That concerns me as there's plenty of fuel for the next virus wave.

    Oh well. They’ve had their chance. Get yours and get on with your life.
    Both Mrs Stodge and I have our second vaccinations booked for next month. I'm not worried for either of us on that basis.

    The concern is for those people and what may happen in the autumn and winter if the virus returns and we see case numbers start to rise among the unvaccinated.

    Again, the concern is partly for those individuals but more those close to the decision-making process will see rising case numbers and insist on a new lockdown. Locking down the country because of a small number of vaccine "refuseniks" seems the height of folly but that's where we may end up.

    I have every sympathy for the tiny number who cannot have the vaccine for medical reasons but those whose refusals are for other reasons and then dragging the rest of us back - that's not something with which I would be happy.
    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    No, or not yet. I am trying to remember the course of the Tory sleaze surrounding the Major government. My suspicion is decorating the flat might have more cut-through, if and when we ever get the details, which is probably why we will not get the details.
    If Boris's advisors are sensible they will release the full detail two days before Cummings appears on the 26th May before the committee

    "If Boris's advisors are sensible" - which is pretty iffy, ain't it?
    Maybe they are reading my posts for ideas !!!!!!!!!!
    They could do worse. And usually do!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,864
    edited April 2021

    stodge said:

    FPT

    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Just looking at the latest vaccination figures for Newham:

    Among those aged over 70, 14,215 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 17,825 have received a first vaccination so that's just shy of 80%.

    Among those over 50, 61,801 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 88,113 have received a first vaccination which is just over 70%.

    Essentially, there are 3,610 older people over 70 in my Borough with no protection from Covid-19. In addition, a further 22,200 people over 50 have no protection either at this time.

    That concerns me as there's plenty of fuel for the next virus wave.

    So are assuming they are real people not voters invented for electoral benefit
    I'm basing the numbers on the NIMS population estimates. I accept that may be inaccurate but I don't understand the "voters invented for electoral benefit" comment?

    Would you care to explain that to the rest of us?
    Believe 's saying the electoral rolls there have certain % of ghost voters. Either manufactured deliberately OR just deadwood - folks who have moved or died but are still on the rolls.
    In Newham, there are also a number of people who aren't on any Government database. There are, I suspect, individuals who live wholly within a particular community and have little or no contact outside that community. They work with and live with other members of that community and exist largely in a cash environment.

    I would also suspect they haven't been vaccinated so I don't know where the "truth" is but I note the disparity between Newham and areas such as Surrey and Hampshire so I'm left with questions and concerns.

    Putting it down to some form of statistical quirk seems risky.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    stodge said:

    FPT

    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Just looking at the latest vaccination figures for Newham:

    Among those aged over 70, 14,215 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 17,825 have received a first vaccination so that's just shy of 80%.

    Among those over 50, 61,801 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 88,113 have received a first vaccination which is just over 70%.

    Essentially, there are 3,610 older people over 70 in my Borough with no protection from Covid-19. In addition, a further 22,200 people over 50 have no protection either at this time.

    That concerns me as there's plenty of fuel for the next virus wave.

    So are assuming they are real people not voters invented for electoral benefit
    I'm basing the numbers on the NIMS population estimates. I accept that may be inaccurate but I don't understand the "voters invented for electoral benefit" comment?

    Would you care to explain that to the rest of us?
    Believe 's saying the electoral rolls there have certain % of ghost voters. Either manufactured deliberately OR just deadwood - folks who have moved or died but are still on the rolls.
    Twelve postal votes dropping through the letter box of a two bedroom flat. Nothing to see here.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    edited April 2021
    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Cummings is known very widely, but only as the Barnard Castle eyetest excuse for breaking covid lockdown rules.

    If I had a £ for every time someone I have spoken to/overhead who has made the 'well, we did a bit of a Barnard Castle' line and had mates round, slipped away for weekend, had mum overnight, did kids party in garden etc then I would be richer than Elon Musk.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,864
    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,177
    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Snipers with dart guns. It's the only way.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,177
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    FPT

    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Just looking at the latest vaccination figures for Newham:

    Among those aged over 70, 14,215 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 17,825 have received a first vaccination so that's just shy of 80%.

    Among those over 50, 61,801 out of an estimated (NIMS) population of 88,113 have received a first vaccination which is just over 70%.

    Essentially, there are 3,610 older people over 70 in my Borough with no protection from Covid-19. In addition, a further 22,200 people over 50 have no protection either at this time.

    That concerns me as there's plenty of fuel for the next virus wave.

    So are assuming they are real people not voters invented for electoral benefit
    I'm basing the numbers on the NIMS population estimates. I accept that may be inaccurate but I don't understand the "voters invented for electoral benefit" comment?

    Would you care to explain that to the rest of us?
    Believe 's saying the electoral rolls there have certain % of ghost voters. Either manufactured deliberately OR just deadwood - folks who have moved or died but are still on the rolls.
    In Newham, there are also a number of people who aren't on any Government database. There are, I suspect, individuals who live wholly within a particular community and have little or no contact outside that community. They work with and live with other members of that community and exist largely in a cash environment.

    I would also suspect they haven't been vaccinated so I don't know where the "truth" is but I note the disparity between Newham and areas such as Surrey and Hampshire so I'm left with questions and concerns.

