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You might need a brave heart for this Scottish bet – politicalbetting.com

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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Al, to be fair, the Tower Hamlets disgrace didn't happen in the shires.
  • Male officers in the Metropolitan Police. Dragging women off into the dark. At a vigil to a woman dragged off in the dark, murdered and seemingly dismembered. With a male officer in the Metropolitan Police charged with her abduction and murder.

    Wasn't the smartest rules of engagement was it?

    It was idiotic and why when the vigil was nearing its end

    Dick has to resign
    Therein would lie an incredible irony. Individual violence against a woman by a male Policeman, followed by (generally, but not exclusively) violence from male Policemen towards groups of women, and the head you are calling for is that of an LGBT woman.
    I would comment that in the coverage there were both male and female officers involved, and the head of the police force involved in this obvious idiotic decision has to take the responsibility

    I am surprised you should refer to her gender and sexuality as a mitigating circumstance that simply is irrelevant
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    ...

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Certainly according to the latest Comres poll last week, the SNP have already fallen below 50% on the constituency vote

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1369936341404942341?s=20
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    Male officers in the Metropolitan Police. Dragging women off into the dark. At a vigil to a woman dragged off in the dark, murdered and seemingly dismembered. With a male officer in the Metropolitan Police charged with her abduction and murder.

    Wasn't the smartest rules of engagement was it?

    It was idiotic and why when the vigil was nearing its end

    Dick has to resign
    Therein would lie an incredible irony. Individual violence against a woman by a male Policeman, followed by (generally, but not exclusively) violence from male Policemen towards groups of women, and the head you are calling for is that of an LGBT woman.
    So we should be gender blind - except when a woman fucks up?
    No, I was just pointing out the irony.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,878
    Nigelb said:
    I can’t help myself - who got the .58 dose?
    Science 101 units!!!!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    As for the mayoral election - everyone should vote for the Lib Dem. Shaun Bailey is completely useless, Sadiq has proven he's incapable of doing this job, we need new leadership and a new perspective for London.

    Unfortunately Sadiq is going to win and we'll get another 4 years of useless leadership and constant negativity coming from the top.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    Male officers in the Metropolitan Police. Dragging women off into the dark. At a vigil to a woman dragged off in the dark, murdered and seemingly dismembered. With a male officer in the Metropolitan Police charged with her abduction and murder.

    Wasn't the smartest rules of engagement was it?

    It was idiotic and why when the vigil was nearing its end

    Dick has to resign
    Therein would lie an incredible irony. Individual violence against a woman by a male Policeman, followed by (generally, but not exclusively) violence from male Policemen towards groups of women, and the head you are calling for is that of an LGBT woman.
    I would comment that in the coverage there were both male and female officers involved, and the head of the police force involved in this obvious idiotic decision has to take the responsibility

    I am surprised you should refer to her gender and sexuality as a mitigating circumstance that simply is irrelevant
    I wasn't. I was, as I have said earlier pointing out the irony.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    I would be delighted to see Khan on the wrong end of the biggest shock in domestic politics as she replaces him. Sadly, he will still get the benefit of all those harvested votes, with no consideration of whether or not he is a complete waste of space.....
    I'm curious as to what you mean by "harvested votes"? Would you use the same expression for the loyal shire Tory vote in places like Devon, or is it something specific to London?
    It is something that happens in communities of south Asian heritage. If we had south Asian communities in Devon, it would no doubt happen here too.

    However, round here, the local "community leaders" are more interested in showing off their latest inappropriately large tractors. And their wives make their own minds up on how they vote.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Stocky said:

    Just looking at the thread last night, with Brom claiming that it kicked off because of militants and extremists...

    ...one of the reasons this started blowing up (while PBers were making nob jokes) was testimony on Twitter from very normal non-radical women who were at the vigil and shocked by how the police behaved.

