I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
No he's spot on. If there is one thing worse than pointless repressive lockdown laws, it's enforcement of those same laws only against people you dislike. If they aren't necessary (hint - they aren't), they shouldn't be laws. If they are laws, then they should be enforced equally against everybody.
A lot of the problem with policing in this country is because politicians pass unworkable or ridiculous laws, and then expect the police to only go after some offenders. Its not fair on the police, and its not fair on us. Our society would be a lot better for repealing about 50% of laws, and then making half an attempt at enforceing the 50% that actually should be retained.
"For God's sake make sure the press get a load of photos of burley male police officers pushing young women onto the floor and cuffing them. Gotta stamp out this kind of protest nonsense."
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Khan may be defacto Met Commissioner on PB, however in name he is not. On that same point both Priti Patel and Boris Johnson could be seen as defacto Police Commissioners, the buck stops with them, however in name they are not. If you are demanding resignations why stop at Khan?
I have never before come across Conservatives being so hostile to the police as an institution. That used to be the sole intellectual property of the mad left.
Smart of him to get in first - not easy for him to get press, but that may get more attention than Kier's reaction.
Starmer is proving to be an incredibly indecisive leader. He’s continuing this trend of defining ‘centrism’ as being extremely cautious and, if any position is to be declared then it’s sympathetic to be status quo.
Good to see you back.
How's things?
Things are fine, just can’t wait until lockdown is over to be quite honest. Obviously I understand why we’ve had to lockdown again but am relieved that there does appear to be a way out. My grandparents have both had their jabs as well, which is great.
Hope things are all well with you and your family.
Yeah, we are fine. The second wave was horrible, and I don't think a third would be tolerable. I really hope it doesn't happen.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Khan may be defacto Met Commissioner on PB, however in name he is not. On that same point both Priti Patel and Boris Johnson could be seen as defacto Police Commissioners, the buck stops with them, however in name they are not. If you are demanding resignations why stop at Khan?
I have never before come across Conservatives being so hostile to the police as an institution. That used to be the sole intellectual property of the mad left.
Tonight I've yet to find a single person supporting the Police.
Forgetting all of the puns for a minute - Cressida Dick is done. This heavy handed approach to women peacefully making a point about violence and harrasment they face is completely unnecessary.
Whatever the "public health" concerns are don't even come close to the issues women face on the streets every single fucking day. I'm not saying that all of them are in danger of being kidnapped, raped and murdered like that poor girl last week. Obviously. What I'm saying is that women's voices and their genuine concerns over the kind of city centre culture we have of them not being able to walk alone after dark needs to be challenged. The Met especially haven't done any kind of job in keeping the streets safe from those who seek to harm women at night, you can quote all of stats about gang members killing each other as much as you want - ultimately, a woman walking alone at night is a taxpayer, a gang member is in the game.
I want London to be a safe city for my wife, my mum, my sister, my niece, my future daughters that might exist one day. Every woman is someone's wife, someone's girlfriend, someone's daughter and so on. The way we listen to their concerns and then action change based on what they have said casts a very poor light on our society.
I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, I'm not some woke wanker trying to point score, I want to make London safe for women. I have no idea how to do that but I think step one is listening and not arresting those who are protesting about it. Fuck lockdown rules and fuck the double standards for allowing the BLM protests to go ahead. The Met are a disgrace and need to a root and branch level of reform, @Cyclefree has a very timely thread today.
Amen. Screw the men are evil Woke stuff, but just get the streets safe for women (everywhere), reform the police and change attitudes so both men and women can both do their own thing, and have fun together too, and enjoy the world on equal terms.
You're edging close to a BLM position there. Replace men with white and women with black.
Nope. I don't support the political objectives of BLM. Nor do I believe in concepts like Defund the Police, submission gestures like taking the knee, separate white and black histories, tearing down statues or everyone White being guilty of Supremacy and Privilege.
I do agree that black people face disadvantages that are unfair and I want them removed. I want skin colour to be as utterly irrelevant as hair colour and for them to be full participants in society, and proudly British too.
So my position on this is entirely consistent with that.
I understand. I did say "edging towards". Women don't feel safe. Black people don't feel safe.
I'm not inexorably edging towards anything. That would imply I'm on a one-way journey to Wokeness, just at a slower speed.
I have a reasoned centre-right position on issues of fairness to all that I think is rational, balanced and sensible, and I believe it to be the right one.
