One Woman’s Perspective – politicalbetting.com

Taz said:

Pagan2 said:

Taz said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

Ahem: Anne Cryer MP, various female social workers and female police officers (Maggie Oliver whistle blew over Rochdale) did raise the issue. And were shut down. By male MPs and senior male police officers, as it happens.

Anne Cryer was treated dreadfully by, mostly,male, colleagues and accused of being a racist and BNP enabler. A similar thing happened to Sarah Chanpion.

This simply allowed the far right to own the issue as mainstream politicians were too scared to tackle it. It’s shameful. Girls were raped and molested on an industrial scale and many in positions of peer main concern were the optics not the victims. One victim was even arrested for abusing in the street one of her abusers. It’s insane.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/ann-cryer-and-fight-expose-child-grooming-gangs-yorkshire-1751079

Simply put, the victims were lower down the "victim hierarchy" than the perpetrators. I experienced the same when reporting my girlfriend being spat on and called a white whore in the street over several occasions, the police didn't want to know.

If they had misgendered her on Twitter you’d have had a better chance of action from them.

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/basialcummings/status/1370726312432836609

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

bigjohnowls said:

From Europe Elects

Germany: Rhineland-Palatinate regional election today

8.14 PM CET Infratest dimap seat projection

SPD-S&D: 40 (+1)
CDU-EPP: 29 (-6)
AfD-ID: 10 (-4)
GRÜNE-Greens/EFA: 9 (+3)
FW-RE: 7 (+7)
FDP-RE: 6 (-1)

+/- vs. 2016 final result

Note: Majority at 51

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

TheScreamingEagles said:

I remember the Boris Johnson fanboys denied this.

https://twitter.com/gordonrayner/status/1371194415050588160

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

The Sunday Times carries an interesting article about the German Greens.

Essentially, they have adopted a more pro-business, economically liberal approach (stripping off CDU voters) whilst also maintaining their counter-cultural/radical vibe too, and thus stripping off SDP, so they get enough votes to win.

A bit of a textbook case of "AND" politics; riding two horses at once.

That lasts until you get into power, look at what happened to the Lib Dems here. They had to choose which policies to push and which to give up and voters haven't forgiven them for that. Even Boris is threading a very small needle with keeping blue wallers and shire Tories in the same coalition. He's waved goodbye to fiscally dry, social liberals like myself but we were never a huge part of the voting coalition and we're unlikely to vote Labour so it's not very damaging. How he will ride the working class Tory horse and keep the shire Tories happy will be interesting to see if Labour doesn't fall into any major trap that allows Boris to get the leave band back together.

Cyclefree said:

Pagan2 said:

To be controversial (for a change )

The header calls for men to change, I do wonder however women shouldn't also look at themselves and think about their behaviour. Now maybe I am unusual in this but I have known many women ditch boyfriends who were steady and respectful and stable for those that were shall we say less respectful. The habitual cheats and regularly unemployed and worse because apparently "well bob was sort of boring".

I don't think its just me because girls like a bad boy has become somewhat of a cliche and certainly seen it happen. The bad boy however is also quite often the sort railed against in this thread.

No before you say so not claiming its all womens fault by any means just that there is also as well as men behaving badly women rewarding them almost for being like that

Yes - the number of women who voted for Trump despite his appalling behaviour and attitudes is evidence that women too can admire and reinforce bad behaviour. If we want better behaviour we all need to play our part.

Pagan2 said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

Yes but ultimately the best looking 10% of men cannot marry 80% of women can they? So while the 10% can play the field more even they will eventually settle down with the top 10% of women looks wise, leaving the remaining 90% of women for the remaining 90% of men

Apart from you still live in the 12 century, barely less than half the population for the uk are married in the 21st century (50.4%) and its declining for all age groupd under 70

maaarsh said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

Yes but ultimately the best looking 10% of men cannot marry 80% of women can they? So while the 10% can play the field more even they will eventually settle down with the top 10% of women looks wise, leaving the remaining 90% of women for the remaining 90% of men

Nope, there's a matching set of celibate women - women won't marry down and for an increasing number of middle class women with good jobs it means they end up living their 'best lives' alone.

