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One Woman’s Perspective – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,916
edited March 2021 in General
One Woman’s Perspective – politicalbetting.com

The Duchess of Cambridge was seen at a memorial site for Sarah Everard on Clapham Common in south London.Latest here: https://t.co/ScCaOQw8eF pic.twitter.com/pCYf0H8sil

Read the full story here

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Comments

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    MattWMattW Posts: 20,470
    edited March 2021
    1st?

    Good piece, @Cycefree.

    Off-topic:

    Has it been noted that we are now over 25 million doses in the public stats?

    25.13 million to be precise-ish.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    Just an excellent piece. Hard to disagree with any of it.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170
    I will set aside a month next year to read this piece.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    edited March 2021
    I am really hoping this is another bad wicket. So many mis-hits from England. Its really kept the score down.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,456
    Didn't play fair my arse. But I suspect this is a view widely held in the EU, despite having no basis in reality.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170
    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21
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    MattWMattW Posts: 20,470
    I admire the slightly subversive mention of Erin Pizzey :smile: . Lived in Chiswick for a few years.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,456
    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Members of the royal family (active or not) in charge in Washington?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 60,111
    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DavidL said:
    You might think that - I might think that - but it's clear he represents views held by some in the Commission and the European Parliament. Which he frequently quotes.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170
    He’s so reliably and risibly crazy and partisan I am seriously beginning to wonder if he’s a parody. Or he’s having a laugh by trolling everyone
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    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    I'd expect the Titles of Nobility Amendment to be ratified if she thought about running.
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    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Members of the royal family (active or not) in charge in Washington?
    Archie to be concurrently Monarch of the UK and President of the United States in about 50 years?

    (I'm sure they'll ease the born in the USA requirement to be POTUS soon enough.)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,015
    DavidL said:

    For me, the key is respect. Young men must to taught to respect women and women must be taught to respect themselves. Women with self respect don't tolerate abuse or disrespect. They know that they are entitled to better. Those lacking that self respect become victims.

    But men who respect women can also help to build that self respect. And they do. It's a virtuous circle that needs to be encouraged.

    Sending nude pictures to each other seems to be the fashion these days amongst the youth with the inevitable results when relationships go sour.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223
    Best header you've ever done.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?
    If this woman had an iota of political skill would they really be where they are right now?
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,109
    edited March 2021
    An absolutely excellent header, Cyclefree. I agree with every word.

    The sad thing is that you could have written this at any stage in my (quite long) adult life, and it would have been spot on. Sadly, progress is very slow, and going from some of the comments on here and elsewhere quite a lot of men are not yet up for the necessary change in behaviour and attitudes.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Leon said:

    I will set aside a month next year to read this piece.

    Why, thank you for proving my point, and so early on in the comments!

    I shall now start writing my next piece so that I can take up another month of your valuable time.

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,032
    edited March 2021
    RobD said:

    Didn't play fair my arse. But I suspect this is a view widely held in the EU, despite having no basis in reality.
    Not so much the EU bringing a knife to a gunfight as them packing a pastrami sub....

    And so much grief was offered up by so many in mourning our departure from this clown troupe, 2016-2021......
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Regular bookmakers will be too chicken to take bets on Meghan. But fellow PBers, as a public service I will generously offer odds of 5,000-1 on her becoming President of the United States in 2024.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    RE: vaccines. You know what's even more stupid about all these AZ suspensions. That EVEN if, after detailed analysis, it was concluded that there was a small potential risk/causal link between the vaccine and blood clots then the likely outcome would be that the programme would be restarted... with an additional potential side effect added of possibility of blood clots! It is extremely unlikely (somebody more knowledgeable correct me if i'm wrong) that the outcome would be the banning of the vaccine. Because the rewards would clearly be assessed as outweighing the risks. There are other medical products that list blood clots as theoretical possible side effects in a minute number of cases (somebody suggested the morning after pill?).

    It just doing the anti-vaxxers work and undermining confidence piece by piece (which is the REAL danger to comprehensive vaccine rollout). So stupid and sad. The irony is that AZ is using a proven technology. The real experiment going on is Pfizer/Moderna.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,032
    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    You've been used, lad....
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    MattWMattW Posts: 20,470
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    For me, the key is respect. Young men must to taught to respect women and women must be taught to respect themselves. Women with self respect don't tolerate abuse or disrespect. They know that they are entitled to better. Those lacking that self respect become victims.

    But men who respect women can also help to build that self respect. And they do. It's a virtuous circle that needs to be encouraged.

    Sending nude pictures to each other seems to be the fashion these days amongst the youth with the inevitable results when relationships go sour.
    It's not so long since we had the effwits from the Nottinghamshite Constabulary trolling their way round schools telling such young people that they would be treated as sex offenders.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/schoolgirl-given-police-caution-after-3896649

    schoolgirl has been handed a police caution after ''sexting'' a topless picture of herself to her boyfriend.

