Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
Except all of those went to private school and most of them to Eton, except Sunak, who went to Winchester and Cleverly who went to the private Colfe's school. So that does not dispute the point
As I said I had no idea what schools they went to, it is an obsession of yours. If most BAME Tory MPs went to a small range of schools that is a Tory selection problem. As a voter I judge the candidates by credibility, and those four are more capable than most Tory MPs, regardless of their background.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Does a 3% swing SNP --> Conservative actually shift many seats?
Perthshire South and Kinrosshire and Edinburgh Pentlands would go from SNP to Conservative on a 3% swing on the Holyrood constituency vote
So, no.
A loss of 2 seats would probably not only ensure no SNP majority at Holyrood but as in different regions would almost certainly lead to a net loss of SNP seats in May.
A net loss of SNP seats and no majority would be as damaging to Sturgeon as the net loss of Tory seats and no majority was to May in 2017
I still say 2 isn't 'many'.
It would be enough to humiliate Sturgeon if it led to a net loss of SNP seats, which is likely as the loss of those 2 Holyrood constituencies in different regions would be unlikely to be compensated for by gains for the SNP on the list
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
What are you going on about? The only way to make London affordable is to bring house prices down and let wages catch up. That means turning private landlords into forced sellers. Bailey is a clueless, racist numpty.
Building more affordable housing would help, not just forcing all London landlords to sell their properties which would still be expensive anyway
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.
You really are detached from reality.
The average salary in London is £38k not £25k and higher still for graduates, most city workers living in London will be on well over £50k, many on £100k+
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Yup, all I've seen from the Met is one anonymous third hand account from a police officer against numerous videos of the police using the kettle and forcing the people at the vigil into a much smaller space and making a socially distanced event impossible.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Yup, all I've seen from the Met is one anonymous third hand account from a police officer against numerous videos of the police using the kettle and forcing the people at the vigil into a much smaller space and making a socially distanced event impossible.
To be scrupulously fair, We do also have the AC claim that the police moved in to protect the demonstrators’ personal safety.
Does a 3% swing SNP --> Conservative actually shift many seats?
Perthshire South and Kinrosshire and Edinburgh Pentlands would go from SNP to Conservative on a 3% swing on the Holyrood constituency vote
So, no.
A loss of 2 seats would probably not only ensure no SNP majority at Holyrood but as in different regions would almost certainly lead to a net loss of SNP seats in May.
A net loss of SNP seats and no majority would be as damaging to Sturgeon as the net loss of Tory seats and no majority was to May in 2017
I still say 2 isn't 'many'.
It would be enough to humiliate Sturgeon if it led to a net loss of SNP seats, which is likely as the loss of those 2 Holyrood constituencies in different regions would be unlikely to be compensated for by gains for the SNP on the list
If she suffers a net loss of two seats after 14 years in government and while mired in the worst scandal to hit a major government system in this country since the death of David Kelly I don't think we can say she has been 'humiliated.'
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
Except all of those went to private school and most of them to Eton, except Sunak, who went to Winchester and Cleverly who went to the private Colfe's school. So that does not dispute the point
As I said I had no idea what schools they went to, it is an obsession of yours. If most BAME Tory MPs went to a small range of schools that is a Tory selection problem. As a voter I judge the candidates by credibility, and those four are more capable than most Tory MPs, regardless of their background.
They all went to independent schools, unlike Bailey (though most Tory MPs now went to state schools).
No coincidence I would suggest given your distaste for Bailey who is not only state educated but also generally more socially conservative than them
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Yup, all I've seen from the Met is one anonymous third hand account from a police officer against numerous videos of the police using the kettle and forcing the people at the vigil into a much smaller space and making a socially distanced event impossible.
To be scrupulously fair, We do also have the AC claim that the police moved in to protect the demonstrators’ personal safety.
So 75% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year, a plurality do not want indyref2 for the next few years and the rest do not want indyref2 for up to 5 years ie until 2026 and well past the next UK general election in 2024
Nothing there to worry Boris.....
The Royal Commission won't report until after the General Election anyway.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.
You really are detached from reality.
The average salary in London is £38k not £25k and higher still for graduates, most city workers living in London will be on well over £50k, many on £100k+
Who said anything about average salary? Besides, is that mean or medium?
Almost all of my London friends are graduates and they are not earning significantly massive sums.
My "25k" comment was not supposed to be an authoriative value, I was simply making a point. But besides, a vast majority of those living in London are not "City high flyers" even amongst graduates. You're simply misinterpreting statistics as usual.
When I first graduated I was earning 25k in Northumberland compared to my London friends earning around the same, if not a little more. My standard of living was massively, massively better.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
The transition from Tory toff to anti police activist is complete lol
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
As I live in Scotland and not London I wouldn't vote for any of them. I do though love how in Tory land the alternative to Bailey is an old Etonian. You don't have any other members of the party?
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
I was fairly shocked she wasn't hurriedly found a pretext to be pensioned off.
But I was appalled when she became Commissioner.
I just don't think she's got the necessary judgement* and it's showing in the way the force is disintegrating in front of our eyes. A strong commissioner would not have overseen this mess.
*which is not to ignore the fact that in the de Menezes case, there was a difficult call to be made, one that was wrong but was understandable. It's the coverup afterwards that bugs me. Somebody who connived at that should not be in a position of authority.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
I would be delighted to see Khan on the wrong end of the biggest shock in domestic politics as she replaces him. Sadly, he will still get the benefit of all those harvested votes, with no consideration of whether or not he is a complete waste of space.....
I'm curious as to what you mean by "harvested votes"? Would you use the same expression for the loyal shire Tory vote in places like Devon, or is it something specific to London?
It is something that happens in communities of south Asian heritage. If we had south Asian communities in Devon, it would no doubt happen here too.
However, round here, the local "community leaders" are more interested in showing off their latest inappropriately large tractors. And their wives make their own minds up on how they vote.
Presumably they use their tractors to, erm, harvest their votes.
I'm aware that there have been some issues in Tower Hamlets, but I'd be interested in concrete evidence that Khan's anticipated victory will in any way be influenced by significant harvesting of South Asian heritage votes. The idea that people of that heritage would let others decide their vote is, at best, patronising.
The idea that people of that heritage don't let others decide their vote - especially the women - is, at best, naive.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Agreed.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fine, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
Except all of those went to private school and most of them to Eton, except Sunak, who went to Winchester and Cleverly who went to the private Colfe's school. So that does not dispute the point
As I said I had no idea what schools they went to, it is an obsession of yours. If most BAME Tory MPs went to a small range of schools that is a Tory selection problem. As a voter I judge the candidates by credibility, and those four are more capable than most Tory MPs, regardless of their background.
They all went to independent schools, unlike Bailey (though most Tory MPs now went to state schools).
No coincidence I would suggest given your distaste for Bailey who is not only state educated but also generally more socially conservative than them
I went to a state school myself as did most of my friends, and would be delighted to see more state school educated politicians. But individual candidates have to be capable for a position such as Mayor of London. The powers of the job are generally overestimated but it is still a role of great responsibility. Bailey is simply not credible or capable.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Does make you wonder if maybe the terrorists should have taken some of the blame alongside Dick...
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Was she fully responsible?
I was reading the Wiki article on this yesterday and the key criticism seems to be lack of comms between three surveillance officers who were trailing de Menezes, and three armed officers who were called in.
I wasn’t sure if Dick led both teams.
Also, she wasn’t to blame (that I know of) for the smears or attempts to prevent and interfere with the IPCC. That was Sir Ian Blair.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.
