Betting opens for the May 6th locals on the BBC’s Projected National Shares for CON and LAB – politi

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Pulpstar said:

https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1379781984604487681

The main driver of the rollout, stronger English first doses than I was expecting.

270,000. I'll take that after recent shockers. Got to get higher however

Yes, somewhat better than yesterday's utter shitshow.

But still nowhere near good enough!

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

@ all those getting very down and anxious -

Is next week not big for you?

Outdoor pubs, indoor leisure, all shops.

If you take that, plus bend a few (unpoliced) rules on meeting and mixing, are you not getting close to normality?

No.

I don't want to go to an outdoor pub. I want to visit my grandparents and they aren't healthy enough to be spending time outdoors in the cold. They've had both vaccines but it will still be illegal to visit them in their living room before 17 May. 😠

I did say "bend a few (unpoliced) rules".

Visiting others indoors isn't "bending the rules" it is "breaking the law".

If the only solution is to break the law, then the law is an ass.

You wouldn't break the speed limits to avoid being late for something important?

On my own? Yes.

With my wife and children in the car? No.

Having set off a bit late you wouldn't drive 35 in a 30 so as to drop your kids to school on time?

Utter sanctimonious bullshit.

Others might but I hardly believe a word you write about your private life. It's all transparent virtue-signalling.

Sorry, Philip, but that's my take. You carry on though. It's all part of PB's rich mosaic.

Bad example. Do you drive? I would think nothing of driving at 80-90 and higher on the motorway. I would definitely not speed in an urban area, by a school or not. There's a big difference.

It was a good example. Yours is too. 85 on a motorway. We almost all do that sometimes. We almost all do 35 in a 30 sometimes too. How do I know this? Because I do and so does everybody I know. It's how it is. Hardly anybody religiously complies with all laws all of the time, but from this it does not follow that all such laws should be scrapped. This is the point I seek to make. Have in fact now made.

Everybody you know speeds in urban environments? Is this some of that @ydoethur every teacher is planning on leaving the profession in the next two years PB hyperbole?

Aside from the fact that you must have some scintillating dinner parties to discuss speeding in built-up zones, I really don't think that too many people do speed in such places. Dual carriageways, motorways, country roads all yes. In town in 30mph zones? Nuh-huh.

it is almost impossible not to go up to 35mph on an empty Spaniard's Road, in Hampstead. Every Londoner with a car has done this

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

@ all those getting very down and anxious -

Is next week not big for you?

Outdoor pubs, indoor leisure, all shops.

If you take that, plus bend a few (unpoliced) rules on meeting and mixing, are you not getting close to normality?

No.

I don't want to go to an outdoor pub. I want to visit my grandparents and they aren't healthy enough to be spending time outdoors in the cold. They've had both vaccines but it will still be illegal to visit them in their living room before 17 May. 😠

I did say "bend a few (unpoliced) rules".

Visiting others indoors isn't "bending the rules" it is "breaking the law".

If the only solution is to break the law, then the law is an ass.

You wouldn't break the speed limits to avoid being late for something important?

On my own? Yes.

With my wife and children in the car? No.

Having set off a bit late you wouldn't drive 35 in a 30 so as to drop your kids to school on time?

Utter sanctimonious bullshit.

Others might but I hardly believe a word you write about your private life. It's all transparent virtue-signalling.

Sorry, Philip, but that's my take. You carry on though. It's all part of PB's rich mosaic.

Bad example. Do you drive? I would think nothing of driving at 80-90 and higher on the motorway. I would definitely not speed in an urban area, by a school or not. There's a big difference.

It was a good example. Yours is too. 85 on a motorway. We almost all do that sometimes. We almost all do 35 in a 30 sometimes too. How do I know this? Because I do and so does everybody I know. It's how it is. Hardly anybody religiously complies with all laws all of the time, but from this it does not follow that all such laws should be scrapped. This is the point I seek to make. Have in fact now made.

It is a terrible example. Speeding on the school run, past kids who are walking to school - do you seriously do that?

It isn't even possible to speed on the school run typically, since the roads are so congested with traffic at that time. But its bloody stupid to do so.

85 on the motorway I said I'm comfortable doing. But on residential roads with children walking, on the school run like you said? No, absolutely not.

We need a hero. We're holding out for a hero 'til the morning light.
He's gotta be sure and it's gotta be soon. And he's gotta be driving alright ... driving alright.

What are you smoking?

Not speeding on residential roads or near schools doesn't make you a hero, it makes you sane.

If you choose to speed next to a school then you're not a normal driver, you're a cunt.

eek said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Charles said:

moonshine said:

Pulpstar said:

moonshine said:

Stocky said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Since other people have been sharing what is worrying them, I hope people don't mind if I do the same.

