A year on for Starmer and he has yet been able to shake the hands of a single voter – politicalbetti
Options
Comments
-
At some as yet to be determined point in the future, but most of us won't be getting that one.Andy_JS said:
Aren't we supposed to be using a single dose vaccine pretty soon? Maybe young people could be jabbed with it.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
That's a fair point. I guess it just sounds plausible because we know from past experience how slow they were to do anything about border measures before, how obsessed they appear to be with sunshine holidays and how much of the electorate would like to be free to go on them.Malmesbury said:
How much of the this is actual fact as opposed to newspaper reports?rottenborough said:
It's just nuts. They are all over the place. Earlier we were told by Johnson that vaccinated people could not meet indoors as vaccines are "not 100% efficient". Which begs the question as to when we will ever be allowed to meet indoors and also why they are bothering with a vaccine passport for meeting people indoors at pubs and theatres?glw said:
We seem to have made a mess of travel restrictions at each stage up to now, so I expect we will keep doing so.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
Now we are told that vaccinated people can go abroad. And come back.
And does anyone remember "data not dates" as the we look at the plummeting case numbers?
I recall that we were told by "people in the know" that Rishi was going to do nothing for business or the employed, a few hours before he announced the furlough scheme...
It also implies extra privileges for old people which is very Tory.0 -
‘Kew Gardens has recently published a 10-year plan, which places a need to decolonise its collections'Foxy said:
Mostly it was a placque by the sugar cane, pointing out its place in the eighteenth century slave economy. A not unreasonable bit of background.Leon said:
Not a spoof. It is incredible. They are self-immolatingAndy_JS said:
The botanical gardens one must be a spoof. It can't be genuine.Leon said:Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite.Leon said:
The school - Pimlico? - that has caved to its kids burning the Union flag, is a disgraceLuckyguy1983 said:
Whether or not anything is 'wrong' with it, it is our national flag, and I'm surprised that teachers who are paid by our state have so much to say about flying the flag of that state on their place of work. I don't really think I want kids to be taught by people who hate their own country.Sunil_Prasannan said:
What's wrong with the Union Jack?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1378055338587529219
Bet we hear crickets from the usual suspects
My taxes pay for that school, those kids, their teachers. It is not a private enterprise.
Fly the damn flag, sack any teacher that objects, and expel any kids that, after a warning, still try to burn the flag. End of.
Tbf the Tories are doing a genius job of making Labour fall the wrong side of all these inflammatory culture war debates.
The "traveller incursions" thing. Jeez
Cf this Marina Hyde article in the Guardian. Perhaps the worst she has ever written, in terms of dull, witless misunderstanding (and she can be a genius writer). They don't know what to do or how to react
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/culture-war-government-race-report
See the Guardian's hysterical over-reaction to the Sewell Report:
"The Sewell report on racial disparity is an attempt to erase progress and sow division"
"Despite the Sewell report, No 10 can no longer remain in denial about racism"
"The poisonously patronising Sewell report is historically illiterate"
"The Guardian view on botanical gardens: inextricably linked to empire"
They are lemmings, rushing to the cliff of electoral oblivion, and someone quite clever in the Tories is deftly encouraging them
"Kew Gardens is right to confront its role in the history of British colonialism and racism"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/the-guardian-view-on-botanical-gardens-inextricably-linked-to-empire
God damn those RACIST FLOWERS. And those Nazi TREES. And shrubs! Always knew those evil SHRUBS were BIGOTS: like all white people.
Ideally, we should concrete over Kew Gardens and build a seventeen million metre high memorial to Winnie Mandela
You are rather over egging it.0 -
Does everything in life have to be political?Foxy said:
Mostly it was a placque by the sugar cane, pointing out its place in the eighteenth century slave economy. A not unreasonable bit of background.Leon said:
Not a spoof. It is incredible. They are self-immolatingAndy_JS said:
The botanical gardens one must be a spoof. It can't be genuine.Leon said:Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite.Leon said:
The school - Pimlico? - that has caved to its kids burning the Union flag, is a disgraceLuckyguy1983 said:
Whether or not anything is 'wrong' with it, it is our national flag, and I'm surprised that teachers who are paid by our state have so much to say about flying the flag of that state on their place of work. I don't really think I want kids to be taught by people who hate their own country.Sunil_Prasannan said:
What's wrong with the Union Jack?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1378055338587529219
Bet we hear crickets from the usual suspects
My taxes pay for that school, those kids, their teachers. It is not a private enterprise.
Fly the damn flag, sack any teacher that objects, and expel any kids that, after a warning, still try to burn the flag. End of.
Tbf the Tories are doing a genius job of making Labour fall the wrong side of all these inflammatory culture war debates.
The "traveller incursions" thing. Jeez
Cf this Marina Hyde article in the Guardian. Perhaps the worst she has ever written, in terms of dull, witless misunderstanding (and she can be a genius writer). They don't know what to do or how to react
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/culture-war-government-race-report
See the Guardian's hysterical over-reaction to the Sewell Report:
"The Sewell report on racial disparity is an attempt to erase progress and sow division"
"Despite the Sewell report, No 10 can no longer remain in denial about racism"
"The poisonously patronising Sewell report is historically illiterate"
"The Guardian view on botanical gardens: inextricably linked to empire"
They are lemmings, rushing to the cliff of electoral oblivion, and someone quite clever in the Tories is deftly encouraging them
"Kew Gardens is right to confront its role in the history of British colonialism and racism"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/the-guardian-view-on-botanical-gardens-inextricably-linked-to-empire
God damn those RACIST FLOWERS. And those Nazi TREES. And shrubs! Always knew those evil SHRUBS were BIGOTS: like all white people.
Ideally, we should concrete over Kew Gardens and build a seventeen million metre high memorial to Winnie Mandela
You are rather over egging it.0 -
They should.isam said:Re the Asylum seeker who killed the girl in Exeter - Asylum seekers are here because they are escaping from war zones generally, they have seen things and had experiences that will have seriously messed them up - they probably have a rate of PTSD in comparable with front line military veterans. Shouldn’t they be given therapy or kept an eye on somehow as a matter of course? Not letting anyone off with excuses, but they’re not just everyday people who go bad
But, like almost everything to do with mental health they won't.
MH costs money. And the public don't see anyone mentally ill as "worthy".
We'd rather close our eyes to it then clutch our pearls when summat like this happens.3 -
Ten years for a plaque? Planning laws in the UK are a bitch.Leon said:
‘Kew Gardens has recently published a 10-year plan, which places a need to decolonise its collections'Foxy said:
Mostly it was a placque by the sugar cane, pointing out its place in the eighteenth century slave economy. A not unreasonable bit of background.Leon said:
Not a spoof. It is incredible. They are self-immolatingAndy_JS said:
The botanical gardens one must be a spoof. It can't be genuine.Leon said:Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite.Leon said:
The school - Pimlico? - that has caved to its kids burning the Union flag, is a disgraceLuckyguy1983 said:
Whether or not anything is 'wrong' with it, it is our national flag, and I'm surprised that teachers who are paid by our state have so much to say about flying the flag of that state on their place of work. I don't really think I want kids to be taught by people who hate their own country.Sunil_Prasannan said:
What's wrong with the Union Jack?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1378055338587529219
Bet we hear crickets from the usual suspects
My taxes pay for that school, those kids, their teachers. It is not a private enterprise.
Fly the damn flag, sack any teacher that objects, and expel any kids that, after a warning, still try to burn the flag. End of.
Tbf the Tories are doing a genius job of making Labour fall the wrong side of all these inflammatory culture war debates.
The "traveller incursions" thing. Jeez
Cf this Marina Hyde article in the Guardian. Perhaps the worst she has ever written, in terms of dull, witless misunderstanding (and she can be a genius writer). They don't know what to do or how to react
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/culture-war-government-race-report
See the Guardian's hysterical over-reaction to the Sewell Report:
"The Sewell report on racial disparity is an attempt to erase progress and sow division"
"Despite the Sewell report, No 10 can no longer remain in denial about racism"
"The poisonously patronising Sewell report is historically illiterate"
"The Guardian view on botanical gardens: inextricably linked to empire"
They are lemmings, rushing to the cliff of electoral oblivion, and someone quite clever in the Tories is deftly encouraging them
"Kew Gardens is right to confront its role in the history of British colonialism and racism"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/the-guardian-view-on-botanical-gardens-inextricably-linked-to-empire
God damn those RACIST FLOWERS. And those Nazi TREES. And shrubs! Always knew those evil SHRUBS were BIGOTS: like all white people.
Ideally, we should concrete over Kew Gardens and build a seventeen million metre high memorial to Winnie Mandela
You are rather over egging it.1 -
Slightly surprisingly, also the most widely produced of all US warplanes.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The B-24 Liberator in the picture was the most mass-produced 4-engine heavy bomber, c. 19,000 built.Malmesbury said:
AKA War Socialism.justin124 said:
Also true in wartime - ie 'when the chips are down!'ydoethur said:
‘Vote for me. My policies are so extreme they are the right response to a once in a century public health emergency.’justin124 said:
I am no Corbynite but- unlike Attlee and Thatcher - he appears to be the only Opposition Leader who succeeded in moving the Overton Window without achieving office as PM. Johnson and the Tories have - in essence - copied much of his economic policy!isam said:
I am 47 in December and in my lifetime only 3 LOTOs have become PM - Maggie, Blair and Cameron. It is a very rare occurrence. Those three all had something about them that Foot, Kinnock, Hague, IDS, Howard, Miliband, & Corbyn didn’t. I happen to think Sir Keir fits into the latter group more easily, and there is nothing in any data to persuade me otherwise. The eye test and the numbers concur. I post about it a lot because if you only read the headers you’d think the incumbent who leads the polls in almost every measure is the one who is struggling, and I think that is ridiculousstodge said:
Well, it's always good to read such serious, informed, impartial and expert analysis.moonshine said:Keir/Kier Starmer would make a pleasant neighbour. He’d bring his wheelie bin in the very day it’s emptied. He’d smile and say hello if we crossed paths on our morning rounds. I doubt he’d annoy me with gangster rap at 3am or throw used jonnies in my garden, as previous neighbours have done.
