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Here We Go (Again) – politicalbetting.com

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  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    I know there are some extenuating circumstances but after almost a year in charge, Starmer is a whole 1% above Corbyn. Does this mean he is under threat? I would say not at the moment but he needs to be ruthless after the May elections and kick most of the shadow cabinet to the curb.
    Corbyn wasn’t under threat when five sixths of his party voted against him in a confidence motion and he was exposed for having repeatedly spun his story on train travel and lied about his support for Islamic terrorism.

    The last Labour leader to have been toppled by main force was George Lansbury in 1935. And some failed or superannuated leaders in the meanwhile clung on when most wanted them out - Attlee, Wilson, Callaghan, Brown...

    I don’t think the one wing which might be a threat have the votes to force a challenge - certainly they have no candidate.

    For good or ill Labour are stuck with Starmer unless he quits. And I don’t think he will.

    The question is, whether and how he can improve his personal ratings.
    We should all be making suggestion to help dull old SKS out.

    We need another round of flag-shagging from Keir.

    Plus the whole Shadow Cabinet dressing up in Union Jack lingerie. Challenge the Tories to match that.

    We'll soon see which party is more patriotic. :)
    This whole ‘flag shagging’ thing really is ridiculous. It’s seems to be a fixation of parts of the online left as occupied by Owen Jones and Novara Media. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any politician sitting by our national flag.

    I saw a bit of a zoom call with all european leaders and each and every one of them, left right and centre, sat by their national flag.

    During international soccer tournaments the English flag is proudly displayed by people of all creeds and colours. Rightly so.

    Still, posting crap for likes and retweets is nothing new.
    But your post betrays the confusion at the heart of all this. You first talk of "our national flag" and then you say "the English flag".

    They are of course not the same thing. That is the whole point.

    SKS absolutely needs to make some progress in Scotland to win an election.

    If he (or you) really believe the way to make progress in Wales or Scotland is by bathing in a sea of Union Jacks, then he (or you) are in for a very disagreeable surprise.
    Looking at this from the point of view of Kier Starmer, who is meant to lead a Unionist political party, not only should he use the Union flag in publicity material in Scotland and Wales, he surely MUST do so?

    The notion that you are a colonialist or an imperialist or a foreign invader if you do anything other than stand in front of a huge dragon/saltire (delete where applicable) is a Celtic nationalist affectation. If the leadership - especially the UK national leadership - of either Labour or the Tories throw their hands up in the air and discard the entire notion of there being a British state (and all of its national symbols along with it,) then they might as well decide to become exclusively English parties and start campaigning for the dissolution of the Union. It would be easy enough to do. It might even make them more popular.

    Alternatively, if they actually believe that the British state should exist then they shouldn't be afraid to sell the concept. If they're not successful and the UK implodes anyway then at least they can't be accused of not trying.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited March 2021
    JohnO said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I know we had the most non-white MEPs, but this seems a remarkable stat if even close to true - though even given how few 'high ministerial' posts exist total it seems surprising if it is.
    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1370802345081249792

    I won't believe it until Scott'n'Paste posts it! :smiley:
    I guess the Cabinet. So Patel, Sunak, Kwateng and Sharma are full members out of 21 (I think). Any more?
    Johnson and Raab both qualify as BAME, but I would hardly call them non-white.

    Edit - if ‘ministers’ rather than cabinet ministers are implied I think the numbers rise by seven or eight.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    The only one issue I’d take with the OP is the comment on Cressida Dick. She has also had good fortune and fallen upwards. The death of Jean-Charles De Menezes on her watch did nothing to harm her career trajectory either.

    Perhaps it's time for Dick to be removed.
    Don't reopen the trans debate please.
    We need no terf wars
    The hit song Pink Floyd should have written.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,031

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    The only one issue I’d take with the OP is the comment on Cressida Dick. She has also had good fortune and fallen upwards. The death of Jean-Charles De Menezes on her watch did nothing to harm her career trajectory either.

    Perhaps it's time for Dick to be removed.
    Put like that, it sounds like a severe case of coitus interruptus.
    Dick has had many ups and downs, but it does seem like we might be seeing the end.
    I think Dick risks climaxing too soon.
    But there's little doubt that many people in high places seem to be huge fans of Dick.
    Will Dick come out swinging?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419
    True, this is completely unacceptable but no,different to how they treated anti lockdown marchers and other protesters too.

    We should have a right to peaceful protest. These women are peaceful protesting against violence against women. What do,they get from the police. Exactly that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    The Met has a mind?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    tlg86 said:

    You reap what you sow. Perhaps if they hadn't been so keen to arrest the likes of Piers Corbyn, they wouldn't feel the need to apply the law in difficult situations like this.
    Political sensibility tells you, you only have WPCs policing that event.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    I know there are some extenuating circumstances but after almost a year in charge, Starmer is a whole 1% above Corbyn. Does this mean he is under threat? I would say not at the moment but he needs to be ruthless after the May elections and kick most of the shadow cabinet to the curb.
    Corbyn wasn’t under threat when five sixths of his party voted against him in a confidence motion and he was exposed for having repeatedly spun his story on train travel and lied about his support for Islamic terrorism.

    The last Labour leader to have been toppled by main force was George Lansbury in 1935. And some failed or superannuated leaders in the meanwhile clung on when most wanted them out - Attlee, Wilson, Callaghan, Brown...

    I don’t think the one wing which might be a threat have the votes to force a challenge - certainly they have no candidate.

