On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
As was ever the case. During the Miners' strike I was a Sales Manager for the Courage Brewery. I predominantly worked in Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire, however I had to cross into Rutland which was part of Leicestershire at the time, and a mining county, so police road blocks were in place to enter the county. On one occassion the road block was managed by Met Officers. They kindly offered to help me unload the six sample cases of Courage Directors cans (144 cans) into one of their vans from the boot of my company Cortina. I didn't feel it was in my interests to object.
I mistrust the police as an institution and individual policemen as a rule, however I respect the badge. Undermine them at your peril PB Tories!
Dad, ex police (30 years service) tells me the coppers brought in to the miners strike earned so much overtime that they all bought news cars, and called them ‘Arthur’ after a certain miners leader...
Ironic really, as Arthur's stewardship of the NUM during the strike meant many miners had to sell theirs to feed the children.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Why Khan? If him why not Patel? Only one of them introduced the law.
I understood the London Mayor was responsible for policing in London
Were you calling for the resignation of Boris Johnson following the death of say Ian Tomlinson?
I was not on PB then but Khan has questions to answer
Simple question then, do you think Boris Johnson should have resigned after the death of Ian Tomlinson?
Not simple as I do not know of the case
And I am saying Khan has questions to answer
You said
'The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate'
So if you don't know about the Ian Tomlinson episode then I suggest you stop commentating on Met Police Affairs until you have.
I will comment as I wish and surprised that you are willing to give the London mayor a free pass on this
Khan is utterly utterly useless. But to call him out for this almighty balls-up is Shaun Bailey level crap.
Actually the buck stops at Dame Cressida.
She will have to go.
Not only Dick, but senior officers involved in the decision making and how much Khan was consulted must come into it
Have you not been reading the responses to your earlier tacit assertion that Khan should go? If Khan is in the line of fire, why not Patel, why not Johnson? Sack each one of them for all I care, but at least be even handed.
One may also argue. If the Met is not fit for purpose why should the guy who has had 4 years to not reform it go and not the previous one who had twice as long to do bugger all? Whatever became of him?
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
As was ever the case. During the Miners' strike I was a Sales Manager for the Courage Brewery. I predominantly worked in Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire, however I had to cross into Rutland which was part of Leicestershire at the time, and a mining county, so police road blocks were in place to enter the county. On one occassion the road block was managed by Met Officers. They kindly offered to help me unload the six sample cases of Courage Directors cans (144 cans) into one of their vans from the boot of my company Cortina. I didn't feel it was in my interests to object.
I mistrust the police as an institution and individual policemen as a rule, however I respect the badge. Undermine them at your peril PB Tories!
Dad, ex police (30 years service) tells me the coppers brought in to the miners strike earned so much overtime that they all bought news cars, and called them ‘Arthur’ after a certain miners leader...
Yep - that is true
But the stories I heard were of paying mortgages off.
Certain officers also admitted they loved the ructions
That picture is going to haunt the Met for a very long time. On my Instagram index of relevance it's absolutely everywhere. The big meme accounts are posting about it as well.
The Met have got this completely wrong and heads must roll, starting at the top.
It's a total disaster. From all sides of politics the opprobrium is pouring in.
Dick wont make it to the end of Monday would be my guess now.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"?
I know a few coppers, as my private hospital has a contract with the Police Federation, so we get a fair few through. Most are decent, but there is an arsehole element in every population. They do seem to to reach higher positions in the police though.
It is reasonable to distrust a priori anyone who joins the police.
Ditto politicians.
No, I would disagree with that. Most police recruits go in idealistic.
The problem is that with a clientele that shows the worst of people, it is hard to maintain a moral compass. They are constantly surrounded by appalling acts and people, as part of the job, and that shifts their understanding of normality. It is hard not to be cultured into a very cynical view of humanity. They lose perspective, and their bearings.
It is a position that I have seen people give in to, whether coppers, prison officers, military and yes the medical profession too. The abnormal becomes the norm, and the public become prey.
Looking at social media (Facebook anyway) the public are backing the police on this one. I can’t say I’m surprised as pretty much all polling has shown a society paralysed by fear of super spreaders, covid parties and people failing to do their bit for public health.
This story is another huge elephant trap for Labour to see which side of the fence they back - public health and the police or those ignoring the law. Yet again I feel they’ve rushed into their response when they should have waited. Unlikely as it is Khan loses in May, something like his failure to back the Police and condemn the protests could be the black swan event that costs him the election. Probably not though given it’ll win him a few more votes from the left.
You need to get with the picture. The laws are fine - it's the police that are in the wrong.
So says most of PB.
The laws may be wrong, but poor handling of a protest doesn't really speak to that one way or another, since the arguments for and against are unchanged.
I have similar concerns about the police to Cyclefree. The courts are clearly crippled as a result of cuts. However the main problem here is that they are supposed to be overseeing the semi house arrest of the entire population. I'm not sure how you do that in a liberal democracy if the consent of the people breaks down. I haven't been following the evening news but we can decide in the coming days if the police should have acted differently.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Khan may be defacto Met Commissioner on PB, however in name he is not. On that same point both Priti Patel and Boris Johnson could be seen as defacto Police Commissioners, the buck stops with them, however in name they are not. If you are demanding resignations why stop at Khan?
I have never before come across Conservatives being so hostile to the police as an institution. That used to be the sole intellectual property of the mad left.
Nah it is quite common. Belief in the law is based on belief in fairness and equal treatment of people under the law. That principle applies whether you are on the right or the left.
The police in Britain have not been 'fair' or even handed for decades. Nor have they even been particularly competent and, worst of all, when they have fallen down they have done everything they can to cover it up. As has already been mentioned by TSE, if they can collude to stitch up a Cabinet Minister then they can certainly do the same to some poor shmuck on the street. And they do.
I was once knocked off my bicycle by a driver who left me his phone number, but left the scene before the police arrived. The police were narked because they have an obligation to perform a breathalyser test at every RTC, so they had to track him down.
The driver wasn't answering his phone. As the police gave me a lift to my daughter's school, they gave me an insight to their philosophy as they explained that they didn't yet know what type of person the driver was.
He could have an innocent explanation for not answering his phone. He could be a perfectly decent individual who had just made a few mistakes. A good person.