But he’s not leader of the neighbourhood watch material. And not that I assume to speak for her, but I don’t imagine my wife getting weak at the knees if she saw him jogging up the hill either. In short, he’s stuffed. Next!
Back in the real world, there's what I think and what I think is going on. From a personal perspective (and I would consider myself centre-left in outlook), Starmer has made a decent start. Cleaning the Augean stables of post-Corbyn Labour is and was never going to be easy and it's still very much a work in progress. How it will work in 2024 is hard to know and as Starmer extends his personal influence and control over policy, we'll see what kind of programme Labour puts forward.
The data so persistently put up by @isam tells a story - it doesn't tell the story. These have been unprecedented times and until now it's been easy to counter criticism of the Government and its actions. To paraphrase the American quiz show Jeopardy if the answer is "Labour would have done exactly the same" you can probably work out the question. I struggle to know what Starmer would have done differently had he been Prime Minister - he'd have hidden behind the "science" as adroitly as Johnson and would no doubt have dolled out the cash as enthusiastically as Sunak.
Only now are we starting to see some flickers of deviation from the general "let's get behind the Government" meme. The crisis is easing and normal service is returning and, to be fair, those speculating on the divide between authoritarian and liberal as the new political divide were doing so pre-Covid as well.
I've never voted Labour because they are an authoritarian, centralising party which believes any problem can be solved by enough State and Government (as you can see, I see Starmer and Johnson as two cheeks of the same posterior in that regard). In essence, therefore, why do we need a Labour Government when we already have one?
To be fair, that's just my serious, informed, partial and inexpert analysis but there you go...
Hmmm...doesn’t quite do it for me as a slogan.
"The people are going to get one kind of bomber. And it will only come in green."
0 -
A holiday in the Med is now a right, a necessity even, because its only 10C in London today.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
The 'stop all international travel because of killer variants' talk is very fragile when exposed to a drop in temperature,0 -
Perhaps such efforts could simply be labelled as 'including historical information and trivia to exhibits' rather than rather oversell it as 'confronting colonialism and racism'?Foxy said:
Mostly it was a placque by the sugar cane, pointing out its place in the eighteenth century slave economy. A not unreasonable bit of background.Leon said:
Not a spoof. It is incredible. They are self-immolatingAndy_JS said:
The botanical gardens one must be a spoof. It can't be genuine.Leon said:Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite.Leon said:
The school - Pimlico? - that has caved to its kids burning the Union flag, is a disgraceLuckyguy1983 said:
Whether or not anything is 'wrong' with it, it is our national flag, and I'm surprised that teachers who are paid by our state have so much to say about flying the flag of that state on their place of work. I don't really think I want kids to be taught by people who hate their own country.Sunil_Prasannan said:
What's wrong with the Union Jack?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1378055338587529219
Bet we hear crickets from the usual suspects
My taxes pay for that school, those kids, their teachers. It is not a private enterprise.
Fly the damn flag, sack any teacher that objects, and expel any kids that, after a warning, still try to burn the flag. End of.
Tbf the Tories are doing a genius job of making Labour fall the wrong side of all these inflammatory culture war debates.
The "traveller incursions" thing. Jeez
Cf this Marina Hyde article in the Guardian. Perhaps the worst she has ever written, in terms of dull, witless misunderstanding (and she can be a genius writer). They don't know what to do or how to react
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/culture-war-government-race-report
See the Guardian's hysterical over-reaction to the Sewell Report:
"The Sewell report on racial disparity is an attempt to erase progress and sow division"
"Despite the Sewell report, No 10 can no longer remain in denial about racism"
"The poisonously patronising Sewell report is historically illiterate"
"The Guardian view on botanical gardens: inextricably linked to empire"
They are lemmings, rushing to the cliff of electoral oblivion, and someone quite clever in the Tories is deftly encouraging them
"Kew Gardens is right to confront its role in the history of British colonialism and racism"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/the-guardian-view-on-botanical-gardens-inextricably-linked-to-empire
God damn those RACIST FLOWERS. And those Nazi TREES. And shrubs! Always knew those evil SHRUBS were BIGOTS: like all white people.
Ideally, we should concrete over Kew Gardens and build a seventeen million metre high memorial to Winnie Mandela
You are rather over egging it.
However true the latter might, and however much tackling them may be important, saying you are tacking the colonialism and racism of exhibits of plants practically invites derision. Most people, pro and con any measure, are not going to get past a headline of 'decolonise X'.
And how people describe these things matters, it's why absolutely moronic slogans which don't mean what they seem to mean should not be persisted with either. If the goal is to bring people along to reflect on and address issues, then toning down the moralising crusading language may well help the mass of people actually confront these issues more effectively.
Its easiest to sell something radical if it doesn't seem radical, and even then this doesn't even sound radical. If its common sense and context being sold, sell that, it's not difficult.
I find these types of things utterly ridiculous, as while it is true that there will always be a conservative reactionary, er, reaction, proponent sof measures don't need to make the job of reactionaries so damn easy!2 -
This that overstates Alan Duncan’s significance somewhat...Scott_xP said:0 -
A necessity ...... Not so muchanother_richard said:
A holiday in the Med is now a right, a necessity even, because its only 10C in London today.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
The 'stop all international travel because of killer variants' talk is very fragile when exposed to a drop in temperature,0 -
Whether it does or not I'm not clear how Duncan hating Boris is notable. Yes, a new memoir will no doubt give some fresh examples to chuckle over, but it's not like Duncan has not been on record with his view of Boris before, it's not like if it were, say, Javid suddenly releasing a memoir saying the same thing.Charles said:
This that overstates Alan Duncan’s significance somewhat...Scott_xP said:1 -
The answer is obvious. It IS in our interest the Russian speaking peoples inside Ukraine started speaking something European instead, like Ukrainian.Luckyguy1983 said:
You and Tom think it would be a good use our tanks and soldiers to defend Ukraine against the Russians? Not saying it isn't, just asking.Floater said:0 -
Curious its lack of impact in popular memory and imagination compared to the Flying Fortress and Mitchell.Theuniondivvie said:
Slightly surprisingly, also the most widely produced of all US warplanes.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The B-24 Liberator in the picture was the most mass-produced 4-engine heavy bomber, c. 19,000 built.Malmesbury said:
AKA War Socialism.justin124 said:
Also true in wartime - ie 'when the chips are down!'ydoethur said:
‘Vote for me. My policies are so extreme they are the right response to a once in a century public health emergency.’justin124 said:
I am no Corbynite but- unlike Attlee and Thatcher - he appears to be the only Opposition Leader who succeeded in moving the Overton Window without achieving office as PM. Johnson and the Tories have - in essence - copied much of his economic policy!isam said:
I am 47 in December and in my lifetime only 3 LOTOs have become PM - Maggie, Blair and Cameron. It is a very rare occurrence. Those three all had something about them that Foot, Kinnock, Hague, IDS, Howard, Miliband, & Corbyn didn’t. I happen to think Sir Keir fits into the latter group more easily, and there is nothing in any data to persuade me otherwise. The eye test and the numbers concur. I post about it a lot because if you only read the headers you’d think the incumbent who leads the polls in almost every measure is the one who is struggling, and I think that is ridiculousstodge said:
Well, it's always good to read such serious, informed, impartial and expert analysis.moonshine said:Keir/Kier Starmer would make a pleasant neighbour. He’d bring his wheelie bin in the very day it’s emptied. He’d smile and say hello if we crossed paths on our morning rounds. I doubt he’d annoy me with gangster rap at 3am or throw used jonnies in my garden, as previous neighbours have done.
But he’s not leader of the neighbourhood watch material. And not that I assume to speak for her, but I don’t imagine my wife getting weak at the knees if she saw him jogging up the hill either. In short, he’s stuffed. Next!
Back in the real world, there's what I think and what I think is going on. From a personal perspective (and I would consider myself centre-left in outlook), Starmer has made a decent start. Cleaning the Augean stables of post-Corbyn Labour is and was never going to be easy and it's still very much a work in progress. How it will work in 2024 is hard to know and as Starmer extends his personal influence and control over policy, we'll see what kind of programme Labour puts forward.
The data so persistently put up by @isam tells a story - it doesn't tell the story. These have been unprecedented times and until now it's been easy to counter criticism of the Government and its actions. To paraphrase the American quiz show Jeopardy if the answer is "Labour would have done exactly the same" you can probably work out the question. I struggle to know what Starmer would have done differently had he been Prime Minister - he'd have hidden behind the "science" as adroitly as Johnson and would no doubt have dolled out the cash as enthusiastically as Sunak.