    Why were they there? This was best ignored, policing-wise, wasn't it?
    Police preparing for the new powers the Tories are hoping to give them tomorrow. State storm troopers here we come.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081

    Nigelb said:
    I can’t help myself - who got the .58 dose?
    Science 101 units!!!!
    Nevertheless an impressive achievement, while we wait for our long promised March ramping up.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    HYUFD said:

    Certainly according to the latest Comres poll last week, the SNP have already fallen below 50% on the constituency vote

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1369936341404942341?s=20

    Does a 3% swing SNP --> Conservative actually shift many seats?
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    HYUFD said:

    Certainly according to the latest Comres poll last week, the SNP have already fallen below 50% on the constituency vote

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1369936341404942341?s=20

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly according to the latest Comres poll last week, the SNP have already fallen below 50% on the constituency vote

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1369936341404942341?s=20

    That is a bleak poll for indy
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,459

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    I would be delighted to see Khan on the wrong end of the biggest shock in domestic politics as she replaces him. Sadly, he will still get the benefit of all those harvested votes, with no consideration of whether or not he is a complete waste of space.....
    I'm curious as to what you mean by "harvested votes"? Would you use the same expression for the loyal shire Tory vote in places like Devon, or is it something specific to London?
    It is something that happens in communities of south Asian heritage. If we had south Asian communities in Devon, it would no doubt happen here too.

    However, round here, the local "community leaders" are more interested in showing off their latest inappropriately large tractors. And their wives make their own minds up on how they vote.
    Presumably they use their tractors to, erm, harvest their votes. :)

    I'm aware that there have been some issues in Tower Hamlets, but I'd be interested in concrete evidence that Khan's anticipated victory will in any way be influenced by significant harvesting of South Asian heritage votes. The idea that people of that heritage would let others decide their vote is, at best, patronising.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    I am getting puzzled now. If there were an issue with blood clotting associated with AZN, you would expect it to have become a real issue here given how widely we're using it. Yet all the cases seem to be in Europe.

    Is the problem perhaps not the vaccine but issues at the plants in the EU?

    Although as they're sending vaccine to the UK as well, even that wouldn't explain it.

    Or is it just somebody finding random events and trying to posit a causal link from them?
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    MaxPB said:

    As for the mayoral election - everyone should vote for the Lib Dem. Shaun Bailey is completely useless, Sadiq has proven he's incapable of doing this job, we need new leadership and a new perspective for London.

    Unfortunately Sadiq is going to win and we'll get another 4 years of useless leadership and constant negativity coming from the top.

    Isn’t Luisa Porritt a former Lib Dem MEP? I won’t vote for Bailey but no chance I’d vote for a second ref supporter and nor will many others who support democracy.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    As for the mayoral election - everyone should vote for the Lib Dem. Shaun Bailey is completely useless, Sadiq has proven he's incapable of doing this job, we need new leadership and a new perspective for London.

    Unfortunately Sadiq is going to win and we'll get another 4 years of useless leadership and constant negativity coming from the top.

    Isn’t Luisa Porritt a former Lib Dem MEP? I won’t vote for Bailey but no chance I’d vote for a second ref supporter and nor will many others who support democracy.
    We've left the EU and the Lib Dems haven't really got any say over it now. It's time to move on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    edited March 2021
    AFAIK, there is zero evidence that the incidence of thrombotic events is any higher in those who’ve had the AZN vaccine than in the general population.

    I’d also note that blood clots are a fairly common effect of Covid.

    (And feeling fine after my AZN shot yesterday, FWIW.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    As for the mayoral election - everyone should vote for the Lib Dem. Shaun Bailey is completely useless, Sadiq has proven he's incapable of doing this job, we need new leadership and a new perspective for London.

    Unfortunately Sadiq is going to win and we'll get another 4 years of useless leadership and constant negativity coming from the top.

    Isn’t Luisa Porritt a former Lib Dem MEP? I won’t vote for Bailey but no chance I’d vote for a second ref supporter and nor will many others who support democracy.
    I don't think she will be supporting a second ref at this moment...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    ydoethur said:

    I am getting puzzled now. If there were an issue with blood clotting associated with AZN, you would expect it to have become a real issue here given how widely we're using it. Yet all the cases seem to be in Europe.

