I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
What's this 'we' business? It's certainly the case that every indication is that the public supported and supports very harsh Covid-19 restrictions, up to when cases like this emerge at least, but 'we' didn't wave in anything.
Our representatives made the call for the reason you give - and this event would not, I think, change whether someone believes it to have been the correct call or not - and they will determine if they are not longer necessary or appropriate. If they did not intend for this sort of thing to be restricted they are very bad at their jobs as it has not been a secret large gatherings are not permitted, and if they did but consider there should be exceptions but didn't list these then they did a not as bad but still poor job not legislating for that.
The law that made tonight happen was put into place in November - and we* all giggled when it was Piers Corbyn.
Now its something serious but its the same fokkin law.
Speak for yourself. I never cheered the arrest of the antivax/antilockdown nutters, and they were nutters.
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
What's this 'we' business? It's certainly the case that every indication is that the public supported and supports very harsh Covid-19 restrictions, up to when cases like this emerge at least, but 'we' didn't wave in anything.
Our representatives made the call for the reason you give - and this event would not, I think, change whether someone believes it to have been the correct call or not - and they will determine if they are not longer necessary or appropriate. If they did not intend for this sort of thing to be restricted they are very bad at their jobs as it has not been a secret large gatherings are not permitted, and if they did but consider there should be exceptions but didn't list these then they did a not as bad but still poor job not legislating for that.
The law that made tonight happen was put into place in November - and we* all giggled when it was Piers Corbyn.
Now its something serious but its the same fokkin law.
First they came for Piers Corbyn. But because I was not an anti-vaxxer, climate change denialist, I said nothing...
but you still had a wank over that handcuffed redhead, with a knee in her neck ...
Forgetting all of the puns for a minute - Cressida Dick is done. This heavy handed approach to women peacefully making a point about violence and harrasment they face is completely unnecessary.
Whatever the "public health" concerns are don't even come close to the issues women face on the streets every single fucking day. I'm not saying that all of them are in danger of being kidnapped, raped and murdered like that poor girl last week. Obviously. What I'm saying is that women's voices and their genuine concerns over the kind of city centre culture we have of them not being able to walk alone after dark needs to be challenged. The Met especially haven't done any kind of job in keeping the streets safe from those who seek to harm women at night, you can quote all of stats about gang members killing each other as much as you want - ultimately, a woman walking alone at night is a taxpayer, a gang member is in the game.
I want London to be a safe city for my wife, my mum, my sister, my niece, my future daughters that might exist one day. Every woman is someone's wife, someone's girlfriend, someone's daughter and so on. The way we listen to their concerns and then action change based on what they have said casts a very poor light on our society.
I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, I'm not some woke wanker trying to point score, I want to make London safe for women. I have no idea how to do that but I think step one is listening and not arresting those who are protesting about it. Fuck lockdown rules and fuck the double standards for allowing the BLM protests to go ahead. The Met are a disgrace and need to a root and branch level of reform, @Cyclefree has a very timely thread today.
Amen. Screw the men are evil Woke stuff, but just get the streets safe for women (everywhere), reform the police and change attitudes so both men and women can both do their own thing, and have fun together too, and enjoy the world on equal terms.
You're edging close to a BLM position there. Replace men with white and women with black.
Nope. I don't support the political objectives of BLM. Nor do I believe in concepts like Defund the Police, submission gestures like taking the knee, separate white and black histories, tearing down statues or everyone White being guilty of Supremacy and Privilege.
I do agree that black people face disadvantages that are unfair and I want them removed. I want skin colour to be as utterly irrelevant as hair colour and for them to be full participants in society, and proudly British too.
So my position on this is entirely consistent with that.
1. The police have been presented with regulations that instruct them that all demonstrations are effectively forbidden 2. However, the regulations contain the fundamental flaw that, depending upon the size of the demo, they may be very hard to enforce: if the demonstration in question is both big enough, and contains a sufficient risk of violence if it is broken up, then the rules are at risk of being rendered meaningless. This is, of course, what happened with BLM 3. Unable to do anything about the large demonstrations, the police then fail to apply a consistency of approach to the smaller ones and instead insist on dispersing them, using force if necessary
Thus, the law and those enforcing it are brought into disrepute, through a combination of regulations that have either not been properly thought through or which the political leadership, which has ultimate power of direction, lacks the backbone to see properly enforced; and an inability to act with sensitivity and discretion.
If BLM was allowed then so should tonight's protest - and was any serious effort made to compromise with those people and ask nicely if they might at least two metre distance, which there was plenty of space to do, or did the police simply insist that they go home?
What a mess.
I agree totally. However, that situation is not sustainable - the police cannot be intimidated by large mobs whilst cracking down on small protests. It's not good enough.
Patel will want resignations on her desk tomorrow - if she doesn't, it could be her job on the line.
If I were in her place I'd be sorely tempted to use this as an opportunity to do what Charles suggested and bring the Met itself down.
The kind of serious messes it becomes embroiled in are rarely heard of in smaller county constabularies. I wonder if there's any case to be made for splitting London up into several force areas? More manageable organisations, shorter chains of command?
COLP and the Met already fight a bit and bad guys try to exploit that.
I suppose you could divide into north and south of the river possibly?
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
Can anyone explain to me, why the Duchess is NOT wearing a face mask in public????
No doubt she's been vaccinated (special category) BUT yours truly has also been jabbed (twice) and I wear the mask.
Because it is the RIGHT thing to do!
Face masks are not compulsory outdoors in the UK.
Compulsion is NOT the point. Moral suasion and good example in a public health crisis IS.
Noone wears a mask outside here ! The US seems to be a split between Democrats who wear them alone in their cars and the GOP that don't wear them anywhere. It's all mask indoors, no mask outdoors here.
Strange if "no one wears a mask outside here" that most of the people in the clip appear to be doing just that?
The only time I see people wearing masks outside here is between shops, i.e. because it would be more of a faff to take it off than leave it on.
Mask virtue signalling hasn't taken off here, thank god.
Yeah, but the COVID has. And you wonder why?
Here is Seattle only crazy people, rightwingers, jackass joggers and other savage Yuppies refuse to wear masks on city streets. AND we are the better for it - as I believe the numbers show?
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
What's this 'we' business? It's certainly the case that every indication is that the public supported and supports very harsh Covid-19 restrictions, up to when cases like this emerge at least, but 'we' didn't wave in anything.