    For good or ill Labour are stuck with Starmer unless he quits. And I don’t think he will.

    The question is, whether and how he can improve his personal ratings.
    We should all be making suggestion to help dull old SKS out.

    We need another round of flag-shagging from Keir.

    Plus the whole Shadow Cabinet dressing up in Union Jack lingerie. Challenge the Tories to match that.

    We'll soon see which party is more patriotic. :)
    This whole ‘flag shagging’ thing really is ridiculous. It’s seems to be a fixation of parts of the online left as occupied by Owen Jones and Novara Media. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any politician sitting by our national flag.

    I saw a bit of a zoom call with all european leaders and each and every one of them, left right and centre, sat by their national flag.

    During international soccer tournaments the English flag is proudly displayed by people of all creeds and colours. Rightly so.

    Still, posting crap for likes and retweets is nothing new.
    But your post betrays the confusion at the heart of all this. You first talk of "our national flag" and then you say "the English flag".

    They are of course not the same thing. That is the whole point.

    SKS absolutely needs to make some progress in Scotland to win an election.

    If he (or you) really believe the way to make progress in Wales or Scotland is by bathing in a sea of Union Jacks, then he (or you) are in for a very disagreeable surprise.
    Looking at this from the point of view of Kier Starmer, who is meant to lead a Unionist political party, not only should he use the Union flag in publicity material in Scotland and Wales, he surely MUST do so?

    The notion that you are a colonialist or an imperialist or a foreign invader if you do anything other than stand in front of a huge dragon/saltire (delete where applicable) is a Celtic nationalist affectation. If the leadership - especially the UK national leadership - of either Labour or the Tories throw their hands up in the air and discard the entire notion of there being a British state (and all of its national symbols along with it,) then they might as well decide to become exclusively English parties and start campaigning for the dissolution of the Union. It would be easy enough to do. It might even make them more popular.

    Alternatively, if they actually believe that the British state should exist then they shouldn't be afraid to sell the concept. If they're not successful and the UK implodes anyway then at least they can't be accused of not trying.
    They want to replace British identity with their new preferred ones but know that it won't win if they're overt about it, so do it by subterfuge - attacking its symbols and traditions, and so forth.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Taz said:

    The only one issue I’d take with the OP is the comment on Cressida Dick. She has also had good fortune and fallen upwards. The death of Jean-Charles De Menezes on her watch did nothing to harm her career trajectory either.

    Perhaps it's time for Dick to be removed.
    Werent the protesters asking for dick out?
    I think they want Dick cut.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    The big problem is the government and the police have been rather selective on what protests have been allowed over the past 12 months. BLM fine, Piers Corbyn nutters not ok. Eco nutters fine, women wanting to remember a murder victim, not ok.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    The only one issue I’d take with the OP is the comment on Cressida Dick. She has also had good fortune and fallen upwards. The death of Jean-Charles De Menezes on her watch did nothing to harm her career trajectory either.

    Perhaps it's time for Dick to be removed.
    Put like that, it sounds like a severe case of coitus interruptus.
    Dick has had many ups and downs, but it does seem like we might be seeing the end.
    I think Dick risks climaxing too soon.
    But there's little doubt that many people in high places seem to be huge fans of Dick.
    Changing the subject slightly, I am reminded of that 1990s bit of Man City team selection news: Ball chops Dickov.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    algarkirk said:

    Tomorrow is definitely MOTHERS DAY. Never ever heard of "Mothering Sunday" before.

    FYI, Mothers Day (by that name) was founded in 1908 by a woman from West Virginia, Anna Maria Jarvis, in honor of the memory of her own mother, who was also named Anna Maria.

    BTW, the holiday soon became very popular in the US, and was quickly commericalized and monetized, for example by the emerging greeting card industry. So much so that Mrs Reeves went so far as to call for its abolition! However, she soon ended up in a sanatorium, with bills paid for by . . . . wait for it . . . greeting card companies!

    Is "Mothering Sunday" a reaction against this now rampant commericalization?

    Whatever the answer, Happy Mothers Day 2021 to all you mothers!

    AND here is a musical tribute, by the late, great Jerry Jeff Walker: "Up Against the Wall Redneck Mothers"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcBOcwgb4OA

    The Mothers Day you mention is on the second Sunday in May for our friends in the USA.

    Mothering Sunday is an extension of Laetare Sunday, the fourth Sunday in Lent (which can fall on 35 different dates) in which commemorating our mother church embraces thankfulness for mothers as well. Works OK, and some people call it mothers day.

    OPPS - do I have egg on MY face! Can't even get the right date for Mothers Day!

    Perhaps the COVID has been rotting my brain? Wonder IF there are other symptoms!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,031
    JohnO said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I know we had the most non-white MEPs, but this seems a remarkable stat if even close to true - though even given how few 'high ministerial' posts exist total it seems surprising if it is.
    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1370802345081249792

    I won't believe it until Scott'n'Paste posts it! :smiley:
    I guess the Cabinet. So Patel, Sunak, Kwateng and Sharma are full members out of 21 (I think). Any more?
    Braverman
  • TresTres Posts: 2,702
    Taz said:

    True, this is completely unacceptable but no,different to how they treated anti lockdown marchers and other protesters too.