You really are detached from reality.
The average salary in London is £38k not £25k and higher still for graduates, most city workers living in London will be on well over £50k, many on £100k+
Who said anything about average salary? Besides, is that mean or medium?
Almost all of my London friends are graduates and they are not earning significantly massive sums.
My "25k" comment was not supposed to be an authoriative value, I was simply making a point. But besides, a vast majority of those living in London are not "City high flyers" even amongst graduates. You're simply misinterpreting statistics as usual.
When I first graduated I was earning 25k in Northumberland compared to my London friends earning around the same, if not a little more. My standard of living was massively, massively better.
You suggested the average graduate salary in London was £25k, which is ludicrous given the average graduate trainee in corporate law or the average graduate starting at an investment bank in London would be on around £50k at least.
Even those not working in the City would still be earning more than they do in the North, housing of course is significantly cheaper in the North yes which is the tradeoff you make for living in London but also the reason why London has the most need for more affordable housing as Bailey is prioritising
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Agreed.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fired, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
But no, they couldn't admit they were wrong.
Do you mean 'fine' rather than 'fired?'
I don't think they would have been fired for an honest if extremely tragic mistake.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
Except all of those went to private school and most of them to Eton, except Sunak, who went to Winchester and Cleverly who went to the private Colfe's school. So that does not dispute the point
As I said I had no idea what schools they went to, it is an obsession of yours. If most BAME Tory MPs went to a small range of schools that is a Tory selection problem. As a voter I judge the candidates by credibility, and those four are more capable than most Tory MPs, regardless of their background.
They all went to independent schools, unlike Bailey (though most Tory MPs now went to state schools).
No coincidence I would suggest given your distaste for Bailey who is not only state educated but also generally more socially conservative than them
I went to a state school myself as did most of my friends, and would be delighted to see more state school educated politicians. But individual candidates have to be capable for a position such as Mayor of London. The powers of the job are generally overestimated but it is still a role of great responsibility. Bailey is simply not credible or capable.
The problems with state school politicians is the ones that play their state school hands the loudest (Angela Rayner) are often the worst. And yes Shaun Bailey is rubbish, arguably even worse than Khan.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Agreed.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fired, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
But no, they couldn't admit they were wrong.
And they're repeating that now. Instead of admitting they fucked up they're saying they kettled and arrested these people for their own safety. A few rubes will buy it but the majority will look on in despair.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.
You really are detached from reality.
The average salary in London is £38k not £25k and higher still for graduates, most city workers living in London will be on well over £50k, many on £100k+
Who said anything about average salary? Besides, is that mean or medium?
Almost all of my London friends are graduates and they are not earning significantly massive sums.
My "25k" comment was not supposed to be an authoriative value, I was simply making a point. But besides, a vast majority of those living in London are not "City high flyers" even amongst graduates. You're simply misinterpreting statistics as usual.
When I first graduated I was earning 25k in Northumberland compared to my London friends earning around the same, if not a little more. My standard of living was massively, massively better.
You suggested the average graduate salary in London was £25k, which is ludicrous given the average graduate trainee in corporate law or the average graduate starting at an investment bank in London would be on around £50k at least.
Even those not working in the City would still be earning more than they do in the North, housing of course is significantly cheaper in the North yes which is the tradeoff you make for living in London but also the reason why London has the most need for more affordable housing as Bailey is prioritising
Do you think that a graduate trainee in corporate law is the norm or something?
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
As I live in Scotland and not London I wouldn't vote for any of them. I do though love how in Tory land the alternative to Bailey is an old Etonian. You don't have any other members of the party?
Given the leader of the Labour Party went to private school himself it is hardly just a Tory issue.
No problem with good independent school products but no reason for the snobbishness around Bailey just because he is a social conservative and state and non Oxbridge educated
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.
You really are detached from reality.
The average salary in London is £38k not £25k and higher still for graduates, most city workers living in London will be on well over £50k, many on £100k+
Who said anything about average salary? Besides, is that mean or medium?
Almost all of my London friends are graduates and they are not earning significantly massive sums.
My "25k" comment was not supposed to be an authoriative value, I was simply making a point. But besides, a vast majority of those living in London are not "City high flyers" even amongst graduates. You're simply misinterpreting statistics as usual.
When I first graduated I was earning 25k in Northumberland compared to my London friends earning around the same, if not a little more. My standard of living was massively, massively better.
You suggested the average graduate salary in London was £25k, which is ludicrous given the average graduate trainee in corporate law or the average graduate starting at an investment bank in London would be on around £50k at least.
Even those not working in the City would still be earning more than they do in the North, housing of course is significantly cheaper in the North yes which is the tradeoff you make for living in London but also the reason why London has the most need for more affordable housing as Bailey is prioritising
The average graduate position in wealth management is around £28-32k depending on the fund. You've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Agreed.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fired, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
But no, they couldn't admit they were wrong.
And they're repeating that now. Instead of admitting they fucked up they're saying they kettled and arrested these people for their own safety. A few rubes will buy it but the majority will look on in despair.
Just admit you hate the police and something happened in your past that stopped you trusting them. Would make it easier for the rest of us.
Once a vaccination program has gained critical mass, and ours has by vaccinating ~ 90%+ of over 65s - so everyone's parents or grandparents are now vaccinated the side effect/scare stories don't resonate because it goes against people's loved ones experience. That's not where Europe is so people are more worried about the vaccinations.
It’s not about whether it ‘resonates’; it’s whether these reports of clotting are side effects at all, or merely coincidence. For now there is no evidence that it is the former.
The issue is the behaviour of medical authorities, who ought to be rather more dispassionate than the general populace.
The transition from Tory toff to anti police activist is complete lol
I know you're not very bright, but I've been consistently very dubious about the police. It crystalised in 2002 when I lived and worked in London and I hurt my knee and a black friend for three weeks drove me to work and home, and in that three week period he was stopped six times, his crime, being black and driving a nice car.
It isn't anti police to point out that the police have a history of lying and covering up.
How about Hillsborough, how about the time they tried to fit up a cabinet minister.
Doesn't it worry you that they thought they could frame a cabinet with impunity?
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
As I live in Scotland and not London I wouldn't vote for any of them. I do though love how in Tory land the alternative to Bailey is an old Etonian. You don't have any other members of the party?
Given the leader of the Labour Party went to private school himself it is hardly just a Tory issue.
No problem with good independent school products but no reason for the snobbishness around Bailey just because he is a social conservative and state and non Oxbridge educated
It was a state school when he went there. Exactly how his place was funded when it went private remains unclear but it is likely he got a scholarship. I think it's a bit unfair to say he was 'privately educated.'
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Was she fully responsible?
I was reading the Wiki article on this yesterday and the key criticism seems to be lack of comms between three surveillance officers who were trailing de Menezes, and three armed officers who were called in.
I wasn’t sure if Dick led both teams.
Also, she wasn’t to blame (that I know of) for the smears or attempts to prevent and interfere with the IPCC. That was Sir Ian Blair.
Dick was “Gold Command” that day. It was her decision to take the shot.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Does make you wonder if maybe the terrorists should have taken some of the blame alongside Dick...
What terrorists? Jean Charles de Menezes wasn't a terrorist, once again you're fitting the evidence to the suspect. The Met did this and they killed an innocent person.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
The transition from Tory toff to anti police activist is complete lol
And there, in a nutshell, is your problem. You are more interested in the politics of this than in the facts. You defend the police because they are the police rather than judging them on their actions.