Our representatives made the call for the reason you give - and this event would not, I think, change whether someone believes it to have been the correct call or not - and they will determine if they are not longer necessary or appropriate. If they did not intend for this sort of thing to be restricted they are very bad at their jobs as it has not been a secret large gatherings are not permitted, and if they did but consider there should be exceptions but didn't list these then they did a not as bad but still poor job not legislating for that.
The law that made tonight happen was put into place in November - and we* all giggled when it was Piers Corbyn.
Now its something serious but its the same fokkin law.
First they came for Piers Corbyn. But because I was not an anti-vaxxer, climate change denialist, I said nothing...
but you still had a wank over that handcuffed redhead, with a knee in her neck ...
Dick and others plus where is Khan as London mayor in this
These feckers dont have the decency to resign
Well indeed, Jenrick and Cummings set that precedent last year.
You are comparing this to someone who may have broken a regulation to deliver stuff to his parents?
I wasn't commenting on the severity of particular actions. I was commenting on the fact that no one resigns anymore. You can add Nicola Sturgeon to that list if you are offended by the hint of partisanship on my part.
I am amazed by the hostility towards the police by the Boris Johnson fanclub on here ( I don't include the critique by Cyclefree to be of the same nature by the way). Is this undermining of the police the precursor to a politically appointed national police service lead by Dido Harding? We should be told.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
Dick and others plus where is Khan as London mayor in this
These feckers dont have the decency to resign
Well indeed, Jenrick and Cummings set that precedent last year.
You are comparing this to someone who may have broken a regulation to deliver stuff to his parents?
I wasn't commenting on the severity of particular actions. I was commenting on the fact that no one resigns anymore. You can add Nicola Sturgeon to that list if you are offended by the hint of partisanship on my part.
I am amazed by the hostility towards the police by the Boris Johnson fanclub on here ( I don't include the critique by Cyclefree to be of the same nature by the way). Is this undermining of the police the precursor to a politically appointed national police service lead by Dido Harding? We should be told.
OK, but calling it a precedent implies that somehow they set a precedent for this situation. Given that they are completely different, I don't think that is the case.
The problem is that however bonkers Piers Corbyn and his mates are, they didn't deserve what happened to them any more that what's been done to the women tonight.
If the punishments were felt to be too severe BannedinnParis is absolutely right that is an issue with the law, and wider powers granted, and there's been little indication most people think those powers are too severe.
I do think few people in public life will come at this from a consistent position, and many will set themselves up for a 'Why get angry about X but not Y?' question.
Or, more likely, that the blame will be focused on the police, who deserve a lot of criticism (as per the header), for their handling of things, rather than the law, which fewer people are in a position to credibly attack.
Dick and others plus where is Khan as London mayor in this
These feckers dont have the decency to resign
Well indeed, Jenrick and Cummings set that precedent last year.
You are comparing this to someone who may have broken a regulation to deliver stuff to his parents?
I wasn't commenting on the severity of particular actions. I was commenting on the fact that no one resigns anymore. You can add Nicola Sturgeon to that list if you are offended by the hint of partisanship on my part.
I am amazed by the hostility towards the police by the Boris Johnson fanclub on here ( I don't include the critique by Cyclefree to be of the same nature by the way). Is this undermining of the police the precursor to a politically appointed national police service lead by Dido Harding? We should be told.
If it is actually possible it appears that the 'National' police force in Scotland is even worse than the UK forces so no.
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
I don't remember the police holding holiday makers down on the beach and handcuffing them. Or tourists going to Derbyshire. This is completely disproportionate - all the more so given they have allowed other, much larger, gatherings during the pandemic.
They arrested the two girls in Derbyshire for a start.
Its genuinely worrying how many people seem to be selectively forgetful
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
Absolutely. The same rules have to apply to everyone.
Tim Shipman: "I've lived in London for 24 years. The Met veers between apologetic wokery and moronic brutality. I don't know a single Londoner who thinks they are on their side"
Total. Fucking. Bullshit.
Let him do a shift in a UK cupper's shoes. Especially in London. He wouldn't last half an hour without either doing something *OMFG racist* or getting so angry at obvious crime going non-arrested he would lose his rag
He's definitely bang on. On one side they're all about thought policing and chasing nonsense "crimes" on twitter or kneeling for BLM protests. On the other they don't give a shit about the city becoming more violent and will use base thuggery to shut down protests they don't approve of.
My point is this: it is not the average copper who is at fault. Really, it isn't. I've met them. I've dated them. They really really do try their best. They suffer from appalling leadership, which is appalling BECAUSE it is torn by two trends, absolute insane Wokery (stop and search is racist!!!) and Tory "tough on crime" rhetoric. These things are almost irreconcilable: e.g. it's proven that stop and search reduces knife crime but the fact is, if it is done, it will impact black kids more, because that is where knife crime is worst.
They can't win. Many give up and resort to arresting white Twitter offenders, simply because it is easier and keeps the stats good and won't get your career canned.
Then we blame the cops for our own societal schizophrenia.
I pity UK police, and I am frankly amazed anyone joins, and I am double amazed that they remain a fundamentally humane agency in our society, for all their flaws, certainly by comparison to others, as anyone who has encountered American or Spanish or Russian police will quickly acknowledge
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
What's this 'we' business? It's certainly the case that every indication is that the public supported and supports very harsh Covid-19 restrictions, up to when cases like this emerge at least, but 'we' didn't wave in anything.
Our representatives made the call for the reason you give - and this event would not, I think, change whether someone believes it to have been the correct call or not - and they will determine if they are not longer necessary or appropriate. If they did not intend for this sort of thing to be restricted they are very bad at their jobs as it has not been a secret large gatherings are not permitted, and if they did but consider there should be exceptions but didn't list these then they did a not as bad but still poor job not legislating for that.
The law that made tonight happen was put into place in November - and we* all giggled when it was Piers Corbyn.
Now its something serious but its the same fokkin law.
First they came for Piers Corbyn. But because I was not an anti-vaxxer, climate change denialist, I said nothing...
but you still had a wank over that handcuffed redhead, with a knee in her neck ...
You did though. You know it. I know it. Flag me again, with your free hand.
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
I don't remember the police holding holiday makers down on the beach and handcuffing them. Or tourists going to Derbyshire. This is completely disproportionate - all the more so given they have allowed other, much larger, gatherings during the pandemic.
They arrested the two girls in Derbyshire for a start.
Its genuinely worrying how many people seem to be selectively forgetful
No that is you selectively quoting. They didn't hold them down and handcuff them which is what I said.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
Surely Richard, those women did not observe social distancing or rules concerning how many others they could meet.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
Tim Shipman: "I've lived in London for 24 years. The Met veers between apologetic wokery and moronic brutality. I don't know a single Londoner who thinks they are on their side"
Total. Fucking. Bullshit.