    Sending the picture using her mobile phone, the teenager's boyfriend then forwarded the image on to his friends after the young couple split.

    The pair both received a police caution and were investigated after being deemed to have distributed an indecent image of a child.

    The case emerged as Nottinghamshire Police issued a warning to other youngsters about the dangers of exchanging explicit pictures.


    https://nottstv.com/nottinghamshire-police-say-school-pupil-sexting-still-daily-problem/

    Police say they still have ‘grave concerns’ over reports of child ‘sexting’ happening daily in Nottinghamshire after sending warning letters to secondary schools.
    The letters were designed to prevent pupils sending explicit pictures to each other on social media, online or through mobiles.

    In some cases the messages could be classed as sex offences and lead to children ending up in court.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?
    Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Regular bookmakers will be too chicken to take bets on Meghan. But fellow PBers, as a public service I will generously offer odds of 5,000-1 on her becoming President of the United States in 2024.
    Shadsy is offering 100/1

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/event/politics/international/us-elections/2024-us-presidential-election/229683570/all-markets
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    Ugh, this is why I could never be a Labour voter.

    https://twitter.com/GroomB/status/1370837652086394882
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,763
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?
    Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.
    She could run on a promise to establish a hereditary monarchy, with Archie being the next in line.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    I'd expect the Titles of Nobility Amendment to be ratified if she thought about running.
    It requires ratification by another 26 States, so I don't think that's very likely.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 20,470
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?
    Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.
    That sounds chicken and egg.

    Have any members of the UK nobility ever been President before?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,090
    Thought-provoking piece.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Regular bookmakers will be too chicken to take bets on Meghan. But fellow PBers, as a public service I will generously offer odds of 5,000-1 on her becoming President of the United States in 2024.
    Shadsy is offering 100/1

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/event/politics/international/us-elections/2024-us-presidential-election/229683570/all-markets
    He's more generous than me. Read the terms of my offer closely.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 79,278

    Back to whiney Dave:

    twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1371042507153346561?s=20
    twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1371043596057608194?s=20

    Comical Ali has called, he says even he thinks his attempted spin might be other egging it...
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,884
    ISTR France prevented export of UK orders of PPE when they needed it badly themselves.

    Good afternoon, everybody.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300
    alex_ said:

    RE: vaccines. You know what's even more stupid about all these AZ suspensions. That EVEN if, after detailed analysis, it was concluded that there was a small potential risk/causal link between the vaccine and blood clots then the likely outcome would be that the programme would be restarted... with an additional potential side effect added of possibility of blood clots! It is extremely unlikely (somebody more knowledgeable correct me if i'm wrong) that the outcome would be the banning of the vaccine. Because the rewards would clearly be assessed as outweighing the risks. There are other medical products that list blood clots as theoretical possible side effects in a minute number of cases (somebody suggested the morning after pill?).

    It just doing the anti-vaxxers work and undermining confidence piece by piece (which is the REAL danger to comprehensive vaccine rollout). So stupid and sad. The irony is that AZ is using a proven technology. The real experiment going on is Pfizer/Moderna.

    (And CureVac)
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Regular bookmakers will be too chicken to take bets on Meghan. But fellow PBers, as a public service I will generously offer odds of 5,000-1 on her becoming President of the United States in 2024.
    I'll take a tenner at that please.

    Or is it a 31p stake limit deal.
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,341
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Members of the royal family (active or not) in charge in Washington?
    Reunification to follow?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,090
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    For me, the key is respect. Young men must to taught to respect women and women must be taught to respect themselves. Women with self respect don't tolerate abuse or disrespect. They know that they are entitled to better. Those lacking that self respect become victims.

    But men who respect women can also help to build that self respect. And they do. It's a virtuous circle that needs to be encouraged.

    Sending nude pictures to each other seems to be the fashion these days amongst the youth with the inevitable results when relationships go sour.
    I don't understand it.

    In some respects modern teenage behaviour is worse, not better, than when I was that age.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,190
    Vroom, vroom, vroom

    I think it's a Ustinov story about Jackie Stewart about him making engine noises whilst watching, but I guess I applies to Murray Walker too. Motor sport will not be the same.

    A great man.

    PS. Actually looks a bit like @MikeSmithson! @rcs1000 - does OGH make political noises when watching elections?
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,675
    Truly excellent post by Cyclefree, and one that PBers - especially those of us in the Y-chromosome contingent - should re-read and REALLY take to heart.

    Sorry the thred's been somewhat hijacked by the Megahan nonsense but well that's life I guess.

    On THAT, my own view is that the Duchess of Sussex would be a BETTER bet for the White House that say, Baby Don or anyone else named Trump(sky).
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Regular bookmakers will be too chicken to take bets on Meghan. But fellow PBers, as a public service I will generously offer odds of 5,000-1 on her becoming President of the United States in 2024.
    I'll take a tenner at that please.