It really should say something to you that so many people, from so many different political perspectives, are united in their view of this whilst you have aligned yourself with a very few anti-lockdown nutters who are using this as an excuse to say 'I told you so'.
The Met police, very sadly, have a recent history as an organisation of covering up their mistakes by almost any means possible. They also have a history of making some very bad operational decisions. As such they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt in this situation and should be judged on the decisions they made and the actions they took rather than on the fact they 'have a tough job to do'.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Agreed.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fired, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
But no, they couldn't admit they were wrong.
Do you mean 'fine' rather than 'fired?'
I don't think they would have been fired for an honest if extremely tragic mistake.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
Except all of those went to private school and most of them to Eton, except Sunak, who went to Winchester and Cleverley who went to the private Colfe's school. So that does not dispute the point
Its all true. All of the people who vote for Khan, the son of a bus driver, will be doing so because they are snobs unwilling to vote for a BAME candidate from a working class background.
If you think about it, not voting for Shaun Bailey is a vote for white Etonian privilege in the form of Sadiq Khan. A disgrace.
My point stands absolutely, London is divided between wealthy liberal homeowners and renters who tend to vote Labour, the left are happy to keep it that way, affordable new housing to buy in London is not a priority for them
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.
You really are detached from reality.
The average salary in London is £38k not £25k and higher still for graduates, most city workers living in London will be on well over £50k, many on £100k+
Who said anything about average salary? Besides, is that mean or medium?
Almost all of my London friends are graduates and they are not earning significantly massive sums.
My "25k" comment was not supposed to be an authoriative value, I was simply making a point. But besides, a vast majority of those living in London are not "City high flyers" even amongst graduates. You're simply misinterpreting statistics as usual.
When I first graduated I was earning 25k in Northumberland compared to my London friends earning around the same, if not a little more. My standard of living was massively, massively better.
You suggested the average graduate salary in London was £25k, which is ludicrous given the average graduate trainee in corporate law or the average graduate starting at an investment bank in London would be on around £50k at least.
Even those not working in the City would still be earning more than they do in the North, housing of course is significantly cheaper in the North yes which is the tradeoff you make for living in London but also the reason why London has the most need for more affordable housing as Bailey is prioritising
The average graduate position in wealth management is around £28-32k depending on the fund. You've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
'For example, the Magic Circle - comprised of London's five most prestigious law firms - currently offer first year trainees salaries in the region of £45,000 to £48,000. However, it's the USA-based firms (usually found in London) that pay the most impressive wages. For example, Kirkland & Ellis pay first-year trainee solicitors £50,000, while White & Case offer a salary of £48,000. These figures rise to £55,000 and £53,000 respectively in the second year.'
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Agreed.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fired, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
But no, they couldn't admit they were wrong.
And they're repeating that now. Instead of admitting they fucked up they're saying they kettled and arrested these people for their own safety. A few rubes will buy it but the majority will look on in despair.
Just admit you hate the police and something happened in your past that stopped you trusting them. Would make it easier for the rest of us.
Scraping the barrel with the (evidence free) ad hom.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
Except all of those went to private school and most of them to Eton, except Sunak, who went to Winchester and Cleverley who went to the private Colfe's school. So that does not dispute the point
So one can only reach the top echelons of the Tory Party if one was privately educated? Is that what you're saying?
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Agreed.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fired, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
But no, they couldn't admit they were wrong.
And they're repeating that now. Instead of admitting they fucked up they're saying they kettled and arrested these people for their own safety. A few rubes will buy it but the majority will look on in despair.
Just admit you hate the police and something happened in your past that stopped you trusting them. Would make it easier for the rest of us.
So you're reduced to personal attacks, another tactic from the Met playbook. You've lost it mate. Have a think about what it is you're supporting. The police kettled a socially distanced vigil for a girl who was kidnapped, raped and murdered, a serving Met police officer has been charged with the crime and you're defending the police tactics.
The transition from Tory toff to anti police activist is complete lol
I know you're not very bright, but I've been consistently very dubious about the police. It crystalised in 2002 when I lived and worked in London and I hurt my knee and a black friend for three weeks drove me to work and home, and in that three week period he was stopped six times, his crime, being black and driving a nice car.
It isn't anti police to point out that the police have a history of lying and covering up.
How about Hillsborough, how about the time they tried to fit up a cabinet minister.
Doesn't it worry you that they thought they could frame a cabinet with impunity?
Jesus Christ, ‘black friend’ zero self awareness. I mean being a plastic Liverpool fan is bad enough without that!
Citing events from decades ago too. I’m sure you hate doctors too thanks to Harold Shipman.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.
You really are detached from reality.
The average salary in London is £38k not £25k and higher still for graduates, most city workers living in London will be on well over £50k, many on £100k+
Who said anything about average salary? Besides, is that mean or medium?
Almost all of my London friends are graduates and they are not earning significantly massive sums.
My "25k" comment was not supposed to be an authoriative value, I was simply making a point. But besides, a vast majority of those living in London are not "City high flyers" even amongst graduates. You're simply misinterpreting statistics as usual.
When I first graduated I was earning 25k in Northumberland compared to my London friends earning around the same, if not a little more. My standard of living was massively, massively better.
You suggested the average graduate salary in London was £25k, which is ludicrous given the average graduate trainee in corporate law or the average graduate starting at an investment bank in London would be on around £50k at least.
Even those not working in the City would still be earning more than they do in the North, housing of course is significantly cheaper in the North yes which is the tradeoff you make for living in London but also the reason why London has the most need for more affordable housing as Bailey is prioritising
The average graduate position in wealth management is around £28-32k depending on the fund. You've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
'For example, the Magic Circle - comprised of London's five most prestigious law firms - currently offer first year trainees salaries in the region of £45,000 to £48,000. However, it's the USA-based firms (usually found in London) that pay the most impressive wages. For example, Kirkland & Ellis pay first-year trainee solicitors £50,000, while White & Case offer a salary of £48,000. These figures rise to £55,000 and £53,000 respectively in the second year.' That is just first year
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
As I live in Scotland and not London I wouldn't vote for any of them. I do though love how in Tory land the alternative to Bailey is an old Etonian. You don't have any other members of the party?
Given the leader of the Labour Party went to private school himself it is hardly just a Tory issue.
No problem with good independent school products but no reason for the snobbishness around Bailey just because he is a social conservative and state and non Oxbridge educated
The problem with Bailey is that he is a bad candidate. He will get the lowest Tory vote in the history of London Mayoral elections.
Good to see the anti police and covid deniers have finally joined forces.
We don't need to comment on the joining of forces of white male misogynists and morons. Happened a long time ago.
If only these uppity women had stayed home. It isn't safe for women to walk the streets like a man. They should be home doing crochet or being slapped by their husband.
My point stands absolutely, London is divided between wealthy liberal homeowners and renters who tend to vote Labour, the left are happy to keep it that way, affordable new housing to buy in London is not a priority for them
Who is this monolithic "the left"? London graduate renters, who overwhelmingly vote Labour, have no interest in keeping the status quo. They are some of the biggest supporters of affordable housing because they literally want to buy a house themselves.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
Except all of those went to private school and most of them to Eton, except Sunak, who went to Winchester and Cleverley who went to the private Colfe's school. So that does not dispute the point
Its all true. All of the people who vote for Khan, the son of a bus driver, will be doing so because they are snobs unwilling to vote for a BAME candidate from a working class background.
If you think about it, not voting for Shaun Bailey is a vote for white Etonian privilege in the form of Sadiq Khan. A disgrace.