Let him do a shift in a UK cupper's shoes. Especially in London. He wouldn't last half an hour without either doing something *OMFG racist* or getting so angry at obvious crime going non-arrested he would lose his rag
No, he is exactly right. The police, collectively, act out like toddlers.
Tomlinson, De Mendes, even Plebgate all had roots in a certain culture. A culture of complete incapacity to tolerate anything negative being said about them.
Anyone else remember the story of the delegation from ACPoo that went to see Cameron when he became PM. With a list of demands?....
Tim Shipman: "I've lived in London for 24 years. The Met veers between apologetic wokery and moronic brutality. I don't know a single Londoner who thinks they are on their side"
Total. Fucking. Bullshit.
Let him do a shift in a UK cupper's shoes. Especially in London. He wouldn't last half an hour without either doing something *OMFG racist* or getting so angry at obvious crime going non-arrested he would lose his rag
He's definitely bang on. On one side they're all about thought policing and chasing nonsense "crimes" on twitter or kneeling for BLM protests. On the other they don't give a shit about the city becoming more violent and will use base thuggery to shut down protests they don't approve of.
They shouldn't be on twitter at all. Big mistake to get involved on there.
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
What's this 'we' business? It's certainly the case that every indication is that the public supported and supports very harsh Covid-19 restrictions, up to when cases like this emerge at least, but 'we' didn't wave in anything.
Our representatives made the call for the reason you give - and this event would not, I think, change whether someone believes it to have been the correct call or not - and they will determine if they are not longer necessary or appropriate. If they did not intend for this sort of thing to be restricted they are very bad at their jobs as it has not been a secret large gatherings are not permitted, and if they did but consider there should be exceptions but didn't list these then they did a not as bad but still poor job not legislating for that.
The law that made tonight happen was put into place in November - and we* all giggled when it was Piers Corbyn.
Now its something serious but its the same fokkin law.
First they came for Piers Corbyn. But because I was not an anti-vaxxer, climate change denialist, I said nothing...
but you still had a wank over that handcuffed redhead, with a knee in her neck ...
You did though. You know it. I know it. Flag me again, with your free hand.
Can anyone explain to me, why the Duchess is NOT wearing a face mask in public????
No doubt she's been vaccinated (special category) BUT yours truly has also been jabbed (twice) and I wear the mask.
Because it is the RIGHT thing to do!
Face masks are not compulsory outdoors in the UK.
Compulsion is NOT the point. Moral suasion and good example in a public health crisis IS.
Noone wears a mask outside here ! The US seems to be a split between Democrats who wear them alone in their cars and the GOP that don't wear them anywhere. It's all mask indoors, no mask outdoors here.
Strange if "no one wears a mask outside here" that most of the people in the clip appear to be doing just that?
The only time I see people wearing masks outside here is between shops, i.e. because it would be more of a faff to take it off than leave it on.
Mask virtue signalling hasn't taken off here, thank god.
Yeah, but the COVID has. And you wonder why?
Here is Seattle only crazy people, rightwingers, jackass joggers and other savage Yuppies refuse to wear masks on city streets. AND we are the better for it - as I believe the numbers show?
Are people in Seattle unable to read scientific papers on how respiratory viruses spread?
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
What's this 'we' business? It's certainly the case that every indication is that the public supported and supports very harsh Covid-19 restrictions, up to when cases like this emerge at least, but 'we' didn't wave in anything.
Our representatives made the call for the reason you give - and this event would not, I think, change whether someone believes it to have been the correct call or not - and they will determine if they are not longer necessary or appropriate. If they did not intend for this sort of thing to be restricted they are very bad at their jobs as it has not been a secret large gatherings are not permitted, and if they did but consider there should be exceptions but didn't list these then they did a not as bad but still poor job not legislating for that.
The law that made tonight happen was put into place in November - and we* all giggled when it was Piers Corbyn.
Now its something serious but its the same fokkin law.
First they came for Piers Corbyn. But because I was not an anti-vaxxer, climate change denialist, I said nothing...
but you still had a wank over that handcuffed redhead, with a knee in her neck ...
You did though. You know it. I know it. Flag me again, with your free hand.
I really don’t appreciate what you are saying.
The mods should kick you off. You’re a sick character.
Smart of him to get in first - not easy for him to get press, but that may get more attention than Kier's reaction.
Starmer is proving to be an incredibly indecisive leader. He’s continuing this trend of defining ‘centrism’ as being extremely cautious and, if any position is to be declared then it’s sympathetic to be status quo.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
Surely Richard, those women did not observe social distancing or rules concerning how many others they could meet.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
Oh, hello. You're the chao who was annoyed by BigG being disturbed by a crowd at a supermarket. What do you feel is the relative importance of expressing sympathy with a murder victim and getting shopping done quickly?
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
Absolutely. The same rules have to apply to everyone.
Or, as the lockdown bible says 'people will die'
Those women flagrantly failed to protect the NHS. They could have met someone who met someone who could have infected someone who was old.
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
What's this 'we' business? It's certainly the case that every indication is that the public supported and supports very harsh Covid-19 restrictions, up to when cases like this emerge at least, but 'we' didn't wave in anything.
Our representatives made the call for the reason you give - and this event would not, I think, change whether someone believes it to have been the correct call or not - and they will determine if they are not longer necessary or appropriate. If they did not intend for this sort of thing to be restricted they are very bad at their jobs as it has not been a secret large gatherings are not permitted, and if they did but consider there should be exceptions but didn't list these then they did a not as bad but still poor job not legislating for that.
The law that made tonight happen was put into place in November - and we* all giggled when it was Piers Corbyn.
Now its something serious but its the same fokkin law.
Speak for yourself. I never cheered the arrest of the antivax/antilockdown nutters, and they were nutters.
I view the arrests of Corbyn et al as street theatre, where the arrest was carefully sought by them.
Forgetting all of the puns for a minute - Cressida Dick is done. This heavy handed approach to women peacefully making a point about violence and harrasment they face is completely unnecessary.
Whatever the "public health" concerns are don't even come close to the issues women face on the streets every single fucking day. I'm not saying that all of them are in danger of being kidnapped, raped and murdered like that poor girl last week. Obviously. What I'm saying is that women's voices and their genuine concerns over the kind of city centre culture we have of them not being able to walk alone after dark needs to be challenged. The Met especially haven't done any kind of job in keeping the streets safe from those who seek to harm women at night, you can quote all of stats about gang members killing each other as much as you want - ultimately, a woman walking alone at night is a taxpayer, a gang member is in the game.