Only now are we starting to see some flickers of deviation from the general "let's get behind the Government" meme. The crisis is easing and normal service is returning and, to be fair, those speculating on the divide between authoritarian and liberal as the new political divide were doing so pre-Covid as well.
I've never voted Labour because they are an authoritarian, centralising party which believes any problem can be solved by enough State and Government (as you can see, I see Starmer and Johnson as two cheeks of the same posterior in that regard). In essence, therefore, why do we need a Labour Government when we already have one?
To be fair, that's just my serious, informed, partial and inexpert analysis but there you go...
Hmmm...doesn’t quite do it for me as a slogan.
"The people are going to get one kind of bomber. And it will only come in green."0 -
The permutations of potential policies are almost infinite - does this refers to holidays before 21st June, after, some other date?Black_Rook said:
At some as yet to be determined point in the future, but most of us won't be getting that one.Andy_JS said:
Aren't we supposed to be using a single dose vaccine pretty soon? Maybe young people could be jabbed with it.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
That's a fair point. I guess it just sounds plausible because we know from past experience how slow they were to do anything about border measures before, how obsessed they appear to be with sunshine holidays and how much of the electorate would like to be free to go on them.Malmesbury said:
How much of the this is actual fact as opposed to newspaper reports?rottenborough said:
It's just nuts. They are all over the place. Earlier we were told by Johnson that vaccinated people could not meet indoors as vaccines are "not 100% efficient". Which begs the question as to when we will ever be allowed to meet indoors and also why they are bothering with a vaccine passport for meeting people indoors at pubs and theatres?glw said:
We seem to have made a mess of travel restrictions at each stage up to now, so I expect we will keep doing so.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
Now we are told that vaccinated people can go abroad. And come back.
And does anyone remember "data not dates" as the we look at the plummeting case numbers?
I recall that we were told by "people in the know" that Rishi was going to do nothing for business or the employed, a few hours before he announced the furlough scheme...
It also implies extra privileges for old people which is very Tory.
There are 2 strands of argument
- People fully vaccinated should be FREEEEEEEEE!*
- Everyone should have exactly the same right to do things at the same time.
When you add in the fact that the number of people in a population who are vaccinated has an effect as well (aka Herd Immunity)....
I suspect the timing on all of this will be actual answer.....
*Presumably charged a vast sum by a racist Australian to paint half their faces blue. Copyright etc.0 -
Ukrainian is not more European than Russian. It's essentially a dialect of the same language.gealbhan said:
The answer is obvious. It IS in our interest the Russian speaking peoples inside Ukraine started speaking something European instead, like Ukrainian.Luckyguy1983 said:
You and Tom think it would be a good use our tanks and soldiers to defend Ukraine against the Russians? Not saying it isn't, just asking.Floater said:0 -
As someone about to have the second vaccine, this does seem unreasonable to me as Black Rook suggests. Either we're expecting a third wave and therefore being ultra-caautious (last week's position, no?) or we think it's all over bar the shouting and can relax. I'd like to be able to travel as I've a lot of friends abroad, but it doesn't seem sensible, as it more or less guarantees that we'll get some new variants coming back in and restart the whole cycle.another_richard said:
A holiday in the Med is now a right, a necessity even, because its only 10C in London today.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
The 'stop all international travel because of killer variants' talk is very fragile when exposed to a drop in temperature,0 -
Quarantine is an effective prohibition on travel for practically anybody who has to work for a living, and doubly so for families with children. Once again, it privileges those who have finished their course of vaccination, who are primarily the old. Twentysomethings are highly likely to be left waiting for shot one until June and then again for another twelve weeks until September for shot two. Assuming that beach holidays in various Plague-ravaged Mediterranean resorts are decriminalised according to the pre-announced schedule, then playtime for everyone over 65 will get underway on May 17th.RobD said:
On your three points.Black_Rook said:
There are three points here.RobD said:
I imagine there will be very few countries that allow you in without a vaccine. Or if they do, you'll be spending the first two weeks of your holiday in quarantine.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
Firstly, at the end of all this misery, giving special privileges to the old that are denied to the young is evil.
Secondly, do we really want people going abroad in huge numbers and seeding the country with imported Plague variants when they come back? This plan sounds like an excuse to let holidaymakers go to countries with high or medium disease prevalence just because it will disappoint them not to let them go - yet the Government has already wet itself over the vaccines being less than 100% effective, to the extent that the Prime Minister is pleading with people who have all been vaccinated still not meeting up with one another indoors.
Thirdly, there's the total inconsistency, indeed the sheer stupidity, of approach: if it's perfectly safe for the vaccinated to go abroad then it's certainly safe for them to have the aforementioned tea parties. And. once everyone has been vaccinated, it's also safe to get rid of all the restrictions and not be dicking about with these wretched vaccine passports ID cards. I mean, honestly...
There is no privilege. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people will be able to travel. People without vaccination will have more rigorous testing/quarantine, but that simply reflects the fact that vaccinations protect against acquiring the disease.
I agree that travel shouldn't be encouraged, hopefully people will use common sense (I know).
It's not inconsistent because you aren't tested while going to someone's tea party as you are when entering another country, or returning to the UK.
And there is a complete inconsistency of approach here. Testing doesn't stop you catching the Plague and passing it around. The message at the moment appears to be "don't you dare meet anyone in your home, even if you are both vaccinated, because you could spread the Plague around." Yet we are meant to believe that there's nothing wrong with vaccinated people jetting across Europe to mingle with largely unvaccinated complete strangers and then coming back again, because it will be of null effect. Which is nonsense. Even if you attempt to test every single one of the millions of tourists coming back into the country at the airport, which will be a total logistical nightmare and may even be impossible, then you're going to have to let all the positive cases go home to isolate (there will never be enough hotel space to deal with them all) and most of them won't bother.
Therefore, if it's safe enough to allow foreign holidays then why can't we bin a load of other pettyfogging rules? And if it's not safe enough to allow foreign holidays then why measures like this be under consideration? If the Government is serious in its panic about people meeting indoors because the vaccines aren't effective enough then it ought already to have tightened controls on incoming travellers and told people to forget about holidays abroad for the medium term - because if we can't have our freedom back at home until the virus has been thoroughly crushed then it makes no sense to let people travel to places where it hasn't been, and that definition presently encompasses almost the entire globe.0 -
Ukrainian is also no LESS European than Russian.williamglenn said:
Ukrainian is not more European than Russian. It's essentially a dialect of the same language.gealbhan said:
The answer is obvious. It IS in our interest the Russian speaking peoples inside Ukraine started speaking something European instead, like Ukrainian.Luckyguy1983 said:
You and Tom think it would be a good use our tanks and soldiers to defend Ukraine against the Russians? Not saying it isn't, just asking.Floater said:0 -
Even if the UK government waived quarantine for non-vaccinated people, the country on the other side isn't. Travelling without a vaccine is going to be inconvenient, nothing the UK government does is going to change that.Black_Rook said:
Quarantine is an effective prohibition on travel for practically anybody who has to work for a living, and doubly so for families with children. Once again, it privileges those who have finished their course of vaccination, who are primarily the old. Twentysomethings are highly likely to be left waiting for shot one until June and then again for another twelve weeks until September for shot two. Assuming that beach holidays in various Plague-ravaged Mediterranean resorts are decriminalised according to the pre-announced schedule, then playtime for everyone over 65 will get underway on May 17th.RobD said:
On your three points.Black_Rook said:
There are three points here.RobD said:
I imagine there will be very few countries that allow you in without a vaccine. Or if they do, you'll be spending the first two weeks of your holiday in quarantine.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
Firstly, at the end of all this misery, giving special privileges to the old that are denied to the young is evil.
Secondly, do we really want people going abroad in huge numbers and seeding the country with imported Plague variants when they come back? This plan sounds like an excuse to let holidaymakers go to countries with high or medium disease prevalence just because it will disappoint them not to let them go - yet the Government has already wet itself over the vaccines being less than 100% effective, to the extent that the Prime Minister is pleading with people who have all been vaccinated still not meeting up with one another indoors.
Thirdly, there's the total inconsistency, indeed the sheer stupidity, of approach: if it's perfectly safe for the vaccinated to go abroad then it's certainly safe for them to have the aforementioned tea parties. And. once everyone has been vaccinated, it's also safe to get rid of all the restrictions and not be dicking about with these wretched vaccine passports ID cards. I mean, honestly...
There is no privilege. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people will be able to travel. People without vaccination will have more rigorous testing/quarantine, but that simply reflects the fact that vaccinations protect against acquiring the disease.
I agree that travel shouldn't be encouraged, hopefully people will use common sense (I know).
It's not inconsistent because you aren't tested while going to someone's tea party as you are when entering another country, or returning to the UK.
And there is a complete inconsistency of approach here. Testing doesn't stop you catching the Plague and passing it around. The message at the moment appears to be "don't you dare meet anyone in your home, even if you are both vaccinated, because you could spread the Plague around." Yet we are meant to believe that there's nothing wrong with vaccinated people jetting across Europe to mingle with largely unvaccinated complete strangers and then coming back again, because it will be of null effect. Which is nonsense. Even if you attempt to test every single one of the millions of tourists coming back into the country at the airport, which will be a total logistical nightmare and may even be impossible, then you're going to have to let all the positive cases go home to isolate (there will never be enough hotel space to deal with them all) and most of them won't bother.