It is fine for Khan as he is a left liberal and ex solicitor, it is not for Bailey as he is a social conservative non professional for the left liberal London elite
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Wasn't Ms Dick the senior officer involved in that case?
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Agreed.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fired, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
But no, they couldn't admit they were wrong.
And they're repeating that now. Instead of admitting they fucked up they're saying they kettled and arrested these people for their own safety. A few rubes will buy it but the majority will look on in despair.
Just admit you hate the police and something happened in your past that stopped you trusting them. Would make it easier for the rest of us.
So you're reduced to personal attacks, another tactic from the Met playbook. You've lost it mate. Have a think about what it is you're supporting. The police kettled a socially distanced vigil for a girl who was kidnapped, raped and murdered, a serving Met police officer has been charged with the crime and you're defending the police tactics.
One guy from the Met is a murderer, all police are bad. It’s ridiculous. Not all Muslims are bad because some are terrorists, should they avoid central London landmarks too?
Enforcing the law is fair enough to me, it’s the laws you should have an issue with rather than the individuals.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.
You really are detached from reality.
The average salary in London is £38k not £25k and higher still for graduates, most city workers living in London will be on well over £50k, many on £100k+
Who said anything about average salary? Besides, is that mean or medium?
Almost all of my London friends are graduates and they are not earning significantly massive sums.
My "25k" comment was not supposed to be an authoriative value, I was simply making a point. But besides, a vast majority of those living in London are not "City high flyers" even amongst graduates. You're simply misinterpreting statistics as usual.
When I first graduated I was earning 25k in Northumberland compared to my London friends earning around the same, if not a little more. My standard of living was massively, massively better.
You suggested the average graduate salary in London was £25k, which is ludicrous given the average graduate trainee in corporate law or the average graduate starting at an investment bank in London would be on around £50k at least.
Even those not working in the City would still be earning more than they do in the North, housing of course is significantly cheaper in the North yes which is the tradeoff you make for living in London but also the reason why London has the most need for more affordable housing as Bailey is prioritising
The average graduate position in wealth management is around £28-32k depending on the fund. You've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
'For example, the Magic Circle - comprised of London's five most prestigious law firms - currently offer first year trainees salaries in the region of £45,000 to £48,000. However, it's the USA-based firms (usually found in London) that pay the most impressive wages. For example, Kirkland & Ellis pay first-year trainee solicitors £50,000, while White & Case offer a salary of £48,000. These figures rise to £55,000 and £53,000 respectively in the second year.' That is just first year
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
Except all of those went to private school and most of them to Eton, except Sunak, who went to Winchester and Cleverley who went to the private Colfe's school. So that does not dispute the point
So one can only reach the top echelons of the Tory Party if one was privately educated? Is that what you're saying?
In noneoftheabove's eyes yes, only independent school educated liberal Tories are acceptable, not state educated social conservative Tories
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.
You really are detached from reality.
The average salary in London is £38k not £25k and higher still for graduates, most city workers living in London will be on well over £50k, many on £100k+
Who said anything about average salary? Besides, is that mean or medium?
Almost all of my London friends are graduates and they are not earning significantly massive sums.
My "25k" comment was not supposed to be an authoriative value, I was simply making a point. But besides, a vast majority of those living in London are not "City high flyers" even amongst graduates. You're simply misinterpreting statistics as usual.
When I first graduated I was earning 25k in Northumberland compared to my London friends earning around the same, if not a little more. My standard of living was massively, massively better.
You suggested the average graduate salary in London was £25k, which is ludicrous given the average graduate trainee in corporate law or the average graduate starting at an investment bank in London would be on around £50k at least.
Even those not working in the City would still be earning more than they do in the North, housing of course is significantly cheaper in the North yes which is the tradeoff you make for living in London but also the reason why London has the most need for more affordable housing as Bailey is prioritising
The average graduate position in wealth management is around £28-32k depending on the fund. You've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
'For example, the Magic Circle - comprised of London's five most prestigious law firms - currently offer first year trainees salaries in the region of £45,000 to £48,000. However, it's the USA-based firms (usually found in London) that pay the most impressive wages. For example, Kirkland & Ellis pay first-year trainee solicitors £50,000, while White & Case offer a salary of £48,000. These figures rise to £55,000 and £53,000 respectively in the second year.' That is just first year
My point stands absolutely, London is divided between wealthy liberal homeowners and renters who tend to vote Labour, the left are happy to keep it that way, affordable new housing to buy in London is not a priority for them
Who is this monolithic "the left"? London graduate renters, who overwhelmingly vote Labour, have no interest in keeping the status quo. They are some of the biggest supporters of affordable housing because they literally want to buy a house themselves.
I think you'll find that recent graduates overwhelmingly don't bother voting becuase no one really represents them any more.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Does make you wonder if maybe the terrorists should have taken some of the blame alongside Dick...
What terrorists? Jean Charles de Menezes wasn't a terrorist, once again you're fitting the evidence to the suspect. The Met did this and they killed an innocent person.
You might not have been living in London in 2005 but the whole events arose from 7/7. Policing changed after that day in the UK and the Met were playing catch up. No chance the Brazilian lad died without the bus and tube bombings.
My point stands absolutely, London is divided between wealthy liberal homeowners and renters who tend to vote Labour, the left are happy to keep it that way, affordable new housing to buy in London is not a priority for them
Who is this monolithic "the left"? London graduate renters, who overwhelmingly vote Labour, have no interest in keeping the status quo. They are some of the biggest supporters of affordable housing because they literally want to buy a house themselves.
Most of them move out of London to buy or at least to the outer suburbs, Labour councils and Khan have no wish to make them home owning Tory voters
The transition from Tory toff to anti police activist is complete lol
I know you're not very bright, but I've been consistently very dubious about the police. It crystalised in 2002 when I lived and worked in London and I hurt my knee and a black friend for three weeks drove me to work and home, and in that three week period he was stopped six times, his crime, being black and driving a nice car.
It isn't anti police to point out that the police have a history of lying and covering up.
How about Hillsborough, how about the time they tried to fit up a cabinet minister.
Doesn't it worry you that they thought they could frame a cabinet with impunity?
Jesus Christ, ‘black friend’ zero self awareness. I mean being a plastic Liverpool fan is bad enough without that!
Citing events from decades ago too. I’m sure you hate doctors too thanks to Harold Shipman.
You really are oblivious to facts, they aren't one offs, I could cite many many other examples of police being rubbish and lying to cover it up from within the last five years.
Have a read of the response to Henriques report.
They remind me of the SNP government.
Scotland Yard has claimed it cannot publish the unredacted report into its handling of Operation Midland because doing so could reveal covert policing methods and help criminals evade justice.
But the author of the report, Sir Richard Henriques, has insisted there was nothing in his 491 page dossier that would compromise undercover tactics and accused the Metropolitan Police of making excuses.
The force has been coming under mounting pressure to publish the full report following last week's conviction of the fantasist Carl Beech, whose allegations led to the Met's disastrous 18-month VIP paedophile ring investigation.
My point stands absolutely, London is divided between wealthy liberal homeowners and renters who tend to vote Labour, the left are happy to keep it that way, affordable new housing to buy in London is not a priority for them
Who is this monolithic "the left"? London graduate renters, who overwhelmingly vote Labour, have no interest in keeping the status quo. They are some of the biggest supporters of affordable housing because they literally want to buy a house themselves.