I want London to be a safe city for my wife, my mum, my sister, my niece, my future daughters that might exist one day. Every woman is someone's wife, someone's girlfriend, someone's daughter and so on. The way we listen to their concerns and then action change based on what they have said casts a very poor light on our society.
I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, I'm not some woke wanker trying to point score, I want to make London safe for women. I have no idea how to do that but I think step one is listening and not arresting those who are protesting about it. Fuck lockdown rules and fuck the double standards for allowing the BLM protests to go ahead. The Met are a disgrace and need to a root and branch level of reform, @Cyclefree has a very timely thread today.
Amen. Screw the men are evil Woke stuff, but just get the streets safe for women (everywhere), reform the police and change attitudes so both men and women can both do their own thing, and have fun together too, and enjoy the world on equal terms.
You're edging close to a BLM position there. Replace men with white and women with black.
Nope. I don't support the political objectives of BLM. Nor do I believe in concepts like Defund the Police, submission gestures like taking the knee, separate white and black histories, tearing down statues or everyone White being guilty of Supremacy and Privilege.
I do agree that black people face disadvantages that are unfair and I want them removed. I want skin colour to be as utterly irrelevant as hair colour and for them to be full participants in society, and proudly British too.
So my position on this is entirely consistent with that.
I understand. I did say "edging towards". Women don't feel safe. Black people don't feel safe.
Rock and a hard place, I'm afraid. What needed to happen was for the Prime Minister to say "look, all protests are now fine."
Problem solved.
Except that he and Priti literally have a bill going through Parliament THIS WEEK allowing the police to effectively ban ALL protests if they are so minded.
And boy, are they minded.
Well, perhaps SKS and the rest of the pro-lockdown/anti-Met people should highlight this instead of trying to have their cake and eat it.
No, I am sorry, for the lockdowners the law should be adhered to, or 'people will die'
And that's what the protestors tonight did, in lockdowner land.
They put people's lives at risk.
One of them might have met someone who knew BigG and infected him.
That is lockdowner logic.
The argument is not about the police enforcing the law uniformly. It is about them doing it selectively depending on whether they support the message or not. It is also about them having some fucking common sense.
But of course you don't care about that. You probably don't even understand the concept.
East Lancashire Railway Diesel Gala is the previous weekend. I had planned a visit last February but had to call it off as I had a *mystery illness*. So this is my target for a return to normality. (Yes, I know that many will think that attending such an event is far from normal.)
I have had a passion for steam since my young days watching the flying scotsman pass our school in Berwick before it crossed the border bridge
I have not lost the love for it and have been to the East Lancashire Railway a few times
Good to see a few railway types appearing out of the woodwork tonight!
I'm footplate crew at Foxfield Railway, possibly the only place where you can work an biggish industrial steam loco to its limits, which is tremendous fun (much more fun than trundling about at 25mph on big express locos).
I drove one of our Austerities into the shed almost exactly a year ago today, as the last loco movement before lockdown hit. It was a strange sensation doing the regular disposal routine, but with no idea how long it would be before another fire would be lit in the grate - it felt more like putting an engine away after its last steaming before overhaul than a normal packing up for the evening.
This year feels much more optimistic - we're permitted to go in at the for essentials maintenance, and I've raised steam several times already test steaming a boiler for a loco that's just been overhauled... Apparently we are running public trains again from July, although we'll probably be running for crew refreshers before then.
Rock and a hard place, I'm afraid. What needed to happen was for the Prime Minister to say "look, all protests are now fine."
Problem solved.
Except that he and Priti literally have a bill going through Parliament THIS WEEK allowing the police to effectively ban ALL protests if they are so minded.
And boy, are they minded.
That Discworld gag I'm so fond of that the police would prefer if we spent all our time indoors with hands on the table where everyone could see them is, of course, not a million miles from the truth - for best and worse intentions the police will surely always want more powers. Policitians do need to resist that urge, as well as their own urge to create new offences or amend offences needlessly all the time.
I recall someone on here once describing the intelligence service approach of something like
Deny you do X Acknowledge X, but argue it is lawful When X found unlawful, argue it is necessary Get law changed to make X lawful
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
I don't remember the police holding holiday makers down on the beach and handcuffing them. Or tourists going to Derbyshire. This is completely disproportionate - all the more so given they have allowed other, much larger, gatherings during the pandemic.
They arrested the two girls in Derbyshire for a start.
Its genuinely worrying how many people seem to be selectively forgetful
No that is you selectively quoting. They didn't hold them down and handcuff them which is what I said.
Learn to read.
"Charles Walker: Woman 'robbed of dignity' in Parliament arrest
A Conservative MP has demanded the prime minister should “end these injustices now” after he said he witnessed an elderly woman being arrested for protesting against coronavirus restrictions outside Parliament."
No, I am sorry, for the lockdowners the law should be adhered to, or 'people will die'
And that's what the protestors tonight did, in lockdowner land.
They put people's lives at risk.
One of them might have met someone who knew BigG and infected him.
That is lockdowner logic.
The argument is not about the police enforcing the law uniformly. It is about them doing it selectively depending on whether they support the message or not. It is also about them having some fucking common sense.
But of course you don't care about that. You probably don't even understand the concept.
Oh I see so people should obey lockdown laws until it hurts your feelz. At which point, putting the lives of others at risk is OK. Protecting the NHS can be suspended.
Or your whole position is a pile of bullsh8t nonsense. One of the two.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
Surely Richard, those women did not observe social distancing or rules concerning how many others they could meet.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
The only pictures we have seen of anyone breaking social distancing is the police.
Tim Shipman: "I've lived in London for 24 years. The Met veers between apologetic wokery and moronic brutality. I don't know a single Londoner who thinks they are on their side"
Total. Fucking. Bullshit.
Let him do a shift in a UK cupper's shoes. Especially in London. He wouldn't last half an hour without either doing something *OMFG racist* or getting so angry at obvious crime going non-arrested he would lose his rag
He's definitely bang on. On one side they're all about thought policing and chasing nonsense "crimes" on twitter or kneeling for BLM protests. On the other they don't give a shit about the city becoming more violent and will use base thuggery to shut down protests they don't approve of.
My point is this: it is not the average copper who is at fault. Really, it isn't. I've met them. I've dated them. They really really do try their best. They suffer from appalling leadership, which is appalling BECAUSE it is torn by two trends, absolute insane Wokery (stop and search is racist!!!) and Tory "tough on crime" rhetoric. These things are almost irreconcilable: e.g. it's proven that stop and search reduces knife crime but the fact is, if it is done, it will impact black kids more, because that is where knife crime is worst.