    Or is it a 31p stake limit deal.
    Read the terms of my offer very closely. And then decide if you want to flush ten quid down the drain.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    I will set aside a month next year to read this piece.

    Why, thank you for proving my point, and so early on in the comments!

    I shall now start writing my next piece so that I can take up another month of your valuable time.

    Don’t be so touchy. I really enjoy your comments below the line. You are admirably honest, articulate, and persuasive.

    However there is a justifiable criticism of your thread headers: they are too long. A huge wodge of text. It’s visually off-putting and I am pretty sure a good editor would and could shorten this one by 50% or more, while still getting over your worthy points - thus making it more likely people will read it: which is what you want.

    Always remember the wise words of Blaise Pascal - ‘I am sorry this letter is so long, I did not have enough time to make it shorter’
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    stodgestodge Posts: 13,309
    Afternoon all :)

    Thank you for the thread, @Cyclefree and in many ways a deeply thought provoking and uncomfortable piece.

    I don't have any answers.

    Sexualisation is part of human nature - the primal urge to copulate and reproduce. Pornography has existed for thousands of years - for all our claims of human evolution and maturity and civilisation, I suspect we've not come as far as we think.

    I don't have any answers.

    EVERY murder is a terrible tragedy for those closest to the victim which, as @Cyclefree correctly opines, all too often includes the perpetrator. However, it's those killings which appear so incredibly random, so incredibly motiveless that bring out the sharpest emotional response. To think a life can be snuffed out in such an abominable way, to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    I don't have any answers.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Regular bookmakers will be too chicken to take bets on Meghan. But fellow PBers, as a public service I will generously offer odds of 5,000-1 on her becoming President of the United States in 2024.
    Shadsy is offering 100/1

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/event/politics/international/us-elections/2024-us-presidential-election/229683570/all-markets
    He's more generous than me. Read the terms of my offer closely.
    Ah I thought that was Betfair style writing and you meant 2024 election.

    No tenner if that's what you mean.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    For me, the key is respect. Young men must to taught to respect women and women must be taught to respect themselves. Women with self respect don't tolerate abuse or disrespect. They know that they are entitled to better. Those lacking that self respect become victims.

    But men who respect women can also help to build that self respect. And they do. It's a virtuous circle that needs to be encouraged.

    Sending nude pictures to each other seems to be the fashion these days amongst the youth with the inevitable results when relationships go sour.
    That's obviously a silly thing to do but a bit of nudity is really no big deal. What is a big deal is the psychological damage that comes comes with it.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,756
    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,782
    Interesting article, a bit wordy but lots of good points raised.

    I think respect for women taught from a young age is key to all of this, my parents played a big role in this for my, my older sister as well. I think Asian men have a lot to learn and thankfully in my generation for Indians it's a lot better than my parent's generation where wife beating was commonplace, honour killings a fact of life in India and forced marriage tolerated. I think Indians in the UK have come a long way and I think the other British Asians could learn a lot from us because if one were to look into the detail of crimes against women Asians will be massively overrepresented and this is all because of a culture that values boys more than girls.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 13,309
    The last of a generation of vintage commentators who defined television sport for me in my younger years.

    Murray Walker can proudly take his place in the commentating pantheon alongside David Coleman, Peter O'Sullivan, Peter Alliss, Harry Carpenter and Reg Gutteridge among others. All those who made 60s and 70s television sport so memorable.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited March 2021
    AnneJGP said:

    ISTR France prevented export of UK orders of PPE when they needed it badly themselves.

    Good afternoon, everybody.
    Indeed, we don't hear this discussed very often - and arguably THE major cause of the UK PPE disaster. The UK went to its usual supplier very early on in the Pandemic (and before many others had thought about it) and placed a massive order under their existing contract that both they and their French supplier expected to be fulfilled. The French, who had been tardy about getting in place PPE orders, confiscated the lot.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,756
    MaxPB said:

    Interesting article, a bit wordy but lots of good points raised.

    I think respect for women taught from a young age is key to all of this, my parents played a big role in this for my, my older sister as well. I think Asian men have a lot to learn and thankfully in my generation for Indians it's a lot better than my parent's generation where wife beating was commonplace, honour killings a fact of life in India and forced marriage tolerated. I think Indians in the UK have come a long way and I think the other British Asians could learn a lot from us because if one were to look into the detail of crimes against women Asians will be massively overrepresented and this is all because of a culture that values boys more than girls.

    A friend of my dad’s spent years travelling round Asia selling stuff (probably weapons, we don’t know for sure). Anyway, he used to take his wife on many trips.