Most of them move out of London to buy or at least to the outer suburbs, Labour councils and Khan have no wish to make them home owning Tory voters
What exactly are you trying to say? That there's some grand conspiracy by Labour London Boroughs to keep house prices high to stop "graduates turning into Tories"?
I mean that may be true, although I doubt it, that certainly doesn't represent the views of most Labour voters. Most Labour voters want affordable housing and sensible house prices, especially in Southern England.
Of course people move out of London to the outer suburbs precisely because it's more affordable...
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
I would be happier with Rory Stewart, but also happier with James Cleverley, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng or Rishi Sunak, along with at least hundred non minority Tory MPs as a Tory candidate. Why? I have no knowledge, and little interest, what schools they go to, but its because they come across as credible.
Except all of those went to private school and most of them to Eton, except Sunak, who went to Winchester and Cleverley who went to the private Colfe's school. So that does not dispute the point
So one can only reach the top echelons of the Tory Party if one was privately educated? Is that what you're saying?
In noneoftheabove's eyes yes, only independent school educated liberal Tories are acceptable, not state educated social conservative Tories
Yet John Major is my favourite Tory PM......
Do I prefer liberal Tories to social conservatives - Yes. Do I prefer independent school educated to state school educated - No.
I would also prefer a capable social conservative to an incapable liberal Tory if its a powerful role.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Agreed.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fired, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
But no, they couldn't admit they were wrong.
And they're repeating that now. Instead of admitting they fucked up they're saying they kettled and arrested these people for their own safety. A few rubes will buy it but the majority will look on in despair.
Just admit you hate the police and something happened in your past that stopped you trusting them. Would make it easier for the rest of us.
So you're reduced to personal attacks, another tactic from the Met playbook. You've lost it mate. Have a think about what it is you're supporting. The police kettled a socially distanced vigil for a girl who was kidnapped, raped and murdered, a serving Met police officer has been charged with the crime and you're defending the police tactics.
One guy from the Met is a murderer, all police are bad. It’s ridiculous. Not all Muslims are bad because some are terrorists, should they avoid central London landmarks too?
Enforcing the law is fair enough to me, it’s the laws you should have an issue with rather than the individuals.
When did anyone explicitly or implicitly go on a "all police are bad" line?
Its fine. You applaud male Met Police officers dragging women away into the dark from a vigil to commemorate the abduction and murder of a woman where the charge is that a male Met Police officer dragged her off in the dark.
The World would be Better if these so-called Women stayed at home, wouldn't it Brom? They can't get abducted and murdered or dragged off from a peaceful vigil if they are proper women staying home to obey their husband.
The police and the government have a public relations disaster on their hands not least because the vigil - whatever really happened, and most of us weren't there - was one which millions of rural and small town tory voting parents can imagine their own daughters attending and completely agree with them.
JHB is a classic rentagob. Park any other protests and their policing - they aren't the issue. Take a step back. Breathe.
Women - including JHB - have at one time or another feared for their safety because of the actions of men. Last week, a young woman was abducted, murdered and seemingly brutalised until what the police found was not her body but "human remains" where ID was via dental records.
The chief suspect is a serving male Metropolitan Police officer, charged with Abduction and Murder. So, in the specifics of last nights vigil, on what planet is it sensible for the Metropolitan Police to command male officers to drag women off into the darkness?
In the rather unique circumstances of this case their response at worst should have been stand off. At best to find out how many female officers they could muster to police it. Even if their sole concern was the standing and reputation of the Metropolitan Police, they couldn't have got it worse last night if they had tried.
Equally big a mistake was their inability to compromise on some arrangements for an agreed vigil
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Shaun Bailey is a moron and not a single person believes that these £100k starter homes will be possible. There's no snobbery towards him, he's just a complete idiot and people can see that he is and won't vote for him. I'm absolutely not going to vote for him despite campaigning and voting for Boris and even Zac Goldsmith despite the latter being a massive c***.
Not a single person on the liberal left who are quite happy keeping London only affordable for the graduate wealthy who tend to be liberal and for the non home owning poor who rent and tend to vote Labour believes £100k starter homes are affordable no.
You are a liberal not a social conservative like Bailey so it is equally ideological with you
I'm sure those "wealthy liberal left graduates" earning 25k and paying £1,000 per month for a room in a house are desperately against making London more affordable.
You really are detached from reality.
The average salary in London is £38k not £25k and higher still for graduates, most city workers living in London will be on well over £50k, many on £100k+
Who said anything about average salary? Besides, is that mean or medium?
Almost all of my London friends are graduates and they are not earning significantly massive sums.
My "25k" comment was not supposed to be an authoriative value, I was simply making a point. But besides, a vast majority of those living in London are not "City high flyers" even amongst graduates. You're simply misinterpreting statistics as usual.
When I first graduated I was earning 25k in Northumberland compared to my London friends earning around the same, if not a little more. My standard of living was massively, massively better.
You suggested the average graduate salary in London was £25k, which is ludicrous given the average graduate trainee in corporate law or the average graduate starting at an investment bank in London would be on around £50k at least.
Even those not working in the City would still be earning more than they do in the North, housing of course is significantly cheaper in the North yes which is the tradeoff you make for living in London but also the reason why London has the most need for more affordable housing as Bailey is prioritising
The average graduate position in wealth management is around £28-32k depending on the fund. You've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
'For example, the Magic Circle - comprised of London's five most prestigious law firms - currently offer first year trainees salaries in the region of £45,000 to £48,000. However, it's the USA-based firms (usually found in London) that pay the most impressive wages. For example, Kirkland & Ellis pay first-year trainee solicitors £50,000, while White & Case offer a salary of £48,000. These figures rise to £55,000 and £53,000 respectively in the second year.' That is just first year
But that's about 50-70 graduate positons per year among those law firms. It's not representative.
Most corporate law graduates in London will be over £40k starting salary at least
Not really, aiui the range for law is between £33-37k and that's just one industry. The average graduate salary is around £28-30k in London and the majority of grad jobs are in three industries - finance, media and tech.
Good to see the anti police and covid deniers have finally joined forces.
I hate to have to tell you (well to be fair I don't) but you are the one aligned with the covid deniers on here.
Nope, that’s you I’m afraid. Allison Pearson and Piers Corbyn are your friends. I’m against mass protests and gatherings during a pandemic, that’s a common sense view.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Does make you wonder if maybe the terrorists should have taken some of the blame alongside Dick...
What terrorists? Jean Charles de Menezes wasn't a terrorist, once again you're fitting the evidence to the suspect. The Met did this and they killed an innocent person.
You might not have been living in London in 2005 but the whole events arose from 7/7. Policing changed after that day in the UK and the Met were playing catch up. No chance the Brazilian lad died without the bus and tube bombings.
But an innocent young lad was killed in error by the Met.
No-one was held accountable, and the person in charge that day got a promotion and now leads the force.
Good to see the anti police and covid deniers have finally joined forces.
I hate to have to tell you (well to be fair I don't) but you are the one aligned with the covid deniers on here.
Nope, that’s you I’m afraid. Allison Pearson and Piers Corbyn are your friends. I’m against mass protests and gatherings during a pandemic, that’s a common sense view.
Again you wilfully ignore the fact that the only others on here who have been arguing for the police action last night are the anti-lockdown loons. It seems we need to add you to their number.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Does make you wonder if maybe the terrorists should have taken some of the blame alongside Dick...
What terrorists? Jean Charles de Menezes wasn't a terrorist, once again you're fitting the evidence to the suspect. The Met did this and they killed an innocent person.