They can't win. Many give up and resort to arresting white Twitter offenders, simply because it is easier and keeps the stats good and won't get your career canned.
Then we blame the cops for our own societal schizophrenia.
I pity UK police, and I am frankly amazed anyone joins, and I am double amazed that they remain a fundamentally humane agency in our society, for all their flaws, certainly by comparison to others, as anyone who has encountered American or Spanish or Russian police will quickly acknowledge
I'm not talking about individual coppers. I mean the Metropolitan Police as an organisation. From what you're saying you also see it and probably agree with the sentiment. I've got plenty of time for individual copppers, even the few who have stopped and searched me, they tend to be polite and after a short conversation where they realise what type of person they've stopped we all tend to laugh and just move on.
My issue is with the leadership, that's the Met. It needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt.
snip The Met veers between apologetic wokery and moronic brutality.snip
That does seem the absolute worst approach possible. Seems the sort of thing where someone in HR persuades the bosses that a campaign for X or whatever will look good, and then the bosses act like that means nothing else needs doing.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
Surely Richard, those women did not observe social distancing or rules concerning how many others they could meet.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
Oh, hello. You're the chao who was annoyed by BigG being disturbed by a crowd at a supermarket. What do you feel is the relative importance of expressing sympathy with a murder victim and getting shopping done quickly?
Like BigG, you do not want to be confronted with the terrible consequences of the policies you have supported over the past year.
Well strap yourself in, because this is just the beginning.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
Surely Richard, those women did not observe social distancing or rules concerning how many others they could meet.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
The only pictures we have seen of anyone breaking social distancing is the police.
I suspect the same could be said of Piers Corbyn et al.
Smart of him to get in first - not easy for him to get press, but that may get more attention than Kier's reaction.
Starmer is proving to be an incredibly indecisive leader. He’s continuing this trend of defining ‘centrism’ as being extremely cautious and, if any position is to be declared then it’s sympathetic to be status quo.
That would explain why I've been kindly disposed to him, given my own proclivities.
Tim Shipman: "I've lived in London for 24 years. The Met veers between apologetic wokery and moronic brutality. I don't know a single Londoner who thinks they are on their side"
Total. Fucking. Bullshit.
Let him do a shift in a UK cupper's shoes. Especially in London. He wouldn't last half an hour without either doing something *OMFG racist* or getting so angry at obvious crime going non-arrested he would lose his rag
No, he is exactly right. The police, collectively, act out like toddlers.
Tomlinson, De Mendes, even Plebgate all had roots in a certain culture. A culture of complete incapacity to tolerate anything negative being said about them.
Anyone else remember the story of the delegation from ACPoo that went to see Cameron when he became PM. With a list of demands?....
It's the leadership, managerial - and political. We give the police entirely conflicting signals, and warn them an overstep can be career-ending, then we demand perfect policing of controversial political demos.
BLM protestors tried to murder people. I saw it. Should the cops have waded in? Yes, to my mind. It was attempted murder. Yet the cops were clearly told to hang back. Then people complain that lockdown isn't enforced, society is at risk, etc, why are you inactive?
How the F are the coppers meant to know when and where we, as a society, draw a line? We do not even know ourselves
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
What's this 'we' business? It's certainly the case that every indication is that the public supported and supports very harsh Covid-19 restrictions, up to when cases like this emerge at least, but 'we' didn't wave in anything.
Our representatives made the call for the reason you give - and this event would not, I think, change whether someone believes it to have been the correct call or not - and they will determine if they are not longer necessary or appropriate. If they did not intend for this sort of thing to be restricted they are very bad at their jobs as it has not been a secret large gatherings are not permitted, and if they did but consider there should be exceptions but didn't list these then they did a not as bad but still poor job not legislating for that.
The law that made tonight happen was put into place in November - and we* all giggled when it was Piers Corbyn.
Now its something serious but its the same fokkin law.
Speak for yourself. I never cheered the arrest of the antivax/antilockdown nutters, and they were nutters.
I view the arrests of Corbyn et al as street theatre, where the arrest was carefully sought by them.
No, I am sorry, for the lockdowners the law should be adhered to, or 'people will die'
And that's what the protestors tonight did, in lockdowner land.
They put people's lives at risk.
One of them might have met someone who knew BigG and infected him.
That is lockdowner logic.
The argument is not about the police enforcing the law uniformly. It is about them doing it selectively depending on whether they support the message or not. It is also about them having some fucking common sense.
But of course you don't care about that. You probably don't even understand the concept.
Oh I see so people should obey lockdown laws until it hurts your feelz. At which point, putting the lives of others at risk is OK. Protecting the NHS can be suspended.
Or your whole position is a pile of bullsh8t nonsense. One of the two.
In case it hasn't seeped into your admittedly very tiny brain this isn't about the vigil. It is about the police response. It is about inconsistency and heavy handedness.
And again in case your feeble brain has forgotten at no time in our discussion earlier today did I make any mention whatso ever of police enforcement or laws. I am pretty sure no one else did either. It was all about personal responsibility.
Of course you forget that because you find it difficult to think without moving your lips.
Smart of him to get in first - not easy for him to get press, but that may get more attention than Kier's reaction.
Starmer is proving to be an incredibly indecisive leader. He’s continuing this trend of defining ‘centrism’ as being extremely cautious and, if any position is to be declared then it’s sympathetic to be status quo.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
Surely Richard, those women did not observe social distancing or rules concerning how many others they could meet.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
Oh, hello. You're the chao who was annoyed by BigG being disturbed by a crowd at a supermarket. What do you feel is the relative importance of expressing sympathy with a murder victim and getting shopping done quickly?
Like BigG, you do not want to be confronted with the terrible consequences of the policies you have supported over the past year.
Well strap yourself in, because this is just the beginning.
Oh, do tell us what is next. Given that the overwhelming majority of people are content with the plan to reopen I don't see much changing at all. You might see a change to the rules on protesting, but the High Court ruling seems to have done that already.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
Here here. This is lockdown in a nutshell. People support the measures when it’s causing inconvenience or pain to someone else. When the rules collide with their own lives or world view, the cognitive dissonance means it’s all “covid laws don’t matter, we / the police should use common sense”.
Most here have happily cheered on the implementation of powers that would have embarrassed the hardest of autocracies. What did you think would happen to our social contract if we went down this path?
This should be a moment of awakening that lockdown laws have quite appalling downsides for our society, and no one in power has even had the courtesy to attempt an estimate of whether the supposed upsides are worth it.