    Is the problem perhaps not the vaccine but issues at the plants in the EU?

    Although as they're sending vaccine to the UK as well, even that wouldn't explain it.

    Or is it just somebody finding random events and trying to posit a causal link from them?
    The last one. The EMA have already said this is the case.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    edited March 2021
    HYUFD said:
    He's certainly right to be worried about inflation.

    10 year 'gold standard' US treasury bills yield were up on Friday.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited March 2021
  • HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585
    OMG, I agree with Hartley-Brewer, although I suspect, from a diametrically opposite angle.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,342

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    I would be delighted to see Khan on the wrong end of the biggest shock in domestic politics as she replaces him. Sadly, he will still get the benefit of all those harvested votes, with no consideration of whether or not he is a complete waste of space.....
    I'm curious as to what you mean by "harvested votes"? Would you use the same expression for the loyal shire Tory vote in places like Devon, or is it something specific to London?
    It is something that happens in communities of south Asian heritage. If we had south Asian communities in Devon, it would no doubt happen here too.

    However, round here, the local "community leaders" are more interested in showing off their latest inappropriately large tractors. And their wives make their own minds up on how they vote.
    The only vote I fully trust is the one delivered in person in a polling booth. It is mind boggling that we go to all the trouble of enforcing and supervising the system in the polling station but take no steps to do the same with the millions of votes cast in other ways.

  • MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
    His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Stocky said:

    Just looking at the thread last night, with Brom claiming that it kicked off because of militants and extremists...

    ...one of the reasons this started blowing up (while PBers were making nob jokes) was testimony on Twitter from very normal non-radical women who were at the vigil and shocked by how the police behaved.

    Why were they there? This was best ignored, policing-wise, wasn't it?
    When I was stopped and searched (the police were looking for someone who had recently held up the Post Office, and I unfortunately matched the description), the main officer became very apologetic when he realises it obviously wasn’t me. He said something like “if we don’t do our job right every time we get criticised”.

    The same applies here. The responsibility rests with the politicians. You cannot leave the police to “use their judgment”. Either civil liberties are on hold or they are not. The police don’t get to pick and choose when they intervene.
    They choose that every day, multiple times. The one time I needed police assistance they very much chose not to intervene.
    Yes, and you’d have a right to be pissed off when they don’t treat your particular case seriously.

    What we are talking about the severe curtailment of civil liberties. Now, I’ve never been on a demonstration. Perhaps most on PB are the same and we don’t really care about it because it’s what other people do.

    The Met has taken zero tolerance policy for policing this sort of thing. You cannot criticise them for being consistent. It’s a fundamental part of who they are and what they do.
    But "this sort of thing" in this instance was a vigil to honour a woman who, it would seem from all the available evidence in the public domain, was kidnapped and killed by a serving police officer. If that doesn't require a tailor-made response, I don't what does.

    The actions of the police came across as "Yeah, he was one of ours. Fuck you."
    It really doesn’t. The police are doing their jobs. That it is an uncomfortable situation for them doesn’t change the fact that right now, they are policing in exceptional circumstances. If they don’t do their job as they would for anyone else, they would quite rightly get pilloried.

    My dad has made the point that the women at that event are white. If the police don’t do they’re job, they would be criticised for going soft on middle class white women.
    Bollox, they can turn a blind eye any time it suits them. Beating up women protesting peacefully is not a good look and absolutely shows what happens when you give these donkeys too much power.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    I am getting puzzled now. If there were an issue with blood clotting associated with AZN, you would expect it to have become a real issue here given how widely we're using it. Yet all the cases seem to be in Europe.

    Is the problem perhaps not the vaccine but issues at the plants in the EU?

    Although as they're sending vaccine to the UK as well, even that wouldn't explain it.

    Or is it just somebody finding random events and trying to posit a causal link from them?
    The last one. The EMA have already said this is the case.
    Then I think there is a case to be made that that person (or of course institution) should be facing charges of manslaughter given this stupidity is killing people.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    ydoethur said:

    I am getting puzzled now. If there were an issue with blood clotting associated with AZN, you would expect it to have become a real issue here given how widely we're using it. Yet all the cases seem to be in Europe.