    She told me that everywhere they went was fine and she’d go off exploring places on her own whilst her husband was doing business etc. With one exception. India. She said that when she left the hotel on her own she found she had a group of men following her. She managed to double back to the hotel, but it properly shook her up. Maybe she was unlucky but it fits with other stories that get reported in the media.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    AnneJGP said:

    ISTR France prevented export of UK orders of PPE when they needed it badly themselves.

    Good afternoon, everybody.
    Yep - the NHS placed a huge order in January, then the UK government got blamed for not having enough PPE:

    France has forced a face mask manufacturer to cancel a major UK order as the coronavirus-inspired scramble for protective gear intensifies.

    The National Health Service ordered millions of masks from Valmy SAS near Lyon earlier this year as COVID-19 threatened.

    But amid a global shortage, France earlier this week ordered the requisition of all protective masks made in the country.


    https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-french-protective-mask-manufacturer-scraps-nhs-order-to-keep-masks-in-france
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,999
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?
    Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.
    That sounds chicken and egg.

    Have any members of the UK nobility ever been President before?
    George Washington and the George Bushes were both related to the royals - Washington was descended from I think a daughter of Edward I, while Bush Sr was the queen’s eleventh cousin.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,959
    edited March 2021


    Excellent piece.
    Being an obnoxious, boorish arse has for too long been tolerated.
    Over the past 10 or so years, however, it has become celebrated and fashionable to the point of being a route to fame, fortune and even the highest political office.*
    Maybe if we started calling it out rather than accepting it, or trying to logically reason with it might be a start.
    Make it unfashionable.

    * It is predominantly, but not exclusively, the pastime of men.

    Edit. Oops. Not intended as a reply to @Casino_Royale .
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,999
    India off to the perfect start.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    For me, the key is respect. Young men must to taught to respect women and women must be taught to respect themselves. Women with self respect don't tolerate abuse or disrespect. They know that they are entitled to better. Those lacking that self respect become victims.

    But men who respect women can also help to build that self respect. And they do. It's a virtuous circle that needs to be encouraged.

    Sending nude pictures to each other seems to be the fashion these days amongst the youth with the inevitable results when relationships go sour.
    That's obviously a silly thing to do but a bit of nudity is really no big deal. What is a big deal is the psychological damage that comes comes with it.

    Sending sexy or nude selfies is now universal amongst sexually actively kids. The ramifications trouble me, but I don’t see how you put the genie back in the bottle, now that every child over 10 has a smartphone
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,032
    stodge said:

    The last of a generation of vintage commentators who defined television sport for me in my younger years.

    Murray Walker can proudly take his place in the commentating pantheon alongside David Coleman, Peter O'Sullivan, Peter Alliss, Harry Carpenter and Reg Gutteridge among others. All those who made 60s and 70s television sport so memorable.
    A little later, but Sid Waddell deserves adding to that list.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Wicket Maiden.

    I always feel a Maiden is rarer in a T20 thatn a wicket and probably worth about as much. A wicket maiden is incredible.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,588
    Thank you to Cyclefree for another terrific article. Out of the many questions I have may I pick just one very simple one.

    Cyclefree, along with everyone else says that something must be done and I agree. Who could not?

    In a sense the best way of knowing what should be done, as well as making a provisional finding as to whether it can be done, is to ask: Which country/community/culture at this moment has broadly got it right? Where do go to find the sort of male/female relationships and attitudes that we would like to see here?

    If there is an agreed answer we could learn from it. If there isn't then parts, maybe most, of the problem would need to be filed under 'Intractable issues caused by human nature which may not have feasible solutions.'

    NB The chances that something like this can be solved by the creation of new crimes feels like fanciful wishful thinking.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 79,278
    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    That really sums up Khan....do nothing, hides from tough decisions, but goes full PR when opportunity e.g. Trump.

    You could say that about a lot of politicians i suppose, but he has a long record of being a achieve nothing politician.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,675
    Speaking of women of courage . . . from behind the paywall . . .

    NYT - Jaime Herrera Beutler Is Undaunted
    After seeing her eldest child through a medical nightmare, the six-term Republican from Washington was not intimidated by the idea of breaking with her party to support Donald J. Trump’s impeachment.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/us/politics/jaime-herrera-beutler.html?action=click&algo=identity&block=more_in_recirc&fellback=false&imp_id=73401395&impression_id=9fc8b151-8442-11eb-b00d-3babba05bd83&index=1&pgtype=Article&region=footer&req_id=609640017&surface=more-in-politics&variant=0_identity

    This is a very interesting profile piece, focusing on JHB's combined struggles as the mother of a special-needs child AND as a Christian conservative in the Age of Trumpsky.

    "Ms. Herrera Beutler, who was elected to her sixth term in November, was unbothered by the criticism, and more willing than most in her party to publicly single out its origins.

    She said she did not mind the judgment of “fringe-y people” whose whole political identity was tied to Mr. Trump, because “I’ve never been in that camp, and I’m not going to win them back,” she said. “I’m not exactly courting the white supremacy vote.”