I haven't seen my grandparents in a year and I'm absolutely terrified that I might not ever see them again. I'm lucky enough to still have all my grandparents, my wife has lost all of hers, so I know full well that old people don't live forever. They've been vaccinated but its still illegal to see them until May - there's no guarantee they'll make it until May, I don't want to say it but something could happen at any time and it scares me. I haven't seen any of them since last February and in last couple of decades since returning to live in the UK I'd never gone more than a few weeks without visitng them.

But we won't go to visit them until its legal, my wife won't let me for the same reason that she wouldn't have any drinks at all while pregnant - not expecting anything to go wrong if being sensible, but couldn't live with ourselves if something did and we'd broken the rules/guidance even if it was coincidental. But still . . . its heartbreaking to not know them and to not know if we ever will again, and to lose valuable time of my kids getting to know their great grandparents while they're still with us.

Banning families by law from meeting up indoors while there's no excess deaths is absolutely inhumane and its making me quite emotional sorry. I can't support this, its wrong, wrong, wrong.

But I don't know what to do, this is never something we should have ever had to face.

Necessary visits to people in need has always been allowed AFAIK. And who cares if it isn't. I'd go and I think your wife is wrong.

Philip, the whole bloody country was breaking the law this weekend, me included. No need to be a martyr.

Not up to him, if his wife isn't comfortable breaking the rules.

It’s a sign of how warped our society has become in just one year that you can say this.

The decision rests with Philip and his grandparents, no one else.

It’s a rare man who will ignore his wife’s heartfelt objections!

@ Philip_Thompson, can you not arrange to procure a couple of testing kits? Use one on yourself before going (and go straight there without even a stop for petrol etc.) and use one after leaving before seeing your wife again. You haven't entirely eliminated the risk, but if you and your grandparents (and hopefully your other half) all think you've minimised it to a very small degree, a degree whereby taking in their post or their shopping presents a much greater risk to them than taking in you, then go for it.

It's takes days for your symptons to appear which is why schools are testing twice weekly...

Dura_Ace said:

TOPPING said:

Dura_Ace said:

TOPPING said:

Stocky said:

Dura_Ace said:

Malmesbury said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

Stocky said:

noneoftheabove said:

Stocky said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

@ all those getting very down and anxious -

Is next week not big for you?

Outdoor pubs, indoor leisure, all shops.

If you take that, plus bend a few (unpoliced) rules on meeting and mixing, are you not getting close to normality?

No.

I don't want to go to an outdoor pub. I want to visit my grandparents and they aren't healthy enough to be spending time outdoors in the cold. They've had both vaccines but it will still be illegal to visit them in their living room before 17 May. 😠

I did say "bend a few (unpoliced) rules".

Visiting others indoors isn't "bending the rules" it is "breaking the law".

If the only solution is to break the law, then the law is an ass.

You wouldn't break the speed limits to avoid being late for something important?

On my own? Yes.

With my wife and children in the car? No.

In which case you believe it ok to risk other peoples' children then.

We all make our own decisions.

I wouldn't speed by a school, and I don't speed if its raining, but if I deem conditions are right I could do 80 to 90 on the motorway.

Everyone in the third lane does over 80 on a motorway. It's the ambient speed - custom and practice. Same goes with visiting grandparents as far as I'm concerned!

For those cars whose speedo in the third lane reads 80, they are probably doing about 72.

I go by the sat nav. In both my cars going along at 82/83 means 80 assuming sat nav is more correct than the speedo.

Yes, I found the same in both my previous Golf and current Corolla. At 80 I find that Google Maps says 75. Clearly there is a good margin for error in calibrating the speedo!

It’s illegal (MoT failure) for the speedo to read under the true speed, so the manufacturers allow a fair bit of margin of error. Modern digital displays are considerably more accurate than old analogue devices, as are GPS devices on phones - given a straight road and good signal. Police cars have calibrated speedos, that have to be tested periodically.

You may remember the Evul Lawyer who specialised in getting people off for speeding offences?

He was so disruptive that the police tried investigating *him*

His Evul Trick was to ask in court - "According to the manufacturer, your speed measuring device needs calibrating every x months. When was it last calibrated?"

The police hadn't bothered, for the most part, to re-calibrate since purchase....

My solicitor has got me off 3 out 6 speeding offences since we moved to the UK in 2016 including one that looked like certain jail. She has challenged calibration, training, record keeping, adherence to process, the medical fitness of the cops involved, the weather, etc.

I need to fess up.

I collected a brand new car on 1 March this year in Leicester. A few days later I had a speeding notification in the post - 36 in a 30. Bloody lockdown - nothing on the roads. I didn't see a speed camera.

Anyway, the camera that nicked me is on the very road that the garage is on. I reckon I did less than half a mile in my new car before getting done for speeding.

Is this a record?

Very sadly many years ago a friend of a friend went to buy a Cerbera and crashed it into a tree killing himself on the way back from the dealers.

At least he never got to see it rust.

I had a Chimaera. Actually not as unreliable as people said. I flogged it well before any problems manifested.

Edit: and weren't they all fibreglass or do other bits rust?