    We should have a right to peaceful protest. These women are peaceful protesting against violence against women. What do,they get from the police. Exactly that.
    To be fair to the Met, they have been busy telling women not to go out in the dark if they don't want to be attacked.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    JohnO said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I know we had the most non-white MEPs, but this seems a remarkable stat if even close to true - though even given how few 'high ministerial' posts exist total it seems surprising if it is.
    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1370802345081249792

    I won't believe it until Scott'n'Paste posts it! :smiley:
    I guess the Cabinet. So Patel, Sunak, Kwateng and Sharma are full members out of 21 (I think). Any more?
    Braverman
    She’s not a member of the cabinet.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    tlg86 said:

    You reap what you sow. Perhaps if they hadn't been so keen to arrest the likes of Piers Corbyn, they wouldn't feel the need to apply the law in difficult situations like this.
    It'll be fascinating to see how Priti Patel (or, for that matter, Sadiq Khan, who is the de facto PCC for the Met) defends that behaviour. Especially given that they didn't treat the BLM marchers likewise.

    Of course, we all know why that was. The police have obviously decided that roughing up those women won't result in them being subjected to a massive riot and pelted with heavy missiles.

    Might makes right.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,476

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    The only one issue I’d take with the OP is the comment on Cressida Dick. She has also had good fortune and fallen upwards. The death of Jean-Charles De Menezes on her watch did nothing to harm her career trajectory either.

    Perhaps it's time for Dick to be removed.
    Put like that, it sounds like a severe case of coitus interruptus.
    Dick has had many ups and downs, but it does seem like we might be seeing the end.
    I think Dick risks climaxing too soon.
    But there's little doubt that many people in high places seem to be huge fans of Dick.
    Will Dick come out swinging?
    Possibly, but I think there's little doubt that the inexorable rise of Dick has been halted.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    The only one issue I’d take with the OP is the comment on Cressida Dick. She has also had good fortune and fallen upwards. The death of Jean-Charles De Menezes on her watch did nothing to harm her career trajectory either.

    Perhaps it's time for Dick to be removed.
    Put like that, it sounds like a severe case of coitus interruptus.
    Dick has had many ups and downs, but it does seem like we might be seeing the end.
    I think Dick risks climaxing too soon.
    But there's little doubt that many people in high places seem to be huge fans of Dick.
    Will Dick come out swinging?
    Possibly, but I think there's little doubt that the inexorable rise of Dick has been halted.
    She’s cocked up again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    https://twitter.com/LambethMPS/status/1370817219660292099?s=19

    I bet they would never have dared tweet this in regards BLM protests....people tightly packed risk regards COVID.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    September 2020 really was Boris's nadir.

    I was texting every Tory MP I knew then telling them to get rid of him.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,031
    The Home Secretary needs to take Dick in hand and deliver a good tongue lashing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    The Home Secretary needs to take Dick in hand and deliver a good tongue lashing.

    She might not enjoy dealing with their testy calls down the line though.
  • The Home Secretary needs to take Dick in hand and deliver a good tongue lashing.

    I suspect Dick is in some difficulty tonight as she is responsible for the MET's actions

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    If I was Gordon Starmer, I wouldn't be worrying too much as of yet, in fact it might not be a bad thing. If Boris had carried on the way he was going, he would have been out on his ear sometime this year. Now he isn't going anywhere soon...but it is only a matter of time before Boris balls up again.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2021



    Looking at this from the point of view of Kier Starmer, who is meant to lead a Unionist political party, not only should he use the Union flag in publicity material in Scotland and Wales, he surely MUST do so?

    The notion that you are a colonialist or an imperialist or a foreign invader if you do anything other than stand in front of a huge dragon/saltire (delete where applicable) is a Celtic nationalist affectation. If the leadership - especially the UK national leadership - of either Labour or the Tories throw their hands up in the air and discard the entire notion of there being a British state (and all of its national symbols along with it,) then they might as well decide to become exclusively English parties and start campaigning for the dissolution of the Union. It would be easy enough to do. It might even make them more popular.

    Alternatively, if they actually believe that the British state should exist then they shouldn't be afraid to sell the concept. If they're not successful and the UK implodes anyway then at least they can't be accused of not trying.

    The only way out of this for Labour or the Tories is to have independent Labour or Tory parties for Wales & Scotland.

    This is of course what used to be the case in Scotland between 1912 and 1965-- when the Unionist party actually won 50 per cent of the seats. Edward Heath then forcibly merged them with the Conservative party -- a terrible mistake and the Tories have gone backwards in Scotland ever since.

    The leaders of the Scottish or Welsh Labour parties can then -- if they wish to flag shag -- have their saltires and Y Ddraig Gochs.

    I am not that interested in SKS or flag shaggery, though SKS seems dull & insipid to me and Labour had much better, livelier & interesting options.

    But, the fact that SKS believes the solution to Labour's problems in Scotland is to surround himself with Union Jacks strongly suggests he is not nimble enough, or smart enough, for the forthcoming tests and that he will lose the 2024 General Election.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083

    It is hard to see how the Met could have screwed this up more. Every middle aged middle class woman I know is furious right now. This isn't a load of professional activists, its normal women.

    I imagine Cressida Dick will get binned, but the problems run much deeper than that.

    I bet the government get some of the fall out blame as well.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Remember, in the hierarchy of victims, ethnic minorities are more important than women.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939
    tlg86 said:

    Eight of us are booked on this:

    https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-end-of-southern-steamb823a354

    I cannot wait.