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

alex_ said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Cyclefree said:

Pagan2 said:

To be controversial (for a change )

The header calls for men to change, I do wonder however women shouldn't also look at themselves and think about their behaviour. Now maybe I am unusual in this but I have known many women ditch boyfriends who were steady and respectful and stable for those that were shall we say less respectful. The habitual cheats and regularly unemployed and worse because apparently "well bob was sort of boring".

I don't think its just me because girls like a bad boy has become somewhat of a cliche and certainly seen it happen. The bad boy however is also quite often the sort railed against in this thread.

No before you say so not claiming its all womens fault by any means just that there is also as well as men behaving badly women rewarding them almost for being like that

Yes - the number of women who voted for Trump despite his appalling behaviour and attitudes is evidence that women too can admire and reinforce bad behaviour. If we want better behaviour we all need to play our part.

Methinks majority of women who voted for Trumpsky, did so DESPITE his sexual bad behavior NOT because of it.

Certainly true for (most) evangelical Christina church ladies who voted for the swine.

A huge percentage of Trump supporters simply don't believe anything said about him. So conditioned are they against "the MSM", and so deep into the cult. Even when he damn near confirms it with his own words.

Pagan2 said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

It is not just the incels losing out it is fair to note either, a lot of the top 5% now find they can have a different girl most nights and woman are increasingly opting to hold out for them, the bottom 5% which are the incels are getting no more than they ever did and the mid 90% of nice guys is getting a lower share

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

alex_ said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Cyclefree said:

Pagan2 said:

To be controversial (for a change )

The header calls for men to change, I do wonder however women shouldn't also look at themselves and think about their behaviour. Now maybe I am unusual in this but I have known many women ditch boyfriends who were steady and respectful and stable for those that were shall we say less respectful. The habitual cheats and regularly unemployed and worse because apparently "well bob was sort of boring".

I don't think its just me because girls like a bad boy has become somewhat of a cliche and certainly seen it happen. The bad boy however is also quite often the sort railed against in this thread.

No before you say so not claiming its all womens fault by any means just that there is also as well as men behaving badly women rewarding them almost for being like that

Yes - the number of women who voted for Trump despite his appalling behaviour and attitudes is evidence that women too can admire and reinforce bad behaviour. If we want better behaviour we all need to play our part.

Methinks majority of women who voted for Trumpsky, did so DESPITE his sexual bad behavior NOT because of it.

Certainly true for (most) evangelical Christina church ladies who voted for the swine.

A huge percentage of Trump supporters simply don't believe anything said about him. So conditioned are they against "the MSM", and so deep into the cult. Even when he damn near confirms it with his own words.

maaarsh said:

HYUFD said:

maaarsh said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

Yes but ultimately the best looking 10% of men cannot marry 80% of women can they? So while the 10% can play the field more even they will eventually settle down with the top 10% of women looks wise, leaving the remaining 90% of women for the remaining 90% of men

Nope, there's a matching set of celibate women - women won't marry down and for an increasing number of middle class women with good jobs it means they end up living their 'best lives' alone.

Well that is their own fault then if they are so fussy

In crude terms, men are more likely to select for physical attractiveness, and women are more likely to select for status.

Worked absolutely fine when men were the breadwinners. Now we have a more equal jobs market, it leads to quite the quandry for successful, but less physically attractive women.

williamglenn said:

Another 26,343 cases in France.

DougSeal said:

AnneJGP said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Leon said:

RobD said:

Leon said:

Floater said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371164112370163719

So AZ actually REDUCES the chance of blood clots. It is positively therapeutic. Another genius move by our European friends and neighbours.

When the tragic history of Covid-19 is written, the chapter on the European Reaction to the Vaccines will at least provide some surreal comic relief. I wonder if people will believe it

They've quite literally gone insane.