    Personal note:yours truly was one of those, on the Democratic side, who worked to defeat JHB's re-election to Congress in 2018 and 2020. Frankly was NOT all that surprised when she voted to impeach Trumpsky after his attempted Putsch.

    Though I disagree with (at least) 80% of her politics, I salute Jaime Herrera Beutler as a true profile in courage. She makes me proud to be an American, and a Washingtonian.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Wicket Maiden.

    I always feel a Maiden is rarer in a T20 thatn a wicket and probably worth about as much. A wicket maiden is incredible.

    I reckon a non-wicket maiden is probably harder and rarer.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,756
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?
    Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.
    That sounds chicken and egg.

    Have any members of the UK nobility ever been President before?
    George Washington and the George Bushes were both related to the royals - Washington was descended from I think a daughter of Edward I, while Bush Sr was the queen’s eleventh cousin.
    Ooo they’re on the peerage. I’ll have a look later to see if I’m related to them:

    https://www.thepeerage.com/p32217.htm
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Truly excellent post by Cyclefree, and one that PBers - especially those of us in the Y-chromosome contingent - should re-read and REALLY take to heart.

    Sorry the thred's been somewhat hijacked by the Megahan nonsense but well that's life I guess.

    On THAT, my own view is that the Duchess of Sussex would be a BETTER bet for the White House that say, Baby Don or anyone else named Trump(sky).

    Really?

    This is all irrelevant to me, and I hope to the vast majority of PBers, as neither a perpetrator, enabler nor condoner of any of this stuff. But, oh look, a visible-a-mile-off little booby trap has been cunningly incorporated into the piece to stop me saying that: "there is something narcissistic (grotesque even) about the rush by some men to focus on how they are not to blame, should not be victimised and should not have their freedoms curbed." I am not rushing to focus on anything, I don't claim to be victimised or to have had my freedoms curbed, I have yet to say anything at all on the subject and I am saying this now merely to rebut the insinuation to the contrary in the piece. We are not all guilty.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting article, a bit wordy but lots of good points raised.

    I think respect for women taught from a young age is key to all of this, my parents played a big role in this for my, my older sister as well. I think Asian men have a lot to learn and thankfully in my generation for Indians it's a lot better than my parent's generation where wife beating was commonplace, honour killings a fact of life in India and forced marriage tolerated. I think Indians in the UK have come a long way and I think the other British Asians could learn a lot from us because if one were to look into the detail of crimes against women Asians will be massively overrepresented and this is all because of a culture that values boys more than girls.

    A friend of my dad’s spent years travelling round Asia selling stuff (probably weapons, we don’t know for sure). Anyway, he used to take his wife on many trips.

    She told me that everywhere they went was fine and she’d go off exploring places on her own whilst her husband was doing business etc. With one exception. India. She said that when she left the hotel on her own she found she had a group of men following her. She managed to double back to the hotel, but it properly shook her up. Maybe she was unlucky but it fits with other stories that get reported in the media.
    I once took a young, pretty, blonde, blue eyed girlfriend to the Red Fort in Delhi. Without exaggeration, she came close to causing a riot. It started with young men wanting to be photographed next to her. Then women as well. Then large groups. Then the Indian people started jostling and shouting at each other as to who could get closest - fighting was imminent - finally the police intervened, forcefully - batons raised - and escorted us outside and to safety.

    Quite scary.

    It’s not just India tho. Woe betide the young blonde western woman in, say, Cairo

  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,588

    Ugh, this is why I could never be a Labour voter.

    https://twitter.com/GroomB/status/1370837652086394882

    I don't suppose Roy Jenkins was a regular at Filey either but that didn't stop him being a great labour Home Secretary.

    The leader Butlins folk would enjoy the company of is a fellow called Boris Johnson. I can't think of a Labour leader who would be comfortable in the knobbly knees comp etc. Nor another Tory one.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,999
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?
    Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.
    That sounds chicken and egg.

    Have any members of the UK nobility ever been President before?
    George Washington and the George Bushes were both related to the royals - Washington was descended from I think a daughter of Edward I, while Bush Sr was the queen’s eleventh cousin.
    Ooo they’re on the peerage. I’ll have a look later to see if I’m related to them:

    https://www.thepeerage.com/p32217.htm
    I’m not surprised to find the Bushes listed in Burke’s.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,675
    IshmaelZ said:

    Truly excellent post by Cyclefree, and one that PBers - especially those of us in the Y-chromosome contingent - should re-read and REALLY take to heart.

    Sorry the thred's been somewhat hijacked by the Megahan nonsense but well that's life I guess.

    On THAT, my own view is that the Duchess of Sussex would be a BETTER bet for the White House that say, Baby Don or anyone else named Trump(sky).

    Really?