Therefore, if it's safe enough to allow foreign holidays then why can't we bin a load of other pettyfogging rules? And if it's not safe enough to allow foreign holidays then why measures like this be under consideration? If the Government is serious in its panic about people meeting indoors because the vaccines aren't effective enough then it ought already to have tightened controls on incoming travellers and told people to forget about holidays abroad for the medium term - because if we can't have our freedom back at home until the virus has been thoroughly crushed then it makes no sense to let people travel to places where it hasn't been, and that definition presently encompasses almost the entire globe.
As for the mixed messaging. I think the timescales are different. The headlines are about summer holidays (aren't they always?), whereas the government advice regarding social gatherings is for now. They are planning on implementing these changes to the travel at the end of May.
And do you really think there are going to be millions of tourists going and coming back in a short timescale? I very much doubt that.0 -
Great Rishi "get back to the office or you're getting sacked" is back0
-
Russia is, by population, mostly a european nation.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Ukrainian is also no LESS European than Russian.williamglenn said:
Ukrainian is not more European than Russian. It's essentially a dialect of the same language.gealbhan said:
The answer is obvious. It IS in our interest the Russian speaking peoples inside Ukraine started speaking something European instead, like Ukrainian.Luckyguy1983 said:
You and Tom think it would be a good use our tanks and soldiers to defend Ukraine against the Russians? Not saying it isn't, just asking.Floater said:
In fact, the largest european nation by both population and area.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_language_is_a_dialect_with_an_army_and_navywilliamglenn said:
Ukrainian is not more European than Russian. It's essentially a dialect of the same language.gealbhan said:
The answer is obvious. It IS in our interest the Russian speaking peoples inside Ukraine started speaking something European instead, like Ukrainian.Luckyguy1983 said:
You and Tom think it would be a good use our tanks and soldiers to defend Ukraine against the Russians? Not saying it isn't, just asking.Floater said:1 -
Can't the Gov't just change the official advice to "employer/employee choice" without all the willy waving ?CorrectHorseBattery said:Great Rishi "get back to the office or you're getting sacked" is back
2 -
I'm not so concerned at the moment about the prospect of a genuine vaccine-escaping variant, although it's probably wise to minimise incoming travel for the time being - my real problem with trying to jump start mass tourism for British holidaymakers is the potential to seed to country with something like the Saffer Plague, which at the moment is being dealt with through a combination of the Kent variant competing with it and being swatted by contact tracing and surge testing efforts. It's not worth the risk. It would be better to wait until other countries have caught up with us in terms of viral suppression, and then opening air bridges with them.NickPalmer said:
As someone about to have the second vaccine, this does seem unreasonable to me as Black Rook suggests. Either we're expecting a third wave and therefore being ultra-caautious (last week's position, no?) or we think it's all over bar the shouting and can relax. I'd like to be able to travel as I've a lot of friends abroad, but it doesn't seem sensible, as it more or less guarantees that we'll get some new variants coming back in and restart the whole cycle.another_richard said:
A holiday in the Med is now a right, a necessity even, because its only 10C in London today.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
The 'stop all international travel because of killer variants' talk is very fragile when exposed to a drop in temperature,
Beyond that it's simply the fact that we are told that it's desperately important that two vaccinated people from two different households don't hug each other or sit down in one of their houses for a cup of coffee and a natter, whereas it's being implied from these reports that it'll be absolutely fine for a vaccinated holidaymaker to board a plane and go the Majorca for a fortnight. If true then it's nuts: either both things are safe or both are to be avoided - although frankly, using common sense and based on the data that the Government claims to be following, you would've actually thought that it would be safer to dump all the restrictions here and try to keep the Plague out at the borders, then start opening the aforementioned air bridges to popular holiday destinations as and when they've caught us up.3 -
Europe is a state of mind, maaanPulpstar said:
Russia is, by population, mostly a european nation.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Ukrainian is also no LESS European than Russian.williamglenn said:
Ukrainian is not more European than Russian. It's essentially a dialect of the same language.gealbhan said:
The answer is obvious. It IS in our interest the Russian speaking peoples inside Ukraine started speaking something European instead, like Ukrainian.Luckyguy1983 said:
You and Tom think it would be a good use our tanks and soldiers to defend Ukraine against the Russians? Not saying it isn't, just asking.Floater said:
In fact, the largest european nation by both population and area.1 -
In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish1
-
One of my colleagues is vaccinated. Her husband might be getting a first dose shortly. Her kids aren't. How does that work for vaccine passports. Does she jet off without them ?0
-
Indeed.kle4 said:
Perhaps such efforts could simply be labelled as 'including historical information and trivia to exhibits' rather than rather oversell it as 'confronting colonialism and racism'?Foxy said:
Mostly it was a placque by the sugar cane, pointing out its place in the eighteenth century slave economy. A not unreasonable bit of background.Leon said:
Not a spoof. It is incredible. They are self-immolatingAndy_JS said:
The botanical gardens one must be a spoof. It can't be genuine.Leon said:Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite.Leon said:
The school - Pimlico? - that has caved to its kids burning the Union flag, is a disgraceLuckyguy1983 said:
Whether or not anything is 'wrong' with it, it is our national flag, and I'm surprised that teachers who are paid by our state have so much to say about flying the flag of that state on their place of work. I don't really think I want kids to be taught by people who hate their own country.Sunil_Prasannan said:
What's wrong with the Union Jack?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1378055338587529219
Bet we hear crickets from the usual suspects
My taxes pay for that school, those kids, their teachers. It is not a private enterprise.
Fly the damn flag, sack any teacher that objects, and expel any kids that, after a warning, still try to burn the flag. End of.
Tbf the Tories are doing a genius job of making Labour fall the wrong side of all these inflammatory culture war debates.
The "traveller incursions" thing. Jeez
Cf this Marina Hyde article in the Guardian. Perhaps the worst she has ever written, in terms of dull, witless misunderstanding (and she can be a genius writer). They don't know what to do or how to react
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/culture-war-government-race-report
See the Guardian's hysterical over-reaction to the Sewell Report:
"The Sewell report on racial disparity is an attempt to erase progress and sow division"
"Despite the Sewell report, No 10 can no longer remain in denial about racism"
"The poisonously patronising Sewell report is historically illiterate"
"The Guardian view on botanical gardens: inextricably linked to empire"
They are lemmings, rushing to the cliff of electoral oblivion, and someone quite clever in the Tories is deftly encouraging them
"Kew Gardens is right to confront its role in the history of British colonialism and racism"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/the-guardian-view-on-botanical-gardens-inextricably-linked-to-empire
God damn those RACIST FLOWERS. And those Nazi TREES. And shrubs! Always knew those evil SHRUBS were BIGOTS: like all white people.
Ideally, we should concrete over Kew Gardens and build a seventeen million metre high memorial to Winnie Mandela
You are rather over egging it.
However true the latter might, and however much tackling them may be important, saying you are tacking the colonialism and racism of exhibits of plants practically invites derision. Most people, pro and con any measure, are not going to get past a headline of 'decolonise X'.
And how people describe these things matters, it's why absolutely moronic slogans which don't mean what they seem to mean should not be persisted with either. If the goal is to bring people along to reflect on and address issues, then toning down the moralising crusading language may well help the mass of people actually confront these issues more effectively.
Its easiest to sell something radical if it doesn't seem radical, and even then this doesn't even sound radical. If its common sense and context being sold, sell that, it's not difficult.
I find these types of things utterly ridiculous, as while it is true that there will always be a conservative reactionary, er, reaction, proponent sof measures don't need to make the job of reactionaries so damn easy!
The link is here:
https://www.kew.org/read-and-watch/time-to-decolonise-botanical-collections0 -
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
0 -
Second time's the charm.CorrectHorseBattery said:Great Rishi "get back to the office or you're getting sacked" is back
Most employers are not good employers. Ultimately it's surely up to employers to set the terms for employment with them, within the law, and if they are able to fill vacancies to their satisfaction, well, it is what it is. Politicians in government and opposition love to sound off on what they would encourage employers to do, but unless it comes with legislative action all such comments can be entirely ignored, the ones we like and the ones we do not like. Since the gov won't take up pulpstar's suggestion, we can at least ignore the willy waving anyway.CorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
0 -
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
0 -
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
2 -
British Society for Haematology notes on the very rare vaccine related clotting episodes.
https://b-s-h.org.uk/about-us/news/guidance-produced-from-the-expert-haematology-panel-ehp-focussed-on-syndrome-of-thrombosis-and-thrombocytopenia-occurring-after-coronavirus-vaccination/
An expert team of our peers have recently been involved in diagnosing and managing a rare syndrome of thrombosis associated with low platelets which have been reported in a few cases. At the moment, any causal association with coronavirus vaccination has not been established. However, if you identify patients with this syndrome in proximity to coronavirus vaccination, it is very important that you complete the online yellow card - this will trigger a request from MHRA for further details.
The cases are unusual because, despite the thrombocytopenia, there is progressive thrombosis, primarily venous, with a high preponderance of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis. Some arterial thrombotic events have also been noted. Testing typically reveals low fibrinogen and very raised D-Dimer levels above the level typically expected in venous thromboembolism. Antibodies to platelet factor 4 (PF4) have been identified, hence there are similarities to heparin-induced thrombocytopenia despite the absence of prior exposure to heparin treatment. The anti PF4 antibodies can be detected by the ELISA HIT assay but not always by the AccuStar assay.