Or, he could be one of them. The bad guys. He could have given me a fake phone number and scarpered.
And that way of thinking is a big problem. I can understand why they use it. A lot of the time it can keep them out of trouble.
But if they've decided you are one of the bad guys then you're never going to get a fair break. Will cause no end of issues.
Bit surprised to see the police decide that middle class white women as the bad guys though. Not normally the demographic that fits the stereotype.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
As was ever the case. During the Miners' strike I was a Sales Manager for the Courage Brewery. I predominantly worked in Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire, however I had to cross into Rutland which was part of Leicestershire at the time, and a mining county, so police road blocks were in place to enter the county. On one occassion the road block was managed by Met Officers. They kindly offered to help me unload the six sample cases of Courage Directors cans (144 cans) into one of their vans from the boot of my company Cortina. I didn't feel it was in my interests to object.
I mistrust the police as an institution and individual policemen as a rule, however I respect the badge. Undermine them at your peril PB Tories!
Dad, ex police (30 years service) tells me the coppers brought in to the miners strike earned so much overtime that they all bought news cars, and called them ‘Arthur’ after a certain miners leader...
Yep - that is true
But the stories I heard were of paying mortgages off.
Certain officers also admitted they loved the ructions
One of the factoids that emerged from the flap over policing in Seattle last year, was the tremendous amount of overtime pay & associated benefits (such as pension impacts) by SPD officers in recent years.
Was also a dustup a few years previous, regarding the wide-spread hiring of off-duty Seattle cops, by developers & the like, for directing traffic near construction sites. Turned out there was a VERY tight little coterie within SPD that made sure these coveted opportunities (wearing full police uniform including firearms) went exclusively to the in-crowd within the dept.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Why Khan? If him why not Patel? Only one of them introduced the law.
I understood the London Mayor was responsible for policing in London
Were you calling for the resignation of Boris Johnson following the death of say Ian Tomlinson?
I was not on PB then but Khan has questions to answer
Simple question then, do you think Boris Johnson should have resigned after the death of Ian Tomlinson?
Not simple as I do not know of the case
And I am saying Khan has questions to answer
You said
'The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate'
So if you don't know about the Ian Tomlinson episode then I suggest you stop commentating on Met Police Affairs until you have.
I will comment as I wish and surprised that you are willing to give the London mayor a free pass on this
Khan is utterly utterly useless. But to call him out for this almighty balls-up is Shaun Bailey level crap.
Actually the buck stops at Dame Cressida.
She will have to go.
Not only Dick, but senior officers involved in the decision making and how much Khan was consulted must come into it
Have you not been reading the responses to your earlier tacit assertion that Khan should go? If Khan is in the line of fire, why not Patel, why not Johnson? Sack each one of them for all I care, but at least be even handed.
Khan is responsible for policing in London and this was an operational MET matter and it is legitimate to ask was he informed and did he know the action to be taken
If Khan wants to do something positive he must request Dicks resignation
If there is a vote in it for him, I daresay he will.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"?
I know a few coppers, as my private hospital has a contract with the Police Federation, so we get a fair few through. Most are decent, but there is an arsehole element in every population. They do seem to to reach higher positions in the police though.
It is reasonable to distrust a priori anyone who joins the police.
Ditto politicians.
No, I would disagree with that. Most police recruits go in idealistic.
The problem is that with a clientele that shows the worst of people, it is hard to maintain a moral compass. They are constantly surrounded by appalling acts and people, as part of the job, and that shifts their understanding of normality. It is hard not to be cultured into a very cynical view of humanity. They lose perspective, and their bearings.
It is a position that I have seen people give in to, whether coppers, prison officers, military and yes the medical profession too. The abnormal becomes the norm, and the public become prey.
One change that has bad effects in America and here is the optimisation of police resources.
Which means that the police don't wander round the "good" parts of town and interact with ordinary citizens as much as they used to.
When I lived in Wiltshire, they were just moving from having police living and working in the town, to having a police car occasionally drive through......
Remember a copper went to prison in the last decade for trying to frame a cabinet minister.
If they can try and fit up a cabinet minister then what chance does an ordinary person have against the coppers.
A very disturbing incident that got overlooked by many because a man said a bad thing. And during the events the Police Federation reps flat out lied about a conversation they had with him, which he helpfully recorded.
I am surprised the Tory party isn't more anti police, I remember the seething anger after the arrest of Damian Green.
You need to get with the picture. The laws are fine - it's the police that are in the wrong.
So says most of PB.
The laws may be wrong, but poor handling of a protest doesn't really speak to that one way or another, since the arguments for and against are unchanged.
I know politicians are supposed to stay out of day to day decision making on how the police do their job, but this really ought to have been avoided. The politicians needed to talk this through with the Met and work out how best to prevent this scenario occurring. If that meant quashing the convictions of Piers Corbyn et al to avoid trouble from them, then so be it.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Why Khan? If him why not Patel? Only one of them introduced the law.
I understood the London Mayor was responsible for policing in London
Were you calling for the resignation of Boris Johnson following the death of say Ian Tomlinson?
I was not on PB then but Khan has questions to answer
Simple question then, do you think Boris Johnson should have resigned after the death of Ian Tomlinson?
Not simple as I do not know of the case
And I am saying Khan has questions to answer
You said
'The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate'
So if you don't know about the Ian Tomlinson episode then I suggest you stop commentating on Met Police Affairs until you have.
I will comment as I wish and surprised that you are willing to give the London mayor a free pass on this
Khan is utterly utterly useless. But to call him out for this almighty balls-up is Shaun Bailey level crap.
Actually the buck stops at Dame Cressida.
She will have to go.
Not only Dick, but senior officers involved in the decision making and how much Khan was consulted must come into it
Have you not been reading the responses to your earlier tacit assertion that Khan should go? If Khan is in the line of fire, why not Patel, why not Johnson? Sack each one of them for all I care, but at least be even handed.
I feel far too junior on this forum to wade into such a controversy but here goes. Surely it is the case that if the police can't choose what laws they enforce they can choose how they enforce it. If these vigils were breaking COVID regulations the police still didn't have to rush in and handcuff people. Couldn't they have handed out fine tickets or something? It's possible to support a law but condemn how it's enforced. After the storming of the Capitol the US police didn't charge in and start breaking heads the minute the curfew came into effect. They waited a bit until the majority drifted away and then dealt with the stragglers. That's called discretion and it avoided even more bloodshed.