    Is the problem perhaps not the vaccine but issues at the plants in the EU?

    Although as they're sending vaccine to the UK as well, even that wouldn't explain it.

    Or is it just somebody finding random events and trying to posit a causal link from them?
    There does appear to be a possible quality control issue with some of the European output. It would be good to know how they are doing the final QA, is it left to the country of use or is an EU agency doing it themselves prior to distribution?

    While I’m not one for conspiracy theories, there do appear to be a lot of people wishing this particular vaccine to have issues.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    Yes - I've not rated Jess Phillips hugely up to now, but that's a very well-considered interview.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751

    Now moved in!!!

    Congratulations Horse. Every happiness in your new place.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,342

    OMG, I agree with Hartley-Brewer, although I suspect, from a diametrically opposite angle.
    The small but active Union of QAnon, Piers Corbynite and Feminist Rangers Supporters are anxious to agree
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    If the EU doesn't want Astra could they send more our way ? Or slightly more seriously donate it to the Covax effort ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    Pulpstar said:

    If the EU doesn't want Astra could they send more our way ? Or slightly more seriously donate it to the Covax effort ?

    The latter wouldn't be a great look.

    'We think this vaccine is dangerous for us Europeans. You poor people are more than welcome to it.'
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,084
    Longer interview with Patsy Stevenson - the woman who was briefly arrested.

    https://twitter.com/counterfireorg/status/1370899755786702849

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
    His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
    Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    Not rocket science, but many on here seem to struggle with this.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005

    Male officers in the Metropolitan Police. Dragging women off into the dark. At a vigil to a woman dragged off in the dark, murdered and seemingly dismembered. With a male officer in the Metropolitan Police charged with her abduction and murder.

    Wasn't the smartest rules of engagement was it?

    I'm sorry but the context really shouldn't be important. As I said last night the police should be consistent. Not one set of rules for one type of demo and a different set of rules for another.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If the EU doesn't want Astra could they send more our way ? Or slightly more seriously donate it to the Covax effort ?

    The latter wouldn't be a great look.

    'We think this vaccine is dangerous for us Europeans. You poor people are more than welcome to it.'
    Fine send it to the UK then
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    ydoethur said:

    I am getting puzzled now. If there were an issue with blood clotting associated with AZN, you would expect it to have become a real issue here given how widely we're using it. Yet all the cases seem to be in Europe.

    Is the problem perhaps not the vaccine but issues at the plants in the EU?

    Although as they're sending vaccine to the UK as well, even that wouldn't explain it.

    Or is it just somebody finding random events and trying to posit a causal link from them?
    If it was the vaccine there is no way we would not have seen greater numbers in UK. They seem to just be desperate to confirm their biased opinions that Astra Zeneca vaccine is bad.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336
    Sandpit said:

    What do we know of those arrested at the demo in London - were they women peacefully holding a vigil for their friend, or some of the more aggressive SWP/ER types who we know went spoiling for a fight with police at the anti-racism protests last year?

    You'll be saying it was Antifa next.......
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
    His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
    Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
    What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    As for the mayoral election - everyone should vote for the Lib Dem. Shaun Bailey is completely useless, Sadiq has proven he's incapable of doing this job, we need new leadership and a new perspective for London.

    Unfortunately Sadiq is going to win and we'll get another 4 years of useless leadership and constant negativity coming from the top.

    Isn’t Luisa Porritt a former Lib Dem MEP? I won’t vote for Bailey but no chance I’d vote for a second ref supporter and nor will many others who support democracy.
    We've left the EU and the Lib Dems haven't really got any say over it now. It's time to move on.
    Moving on is fine and I’m glad Brexit is beneficial in a number of ways but equally it’s not easy to instantly forget the political record of politicians of many hues. The Lib Dem’s are probably discovering this in his polling. Past mistakes are not instantly forgivable and your polling ceiling can be reduced by those you’ve alienated along the way.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly according to the latest Comres poll last week, the SNP have already fallen below 50% on the constituency vote

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1369936341404942341?s=20

    Does a 3% swing SNP --> Conservative actually shift many seats?
    Perthshire South and Kinrosshire and Edinburgh Pentlands would go from SNP to Conservative on a 3% swing on the Holyrood constituency vote
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If the EU doesn't want Astra could they send more our way ? Or slightly more seriously donate it to the Covax effort ?