    This is all irrelevant to me, and I hope to the vast majority of PBers, as neither a perpetrator, enabler nor condoner of any of this stuff. But, oh look, a visible-a-mile-off little booby trap has been cunningly incorporated into the piece to stop me saying that: "there is something narcissistic (grotesque even) about the rush by some men to focus on how they are not to blame, should not be victimised and should not have their freedoms curbed." I am not rushing to focus on anything, I don't claim to be victimised or to have had my freedoms curbed, I have yet to say anything at all on the subject and I am saying this now merely to rebut the insinuation to the contrary in the piece. We are not all guilty.
    Do you mean we men are (mostly) not all guilty ALL of the time? Or that most of us are not guilty MOST of the time?

    The latter I would agree with, the former not.

    Why? Because I believe sexism is similar to racism, in that it is something DEEPLY ingrained and thus is in the warp and woof of nearly every human being, in some form or fashion.
  • Options
    alednamalednam Posts: 186
    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    Sadiq Khan doesn't deserve your abuse. At the time when Khan struck you as a COVID zealot, it wasn't yet known that, as Patrick Vallance said, "There is so far no evidence that mass gatherings lead to a rise in COVID-19 cases. ... following recent mass gatherings ... during protests." And what Vallance said (reiterated by Chris Whitty) cohered with there being no spike in infections in New York City following demonstrations there.
    If Khan doesn't understand why the application to hold a vigil wasn't treated on its merits, I'm with him. You perhaps wouldn't want to treat it on its merits -- especially if that enables you to derogate him.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,032
    IshmaelZ said:

    Truly excellent post by Cyclefree, and one that PBers - especially those of us in the Y-chromosome contingent - should re-read and REALLY take to heart.

    Sorry the thred's been somewhat hijacked by the Megahan nonsense but well that's life I guess.

    On THAT, my own view is that the Duchess of Sussex would be a BETTER bet for the White House that say, Baby Don or anyone else named Trump(sky).

    Really?

    This is all irrelevant to me, and I hope to the vast majority of PBers, as neither a perpetrator, enabler nor condoner of any of this stuff. But, oh look, a visible-a-mile-off little booby trap has been cunningly incorporated into the piece to stop me saying that: "there is something narcissistic (grotesque even) about the rush by some men to focus on how they are not to blame, should not be victimised and should not have their freedoms curbed." I am not rushing to focus on anything, I don't claim to be victimised or to have had my freedoms curbed, I have yet to say anything at all on the subject and I am saying this now merely to rebut the insinuation to the contrary in the piece. We are not all guilty.
    Oh dear. You will be accused of "whining".

    Having spent a lifetime being never a perpetrator, enabler nor condoner of any of this stuff, I have huge sympathy for women who suffer the horrors meted out by that smallish percentage of twattish blokes who think they can use their physical form or belief in some inherent male advantage of "the system". But marking all our cards gets women nowhere, other than embedding the victimhood. Recruits us, don't paint us as all part of the problem.

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170

    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    That really sums up Khan....do nothing, hides from tough decisions, but goes full PR when opportunity e.g. Trump.

    You could say that about a lot of politicians i suppose, but he has a long record of being a achieve nothing politician.
    I think I dislike Khan even more than Corbyn. Which is saying something. At least with Corbyn you got a sense he had some principles and integrity, even if his principles were warped and his integrity valueless.

    Khan comes across as a void. A meretricious, insinuating nullity.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,675
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


    https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

    Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?
    Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.
    That sounds chicken and egg.

    Have any members of the UK nobility ever been President before?
    George Washington and the George Bushes were both related to the royals - Washington was descended from I think a daughter of Edward I, while Bush Sr was the queen’s eleventh cousin.
    Ooo they’re on the peerage. I’ll have a look later to see if I’m related to them:

    https://www.thepeerage.com/p32217.htm
    I’m not surprised to find the Bushes listed in Burke’s.
    Like the late Ann Richards memorably said, “Poor George [Bush], he can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth.”
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,959
    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    And now the Home Secretary has followed suit.
    Cue "firm leadership."
  • Options
    alednamalednam Posts: 186
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Thank you for the thread, @Cyclefree and in many ways a deeply thought provoking and uncomfortable piece.

    I don't have any answers.

    Sexualisation is part of human nature - the primal urge to copulate and reproduce. Pornography has existed for thousands of years - for all our claims of human evolution and maturity and civilisation, I suspect we've not come as far as we think.

    I don't have any answers.

    EVERY murder is a terrible tragedy for those closest to the victim which, as @Cyclefree correctly opines, all too often includes the perpetrator. However, it's those killings which appear so incredibly random, so incredibly motiveless that bring out the sharpest emotional response. To think a life can be snuffed out in such an abominable way, to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    I don't have any answers.