Tim Shipman: "I've lived in London for 24 years. The Met veers between apologetic wokery and moronic brutality. I don't know a single Londoner who thinks they are on their side"
Total. Fucking. Bullshit.
Let him do a shift in a UK cupper's shoes. Especially in London. He wouldn't last half an hour without either doing something *OMFG racist* or getting so angry at obvious crime going non-arrested he would lose his rag
He's definitely bang on. On one side they're all about thought policing and chasing nonsense "crimes" on twitter or kneeling for BLM protests. On the other they don't give a shit about the city becoming more violent and will use base thuggery to shut down protests they don't approve of.
My point is this: it is not the average copper who is at fault. Really, it isn't. I've met them. I've dated them. They really really do try their best. They suffer from appalling leadership, which is appalling BECAUSE it is torn by two trends, absolute insane Wokery (stop and search is racist!!!) and Tory "tough on crime" rhetoric. These things are almost irreconcilable: e.g. it's proven that stop and search reduces knife crime but the fact is, if it is done, it will impact black kids more, because that is where knife crime is worst.
They can't win. Many give up and resort to arresting white Twitter offenders, simply because it is easier and keeps the stats good and won't get your career canned.
Then we blame the cops for our own societal schizophrenia.
I pity UK police, and I am frankly amazed anyone joins, and I am double amazed that they remain a fundamentally humane agency in our society, for all their flaws, certainly by comparison to others, as anyone who has encountered American or Spanish or Russian police will quickly acknowledge
Live by the Culture War die by the Culture War. Enact sweeping powers to embarrass Labour into backing BLM or XR above our brave boys in blue. End up beating up middle class white women. So it goes.
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
I don't remember the police holding holiday makers down on the beach and handcuffing them. Or tourists going to Derbyshire. This is completely disproportionate - all the more so given they have allowed other, much larger, gatherings during the pandemic.
They arrested the two girls in Derbyshire for a start.
Its genuinely worrying how many people seem to be selectively forgetful
No that is you selectively quoting. They didn't hold them down and handcuff them which is what I said.
East Lancashire Railway Diesel Gala is the previous weekend. I had planned a visit last February but had to call it off as I had a *mystery illness*. So this is my target for a return to normality. (Yes, I know that many will think that attending such an event is far from normal.)
I have had a passion for steam since my young days watching the flying scotsman pass our school in Berwick before it crossed the border bridge
I have not lost the love for it and have been to the East Lancashire Railway a few times
Good to see a few railway types appearing out of the woodwork tonight!
I'm footplate crew at Foxfield Railway, possibly the only place where you can work an biggish industrial steam loco to its limits, which is tremendous fun (much more fun than trundling about at 25mph on big express locos).
I drove one of our Austerities into the shed almost exactly a year ago today, as the last loco movement before lockdown hit. It was a strange sensation doing the regular disposal routine, but with no idea how long it would be before another fire would be lit in the grate - it felt more like putting an engine away after its last steaming before overhaul than a normal packing up for the evening.
This year feels much more optimistic - we're permitted to go in at the for essentials maintenance, and I've raised steam several times already test steaming a boiler for a loco that's just been overhauled... Apparently we are running public trains again from July, although we'll probably be running for crew refreshers before then.
Hope you gave her a hug and told her it wasn’t her fault.
As for the Met and the protests tonight, I’m not too sure why the narrative appears to have turned into BLM versus women protesting violence.
The police are inconsistent with how they’ve handled protests because they are incompetent, and I suspect there is an old boys club element as well to this case considering it implicates one of their own. It’s not because they are BLM apologists or genuinely ‘woke’ on race but somehow not on gender.
I think the police try to make people think they are more progressive on issues such as race with performative gestures than they actually are.
Cressida Dick is a prime example of the limits of representation. Just because an woman or/and a person of colour is at the top of holds a senior position within an institution does not mean that institution does not have issues with sexism or racism.
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
I don't remember the police holding holiday makers down on the beach and handcuffing them. Or tourists going to Derbyshire. This is completely disproportionate - all the more so given they have allowed other, much larger, gatherings during the pandemic.
They arrested the two girls in Derbyshire for a start.
Its genuinely worrying how many people seem to be selectively forgetful
No that is you selectively quoting. They didn't hold them down and handcuff them which is what I said.
Learn to read.
"Charles Walker: Woman 'robbed of dignity' in Parliament arrest
A Conservative MP has demanded the prime minister should “end these injustices now” after he said he witnessed an elderly woman being arrested for protesting against coronavirus restrictions outside Parliament."
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
Surely Richard, those women did not observe social distancing or rules concerning how many others they could meet.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
The only pictures we have seen of anyone breaking social distancing is the police.
I suspect the same could be said of Piers Corbyn et al.
Tim Shipman: "I've lived in London for 24 years. The Met veers between apologetic wokery and moronic brutality. I don't know a single Londoner who thinks they are on their side"
Total. Fucking. Bullshit.
Let him do a shift in a UK cupper's shoes. Especially in London. He wouldn't last half an hour without either doing something *OMFG racist* or getting so angry at obvious crime going non-arrested he would lose his rag
He's definitely bang on. On one side they're all about thought policing and chasing nonsense "crimes" on twitter or kneeling for BLM protests. On the other they don't give a shit about the city becoming more violent and will use base thuggery to shut down protests they don't approve of.
My point is this: it is not the average copper who is at fault. Really, it isn't. I've met them. I've dated them. They really really do try their best. They suffer from appalling leadership, which is appalling BECAUSE it is torn by two trends, absolute insane Wokery (stop and search is racist!!!) and Tory "tough on crime" rhetoric. These things are almost irreconcilable: e.g. it's proven that stop and search reduces knife crime but the fact is, if it is done, it will impact black kids more, because that is where knife crime is worst.
They can't win. Many give up and resort to arresting white Twitter offenders, simply because it is easier and keeps the stats good and won't get your career canned.
Then we blame the cops for our own societal schizophrenia.
I pity UK police, and I am frankly amazed anyone joins, and I am double amazed that they remain a fundamentally humane agency in our society, for all their flaws, certainly by comparison to others, as anyone who has encountered American or Spanish or Russian police will quickly acknowledge
I'm not talking about individual coppers. I mean the Metropolitan Police as an organisation. From what you're saying you also see it and probably agree with the sentiment. I've got plenty of time for individual copppers, even the few who have stopped and searched me, they tend to be polite and after a short conversation where they realise what type of person they've stopped we all tend to laugh and just move on.