It is important that the correct management is applied to prevent the progression of thrombosis. Of critical note, platelet transfusions should be avoided...0 -
I wonder if film (12 O’Clock High for the B 17) and fiction (Catch-22 for the Mitchell) had anything to do with it?another_richard said:
Curious its lack of impact in popular memory and imagination compared to the Flying Fortress and Mitchell.
0 -
I think my question is why is Rishi doing back to the office pieces whilst official advice is wfh ?Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
If its changing then ok, but is it ?1 -
Stack Overflow is that way ->Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
(Yes, I am joking)1 -
Maybe people could be tested before travelling. I don't know whether that type of test is available yet.Pulpstar said:One of my colleagues is vaccinated. Her husband might be getting a first dose shortly. Her kids aren't. How does that work for vaccine passports. Does she jet off without them ?
0 -
Is official advice wfh? I thought it was "wfh if your employer thinks its viable and that's up to them"?Pulpstar said:
I think my question is why is Rishi doing back to the office pieces whilst official advice is wfh ?Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
If its changing then ok, but is it ?0 -
No.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
1 -
Mitchell designed the iconic Spitfire which was crucial in the Battle of Britain on which turned not only our survival but also the whole war in Europe.another_richard said:
Curious its lack of impact in popular memory and imagination compared to the Flying Fortress and Mitchell.Theuniondivvie said:
Slightly surprisingly, also the most widely produced of all US warplanes.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The B-24 Liberator in the picture was the most mass-produced 4-engine heavy bomber, c. 19,000 built.Malmesbury said:
AKA War Socialism.justin124 said:
Also true in wartime - ie 'when the chips are down!'ydoethur said:
‘Vote for me. My policies are so extreme they are the right response to a once in a century public health emergency.’justin124 said:
I am no Corbynite but- unlike Attlee and Thatcher - he appears to be the only Opposition Leader who succeeded in moving the Overton Window without achieving office as PM. Johnson and the Tories have - in essence - copied much of his economic policy!isam said:
I am 47 in December and in my lifetime only 3 LOTOs have become PM - Maggie, Blair and Cameron. It is a very rare occurrence. Those three all had something about them that Foot, Kinnock, Hague, IDS, Howard, Miliband, & Corbyn didn’t. I happen to think Sir Keir fits into the latter group more easily, and there is nothing in any data to persuade me otherwise. The eye test and the numbers concur. I post about it a lot because if you only read the headers you’d think the incumbent who leads the polls in almost every measure is the one who is struggling, and I think that is ridiculousstodge said:
Well, it's always good to read such serious, informed, impartial and expert analysis.moonshine said:Keir/Kier Starmer would make a pleasant neighbour. He’d bring his wheelie bin in the very day it’s emptied. He’d smile and say hello if we crossed paths on our morning rounds. I doubt he’d annoy me with gangster rap at 3am or throw used jonnies in my garden, as previous neighbours have done.
But he’s not leader of the neighbourhood watch material. And not that I assume to speak for her, but I don’t imagine my wife getting weak at the knees if she saw him jogging up the hill either. In short, he’s stuffed. Next!
Back in the real world, there's what I think and what I think is going on. From a personal perspective (and I would consider myself centre-left in outlook), Starmer has made a decent start. Cleaning the Augean stables of post-Corbyn Labour is and was never going to be easy and it's still very much a work in progress. How it will work in 2024 is hard to know and as Starmer extends his personal influence and control over policy, we'll see what kind of programme Labour puts forward.
The data so persistently put up by @isam tells a story - it doesn't tell the story. These have been unprecedented times and until now it's been easy to counter criticism of the Government and its actions. To paraphrase the American quiz show Jeopardy if the answer is "Labour would have done exactly the same" you can probably work out the question. I struggle to know what Starmer would have done differently had he been Prime Minister - he'd have hidden behind the "science" as adroitly as Johnson and would no doubt have dolled out the cash as enthusiastically as Sunak.
Only now are we starting to see some flickers of deviation from the general "let's get behind the Government" meme. The crisis is easing and normal service is returning and, to be fair, those speculating on the divide between authoritarian and liberal as the new political divide were doing so pre-Covid as well.
I've never voted Labour because they are an authoritarian, centralising party which believes any problem can be solved by enough State and Government (as you can see, I see Starmer and Johnson as two cheeks of the same posterior in that regard). In essence, therefore, why do we need a Labour Government when we already have one?
To be fair, that's just my serious, informed, partial and inexpert analysis but there you go...
Hmmm...doesn’t quite do it for me as a slogan.
"The people are going to get one kind of bomber. And it will only come in green."
The Liberator was most notable for its use in winning the Battle of the Atlantic by closing the mid-Atlantic gap in which U-boats could not be reached by air, for it was aircraft and not ship-borne depth charges that destroyed most U-boats by the end of the war. It is a shame Coastal Command never got its hands on the Lancaster because Churchill was too keen on blowing up French turnips and cows in a hugely inaccurate and ineffective campaign of area bombing. The RAF rejected the Liberator as a heavy bomber.
What probably is under-appreciated is the sheer scale of American (and by the end of the war, also Soviet) military production: tanks, aircraft, ships and even code-breaking bombe machines. There ought to be a statue commemorating the Detroit production lines.1 -
Thanks for the reply.SandyRentool said:
I've been with the company 8 years and it was how we worked when I joined. Back then, one member of our team was based in Dublin.Andy_JS said:
Which year did you start working virtually?SandyRentool said:Good evening all.
One day per fortnight to see colleagues for a chat will be enough for me.
That is all I had anyway, as I am based in a different office to the rest of the team.
One or two are also dotted about in other locations, so virtual working was already the norm for us.
After work socialising was maybe once every 3 months.
I might pop in to my base office if I want to print off a pile of drawings, otherwise there is just background noise and poor coffee.0 -
Plus Memphis Belle and 30 Seconds Over Tokyo.Theuniondivvie said:
I wonder if film (12 O’Clock High for the B 17) and fiction (Catch-22 for the Mitchell) had anything to do with it?another_richard said:
Curious its lack of impact in popular memory and imagination compared to the Flying Fortress and Mitchell.0 -
Remarkably frank article by Republican former Speaker John Boehner.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/04/02/john-boehner-book-memoir-excerpt-478506
.... At some point after the 2008 election, something changed with my friend Roger Ailes. I once met him in New York during the Obama years to plead with him to put a leash on some of the crazies he was putting on the air. It was making my job trying to accomplish anything conservative that much harder. I didn’t expect this meeting to change anything, but I still thought it was bullshit, and I wanted Roger to know it.
When I put it to him like that, he didn’t have much to say. But he did go on and on about the terrorist attack on the U.S. Embassy in Benghazi, which he thought was part of a grand conspiracy that led back to Hillary Clinton. Then he outlined elaborate plots by which George Soros and the Clintons and Obama (and whoever else came to mind) were trying to destroy him....
...Under the new rules of Crazytown, I may have been Speaker, but I didn’t hold all the power. By 2013 the chaos caucus in the House had built up their own power base thanks to fawning right-wing media and outrage-driven fundraising cash. And now they had a new head lunatic leading the way, who wasn’t even a House member. There is nothing more dangerous than a reckless asshole who thinks he is smarter than everyone else. Ladies and gentlemen, meet Senator Ted Cruz....1 -
We have a bunch of new hires who have started remotely in India, they've all been trained remotely and it's been fine.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
Is it ideal? No, can it be done? Absolutely.
The word balance is there again, if you're going to WFH I am fully supportive of a couple of weeks in-person training.
It can be done, absolutely if employers are willing to.0 -
We've done it in our organisation - there are staff working well (in my opinion) who have never met any of us in the flesh. As we're global, that was true even before the pandemic - I've never met most of my US colleagues, and most of them work in different cities and rarely meet each other either. It's hard to think of many office jobs where it really matters, except for the nebulous benefits ascribed to meeting by the water-cooler/tea kettle. In 20 years, I suspect that most office jobs will be entirely distant, and regional differences will diminish as a result, since there will no longer be a reason to live near your job. It's just that most people are used to the office model, so it feels alien now.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
The rule should be that an employer who insists without a demonstrable reason on someone working in the office while the infection is still widespread is behaving badly, but if they can plausibly argue that face-to-face training is needed, fair enough.1 -
Not really, the city of Nikolayev is known as Mikolaiv in Ukrainian.williamglenn said:
Ukrainian is not more European than Russian. It's essentially a dialect of the same language.gealbhan said:
The answer is obvious. It IS in our interest the Russian speaking peoples inside Ukraine started speaking something European instead, like Ukrainian.Luckyguy1983 said:
You and Tom think it would be a good use our tanks and soldiers to defend Ukraine against the Russians? Not saying it isn't, just asking.Floater said:0 -
It's wfh if possible at the moment. Last year it was employer's choice for a while but got changed back.Gallowgate said:
Is official advice wfh? I thought it was "wfh if your employer thinks its viable and that's up to them"?Pulpstar said:
I think my question is why is Rishi doing back to the office pieces whilst official advice is wfh ?Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
If its changing then ok, but is it ?