It’s the Irish reaction that is most baffling, to me, at the moment (with many rivals). Suspending AZ for ‘one week’. Why? What possible rationale do they have? What do they expect to happen in that week??

Politico might surmise, that the Micks are wanting to show solidarity with the EU, without unduly pissing off the Brits?

Medico might think (perhaps?) that they (and rest of them) are waiting for some more scientific evidence?

And could truth (at least small-t) be somewhere in between?

They have to be seen to be taking the reports (or maybe think they have to be seen to be) seriously because just ignoring them would perhaps make matters worse. I don’t know. They will get there in the end. If we can put a lid on this thing by July and hunker down on our own island for 12 months nor so while they catch up that’s fine by me. Ireland is a special case given the CTA but, if reports are to be believed, we are soon to be vaccinating the population equivalent of the entire island of Ireland every 10 days. That will not go unnoticed over there.

If we just keep supplying NI with vaccines once the NI population is dealt with, the vaccination centres can simply go on jabbing anyone who cares to cross the border and show up, surely.

It’s a long way from Cork to Belfast

maaarsh said:

HYUFD said:

maaarsh said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

Yes but ultimately the best looking 10% of men cannot marry 80% of women can they? So while the 10% can play the field more even they will eventually settle down with the top 10% of women looks wise, leaving the remaining 90% of women for the remaining 90% of men

Nope, there's a matching set of celibate women - women won't marry down and for an increasing number of middle class women with good jobs it means they end up living their 'best lives' alone.

Well that is their own fault then if they are so fussy

In crude terms, men are more likely to select for physical attractiveness, and women are more likely to select for status.

Worked absolutely fine when men were the breadwinners. Now we have a more equal jobs market, it leads to quite the quandry for successful, but less physically attractive women.

alex_ said:

Time_to_Leave said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

I do feel sorry for kids today. Getting to know women in the real world, spending time getting drunk with them (initially in larger groups), and then eventually falling into a consensual relationship was my main dating technique. Closely followed by “sod it the worst she can say is no” leading to a lot of first dates. None of that quote works if you live through the filter of the internet.

Not even that given how far the acceptable boundaries seem to have shifted. We've moved a long way in a very short space of time when the only absolutely hard and fast rule was to not engage in sex without clear consent.

HYUFD said:

maaarsh said:

HYUFD said:

maaarsh said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

Yes but ultimately the best looking 10% of men cannot marry 80% of women can they? So while the 10% can play the field more even they will eventually settle down with the top 10% of women looks wise, leaving the remaining 90% of women for the remaining 90% of men

Nope, there's a matching set of celibate women - women won't marry down and for an increasing number of middle class women with good jobs it means they end up living their 'best lives' alone.

Well that is their own fault then if they are so fussy

In crude terms, men are more likely to select for physical attractiveness, and women are more likely to select for status.

Worked absolutely fine when men were the breadwinners. Now we have a more equal jobs market, it leads to quite the quandry for successful, but less physically attractive women.

Miranda on Sex in the City was a high flying lawyer who married working class Steve and it worked out fine

Cyclefree said:

Pagan2 said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

It is not just the incels losing out it is fair to note either, a lot of the top 5% now find they can have a different girl most nights and woman are increasingly opting to hold out for them, the bottom 5% which are the incels are getting no more than they ever did and the mid 90% of nice guys is getting a lower share

It's almost as if men think of women as booty to be shared out among them.

Leon said:

Pagan2 said:

alex_ said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Cyclefree said:

Pagan2 said:

To be controversial (for a change )

The header calls for men to change, I do wonder however women shouldn't also look at themselves and think about their behaviour. Now maybe I am unusual in this but I have known many women ditch boyfriends who were steady and respectful and stable for those that were shall we say less respectful. The habitual cheats and regularly unemployed and worse because apparently "well bob was sort of boring".

I don't think its just me because girls like a bad boy has become somewhat of a cliche and certainly seen it happen. The bad boy however is also quite often the sort railed against in this thread.