    Hope you have contributed to this worthy cause. http://563locomotivegroup.co.uk/
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,476

    The big problem is the government and the police have been rather selective on what protests have been allowed over the past 12 months. BLM fine, Piers Corbyn nutters not ok. Eco nutters fine, women wanting to remember a murder victim, not ok.
    Yes, it is odd. Removes all credibility really. BLM they appeared to be taking beatings on the chin, much less shutting down the protest on public health grounds. I suspect in that instance they were told not to intervene, though I don't think that order came via the Home Secretary, as she was furious.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    If I was Gordon Starmer, I wouldn't be worrying too much as of yet, in fact it might not be a bad thing. If Boris had carried on the way he was going, he would have been out on his ear sometime this year. Now he isn't going anywhere soon...but it is only a matter of time before Boris balls up again.

    Is Gordon Starmer a thing now?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    It is hard to see how the Met could have screwed this up more. Every middle aged middle class woman I know is furious right now. This isn't a load of professional activists, its normal women.

    I imagine Cressida Dick will get binned, but the problems run much deeper than that.

    Dick hands job over to new Big Nob who makes a splash as she suffers a mortal blow.

    I'm done.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited March 2021

    September 2020 really was Boris's nadir.

    I was texting every Tory MP I knew then telling them to get rid of him.
    I had a bit more faith that he could turn things around, and so far the picture is much improved.

    That chart is particularly troubling for SKS though, if the only way he can overtake Boris as best PM - and very briefly at that - is when everything is going wrong for the government all at once. He didn't even manage it after the Christmas chaos!
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    edited March 2021
    ydoethur said:

    JohnO said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I know we had the most non-white MEPs, but this seems a remarkable stat if even close to true - though even given how few 'high ministerial' posts exist total it seems surprising if it is.
    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1370802345081249792

    I won't believe it until Scott'n'Paste posts it! :smiley:
    I guess the Cabinet. So Patel, Sunak, Kwateng and Sharma are full members out of 21 (I think). Any more?
    Johnson and Raab both qualify as BAME, but I would hardly call them non-white.

    Edit - if ‘ministers’ rather than cabinet ministers are implied I think the numbers rise by seven or eight.
    Agree - there’s Kemi Badenoch, James Cleverley, the vaccines bloke - and doubtless others but can’t be bothered to go through the full list!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    edited March 2021
    JohnO said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I know we had the most non-white MEPs, but this seems a remarkable stat if even close to true - though even given how few 'high ministerial' posts exist total it seems surprising if it is.
    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1370802345081249792

    I won't believe it until Scott'n'Paste posts it! :smiley:
    I guess the Cabinet. So Patel, Sunak, Kwateng and Sharma are full members out of 21 (I think). Any more?
    Is Braverman?
    Or is AG "independent?" of government. (A likely story).

    Edit. See we've done that.
    It's a senior position for sure.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939
    Mortimer said:

    Floater said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Stocky said:

    tlg86 said:

    First.

    I have to say, I think I'm with @contrarian this evening. Whilst I agree with the measures taken - and, indeed, I wish we'd been locked down since October - the reality is that this is pretty much over. Sure, the government isn't allowing commercial activities to return for another month, but you can ask only so much of people.

    We're going to my sister's for Sunday lunch tomorrow. Whereas I was really worried about Christmas, and I was angry at the government for not cancelling it sooner, we're now in a completely different world. My parents had their first doses six weeks ago. They want to see the grandchildren.

    Yet a dear family friend (who has had her jab) when visiting my mum (who has also had a jab) in her nursing home (where all the carers have had jabs) has to put up with a fixed floor-to-ceiling perspex screen AND they both have to wear masks.
    I had a conversation yesterday with a business colleague who asked what precautions he thought we ought to take for an event in September.

    There is a degree of Stockholm syndrome setting in; a good % of the population seem to enjoy the restrictions, the rules, and the doomongering. Odd.
    You missed this morning’s thread. Which is a mercy to you, I can assure you. I wouldn’t look it up to be honest!
    I'm going to guess that a few PBers are going to stay at home for a few years more, just to be on the safe side, and can't fathom why anyone would want to go to a shop/cinema/gig/pub until around 2030?
    I have booked 3 staycations for later this year.

    My wife and I need it and to be honest so does the economy
    Good stuff! I have several dinners in nice restaurants booked in for May, and am starting a lunch club with colleagues because we've missed socialising so much. Fairs are being planned apace. Really looking forward to seeing my Godson in Edinburgh, too.
    The best of both worlds. Take your godson to The Kitchin for lunch.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    dixiedean said:

    JohnO said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I know we had the most non-white MEPs, but this seems a remarkable stat if even close to true - though even given how few 'high ministerial' posts exist total it seems surprising if it is.
    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1370802345081249792

    I won't believe it until Scott'n'Paste posts it! :smiley:
    I guess the Cabinet. So Patel, Sunak, Kwateng and Sharma are full members out of 21 (I think). Any more?
    Is Braverman?
    Or is AG "independent?" of government. (A likely story).
    No, she’s a Minister and attends Cabinet but not a full member of it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,476
    .

    It is hard to see how the Met could have screwed this up more. Every middle aged middle class woman I know is furious right now. This isn't a load of professional activists, its normal women.

    I imagine Cressida Dick will get binned, but the problems run much deeper than that.

    Dick hands job over to new Big Nob who makes a splash as she suffers a mortal blow.

    I'm done.
    Let's hope that's not followed by political aspirations - a Dick penetration of Westminster is all we need.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    tlg86 said:

    Remember, in the hierarchy of victims, ethnic minorities are more important than women.