The chassis is badly powdercoated steel which you can watch rust in real time. Is the Chimaera the one where you have to take a front wheel off to get at the battery?

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

@ all those getting very down and anxious -

Is next week not big for you?

Outdoor pubs, indoor leisure, all shops.

If you take that, plus bend a few (unpoliced) rules on meeting and mixing, are you not getting close to normality?

No.

I don't want to go to an outdoor pub. I want to visit my grandparents and they aren't healthy enough to be spending time outdoors in the cold. They've had both vaccines but it will still be illegal to visit them in their living room before 17 May. 😠

I did say "bend a few (unpoliced) rules".

Visiting others indoors isn't "bending the rules" it is "breaking the law".

If the only solution is to break the law, then the law is an ass.

You wouldn't break the speed limits to avoid being late for something important?

On my own? Yes.

With my wife and children in the car? No.

Having set off a bit late you wouldn't drive 35 in a 30 so as to drop your kids to school on time?

Utter sanctimonious bullshit.

Others might but I hardly believe a word you write about your private life. It's all transparent virtue-signalling.

Sorry, Philip, but that's my take. You carry on though. It's all part of PB's rich mosaic.

Bad example. Do you drive? I would think nothing of driving at 80-90 and higher on the motorway. I would definitely not speed in an urban area, by a school or not. There's a big difference.

It was a good example. Yours is too. 85 on a motorway. We almost all do that sometimes. We almost all do 35 in a 30 sometimes too. How do I know this? Because I do and so does everybody I know. It's how it is. Hardly anybody religiously complies with all laws all of the time, but from this it does not follow that all such laws should be scrapped. This is the point I seek to make. Have in fact now made.

It is a terrible example. Speeding on the school run, past kids who are walking to school - do you seriously do that?

It isn't even possible to speed on the school run typically, since the roads are so congested with traffic at that time. But its bloody stupid to do so.

85 on the motorway I said I'm comfortable doing. But on residential roads with children walking, on the school run like you said? No, absolutely not.

We need a hero. We're holding out for a hero 'til the morning light.
He's gotta be sure and it's gotta be soon. And he's gotta be driving alright ... driving alright.

What are you smoking?

Not speeding on residential roads or near schools doesn't make you a hero, it makes you sane.

If you choose to speed next to a school then you're not a normal driver, you're a cunt.

You sound upset, Philip. Don't let kinabalu get to you. He's not worth it.

Luckyguy1983 said:

Charles said:

moonshine said:

Pulpstar said:

moonshine said:

Stocky said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Since other people have been sharing what is worrying them, I hope people don't mind if I do the same.

I haven't seen my grandparents in a year and I'm absolutely terrified that I might not ever see them again. I'm lucky enough to still have all my grandparents, my wife has lost all of hers, so I know full well that old people don't live forever. They've been vaccinated but its still illegal to see them until May - there's no guarantee they'll make it until May, I don't want to say it but something could happen at any time and it scares me. I haven't seen any of them since last February and in last couple of decades since returning to live in the UK I'd never gone more than a few weeks without visitng them.

But we won't go to visit them until its legal, my wife won't let me for the same reason that she wouldn't have any drinks at all while pregnant - not expecting anything to go wrong if being sensible, but couldn't live with ourselves if something did and we'd broken the rules/guidance even if it was coincidental. But still . . . its heartbreaking to not know them and to not know if we ever will again, and to lose valuable time of my kids getting to know their great grandparents while they're still with us.

Banning families by law from meeting up indoors while there's no excess deaths is absolutely inhumane and its making me quite emotional sorry. I can't support this, its wrong, wrong, wrong.

But I don't know what to do, this is never something we should have ever had to face.

Necessary visits to people in need has always been allowed AFAIK. And who cares if it isn't. I'd go and I think your wife is wrong.

Philip, the whole bloody country was breaking the law this weekend, me included. No need to be a martyr.

Not up to him, if his wife isn't comfortable breaking the rules.

It’s a sign of how warped our society has become in just one year that you can say this.

The decision rests with Philip and his grandparents, no one else.

It’s a rare man who will ignore his wife’s heartfelt objections!

@Philip_Thompson, can you not arrange to procure a couple of testing kits? Use one on yourself before going (and go straight there without even a stop for petrol etc.) and use one after leaving before seeing your wife again. You haven't entirely eliminated the risk, but if you and your grandparents (and hopefully your other half) all think you've minimised it to a very small degree, a degree whereby taking in their post or their shopping presents a much greater risk to them than taking in you, then go for it.

Philip_Thompson said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Charles said:

moonshine said:

Pulpstar said:

moonshine said:

Stocky said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Since other people have been sharing what is worrying them, I hope people don't mind if I do the same.