No before you say so not claiming its all womens fault by any means just that there is also as well as men behaving badly women rewarding them almost for being like that

Yes - the number of women who voted for Trump despite his appalling behaviour and attitudes is evidence that women too can admire and reinforce bad behaviour. If we want better behaviour we all need to play our part.

Methinks majority of women who voted for Trumpsky, did so DESPITE his sexual bad behavior NOT because of it.

Certainly true for (most) evangelical Christina church ladies who voted for the swine.

A huge percentage of Trump supporters simply don't believe anything said about him. So conditioned are they against "the MSM", and so deep into the cult. Even when he damn near confirms it with his own words.

The worst thing I ever got called by a woman was "cute but scary" I still to this day have no idea how to work out what that meant

Definite compliment. Cherish it

Pagan2 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

Maybe, but don't the stats show that 80-90% of people get married?

So, most men do find a woman?

Admittedly, this might mean just 1-2 sexual partners, when the top 10% get 30-50 each, and those they are marrying aren't necessarily their ideal preferred partner, but it's not like 90% of men are incels on the rampage.

Not sure where you get 90%

Quote
Patterns of marital status in England and Wales have changed over time. In 2018, just over half of the population (50.5%) in England and Wales were married. The second-largest proportion was the single (never married or civil-partnered) population at 35.0%, followed by divorced at 8.0%, widowed at 6.4% and civil partnered at 0.2%.

Source
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/populationestimatesbymaritalstatusandlivingarrangements/2018#:~:text=In 2018, just over half,and civil partnered at 0.2%.

As far as I understand that 35% is a growing figure

alex_ said:

HYUFD said:

maaarsh said:

HYUFD said:

maaarsh said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

Yes but ultimately the best looking 10% of men cannot marry 80% of women can they? So while the 10% can play the field more even they will eventually settle down with the top 10% of women looks wise, leaving the remaining 90% of women for the remaining 90% of men

Nope, there's a matching set of celibate women - women won't marry down and for an increasing number of middle class women with good jobs it means they end up living their 'best lives' alone.

Well that is their own fault then if they are so fussy

In crude terms, men are more likely to select for physical attractiveness, and women are more likely to select for status.

Worked absolutely fine when men were the breadwinners. Now we have a more equal jobs market, it leads to quite the quandry for successful, but less physically attractive women.

Miranda on Sex in the City was a high flying lawyer who married working class Steve and it worked out fine

Lol. There's anecdotal evidence and there's anecdotal evidence from a fictional TV series!

Leon said:

alex_ said:

Time_to_Leave said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

I do feel sorry for kids today. Getting to know women in the real world, spending time getting drunk with them (initially in larger groups), and then eventually falling into a consensual relationship was my main dating technique. Closely followed by “sod it the worst she can say is no” leading to a lot of first dates. None of that quote works if you live through the filter of the internet.

Not even that given how far the acceptable boundaries seem to have shifted. We've moved a long way in a very short space of time when the only absolutely hard and fast rule was to not engage in sex without clear consent.

Sex on the first date is now the norm. A pretty huge change from my youth, when it was third date. And a vast gulf from 150 years ago, when you had to wait until you were nearly dead

Pagan2 said:

Cyclefree said:

Pagan2 said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

It is not just the incels losing out it is fair to note either, a lot of the top 5% now find they can have a different girl most nights and woman are increasingly opting to hold out for them, the bottom 5% which are the incels are getting no more than they ever did and the mid 90% of nice guys is getting a lower share

It's almost as if men think of women as booty to be shared out among them.

I wasn't implying that, I meant more women are holding out for the perfect one rather than 50 years ago where they would settle for a good one.

There is a reason the phrase "nice guys finish last" came about

Cyclefree said:

Pagan2 said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

It is not just the incels losing out it is fair to note either, a lot of the top 5% now find they can have a different girl most nights and woman are increasingly opting to hold out for them, the bottom 5% which are the incels are getting no more than they ever did and the mid 90% of nice guys is getting a lower share

It's almost as if some (many?) men think of women as booty to be shared out among them.