I didn't suggest you were. "Inexorably" was your word. Nor am I attempting to have a row with you. I am sure you do believe your views to be the right ones. You generally make a good fist of arguing them.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
No he's spot on. If there is one thing worse than pointless repressive lockdown laws, it's enforcement of those same laws only against people you dislike. If they are necessary (hint - they aren't), they shouldn't be laws. If they are laws, then they should be enforced.
A lot of the problem with policing in this country is because politicians pass unworkable or ridiculous laws, and then expect the police to only go after some offenders. Its not fair on the police, and its not fair on us. Our society would be a lot better for repealing about 50% of laws, and then making half an attempt at enforceing the 50% that actually should be retained.
The "if you give us a law, we can't help ourselves" excuse was trotted out by the police as a reason why 98% of people arrested under the Prevention of Terrorism act were young black men. Who weren't terrorists....
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Why Khan? If him why not Patel? Only one of them introduced the law.
I understood the London Mayor was responsible for policing in London
I don't think either of them are supposed to be involved in operational policing decisions. But either or both could helpfully have seen this coming and had a word with the Commissioner about the need to act with discretion, as police forces in other cities seem to have done..
1. We've always known that the risk of transmission outside was minimal. It's frustrating that we've been consistently getting this wrong.
2. Why do the police so often misjudge a situation, to make it worse rather than better? Even if you view this as simply enforcing the law, a less confrontational approach would have been more appropriate.
3. Youngish women (say ~30-40 years old) have consistently been the strongest demographic for Labour since at least the days of Blair. If this is the start of a greater degree of political activism from that demographic then it is both an opportunity and a risk for Starmer and Labour.
Can anyone explain to me, why the Duchess is NOT wearing a face mask in public????
No doubt she's been vaccinated (special category) BUT yours truly has also been jabbed (twice) and I wear the mask.
Because it is the RIGHT thing to do!
The law doesn't require the wearing of masks outside if social distance can be maintained, thank God.
And how wide is the average sidewalk in YOUR part of the world?
We don't have sidewalks, we have pavements.
That's right. And pretty narrow ones for the most part, as far as I can remember. Certainly NOT six-feet in most places.
I believe the Citizens Perambulation Act of 1312 mandates that the width of all pavements, at least within the City of London as then was, be set at the height of the current monach.
It's going to cause drastic trouble when Charles takes over and we have to widen them all by at least half a foot, but on the other hand it will help Boris' Build Back Better stimulus.
Remember a copper went to prison in the last decade for trying to frame a cabinet minister.
If they can try and fit up a cabinet minister then what chance does an ordinary person have against the coppers.
A very disturbing incident that got overlooked by many because a man said a bad thing. And during the events the Police Federation reps flat out lied about a conversation they had with him, which he helpfully recorded.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
Surely Richard, those women did not observe social distancing or rules concerning how many others they could meet.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
The only pictures we have seen of anyone breaking social distancing is the police.
I suspect the same could be said of Piers Corbyn et al.
That was equally wrong as I said at the time.
So I'm not sure what you're arguing about as you seem to be on the same page. The police are being religiously consistent from what I've seen.
Only if you have selected a couple of examples that are consistent and then ignored all the others that aren't. That is not the definition of consistency.
Your daily reminder of what happened in the BLM protests in the summer. There were many like this, I saw them. It is lucky no one died. The police were told to hang back: I know this because they told me. They felt an intervention would make things worse.
This is the kind of decision we ask of our cops every day. What would you do? An angry and righteous demo that turns violent, yet in a volatile political situation?
Personally I think they should have prohibited all demos - left/right, BLM/UKIP, whatever/whenever during Covid. But maybe that was impossible?
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
You really are an ignorant buffoon aren't you.
Surely Richard, those women did not observe social distancing or rules concerning how many others they could meet.
They were. in the eyes of the government, and of every lockdown supporter 'putting lives at risk'
So surely you support what the Met did. They arrested women who were flagrantly failing to save lives and protect the NHS.
The only pictures we have seen of anyone breaking social distancing is the police.
I suspect the same could be said of Piers Corbyn et al.
That was equally wrong as I said at the time.
So I'm not sure what you're arguing about as you seem to be on the same page. The police are being religiously consistent from what I've seen.
Only if you have selected a couple of examples that are consistent and then ignored all the others that aren't. That is not the definition of consistency.
Go on then, give the examples of inconsistency. I only know about the Corbyn arrests because they get highlighted on here.
Be very interesting to see what 10, Downing Street has to say about this issue of the safety of women on our streets.
Especially as Carrie Symonds was a victim of John Worboys when just 20 - and gave evidence against him at his trial.
Is it legal to disclose this? Has she expressly waived confidentiality? If not I suggest it is removed.