    Putting it down to some form of statistical quirk seems risky.
    The NIMS data is based on the predictions of population cohorts "moving up" and things like actual contact with actual people. GPs parent lists etc.

    In many ways, as I understand it, it is a kind of census.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    Will it though? We just don't know. If the herd immunity level is say 70% then the fact that may 10% of people refuse vaccine and another 5% can't for medical reasons should still mean it fails to spark into a firestorm.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Re: Vac uptake, perhaps it would help IF folks were given a free toaster or somesuch for getting jabbed.

    When I got mine (both time) asked if we were gonna get a cookie after my jab - both times the nurse just laughed!

    Seriously, a few freebies might go a LOOOOOOOONG way to helping this cause.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,583
    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834
    edited April 2021
    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    (I think you are in America so may have missed this.) The BBC's current hit show, Line of Duty, about police corruption, included the main character exploding, ostensibly about the Chief Constable:
    ... a bare faced liar promoted to the highest office ... when did we stop caring about honesty and integrity?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,177

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    Will it though? We just don't know. If the herd immunity level is say 70% then the fact that may 10% of people refuse vaccine and another 5% can't for medical reasons should still mean it fails to spark into a firestorm.
    It seems to be infectious enough to "get" to even quite isolated groups. The vaccinations are very effective at preventing hospitalisation and death, but they seem to leave a considerable measure of low or non-symptom COVID being passed around.

    And then there is our old friend - travel from abroad.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    edited April 2021
    Isn't the most interesting thing about the poll that the Tory lead with opinium is now 11% whereas a month ago it was 4%.? Of course then that was the header....
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    (I think you are in America so may have missed this.) The BBC's current hit show, Line of Duty, about police corruption, included the main character exploding, ostensibly about the Chief Constable:
    ... a bare faced liar promoted to the highest office ... when did we stop caring about honesty and integrity?
    Thanks. Yes, in the US.

    TV shows over here often have quite contemporaneous political and social references - sometimes quite well disguised, other times barely disguised from the news headlines at all.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    Re: Vac uptake, perhaps it would help IF folks were given a free toaster or somesuch for getting jabbed.

    When I got mine (both time) asked if we were gonna get a cookie after my jab - both times the nurse just laughed!

    Seriously, a few freebies might go a LOOOOOOOONG way to helping this cause.

    I would have thought in places where the herb is legal they could offer you a toke to calm your nerves ;)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited April 2021
    I presume when this poll was taken the "sleaze" against Boris being raised at the time was the Dyson stuff, which I don't think it made him look bad, it made him look like he was doing everything possible to get ventilators.
  • I presume when this poll was taken the "sleaze" against Boris being raised at the time was the Dyson stuff, which I don't think it made him look bad, it made him look like he was doing everything possible to get ventilators.

    The other question is, is Boris teflon coated
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    I presume when this poll was taken the "sleaze" against Boris being raised at the time was the Dyson stuff, which I don't think it made him look bad, it made him look like he was doing everything possible to get ventilators.

    The other question is, is Boris teflon coated
    Easily ruined with a metal spoon?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977

    The other question is, is Boris teflon coated

    Watch the movie Dark Waters...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    I presume when this poll was taken the "sleaze" against Boris being raised at the time was the Dyson stuff, which I don't think it made him look bad, it made him look like he was doing everything possible to get ventilators.

    The other question is, is Boris teflon coated
    Easily ruined with a metal spoon?
    You mean, like this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y
  • Scott_xP said:

    The other question is, is Boris teflon coated

    Watch the movie Dark Waters...
    Actually I do not watch films

    I think the last st one I went to a cinema to see was the railway children
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: No10 fears Cummings bombshell dossier #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1386060073659736064/photo/1
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited April 2021

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
    Today, I am not sure the public care much about the wallpaper business, as long as it isn't the taxpayer. Everybody knows business / unions give politicians all sorts of freebies, and they aren't all doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I think the anger is much greater when it is seen we are paying for politicians to enrich themselves e.g. expenses scandal or that there was so dodgy business went on and public money resulted in nothing i.e. why I think the PPE stuff hasn't really landed massively, as again the government for the most part got lots of PPE in emergency situation, even if it appears to be friends of friends and it doesn't look good.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    All i know reading the threads the past 2 days is that Scottn'Paste has been w****ng out the tweets like his life depended on it with precious little reward for it. Oh well! Never mind eh.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,765

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    It didn't last summer.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
    Today, I am not sure the public care much about the wallpaper business, as long as it isn't the taxpayer. Everybody knows business / unions give politicians all sorts of freebies, and they aren't all doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I think the anger is much greater when it is seen we are paying for politicians to enrich themselves e.g. expenses scandal or that there was so dodgy business went on and public money resulted in nothing i.e. why I think the PPE stuff hasn't really landed, as again the government for the most part got lots of PPE, even if it appears to be friends of friends.
    If I were Labour, I'd ignore Boris and try to nail HMG over planning permission for Desmond, and the millions for Tory marginals under whatever the programme is called.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,340
    Pub-in-a-shed next door has experienced its first drunken brawl.