Remember a copper went to prison in the last decade for trying to frame a cabinet minister.
If they can try and fit up a cabinet minister then what chance does an ordinary person have against the coppers.
A very disturbing incident that got overlooked by many because a man said a bad thing. And during the events the Police Federation reps flat out lied about a conversation they had with him, which he helpfully recorded.
I am surprised the Tory party isn't more anti police, I remember the seething anger after the arrest of Damian Green.
Plebgate was worse, much worse.
I always thought the bit when ACPoo *demanded* that the Hillsborough Enquiry not go ahead, was an interesting moment.
And the subsequent claim that it was a "declaration of war on the police", equally interesting.
Final suggestion, the police will only get better when they wear body cameras permanently.
My police officer friend says a big event this year will be the trial of the officers who tasered Dalian Atkinson. My friend refuses to carry a taser because he fears he could end up in prison for doing his job.
Depending on how that case goes, we could be looking at the end of tasers being an option for the police.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"?
I know a few coppers, as my private hospital has a contract with the Police Federation, so we get a fair few through. Most are decent, but there is an arsehole element in every population. They do seem to to reach higher positions in the police though.
It is reasonable to distrust a priori anyone who joins the police.
Ditto politicians.
No, I would disagree with that. Most police recruits go in idealistic.
The problem is that with a clientele that shows the worst of people, it is hard to maintain a moral compass. They are constantly surrounded by appalling acts and people, as part of the job, and that shifts their understanding of normality. It is hard not to be cultured into a very cynical view of humanity. They lose perspective, and their bearings.
It is a position that I have seen people give in to, whether coppers, prison officers, military and yes the medical profession too. The abnormal becomes the norm, and the public become prey.
One change that has bad effects in America and here is the optimisation of police resources.
Which means that the police don't wander round the "good" parts of town and interact with ordinary citizens as much as they used to.
When I lived in Wiltshire, they were just moving from having police living and working in the town, to having a police car occasionally drive through......
I would agree. Police, social workers, military need to be away from the front lines regularly, for training and also interacting with normal society in order to gain perspective.
Final suggestion, the police will only get better when they wear body cameras permanently.
A very simple measure that seems reasonable. What are the rules on it at present? Some people will object to being filmed as much as some police will not want to film, but there are ways around that in terms of rules on how footage is recorded and stored etc.
I'd say you can. There's a world of difference in how you can, say, clear a space, if the law says they can clear it. There's also the decision of whether it is in the public interest to charge someone.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"?
I know a few coppers, as my private hospital has a contract with the Police Federation, so we get a fair few through. Most are decent, but there is an arsehole element in every population. They do seem to to reach higher positions in the police though.
It is reasonable to distrust a priori anyone who joins the police.
Ditto politicians.
No, I would disagree with that. Most police recruits go in idealistic.
The problem is that with a clientele that shows the worst of people, it is hard to maintain a moral compass. They are constantly surrounded by appalling acts and people, as part of the job, and that shifts their understanding of normality. It is hard not to be cultured into a very cynical view of humanity. They lose perspective, and their bearings.
It is a position that I have seen people give in to, whether coppers, prison officers, military and yes the medical profession too. The abnormal becomes the norm, and the public become prey.
Yes, that's quite accurate, in my experience. And I know a few coppers.
The job warps them - as do our demands on them, politically and morally. But most STILL try to do their best, in a fucking difficult job, where they get little respect (as we see on here).
And, I say again, if you hate the British police (like the ludicrous TSE) then I challenge you to go abroad and find a *better* police force. It is exceedingly hard to be simultaneously effective and admired as a police force, in any multiracial nation over 20m in population. It is not hard to amiably police the Scilly Isles
I feel far too junior on this forum to wade into such a controversy but here goes. Surely it is the case that if the police can't choose what laws they enforce they can choose how they enforce it. If these vigils were breaking COVID regulations the police still didn't have to rush in and handcuff people. Couldn't they have handed out fine tickets or something? It's possible to support a law but condemn how it's enforced. After the storming of the Capitol the US police didn't charge in and start breaking heads the minute the curfew came into effect. They waited a bit until the majority drifted away and then dealt with the stragglers. That's called discretion and it avoided even more bloodshed.
Which is exactly why the police were acting like idiots in this case.
Though, discretion involves deciding which laws to use, as well.
After all, you could use all the anti-terrorism laws to lock up suspects in just about any case. The abuse of the earlier PTA shows that.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Khan may be defacto Met Commissioner on PB, however in name he is not. On that same point both Priti Patel and Boris Johnson could be seen as defacto Police Commissioners, the buck stops with them, however in name they are not. If you are demanding resignations why stop at Khan?
I have never before come across Conservatives being so hostile to the police as an institution. That used to be the sole intellectual property of the mad left.
Nah it is quite common. Belief in the law is based on belief in fairness and equal treatment of people under the law. That principle applies whether you are on the right or the left.
The police in Britain have not been 'fair' or even handed for decades. Nor have they even been particularly competent and, worst of all, when they have fallen down they have done everything they can to cover it up. As has already been mentioned by TSE, if they can collude to stitch up a Cabinet Minister then they can certainly do the same to some poor shmuck on the street. And they do.
I was once knocked off my bicycle by a driver who left me his phone number, but left the scene before the police arrived. The police were narked because they have an obligation to perform a breathalyser test at every RTC, so they had to track him down.
The driver wasn't answering his phone. As the police gave me a lift to my daughter's school, they gave me an insight to their philosophy as they explained that they didn't yet know what type of person the driver was.
He could have an innocent explanation for not answering his phone. He could be a perfectly decent individual who had just made a few mistakes. A good person.
Or, he could be one of them. The bad guys. He could have given me a fake phone number and scarpered.
And that way of thinking is a big problem. I can understand why they use it. A lot of the time it can keep them out of trouble.
But if they've decided you are one of the bad guys then you're never going to get a fair break. Will cause no end of issues.
Bit surprised to see the police decide that middle class white women as the bad guys though. Not normally the demographic that fits the stereotype.