It's public knowledge. Mind you I've known stuff to be public knowledge one day then completely verbotten the next - the name of the girl in this report springs to mind https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-19731793
Can anyone explain to me, why the Duchess is NOT wearing a face mask in public????
No doubt she's been vaccinated (special category) BUT yours truly has also been jabbed (twice) and I wear the mask.
Because it is the RIGHT thing to do!
The law doesn't require the wearing of masks outside if social distance can be maintained, thank God.
And how wide is the average sidewalk in YOUR part of the world?
We don't have sidewalks, we have pavements.
That's right. And pretty narrow ones for the most part, as far as I can remember. Certainly NOT six-feet in most places.
Personally, I usually step into the road to give people a wider berth, as well as keeping my breath in and inclining the head away. I don't think it's necessary or desirable to wear a mask the minute you step out of the door. I think it's very important to breathe the fresh air and get your face in the sun, given that that and the hands are the only extremities that will be absorbing any vitamin D at this time. Of course, if other people wish to wear one, that's absolutely fine.
Anyway, thanks for your kind concern - I am glad to have been able to furnish you with an explanation.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Why Khan? If him why not Patel? Only one of them introduced the law.
Because Khan is responsible for the Met
And Patel is responsible for policing.
But it's devolved, isn't it? Not saying Khan is responsible for what happened, but if something is devolved, doesn't the buck stop with the devolved administration?
IF yours truly was a Londoner, based on my lefty leanings would most definitely want to vote for Sadiq Khan.
BUT doubt that I could actually do so, when push comes to shove. Because he seems to be just about totally useless as Mayor.
Is that a fair assessment?
Lead or leave!
He’s not very good but the alternative is Shaun Bailey. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tories thought that having a black man as their candidate made them look modern/progressive and would shut up those on the left who are critical of them in relation issues on race.
Unfortunately, as Bailey appears to be constantly saying the wrong things, that didn’t happen.
IF yours truly was a Londoner, based on my lefty leanings would most definitely want to vote for Sadiq Khan.
BUT doubt that I could actually do so, when push comes to shove. Because he seems to be just about totally useless as Mayor.
Is that a fair assessment?
Lead or leave!
Many seem to think he is useless, but he'll also be reelected with a massive majority, so apparently being useless doesn't have to harm your chances!
A hamster wearing a red rosette would be elected in London. Because most of the Tory-voting demographics have moved out of the capital over the last 10 to 15 years.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Why Khan? If him why not Patel? Only one of them introduced the law.
I understood the London Mayor was responsible for policing in London
Were you calling for the resignation of Boris Johnson following the death of say Ian Tomlinson?
I was not on PB then but Khan has questions to answer
Simple question then, do you think Boris Johnson should have resigned after the death of Ian Tomlinson?
Not simple as I do not know of the case
And I am saying Khan has questions to answer
You said
'The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate'
So if you don't know about the Ian Tomlinson episode then I suggest you stop commentating on Met Police Affairs until you have.
I will comment as I wish and surprised that you are willing to give the London mayor a free pass on this
I'm pointing out you're incredibly ignorant or hypocritical.
I'm not giving the Mayor of London a free pass on this, as others have pointed out the Mayor of London is not responsible for operational decisions, Khan is as much to blame for this as Boris Johnson was for the death of Ian Tomlinson.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Khan may be defacto Met Commissioner on PB, however in name he is not. On that same point both Priti Patel and Boris Johnson could be seen as defacto Police Commissioners, the buck stops with them, however in name they are not. If you are demanding resignations why stop at Khan?
I have never before come across Conservatives being so hostile to the police as an institution. That used to be the sole intellectual property of the mad left.
Nah it is quite common. Belief in the law is based on belief in fairness and equal treatment of people under the law. That principle applies whether you are on the right or the left.
The police in Britain have not been 'fair' or even handed for decades. Nor have they even been particularly competent and, worst of all, when they have fallen down they have done everything they can to cover it up. As has already been mentioned by TSE, if they can collude to stitch up a Cabinet Minister then they can certainly do the same to some poor shmuck on the street. And they do.
Hmm. Seems a bit over the top. I doubt most of the people who are saying it looks bad are suggesting it is only the optics that are bad. People aren't that precise in their language.
Remember a copper went to prison in the last decade for trying to frame a cabinet minister.
If they can try and fit up a cabinet minister then what chance does an ordinary person have against the coppers.
A very disturbing incident that got overlooked by many because a man said a bad thing. And during the events the Police Federation reps flat out lied about a conversation they had with him, which he helpfully recorded.