Leon said:

alex_ said:

Time_to_Leave said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

I do feel sorry for kids today. Getting to know women in the real world, spending time getting drunk with them (initially in larger groups), and then eventually falling into a consensual relationship was my main dating technique. Closely followed by “sod it the worst she can say is no” leading to a lot of first dates. None of that quote works if you live through the filter of the internet.

Not even that given how far the acceptable boundaries seem to have shifted. We've moved a long way in a very short space of time when the only absolutely hard and fast rule was to not engage in sex without clear consent.

Sex on the first date is now the norm. A pretty huge change from my youth, when it was third date. And a vast gulf from 150 years ago, when you had to wait until you were nearly dead

Foxy said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

Exactly. They have agency, and are voluntary celibate rather than involuntary.

It really isn't that hard to be nice to women. Sure, you might land in the friendzone, but that is a step in the right direction.

They don’t have agency. The apps destroy it. If a girl always swipes left it doesn’t matter how witty or friendly you are

You clearly don’t understand the basics of this change, I suggest you do some reading. Martha Gill - a journalist - has written several excellent pieces on this, and she’s crunched the numbers. There is also a growing body of social studies

It may well surprise you, but there are other ways of meeting women than Tinder.

While I haven't been on the pull for 35 years, neither of my boys has been short of girl friends and girlfriends, met through friends or shared interests. Indeed, with his interest in theatre and art, Fox Jr2 is very popular with the girls.

Pagan2 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

Maybe, but don't the stats show that 80-90% of people get married?

So, most men do find a woman?

Admittedly, this might mean just 1-2 sexual partners, when the top 10% get 30-50 each, and those they are marrying aren't necessarily their ideal preferred partner, but it's not like 90% of men are incels on the rampage.

Not sure where you get 90%

Quote
Patterns of marital status in England and Wales have changed over time. In 2018, just over half of the population (50.5%) in England and Wales were married. The second-largest proportion was the single (never married or civil-partnered) population at 35.0%, followed by divorced at 8.0%, widowed at 6.4% and civil partnered at 0.2%.

Source
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/populationestimatesbymaritalstatusandlivingarrangements/2018#:~:text=In 2018, just over half,and civil partnered at 0.2%.

As far as I understand that 35% is a growing figure

Cyclefree said:

Pagan2 said:

Cyclefree said:

Pagan2 said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

It is not just the incels losing out it is fair to note either, a lot of the top 5% now find they can have a different girl most nights and woman are increasingly opting to hold out for them, the bottom 5% which are the incels are getting no more than they ever did and the mid 90% of nice guys is getting a lower share

It's almost as if men think of women as booty to be shared out among them.

I wasn't implying that, I meant more women are holding out for the perfect one rather than 50 years ago where they would settle for a good one.

There is a reason the phrase "nice guys finish last" came about

If women held out for the perfect one, the human race would have died out a long time ago.

I am, it is true, not au fait with current dating. I do have a daughter who is. My impression is that what women want is what women have always wanted: love, commitment, kindness, fun and, to put it at its mildest, not being a slob or an arsehole.

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Pagan2 said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

It is not just the incels losing out it is fair to note either, a lot of the top 5% now find they can have a different girl most nights and woman are increasingly opting to hold out for them, the bottom 5% which are the incels are getting no more than they ever did and the mid 90% of nice guys is getting a lower share

It's almost as if some (many?) men think of women as booty to be shared out among them.

Some incels seriously make that argument, and it’s not *quite* as outrageous as it sounds

Wait! I know, I know, but bear with me

The argument goes like this: in modern, liberal western societies, we make sure no one goes completely without food. Or shelter. Or healthcare. Even if it’s their own damn fault, we don’t let anyone starve to death

And yet we happily let men (and it is nearly all men) go completely without sex, which - the incels argue - is just as cruel, and just as emotionally damaging as starvation or homelessness.