My issue is with the leadership, that's the Met. It needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt.
When Craig Mackey discovered that he wasn't getting enough respect after he locked himself in his car during the Westminster attack, he attempted have officers disciplined who, he thought weren't deferential enough.
Apparently this was considered an issue of concern among the Met leadership.
The lack of respect was the concern. Not the running away, or the demanding respect.
Smart of him to get in first - not easy for him to get press, but that may get more attention than Kier's reaction.
Starmer is proving to be an incredibly indecisive leader. He’s continuing this trend of defining ‘centrism’ as being extremely cautious and, if any position is to be declared then it’s sympathetic to be status quo.
Good to see you back.
How's things?
Things are fine, just can’t wait until lockdown is over to be quite honest. Obviously I understand why we’ve had to lockdown again but am relieved that there does appear to be a way out. My grandparents have both had their jabs as well, which is great.
Hope things are all well with you and your family.
Forgetting all of the puns for a minute - Cressida Dick is done. This heavy handed approach to women peacefully making a point about violence and harrasment they face is completely unnecessary.
Whatever the "public health" concerns are don't even come close to the issues women face on the streets every single fucking day. I'm not saying that all of them are in danger of being kidnapped, raped and murdered like that poor girl last week. Obviously. What I'm saying is that women's voices and their genuine concerns over the kind of city centre culture we have of them not being able to walk alone after dark needs to be challenged. The Met especially haven't done any kind of job in keeping the streets safe from those who seek to harm women at night, you can quote all of stats about gang members killing each other as much as you want - ultimately, a woman walking alone at night is a taxpayer, a gang member is in the game.
I want London to be a safe city for my wife, my mum, my sister, my niece, my future daughters that might exist one day. Every woman is someone's wife, someone's girlfriend, someone's daughter and so on. The way we listen to their concerns and then action change based on what they have said casts a very poor light on our society.
I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, I'm not some woke wanker trying to point score, I want to make London safe for women. I have no idea how to do that but I think step one is listening and not arresting those who are protesting about it. Fuck lockdown rules and fuck the double standards for allowing the BLM protests to go ahead. The Met are a disgrace and need to a root and branch level of reform, @Cyclefree has a very timely thread today.
Amen. Screw the men are evil Woke stuff, but just get the streets safe for women (everywhere), reform the police and change attitudes so both men and women can both do their own thing, and have fun together too, and enjoy the world on equal terms.
You're edging close to a BLM position there. Replace men with white and women with black.
Nope. I don't support the political objectives of BLM. Nor do I believe in concepts like Defund the Police, submission gestures like taking the knee, separate white and black histories, tearing down statues or everyone White being guilty of Supremacy and Privilege.
I do agree that black people face disadvantages that are unfair and I want them removed. I want skin colour to be as utterly irrelevant as hair colour and for them to be full participants in society, and proudly British too.
So my position on this is entirely consistent with that.
I understand. I did say "edging towards". Women don't feel safe. Black people don't feel safe.
I'm not inexorably edging towards anything. That would imply I'm on a one-way journey to Wokeness, just at a slower speed.
I have a reasoned centre-right position on issues of fairness to all that I think is rational, balanced and sensible, and I believe it to be the right one.
How many of murders 1-22 were gang members killing each other? There's your answer. A lot of Londoners either directly identify with the girl who was murdered or, like me, recognise the situation facing my wife on a daily basis in this city.
Sarah Everard was a taxpayer - this is a taxpayer murder, that's why it offends us all so much. Gang members deep in the game stabbing each other over territory doesn't.
That's what I was saying earlier, we as a society do not give a fuck about most violent crime. How you expect the streets to be made safer when we tolerate a lot of violence is beyond me.
I think people are able to make a distinction between the two and most of us realise that gang violence doesn't tend to spill over into the wider public. There's usually a pretty big outcry when it does though like that woman bystander who got shot a few years ago, quite a few gang members ended up behind bars after that becuase it forced the Met into action for once.
Tim Shipman: "I've lived in London for 24 years. The Met veers between apologetic wokery and moronic brutality. I don't know a single Londoner who thinks they are on their side"
Total. Fucking. Bullshit.
Let him do a shift in a UK cupper's shoes. Especially in London. He wouldn't last half an hour without either doing something *OMFG racist* or getting so angry at obvious crime going non-arrested he would lose his rag
No, he is exactly right. The police, collectively, act out like toddlers.
Tomlinson, De Mendes, even Plebgate all had roots in a certain culture. A culture of complete incapacity to tolerate anything negative being said about them.
Anyone else remember the story of the delegation from ACPoo that went to see Cameron when he became PM. With a list of demands?....
It's the leadership, managerial - and political. We give the police entirely conflicting signals, and warn them an overstep can be career-ending, then we demand perfect policing of controversial political demos.
BLM protestors tried to murder people. I saw it. Should the cops have waded in? Yes, to my mind. It was attempted murder. Yet the cops were clearly told to hang back. Then people complain that lockdown isn't enforced, society is at risk, etc, why are you inactive?
How the F are the coppers meant to know when and where we, as a society, draw a line? We do not even know ourselves
I think there is a point about conflicting signals, especially when they very much will be criticised for carrying out certain laws which may be poorly written or with very poor guidance from government (guidance which itself may be unlawful in what it claims are powers the police are to have). That does contribute to it being a pretty difficult and not very nice job.
That said, while the point is made about demanding perfection at all times even in complex situations, ultimately I do fall back on certain jobs, because of the powers those jobs have over the public, do demand exactingly high standards as recompense.
Politicians have power over us, police have power over us in an even more visceral physical way. There are complexities to it that are not the fault of the police, and highly complex situations which cannot be perfect all the time. But many even basic things are not done right far too often, and in any case given their powers over us they do need to be held to such very very high standards, even if that makes the job less appealing. It's a public service after all.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
Surely Richard, those women did not observe social distancing or rules concerning how many others they could meet.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
The only pictures we have seen of anyone breaking social distancing is the police.
I suspect the same could be said of Piers Corbyn et al.
That was equally wrong as I said at the time.
So I'm not sure what you're arguing about as you seem to be on the same page. The police are being religiously consistent from what I've seen.
I recall that one of the first things that Boris did as Mayor of London was to tell that odious creep Blair that he did not have to confidence of the people of London and should resign. No doubt Khan will do something similar tomorrow?
Er, do we really think the Mayor should be involved in operational details? Or is Mr Bailey just covering off so he condemn both lack of involvement and involvement simultaneously? I think we know.