0 -
Creative jobs need bases, they need offices. Ditto those that want to meet clients. The idea that 100% remote working is a substitute for some in-person days is for the birds. Do 3,4,5 day fortnights in the office, that’s probably fine for most companies. But 100% remote? Nope. Many have stress tested that over the year - and are desperate to see colleagues again.NickPalmer said:
We've done it in our organisation - there are staff working well (in my opinion) who have never met any of us in the flesh. As we're global, that was true even before the pandemic - I've never met most of my US colleagues, and most of them work in different cities and rarely meet each other either. It's hard to think of many office jobs where it really matters, except for the nebulous benefits ascribed to meeting by the water-cooler/tea kettle. In 20 years, I suspect that most office jobs will be entirely distant, and regional differences will diminish as a result, since there will no longer be a reason to live near your job. It's just that most people are used to the office model, so it feels alien now.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
The rule should be that an employer who insists without a demonstrable reason on someone working in the office while the infection is still widespread is behaving badly, but if they can plausibly argue that face-to-face training is needed, fair enough.1 -
Both Russian and Ukrainian are East Slavic languages. Ukrainian has a lot of Polish influences, eg dyakuyu instead of spasibo for thank you, snidanok instead of zavtrak for breakfast. What is best is that Russia stops thinking that Eastern European people who speak Russian are necessarily Russians. Just as English-speaking people who live on an island west of Great Britain are not English, they are Irishwilliamglenn said:
Ukrainian is not more European than Russian. It's essentially a dialect of the same language.gealbhan said:
The answer is obvious. It IS in our interest the Russian speaking peoples inside Ukraine started speaking something European instead, like Ukrainian.Luckyguy1983 said:
You and Tom think it would be a good use our tanks and soldiers to defend Ukraine against the Russians? Not saying it isn't, just asking.Floater said:0 -
yesGallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
0 -
In person does absolutely bugger all but act as a distraction for most people. You just claim it does because you like being in the office and want other people to be there too. That is the real problem those that want to return to office working have realised that though they want to be in the office and can do so at their choice have realised that most of the office wont be joining them so they are trying to make out we also need to be in the office so they aren't lonely.Anabobazina said:
Creative jobs need bases, they need offices. Ditto those that want to meet clients. The idea that 100% remote working is a substitute for some in-person days is for the birds. Do 3,4,5 day fortnights in the office, that’s probably fine for most companies. But 100% remote? Nope. Many have stress tested that over the year - and are desperate to see colleagues again.NickPalmer said:
We've done it in our organisation - there are staff working well (in my opinion) who have never met any of us in the flesh. As we're global, that was true even before the pandemic - I've never met most of my US colleagues, and most of them work in different cities and rarely meet each other either. It's hard to think of many office jobs where it really matters, except for the nebulous benefits ascribed to meeting by the water-cooler/tea kettle. In 20 years, I suspect that most office jobs will be entirely distant, and regional differences will diminish as a result, since there will no longer be a reason to live near your job. It's just that most people are used to the office model, so it feels alien now.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
The rule should be that an employer who insists without a demonstrable reason on someone working in the office while the infection is still widespread is behaving badly, but if they can plausibly argue that face-to-face training is needed, fair enough.
Get over it, the majority of jobs coming through my email these days from agents are advertising 100% from home because they realise its a selling point.0 -
Trouble is, the 3 out of 10 days at the office, or whatever ratio you choose, will not lead to a reduction in office space requirements if everyone needs to be there at the same time, and if they do not then what is the point of mandating attendance in the first place?Anabobazina said:
Creative jobs need bases, they need offices. Ditto those that want to meet clients. The idea that 100% remote working is a substitute for some in-person days is for the birds. Do 3,4,5 day fortnights in the office, that’s probably fine for most companies. But 100% remote? Nope. Many have stress tested that over the year - and are desperate to see colleagues again.NickPalmer said:
We've done it in our organisation - there are staff working well (in my opinion) who have never met any of us in the flesh. As we're global, that was true even before the pandemic - I've never met most of my US colleagues, and most of them work in different cities and rarely meet each other either. It's hard to think of many office jobs where it really matters, except for the nebulous benefits ascribed to meeting by the water-cooler/tea kettle. In 20 years, I suspect that most office jobs will be entirely distant, and regional differences will diminish as a result, since there will no longer be a reason to live near your job. It's just that most people are used to the office model, so it feels alien now.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
The rule should be that an employer who insists without a demonstrable reason on someone working in the office while the infection is still widespread is behaving badly, but if they can plausibly argue that face-to-face training is needed, fair enough.0 -
A lot of companies are moving to 100% working from home judging by the emails I get from agents. Anobazaina loves being in the office is all and wants other people to be there so he isn't on his own.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Trouble is, the 3 out of 10 days at the office, or whatever ratio you choose, will not lead to a reduction in office space requirements if everyone needs to be there at the same time, and if they do not then what is the point of mandating attendance in the first place?Anabobazina said:
Creative jobs need bases, they need offices. Ditto those that want to meet clients. The idea that 100% remote working is a substitute for some in-person days is for the birds. Do 3,4,5 day fortnights in the office, that’s probably fine for most companies. But 100% remote? Nope. Many have stress tested that over the year - and are desperate to see colleagues again.NickPalmer said:
We've done it in our organisation - there are staff working well (in my opinion) who have never met any of us in the flesh. As we're global, that was true even before the pandemic - I've never met most of my US colleagues, and most of them work in different cities and rarely meet each other either. It's hard to think of many office jobs where it really matters, except for the nebulous benefits ascribed to meeting by the water-cooler/tea kettle. In 20 years, I suspect that most office jobs will be entirely distant, and regional differences will diminish as a result, since there will no longer be a reason to live near your job. It's just that most people are used to the office model, so it feels alien now.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
The rule should be that an employer who insists without a demonstrable reason on someone working in the office while the infection is still widespread is behaving badly, but if they can plausibly argue that face-to-face training is needed, fair enough.0 -
As someone who spent a decade working from home in remote (and often international) teams, I'd say team-building is made harder by distance; training too but so much training is online now anyway even for teams that are based at the office.Pagan2 said:
yesGallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
0 -
There is a middle message - the vaccines work well against strains common in the UK, therefore double vaxxed people are safe in the UK, but most of the world can't be arsed to sequence properly. Consequently going on foreign holidays increase the risk of importing a more vaccine resistant strain of rona, hence foreign travel may need to be limited.Leon said:
Cf America, allowing travel and society for the vaccinatedBlack_Rook said:
There are three points here.RobD said:
I imagine there will be very few countries that allow you in without a vaccine. Or if they do, you'll be spending the first two weeks of your holiday in quarantine.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1378090013339099136
I wonder if this may be what we have coming tomorrow (on top of formal confirmation of April 12th): a sunshine holiday free-for-all - but only for anybody who has been jabbed twice?
Confinement for the young, playtime for the old - and yet, absolutely no mass importation of Plague variants. Because, although Covid is so fucking lethal that the vaccinated daren't have a cup of tea indoors together, jetting off to the Algarve creates (by means yet to be explained) a miraculous forcefield that renders the virus completely inert.
We are ruled over by imbeciles.
Firstly, at the end of all this misery, giving special privileges to the old that are denied to the young is evil.
Secondly, do we really want people going abroad in huge numbers and seeding the country with imported Plague variants when they come back? This plan sounds like an excuse to let holidaymakers go to countries with high or medium disease prevalence just because it will disappoint them not to let them go - yet the Government has already wet itself over the vaccines being less than 100% effective, to the extent that the Prime Minister is pleading with people who have all been vaccinated still not meeting up with one another indoors.
Thirdly, there's the total inconsistency, indeed the sheer stupidity, of approach: if it's perfectly safe for the vaccinated to go abroad then it's certainly safe for them to have the aforementioned tea parties. And. once everyone has been vaccinated, it's also safe to get rid of all the restrictions and not be dicking about with these wretched vaccine passports ID cards. I mean, honestly...
They have a point. How can you disallow these things for people who are jabbed and safe?
The message you are sending is, either the vaccines DO work and you can return to normal life, or no, they don't work, stay indoors and at home, until we are all jabbed (but if the jabs don't work why is that any better?)