    That's not the case when it comes to murder. The young black men who have been murdered this year aren't getting the large protests in their name, nor the commentary in the papers, or the social media storm.

    Men are 2 to 3 times more likely to be murdered than women, younger men are more likely to be murdered than older men, and ethnic minorities are more likely to be murdered than white people. And on the whole nobody gives a fuck about those murders.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    Eight of us are booked on this:

    https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-end-of-southern-steamb823a354

    I cannot wait.

    Hope you have contributed to this worthy cause. http://563locomotivegroup.co.uk/
    Have now, looks a good project.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    They should lift lockdown because of this? Ridiculous.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited March 2021
    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    Remember, in the hierarchy of victims, ethnic minorities are more important than women.

    That's not the case when it comes to murder. The young black men who have been murdered this year aren't getting the large protests in their name, nor the commentary in the papers, or the social media storm.

    Men are 2 to 3 times more likely to be murdered than women, younger men are more likely to be murdered than older men, and ethnic minorities are more likely to be murdered than white people. And on the whole nobody gives a fuck about those murders.
    You're looking at it from the wrong perspective (okay, I know I said it was about victims). What matters is the perpetrator. If a black man gets killed by a cop, then it would be big news.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870

    Taz said:

    The only one issue I’d take with the OP is the comment on Cressida Dick. She has also had good fortune and fallen upwards. The death of Jean-Charles De Menezes on her watch did nothing to harm her career trajectory either.

    That wasn’t on her watch, was it? Wasn’t that Sir Ian Blair?
    She was supervising the operation that killed him.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    felix said:

    If I was Gordon Starmer, I wouldn't be worrying too much as of yet, in fact it might not be a bad thing. If Boris had carried on the way he was going, he would have been out on his ear sometime this year. Now he isn't going anywhere soon...but it is only a matter of time before Boris balls up again.

    Is Gordon Starmer a thing now?
    Sir Keir Brown :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited March 2021
    RobD said:

    They should lift lockdown because of this? Ridiculous.
    It's jumping on a bandwagon I suspect. I'm sure he is sincere, but he was probably sincere in wanting the powers gone a long time ago, implying these particular scenes are why they should go would therefore be disingenuous (if in fact he was not wishing them gone already, I withdraw that).

    And given most of the Coronavirus Act, I believe, had sunset clauses, those who argued from the start or a long time ago that the powers should end would be misleading if they subsequently claim victory as those powers are not renewed.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870

    tlg86 said:

    Eight of us are booked on this:

    https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-end-of-southern-steamb823a354

    I cannot wait.

    East Lancashire Railway Diesel Gala is the previous weekend. I had planned a visit last February but had to call it off as I had a *mystery illness*. So this is my target for a return to normality. (Yes, I know that many will think that attending such an event is far from normal.)
    My railway Bouquet-List, severely messed up by Covid, includes:

    Inverness to Kyle
    Inverness to Thurso & Wick
    Dale Rail (Sunday only) Clitheroe to Hellifield.
    Manchester Metrolink branch to Trafford Centre
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    kle4 said:

    Doubly ironic that as women, attempting to protest Sarah Everard’s murder by a policeman, are wrestled to the ground by...policemen...PB’s finest pass the time with nob jokes.

    Gods forbid random internet weirdos are able to engage in undirected random chatter concurrently with some news event.
    I merely point out the rich ironies.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Doubly ironic that as women, attempting to protest Sarah Everard’s murder by a policeman, are wrestled to the ground by...policemen...PB’s finest pass the time with nob jokes.

    Meanwhile, on Tuesday, Priti Patel introduces to Parliament a new policing bill that gives police even more powers to suppress peaceful protest.

    You are totally right about the Met being out of their minds. And the contrast with previous protests is quite striking. They should be ashamed.

    What are the new restrictions being imposed?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    kle4 said:

    Doubly ironic that as women, attempting to protest Sarah Everard’s murder by a policeman, are wrestled to the ground by...policemen...PB’s finest pass the time with nob jokes.

    Gods forbid random internet weirdos are able to engage in undirected random chatter concurrently with some news event.
    I merely point out the rich ironies.
    And I'd point out there's nothing ironic about it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,476

    Doubly ironic that as women, attempting to protest Sarah Everard’s murder by a policeman, are wrestled to the ground by...policemen...PB’s finest pass the time with nob jokes.

    Meanwhile, on Tuesday, Priti Patel introduces to Parliament a new policing bill that gives police even more powers to suppress peaceful protest.

    I am happy to stand down the nob jokes.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    edited March 2021
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Tomorrow is definitely MOTHERS DAY. Never ever heard of "Mothering Sunday" before.

    FYI, Mothers Day (by that name) was founded in 1908 by a woman from West Virginia, Anna Maria Jarvis, in honor of the memory of her own mother, who was also named Anna Maria.

    BTW, the holiday soon became very popular in the US, and was quickly commericalized and monetized, for example by the emerging greeting card industry. So much so that Mrs Reeves went so far as to call for its abolition! However, she soon ended up in a sanatorium, with bills paid for by . . . . wait for it . . . greeting card companies!

    Is "Mothering Sunday" a reaction against this now rampant commericalization?

    Whatever the answer, Happy Mothers Day 2021 to all you mothers!