I am surprised the Tory party isn't more anti police, I remember the seething anger after the arrest of Damian Green.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
As was ever the case. During the Miners' strike I was a Sales Manager for the Courage Brewery. I predominantly worked in Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire, however I had to cross into Rutland which was part of Leicestershire at the time, and a mining county, so police road blocks were in place to enter the county. On one occassion the road block was managed by Met Officers. They kindly offered to help me unload the six sample cases of Courage Directors cans (144 cans) into one of their vans from the boot of my company Cortina. I didn't feel it was in my interests to object.
I mistrust the police as an institution and individual policemen as a rule, however I respect the badge. Undermine them at your peril PB Tories!
Can anyone explain to me, why the Duchess is NOT wearing a face mask in public????
No doubt she's been vaccinated (special category) BUT yours truly has also been jabbed (twice) and I wear the mask.
Because it is the RIGHT thing to do!
The law doesn't require the wearing of masks outside if social distance can be maintained, thank God.
And how wide is the average sidewalk in YOUR part of the world?
We don't have sidewalks, we have pavements.
That's right. And pretty narrow ones for the most part, as far as I can remember. Certainly NOT six-feet in most places.
As freedom-loving Englishmen we have the right of way to use the roads as pedestrians, so can easily step into the road to give other pedestrians a wide berth.
I understand that in the US pedestrians are less free, and are constrained to the sidewalk to make way for automobiles.
Can anyone explain to me, why the Duchess is NOT wearing a face mask in public????
No doubt she's been vaccinated (special category) BUT yours truly has also been jabbed (twice) and I wear the mask.
Because it is the RIGHT thing to do!
The law doesn't require the wearing of masks outside if social distance can be maintained, thank God.
And how wide is the average sidewalk in YOUR part of the world?
We don't have sidewalks, we have pavements.
That's right. And pretty narrow ones for the most part, as far as I can remember. Certainly NOT six-feet in most places.
Personally, I usually step into the road to give people a wider berth, as well as keeping my breath in and inclining the head away. I don't think it's necessary or desirable to wear a mask the minute you step out of the door. I think it's very important to breathe the fresh air and get your face in the sun, given that that and the hands are the only extremities that will be absorbing any vitamin D at this time. Of course, if other people wish to wear one, that's absolutely fine.
Anyway, thanks for your kind concern - I am glad to have been able to furnish you with an explanation.
For which I thank you.
Yours truly puts on a mask when I walk out the door (onto the sidewalk of fairly busy arterial) but I lower it IF there aren't people around. And put it back up whenever they are.
Just to show them I give a shit, about THEIR health. Because I've got my two Pfizer jabs, so am actually of low risk to others, and visa versa.
Personally hate masks, especially as I wear glasses and usually have to take them off and put them somewhere (exactly where I sometimes forget!) whenever I mask up.
However, the notable Irish person I wish to emulate is NOT Typhoid Mary!
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"? I might as well say all Pakistani lawyers are wankers. Do one.
Well I am shocked you have brought race into this part of the discussion, absolutely shocked.
Because it is apposite. Describing "all police" as "jumped up little gits" is as asinine, offensive, and absurd, as a racist saying "all Pakistani doctors are twats". It is a gross and odious generalisation, and does you no favours. Desist.
The vast majority of British police are thoroughly decent human beings trying to do a very hard job, despite inept and often contradictory leadership.
That picture is going to haunt the Met for a very long time. On my Instagram index of relevance it's absolutely everywhere. The big meme accounts are posting about it as well.
The Met have got this completely wrong and heads must roll, starting at the top.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"?
I know a few coppers, as my private hospital has a contract with the Police Federation, so we get a fair few through. Most are decent, but there is an arsehole element in every population. They do seem to to reach higher positions in the police though.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Why Khan? If him why not Patel? Only one of them introduced the law.
Because Khan is responsible for the Met
And Patel is responsible for policing.
But it's devolved, isn't it? Not saying Khan is responsible for what happened, but if something is devolved, doesn't the buck stop with the devolved administration?
It's not quite as simple as that. There is a dual responsibility here, and Home Secretary is ultimately responsible for the appointment of a commissioner:
I think people are able to make a distinction between the two and most of us realise that gang violence doesn't tend to spill over into the wider public. There's usually a pretty big outcry when it does though like that woman bystander who got shot a few years ago, quite a few gang members ended up behind bars after that becuase it forced the Met into action for once.
I don't think we can tackle violence generally if we have this tacit partitioning of crime into the accepted and the outrageous. If nothing else there will be an overlap between the resources, capabilities, and the law that is necessary to deal with violent crime.