Ah the "make the evidence fit the suspect" school of policing. It's definitely something the Met suffers from, someone I know who is very close had that issue with them. Luckily that person had enough money and wherewithal to fight it with expensive solicitors. I fear for those who don't have that, as TSE pointed out previously. We only hear about the cases where the malpractice has been uncovered by top solicitors. What happens to the young black man who has had drugs planted on his person during a search?
Many would contend that there's already a Dick at Lambeth Palace.
Makes you proud that alongside Iran we're the only/few countries who put unelected clergy into our parliaments.
As the Church of England is our established church, the Catholic Church has cardinals represented in the governing body in the Vatican city, Iran is the centre of Shia Islam so in turn has clergy within its legislature
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"?
I know a few coppers, as my private hospital has a contract with the Police Federation, so we get a fair few through. Most are decent, but there is an arsehole element in every population. They do seem to to reach higher positions in the police though.
It is reasonable to distrust a priori anyone who joins the police.
Ditto politicians.
No, I would disagree with that. Most police recruits go in idealistic.
The problem is that with a clientele that shows the worst of people, it is hard to maintain a moral compass. They are constantly surrounded by appalling acts and people, as part of the job, and that shifts their understanding of normality. It is hard not to be cultured into a very cynical view of humanity. They lose perspective, and their bearings.
It is a position that I have seen people give in to, whether coppers, prison officers, military and yes the medical profession too. The abnormal becomes the norm, and the public become prey.
One change that has bad effects in America and here is the optimisation of police resources.
Which means that the police don't wander round the "good" parts of town and interact with ordinary citizens as much as they used to.
When I lived in Wiltshire, they were just moving from having police living and working in the town, to having a police car occasionally drive through......
I would agree. Police, social workers, military need to be away from the front lines regularly, for training and also interacting with normal society in order to gain perspective.
A friend, who was Special Constable, thought that the police could do with a much bigger program of Specials to help de-programming the them-vs-us mentality he came across.
Is it just me, or is everyone behaving irrationally and losing their good sense over the strangest things this past couple of weeks? Everything seems magnified for both good and ill. I mean both personally and politically.
Due process? Otherwise she could claim unfair dismissal.
They can sack her (or require her to resign) pretty quickly, even if it is not as immediate as some would like, through proper processes, so should absolutely make sure they don't muck that up.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Why Khan? If him why not Patel? Only one of them introduced the law.
I understood the London Mayor was responsible for policing in London
Were you calling for the resignation of Boris Johnson following the death of say Ian Tomlinson?
I was not on PB then but Khan has questions to answer
Simple question then, do you think Boris Johnson should have resigned after the death of Ian Tomlinson?
Not simple as I do not know of the case
And I am saying Khan has questions to answer
You said
'The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate'
So if you don't know about the Ian Tomlinson episode then I suggest you stop commentating on Met Police Affairs until you have.
I will comment as I wish and surprised that you are willing to give the London mayor a free pass on this
Khan is utterly utterly useless. But to call him out for this almighty balls-up is Shaun Bailey level crap.
Actually the buck stops at Dame Cressida.
She will have to go.
Not only Dick, but senior officers involved in the decision making and how much Khan was consulted must come into it
Have you not been reading the responses to your earlier tacit assertion that Khan should go? If Khan is in the line of fire, why not Patel, why not Johnson? Sack each one of them for all I care, but at least be even handed.
At least he’s not dragged Drakeford into it.
Yet.
Well the two police BMWs in the header picture are North Wales Police cars, so I think he is perfectly entitled to demand Drakeford's head.
I feel far too junior on this forum to wade into such a controversy but here goes. Surely it is the case that if the police can't choose what laws they enforce they can choose how they enforce it. If these vigils were breaking COVID regulations the police still didn't have to rush in and handcuff people. Couldn't they have handed out fine tickets or something? It's possible to support a law but condemn how it's enforced. After the storming of the Capitol the US police didn't charge in and start breaking heads the minute the curfew came into effect. They waited a bit until the majority drifted away and then dealt with the stragglers. That's called discretion and it avoided even more bloodshed.
Typical for old-school protests in the US in general and Seattle in particular, to feature what you could call orchestrated, indeed choreographed acts of non-violent civil disobedience.
This occurs when you had a core group of semi-experienced leaders, who reach out proactively to the police, telling them just what they plan to do and when they plan to do it. Then they work out the details with the cops.
So when the day comes, the leaders tell the protesters what to expect and what the limits are, then a selected group volunteer themselves to be arrested, with a minimum of fuss and mess for both themselves and the forces of order.
HOWEVER, this can break down if & when there is no protest leadership to speak of, OR when the numbers & emotions get out of hand OR there is a breakdown in communications between police & protesters.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Khan may be defacto Met Commissioner on PB, however in name he is not. On that same point both Priti Patel and Boris Johnson could be seen as defacto Police Commissioners, the buck stops with them, however in name they are not. If you are demanding resignations why stop at Khan?
I have never before come across Conservatives being so hostile to the police as an institution. That used to be the sole intellectual property of the mad left.
Nah it is quite common. Belief in the law is based on belief in fairness and equal treatment of people under the law. That principle applies whether you are on the right or the left.
The police in Britain have not been 'fair' or even handed for decades. Nor have they even been particularly competent and, worst of all, when they have fallen down they have done everything they can to cover it up. As has already been mentioned by TSE, if they can collude to stitch up a Cabinet Minister then they can certainly do the same to some poor shmuck on the street. And they do.
I was once knocked off my bicycle by a driver who left me his phone number, but left the scene before the police arrived. The police were narked because they have an obligation to perform a breathalyser test at every RTC, so they had to track him down.
The driver wasn't answering his phone. As the police gave me a lift to my daughter's school, they gave me an insight to their philosophy as they explained that they didn't yet know what type of person the driver was.
He could have an innocent explanation for not answering his phone. He could be a perfectly decent individual who had just made a few mistakes. A good person.
Or, he could be one of them. The bad guys. He could have given me a fake phone number and scarpered.
And that way of thinking is a big problem. I can understand why they use it. A lot of the time it can keep them out of trouble.
But if they've decided you are one of the bad guys then you're never going to get a fair break. Will cause no end of issues.
Bit surprised to see the police decide that middle class white women as the bad guys though. Not normally the demographic that fits the stereotype.
Did the driver turn out to be a very boring, middle aged man from North London?
Remember a copper went to prison in the last decade for trying to frame a cabinet minister.