You might not have been living in London in 2005 but the whole events arose from 7/7. Policing changed after that day in the UK and the Met were playing catch up. No chance the Brazilian lad died without the bus and tube bombings.
Lol, born and raised in London. It's why I understand why the Met aren't fit for purpose and you don't.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
As I live in Scotland and not London I wouldn't vote for any of them. I do though love how in Tory land the alternative to Bailey is an old Etonian. You don't have any other members of the party?
Given the leader of the Labour Party went to private school himself it is hardly just a Tory issue.
No problem with good independent school products but no reason for the snobbishness around Bailey just because he is a social conservative and state and non Oxbridge educated
The problem with Bailey is that he is a bad candidate. He will get the lowest Tory vote in the history of London Mayoral elections.
Khan deserves a proper contest.
The Leader of the Labour did not GO to a private school. Wkipedia says 'Starmer was born in London and raised in Surrey, where he attended the selective state Reigate Grammar School, which became an independent school while he was a student.' Presumably arrangements were made for those boys who, like Starmer, had entered the school via the 11+ but might well have had difficulty with the fees, to remain, as he did, until he'd finished the VIth Form.
Good to see the anti police and covid deniers have finally joined forces.
I hate to have to tell you (well to be fair I don't) but you are the one aligned with the covid deniers on here.
Nope, that’s you I’m afraid. Allison Pearson and Piers Corbyn are your friends. I’m against mass protests and gatherings during a pandemic, that’s a common sense view.
Brom has been reduced to: "You see that Antifa terrorist? Thats your Mum that is"
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
You mean "Alan's Snackbar!"
It;'s a little known fact that Al Qaeda, ISIS etc are really just angry at the closing of the best bacon butty shop in the world, Alan's Snackbar, just outside Edinburgh Station. Hence why they shout that all the time.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Wasn't Ms Dick the senior officer involved in that case?
You do have to wonder if part of the negative publicity about AZ is also because it's not for profit, from others whose vaccines are.
The basics of contract law are not difficult for non-lawyers to understand, so I can only assume that Dave Keating is being deliberately and wilfully misleading.
Luisa Porritt, London mayoral candidate for the LibDems, must have been given a significant boost.
Perhaps if anyone had heard of her.
I’ve had one pamphlet pushed through my door...for Brian Rose.
Luisa is an appealing candidate with attractive policies. Hopefully she'll get more exposure in the coming weeks. https://www.luisa4london.co.uk/
She’s got some interesting policies there. Homes in he heart of the city could be a real winner. She’s clearly on the saner end of the Lib Dem spectrum. It’s a shame she seems to be virtually non existent in what I have seen of the campaign nationally.
Luisa is a great candidate! Her issue is traction - does anyone care what policies the LibDems propose in London.
Its a one horse race in London. Had the Tories put up a candidate with a brain they might have been able to challenge Khan. Sadly they picked Shaun Bailey and seemingly have given him an open remit to say the most stupid and offensive things possible on a regular basis.
I think your post demonstrates there is some snobbery from the liberal left about Shaun Bailey, a BAME candidate from a working class background who spent some time homeless he is not a traditional Tory candidate but some of his policies have been very positive eg building properties for £100,000 for first time buyers in London.
I doubt any other Tory candidate would be doing much better in Lonon
Snobbery? He's an absolute fucking moron. The colour of his skin isn't the issue, its what he says that is the problem.
You would be much happier with the liberal Eton and Oxford educated, upper class white male Rory Stewart, than the BAME state school and South Bank University educated social conservative Shaun Bailey.
You would of course still not vote for Stewart anyway. If you wish to state that is not snobbery that is up to you, the rest of us will draw our own conclusions.
As I said he has put forward several positive policies, including to help more Londoners get on the housing ladder
As I live in Scotland and not London I wouldn't vote for any of them. I do though love how in Tory land the alternative to Bailey is an old Etonian. You don't have any other members of the party?
Given the leader of the Labour Party went to private school himself it is hardly just a Tory issue.
No problem with good independent school products but no reason for the snobbishness around Bailey just because he is a social conservative and state and non Oxbridge educated
The problem with Bailey is that he is a bad candidate. He will get the lowest Tory vote in the history of London Mayoral elections.
Khan deserves a proper contest.
The Leader of the Labour did not GO to a private school. Wkipedia says 'Starmer was born in London and raised in Surrey, where he attended the selective state Reigate Grammar School, which became an independent school while he was a student.' Presumably arrangements were made for those boys who, like Starmer, had entered the school via the 11+ but might well have had difficulty with the fees, to remain, as he did, until he'd finished the VIth Form.
We don't *know* that he would have been unable to pay the fees. His family were, after all, quite comfortably off.
Equally, given he is if not the flashiest politician ever clearly a very able man I have no doubt he could have got a scholarship.
We don't know and therefore I think it's unwise to be dogmatic one way or another.
I hope Yougov poll this, the media are desperate to create a police backlash, but in fairness journos were quick to judge and there’s only one ‘correct’ viewpoint to ensure you don’t get abuse and a pile on from twitter’s radical majority. The public might actually think these people have no right to be out at 10pm ignoring covid and abusing the police.
The problem might be with how inconsistently the law is applied during protests (BLM, Liverpool fans, anti and pro statue protests) but given the courts, the police, the victim’s family told these people not to go and it kicked off during a pandemic, I have no problem with the police acting the way they did. They are not a punching bag for radical feminist and the Met did at least swiftly solve this horrible crime.
The vast majority peacefully and law abidingly respected Sarah’s memory in a sensible manner.
My friend was there, her Instagram feed is a pretty accurate video take of what happened last night. I saw no evidence of what you're talking about, it was peaceful until the police decided to make it otherwise. Whatever police propaganda you're reciting is bullshit.
His view seems to be uppity women should shut up.
Shame your view is all female cops are just punchbags.
What are you banging on about? Where's your evidence for this? Just something you read in the Daily Mail comments, I'm sure.
By all means complain about the consistent application of the rules but the idea that police bad protesters good is tiresome. The public are bored of selfish folk who think their cause/party/gathering is more important than public health.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that people at the vigil were being violent or hateful towards the police then? Thought not because there isn't any.
You're doing exactly what the Met do and fitting the evidence to your suspect. You want these women to be guilty and you're making things up to try and get to that endpoint. Maybe you should actually read about what happened last night, watch some of the videos circulating social media, read some first hand accounts and then make up your mind rather than just assuming police = good, protesters = bad and then fitting evidence to it.
Perhaps you haven’t watched the same videos or listened to police officer accounts then. Maybe you chose not to read the news and see the after hours gathering was banned and Sarah’s family didn’t want it to go ahead. Perhaps you’ve ignored the statements from sisters uncut towards the police prior to the event, perhaps you are a covid denier.
Either way I fully believe the police are under incredible strain and don’t deserve the shit certain journalists and activists are throwing at them for trying to do their job. Unlike almost all other jobs they have 50% more workload as crime has not stopped and yet they’re having to police the new laws of a pandemic too. It must be exhausting and that’s before this murder case. A lot of folk are sadly far too dismissive of the police until they’re the ones who need helping.
You are certainly making a lot of unsupported and unfounded allegations on here this morning. I am afraid the police - and in particular the Met - have a record of making stuff up to cover their own failings. I see absolutely no reason why we should believe their claims here given their past record.
He is making a lot of bad faith accusations. Even his small details are wrong (he was asking what the protesting women were doing out at 10pm; it all kicked off at 8pm).