    For some reason I did not anticipate this.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited April 2021

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
    Today, I am not sure the public care much about the wallpaper business, as long as it isn't the taxpayer. Everybody knows business / unions give politicians all sorts of freebies, and they aren't all doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I think the anger is much greater when it is seen we are paying for politicians to enrich themselves e.g. expenses scandal or that there was so dodgy business went on and public money resulted in nothing i.e. why I think the PPE stuff hasn't really landed, as again the government for the most part got lots of PPE, even if it appears to be friends of friends.
    If I were Labour, I'd ignore Boris and try to nail HMG over planning permission for Desmond, and the millions for Tory marginals under whatever the programme is called.
    Again, I am not sure that really resonates.

    I think I would stick to an approach of preaching ensuring getting value for money for public contracts. I think while people think the Tories have given contracts to their mates, Labour under Jezza screamed we will nationalize everything, which a lot of the public equate with inefficiency, expense and wasting taxpayer money.

    I think Labour need to try to build a reputation that they will be careful with public money, ensuring best value etc. That is the vision Blair sold, more public spending, but we aren't against the private sector if they can deliver a better service / value for money.

    Now you can argue about that meant lots of use of Capita etc, but the public bought it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,177
    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    It didn't last summer.
    We didn't simply unlock and let things go. When cases rose again, we re-introduced restriction and finally, lockdown.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Sunday's INDEPENDENT: EU nations rule out deals with U.K. on deportation #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1386064264981590019/photo/1
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,394
    He isn't clean and honest, and that shames Britain.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,177

    Pub-in-a-shed next door has experienced its first drunken brawl.

    For some reason I did not anticipate this.

    Much as football leading to drunken violence has been a constant since medieval times....

    Which King was it who wanted to ban Sunday football on the basis that it was safer for everyone to be out practising with their longbows?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    It didn't last summer.
    We didn't simply unlock and let things go. When cases rose again, we re-introduced restriction and finally, lockdown.
    how is the government going to persuade vaccinated people to lockdown again in the autumn to 'save' the unvaccinated?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Pub-in-a-shed next door has experienced its first drunken brawl.

    For some reason I did not anticipate this.

    Much as football leading to drunken violence has been a constant since medieval times....

    Which King was it who wanted to ban Sunday football on the basis that it was safer for everyone to be out practising with their longbows?
    Edward II, and my understanding is he succeeded.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    (I think you are in America so may have missed this.) The BBC's current hit show, Line of Duty, about police corruption, included the main character exploding, ostensibly about the Chief Constable:
    ... a bare faced liar promoted to the highest office ... when did we stop caring about honesty and integrity?
    Thanks. Yes, in the US.

    TV shows over here often have quite contemporaneous political and social references - sometimes quite well disguised, other times barely disguised from the news headlines at all.
    "Line of Duty" has done it a lot this year, mentioning Jimmy Savile by name, directly referencing the raid on Cliff Richard's house and a barely fictionalised recount of the Stephen Lawrence case.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Another time when gross numbers matter more than net.

    Gross 37% say there's an issue - which is basically just opposition core. Not gone beyond that.

    As for anyone else, innocent until proven guilty applies. 63% do not say there is an issue.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,583

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    It didn't last summer.
    We didn't simply unlock and let things go. When cases rose again, we re-introduced restriction and finally, lockdown.
    Even in Newham over half will be vaccinated with plenty more having acquired immunity.

    The number of vulnerable will be far less than it was last autumn.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    He isn't clean and honest, and that shames Britain.

    He isn't clean and honest, he's a politician.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    dixiedean said:

    All caveats, such as Leave Remain, age, etc still don't adequately explain the PM and the Tories resounding success in the Midlands.

    My thoughts exactly. What's going on up/down there in the Midlands? Is it our Ohio?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,177
    edited April 2021
    Endillion said:

    Pub-in-a-shed next door has experienced its first drunken brawl.

    For some reason I did not anticipate this.

    Much as football leading to drunken violence has been a constant since medieval times....

    Which King was it who wanted to ban Sunday football on the basis that it was safer for everyone to be out practising with their longbows?
    Edward II, and my understanding is he succeeded.
    I just like the idea of the modern version - "To save the country - ban football. Give every Rangers fan an AR-15 and make practise mandatory....."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960

    He isn't clean and honest, and that shames Britain.

    He isn't clean and honest, he's a politician.
    Where politicians get in the most trouble is if they go around telling everybody they are whiter than white and people should be much more like them i.e. the old back to basics.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,177

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    It didn't last summer.
    We didn't simply unlock and let things go. When cases rose again, we re-introduced restriction and finally, lockdown.
    how is the government going to persuade vaccinated people to lockdown again in the autumn to 'save' the unvaccinated?
    I don't think they will. But there will be an interesting moral moment.....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Pub-in-a-shed next door has experienced its first drunken brawl.

    For some reason I did not anticipate this.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEsBYtjsGGI
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396
    dodrade said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    (I think you are in America so may have missed this.) The BBC's current hit show, Line of Duty, about police corruption, included the main character exploding, ostensibly about the Chief Constable:
    ... a bare faced liar promoted to the highest office ... when did we stop caring about honesty and integrity?
    Thanks. Yes, in the US.

    TV shows over here often have quite contemporaneous political and social references - sometimes quite well disguised, other times barely disguised from the news headlines at all.
    "Line of Duty" has done it a lot this year, mentioning Jimmy Savile by name, directly referencing the raid on Cliff Richard's house and a barely fictionalised recount of the Stephen Lawrence case.