If they can try and fit up a cabinet minister then what chance does an ordinary person have against the coppers.
A very disturbing incident that got overlooked by many because a man said a bad thing. And during the events the Police Federation reps flat out lied about a conversation they had with him, which he helpfully recorded.
I am surprised the Tory party isn't more anti police, I remember the seething anger after the arrest of Damian Green.
Plebgate was worse, much worse.
I always thought the bit when ACPoo *demanded* that the Hillsborough Enquiry not go ahead, was an interesting moment.
And the subsequent claim that it was a "declaration of war on the police", equally interesting.
They are often their own worst enemies, as @Cyclefree somewhat presciently pointed out.
On topic, I've said for years the police are jumped up little gits.
Anyone who has ever dealt with them professionally can attest to that.
What, all 150,000 of them? They are all "jumped up little gits"?
I know a few coppers, as my private hospital has a contract with the Police Federation, so we get a fair few through. Most are decent, but there is an arsehole element in every population. They do seem to to reach higher positions in the police though.
It is reasonable to distrust a priori anyone who joins the police.
Ditto politicians.
No, I would disagree with that. Most police recruits go in idealistic.
The problem is that with a clientele that shows the worst of people, it is hard to maintain a moral compass. They are constantly surrounded by appalling acts and people, as part of the job, and that shifts their understanding of normality. It is hard not to be cultured into a very cynical view of humanity. They lose perspective, and their bearings.
It is a position that I have seen people give in to, whether coppers, prison officers, military and yes the medical profession too. The abnormal becomes the norm, and the public become prey.
One change that has bad effects in America and here is the optimisation of police resources.
Which means that the police don't wander round the "good" parts of town and interact with ordinary citizens as much as they used to.
When I lived in Wiltshire, they were just moving from having police living and working in the town, to having a police car occasionally drive through......
I moved to this town (small, Herts commuter belt) about eleven years ago. I distinctly remember a couple of years ago being very surprised to see a police foot patrol one afternoon. I can't swear blind that it's the only one I've ever encountered here, but it quite likely was.
Of course, this is not a surprise. As you say, the police have finite resources and really don't bother very much with low crime areas. You don't even see cop cars very often.
Generally speaking nothing much happens around here, but I think we've had two murders. Both cases of women being killed in their own homes by their partners.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Khan may be defacto Met Commissioner on PB, however in name he is not. On that same point both Priti Patel and Boris Johnson could be seen as defacto Police Commissioners, the buck stops with them, however in name they are not. If you are demanding resignations why stop at Khan?
I have never before come across Conservatives being so hostile to the police as an institution. That used to be the sole intellectual property of the mad left.
Nah it is quite common. Belief in the law is based on belief in fairness and equal treatment of people under the law. That principle applies whether you are on the right or the left.
The police in Britain have not been 'fair' or even handed for decades. Nor have they even been particularly competent and, worst of all, when they have fallen down they have done everything they can to cover it up. As has already been mentioned by TSE, if they can collude to stitch up a Cabinet Minister then they can certainly do the same to some poor shmuck on the street. And they do.
I was once knocked off my bicycle by a driver who left me his phone number, but left the scene before the police arrived. The police were narked because they have an obligation to perform a breathalyser test at every RTC, so they had to track him down.
The driver wasn't answering his phone. As the police gave me a lift to my daughter's school, they gave me an insight to their philosophy as they explained that they didn't yet know what type of person the driver was.
He could have an innocent explanation for not answering his phone. He could be a perfectly decent individual who had just made a few mistakes. A good person.
Or, he could be one of them. The bad guys. He could have given me a fake phone number and scarpered.
And that way of thinking is a big problem. I can understand why they use it. A lot of the time it can keep them out of trouble.
But if they've decided you are one of the bad guys then you're never going to get a fair break. Will cause no end of issues.
Bit surprised to see the police decide that middle class white women as the bad guys though. Not normally the demographic that fits the stereotype.
Well, they were protesting about a death involving a police officer. Which meant they were critiquing the police. Which meant they were attacking the police...
Maybe the police have overstepped the mark but I can't help but feel there are a lot of people who are appalled at the policing of a 'good' protest but would be perfectly happy with the policing if it were a 'bad' protest i.e anti-lockdown, far right etc.
In all of this the one thing missing by the MET was plain common sense
The leadership are going to have to resign over this and I have no idea how Khan avoids the same fate
Khan may be defacto Met Commissioner on PB, however in name he is not. On that same point both Priti Patel and Boris Johnson could be seen as defacto Police Commissioners, the buck stops with them, however in name they are not. If you are demanding resignations why stop at Khan?
I have never before come across Conservatives being so hostile to the police as an institution. That used to be the sole intellectual property of the mad left.
Nah it is quite common. Belief in the law is based on belief in fairness and equal treatment of people under the law. That principle applies whether you are on the right or the left.
The police in Britain have not been 'fair' or even handed for decades. Nor have they even been particularly competent and, worst of all, when they have fallen down they have done everything they can to cover it up. As has already been mentioned by TSE, if they can collude to stitch up a Cabinet Minister then they can certainly do the same to some poor shmuck on the street. And they do.
I was once knocked off my bicycle by a driver who left me his phone number, but left the scene before the police arrived. The police were narked because they have an obligation to perform a breathalyser test at every RTC, so they had to track him down.
The driver wasn't answering his phone. As the police gave me a lift to my daughter's school, they gave me an insight to their philosophy as they explained that they didn't yet know what type of person the driver was.
He could have an innocent explanation for not answering his phone. He could be a perfectly decent individual who had just made a few mistakes. A good person.
Or, he could be one of them. The bad guys. He could have given me a fake phone number and scarpered.
And that way of thinking is a big problem. I can understand why they use it. A lot of the time it can keep them out of trouble.
But if they've decided you are one of the bad guys then you're never going to get a fair break. Will cause no end of issues.
Bit surprised to see the police decide that middle class white women as the bad guys though. Not normally the demographic that fits the stereotype.
Ah the "make the evidence fit the suspect" school of policing. It's definitely something the Met suffers from, someone I know who is very close had that issue with them. Luckily that person had enough money and wherewithal to fight it with expensive solicitors. I fear for those who don't have that, as TSE pointed out previously. We only hear about the cases where the malpractice has been uncovered by top solicitors. What happens to the young black man who has had drugs planted on his person during a search?