I haven't seen my grandparents in a year and I'm absolutely terrified that I might not ever see them again. I'm lucky enough to still have all my grandparents, my wife has lost all of hers, so I know full well that old people don't live forever. They've been vaccinated but its still illegal to see them until May - there's no guarantee they'll make it until May, I don't want to say it but something could happen at any time and it scares me. I haven't seen any of them since last February and in last couple of decades since returning to live in the UK I'd never gone more than a few weeks without visitng them.

But we won't go to visit them until its legal, my wife won't let me for the same reason that she wouldn't have any drinks at all while pregnant - not expecting anything to go wrong if being sensible, but couldn't live with ourselves if something did and we'd broken the rules/guidance even if it was coincidental. But still . . . its heartbreaking to not know them and to not know if we ever will again, and to lose valuable time of my kids getting to know their great grandparents while they're still with us.

Banning families by law from meeting up indoors while there's no excess deaths is absolutely inhumane and its making me quite emotional sorry. I can't support this, its wrong, wrong, wrong.

But I don't know what to do, this is never something we should have ever had to face.

Necessary visits to people in need has always been allowed AFAIK. And who cares if it isn't. I'd go and I think your wife is wrong.

Philip, the whole bloody country was breaking the law this weekend, me included. No need to be a martyr.

Not up to him, if his wife isn't comfortable breaking the rules.

It’s a sign of how warped our society has become in just one year that you can say this.

The decision rests with Philip and his grandparents, no one else.

It’s a rare man who will ignore his wife’s heartfelt objections!

@Philip_Thompson, can you not arrange to procure a couple of testing kits? Use one on yourself before going (and go straight there without even a stop for petrol etc.) and use one after leaving before seeing your wife again. You haven't entirely eliminated the risk, but if you and your grandparents (and hopefully your other half) all think you've minimised it to a very small degree, a degree whereby taking in their post or their shopping presents a much greater risk to them than taking in you, then go for it.

That's good advice thank you.

Anabobazina said:

kinabalu said:

Anabobazina said:

SandyRentool said:

Anabobazina said:

Stocky said:

Northern_Al said:

I'm no fan of this government (a gross understatement), but I don't share the doom and gloom of so many on here.

The government set out a roadmap with which most broadly agreed, in the context of a horrendous death and illness toll in January/February. It's now April. Yes, it was a cautious roadmap - understandable given the history of the virus and some uncertainty about the efficacy of vaccines. That uncertainty has diminished massively, but not completely. As far as I can tell, the government is sticking to the roadmap and restrictions will be eased next week, and more significantly on May 17th and then in June. If the government backtracks on the roadmap without good reason I'll join the complainants, but there's no sign of that yet.

Meanwhile, while the restrictions are a complete pain, they are increasingly less arduous, especially as people interpret them more sensibly. We've started having visitors to the house, because we know infections locally are now very low. The police have not knocked on our door, nor will they. I leave the house several times a day. Next Monday, my daughter has booked a table at a beachfront bar from 2pm - 8pm; we shall visit in shifts of six.

I just wonder if a bit of patience would be wise. We should man the barricades if/when it is clear that conspiracies about extending lockdown and enforcing ID cards are imminent, but not while they are still theoretical risks that I don't actually think will happen.

Yes, I'm broadly with you. I think the problem for me is that I don't trust the government, particularly given its predilection for following lumpen opinion over science and principle. Johnson want to be liked, and I don't think that's doing us any favours. If the road map is adhered to (inc international travel 17 May (in conjunction with traffic light system) ) then I'll heave a huge sigh of relief.

My view is almost the same but slightly nuanced re: Boris. I think Boris is a metro liberal at heart and his instincts are towards liberty. The same cannot be said, sadly, for many others in his party –the Patels and the rump Red Wallers, who love a bit of authoritarian lock'em and flog'em. The Tory version of the Sandy Rentool Tendency if you will.

I reflect northern working class opinion.

North London handwringers should take note.

By North London hand wringers, presumably you mean "people who live in north London (like Anabobazina) who have a different worldview to me?"

He does. And it includes me too. In spades it does. But Sandy is a Red Wall voice and we don't have that many.

Sure, I'm not calling for him to leave! I just find his lock'em and flog'em mentality abhorrent. It's not that rare: authoritarianism of one shade or another is the dominant credo on PB.

Leon said:

On the subject of libertarianism, this is Superb


https://twitter.com/GarySanchezRBW/status/1379141881876123651?s=20

RobD said:

Leon said:

On the subject of libertarianism, this is Superb


https://twitter.com/GarySanchezRBW/status/1379141881876123651?s=20

Should someone have to have a medical license before performing brain surgery?

MattW said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

@ all those getting very down and anxious -

Is next week not big for you?

Outdoor pubs, indoor leisure, all shops.

If you take that, plus bend a few (unpoliced) rules on meeting and mixing, are you not getting close to normality?

No.

I don't want to go to an outdoor pub. I want to visit my grandparents and they aren't healthy enough to be spending time outdoors in the cold. They've had both vaccines but it will still be illegal to visit them in their living room before 17 May. 😠

I did say "bend a few (unpoliced) rules".