    AND here is a musical tribute, by the late, great Jerry Jeff Walker: "Up Against the Wall Redneck Mothers"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcBOcwgb4OA

    My understanding is that Motherinf Sunday is a Church of England thing, a celebration of the mother church - i. e. the church in which you were baptised. I don't know how old it is.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothering_Sunday
    It's medeival, apparently.
    "Mothering Sunday" as an exact phrase is Victorian, or perhaps a little earlier.

    Perhaps an accretion on a Medieval Tradition of visiting the "Mother" church, which might be where you were baptised, or the Cathedral of your Diocese.

    In recent years it has been grabbed - like many others - by the Greetings Card industry.

    I'll be kind, and stay off the theology of God as Mother :smile:
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The Home Secretary needs to take Dick in hand and deliver a good tongue lashing.

    Would that be a stand up meeting where Dick is soundly thrashed?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    JohnO said:

    ydoethur said:

    JohnO said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I know we had the most non-white MEPs, but this seems a remarkable stat if even close to true - though even given how few 'high ministerial' posts exist total it seems surprising if it is.
    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1370802345081249792

    I won't believe it until Scott'n'Paste posts it! :smiley:
    I guess the Cabinet. So Patel, Sunak, Kwateng and Sharma are full members out of 21 (I think). Any more?
    Johnson and Raab both qualify as BAME, but I would hardly call them non-white.

    Edit - if ‘ministers’ rather than cabinet ministers are implied I think the numbers rise by seven or eight.
    Agree - there’s Kemi Badenoch, James Cleverley, the vaccines bloke - and doubtless others but can’t be bothered to go through the full list!
    The Tory Party will have a BAME Prime Minister before the Labour Party do so. Discuss.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    RobD said:

    Doubly ironic that as women, attempting to protest Sarah Everard’s murder by a policeman, are wrestled to the ground by...policemen...PB’s finest pass the time with nob jokes.

    Meanwhile, on Tuesday, Priti Patel introduces to Parliament a new policing bill that gives police even more powers to suppress peaceful protest.

    You are totally right about the Met being out of their minds. And the contrast with previous protests is quite striking. They should be ashamed.

    What are the new restrictions being imposed?
    They're giving the women the Piers Corbyn treatment. Other causes have been policed much more leniently.

    Personally, I would haven't worried about outside protests. They're unlikely to spread the virus. Let the police focus on breaking up indoor parties.
  • Front page of every newspaper tomorrow:

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1370846119991734272
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    tlg86 said:

    You're looking at it from the wrong perspective (okay, I know I said it was about victims). What matters is the perpetrator. If a black man gets killed by a cop, then it would be big news.

    Okay but that is all part of the same problem. For some reason as a society we have this notion that certain types of victims or perpetrators make a crime more or less outrageous, ranging between the extremes of public frenzy to total disinterest. Our repsonse and interest is at odds with reality.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    JohnO said:

    ydoethur said:

    JohnO said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I know we had the most non-white MEPs, but this seems a remarkable stat if even close to true - though even given how few 'high ministerial' posts exist total it seems surprising if it is.
    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1370802345081249792

    I won't believe it until Scott'n'Paste posts it! :smiley:
    I guess the Cabinet. So Patel, Sunak, Kwateng and Sharma are full members out of 21 (I think). Any more?
    Johnson and Raab both qualify as BAME, but I would hardly call them non-white.

    Edit - if ‘ministers’ rather than cabinet ministers are implied I think the numbers rise by seven or eight.
    Agree - there’s Kemi Badenoch, James Cleverley, the vaccines bloke - and doubtless others but can’t be bothered to go through the full list!
    The Tory Party will have a BAME Prime Minister before the Labour Party do so. Discuss.
    That must be a near certainty, surely?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Doubly ironic that as women, attempting to protest Sarah Everard’s murder by a policeman, are wrestled to the ground by...policemen...PB’s finest pass the time with nob jokes.

    Meanwhile, on Tuesday, Priti Patel introduces to Parliament a new policing bill that gives police even more powers to suppress peaceful protest.

    That's because it's too fucking depressing.

    The Met needs to be burnt to the ground and reconstituted.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited March 2021

    JohnO said:

    ydoethur said:

    JohnO said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I know we had the most non-white MEPs, but this seems a remarkable stat if even close to true - though even given how few 'high ministerial' posts exist total it seems surprising if it is.
    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1370802345081249792

    I won't believe it until Scott'n'Paste posts it! :smiley:
    I guess the Cabinet. So Patel, Sunak, Kwateng and Sharma are full members out of 21 (I think). Any more?
    Johnson and Raab both qualify as BAME, but I would hardly call them non-white.

    Edit - if ‘ministers’ rather than cabinet ministers are implied I think the numbers rise by seven or eight.
    Agree - there’s Kemi Badenoch, James Cleverley, the vaccines bloke - and doubtless others but can’t be bothered to go through the full list!
    The Tory Party will have a BAME Prime Minister before the Labour Party do so. Discuss.
    They had one as long ago as 1868, before Labour even existed.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548

    algarkirk said:

    Tomorrow is definitely MOTHERS DAY. Never ever heard of "Mothering Sunday" before.

    FYI, Mothers Day (by that name) was founded in 1908 by a woman from West Virginia, Anna Maria Jarvis, in honor of the memory of her own mother, who was also named Anna Maria.

    BTW, the holiday soon became very popular in the US, and was quickly commericalized and monetized, for example by the emerging greeting card industry. So much so that Mrs Reeves went so far as to call for its abolition! However, she soon ended up in a sanatorium, with bills paid for by . . . . wait for it . . . greeting card companies!