    The first two have been recurring themes through previous series.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    dodrade said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    (I think you are in America so may have missed this.) The BBC's current hit show, Line of Duty, about police corruption, included the main character exploding, ostensibly about the Chief Constable:
    ... a bare faced liar promoted to the highest office ... when did we stop caring about honesty and integrity?
    Thanks. Yes, in the US.

    TV shows over here often have quite contemporaneous political and social references - sometimes quite well disguised, other times barely disguised from the news headlines at all.
    "Line of Duty" has done it a lot this year, mentioning Jimmy Savile by name, directly referencing the raid on Cliff Richard's house and a barely fictionalised recount of the Stephen Lawrence case.

    The manner of Gail Vella's murder is also virtually identical to Jill Dando's.

    - Prominent journalist
    - Shot on her doorstep
    - Hard contact technique
    - No witnesses
    - Twin theories of contract killer or crazed fan
    - No leads for many months
    - Mentally handicapped suspect arrested, minimal forensic evidence
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    It didn't last summer.
    We didn't simply unlock and let things go. When cases rose again, we re-introduced restriction and finally, lockdown.
    how is the government going to persuade vaccinated people to lockdown again in the autumn to 'save' the unvaccinated?
    Not a problem for many (the willingness to lock down has been consistently underestimated here) - if infections soar again, older people in particular will remember that 90% is not 100% and stay at home. This is 1917 - people feel we're winning the war, but don't want to be the last ones to fall.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
    Today, I am not sure the public care much about the wallpaper business, as long as it isn't the taxpayer. Everybody knows business / unions give politicians all sorts of freebies, and they aren't all doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I think the anger is much greater when it is seen we are paying for politicians to enrich themselves e.g. expenses scandal or that there was so dodgy business went on and public money resulted in nothing i.e. why I think the PPE stuff hasn't really landed massively, as again the government for the most part got lots of PPE in emergency situation, even if it appears to be friends of friends and it doesn't look good.
    But the billions wasted on track and trace didn't cut through either. I'm inclined to think the pandemic has upended normal rules. This will surely change though. Hence why I really am determined to stick to my mantra of let's see how things look in a year from now. In the meantime I'll be looking carefully at the Starmer Next PM price. If that goes north of 6 I'll be having some. Anything like 7 and I'll be gorging.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited April 2021
    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
    Today, I am not sure the public care much about the wallpaper business, as long as it isn't the taxpayer. Everybody knows business / unions give politicians all sorts of freebies, and they aren't all doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I think the anger is much greater when it is seen we are paying for politicians to enrich themselves e.g. expenses scandal or that there was so dodgy business went on and public money resulted in nothing i.e. why I think the PPE stuff hasn't really landed massively, as again the government for the most part got lots of PPE in emergency situation, even if it appears to be friends of friends and it doesn't look good.
    But the billions wasted on track and trace didn't cut through either. I'm inclined to think the pandemic has upended normal rules. This will surely change though. Hence why I really am determined to stick to my mantra of let's see how things look in a year from now. In the meantime I'll be looking carefully at the Starmer Next PM price. If that goes north of 6 I'll be having some. Anything like 7 and I'll be gorging.
    I think track and trace did cut through to some extent, Tory lead went right down to where it was neck and neck at Christmas. There was a definitely a feeling of the Tories are spending all this money and we aren't getting anything for it, and to make it worse its mates getting hired, and now we are back in bloody lockdown.

    The Tories have pulled ahead, because of the vaccination roll out, where accusations of mates getting hired has been nullified by a very good person doing a very good job.

    I do think a certain amount of wastage is given more leeway during the pandemic e.g. when there are reports testing cost x, do we need to do quite so many per day, I think the public say I don't care how much it costs as long as everybody who gets a test can access one. Or that within billions of bits of PPE, there we some duff stuff, as long as there is enough of it.

    What will change though is as we emerge from the pandemic, there are going to be tough decisions and that is when there is the biggest danger for the sort of cronyism mixed with incompetence. Telling people there is no money, then been seen to spend a load with a friend for very little is when you get in real trouble.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    It didn't last summer.
    We didn't simply unlock and let things go. When cases rose again, we re-introduced restriction and finally, lockdown.
    how is the government going to persuade vaccinated people to lockdown again in the autumn to 'save' the unvaccinated?
    I don't think they will. But there will be an interesting moral moment.....
    It will mostly be confined to specific urban areas, so it would be fair to turn the question over to the respective mayors. The next question would be whether Sadiq Khan would shutdown "his" parts of East London, or try to turn the issue back to the Government.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522
    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: No10 fears Cummings bombshell dossier #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1386060073659736064/photo/1

    Do we know when he'll be appearing before the committee(s)?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,177
    Endillion said:

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    It didn't last summer.
    We didn't simply unlock and let things go. When cases rose again, we re-introduced restriction and finally, lockdown.
    how is the government going to persuade vaccinated people to lockdown again in the autumn to 'save' the unvaccinated?
    I don't think they will. But there will be an interesting moral moment.....
    It will mostly be confined to specific urban areas, so it would be fair to turn the question over to the respective mayors. The next question would be whether Sadiq Khan would shutdown "his" parts of East London, or try to turn the issue back to the Government.
    Well, consider the definition of "institutional racism" and the headlines for the Guardian write themselves.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    Another time when gross numbers matter more than net.

    Gross 37% say there's an issue - which is basically just opposition core. Not gone beyond that.

    As for anyone else, innocent until proven guilty applies. 63% do not say there is an issue.