Visiting others indoors isn't "bending the rules" it is "breaking the law".

If the only solution is to break the law, then the law is an ass.

You wouldn't break the speed limits to avoid being late for something important?

On my own? Yes.

With my wife and children in the car? No.

Having set off a bit late you wouldn't drive 35 in a 30 so as to drop your kids to school on time?

Utter sanctimonious bullshit.

Others might but I hardly believe a word you write about your private life. It's all transparent virtue-signalling.

Sorry, Philip, but that's my take. You carry on though. It's all part of PB's rich mosaic.

Bad example. Do you drive? I would think nothing of driving at 80-90 and higher on the motorway. I would definitely not speed in an urban area, by a school or not. There's a big difference.

It was a good example. Yours is too. 85 on a motorway. We almost all do that sometimes. We almost all do 35 in a 30 sometimes too. How do I know this? Because I do and so does everybody I know. It's how it is. Hardly anybody religiously complies with all laws all of the time, but from this it does not follow that all such laws should be scrapped. This is the point I seek to make. Have in fact now made.

Everybody you know speeds in urban environments? Is this some of that @ydoethur every teacher is planning on leaving the profession in the next two years PB hyperbole?

Aside from the fact that you must have some scintillating dinner parties to discuss speeding in built-up zones, I really don't think that too many people do speed in such places. Dual carriageways, motorways, country roads all yes. In town in 30mph zones? Nuh-huh.

it is almost impossible not to go up to 35mph on an empty Spaniard's Road, in Hampstead. Every Londoner with a car has done this

Irrelevant Trivia of the Day.

The Navy of Spain is still called the Spanish Armada.

Stocky said:

What is it about PB.com that makes the hours unproductively slip by? It's like fishing.

Leon said:

https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1379793646652887047?s=20

If the EMA aren't banning it, then surely the UK won't

Gallowgate said:

SandyRentool said:

Anabobazina said:

kinabalu said:

Anabobazina said:

SandyRentool said:

Anabobazina said:

Stocky said:

Northern_Al said:

I'm no fan of this government (a gross understatement), but I don't share the doom and gloom of so many on here.

The government set out a roadmap with which most broadly agreed, in the context of a horrendous death and illness toll in January/February. It's now April. Yes, it was a cautious roadmap - understandable given the history of the virus and some uncertainty about the efficacy of vaccines. That uncertainty has diminished massively, but not completely. As far as I can tell, the government is sticking to the roadmap and restrictions will be eased next week, and more significantly on May 17th and then in June. If the government backtracks on the roadmap without good reason I'll join the complainants, but there's no sign of that yet.

Meanwhile, while the restrictions are a complete pain, they are increasingly less arduous, especially as people interpret them more sensibly. We've started having visitors to the house, because we know infections locally are now very low. The police have not knocked on our door, nor will they. I leave the house several times a day. Next Monday, my daughter has booked a table at a beachfront bar from 2pm - 8pm; we shall visit in shifts of six.

I just wonder if a bit of patience would be wise. We should man the barricades if/when it is clear that conspiracies about extending lockdown and enforcing ID cards are imminent, but not while they are still theoretical risks that I don't actually think will happen.

Yes, I'm broadly with you. I think the problem for me is that I don't trust the government, particularly given its predilection for following lumpen opinion over science and principle. Johnson want to be liked, and I don't think that's doing us any favours. If the road map is adhered to (inc international travel 17 May (in conjunction with traffic light system) ) then I'll heave a huge sigh of relief.

My view is almost the same but slightly nuanced re: Boris. I think Boris is a metro liberal at heart and his instincts are towards liberty. The same cannot be said, sadly, for many others in his party –the Patels and the rump Red Wallers, who love a bit of authoritarian lock'em and flog'em. The Tory version of the Sandy Rentool Tendency if you will.

I reflect northern working class opinion.

North London handwringers should take note.

By North London hand wringers, presumably you mean "people who live in north London (like Anabobazina) who have a different worldview to me?"

He does. And it includes me too. In spades it does. But Sandy is a Red Wall voice and we don't have that many.

Sure, I'm not calling for him to leave! I just find his lock'em and flog'em mentality abhorrent. It's not that rare: authoritarianism of one shade or another is the dominant credo on PB.

I'm pleased you don't want me to leave. And I wasn't intending to be personal with my reference to N. London handwringers. It was aimed more at those in the Labour Party who don't seem to have any idea what is important to voters up here - which I find frustrating.

Of course you don't speak for everyone "up here".

Leon said:

https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1379793646652887047?s=20

If the EMA aren't banning it, then surely the UK won't

MaxPB said:

I don't understand how that scumbag only got 30 months in jail for killing that girl while speeding. He'll be out in a year. Don't think that sentence properly reflects the seriousness of the crime or that someone was killed. Should have got 10 years minimum no parole.