He's doing exactly what the Met do and changing the evidence to fit his suspect.
Don't forget he's also doing the smearing just like the Met did with Jean Charles de Menezes.
Do you mean to tell me that De Mendes *wasn't* a coke head, rapist, illegal immigrant who stole a newspaper and ran from the police?
Not only that, he also said Allāhu ʾakbar just before the wonderful boys in blue shot him.
The transition from Tory toff to anti police activist is complete lol
And there, in a nutshell, is your problem. You are more interested in the politics of this than in the facts. You defend the police because they are the police rather than judging them on their actions.
It really should say something to you that so many people, from so many different political perspectives, are united in their view of this whilst you have aligned yourself with a very few anti-lockdown nutters who are using this as an excuse to say 'I told you so'.
The Met police, very sadly, have a recent history as an organisation of covering up their mistakes by almost any means possible. They also have a history of making some very bad operational decisions. As such they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt in this situation and should be judged on the decisions they made and the actions they took rather than on the fact they 'have a tough job to do'.
It's the shit quality of their coverups.
Like picking (and insisting on) Dr Freddy Patel for the Tomlinson autopsy. A pathologist was was under investigation for grotesque incompetence. His speciality - pronouncing that *anything* was accidental death. He was a running joke in Private Eye....
He made such a mess of the autopsy that when a professional tried to redo it, he found that Freddy had destroyed the evidence that would probably have proved that it was accidental death....
You do have to wonder if part of the negative publicity about AZ is also because it's not for profit, from others whose vaccines are.
The basics of contract law are not difficult for non-lawyers to understand, so I can only assume that Dave Keating is being deliberately and wilfully misleading.
Well they think a moral obligation is stronger than a contractual obligation.
You do have to wonder if part of the negative publicity about AZ is also because it's not for profit, from others whose vaccines are.
The basics of contract law are not difficult for non-lawyers to understand, so I can only assume that Dave Keating is being deliberately and wilfully misleading.
Has there ever been a time that Dave Keating wasn’t being deliberately and wilfully misleading?
You do have to wonder if part of the negative publicity about AZ is also because it's not for profit, from others whose vaccines are.
The basics of contract law are not difficult for non-lawyers to understand, so I can only assume that Dave Keating is being deliberately and wilfully misleading.
Well they think a moral obligation is stronger than a contractual obligation.
I think you pointed out quite correctly that once people start talking about "moral obligations" in these situations, they haven't a leg to stand on.
JHB is a classic rentagob. Park any other protests and their policing - they aren't the issue. Take a step back. Breathe.
Women - including JHB - have at one time or another feared for their safety because of the actions of men. Last week, a young woman was abducted, murdered and seemingly brutalised until what the police found was not her body but "human remains" where ID was via dental records.
The chief suspect is a serving male Metropolitan Police officer, charged with Abduction and Murder. So, in the specifics of last nights vigil, on what planet is it sensible for the Metropolitan Police to command male officers to drag women off into the darkness?
In the rather unique circumstances of this case their response at worst should have been stand off. At best to find out how many female officers they could muster to police it. Even if their sole concern was the standing and reputation of the Metropolitan Police, they couldn't have got it worse last night if they had tried.
Equally big a mistake was their inability to compromise on some arrangements for an agreed vigil
Agreed. Women are rightly very angry and upset at this vile murder, and allowing the protest would have been easily the correct thing to do.
So 75% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year, a plurality do not want indyref2 for the next few years and the rest do not want indyref2 for up to 5 years ie until 2026 and well past the next UK general election in 2024
You always know that when the word ‘plurality’ appears in a HYUFD post, bullshittery is afoot. There are other signifiers of course..
I still find it shocking that the office responsible for that mess is now the commissioner.
Agreed.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fired, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
But no, they couldn't admit they were wrong.
And they're repeating that now. Instead of admitting they fucked up they're saying they kettled and arrested these people for their own safety. A few rubes will buy it but the majority will look on in despair.
Just admit you hate the police and something happened in your past that stopped you trusting them. Would make it easier for the rest of us.
That's seriously weak. Even if a specific incident in the past stopped someone trusting the police, the arguments raised exist regardless of whether that is the case.
The story that has made the front page only of the Sunday Times - that the government aid cuts are forcing VSO to close down most of its activities, cancel placements planned for this year and make hundreds of its staff redundant - deserves more exposure. VSO is a tremendous British success story that does great work at low cost while projecting significant soft power for the UK and our image abroad.
Absolutely disgraceful; demonstrates the shortsightedness, and indeed callousness, at the heart of this Government.
You do have to wonder if part of the negative publicity about AZ is also because it's not for profit, from others whose vaccines are.
The basics of contract law are not difficult for non-lawyers to understand, so I can only assume that Dave Keating is being deliberately and wilfully misleading.
Has there ever been a time that Dave Keating wasn’t being deliberately and wilfully misleading?
Before I go out and enjoy the sunshine (socially distanced of course), was interesting what a certain backbench MP put on a WhatsApp this morning.
Roy Greenslade unwavering in his support of terror and some journalists refuse or are slow to denounce it and yet no one calls the whole journalistic profession into repute. Wayne Couzens murders someone, is denounced by all officers and now all cops are bastards according to some.
Just a shame some folk can’t see there’s flawed humans being a uniform trying to do their best. Maybe as they get older their anti police views will soften.
You do have to wonder if part of the negative publicity about AZ is also because it's not for profit, from others whose vaccines are.
The basics of contract law are not difficult for non-lawyers to understand, so I can only assume that Dave Keating is being deliberately and wilfully misleading.
Well they think a moral obligation is stronger than a contractual obligation.
Good to see the anti police and covid deniers have finally joined forces.
I hate to have to tell you (well to be fair I don't) but you are the one aligned with the covid deniers on here.
Nope, that’s you I’m afraid. Allison Pearson and Piers Corbyn are your friends. I’m against mass protests and gatherings during a pandemic, that’s a common sense view.
No, I'm on the same side as the CMO, Sir Patrick Vallance, who went on record to say that large outdoor public gatherings such as protests or people going to beaches didn't result in an uptick of viral transmission. You're on the side of lockdown ultras and zero COVID fetishists.
The police and the government have a public relations disaster on their hands not least because the vigil - whatever really happened, and most of us weren't there - was one which millions of rural and small town tory voting parents can imagine their own daughters attending and completely agree with them.
I was absolutely astonished to read the news this morning of what happened. I had assumed a way would be found to allow these vigils to happen with the police doing the lightest of light touch observing and preferably not getting into the TV pictures at all. But no.
You do have to wonder if part of the negative publicity about AZ is also because it's not for profit, from others whose vaccines are.
The basics of contract law are not difficult for non-lawyers to understand, so I can only assume that Dave Keating is being deliberately and wilfully misleading.
Well they think a moral obligation is stronger than a contractual obligation.
I think you pointed out quite correctly that once people start talking about "moral obligations" in these situations, they haven't a leg to stand on.
And, to bring two conversations together, are about as likely to admit they f***ed up vaccine procurement as the Met police are to admit to their mistakes.
You do have to wonder if part of the negative publicity about AZ is also because it's not for profit, from others whose vaccines are.
The basics of contract law are not difficult for non-lawyers to understand, so I can only assume that Dave Keating is being deliberately and wilfully misleading.
Well they think a moral obligation is stronger than a contractual obligation.
With God perhaps, not in a legal dispute.
Reminds of me the old joke.
Q: What's the difference between God and a lawyer?