So when people demand something is done after the 23rd murder in the capital, because of the circumstances of the victim and alleged perpatrator, I don't expect there to be much success if we broadly ignore the problems that created the other 22 murders. There is a continuum of violence, and offensive behaviour, and the circumstances that leads to it. If you want to make the world safer for women you have to make if safer for everybody, and starting with the most common violent crimes would make a lot more sense than focusing on the rarest.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"? I might as well say all Pakistani lawyers are wankers. Do one.
Well I am shocked you have brought race into this part of the discussion, absolutely shocked.
Because it is apposite. Describing "all police" as "jumped up little gits" is as asinine, offensive, and absurd, as a racist saying "all Pakistani doctors are twats". It is a gross and odious generalisation, and does you no favours. Desist.
The vast majority of British police are thoroughly decent human beings trying to do a very hard job, despite inept and often contradictory leadership.
Thank God you're not a writer as your command of the English language is terrible.
When I talked about the police I was talking about the group, not every single one.
IF yours truly was a Londoner, based on my lefty leanings would most definitely want to vote for Sadiq Khan.
BUT doubt that I could actually do so, when push comes to shove. Because he seems to be just about totally useless as Mayor.
Is that a fair assessment?
Lead or leave!
He’s not very good but the alternative is Shaun Bailey. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tories thought that having a black man as their candidate made them look modern/progressive and would shut up those on the left who are critical of them in relation issues on race.
Unfortunately, as Bailey appears to be constantly saying the wrong things, that didn’t happen.
Don't be ridiculous. Everyone know this is a two horse race between Lawrence Fox and Brian Rose.
Due process? Otherwise she could claim unfair dismissal.
They can sack her (or require her to resign) pretty quickly, even if it is not as immediate as some would like, through proper processes, so should absolutely make sure they don't muck that up.
Can anyone explain to me, why the Duchess is NOT wearing a face mask in public????
No doubt she's been vaccinated (special category) BUT yours truly has also been jabbed (twice) and I wear the mask.
Because it is the RIGHT thing to do!
The law doesn't require the wearing of masks outside if social distance can be maintained, thank God.
And how wide is the average sidewalk in YOUR part of the world?
We don't have sidewalks, we have pavements.
That's right. And pretty narrow ones for the most part, as far as I can remember. Certainly NOT six-feet in most places.
As freedom-loving Englishmen we have the right of way to use the roads as pedestrians, so can easily step into the road to give other pedestrians a wide berth.
I understand that in the US pedestrians are less free, and are constrained to the sidewalk to make way for automobiles.
Actually, that's precisely what many if not most Seattleites have been doing - stepping into the road IF that's an option.
Which is often is, depending on traffic, the biggest practical impediment being cars parallel parked along the street. However, around here usually a grassy border (parking strip) between sidewalk & street. Also most arterials (a word I've only heard used in Seattle, expect by transportation experts) have bike lanes, though that means you have to dodge the bicycles as well as the cars & trucks.
Like everyone who has anything to do with politics I worry about what I say and do being seen as helpful vs. promoting myself or my party. But I posted this on the four local Facebook groups this evening, without any reference to what I do politically. It's had hundreds of "likes" and "loves" and quite a few heart-rending stories from frightened people, as well as prompting a serious discussion of how men can help. Nobody mentioned politics.
Maybe others can do something similar on their local FB boards, if they think it appropriate?
Took part in the doorstep light vigil tonight. We must make sure it's not just a symbolic gesture but a commitment to do better so no woman is frightened, however inadvertently.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"?
I know a few coppers, as my private hospital has a contract with the Police Federation, so we get a fair few through. Most are decent, but there is an arsehole element in every population. They do seem to to reach higher positions in the police though.
It is reasonable to distrust a priori anyone who joins the police.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Why Khan? If him why not Patel? Only one of them introduced the law.
I understood the London Mayor was responsible for policing in London
Were you calling for the resignation of Boris Johnson following the death of say Ian Tomlinson?
I was not on PB then but Khan has questions to answer
Simple question then, do you think Boris Johnson should have resigned after the death of Ian Tomlinson?
Not simple as I do not know of the case
And I am saying Khan has questions to answer
You said
'The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate'
So if you don't know about the Ian Tomlinson episode then I suggest you stop commentating on Met Police Affairs until you have.
I will comment as I wish and surprised that you are willing to give the London mayor a free pass on this
Khan is utterly utterly useless. But to call him out for this almighty balls-up is Shaun Bailey level crap.