Cookie said:

Malmesbury said:

Cookie said:

NHS England recording 42 deaths today. Which is up on last Wednesday's 31, but given that we've just caught up on a four day weekend, not up as much as I thought.
We were talking, this time last week, about today being the last day of three-figure deaths. From this start I don't think it'll get near that.

It will be interesting to see how this fills in....

NHS England gives us the following:

29/3 32
30/3 29
31/3 36
1/4 22
2/4 17
3/4 16
4/4 13
5/4 7
6/4 5

Obviously the later the date the more incomplete the data. My rule of thumb is day 5 (4th April in this case) has 90% of total data; day 2 around 50%.
So the trend is still determinedly downwards.

MaxPB said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1379793646652887047?s=20

If the EMA aren't banning it, then surely the UK won't

I honestly remember reading the same 'news' a week, or a fortnight ago, or possibly both a week ago and a fortnight ago. Are we actually in a Groundhog Day loop, rather than simply feeling as if we are?

I'm honestly not sure. I just keep counting down the days until I can get a haircut.

Malmesbury said:

MaxPB said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1379793646652887047?s=20

If the EMA aren't banning it, then surely the UK won't

I honestly remember reading the same 'news' a week, or a fortnight ago, or possibly both a week ago and a fortnight ago. Are we actually in a Groundhog Day loop, rather than simply feeling as if we are?

I'm honestly not sure. I just keep counting down the days until I can get a haircut.

In the original script for Groundhog Day, he was supposed to be stuck in there for 10,000 years.....

kinabalu said:

Northern_Al said:

kinabalu said:

Anabobazina said:

SandyRentool said:

Anabobazina said:

Stocky said:

Northern_Al said:

I'm no fan of this government (a gross understatement), but I don't share the doom and gloom of so many on here.

The government set out a roadmap with which most broadly agreed, in the context of a horrendous death and illness toll in January/February. It's now April. Yes, it was a cautious roadmap - understandable given the history of the virus and some uncertainty about the efficacy of vaccines. That uncertainty has diminished massively, but not completely. As far as I can tell, the government is sticking to the roadmap and restrictions will be eased next week, and more significantly on May 17th and then in June. If the government backtracks on the roadmap without good reason I'll join the complainants, but there's no sign of that yet.

Meanwhile, while the restrictions are a complete pain, they are increasingly less arduous, especially as people interpret them more sensibly. We've started having visitors to the house, because we know infections locally are now very low. The police have not knocked on our door, nor will they. I leave the house several times a day. Next Monday, my daughter has booked a table at a beachfront bar from 2pm - 8pm; we shall visit in shifts of six.

I just wonder if a bit of patience would be wise. We should man the barricades if/when it is clear that conspiracies about extending lockdown and enforcing ID cards are imminent, but not while they are still theoretical risks that I don't actually think will happen.

Yes, I'm broadly with you. I think the problem for me is that I don't trust the government, particularly given its predilection for following lumpen opinion over science and principle. Johnson want to be liked, and I don't think that's doing us any favours. If the road map is adhered to (inc international travel 17 May (in conjunction with traffic light system) ) then I'll heave a huge sigh of relief.

My view is almost the same but slightly nuanced re: Boris. I think Boris is a metro liberal at heart and his instincts are towards liberty. The same cannot be said, sadly, for many others in his party –the Patels and the rump Red Wallers, who love a bit of authoritarian lock'em and flog'em. The Tory version of the Sandy Rentool Tendency if you will.

I reflect northern working class opinion.

North London handwringers should take note.

By North London hand wringers, presumably you mean "people who live in north London (like Anabobazina) who have a different worldview to me?"

He does. And it includes me too. In spades it does. But Sandy is a Red Wall voice and we don't have that many.

I'm a Red Wall voice by birth and upbringing, but for the last 20 years have lived in the Epicentre of Right-On Wokeness.

As a result, I have several identity crises.

Exact same. I live in Hampstead now but I'm from the coalfields of South Yorkshire and both my g'dads were miners. 1st to go to uni. Etc etc. Somewhere on this journey I have lost my identity. Except not really, cos I'm not sure I had one.

Cookie said:

Cookie said:

Malmesbury said:

Cookie said:

NHS England recording 42 deaths today. Which is up on last Wednesday's 31, but given that we've just caught up on a four day weekend, not up as much as I thought.
We were talking, this time last week, about today being the last day of three-figure deaths. From this start I don't think it'll get near that.

It will be interesting to see how this fills in....

NHS England gives us the following:

29/3 32
30/3 29
31/3 36
1/4 22
2/4 17
3/4 16
4/4 13
5/4 7
6/4 5

Obviously the later the date the more incomplete the data. My rule of thumb is day 5 (4th April in this case) has 90% of total data; day 2 around 50%.
So the trend is still determinedly downwards.

edit - got the date wrong. Now corrected.