    The latter wouldn't be a great look.

    'We think this vaccine is dangerous for us Europeans. You poor people are more than welcome to it.'
    Fine send it to the UK then
    Which would of course then enable us to donate more to Covax, which might work.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,084
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
    *Building* homes for £100k is a piece of pie, especially if you are doing 100k of them. The issue is how to do the land.

    He's also talked about shared ownership. The implication is that 100k will be the price for a share.

    The question is doing the whole project in one term.


  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Dick is well named though , how many clusterfcuks can she survive. Seems the more incompetent you are the higher up the Met you go.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited March 2021
    Once a vaccination program has gained critical mass, and ours has by vaccinating ~ 90%+ of over 65s - so everyone's parents or grandparents are now vaccinated the side effect/scare stories don't resonate because it goes against people's loved ones experience.
    That's not where Europe is so people are more worried about the vaccinations.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
    His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
    Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
    What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
    By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,620

    Male officers in the Metropolitan Police. Dragging women off into the dark. At a vigil to a woman dragged off in the dark, murdered and seemingly dismembered. With a male officer in the Metropolitan Police charged with her abduction and murder.

    Wasn't the smartest rules of engagement was it?

    I'm sorry but the context really shouldn't be important. As I said last night the police should be consistent. Not one set of rules for one type of demo and a different set of rules for another.
    One set of rules for one type of demo and different set for another is exactly how policing with discretion works.

    Or we could go all American and assume that the all protestors are heavily armed Black Panthers*. Just to be on the safe side.

    *Obviously, heavily armed white people would be different.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
    *Building* homes for £100k is a piece of pie, especially if you are doing 100k of them. The issue is how to do the land.

    He's also talked about shared ownership. The implication is that 100k will be the price for a share.

    The question is doing the whole project in one term.


    Not in London. The land cost will be higher than that.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    tlg86 said:

    Andrew Marr show reporting vigils were conducted peacefully across the UK yesterday in contrast to the mayhem caused by the MET

    Were there not vigils in other parts of London?
    Not that I'm aware of (obvs could be wrong). I looked at the Reclaim the Streets website to see if there was one I could attend (before the court decision cancelled them) and could only see the one in London (the others that I saw in the south were Dorking and Brighton).
  • TresTres Posts: 2,162
    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    As for the mayoral election - everyone should vote for the Lib Dem. Shaun Bailey is completely useless, Sadiq has proven he's incapable of doing this job, we need new leadership and a new perspective for London.

    Unfortunately Sadiq is going to win and we'll get another 4 years of useless leadership and constant negativity coming from the top.

    Isn’t Luisa Porritt a former Lib Dem MEP? I won’t vote for Bailey but no chance I’d vote for a second ref supporter and nor will many others who support democracy.
    Odd comment. 2016 WAS a second ref.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
    You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.

    You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.

    As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly according to the latest Comres poll last week, the SNP have already fallen below 50% on the constituency vote

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1369936341404942341?s=20

    Does a 3% swing SNP --> Conservative actually shift many seats?
    Perthshire South and Kinrosshire and Edinburgh Pentlands would go from SNP to Conservative on a 3% swing on the Holyrood constituency vote
    So, no.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
    His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
    Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
    What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
    By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
    So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.

    You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    ydoethur said:

    I am getting puzzled now. If there were an issue with blood clotting associated with AZN, you would expect it to have become a real issue here given how widely we're using it. Yet all the cases seem to be in Europe.

    Is the problem perhaps not the vaccine but issues at the plants in the EU?

    Although as they're sending vaccine to the UK as well, even that wouldn't explain it.