    Is "Mothering Sunday" a reaction against this now rampant commericalization?

    Whatever the answer, Happy Mothers Day 2021 to all you mothers!

    AND here is a musical tribute, by the late, great Jerry Jeff Walker: "Up Against the Wall Redneck Mothers"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcBOcwgb4OA

    The Mothers Day you mention is on the second Sunday in May for our friends in the USA.

    Mothering Sunday is an extension of Laetare Sunday, the fourth Sunday in Lent (which can fall on 35 different dates) in which commemorating our mother church embraces thankfulness for mothers as well. Works OK, and some people call it mothers day.

    OPPS - do I have egg on MY face! Can't even get the right date for Mothers Day!

    Perhaps the COVID has been rotting my brain? Wonder IF there are other symptoms!
    As algarkirk says, Mothering Sunday is the fourth Sunday in Lent, which is the forty days and nights preceding the festival of Easter.

    In the early 20th century the concept of Mothers Day had been imported into England from the USA but it had been separated from the church calendar with Mother's Day being celebrated in both America and (at that time) in the UK in May.

    Constance Penswick Smith was the daughter of a vicar at Coddington near Newark in the early 20th century. She started a campaign which culminated in the adoption of Mothering Sunday in the English calendar instead of Mothers Day with its date set by the ecclesiastical calendar rather than being a fixed Sunday each year. The first Mothering Sunday was in 1915.

    My wife and I were married in the Church at Coddington where Constance Penswick Smith is buried.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    Steve Baker's mind works in a very unusual way. I am not sure anyone else has made the same extrapolation.

    Steve Baker again adding 2 and 2 and finding the answer is probably 22.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Front page of every newspaper tomorrow:

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1370846119991734272

    Just guessing, but I suspect CPS will be declining to charge anyone detained during these events. Letter of law and equitable treatment of all deliberate breaches is one thing, but that is probably not worth someone's career.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    There are three interlinked problems here.

    1. The police have been presented with regulations that instruct them that all demonstrations are effectively forbidden
    2. However, the regulations contain the fundamental flaw that, depending upon the size of the demo, they may be very hard to enforce: if the demonstration in question is both big enough, and contains a sufficient risk of violence if it is broken up, then the rules are at risk of being rendered meaningless. This is, of course, what happened with BLM
    3. Unable to do anything about the large demonstrations, the police then fail to apply a consistency of approach to the smaller ones and instead insist on dispersing them, using force if necessary

    Thus, the law and those enforcing it are brought into disrepute, through a combination of regulations that have either not been properly thought through or which the political leadership, which has ultimate power of direction, lacks the backbone to see properly enforced; and an inability to act with sensitivity and discretion.

    If BLM was allowed then so should tonight's protest - and was any serious effort made to compromise with those people and ask nicely if they might at least two metre distance, which there was plenty of space to do, or did the police simply insist that they go home?

    What a mess.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870

    https://twitter.com/LambethMPS/status/1370817219660292099?s=19

    I bet they would never have dared tweet this in regards BLM protests....people tightly packed risk regards COVID.

    Yebbut, hang on, the Met is "Institutionally racist" - innit!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    Dick is 60. Mythoughts are that she will retire
  • Front page of every newspaper tomorrow:

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1370846119991734272

    Resignations at highest level in the morning

    Dick and others plus where is Khan as London mayor in this
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    edited March 2021

    September 2020 really was Boris's nadir.

    I was texting every Tory MP I knew then telling them to get rid of him.
    I had a bit more faith that he could turn things around, and so far the picture is much improved.

    That chart is particularly troubling for SKS though, if the only way he can overtake Boris as best PM - and very briefly at that - is when everything is going wrong for the government all at once. He didn't even manage it after the Christmas chaos!
    SKS fans think he is a future PM

    Problem is he will never be a current PM though
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1370838932729040902

    nigh on 30% positivity rate in Poland ......
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Charles said:

    Doubly ironic that as women, attempting to protest Sarah Everard’s murder by a policeman, are wrestled to the ground by...policemen...PB’s finest pass the time with nob jokes.

    Meanwhile, on Tuesday, Priti Patel introduces to Parliament a new policing bill that gives police even more powers to suppress peaceful protest.

    That's because it's too fucking depressing.

    The Met needs to be burnt to the ground and reconstituted.
    Now even Tories want to defund the police...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Front page of every newspaper tomorrow:

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1370846119991734272

    Resignations at highest level in the morning

    Dick and others plus where is Khan as London mayor in this
    He's hiding. Of course.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083

    Front page of every newspaper tomorrow:

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1370846119991734272

    Resignations at highest level in the morning

    Dick and others plus where is Khan as London mayor in this
    Khan goes submarine when shit hits the fan.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Front page of every newspaper tomorrow:

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1370846119991734272

    Resignations at highest level in the morning

    Dick and others plus where is Khan as London mayor in this
    These feckers dont have the decency to resign
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    You're looking at it from the wrong perspective (okay, I know I said it was about victims). What matters is the perpetrator. If a black man gets killed by a cop, then it would be big news.

    Okay but that is all part of the same problem. For some reason as a society we have this notion that certain types of victims or perpetrators make a crime more or less outrageous, ranging between the extremes of public frenzy to total disinterest. Our repsonse and interest is at odds with reality.
    I said the other day that the news reports the unusual and I don't know how to solve that problem.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548
    My view of the police is sadly - and I have often tried to think wrongly - very low as the result of years of experience and observation. Too many friends picked up and mistreated for being the wrong age or the wrong colour or just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Too much time spent on petty annoyances and not enough on dealing with crime and protecting the public. So I fully admit that every time an article like this from Cyclefree is written I lap it up.