    When does the trial start?
  • Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: No10 fears Cummings bombshell dossier #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1386060073659736064/photo/1

    Do we know when he'll be appearing before the committee(s)?
    I understand it is the 26th May
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
    Today, I am not sure the public care much about the wallpaper business, as long as it isn't the taxpayer. Everybody knows business / unions give politicians all sorts of freebies, and they aren't all doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I think the anger is much greater when it is seen we are paying for politicians to enrich themselves e.g. expenses scandal or that there was so dodgy business went on and public money resulted in nothing i.e. why I think the PPE stuff hasn't really landed massively, as again the government for the most part got lots of PPE in emergency situation, even if it appears to be friends of friends and it doesn't look good.
    But the billions wasted on track and trace didn't cut through either. I'm inclined to think the pandemic has upended normal rules. This will surely change though. Hence why I really am determined to stick to my mantra of let's see how things look in a year from now. In the meantime I'll be looking carefully at the Starmer Next PM price. If that goes north of 6 I'll be having some. Anything like 7 and I'll be gorging.
    I think track and trace did cut through to some extent, Tory lead went right down to where it was neck and neck at Christmas. There was a definitely a feeling of the Tories are spending all this money and we aren't getting anything for it, and to make it worse its mates getting hired, and now we are back in bloody lockdown.

    The Tories have pulled ahead, because of the vaccination roll out, where accusations of mates getting hired has been nullified by a very good person doing a very good job.

    I do think a certain amount of wastage is given more leeway during the pandemic e.g. when there are reports testing cost x, do we need to do quite so many per day, I think the public say I don't care how much it costs as long as everybody who gets a test can access one. Or that within billions of bits of PPE, there we some duff stuff, as long as there is enough of it.

    What will change though is as we emerge from the pandemic, there are going to be tough decisions and that is when there is the biggest danger for the sort of cronyism mixed with incompetence. Telling people there is no money, then been seen to spend a load with a friend for very little is when you get in real trouble.
    Yes perhaps it is mainly due to the vaccine success.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:



    Not a chance that we lockdown because of anti-vaxxers.

    I wish I shared your confidence though I accept it will be political suicide for Johnson to lead us into another lockdown unless there were a brand new vaccine-resistant virus at work.

    The concern is a spike in cases among the unvaccinated being used as an excuse for another lockdown in some areas - Newham being one.
    Well, when we fully unlock, my guesstimate is that COVID will go through the less vaccinated groups like a chainsaw.

    What should be done about that?
    It didn't last summer.
    We didn't simply unlock and let things go. When cases rose again, we re-introduced restriction and finally, lockdown.
    how is the government going to persuade vaccinated people to lockdown again in the autumn to 'save' the unvaccinated?
    I don't think they will. But there will be an interesting moral moment.....
    It will mostly be confined to specific urban areas, so it would be fair to turn the question over to the respective mayors. The next question would be whether Sadiq Khan would shutdown "his" parts of East London, or try to turn the issue back to the Government.
    Well, consider the definition of "institutional racism" and the headlines for the Guardian write themselves.....
    Are the spelling errors auto-included, or do the subs have to put those in manually?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977

    Do we know when he'll be appearing before the committee(s)?

    26th May is the date I have seen
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
    Today, I am not sure the public care much about the wallpaper business, as long as it isn't the taxpayer. Everybody knows business / unions give politicians all sorts of freebies, and they aren't all doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I think the anger is much greater when it is seen we are paying for politicians to enrich themselves e.g. expenses scandal or that there was so dodgy business went on and public money resulted in nothing i.e. why I think the PPE stuff hasn't really landed massively, as again the government for the most part got lots of PPE in emergency situation, even if it appears to be friends of friends and it doesn't look good.
    But the billions wasted on track and trace didn't cut through either. I'm inclined to think the pandemic has upended normal rules. This will surely change though. Hence why I really am determined to stick to my mantra of let's see how things look in a year from now. In the meantime I'll be looking carefully at the Starmer Next PM price. If that goes north of 6 I'll be having some. Anything like 7 and I'll be gorging.
    I think track and trace did cut through to some extent, Tory lead went right down to where it was neck and neck at Christmas. There was a definitely a feeling of the Tories are spending all this money and we aren't getting anything for it, and to make it worse its mates getting hired, and now we are back in bloody lockdown.

    The Tories have pulled ahead, because of the vaccination roll out, where accusations of mates getting hired has been nullified by a very good person doing a very good job.

    I do think a certain amount of wastage is given more leeway during the pandemic e.g. when there are reports testing cost x, do we need to do quite so many per day, I think the public say I don't care how much it costs as long as everybody who gets a test can access one. Or that within billions of bits of PPE, there we some duff stuff, as long as there is enough of it.

    What will change though is as we emerge from the pandemic, there are going to be tough decisions and that is when there is the biggest danger for the sort of cronyism mixed with incompetence. Telling people there is no money, then been seen to spend a load with a friend for very little is when you get in real trouble.
    Yes perhaps it is mainly due to the vaccine success.
    Not just the vaccine success, but the opening of the economy, and slaying the ESL with widespread praise here and across Europe
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834
    edited April 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: No10 fears Cummings bombshell dossier #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1386060073659736064/photo/1

    Do we know when he'll be appearing before the committee(s)?
    I understand it is the 26th May
    Sounds right. Dominic Cummings' post ends:-
    I will not engage in media briefing regarding these issues but will answer questions about any of these issues to Parliament on 26 May for as long as the MPs want.
    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522

    I presume when this poll was taken the "sleaze" against Boris being raised at the time was the Dyson stuff, which I don't think it made him look bad, it made him look like he was doing everything possible to get ventilators.