Comments
https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Location=London-England:-London/Salary
No coincidence I would suggest given your distaste for Bailey who is not only state educated but also generally more socially conservative than them
The Royal Commission won't report until after the General Election anyway.
Almost all of my London friends are graduates and they are not earning significantly massive sums.
My "25k" comment was not supposed to be an authoriative value, I was simply making a point. But besides, a vast majority of those living in London are not "City high flyers" even amongst graduates. You're simply misinterpreting statistics as usual.
When I first graduated I was earning 25k in Northumberland compared to my London friends earning around the same, if not a little more. My standard of living was massively, massively better.
But I was appalled when she became Commissioner.
I just don't think she's got the necessary judgement* and it's showing in the way the force is disintegrating in front of our eyes. A strong commissioner would not have overseen this mess.
*which is not to ignore the fact that in the de Menezes case, there was a difficult call to be made, one that was wrong but was understandable. It's the coverup afterwards that bugs me. Somebody who connived at that should not be in a position of authority.
The irony is that if the Met had been honest they would have been fine, they should have said
'Look, we shot this guy 15 days after suicide bombers killed 50 odd people in London, and a day after a second set of attempted suicide attacks, we screwed up, we were on edge but we hope you understand why and how this happened.'
But no, they couldn't admit they were wrong.
I was reading the Wiki article on this yesterday and the key criticism seems to be lack of comms between three surveillance officers who were trailing de Menezes, and three armed officers who were called in.
I wasn’t sure if Dick led both teams.
Also, she wasn’t to blame (that I know of) for the smears or attempts to prevent and interfere with the IPCC. That was Sir Ian Blair.
Even those not working in the City would still be earning more than they do in the North, housing of course is significantly cheaper in the North yes which is the tradeoff you make for living in London but also the reason why London has the most need for more affordable housing as Bailey is prioritising
I don't think they would have been fired for an honest if extremely tragic mistake.
The average graduate salary in London is circa 29k, and that will be skewed by the big City firms (finance, law, etc) paying their grads 50k+.
So I wasn't far off.
https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-checker/average-graduate-salary-london
But yeah, according to you all London university graduates are really rich, apparently. So detached from reality.
No problem with good independent school products but no reason for the snobbishness around Bailey just because he is a social conservative and state and non Oxbridge educated
The issue is the behaviour of medical authorities, who ought to be rather more dispassionate than the general populace.
It isn't anti police to point out that the police have a history of lying and covering up.
How about Hillsborough, how about the time they tried to fit up a cabinet minister.
Doesn't it worry you that they thought they could frame a cabinet with impunity?
It really should say something to you that so many people, from so many different political perspectives, are united in their view of this whilst you have aligned yourself with a very few anti-lockdown nutters who are using this as an excuse to say 'I told you so'.
The Met police, very sadly, have a recent history as an organisation of covering up their mistakes by almost any means possible. They also have a history of making some very bad operational decisions. As such they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt in this situation and should be judged on the decisions they made and the actions they took rather than on the fact they 'have a tough job to do'.
If you think about it, not voting for Shaun Bailey is a vote for white Etonian privilege in the form of Sadiq Khan. A disgrace.
https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Location=London-England:-London/Salary.
My point stands absolutely, London is divided between wealthy liberal homeowners and renters who tend to vote Labour, the left are happy to keep it that way, affordable new housing to buy in London is not a priority for them
https://twitter.com/SpinningHugo/status/1371040145344974848?s=20
https://twitter.com/SpinningHugo/status/1371040983593451525?s=20
You do have to wonder if part of the negative publicity about AZ is also because it's not for profit, from others whose vaccines are.
https://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/job-sectors/law-sector/how-much-do-lawyers-earn#:~:text=For example, the Magic Circle,£51,000 and £54,000.
UK investment banks are now offering university leavers salaries of up to £60000
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6617413/Top-graduate-starting-salary-60-000-investment-banking-role.html
Citing events from decades ago too. I’m sure you hate doctors too thanks to Harold Shipman.
Khan deserves a proper contest.
If only these uppity women had stayed home. It isn't safe for women to walk the streets like a man. They should be home doing crochet or being slapped by their husband.
Enforcing the law is fair enough to me, it’s the laws you should have an issue with rather than the individuals.
Have a read of the response to Henriques report.
They remind me of the SNP government.
Scotland Yard has claimed it cannot publish the unredacted report into its handling of Operation Midland because doing so could reveal covert policing methods and help criminals evade justice.
But the author of the report, Sir Richard Henriques, has insisted there was nothing in his 491 page dossier that would compromise undercover tactics and accused the Metropolitan Police of making excuses.
The force has been coming under mounting pressure to publish the full report following last week's conviction of the fantasist Carl Beech, whose allegations led to the Met's disastrous 18-month VIP paedophile ring investigation.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/31/scotland-yard-claim-publishing-full-henriques-report-could-help/
I mean that may be true, although I doubt it, that certainly doesn't represent the views of most Labour voters. Most Labour voters want affordable housing and sensible house prices, especially in Southern England.
Of course people move out of London to the outer suburbs precisely because it's more affordable...
Do I prefer liberal Tories to social conservatives - Yes.
Do I prefer independent school educated to state school educated - No.
I would also prefer a capable social conservative to an incapable liberal Tory if its a powerful role.
Its fine. You applaud male Met Police officers dragging women away into the dark from a vigil to commemorate the abduction and murder of a woman where the charge is that a male Met Police officer dragged her off in the dark.
The World would be Better if these so-called Women stayed at home, wouldn't it Brom? They can't get abducted and murdered or dragged off from a peaceful vigil if they are proper women staying home to obey their husband.
No-one was held accountable, and the person in charge that day got a promotion and now leads the force.
Wkipedia says 'Starmer was born in London and raised in Surrey, where he attended the selective state Reigate Grammar School, which became an independent school while he was a student.'
Presumably arrangements were made for those boys who, like Starmer, had entered the school via the 11+ but might well have had difficulty with the fees, to remain, as he did, until he'd finished the VIth Form.
"You see that Antifa terrorist?
Thats your Mum that is"
It;'s a little known fact that Al Qaeda, ISIS etc are really just angry at the closing of the best bacon butty shop in the world, Alan's Snackbar, just outside Edinburgh Station. Hence why they shout that all the time.
Equally, given he is if not the flashiest politician ever clearly a very able man I have no doubt he could have got a scholarship.
We don't know and therefore I think it's unwise to be dogmatic one way or another.
Like picking (and insisting on) Dr Freddy Patel for the Tomlinson autopsy. A pathologist was was under investigation for grotesque incompetence. His speciality - pronouncing that *anything* was accidental death. He was a running joke in Private Eye....
He made such a mess of the autopsy that when a professional tried to redo it, he found that Freddy had destroyed the evidence that would probably have proved that it was accidental death....
There's approximately 6,000 training contracts (read: grad schemes) available per year for law graduates.
Half of those are in London, of which 30% are at "City" firms.
That's 900 places.
There's around 300k graduates every year, give or take. About 20% go to London. That's 60,000 people.
So City law jobs represent around 1.5% of London graduate jobs.
Roy Greenslade unwavering in his support of terror and some journalists refuse or are slow to denounce it and yet no one calls the whole journalistic profession into repute. Wayne Couzens murders someone, is denounced by all officers and now all cops are bastards according to some.
Just a shame some folk can’t see there’s flawed humans being a uniform trying to do their best. Maybe as they get older their anti police views will soften.
Q: What's the difference between God and a lawyer?
A: God doesn't think he's a lawyer.