As a junior doctor, I lived in an iner city hospital house. Next door was a halfway house for semirehabilitated drug offenders. One day I got the knock on the door, and appeared on the doorstep, bleary and in old t shirt and shorts. The copper on the doorstep said that I had been seen the day before stealing petrol and putting it in my car, giving me the licence plate of my car. I needed to come to the station with him.
I asked if I could ring the hospital as I was due back on duty that PM. Instant change of attitude. Obviously a mistake had been made etc. If he had called on my neighbours they would be banged up again.
Remember a copper went to prison in the last decade for trying to frame a cabinet minister.
If they can try and fit up a cabinet minister then what chance does an ordinary person have against the coppers.
A very disturbing incident that got overlooked by many because a man said a bad thing. And during the events the Police Federation reps flat out lied about a conversation they had with him, which he helpfully recorded.
I am surprised the Tory party isn't more anti police, I remember the seething anger after the arrest of Damian Green.
Plebgate was worse, much worse.
I always thought the bit when ACPoo *demanded* that the Hillsborough Enquiry not go ahead, was an interesting moment.
And the subsequent claim that it was a "declaration of war on the police", equally interesting.
They are often their own worst enemies, as @Cyclefree somewhat presciently pointed out.
Yup. They managed to escalate the death of Ian Tomlinson spectacularly, spectacularly. If they had left it alone, someone moderately comment would have carried out the autopsy and undoubtedly found that it was a mostly accidental death.
Maybe the police have overstepped the mark but I can't help but feel there are a lot of people who are appalled at the policing of a 'good' protest but would be perfectly happy with the policing if it were a 'bad' protest i.e anti-lockdown, far right etc.
The ITV news piece on fbook has thousands of comments backing the Met and blaming the ‘super spreaders’.
Do we think the Twitter commentators and some of the politicians have massively misjudged the public mood again?
Yes, there are lots of authoritarians in the country who love oppressive covid laws and zero-tolerance policing. They might even be in the majority.
Your point is?
My point is those to rush in to critique the Met will IMO be on the wrong side of public opinion. I’m not authoritarian but also believe in law and order, and I can disagree with a law but also want said law to be policed. In this case that is exactly what happened.
It doesn’t help matters that most of the decent people had paid their respects and long departed the scene when fringe groups like Sisters Uncut sought to exploit the poor girl’s death for their own radical agenda and publicity. The Met were caught between a rock and a hard place.
Maybe the police have overstepped the mark but I can't help but feel there are a lot of people who are appalled at the policing of a 'good' protest but would be perfectly happy with the policing if it were a 'bad' protest i.e anti-lockdown, far right etc.
Or BLM, XRebellion...
What's your point? Police have gone incredibly soft on both of those.
Ultimately, they came for Piers Corbyn, and no one complained. This is where it leads.
Maybe the police have overstepped the mark but I can't help but feel there are a lot of people who are appalled at the policing of a 'good' protest but would be perfectly happy with the policing if it were a 'bad' protest i.e anti-lockdown, far right etc.
Or BLM, XRebellion...
Oh the police had no problem with the BLM protests. As for extinction rebellion, I thought they lost most of their support with their stupid stunts last year?
Maybe the police have overstepped the mark but I can't help but feel there are a lot of people who are appalled at the policing of a 'good' protest but would be perfectly happy with the policing if it were a 'bad' protest i.e anti-lockdown, far right etc.
Or BLM, XRebellion...
Yes, I'm probably thinking about my own social media friends who wouldn't think of criticising BLM.
I had a very convivial zoom quiz this evening and coming to this late. I know it will all have been covered but what in the name of god was the Met playing at?!!!
“Shall we negotiate and try and defuse the situation Sir/Mam?”
“Nah, sod it lets crack heads”.
Heads need to roll, starting with Dick and starting tomorrow.
FFS the man gets worse. No, we don’t want politicians making operational police decisions, we went competent police officers acting within boundaries set by political leaders. Christ, this stuff isn’t hard, and it’s not party political.
Maybe the police have overstepped the mark but I can't help but feel there are a lot of people who are appalled at the policing of a 'good' protest but would be perfectly happy with the policing if it were a 'bad' protest i.e anti-lockdown, far right etc.
Or BLM, XRebellion...
What's your point? Police have gone incredibly soft on both of those.
Ultimately, they came for Piers Corbyn, and no one complained. This is where it leads.
To be fair, Piers Corbyn and company deliberately got themselves arrested - protest theatre.
Maybe the police have overstepped the mark but I can't help but feel there are a lot of people who are appalled at the policing of a 'good' protest but would be perfectly happy with the policing if it were a 'bad' protest i.e anti-lockdown, far right etc.
Or BLM, XRebellion...
What's your point? Police have gone incredibly soft on both of those.
Ultimately, they came for Piers Corbyn, and no one complained. This is where it leads.
To be fair, Piers Corbyn and company deliberately got themselves arrested - protest theatre.
FFS the man gets worse. No, we don’t want politicians making operational police decisions, we went competent police officers acting within boundaries set by political leaders. Christ, this stuff isn’t hard, and it’s not party political.
Can you imagine the reaction of Shaun Bailey if Sadiq Khan told the met who to arrest and whose skulls to smash in?
FFS the man gets worse. No, we don’t want politicians making operational police decisions, we went competent police officers acting within boundaries set by political leaders. Christ, this stuff isn’t hard, and it’s not party political.
Can you imagine the reaction of Shaun Bailey if Sadiq Khan told the met who to arrest and whose skulls to smash in?
Haven't we just had a huge example in Scotland of why justice shouldn't be politicised?
Is it too late for me to move to London and register to vote in the Mayoral election and spoil my ballot with 'Shaun Bailey is so dense light refracts around him'
FFS the man gets worse. No, we don’t want politicians making operational police decisions, we went competent police officers acting within boundaries set by political leaders. Christ, this stuff isn’t hard, and it’s not party political.
Can you imagine the reaction of Shaun Bailey if Sadiq Khan told the met who to arrest and whose skulls to smash in?
He's trying to be clever and trap Khan if he was involved or if he wasn't. But it doesn't take two seconds to consider why involvement like that would be a very bad idea.
Proportionality doesn't just apply to policing, but to legislating.