    No - a large majority (70%) in the poll disapproved of Dyson seeking special treatment. I suppose you can argue that they blame Dyson rather than Johnson, but I doubt it. Only 31% say Johnson is honest - 69% either think not or simply don't know. There's also a marked difference to the honesty ratings for Starmer and Labour. But at present people reckon that the vaccination success trumps all this - if one forgets about the early chaos, which undoubtedly caused many death, a lot of people undoubtedly feel that the vaccinations have saved their lives, which is enough to forgive a lot.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,340

    Another time when gross numbers matter more than net.

    Gross 37% say there's an issue - which is basically just opposition core. Not gone beyond that.

    As for anyone else, innocent until proven guilty applies. 63% do not say there is an issue.

    37% is a lot higher than the core of the opposition. It's interesting that while Hancock also has a bad score on this question (presumably because of the stories about the PPE contracts) of 31-33, Sunak actually has net positive who think he is clean and honest 40-23. Given those differences I don't think this can just be waved away as the opposition core vote.

    Digging further into the detail, you can see that 10% of the Tory GE2019 vote rate Johnson as corrupt, which compares to 4% of those currently intending to vote Tory - so that suggests this is something that could change people's voting intention (though it might be that people who have decided not to vote Tory will be looking for reasons to confirm that view).

    Interestingly though, seats that the Tories gained in 2019 saw Johnson's best figures on this question of 35-26 in favour of honest, compared to 35-35 for Conservative holds in 2019. So perhaps the Tories are losing votes in the south?

    There are some interesting oddities in Keir Starmer's numbers on this question. Tories give him 37-16 for honest, but SNP voters think he is corrupt by 24-32.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,008
    edited April 2021

    I presume when this poll was taken the "sleaze" against Boris being raised at the time was the Dyson stuff, which I don't think it made him look bad, it made him look like he was doing everything possible to get ventilators.

    No - a large majority (70%) in the poll disapproved of Dyson seeking special treatment. I suppose you can argue that they blame Dyson rather than Johnson, but I doubt it. Only 31% say Johnson is honest - 69% either think not or simply don't know. There's also a marked difference to the honesty ratings for Starmer and Labour. But at present people reckon that the vaccination success trumps all this - if one forgets about the early chaos, which undoubtedly caused many death, a lot of people undoubtedly feel that the vaccinations have saved their lives, which is enough to forgive a lot.
    Hi Nick

    This is tonight's poll from Opinium on this subject

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1386034204446580738?s=19th

    37% think he is not compared to 19% Starmer
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited April 2021

    I presume when this poll was taken the "sleaze" against Boris being raised at the time was the Dyson stuff, which I don't think it made him look bad, it made him look like he was doing everything possible to get ventilators.

    No - a large majority (70%) in the poll disapproved of Dyson seeking special treatment. I suppose you can argue that they blame Dyson rather than Johnson, but I doubt it. Only 31% say Johnson is honest - 69% either think not or simply don't know. There's also a marked difference to the honesty ratings for Starmer and Labour. But at present people reckon that the vaccination success trumps all this - if one forgets about the early chaos, which undoubtedly caused many death, a lot of people undoubtedly feel that the vaccinations have saved their lives, which is enough to forgive a lot.
    What I said and 70% disapprove of Dyson aren't mutually incompatible. If the public where that fussed about Boris reaction, we wouldn't see the headline polling. As I said down thread, I think during the height of a pandemic there is more leeway given if the motivate for some action is seen as doing something to save the UK public. You might not like the idea of people getting special treatment or doing deals with dodgy regimes for equipment, but I think most people are grown up enough to think needs must.

    He does have a wider issue in regards to honesty and integrity, but I don't think its news to anybody. I think a bigger drag is incompetence. Blair wasn't seen as a beacon of honesty or trustworthiness after a few years, but people voted for him because he was seen as competent.

    When it comes to Boris, the phrase form is temporary, class is permanent, comes to mind. When we get back to day to day stuff, he will run into problems again.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
    Today, I am not sure the public care much about the wallpaper business, as long as it isn't the taxpayer. Everybody knows business / unions give politicians all sorts of freebies, and they aren't all doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I think the anger is much greater when it is seen we are paying for politicians to enrich themselves e.g. expenses scandal or that there was so dodgy business went on and public money resulted in nothing i.e. why I think the PPE stuff hasn't really landed massively, as again the government for the most part got lots of PPE in emergency situation, even if it appears to be friends of friends and it doesn't look good.
    But the billions wasted on track and trace didn't cut through either. I'm inclined to think the pandemic has upended normal rules. This will surely change though. Hence why I really am determined to stick to my mantra of let's see how things look in a year from now. In the meantime I'll be looking carefully at the Starmer Next PM price. If that goes north of 6 I'll be having some. Anything like 7 and I'll be gorging.
    I think track and trace did cut through to some extent, Tory lead went right down to where it was neck and neck at Christmas. There was a definitely a feeling of the Tories are spending all this money and we aren't getting anything for it, and to make it worse its mates getting hired, and now we are back in bloody lockdown.