    You won't have answers so long as you can rest your case with 'Sexualisation is part of human nature". When John Stuart Mill wrote 'What is normal seems natural", he was speaking of the subjection of women, and he hoped that because it was normal (i.e. normally found), it might not be attributed to what you call "human nature".
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,456
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    And now the Home Secretary has followed suit.
    Cue "firm leadership."
    What was her latest statement? I only see the tweet from last night.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,756
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    And now the Home Secretary has followed suit.
    Cue "firm leadership."
    Err, no. You can always count on politicians to throw the police under a bus.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170
    alednam said:

    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    Sadiq Khan doesn't deserve your abuse. At the time when Khan struck you as a COVID zealot, it wasn't yet known that, as Patrick Vallance said, "There is so far no evidence that mass gatherings lead to a rise in COVID-19 cases. ... following recent mass gatherings ... during protests." And what Vallance said (reiterated by Chris Whitty) cohered with there being no spike in infections in New York City following demonstrations there.
    If Khan doesn't understand why the application to hold a vigil wasn't treated on its merits, I'm with him. You perhaps wouldn't want to treat it on its merits -- especially if that enables you to derogate him.
    I’m old enough to remember when Khan was encouraging all of us to use the Tube during early Covid, because it was so ‘safe’

    https://twitter.com/captaincookuk/status/1246705304714256384?s=21

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1246697830665904129?s=21

    Oh.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,309


    That really sums up Khan....do nothing, hides from tough decisions, but goes full PR when opportunity e.g. Trump.

    You could say that about a lot of politicians i suppose, but he has a long record of being a achieve nothing politician.

    You could say that about his two immediate predecessors as Mayor of London in all honesty.

    The post is an overpaid sinecure without a smidgen of actual responsibility and authority - a bit like being First Minister of Scotland or Leader of Surrey County Council I suppose.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Excellent article Cyclefree.

    A primary target needs to be criminal justice reform, which means serious jailtime for breaking the law.

    I am limited in my ability to relate to the way women are subjected to harrasment, but mentioned on the previous thread that I have been repeatedly a victim of violent crimes. Despite on two occasions the perpetuator getting arrested red handed, on one occasion they only got a six month jail sentence, on the other a suspended sentence. The prosecution, conviction and sentencing rates of sexual offenders are no better.

    Why should law abiding women change their behaviour? All law abiding people have no choice but to change their behaviour when law breaking people are not taken off the streets for serious lengths of time even when evidence has been gathered, they've been arrested, caught, prosecuted and sentenced.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,756
    alednam said:

    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    Sadiq Khan doesn't deserve your abuse. At the time when Khan struck you as a COVID zealot, it wasn't yet known that, as Patrick Vallance said, "There is so far no evidence that mass gatherings lead to a rise in COVID-19 cases. ... following recent mass gatherings ... during protests." And what Vallance said (reiterated by Chris Whitty) cohered with there being no spike in infections in New York City following demonstrations there.
    If Khan doesn't understand why the application to hold a vigil wasn't treated on its merits, I'm with him. You perhaps wouldn't want to treat it on its merits -- especially if that enables you to derogate him.
    Hang on, I supported the BLM demonstrations on the basis that they’d provide good evidence on transmission outside. Sadly, the morons making the decisions ignored the evidence and banned the right demonstrate.

    All that needed to happen this week was for politicians to say “you know what, we got it wrong”, refunded those fines and allowed people demonstrate all they liked. But no, they don’t want to be seen to be soft on COVID, so far easier to blame the nasty police.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex_ said:

    Wicket Maiden.

    I always feel a Maiden is rarer in a T20 thatn a wicket and probably worth about as much. A wicket maiden is incredible.

    I reckon a non-wicket maiden is probably harder and rarer.
    With the way Kohli is batting a non-wicket maiden might have been better.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,959
    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    And now the Home Secretary has followed suit.
    Cue "firm leadership."
    What was her latest statement? I only see the tweet from last night.
    She's ordered the same investigation. Presumably equally dissatisfied with answers thus far.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170
    stodge said:


    That really sums up Khan....do nothing, hides from tough decisions, but goes full PR when opportunity e.g. Trump.

    You could say that about a lot of politicians i suppose, but he has a long record of being a achieve nothing politician.

    You could say that about his two immediate predecessors as Mayor of London in all honesty.

    The post is an overpaid sinecure without a smidgen of actual responsibility and authority - a bit like being First Minister of Scotland or Leader of Surrey County Council I suppose.
    Yes. But both prior mayors - Ken and Boris (in very different ways) - had a positivity to them. Slightly rebellious, certainly upbeat, apparently dynamic (even if it was a facade). They were good figureheads for a great, bustling, kinetic city like London.