    Or is it just somebody finding random events and trying to posit a causal link from them?
    Hopefully it has nothing to do with AZN being distributed on a not for profit basis.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 395

    JHB is a classic rentagob. Park any other protests and their policing - they aren't the issue. Take a step back. Breathe.

    Women - including JHB - have at one time or another feared for their safety because of the actions of men. Last week, a young woman was abducted, murdered and seemingly brutalised until what the police found was not her body but "human remains" where ID was via dental records.

    The chief suspect is a serving male Metropolitan Police officer, charged with Abduction and Murder. So, in the specifics of last nights vigil, on what planet is it sensible for the Metropolitan Police to command male officers to drag women off into the darkness?

    In the rather unique circumstances of this case their response at worst should have been stand off. At best to find out how many female officers they could muster to police it. Even if their sole concern was the standing and reputation of the Metropolitan Police, they couldn't have got it worse last night if they had tried.
    Also I doubt the anti COVID protestors tried to work with the Met to make sure that the vigil was orderly and socially distanced.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    edited March 2021

    tlg86 said:

    Andrew Marr show reporting vigils were conducted peacefully across the UK yesterday in contrast to the mayhem caused by the MET

    Were there not vigils in other parts of London?
    Not that I'm aware of (obvs could be wrong). I looked at the Reclaim the Streets website to see if there was one I could attend (before the court decision cancelled them) and could only see the one in London (the others that I saw in the south were Dorking and Brighton).
    Around 9 were scheduled around London including one 5 minutes walk from me they were cancelled and instead people placed flowers and socially distanced during the day. Unfortunately Clapham was the only site that saw confrontation as it was the only site where folk chose to assemble after dark.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
    You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.

    You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.

    As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
    He is a bit crap though isn't he?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
    You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.

    You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.

    As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
    He is a bit crap though isn't he?
    Indeed and, IMO, a racist.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    Male officers in the Metropolitan Police. Dragging women off into the dark. At a vigil to a woman dragged off in the dark, murdered and seemingly dismembered. With a male officer in the Metropolitan Police charged with her abduction and murder.

    Wasn't the smartest rules of engagement was it?

    I'm sorry but the context really shouldn't be important. As I said last night the police should be consistent. Not one set of rules for one type of demo and a different set of rules for another.
    They have different sets of rules for every demo. Because every demo is different. There are many demonstrations (which after all are just people gathering to express an opinion - with varying degrees of anger) which are policed with an extremely light touch. The police make these decisions all the time and treat every demonstration as a unique event to be handled in a unique way. Last night they just chose the wrong way.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,620
    Gadfly said:

    ydoethur said:

    I am getting puzzled now. If there were an issue with blood clotting associated with AZN, you would expect it to have become a real issue here given how widely we're using it. Yet all the cases seem to be in Europe.

    Is the problem perhaps not the vaccine but issues at the plants in the EU?

    Although as they're sending vaccine to the UK as well, even that wouldn't explain it.

    Or is it just somebody finding random events and trying to posit a causal link from them?
    Hopefully it has nothing to do with AZN being distributed on a not for profit basis.
    I read an article the other day that stated that targeted messaging on social media is being used to attack vaccines in Europe - aimed at senior politicians and decision makers. It was also hitting their immediate families as well - though it wasn't clear whether this was a byproduct of "locality".

    The point was that a lot of people are swimming in a sea of anti-vax garbage. Which may be filtering through to their decision making.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly according to the latest Comres poll last week, the SNP have already fallen below 50% on the constituency vote

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1369936341404942341?s=20

    Does a 3% swing SNP --> Conservative actually shift many seats?
    Perthshire South and Kinrosshire and Edinburgh Pentlands would go from SNP to Conservative on a 3% swing on the Holyrood constituency vote
    So, no.
    A loss of 2 seats would probably not only ensure no SNP majority at Holyrood but as in different regions would almost certainly lead to a net loss of SNP seats in May.