    The Tories have pulled ahead, because of the vaccination roll out, where accusations of mates getting hired has been nullified by a very good person doing a very good job.

    I do think a certain amount of wastage is given more leeway during the pandemic e.g. when there are reports testing cost x, do we need to do quite so many per day, I think the public say I don't care how much it costs as long as everybody who gets a test can access one. Or that within billions of bits of PPE, there we some duff stuff, as long as there is enough of it.

    What will change though is as we emerge from the pandemic, there are going to be tough decisions and that is when there is the biggest danger for the sort of cronyism mixed with incompetence. Telling people there is no money, then been seen to spend a load with a friend for very little is when you get in real trouble.
    Yes perhaps it is mainly due to the vaccine success.
    Not just the vaccine success, but the opening of the economy, and slaying the ESL with widespread praise here and across Europe
    Well the opening of the economy flows from the vaccine success. And I doubt the government are getting much credit for the ESL flopping. That was people power.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,008
    edited April 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
    Today, I am not sure the public care much about the wallpaper business, as long as it isn't the taxpayer. Everybody knows business / unions give politicians all sorts of freebies, and they aren't all doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I think the anger is much greater when it is seen we are paying for politicians to enrich themselves e.g. expenses scandal or that there was so dodgy business went on and public money resulted in nothing i.e. why I think the PPE stuff hasn't really landed massively, as again the government for the most part got lots of PPE in emergency situation, even if it appears to be friends of friends and it doesn't look good.
    But the billions wasted on track and trace didn't cut through either. I'm inclined to think the pandemic has upended normal rules. This will surely change though. Hence why I really am determined to stick to my mantra of let's see how things look in a year from now. In the meantime I'll be looking carefully at the Starmer Next PM price. If that goes north of 6 I'll be having some. Anything like 7 and I'll be gorging.
    I think track and trace did cut through to some extent, Tory lead went right down to where it was neck and neck at Christmas. There was a definitely a feeling of the Tories are spending all this money and we aren't getting anything for it, and to make it worse its mates getting hired, and now we are back in bloody lockdown.

    The Tories have pulled ahead, because of the vaccination roll out, where accusations of mates getting hired has been nullified by a very good person doing a very good job.

    I do think a certain amount of wastage is given more leeway during the pandemic e.g. when there are reports testing cost x, do we need to do quite so many per day, I think the public say I don't care how much it costs as long as everybody who gets a test can access one. Or that within billions of bits of PPE, there we some duff stuff, as long as there is enough of it.

    What will change though is as we emerge from the pandemic, there are going to be tough decisions and that is when there is the biggest danger for the sort of cronyism mixed with incompetence. Telling people there is no money, then been seen to spend a load with a friend for very little is when you get in real trouble.
    Yes perhaps it is mainly due to the vaccine success.
    Not just the vaccine success, but the opening of the economy, and slaying the ESL with widespread praise here and across Europe
    Well the opening of the economy flows from the vaccine success. And I doubt the government are getting much credit for the ESL flopping. That was people power.
    Sorry that is not quite the case

    Man Utd sighted government involvement and the papers across Europe named Boris as having defeated the proposals as well as EUFA officials
  • I presume when this poll was taken the "sleaze" against Boris being raised at the time was the Dyson stuff, which I don't think it made him look bad, it made him look like he was doing everything possible to get ventilators.

    No - a large majority (70%) in the poll disapproved of Dyson seeking special treatment. I suppose you can argue that they blame Dyson rather than Johnson, but I doubt it. Only 31% say Johnson is honest - 69% either think not or simply don't know. There's also a marked difference to the honesty ratings for Starmer and Labour. But at present people reckon that the vaccination success trumps all this - if one forgets about the early chaos, which undoubtedly caused many death, a lot of people undoubtedly feel that the vaccinations have saved their lives, which is enough to forgive a lot.
    Hi Nick

    This is tonight's poll from Opinium on this subject

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1386034204446580738?s=19th

    37% think he is not compared to 19% Starmer
    Correction 16% Starmer
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    No one cares. The sun shines. The jabs work. Lockdown eases

    I’m down in Cornwall in warm breezy weather and the sense of hedonistic relief is palpable

    My own extended family had a large and illegal gathering indoors last night. We all thought ‘fuck it’ and did it. This morning we worked out 10 people got thru 20 bottles of wine. And it really wasn’t just me

    We could be looking at a genuinely roaring 20s. At least for a while....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited April 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    Claims about how Boris paid for some wallpapering to be done ?

    Tens of millions have paid cash for that sort of work.

    It makes Boris look like the bloke down the pub. Again.