Actually the buck stops at Dame Cressida.
She will have to go.
Not only Dick, but senior officers involved in the decision making and how much Khan was consulted must come into it
Have you not been reading the responses to your earlier tacit assertion that Khan should go? If Khan is in the line of fire, why not Patel, why not Johnson? Sack each one of them for all I care, but at least be even handed.
Tim Shipman: "I've lived in London for 24 years. The Met veers between apologetic wokery and moronic brutality. I don't know a single Londoner who thinks they are on their side"
Total. Fucking. Bullshit.
Let him do a shift in a UK cupper's shoes. Especially in London. He wouldn't last half an hour without either doing something *OMFG racist* or getting so angry at obvious crime going non-arrested he would lose his rag
No, he is exactly right. The police, collectively, act out like toddlers.
Tomlinson, De Mendes, even Plebgate all had roots in a certain culture. A culture of complete incapacity to tolerate anything negative being said about them.
Anyone else remember the story of the delegation from ACPoo that went to see Cameron when he became PM. With a list of demands?....
It's the leadership, managerial - and political. We give the police entirely conflicting signals, and warn them an overstep can be career-ending, then we demand perfect policing of controversial political demos.
BLM protestors tried to murder people. I saw it. Should the cops have waded in? Yes, to my mind. It was attempted murder. Yet the cops were clearly told to hang back. Then people complain that lockdown isn't enforced, society is at risk, etc, why are you inactive?
How the F are the coppers meant to know when and where we, as a society, draw a line? We do not even know ourselves
No, the problem is a childish belief that any criticism is "attacking the police". Hence the vigil was an attack.
Hence the belief in ACPoo that allowing the Hillsborough Enquiry to go forward was "declaring war on the Police".
Which they believed was in retaliation for the arrest of Damien Green.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
As was ever the case. During the Miners' strike I was a Sales Manager for the Courage Brewery. I predominantly worked in Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire, however I had to cross into Rutland which was part of Leicestershire at the time, and a mining county, so police road blocks were in place to enter the county. On one occassion the road block was managed by Met Officers. They kindly offered to help me unload the six sample cases of Courage Directors cans (144 cans) into one of their vans from the boot of my company Cortina. I didn't feel it was in my interests to object.
I mistrust the police as an institution and individual policemen as a rule, however I respect the badge. Undermine them at your peril PB Tories!
Dad, ex police (30 years service) tells me the coppers brought in to the miners strike earned so much overtime that they all bought news cars, and called them ‘Arthur’ after a certain miners leader...
I hope some organisation doesn't quibble with her suggestion the movement should 'start' now when they might suggest the movement has been here for ages, not listened to enough.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"? I might as well say all Pakistani lawyers are wankers. Do one.
Well I am shocked you have brought race into this part of the discussion, absolutely shocked.
Because it is apposite. Describing "all police" as "jumped up little gits" is as asinine, offensive, and absurd, as a racist saying "all Pakistani doctors are twats". It is a gross and odious generalisation, and does you no favours. Desist.
The vast majority of British police are thoroughly decent human beings trying to do a very hard job, despite inept and often contradictory leadership.
Thank God you're not a writer as your command of the English language is terrible.
When I talked about the police I was talking about the group, not every single one.
No, you defamed all of them
"On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that."
You did not specify the officers, or the leadership, you simply said "the police" are "jumped up little gits". ie all of them
A nasty slur on on a lot of hard-working women and men doing a very difficult job under a leadership, and political class, which can't make its mind up as to what is allowed and what isn't, as the elite in turn cowers in the face of social media outrage.
Retract. It is best for your soul. We are lucky to have British police, for all their flaws. If you doubt me, fly almost anywhere else
That picture is going to haunt the Met for a very long time. On my Instagram index of relevance it's absolutely everywhere. The big meme accounts are posting about it as well.
The Met have got this completely wrong and heads must roll, starting at the top.
It's a total disaster. From all sides of politics the opprobrium is pouring in.
Dick wont make it to the end of Monday would be my guess now.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
As was ever the case. During the Miners' strike I was a Sales Manager for the Courage Brewery. I predominantly worked in Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire, however I had to cross into Rutland which was part of Leicestershire at the time, and a mining county, so police road blocks were in place to enter the county. On one occassion the road block was managed by Met Officers. They kindly offered to help me unload the six sample cases of Courage Directors cans (144 cans) into one of their vans from the boot of my company Cortina. I didn't feel it was in my interests to object.
I mistrust the police as an institution and individual policemen as a rule, however I respect the badge. Undermine them at your peril PB Tories!