Transmission of Covid outside with masks on is practically non-existant, even more so with social distancing.
Was banning peaceful protest in a democracy ever really justified given that? And if so, should it still be when the most vunerable people have been vaccinated? My feeling is we've too easily sacrificed our rights for too long.
As for the police, their heavy handed response to a relatively small, mostly female protest about a woman kidnapped and killed off the streets, allegedly by one of their own, is something that would have been laughed out of a Line of Duty scriptwriting session. Utterly moronic.
FFS the man gets worse. No, we don’t want politicians making operational police decisions, we went competent police officers acting within boundaries set by political leaders. Christ, this stuff isn’t hard, and it’s not party political.
Can you imagine the reaction of Shaun Bailey if Sadiq Khan told the met who to arrest and whose skulls to smash in?
Exactly. This is the stuff where most of us, of most political views, should be united in supporting certain fundamental principles. If we don’t mostly agree on this stuff then there’s really no hope.
It’s also one of those issues where politicians need to work together because we can and should think more than one thought at once. Do I believe most police are decent and trying their best? Yes. Do I believe there are cultural issues that work against that and leave some people and some groups picked on by the police because they are “wrong uns” or the wrong shade on a dulux colour chart? Also yes.
Is it too late for me to move to London and register to vote in the Mayoral election and spoil my ballot with 'Shaun Bailey is so dense light refracts around him'
Maybe the police have overstepped the mark but I can't help but feel there are a lot of people who are appalled at the policing of a 'good' protest but would be perfectly happy with the policing if it were a 'bad' protest i.e anti-lockdown, far right etc.
Or BLM, XRebellion...
What's your point? Police have gone incredibly soft on both of those.
Ultimately, they came for Piers Corbyn, and no one complained. This is where it leads.
To be fair, Piers Corbyn and company deliberately got themselves arrested - protest theatre.
And these women, didn't?
No, I don't think so.
Mind you, the thing that was disproportionate in Corbyn's case was the repeated prosecutions.
Some PBers appear to think, that social distancing is more important than wearing masks, in stopping the spread of COVID and (presumably) other respiratory ailments.
Is this true? Can some of our actual PB experts (medico-scientific) weight in, please?
FFS the man gets worse. No, we don’t want politicians making operational police decisions, we went competent police officers acting within boundaries set by political leaders. Christ, this stuff isn’t hard, and it’s not party political.
Can you imagine the reaction of Shaun Bailey if Sadiq Khan told the met who to arrest and whose skulls to smash in?
Exactly. This is the stuff where most of us, of most political views, should be united in supporting certain fundamental principles. If we don’t mostly agree on this stuff then there’s really no hope.
It’s also one of those issues where politicians need to work together because we can and should think more than one thought at once. Do I believe most police are decent and trying their best? Yes. Do I believe there are cultural issues that work against that and leave some people and some groups picked on by the police because they are “wrong uns” or the wrong shade on a dulux colour chart? Also yes.
I remember when Ian Tomlinson died some people on the left suggested Boris Johnson should resign because he was responsible for oversight of the met, Alan Johnson to his immense credit said no, because the Mayor doesn't get involved in operational decisions like that.
Maybe the police have overstepped the mark but I can't help but feel there are a lot of people who are appalled at the policing of a 'good' protest but would be perfectly happy with the policing if it were a 'bad' protest i.e anti-lockdown, far right etc.
Or BLM, XRebellion...
What's your point? Police have gone incredibly soft on both of those.
Ultimately, they came for Piers Corbyn, and no one complained. This is where it leads.
To be fair, Piers Corbyn and company deliberately got themselves arrested - protest theatre.
And these women, didn't?
No, I don't think so.
Mind you, the thing that was disproportionate in Corbyn's case was the repeated prosecutions.
Bollocks. They obviously wanted to have a ruck with the law knowing what it would look like.
The police are asked to enforce the law. And that's what they did. Suck it up.
USA did 4.6 million vaccinations yesterday. We really need to step on it to be frank now or we'll be as embarrased as the MET are.
They definitely have had the ramp up we've yet to see, unfortunately. I do remember when Biden set his initial goal everyone seemed to agree it was a low one, as it'll be well well beyond it no question.
During BLM protests in Seattle, the 95% of the crowd who were peaceful protestors, about 95% of them wore masks
Social distancing was NOT so well observed, but then much of the crowding was unavoidable (if you came out at all) and some of that was due to the activity of (mostly unmasked and not socially-distanced) police.
In both Seattle & London, the cops appear to be woefully unprepared/clueless in effective crowd control, let alone how to defuse and communicate.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
That is simply not correct following yesterday's court ruling.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
That is simply not correct following yesterday's court ruling.
And it is possible to take the view that the police could and should have engaged, defused, and negotiated. We have a tradition in this country of policing by consent and police discretion allowing for circumstances. We are not a fascist society in which “the law is the law”.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
That is simply not correct following yesterday's court ruling.
And it is possible to take the view that the police could and should have engaged, defused, and negotiated. We have a tradition in this country of policing by consent and police discretion allowing for circumstances. We are not a fascist society in which “the law is the law”.
"Allowing for circumstance"? No, just no. The law should be applied equally without fear or favour.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
That is simply not correct following yesterday's court ruling.
And it is possible to take the view that the police could and should have engaged, defused, and negotiated. We have a tradition in this country of policing by consent and police discretion allowing for circumstances. We are not a fascist society in which “the law is the law”.
"Allowing for circumstance"? No, just no. The law should be applied equally without fear or favour.
It’s hasn’t been that way for at least the last two hundred years, but you’re entitled to want to introduce the idea.
I'm sorry but anybody who supports lockdown has to support what the Met did tonight.
The police only enforced laws that lockdown supporters have not disputed, and deem necessary for the control of covid, and they did so without fear or favour.
That is simply not correct following yesterday's court ruling.
And it is possible to take the view that the police could and should have engaged, defused, and negotiated. We have a tradition in this country of policing by consent and police discretion allowing for circumstances. We are not a fascist society in which “the law is the law”.
"Allowing for circumstance"? No, just no. The law should be applied equally without fear or favour.
If that was the case there would be no consideration of public interest for prosecutions.
Comments
Whatever became of him?
But the stories I heard were of paying mortgages off.