It's a dilemma for any government. And in terms of the economy and logic they surely have to err on the side of liberty for the jabbed, I reckon - then just hope that everyone gets jabbed so fast it makes no odds, and, also, the young will disobey anyway1 -
All our training over the last few years has been online courses. Mentoring can easily be done as well remotely because mostly you are looking at screens anyway and explaining stuff. Just means you have to make an effort to ask them explain it back to me to see if they understood mostly.DecrepiterJohnL said:
As someone who spent a decade working from home in remote (and often international) teams, I'd say team-building is made harder by distance; training too but so much training is online now anyway even for teams that are based at the office.Pagan2 said:
yesGallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
0 -
We shall see. I expect first generation WFH teams will, in general, love it. Their successors, who are no longer paid London salaries for WFH in Ipswich, might be slightly less impressed. I gather America is leading the way here.Pagan2 said:
A lot of companies are moving to 100% working from home judging by the emails I get from agents. Anobazaina loves being in the office is all and wants other people to be there so he isn't on his own.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Trouble is, the 3 out of 10 days at the office, or whatever ratio you choose, will not lead to a reduction in office space requirements if everyone needs to be there at the same time, and if they do not then what is the point of mandating attendance in the first place?Anabobazina said:
Creative jobs need bases, they need offices. Ditto those that want to meet clients. The idea that 100% remote working is a substitute for some in-person days is for the birds. Do 3,4,5 day fortnights in the office, that’s probably fine for most companies. But 100% remote? Nope. Many have stress tested that over the year - and are desperate to see colleagues again.NickPalmer said:
We've done it in our organisation - there are staff working well (in my opinion) who have never met any of us in the flesh. As we're global, that was true even before the pandemic - I've never met most of my US colleagues, and most of them work in different cities and rarely meet each other either. It's hard to think of many office jobs where it really matters, except for the nebulous benefits ascribed to meeting by the water-cooler/tea kettle. In 20 years, I suspect that most office jobs will be entirely distant, and regional differences will diminish as a result, since there will no longer be a reason to live near your job. It's just that most people are used to the office model, so it feels alien now.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
The rule should be that an employer who insists without a demonstrable reason on someone working in the office while the infection is still widespread is behaving badly, but if they can plausibly argue that face-to-face training is needed, fair enough.0 -
I don't get london weighting anyway nor do most of the country the number that do is so small as to be largely irrelevantDecrepiterJohnL said:
We shall see. I expect first generation WFH teams will, in general, love it. Their successors, who are no longer paid London salaries for WFH in Ipswich, might be slightly less impressed. I gather America is leading the way here.Pagan2 said:
A lot of companies are moving to 100% working from home judging by the emails I get from agents. Anobazaina loves being in the office is all and wants other people to be there so he isn't on his own.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Trouble is, the 3 out of 10 days at the office, or whatever ratio you choose, will not lead to a reduction in office space requirements if everyone needs to be there at the same time, and if they do not then what is the point of mandating attendance in the first place?Anabobazina said:
Creative jobs need bases, they need offices. Ditto those that want to meet clients. The idea that 100% remote working is a substitute for some in-person days is for the birds. Do 3,4,5 day fortnights in the office, that’s probably fine for most companies. But 100% remote? Nope. Many have stress tested that over the year - and are desperate to see colleagues again.NickPalmer said:
We've done it in our organisation - there are staff working well (in my opinion) who have never met any of us in the flesh. As we're global, that was true even before the pandemic - I've never met most of my US colleagues, and most of them work in different cities and rarely meet each other either. It's hard to think of many office jobs where it really matters, except for the nebulous benefits ascribed to meeting by the water-cooler/tea kettle. In 20 years, I suspect that most office jobs will be entirely distant, and regional differences will diminish as a result, since there will no longer be a reason to live near your job. It's just that most people are used to the office model, so it feels alien now.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
The rule should be that an employer who insists without a demonstrable reason on someone working in the office while the infection is still widespread is behaving badly, but if they can plausibly argue that face-to-face training is needed, fair enough.0 -
In-person is far better for many tasks; solitary is far better for other tasks. Hybrid working is the way forward.2
-
From my experience I don't think that's always right - but we're talking about two different things, what people want to do and what employers want. I know a number of people who have creative jobs with constant interaction with a wide range of people who do them very well remotely. After all, many creative jobs are almost entirely remote - I believe Leon is acquainted with a writer and can perhaps confirm whether he needs company to write.Anabobazina said:
Creative jobs need bases, they need offices. Ditto those that want to meet clients. The idea that 100% remote working is a substitute for some in-person days is for the birds. Do 3,4,5 day fortnights in the office, that’s probably fine for most companies. But 100% remote? Nope. Many have stress tested that over the year - and are desperate to see colleagues again.
I agree that most people like seeing their colleagues, but I wonder if that's because we're used to it. Being able to see friends and family is crucial for happiness for nearly everyone. Being able to see the guy at the next desk, probably doing something different to you? Not so much, perhaps? It really depends on the nature of the office and on the individuals - we can't generalise successfully.0 -
I referred specifically to software engineering, kind of gone off topic here.0
-
We shall see. Look, I spent the last decade WFH for multi-national companies so am by no means opposed to it -- merely pointing out there are downsides as well as advantages.Pagan2 said:
I don't get london weighting anyway nor do most of the country the number that do is so small as to be largely irrelevantDecrepiterJohnL said:
We shall see. I expect first generation WFH teams will, in general, love it. Their successors, who are no longer paid London salaries for WFH in Ipswich, might be slightly less impressed. I gather America is leading the way here.Pagan2 said:
A lot of companies are moving to 100% working from home judging by the emails I get from agents. Anobazaina loves being in the office is all and wants other people to be there so he isn't on his own.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Trouble is, the 3 out of 10 days at the office, or whatever ratio you choose, will not lead to a reduction in office space requirements if everyone needs to be there at the same time, and if they do not then what is the point of mandating attendance in the first place?Anabobazina said:
Creative jobs need bases, they need offices. Ditto those that want to meet clients. The idea that 100% remote working is a substitute for some in-person days is for the birds. Do 3,4,5 day fortnights in the office, that’s probably fine for most companies. But 100% remote? Nope. Many have stress tested that over the year - and are desperate to see colleagues again.NickPalmer said:
We've done it in our organisation - there are staff working well (in my opinion) who have never met any of us in the flesh. As we're global, that was true even before the pandemic - I've never met most of my US colleagues, and most of them work in different cities and rarely meet each other either. It's hard to think of many office jobs where it really matters, except for the nebulous benefits ascribed to meeting by the water-cooler/tea kettle. In 20 years, I suspect that most office jobs will be entirely distant, and regional differences will diminish as a result, since there will no longer be a reason to live near your job. It's just that most people are used to the office model, so it feels alien now.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
The rule should be that an employer who insists without a demonstrable reason on someone working in the office while the infection is still widespread is behaving badly, but if they can plausibly argue that face-to-face training is needed, fair enough.1 -
Balance is the key, good employers should offer balance.DecrepiterJohnL said:
We shall see. Look, I spent the last decade WFH so am not opposed to it -- merely pointing out there are downsides as well as advantages.Pagan2 said:
I don't get london weighting anyway nor do most of the country the number that do is so small as to be largely irrelevantDecrepiterJohnL said:
We shall see. I expect first generation WFH teams will, in general, love it. Their successors, who are no longer paid London salaries for WFH in Ipswich, might be slightly less impressed. I gather America is leading the way here.Pagan2 said:
A lot of companies are moving to 100% working from home judging by the emails I get from agents. Anobazaina loves being in the office is all and wants other people to be there so he isn't on his own.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Trouble is, the 3 out of 10 days at the office, or whatever ratio you choose, will not lead to a reduction in office space requirements if everyone needs to be there at the same time, and if they do not then what is the point of mandating attendance in the first place?Anabobazina said:
Creative jobs need bases, they need offices. Ditto those that want to meet clients. The idea that 100% remote working is a substitute for some in-person days is for the birds. Do 3,4,5 day fortnights in the office, that’s probably fine for most companies. But 100% remote? Nope. Many have stress tested that over the year - and are desperate to see colleagues again.NickPalmer said:
We've done it in our organisation - there are staff working well (in my opinion) who have never met any of us in the flesh. As we're global, that was true even before the pandemic - I've never met most of my US colleagues, and most of them work in different cities and rarely meet each other either. It's hard to think of many office jobs where it really matters, except for the nebulous benefits ascribed to meeting by the water-cooler/tea kettle. In 20 years, I suspect that most office jobs will be entirely distant, and regional differences will diminish as a result, since there will no longer be a reason to live near your job. It's just that most people are used to the office model, so it feels alien now.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
The rule should be that an employer who insists without a demonstrable reason on someone working in the office while the infection is still widespread is behaving badly, but if they can plausibly argue that face-to-face training is needed, fair enough.
My employer currently does - in software engineering they are not unique in that respect.0 -
Disagree on the first part for my job at least. I can just as easily get the information I need over skype, zoom teams etc. If you can't manage without a whiteboard then that is your failing and frankly anyone that wants me in the office even 1 day a week I am from now on assuming is a micro manager. All our directors have noticed that output of code has risen by at least 50% now we don't have to put up with middle management calling sodding uselsess meetings and the work has ended up more true to what customers actually asked for now we don't have middle managers translating what customers actually asked for to what those middle managers think they should have asked for.Anabobazina said:In-person is far better for many tasks; solitary is far better for other tasks. Hybrid working is the way forward.
WFH will be hugely bad I suspect for a lot of middle managers because they will be shown to have added nothing apart from roadblocks2 -
Wrong. I like being with people when the task is better done in person. I like being alone when the task is better done in solitude. It’s horses for courses. I used to WFH 6-7 days a fortnight before this shitshow began and I found that balance about right. WFH ten days a fortnight is dire because creative and collaborative work is far better in person.Pagan2 said:
In person does absolutely bugger all but act as a distraction for most people. You just claim it does because you like being in the office and want other people to be there too. That is the real problem those that want to return to office working have realised that though they want to be in the office and can do so at their choice have realised that most of the office wont be joining them so they are trying to make out we also need to be in the office so they aren't lonely.Anabobazina said:
Creative jobs need bases, they need offices. Ditto those that want to meet clients. The idea that 100% remote working is a substitute for some in-person days is for the birds. Do 3,4,5 day fortnights in the office, that’s probably fine for most companies. But 100% remote? Nope. Many have stress tested that over the year - and are desperate to see colleagues again.NickPalmer said:
We've done it in our organisation - there are staff working well (in my opinion) who have never met any of us in the flesh. As we're global, that was true even before the pandemic - I've never met most of my US colleagues, and most of them work in different cities and rarely meet each other either. It's hard to think of many office jobs where it really matters, except for the nebulous benefits ascribed to meeting by the water-cooler/tea kettle. In 20 years, I suspect that most office jobs will be entirely distant, and regional differences will diminish as a result, since there will no longer be a reason to live near your job. It's just that most people are used to the office model, so it feels alien now.Gallowgate said:
I ask one question: can you effectively train new staff if everyone is working remotely?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I can only speak for my experience of software engineering, employees have lots of choicesGallowgate said:
Depends on the jobCorrectHorseBattery said:In my view a decent employer in 2021 is one that has allows balance, between those that want to work from home and those that want to work from the office. The idea you should be sacked or worse off because you work from home is ridiculous and no good employer should be encouraging such rubbish
The rule should be that an employer who insists without a demonstrable reason on someone working in the office while the infection is still widespread is behaving badly, but if they can plausibly argue that face-to-face training is needed, fair enough.