    Now if he'd been involved in serious sleaze like Cameron has it might be different.
    Other way round imo. If the name of whoever paid is revealed, then the matter becomes very straightforward. It is like Cash for Questions under Major. Ostensibly trivial in itself: Princess Diana's boyfriend's dad bunged a minor backbencher to ask questions. But easy to understand. The public could follow the money. So it will be with this, whereas inside tracks for PPE suppliers, and whatever Cameron was up to are quite abstruse.
    Today, I am not sure the public care much about the wallpaper business, as long as it isn't the taxpayer. Everybody knows business / unions give politicians all sorts of freebies, and they aren't all doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I think the anger is much greater when it is seen we are paying for politicians to enrich themselves e.g. expenses scandal or that there was so dodgy business went on and public money resulted in nothing i.e. why I think the PPE stuff hasn't really landed massively, as again the government for the most part got lots of PPE in emergency situation, even if it appears to be friends of friends and it doesn't look good.
    But the billions wasted on track and trace didn't cut through either. I'm inclined to think the pandemic has upended normal rules. This will surely change though. Hence why I really am determined to stick to my mantra of let's see how things look in a year from now. In the meantime I'll be looking carefully at the Starmer Next PM price. If that goes north of 6 I'll be having some. Anything like 7 and I'll be gorging.
    I think track and trace did cut through to some extent, Tory lead went right down to where it was neck and neck at Christmas. There was a definitely a feeling of the Tories are spending all this money and we aren't getting anything for it, and to make it worse its mates getting hired, and now we are back in bloody lockdown.

    The Tories have pulled ahead, because of the vaccination roll out, where accusations of mates getting hired has been nullified by a very good person doing a very good job.

    I do think a certain amount of wastage is given more leeway during the pandemic e.g. when there are reports testing cost x, do we need to do quite so many per day, I think the public say I don't care how much it costs as long as everybody who gets a test can access one. Or that within billions of bits of PPE, there we some duff stuff, as long as there is enough of it.

    What will change though is as we emerge from the pandemic, there are going to be tough decisions and that is when there is the biggest danger for the sort of cronyism mixed with incompetence. Telling people there is no money, then been seen to spend a load with a friend for very little is when you get in real trouble.
    Yes perhaps it is mainly due to the vaccine success.
    Not just the vaccine success, but the opening of the economy, and slaying the ESL with widespread praise here and across Europe
    Well the opening of the economy flows from the vaccine success. And I doubt the government are getting much credit for the ESL flopping. That was people power.
    I saw loads of social media / football forums giving Boris some credit for coming out so quickly and so definitely against. It won't have harmed him.

    If it had gone ahead and it had come down to brass tax, well I think you need to listen to Boris actual words which said something along the lines of against going head IN THE CURRENT FORMAT.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021
    Re West Midlands

    The Tory performance is curious, isn’t it?

    A couple of factors I can think of;

    1. The greens started out a decade ago converting dont vote-green, red-green and even UKIP/BNP-green votes in the rather unloved (and unlovely) Chelmsley Wood. The greens also have absorbed some of the former Lib Dem vote in the wealthier parts of east bham. I suspect many of these local green votes went/go blue in the national elections.

    2. Andy street is, IMO a bit of a twit, but generally regarded as a good candidate, and perhaps has acted as a gateway drug for the tories.

    I think it’s the general shitness of labour, though, locally, which explains the rise in the Tory vote best.

    Perhaps there is just less of a tribal anti-Tory vote in the WM.

    Can anyone else explain the tories relative outperformance?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    No one cares. The sun shines. The jabs work. Lockdown eases

    I’m down in Cornwall in warm breezy weather and the sense of hedonistic relief is palpable

    My own extended family had a large and illegal gathering indoors last night. We all thought ‘fuck it’ and did it. This morning we worked out 10 people got thru 20 bottles of wine. And it really wasn’t just me

    We could be looking at a genuinely roaring 20s. At least for a while....

    10 people, 20 bottles, poor effort.....you lot wouldn't last an Urquhart family gathering.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    Dickheads...

    Eight officers injured as protesters bombard police with missiles and bottles after thousands of anti-vaccine passport activists march through London in 'Unite for Freedom' protest attended by TV presenter Beverly Turner and Laurence Fox

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9507223/Thousands-anti-lockdown-activists-march-central-London.html
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    I presume when this poll was taken the "sleaze" against Boris being raised at the time was the Dyson stuff, which I don't think it made him look bad, it made him look like he was doing everything possible to get ventilators.

    I get the appeal of "sleaze" as the attack word but for me it has vices of the flesh connotations. This is corruption. It's about money. So given that has too many syllables for today's politics I prefer GRIFT as the charge to bandy around. Tory grift. Johnson the grifter. This government of grift. The last one is particularly good with the double gees.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    No one cares. The sun shines. The jabs work. Lockdown eases

    I’m down in Cornwall in warm breezy weather and the sense of hedonistic relief is palpable

    My own extended family had a large and illegal gathering indoors last night. We all thought ‘fuck it’ and did it. This morning we worked out 10 people got thru 20 bottles of wine. And it really wasn’t just me

    We could be looking at a genuinely roaring 20s. At least for a while....

    10 people, 20 bottle, poor effort.....you lot wouldn't last an Urquhart family gathering.
    At least 2 are basically teetotal. I was most admiring of my elderly stepfather who did 2 bottles of red, about a pint of gin, plus Prosecco, and was still talking sense as I passed out
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    TimT said:

    I know that for politics geeks like us, the Cummings stuff is explosive. But is it for Joe Normal?

    No, or not yet. I am trying to remember the course of the Tory sleaze surrounding the Major government. My suspicion is decorating the flat might have more cut-through, if and when we ever get the details, which is probably why we will not get the details.
    Except it’s not his flat. It’s a government flat. I know that’s not a justification but it will put enough people off the scent.

    Separately why are we so cheap with government property? Spending £250k on doing up a flat is not that much for a PM.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited April 2021
    ...
This discussion has been closed.