    A net loss of SNP seats and no majority would be as damaging to Sturgeon as the net loss of Tory seats and no majority was to May in 2017
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,965
    edited March 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Probably missed bigger value here, but there’s a large pile of 1.07 to lay Sadiq Khan as next mayor of London. If he doesn’t fire Cressida Dick today, he really needs to be considering his own position.

    I expect, of course, that neither will happen, and there’s a good chance of him being challenged from the left by a Reform the Met candidate.

    Sadiq Khan doesn't have the power to fire the Met Commissioner, the Commissioner is appointed by the Home Secretary.

    The best Khan can do is express a lack of confidence in Dick and hope she does an Ian Blair and hope she falls on her sword

    So if you want Dick sacked you need Johnson and Patel to use their power.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Sandpit said:

    Probably missed bigger value here, but there’s a large pile of 1.07 to lay Sadiq Khan as next mayor of London. If he doesn’t fire Cressida Dick today, he really needs to be considering his own position.

    I expect, of course, that neither will happen, and there’s a good chance of him being challenged from the left by a Reform the Met candidate.

    Sadiq Khan doesn't have the power to fire the Met Commissioner, the Commissioner is appointed by the Home Secretary.

    The best Khan can do is express a lack of confidence in Dick and hope she does an Ian Blair and hope she falls on her sword

    So if you want Dick sacked you need Johnson and Patel to use their power.
    Yes, Boris did well to get rid of Blair. I don't think Sadiq has got the same balls to do it and will instead hope Priti does the job for him.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287
    Off thread.. couple of things.. in the Times today.. woman says were just having a vigil ..properly . socially distanced.. alongside picture where there was no social distancing whatsoever....

    Secondly.. love the Palace's response today.. independent inquiry whilst mentioning two staff hounded out.. a clear warning that our ordure is much more heavy than anything you can fling in our direction.. provable independent information rather than smear and innuendo.....

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited March 2021
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
    Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.

    You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
    His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
    Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
    What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
    By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
    So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.

    You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
    Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.

    Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
    You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.

    You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.

    As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
    I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,084
    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
    *Building* homes for £100k is a piece of pie, especially if you are doing 100k of them. The issue is how to do the land.

    He's also talked about shared ownership. The implication is that 100k will be the price for a share.

    The question is doing the whole project in one term.


    Not in London. The land cost will be higher than that.
    Yes - so the £100k only has meaning if build means *build*, separate from buying land.

    They would probably need to be ... leasehold or some other arrangement. :smile:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
    Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.

    You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
    What are you going on about? The only way to make London affordable is to bring house prices down and let wages catch up. That means turning private landlords into forced sellers. Bailey is a clueless, racist numpty.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited March 2021
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
    Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.

    You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
    I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.

    You really are detached from reality.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly according to the latest Comres poll last week, the SNP have already fallen below 50% on the constituency vote

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1369936341404942341?s=20

    Does a 3% swing SNP --> Conservative actually shift many seats?
    Perthshire South and Kinrosshire and Edinburgh Pentlands would go from SNP to Conservative on a 3% swing on the Holyrood constituency vote
    So, no.
    A loss of 2 seats would probably not only ensure no SNP majority at Holyrood but as in different regions would almost certainly lead to a net loss of SNP seats in May.

    A net loss of SNP seats and no majority would be as damaging to Sturgeon as the net loss of Tory seats and no majority was to May in 2017
    I still say 2 isn't 'many'.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,620

    Was stopped twice in my youth. Both late at night, and both times as I was returning from romantic assignations. The first time I was on a moped driving home from visiting my girl-friend and I was waved down and questioned. Nothing unpleasant, just a nuisance. The second time I was walking back to my lodgings from my fiancée's home; she lived 250 miles away from my home, so I got a job local to her and found a house where they 'took in young gentlemen and did for them'. As happened up until about the 70's.
    Anyway my laundry always went in with my fiancée's family wash, and I was taking the current load 'home' late one evening when a policeman, who clearly had nothing better to do, stopped me, chatted for a bit about what I was doing, then made me unpack the whole bagful of lovingly ironed clean clothes,
    Then a police whistle sounded in the distance and he ran off towards it.