I can see their logic, however bitterly and insanely they express it. Sex is fundamental to human happiness, just like decent food and a bed.

Tho how you develop universal credit for sex I dunno. Some say the government should pay sex workers to gratify incels.

In the end, as I say, sex bots will be the answer. Eventually

Time_to_Leave said:

Pagan2 said:

Time_to_Leave said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

I do feel sorry for kids today. Getting to know women in the real world, spending time getting drunk with them (initially in larger groups), and then eventually falling into a consensual relationship was my main dating technique. Closely followed by “sod it the worst she can say is no” leading to a lot of first dates. None of that quote works if you live through the filter of the internet.

The first girl I lived with I met by landing on top of her after falling of an upright piano, she didn't seem in a hurry to get out from under me so I kissed her....my way was quicker

Your efficiency is to be admired.

Pulpstar said:

Leon said:

alex_ said:

Time_to_Leave said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

I do feel sorry for kids today. Getting to know women in the real world, spending time getting drunk with them (initially in larger groups), and then eventually falling into a consensual relationship was my main dating technique. Closely followed by “sod it the worst she can say is no” leading to a lot of first dates. None of that quote works if you live through the filter of the internet.

Not even that given how far the acceptable boundaries seem to have shifted. We've moved a long way in a very short space of time when the only absolutely hard and fast rule was to not engage in sex without clear consent.

Sex on the first date is now the norm. A pretty huge change from my youth, when it was third date. And a vast gulf from 150 years ago, when you had to wait until you were nearly dead

When do people swap nude photos in a relationship these days ? I constantly read all these articles about how "my picture ended up on site xyz" and am thinking err...

Leon said:

Pulpstar said:

Leon said:

alex_ said:

Time_to_Leave said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

I do feel sorry for kids today. Getting to know women in the real world, spending time getting drunk with them (initially in larger groups), and then eventually falling into a consensual relationship was my main dating technique. Closely followed by “sod it the worst she can say is no” leading to a lot of first dates. None of that quote works if you live through the filter of the internet.

Not even that given how far the acceptable boundaries seem to have shifted. We've moved a long way in a very short space of time when the only absolutely hard and fast rule was to not engage in sex without clear consent.

Sex on the first date is now the norm. A pretty huge change from my youth, when it was third date. And a vast gulf from 150 years ago, when you had to wait until you were nearly dead

When do people swap nude photos in a relationship these days ? I constantly read all these articles about how "my picture ended up on site xyz" and am thinking err...

Some do it within hours of first meeting (online). Even before the first physical date. It seems crazy dangerous to me, especially the girls - it is usually girls sexting men - but that’s how it goes these days

Casino_Royale said:

Confession: I read the very unWoke books "The Game", "The Mystery Method", and "Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You" in my 20s.

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Pagan2 said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Been out this afternoon walking in the rain so just catching up on this thread.

Once again to join with other contributors, an excellent piece and nothing I can disagree with in there.

I think the key point to be understood is education of boys and young men. Never has Aristotle's aphorism been more true than in the treatment of women.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.

There certainly seem to be a lot of emotionally stunted blokes forever frozen at the age of seven on twitter.

Not just on twitter.

I have mused on @Cyclefree header whilst pottering in the garden. The problem seems intractable, and while better education and police who are competent are clearly good things, they do have a rather apple pie appeal. Who doesn't favour these things?

The problem is men, and while only a minority behave physically violently, it is a big problem for women. While fear of random street violence is legitimate in men, the threat is violence or robbery rather than sexual assault, so of a different order.

There is a lot of male anger out there, and part of that is that for many men anger is the only permissable emotional outlet. It is the goto for any stress or difficulty. The threat to status from female equality and emancipation brings it to the fore.

I work in a majority female workplace, and cannot recall seeing any misogyny, but at a recent pre-pandemic team day the subject #metoo came up.