    Khan is so utterly dreary. He’s a downer. A whiny voice always lamenting. So he’s no good at the one thing a mayor can and should do: lead and inspire
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,095
    Worth sharing this tweet. Seems pulmonary events in the UK have been slightly more common in Pfizer-vaccinated people but there's really no difference and about what you would expect in the general population. https://twitter.com/Martin_Moder/status/1371033872046166025?s=19
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,588
    alednam said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Thank you for the thread, @Cyclefree and in many ways a deeply thought provoking and uncomfortable piece.

    I don't have any answers.

    Sexualisation is part of human nature - the primal urge to copulate and reproduce. Pornography has existed for thousands of years - for all our claims of human evolution and maturity and civilisation, I suspect we've not come as far as we think.

    I don't have any answers.

    EVERY murder is a terrible tragedy for those closest to the victim which, as @Cyclefree correctly opines, all too often includes the perpetrator. However, it's those killings which appear so incredibly random, so incredibly motiveless that bring out the sharpest emotional response. To think a life can be snuffed out in such an abominable way, to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    I don't have any answers.

    You won't have answers so long as you can rest your case with 'Sexualisation is part of human nature". When John Stuart Mill wrote 'What is normal seems natural", he was speaking of the subjection of women, and he hoped that because it was normal (i.e. normally found), it might not be attributed to what you call "human nature".
    It's obvious from the context what Stodge meant by 'sexualisation'. Of course he is right. Good luck to anyone seriously wanting to deny that it is part of human nature.

  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025
    Leon said:

    alednam said:

    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    Sadiq Khan doesn't deserve your abuse. At the time when Khan struck you as a COVID zealot, it wasn't yet known that, as Patrick Vallance said, "There is so far no evidence that mass gatherings lead to a rise in COVID-19 cases. ... following recent mass gatherings ... during protests." And what Vallance said (reiterated by Chris Whitty) cohered with there being no spike in infections in New York City following demonstrations there.
    If Khan doesn't understand why the application to hold a vigil wasn't treated on its merits, I'm with him. You perhaps wouldn't want to treat it on its merits -- especially if that enables you to derogate him.
    I’m old enough to remember when Khan was encouraging all of us to use the Tube during early Covid, because it was so ‘safe’
    What were you called then? I forget.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,309
    F1: Verstappen fastest today and, I think, overall.

    Had a small amount on that at 5.5 (free bet). Little spot of greenery.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300
    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    What an opportunistic shit.

    It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.
    And now the Home Secretary has followed suit.
    Cue "firm leadership."
    Err, no. You can always count on politicians to throw the police under a bus.
    It wasn't that long ago that a member of the police attempted to "fit up" a cabinet minister.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,588
    edited March 2021
    Just thinking about one of Cyclefree's suggestions.
    I don't know any parent or school that hasn't tried to impart values of respect towards women and girls to young males. Between us on PB, do we know any? Does Cyclefree?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    India absolutely smashing this.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,015
    Indian run rate chart looking like Drakeford's vaccination numbers.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,740

    Why should law abiding women change their behaviour? All law abiding people have no choice but to change their behaviour when law breaking people are not taken off the streets for serious lengths of time even when evidence has been gathered, they've been arrested, caught, prosecuted and sentenced.

    I'm pretty sure most people will know of and avoid rough pubs, certain areas of town, and circumstances like late night travel on public transport; or if they don't avoid them they are on their guard. It's completely normal for example to be aware of kicking-out time.

    It shouldn't be a men versus women debate, the vast majority of people share the same concerns and want safer streets.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,999

    alex_ said:

    Wicket Maiden.

    I always feel a Maiden is rarer in a T20 thatn a wicket and probably worth about as much. A wicket maiden is incredible.

    I reckon a non-wicket maiden is probably harder and rarer.
    With the way Kohli is batting a non-wicket maiden might have been better.
    Not going at all well for England. Very difficult to see a path to victory from here.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300

    Excellent article Cyclefree.

    A primary target needs to be criminal justice reform, which means serious jailtime for breaking the law.

    I am limited in my ability to relate to the way women are subjected to harrasment, but mentioned on the previous thread that I have been repeatedly a victim of violent crimes. Despite on two occasions the perpetuator getting arrested red handed, on one occasion they only got a six month jail sentence, on the other a suspended sentence. The prosecution, conviction and sentencing rates of sexual offenders are no better.

    Why should law abiding women change their behaviour? All law abiding people have no choice but to change their behaviour when law breaking people are not taken off the streets for serious lengths of time even when evidence has been gathered, they've been arrested, caught, prosecuted and sentenced.

    The real problem with the criminal justice system right now is not the length of sentences, but that trial dates being set now are for 2023. That's right, if you committed a crime in 2019, were arrested in 2020, and charges were brought now, then you could look forward to your day in court in two and a half years time.

    When there is a close to five year gap between offences being committed and trial dates, the chance of conviction is meaningfully diminished.

    And criminals concentrate far more on the chance of going to prison, than whether it's a nine or an eleven year sentence.
This discussion has been closed.