Dad, ex police (30 years service) tells me the coppers brought in to the miners strike earned so much overtime that they all bought news cars, and called them ‘Arthur’ after a certain miners leader...
I heard mortgages paid off and second homes bought, in some cases....
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Why Khan? If him why not Patel? Only one of them introduced the law.
I understood the London Mayor was responsible for policing in London
Were you calling for the resignation of Boris Johnson following the death of say Ian Tomlinson?
I was not on PB then but Khan has questions to answer
Simple question then, do you think Boris Johnson should have resigned after the death of Ian Tomlinson?
Not simple as I do not know of the case
And I am saying Khan has questions to answer
You said
'The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate'
So if you don't know about the Ian Tomlinson episode then I suggest you stop commentating on Met Police Affairs until you have.
I will comment as I wish and surprised that you are willing to give the London mayor a free pass on this
Khan is utterly utterly useless. But to call him out for this almighty balls-up is Shaun Bailey level crap.
Actually the buck stops at Dame Cressida.
She will have to go.
Not only Dick, but senior officers involved in the decision making and how much Khan was consulted must come into it
Have you not been reading the responses to your earlier tacit assertion that Khan should go? If Khan is in the line of fire, why not Patel, why not Johnson? Sack each one of them for all I care, but at least be even handed.
Khan is responsible for policing in London and this was an operational MET matter and it is legitimate to ask was he informed and did he know the action to be taken
If Khan wants to do something positive he must request Dicks resignation
She broke a law we all waved in for the good of us all.
Who needs to take the long look at ourselves?
What's this 'we' business? It's certainly the case that every indication is that the public supported and supports very harsh Covid-19 restrictions, up to when cases like this emerge at least, but 'we' didn't wave in anything.
Our representatives made the call for the reason you give - and this event would not, I think, change whether someone believes it to have been the correct call or not - and they will determine if they are not longer necessary or appropriate. If they did not intend for this sort of thing to be restricted they are very bad at their jobs as it has not been a secret large gatherings are not permitted, and if they did but consider there should be exceptions but didn't list these then they did a not as bad but still poor job not legislating for that.
The law that made tonight happen was put into place in November - and we* all giggled when it was Piers Corbyn.
Now its something serious but its the same fokkin law.
First they came for Piers Corbyn. But because I was not an anti-vaxxer, climate change denialist, I said nothing...
but you still had a wank over that handcuffed redhead, with a knee in her neck ...
Comments
If they aren't necessary (hint - they aren't), they shouldn't be laws. If they are laws, then they should be enforced equally against everybody.
A lot of the problem with policing in this country is because politicians pass unworkable or ridiculous laws, and then expect the police to only go after some offenders. Its not fair on the police, and its not fair on us.
Our society would be a lot better for repealing about 50% of laws, and then making half an attempt at enforceing the 50% that actually should be retained.
"For God's sake make sure the press get a load of photos of burley male police officers pushing young women onto the floor and cuffing them. Gotta stamp out this kind of protest nonsense."
I have never before come across Conservatives being so hostile to the police as an institution. That used to be the sole intellectual property of the mad left.
The Met needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
I am sure you do believe your views to be the right ones. You generally make a good fist of arguing them.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
In Kitsap County, Washington they have a voting precinct named (until recently) "Lost Pavement".
What the feq does that even mean? Did someone come along and steel the roadway? Dr. Moriarty?
1. We've always known that the risk of transmission outside was minimal. It's frustrating that we've been consistently getting this wrong.
2. Why do the police so often misjudge a situation, to make it worse rather than better? Even if you view this as simply enforcing the law, a less confrontational approach would have been more appropriate.
3. Youngish women (say ~30-40 years old) have consistently been the strongest demographic for Labour since at least the days of Blair. If this is the start of a greater degree of political activism from that demographic then it is both an opportunity and a risk for Starmer and Labour.
If they can try and fit up a cabinet minister then what chance does an ordinary person have against the coppers.
It's going to cause drastic trouble when Charles takes over and we have to widen them all by at least half a foot, but on the other hand it will help Boris' Build Back Better stimulus.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1370865138471952386
BUT doubt that I could actually do so, when push comes to shove. Because he seems to be just about totally useless as Mayor.
Is that a fair assessment?
Lead or leave!
This is the kind of decision we ask of our cops every day. What would you do? An angry and righteous demo that turns violent, yet in a volatile political situation?