Comments
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
I do agree that black people face disadvantages that are unfair and I want them removed. I want skin colour to be as utterly irrelevant as hair colour and for them to be full participants in society, and proudly British too.
So my position on this is entirely consistent with that.
I suppose you could divide into north and south of the river possibly?
Already shelling and large scale massing of troops and armoured equipment
Turkish drones operating from Turkey are operating on behalf of Ukraine too.
Here is Seattle only crazy people, rightwingers, jackass joggers and other savage Yuppies refuse to wear masks on city streets. AND we are the better for it - as I believe the numbers show?
at 3 pm illegal
sometime in between fine
then the police actually enforce the law
give your head a wobble
This has been brewing and you CHEERED it through
I am amazed by the hostility towards the police by the Boris Johnson fanclub on here ( I don't include the critique by Cyclefree to be of the same nature by the way). Is this undermining of the police the precursor to a politically appointed national police service lead by Dido Harding? We should be told.
And that's what the protestors tonight did, in lockdowner land.
They put people's lives at risk.
One of them might have met someone who knew BigG and infected him.
That is lockdowner logic.
I do think few people in public life will come at this from a consistent position, and many will set themselves up for a 'Why get angry about X but not Y?' question.
Or, more likely, that the blame will be focused on the police, who deserve a lot of criticism (as per the header), for their handling of things, rather than the law, which fewer people are in a position to credibly attack.
Its genuinely worrying how many people seem to be selectively forgetful
Especially as Carrie Symonds was a victim of John Worboys when just 20 - and gave evidence against him at his trial.
They can't win. Many give up and resort to arresting white Twitter offenders, simply because it is easier and keeps the stats good and won't get your career canned.
Then we blame the cops for our own societal schizophrenia.
I pity UK police, and I am frankly amazed anyone joins, and I am double amazed that they remain a fundamentally humane agency in our society, for all their flaws, certainly by comparison to others, as anyone who has encountered American or Spanish or Russian police will quickly acknowledge
Learn to read.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
Tomlinson, De Mendes, even Plebgate all had roots in a certain culture. A culture of complete incapacity to tolerate anything negative being said about them.
Anyone else remember the story of the delegation from ACPoo that went to see Cameron when he became PM. With a list of demands?....
The mods should kick you off.
You’re a sick character.
She's deliberately not blaming anyone before the report so she can fire them after it
Those women flagrantly failed to protect the NHS. They could have met someone who met someone who could have infected someone who was old.
and that is obviously risking lives, right?
I mean, it really is this isn't it.
We've earned tonight's headlines.
But of course you don't care about that. You probably don't even understand the concept.
I'm footplate crew at Foxfield Railway, possibly the only place where you can work an biggish industrial steam loco to its limits, which is tremendous fun (much more fun than trundling about at 25mph on big express locos).
I drove one of our Austerities into the shed almost exactly a year ago today, as the last loco movement before lockdown hit. It was a strange sensation doing the regular disposal routine, but with no idea how long it would be before another fire would be lit in the grate - it felt more like putting an engine away after its last steaming before overhaul than a normal packing up for the evening.
This year feels much more optimistic - we're permitted to go in at the for essentials maintenance, and I've raised steam several times already test steaming a boiler for a loco that's just been overhauled... Apparently we are running public trains again from July, although we'll probably be running for crew refreshers before then.
I recall someone on here once describing the intelligence service approach of something like
Deny you do X
Acknowledge X, but argue it is lawful
When X found unlawful, argue it is necessary
Get law changed to make X lawful
A Conservative MP has demanded the prime minister should “end these injustices now” after he said he witnessed an elderly woman being arrested for protesting against coronavirus restrictions outside Parliament."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-55059316
"Some of the footage circulatin' online from the vigil in Clapham is upsettin'.
Or your whole position is a pile of bullsh8t nonsense. One of the two.
Russia also moving specialist equipment up it looks like.
Could be quite a mess incoming
My issue is with the leadership, that's the Met. It needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt.
Well strap yourself in, because this is just the beginning.
right.
no way
I am shocked.
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
BLM protestors tried to murder people. I saw it. Should the cops have waded in? Yes, to my mind. It was attempted murder. Yet the cops were clearly told to hang back. Then people complain that lockdown isn't enforced, society is at risk, etc, why are you inactive?
How the F are the coppers meant to know when and where we, as a society, draw a line? We do not even know ourselves
think
it
through
And again in case your feeble brain has forgotten at no time in our discussion earlier today did I make any mention whatso ever of police enforcement or laws. I am pretty sure no one else did either. It was all about personal responsibility.
Of course you forget that because you find it difficult to think without moving your lips.
How's things?
Most here have happily cheered on the implementation of powers that would have embarrassed the hardest of autocracies. What did you think would happen to our social contract if we went down this path?
This should be a moment of awakening that lockdown laws have quite appalling downsides for our society, and no one in power has even had the courtesy to attempt an estimate of whether the supposed upsides are worth it.
Enact sweeping powers to embarrass Labour into backing BLM or XR above our brave boys in blue.
End up beating up middle class white women.
So it goes.
The police are inconsistent with how they’ve handled protests because they are incompetent, and I suspect there is an old boys club element as well to this case considering it implicates one of their own. It’s not because they are BLM apologists or genuinely ‘woke’ on race but somehow not on gender.
I think the police try to make people think they are more progressive on issues such as race with performative gestures than they actually are.
Cressida Dick is a prime example of the limits of representation. Just because an woman or/and a person of colour is at the top of holds a senior position within an institution does not mean that institution does not have issues with sexism or racism.
https://twitter.com/sazmeister88/status/1370451477769125888?s=09
Only one of them introduced the law.
Apparently this was considered an issue of concern among the Met leadership.
The lack of respect was the concern. Not the running away, or the demanding respect.
I think that sums them up quite nicely.
https://twitter.com/ShaunBaileyUK/status/1370856528517926920?s=20
https://twitter.com/ShaunBaileyUK/status/1370856530166358017?s=20
Hope things are all well with you and your family.
I have a reasoned centre-right position on issues of fairness to all that I think is rational, balanced and sensible, and I believe it to be the right one.
That said, while the point is made about demanding perfection at all times even in complex situations, ultimately I do fall back on certain jobs, because of the powers those jobs have over the public, do demand exactingly high standards as recompense.
Politicians have power over us, police have power over us in an even more visceral physical way. There are complexities to it that are not the fault of the police, and highly complex situations which cannot be perfect all the time. But many even basic things are not done right far too often, and in any case given their powers over us they do need to be held to such very very high standards, even if that makes the job less appealing. It's a public service after all.
LOL