Certain officers also admitted they loved the ructions
Let this be the end of these oppressive laws.
So says most of PB.
The problem is that with a clientele that shows the worst of people, it is hard to maintain a moral compass. They are constantly surrounded by appalling acts and people, as part of the job, and that shifts their understanding of normality. It is hard not to be cultured into a very cynical view of humanity. They lose perspective, and their bearings.
It is a position that I have seen people give in to, whether coppers, prison officers, military and yes the medical profession too. The abnormal becomes the norm, and the public become prey.
This story is another huge elephant trap for Labour to see which side of the fence they back - public health and the police or those ignoring the law. Yet again I feel they’ve rushed into their response when they should have waited. Unlikely as it is Khan loses in May, something like his failure to back the Police and condemn the protests could be the black swan event that costs him the election. Probably not though given it’ll win him a few more votes from the left.
Ironically, their obsession means they've completely missed the main story. Lovely to see you back btw.
The driver wasn't answering his phone. As the police gave me a lift to my daughter's school, they gave me an insight to their philosophy as they explained that they didn't yet know what type of person the driver was.
He could have an innocent explanation for not answering his phone. He could be a perfectly decent individual who had just made a few mistakes. A good person.
Or, he could be one of them. The bad guys. He could have given me a fake phone number and scarpered.
And that way of thinking is a big problem. I can understand why they use it. A lot of the time it can keep them out of trouble.
But if they've decided you are one of the bad guys then you're never going to get a fair break. Will cause no end of issues.
Bit surprised to see the police decide that middle class white women as the bad guys though. Not normally the demographic that fits the stereotype.
Was also a dustup a few years previous, regarding the wide-spread hiring of off-duty Seattle cops, by developers & the like, for directing traffic near construction sites. Turned out there was a VERY tight little coterie within SPD that made sure these coveted opportunities (wearing full police uniform including firearms) went exclusively to the in-crowd within the dept.
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/carrie-symonds-it-s-such-a-relief-to-know-john-worboys-will-stay-in-prison-a3994801.html
Which means that the police don't wander round the "good" parts of town and interact with ordinary citizens as much as they used to.
When I lived in Wiltshire, they were just moving from having police living and working in the town, to having a police car occasionally drive through......
Surely you either enforce it or you don't?
Do we think the Twitter commentators and some of the politicians have massively misjudged the public mood again?
Yet.
And the subsequent claim that it was a "declaration of war on the police", equally interesting.
Depending on how that case goes, we could be looking at the end of tasers being an option for the police.
https://twitter.com/DanLarremore/status/1370464366655463429
And don't they, mysteriously, routinely, fail to work at (in)opportune moments?
The job warps them - as do our demands on them, politically and morally. But most STILL try to do their best, in a fucking difficult job, where they get little respect (as we see on here).
And, I say again, if you hate the British police (like the ludicrous TSE) then I challenge you to go abroad and find a *better* police force. It is exceedingly hard to be simultaneously effective and admired as a police force, in any multiracial nation over 20m in population. It is not hard to amiably police the Scilly Isles
Though, discretion involves deciding which laws to use, as well.
After all, you could use all the anti-terrorism laws to lock up suspects in just about any case. The abuse of the earlier PTA shows that.
I mean both personally and politically.
"I know this great pub we have to go to..."
This occurs when you had a core group of semi-experienced leaders, who reach out proactively to the police, telling them just what they plan to do and when they plan to do it. Then they work out the details with the cops.
So when the day comes, the leaders tell the protesters what to expect and what the limits are, then a selected group volunteer themselves to be arrested, with a minimum of fuss and mess for both themselves and the forces of order.
HOWEVER, this can break down if & when there is no protest leadership to speak of, OR when the numbers & emotions get out of hand OR there is a breakdown in communications between police & protesters.
Your point is?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/27/keir-starmer-contacted-by-police-after-collision-with-cyclist-in-london
Of course, this is not a surprise. As you say, the police have finite resources and really don't bother very much with low crime areas. You don't even see cop cars very often.
Generally speaking nothing much happens around here, but I think we've had two murders. Both cases of women being killed in their own homes by their partners.
Officers arrived at a house in Gloucester to find "loud music, flashing lights and drunken singing".
They found a man hiding in a bath and guests who had travelled from Durham, 250 miles (402km) away.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-56386595
They obviously found the Durham branch of SpecSavers was closed.
I asked if I could ring the hospital as I was due back on duty that PM. Instant change of attitude. Obviously a mistake had been made etc. If he had called on my neighbours they would be banged up again.
It doesn’t help matters that most of the decent people had paid their respects and long departed the scene when fringe groups like Sisters Uncut sought to exploit the poor girl’s death for their own radical agenda and publicity. The Met were caught between a rock and a hard place.
Ultimately, they came for Piers Corbyn, and no one complained. This is where it leads.
https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1370876076369526787
“Shall we negotiate and try and defuse the situation Sir/Mam?”
“Nah, sod it lets crack heads”.
Heads need to roll, starting with Dick and starting tomorrow.
Transmission of Covid outside with masks on is practically non-existant, even more so with social distancing.
Was banning peaceful protest in a democracy ever really justified given that? And if so, should it still be when the most vunerable people have been vaccinated? My feeling is we've too easily sacrificed our rights for too long.
As for the police, their heavy handed response to a relatively small, mostly female protest about a woman kidnapped and killed off the streets, allegedly by one of their own, is something that would have been laughed out of a Line of Duty scriptwriting session. Utterly moronic.
It’s also one of those issues where politicians need to work together because we can and should think more than one thought at once. Do I believe most police are decent and trying their best? Yes. Do I believe there are cultural issues that work against that and leave some people and some groups picked on by the police because they are “wrong uns” or the wrong shade on a dulux colour chart? Also yes.
Mind you, the thing that was disproportionate in Corbyn's case was the repeated prosecutions.
Is this true? Can some of our actual PB experts (medico-scientific) weight in, please?
The police are asked to enforce the law. And that's what they did. Suck it up.
Social distancing was NOT so well observed, but then much of the crowding was unavoidable (if you came out at all) and some of that was due to the activity of (mostly unmasked and not socially-distanced) police.
In both Seattle & London, the cops appear to be woefully unprepared/clueless in effective crowd control, let alone how to defuse and communicate.
I mean if that's not dystopian then what is?