Leon said:

This is going to destroy vaccine acceptance in the EU, and maybe harm it badly in the UK

What if they find the same in Pfizer, J&J, Novavax? Very rare side effects? Do we stop all vaccines, because 1 in 600,000 keel over?

Leon said:

Pulpstar said:

Leon said:

EMA saying doctors should warn of "very rare side effects" of AZ, no talk of a ban yet

However UK likely to restrict it for under 30s - Sky

This is ridiculous; the risks are tiny

Where would that leave under 30s who have had a first dose of it ?

Saying they should still have it

I give up. The UK is now going further than the EMA. Why?

eek said:

Leon said:

This is going to destroy vaccine acceptance in the EU, and maybe harm it badly in the UK

What if they find the same in Pfizer, J&J, Novavax? Very rare side effects? Do we stop all vaccines, because 1 in 600,000 keel over?

Nope because the risk is lower than the risk of covid.

Leon said:

Pulpstar said:

Leon said:

EMA saying doctors should warn of "very rare side effects" of AZ, no talk of a ban yet

However UK likely to restrict it for under 30s - Sky

This is ridiculous; the risks are tiny

Where would that leave under 30s who have had a first dose of it ?

Saying they should still have it

I give up. The UK is now going further than the EMA. Why?

MaxPB said:

I don't understand how that scumbag only got 30 months in jail for killing that girl while speeding. He'll be out in a year. Don't think that sentence properly reflects the seriousness of the crime or that someone was killed. Should have got 10 years minimum no parole.

Leon said:

This is going to destroy vaccine acceptance in the EU, and maybe harm it badly in the UK

What if they find the same in Pfizer, J&J, Novavax? Very rare side effects? Do we stop all vaccines, because 1 in 600,000 keel over?

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

I don't understand how that scumbag only got 30 months in jail for killing that girl while speeding. He'll be out in a year. Don't think that sentence properly reflects the seriousness of the crime or that someone was killed. Should have got 10 years minimum no parole.

What should be the penalty for speeding at 10mph above the limit? That's the problem.

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

Pulpstar said:

Leon said:

EMA saying doctors should warn of "very rare side effects" of AZ, no talk of a ban yet

However UK likely to restrict it for under 30s - Sky

This is ridiculous; the risks are tiny

Where would that leave under 30s who have had a first dose of it ?

Saying they should still have it

I give up. The UK is now going further than the EMA. Why?

If the report is true, its worth recalling that deaths in the UK have been reduced to virtually zero now. Not the case in Europe.

What are the odds of an under-30 in the UK from getting sick and dying of Covid right now?

Leon said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Leon said:

Pulpstar said:

Leon said:

EMA saying doctors should warn of "very rare side effects" of AZ, no talk of a ban yet

However UK likely to restrict it for under 30s - Sky

This is ridiculous; the risks are tiny

Where would that leave under 30s who have had a first dose of it ?

Saying they should still have it

I give up. The UK is now going further than the EMA. Why?

Listening to the EMA live press conference

Has the UK announced their decision as it is not reported by Sky yet

Confirmed by Sky

Malmesbury said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

Pulpstar said:

Leon said:

EMA saying doctors should warn of "very rare side effects" of AZ, no talk of a ban yet

However UK likely to restrict it for under 30s - Sky

This is ridiculous; the risks are tiny

Where would that leave under 30s who have had a first dose of it ?

Saying they should still have it

I give up. The UK is now going further than the EMA. Why?

If the report is true, its worth recalling that deaths in the UK have been reduced to virtually zero now. Not the case in Europe.

What are the odds of an under-30 in the UK from getting sick and dying of Covid right now?

Well, CFR for 0-44 is something 0.04% at the moment.

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

eek said:

Leon said:

This is going to destroy vaccine acceptance in the EU, and maybe harm it badly in the UK

What if they find the same in Pfizer, J&J, Novavax? Very rare side effects? Do we stop all vaccines, because 1 in 600,000 keel over?

Nope because the risk is lower than the risk of covid.

Of course it is, so why the UK move (if true)?

A very rare side effect is no reason to cease delivering an excellent vaccine DURING A TERRIBLE PLAGUE

The risks of Covid in the UK are a lot, lot lower than the risk of Covid in Europe. I trust the MHRA, if they've made a decision they'll have done so for the right reasons, if they haven't fair enough too.

The odds of a healthy under-30 catching Covid and dying from it now in the UK must be very, very low.

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

EMA saying doctors should warn of "very rare side effects" of AZ, no talk of a ban yet

However UK likely to restrict it for under 30s - Sky

This is ridiculous; the risks are tiny

I'm not sure it makes a difference though, the under 30s (more likely under 40s) are all going to get the new vaccines anyway. There really won't be much of a change.

What it does mean is that the jab and go vaccine (J&J) might have the same issues as have already been noted in the US. I think the government was planning to have a vaccine drive using the J&J one for young people and using it as a gateway to be able to travel internationally in a "get jabbed, three weeks later you can fly" sort of way but with Moderna, Pfizer and Novavax there is a 5-6 week minimum time before full immunity is reached.