Personally I think they should have prohibited all demos - left/right, BLM/UKIP, whatever/whenever during Covid. But maybe that was impossible?
https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1271868222040571909?s=20
--AS
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mystery-entire-pavement-stolen-street-23605217
And I am saying Khan has questions to answer
'The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate'
So if you don't know about the Ian Tomlinson episode then I suggest you stop commentating on Met Police Affairs until you have.
Anyway, thanks for your kind concern - I am glad to have been able to furnish you with an explanation.
Unfortunately, as Bailey appears to be constantly saying the wrong things, that didn’t happen.
I'm not giving the Mayor of London a free pass on this, as others have pointed out the Mayor of London is not responsible for operational decisions, Khan is as much to blame for this as Boris Johnson was for the death of Ian Tomlinson.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1370862873417805826
But to call him out for this almighty balls-up is Shaun Bailey level crap.
Actually the buck stops at Dame Cressida.
She will have to go.
The police in Britain have not been 'fair' or even handed for decades. Nor have they even been particularly competent and, worst of all, when they have fallen down they have done everything they can to cover it up. As has already been mentioned by TSE, if they can collude to stitch up a Cabinet Minister then they can certainly do the same to some poor shmuck on the street. And they do.
I mistrust the police as an institution and individual policemen as a rule, however I respect the badge. Undermine them at your peril PB Tories!
I understand that in the US pedestrians are less free, and are constrained to the sidewalk to make way for automobiles.
Yours truly puts on a mask when I walk out the door (onto the sidewalk of fairly busy arterial) but I lower it IF there aren't people around. And put it back up whenever they are.
Just to show them I give a shit, about THEIR health. Because I've got my two Pfizer jabs, so am actually of low risk to others, and visa versa.
Personally hate masks, especially as I wear glasses and usually have to take them off and put them somewhere (exactly where I sometimes forget!) whenever I mask up.
However, the notable Irish person I wish to emulate is NOT Typhoid Mary!
The vast majority of British police are thoroughly decent human beings trying to do a very hard job, despite inept and often contradictory leadership.
The Met have got this completely wrong and heads must roll, starting at the top.
Pretty low threshold by American standards for this to be news. That's the point.
https://www.met.police.uk/police-forces/metropolitan-police/areas/about-us/about-the-met/governance/#:~:text=The Mayor of London was,the Police and Crime Plan.
That said, I think this evening's events would fall under the normal policing of London and so under the mayor's view.
So when people demand something is done after the 23rd murder in the capital, because of the circumstances of the victim and alleged perpatrator, I don't expect there to be much success if we broadly ignore the problems that created the other 22 murders. There is a continuum of violence, and offensive behaviour, and the circumstances that leads to it. If you want to make the world safer for women you have to make if safer for everybody, and starting with the most common violent crimes would make a lot more sense than focusing on the rarest.
When I talked about the police I was talking about the group, not every single one.
Which is often is, depending on traffic, the biggest practical impediment being cars parallel parked along the street. However, around here usually a grassy border (parking strip) between sidewalk & street. Also most arterials (a word I've only heard used in Seattle, expect by transportation experts) have bike lanes, though that means you have to dodge the bicycles as well as the cars & trucks.
Maybe others can do something similar on their local FB boards, if they think it appropriate?
Took part in the doorstep light vigil tonight. We must make sure it's not just a symbolic gesture but a commitment to do better so no woman is frightened, however inadvertently.
https://scontent.ffab1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160236099_10159195115679592_6888788231095973199_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=RqN27jg54qcAX8kS-yI&_nc_ht=scontent.ffab1-1.fna&oh=9e42acfaac75a9dcc7b9a8c7a632750f&oe=60732CD1
Ditto politicians.
Hence the belief in ACPoo that allowing the Hillsborough Enquiry to go forward was "declaring war on the Police".
Which they believed was in retaliation for the arrest of Damien Green.
https://twitter.com/brianpaddick/status/1370851695236907014?s=20
Just not a huge fan of the current Archbish, though I am sure he has his merits.
"On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that."
You did not specify the officers, or the leadership, you simply said "the police" are "jumped up little gits". ie all of them
A nasty slur on on a lot of hard-working women and men doing a very difficult job under a leadership, and political class, which can't make its mind up as to what is allowed and what isn't, as the elite in turn cowers in the face of social media outrage.
Retract. It is best for your soul. We are lucky to have British police, for all their flaws. If you doubt me, fly almost anywhere else
Dick wont make it to the end of Monday would be my guess now.
If Cressida Dick resigns overnight, I'm not ignoring it, I'll be in bed.
She should then pass it to Oprah....
If Khan wants to do something positive he must request Dicks resignation
(Ok, I'll stop)