Get over it, the majority of jobs coming through my email these days from agents are advertising 100% from home because they realise its a selling point.2 -
Can't think of a single task I have done in the last 30 years that I couldn't do as well if I only talked to someone on skype. Care to suggest one that won't get blown apart in seconds for a software engineer.....frankly most tasks could have been done quicker and better if it was just me talking to the customer without getting managers involved.0
-
Three potential problems with direct customer/techie contact are, first, the risk of under-developed social skills, and I can point to a couple of occasions, admittedly 30 years apart, when offence was taken and business lost; secondly, the risk of inadvertently rewriting contracts and making commitments not paid for; and thirdly, just wasting experts' time.Pagan2 said:Can't think of a single task I have done in the last 30 years that I couldn't do as well if I only talked to someone on skype. Care to suggest one that won't get blown apart in seconds for a software engineer.....frankly most tasks could have been done quicker and better if it was just me talking to the customer without getting managers involved.
0 -
Why did they have to change the format of Up All Night on Radio Five Live?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_All_Night_(radio_show)0 -
I remember reading, way back in the 80s, a book written by an ex-Costal chap who was of the opinion that it was a good thing they got Sunderlands and Liberators and not Lancasters, because the Lanc was so cramped and uncomfortable for the crew that a 14-hour patrol would have been unbearable. The Halifax was also apparently quite bad in that respect, and it had a lot more room than the Lancaster.DecrepiterJohnL said:It is a shame Coastal Command never got its hands on the Lancaster because Churchill was too keen on blowing up French turnips and cows in a hugely inaccurate and ineffective campaign of area bombing. The RAF rejected the Liberator as a heavy bomber.
0 -
Rhod Sharp was great....but he stepped down last year.Andy_JS said:Why did they have to change the format of Up All Night on Radio Five Live?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_All_Night_(radio_show)0 -
Rhod Sharp has been posting videos on YouTube recently. He was the original host of Up All Night.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwkkvpJLV2nnjAbXaj-4L2Q0 -
"Vaccine passports 'will last less than a year'
Boris Johnson offers to set a time limit on Covid certificates for theatres, sports events and concerts to answer critics' civil liberties fears"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9431459/Boris-Johnson-offers-set-time-limit-vaccine-certificates-answer-critics-fears.html0 -
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1378081485169827843
"Whether frightening the public was a deliberate – or honest – tactic has become the subject of intense debate, and dozens of psychologists have now accused ministers of using “covert psychological strategies” to manipulate the public’s behaviour.
They are so concerned that the British public has been the subject of a mass experiment in the use of strategies that operate “below their level of awareness” that they have made a formal complaint to their professional body, which will now rule on whether government advisers have been guilty of a breach of ethics.
"One regular Sage attendee said: “The British people have been subjected to an unevaluated psychological experiment without being told that is what’s happening.
“All of this is about trying to steer behaviour in the direction an elite has decided, rather than deciding if it is the right thing or the ethical thing to do.”"0 -
I would be interested to see a header arguing that, particularly how *Corbyn* (as opposed to anything else) did it.justin124 said:
I am no Corbynite but- unlike Attlee and Thatcher - he appears to be the only Opposition Leader who succeeded in moving the Overton Window without achieving office as PM. Johnson and the Tories have - in essence - copied much of his economic policy!isam said:
I am 47 in December and in my lifetime only 3 LOTOs have become PM - Maggie, Blair and Cameron. It is a very rare occurrence. Those three all had something about them that Foot, Kinnock, Hague, IDS, Howard, Miliband, & Corbyn didn’t. I happen to think Sir Keir fits into the latter group more easily, and there is nothing in any data to persuade me otherwise. The eye test and the numbers concur. I post about it a lot because if you only read the headers you’d think the incumbent who leads the polls in almost every measure is the one who is struggling, and I think that is ridiculousstodge said:
Well, it's always good to read such serious, informed, impartial and expert analysis.moonshine said:Keir/Kier Starmer would make a pleasant neighbour. He’d bring his wheelie bin in the very day it’s emptied. He’d smile and say hello if we crossed paths on our morning rounds. I doubt he’d annoy me with gangster rap at 3am or throw used jonnies in my garden, as previous neighbours have done.
But he’s not leader of the neighbourhood watch material. And not that I assume to speak for her, but I don’t imagine my wife getting weak at the knees if she saw him jogging up the hill either. In short, he’s stuffed. Next!
Back in the real world, there's what I think and what I think is going on. From a personal perspective (and I would consider myself centre-left in outlook), Starmer has made a decent start. Cleaning the Augean stables of post-Corbyn Labour is and was never going to be easy and it's still very much a work in progress. How it will work in 2024 is hard to know and as Starmer extends his personal influence and control over policy, we'll see what kind of programme Labour puts forward.
The data so persistently put up by @isam tells a story - it doesn't tell the story. These have been unprecedented times and until now it's been easy to counter criticism of the Government and its actions. To paraphrase the American quiz show Jeopardy if the answer is "Labour would have done exactly the same" you can probably work out the question. I struggle to know what Starmer would have done differently had he been Prime Minister - he'd have hidden behind the "science" as adroitly as Johnson and would no doubt have dolled out the cash as enthusiastically as Sunak.
Only now are we starting to see some flickers of deviation from the general "let's get behind the Government" meme. The crisis is easing and normal service is returning and, to be fair, those speculating on the divide between authoritarian and liberal as the new political divide were doing so pre-Covid as well.
I've never voted Labour because they are an authoritarian, centralising party which believes any problem can be solved by enough State and Government (as you can see, I see Starmer and Johnson as two cheeks of the same posterior in that regard). In essence, therefore, why do we need a Labour Government when we already have one?
To be fair, that's just my serious, informed, partial and inexpert analysis but there you go...
Did he? Really?0 -
I would put money on that is Susan Michie.Andy_JS said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1378081485169827843
"Whether frightening the public was a deliberate – or honest – tactic has become the subject of intense debate, and dozens of psychologists have now accused ministers of using “covert psychological strategies” to manipulate the public’s behaviour.
They are so concerned that the British public has been the subject of a mass experiment in the use of strategies that operate “below their level of awareness” that they have made a formal complaint to their professional body, which will now rule on whether government advisers have been guilty of a breach of ethics.
"One regular Sage attendee said: “The British people have been subjected to an unevaluated psychological experiment without being told that is what’s happening.
“All of this is about trying to steer behaviour in the direction an elite has decided, rather than deciding if it is the right thing or the ethical thing to do.”"0 -
I missed the flag story.
The reactions to the suggestion that we do something similar to Sweden are quite funny.0 -
Whoever it is, that should be the end of their involvement with SAGE. You can't both advise the government and then try to coerce it if your advice is not adopted. (Also, if they think that this merits a professional ethics complaint, wait until they see an election campaign. Or indeed an advertising campaign.)FrancisUrquhart said:
I would put money on that is Susan Michie.Andy_JS said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1378081485169827843
"Whether frightening the public was a deliberate – or honest – tactic has become the subject of intense debate, and dozens of psychologists have now accused ministers of using “covert psychological strategies” to manipulate the public’s behaviour.
They are so concerned that the British public has been the subject of a mass experiment in the use of strategies that operate “below their level of awareness” that they have made a formal complaint to their professional body, which will now rule on whether government advisers have been guilty of a breach of ethics.
"One regular Sage attendee said: “The British people have been subjected to an unevaluated psychological experiment without being told that is what’s happening.
“All of this is about trying to steer behaviour in the direction an elite has decided, rather than deciding if it is the right thing or the ethical thing to do.”"
--AS0 -
Then, unless something dramatic changes - by which I mean the entirety of the DfE, OFQUAL, OFSTED and the QCA are stood against a wall and not replaced - you’re betting on him being gone in the next twelve to eighteen months.turbotubbs said:
I hope and believe your career will outlive his by some way.ydoethur said:
Well, nobody is proposing that we get anyone to salute photos of the egregious mop head.justin124 said:
Nothing too sinister then!ydoethur said:
I think they did, as pretty much everyone had to if they didn’t want the SA to pay them unwelcome attention.justin124 said:
Did schools in 1930s Germany have to fly the swastika?RobD said:
Do we know who this Tory MP is? The fact they aren't named in the report suggest they are a nobody (i.e.. "Senior Tory").CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1378055338587529219
Bet we hear crickets from the usual suspects
But the main act of Nazi propaganda in schools was a large photo of Hitler in every classroom to which children would give a Nazi salute at the start of the day.
Not yet, anyway.
And hopefully not during my career in teaching.0 -
New Thread
0
This discussion has been closed.