Pulpstar said:

Leon said:

Sky now saying the roadmap is pushed back. Fantastic

?! Noone ex G6 under 30 was likely to have the vaccine before 20th June anyway lol

kinabalu said:

Northern_Al said:

kinabalu said:

Anabobazina said:

SandyRentool said:

Anabobazina said:

Stocky said:

Northern_Al said:

I'm no fan of this government (a gross understatement), but I don't share the doom and gloom of so many on here.

The government set out a roadmap with which most broadly agreed, in the context of a horrendous death and illness toll in January/February. It's now April. Yes, it was a cautious roadmap - understandable given the history of the virus and some uncertainty about the efficacy of vaccines. That uncertainty has diminished massively, but not completely. As far as I can tell, the government is sticking to the roadmap and restrictions will be eased next week, and more significantly on May 17th and then in June. If the government backtracks on the roadmap without good reason I'll join the complainants, but there's no sign of that yet.

Meanwhile, while the restrictions are a complete pain, they are increasingly less arduous, especially as people interpret them more sensibly. We've started having visitors to the house, because we know infections locally are now very low. The police have not knocked on our door, nor will they. I leave the house several times a day. Next Monday, my daughter has booked a table at a beachfront bar from 2pm - 8pm; we shall visit in shifts of six.

I just wonder if a bit of patience would be wise. We should man the barricades if/when it is clear that conspiracies about extending lockdown and enforcing ID cards are imminent, but not while they are still theoretical risks that I don't actually think will happen.

Yes, I'm broadly with you. I think the problem for me is that I don't trust the government, particularly given its predilection for following lumpen opinion over science and principle. Johnson want to be liked, and I don't think that's doing us any favours. If the road map is adhered to (inc international travel 17 May (in conjunction with traffic light system) ) then I'll heave a huge sigh of relief.

My view is almost the same but slightly nuanced re: Boris. I think Boris is a metro liberal at heart and his instincts are towards liberty. The same cannot be said, sadly, for many others in his party –the Patels and the rump Red Wallers, who love a bit of authoritarian lock'em and flog'em. The Tory version of the Sandy Rentool Tendency if you will.

I reflect northern working class opinion.

North London handwringers should take note.

By North London hand wringers, presumably you mean "people who live in north London (like Anabobazina) who have a different worldview to me?"

He does. And it includes me too. In spades it does. But Sandy is a Red Wall voice and we don't have that many.

I'm a Red Wall voice by birth and upbringing, but for the last 20 years have lived in the Epicentre of Right-On Wokeness.

As a result, I have several identity crises.

Exact same. I live in Hampstead now but I'm from the coalfields of South Yorkshire and both my g'dads were miners. 1st to go to uni. Etc etc. Somewhere on this journey I have lost my identity. Except not really, cos I'm not sure I had one.

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

EMA saying doctors should warn of "very rare side effects" of AZ, no talk of a ban yet

However UK likely to restrict it for under 30s - Sky

This is ridiculous; the risks are tiny

I'm not sure it makes a difference though, the under 30s (more likely under 40s) are all going to get the new vaccines anyway. There really won't be much of a change.

What it does mean is that the jab and go vaccine (J&J) might have the same issues as have already been noted in the US. I think the government was planning to have a vaccine drive using the J&J one for young people and using it as a gateway to be able to travel internationally in a "get jabbed, three weeks later you can fly" sort of way but with Moderna, Pfizer and Novavax there is a 5-6 week minimum time before full immunity is reached.

Roadmap extended. Sky says. They are now expecting a lot of young people already jabbed to refuse a second jab, so they will have to start again

I do not understand. Either the side effects are much more troubling than they admit, or they have all gone insane

bigjohnowls said:

AZ fans please explain

Under 30s in England will be offered an alternative to Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine

Leon said:

Pulpstar said:

Leon said:

EMA saying doctors should warn of "very rare side effects" of AZ, no talk of a ban yet

However UK likely to restrict it for under 30s - Sky

This is ridiculous; the risks are tiny

Where would that leave under 30s who have had a first dose of it ?

Saying they should still have it

I give up. The UK is now going further than the EMA. Why?

SandyRentool said:

My 29 year old colleague had AZ. And survived.

She has discovered a good way to avoid the blood clot risk from the birth control pill. Lesbianism.

Philip_Thompson said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

MaxPB said:

I don't understand how that scumbag only got 30 months in jail for killing that girl while speeding. He'll be out in a year. Don't think that sentence properly reflects the seriousness of the crime or that someone was killed. Should have got 10 years minimum no parole.

What should be the penalty for speeding at 10mph above the limit? That's the problem.

The penalty for killing someone should be very high.

Plus he drove off from the scene and didn't call 999. Had he stopped at the scene, called 999 and attempted to give CPR then that should be mitigation - but for killing someone and driving off the penalty should be massive.