    Used to get stopped at Tower Hill semi-regularly.

    At the tube station they had an anti-knife stop and search. This was in the 90s, and they were evidently trying to normalise the stop numbers.

    On one side a bored copper patted down a queue of commuters in suits. If I'd being carrying a Boyes .55 he might have found it. Might.

    A few yards away a half dozen officers would surround a young black gentlemen and check everything down to the lint in his pockets....

    I kept thinking of the metal detector scene in Airplane.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCkagYixpuc
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
    He is a moron.

    Although he’d probably still be smarter than the average Tory backbencher, and many Cabinet Members too.

    Interesting life experience; the Tories should have found him a safe seat a long time ago instead of exposing him to a campaign he’s not fit for.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
    His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
    Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
    What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
    By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
    So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.

    You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
    Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.

    Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
    So still fitting the evidence to your wrong 'uns then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    So 75% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year, a plurality do not want indyref2 for the next few years and the rest do not want indyref2 for up to 5 years ie until 2026 and well past the next UK general election in 2024
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Off thread.. couple of things.. in the Times today.. woman says were just having a vigil ..properly . socially distanced.. alongside picture where there was no social distancing whatsoever....

    Secondly.. love the Palace's response today.. independent inquiry whilst mentioning two staff hounded out.. a clear warning that our ordure is much more heavy than anything you can fling in our direction.. provable independent information rather than smear and innuendo.....

    That’s one of the frustrating parts, Clapham Common is massive so why are they all squashed up against each other? Does little for public support of their aims. As proved during the day and elsewhere you can make your voice heard and comply with covid rules. This goes for other protesters and football fans recently Im afraid.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
    His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
    Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
    What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
    By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
    So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.

    You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
    Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.

    Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
    You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,342
    Those figures feel well short of the sort of settled conviction there would need to be, both about holding a ref and about the outcome, before the SNP can take much comfort. A number of people will support one because they support voting generally, and others because they hope to get rid of the issue by another No vote.

    The number of hurdles in the way of Scottish independence is formidably large. I doubt if it's more than a 10/1 chance in the next 10 years.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
    His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
    Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
    What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
    By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
    So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.

    You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
    Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.

    Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
    You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
    He is making a lot of bad faith accusations.
    Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited March 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
    Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.

    I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
    Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks.
    https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
    She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
    Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.

    Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
    I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.

    I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
    Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
    You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.

    You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.

    As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
    I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
    Except all of those went to private school and most of them to Eton, except Sunak, who went to Winchester and Cleverley who went to the private Colfe's school. So that does not dispute the point
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    edited March 2021
    Brom said:

    Off thread.. couple of things.. in the Times today.. woman says were just having a vigil ..properly . socially distanced.. alongside picture where there was no social distancing whatsoever....

    Secondly.. love the Palace's response today.. independent inquiry whilst mentioning two staff hounded out.. a clear warning that our ordure is much more heavy than anything you can fling in our direction.. provable independent information rather than smear and innuendo.....

    That’s one of the frustrating parts, Clapham Common is massive so why are they all squashed up against each other? Does little for public support of their aims. As proved during the day and elsewhere you can make your voice heard and comply with covid rules. This goes for other protesters and football fans recently Im afraid.
    Well it depends who you believe. The claim - which appears to be backed up by the picture evidence - is that they were forced into the smaller space by the police.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    What do we know of those arrested at the demo in London - were they women peacefully holding a vigil for their friend, or some of the more aggressive SWP/ER types who we know went spoiling for a fight with police at the anti-racism protests last year?

    You'll be saying it was Antifa next.......
    I’m not saying anything. I’m asking because I genuinely don’t know. Some reports are of police kettling peaceful protestors, while there is a history of anarchist groups attaching themselves to peaceful protests in London.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    MaxPB said:

    Brom said:

    I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.

    The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.

    The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.

    My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
    His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
    Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
    What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
    By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
    So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.

    You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
    Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.

    Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
    You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
    He is making a lot of bad faith accusations.
    Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
    He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
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