I was the only male at a lunchtable with a half dozen female colleagues aged from mid twenties to mid fifties. I asked them to tell me of their #metoo stories. Everyone of them had several, mostly inappropriate behaviour from male patients. Indeed they had devised a way of marking notes for certain patients to be never be seen without a witness.

Perhaps the most important thing for men to do is to listen to the women in their lives and workplace, without interrupting or arguing. These experiences are very common, only yesterday Mrs Foxy told me of an incident where a van driver cut her up, blocked the road in front of her, got out and pounded on her car window swearing at her and accusing her of dangerous driving. These incidents are so common that all women seem able to tell similar tales. So my advice to men is to raise the issue, and listen, just listen.

It would be nice if these angry metropolitan women had marched in the name of the THOUSANDS of girls systematically groomed, raped, abused and sometimes killed - with the connivance of police and politicians - across the north and Midlands in the last 30 years, but maybe I am over-optimistic about human nature.

On your larger point, I agree, but I fear misogyny and male violence - clearly very real problems - are likely to get WORSE before they get better. Why? Involuntary celibacy. Incels. More and more young men are getting less and less sex, for various reasons - apps like Tinder, inequality, declining employment prospects for young men, and so on.

Young men deprived of sex quite quickly turn to violence. See the rise of Islamism in sexually suppressive societies.

Eventually this problem will probably be solved by technology. Sex bots. GPT3 with fake boobs.

But we could be in for a rocky decade or three before then. It’s a major issue, not really acknowledged

Except.

Plenty of those sleazeballs are in high status roles, like policemen, bankers or politicians. They have money and partners.

They just get greedy; they assume that because they are bursting with spunk (to take a phrase I must have picked up from someone famous) they can take without asking. Biologically, that's what males do, but civilisation is turning away from pure biological urges, because they lead to nasty, brutish and short lives.

But some men don't bother with that. Because they're alphas, dontchaknow?

And yet we ARE making progress there. After MeToo. Powerful men are much less likely to abuse that power, sexually, because society is much less tolerant. That’s good.

It’s the powerLESS men we should be worried about. The incels. They are already one of the biggest terror threats in the USA

They could try being nice to women. Plenty of women would welcome funny kind men who make them feel good.

They don’t tho. You’re being naive. Social media (and other changes) really have altered dating fundamentally. Read the links I posted, and others. There’s plenty of material out there. 80% of women compete for 10% of men.

What has happened in many other human endeavors - from the arts to football teams to banking - is now happening to sex. A lucky few at the top do incredibly well and get all the money and glory. A huge chunk - the bottom half of the pyramid - get little or nothing.

Trouble is, this is sex, not children’s fiction. So it has a grave potential to destabilize

It is not just the incels losing out it is fair to note either, a lot of the top 5% now find they can have a different girl most nights and woman are increasingly opting to hold out for them, the bottom 5% which are the incels are getting no more than they ever did and the mid 90% of nice guys is getting a lower share

Yes, absolutely right. If you’re in that top 10% of men getting all the attention, why settle down with one woman? You can have endless sexual variety into your 40s. A male fantasy come true

This makes the most-desired men more commitment-phobic, which makes the women even more paranoid and yielding, and so the vicious cycle tightens

The only choice for the beta minus men is to get rich. Easier said than done, of course

Confession: I read the very unWoke books "The Game", "The Mystery Method", and "Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You" in my 20s.

They WORKED.

I'd previously only had two relationships. After reading these, I had a far higher number (which I will not disclose) in the space of less than two years. I had a number of successful relationships (admittedly, all short-lived but that was partly through choice as I was a bit of a kamikaze) with extremely intelligent and beautiful young women. Amazing. And they are not supposed to "work", because they are all about demonstrating higher social value and the fact you don't care about the rules; you're fun, exciting and a risk-taker.

Did I behave slightly selfishly and greedily? Yes. But, then, I met my wife, possibly through lessons and skills learned through this, calmed down and it all changed. But, the memories.

Oh, the memories.