    But I also recognise my bias and try to rebalance it by actively trying to look at it from a pro-Police point of view. Usually with at least some modicum of success.

    And then something like this on Clapham Common happens and I think fuck it. Charles is right. Burn them down and start again.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Charles said:

    Front page of every newspaper tomorrow:

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1370846119991734272

    Resignations at highest level in the morning

    Dick and others plus where is Khan as London mayor in this
    He's hiding. Of course.
    Sound political instincts from the sounds of it.
  • Even the most lefty types I follow on Twitter wondering why no statement from Sadiq Khan.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    RobD said:

    Doubly ironic that as women, attempting to protest Sarah Everard’s murder by a policeman, are wrestled to the ground by...policemen...PB’s finest pass the time with nob jokes.

    Meanwhile, on Tuesday, Priti Patel introduces to Parliament a new policing bill that gives police even more powers to suppress peaceful protest.

    You are totally right about the Met being out of their minds. And the contrast with previous protests is quite striking. They should be ashamed.

    What are the new restrictions being imposed?
    The bill will amend the Public Order Act 1986, which gave police power to restrict demonstrations if there is a risk to “serious public disorder, serious damage to property or serious disruption to the life of the community.”

    The amendment will further allow police to restrict demos if the *noise* of a protest “may result in serious disruption to the activities of an organisation” or have “a relevant impact on persons in the vicinity of the procession”.

    This is a very low threshold which effectively renders any and all demonstration subject to potential restriction.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Steve Baker's mind works in a very unusual way. I am not sure anyone else has made the same extrapolation.

    Steve Baker again adding 2 and 2 and finding the answer is probably 22.
    It's actually not such a leap of logic. Baker wants rid of the lockdown regulations. The lockdown regulations effectively outlaw protest. You can argue that the protests are not justified because the lockdown regulations are essential and must not be contravened, but there seems nothing at all odd about his making the contrary case.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    Floater said:

    Front page of every newspaper tomorrow:

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1370846119991734272

    Resignations at highest level in the morning

    Dick and others plus where is Khan as London mayor in this
    These feckers dont have the decency to resign
    Well indeed, Jenrick and Cummings set that precedent last year.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939
    The Met supporting their colleague, who happens to have been charged with murdering an innocent woman.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    The head of the Met is not going to have support from a single Conservative MP.

    Toryless Cressida.....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    Article from back in 2017 re. Cressida Dick and Jean-Charles de Menezes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/17/de-menezes-family-call-cressida-dick-barred-from-leading-met
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    RobD said:

    Doubly ironic that as women, attempting to protest Sarah Everard’s murder by a policeman, are wrestled to the ground by...policemen...PB’s finest pass the time with nob jokes.

    Meanwhile, on Tuesday, Priti Patel introduces to Parliament a new policing bill that gives police even more powers to suppress peaceful protest.

    You are totally right about the Met being out of their minds. And the contrast with previous protests is quite striking. They should be ashamed.

    What are the new restrictions being imposed?
    The bill will amend the Public Order Act 1986, which gave police power to restrict demonstrations if there is a risk to “serious public disorder, serious damage to property or serious disruption to the life of the community.”

    The amendment will further allow police to restrict demos if the *noise* of a protest “may result in serious disruption to the activities of an organisation” or have “a relevant impact on persons in the vicinity of the procession”.

    This is a very low threshold which effectively renders any and all demonstration subject to potential restriction.
    I assume this is not a time-limited measure related to the current pandemic?

    The change you quote doesn't seem that drastic, risk of public disorder or serious damage to property are surely already criteria for stopping a protest? The one about noise does seem silly though.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    edited March 2021
    Scott_xP said:
    Because there wasn't a demonstration at that time? Not exactly sure what you are getting at.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    You're looking at it from the wrong perspective (okay, I know I said it was about victims). What matters is the perpetrator. If a black man gets killed by a cop, then it would be big news.

    Okay but that is all part of the same problem. For some reason as a society we have this notion that certain types of victims or perpetrators make a crime more or less outrageous, ranging between the extremes of public frenzy to total disinterest. Our repsonse and interest is at odds with reality.
    Jess Phillips read out the names of over a hundred murdered women this week in Parliament. This sort of random off the street murder is news because it is rare.

    Women being made to feel unsafe by male harassment in the street is not a rare event though. Every woman has tales of this sort of male aggression and anger. Mrs Foxy was just telling me of such an event earlier.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Wait - I agree with him - I need a lie down......
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870

    September 2020 really was Boris's nadir.

    I was texting every Tory MP I knew then telling them to get rid of him.
    I had a bit more faith that he could turn things around, and so far the picture is much improved.

    That chart is particularly troubling for SKS though, if the only way he can overtake Boris as best PM - and very briefly at that - is when everything is going wrong for the government all at once. He didn't even manage it after the Christmas chaos!
    SKS fans think he is a future PM

    Problem is he will never be a current PM though
    SKSICIPM
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Floater said:

    Front page of every newspaper tomorrow:

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1370846119991734272

    Resignations at highest level in the morning

    Dick and others plus where is Khan as London mayor in this
    These feckers dont have the decency to resign
    Well indeed, Jenrick and Cummings set that precedent last year.
    You are comparing this to someone who may have broken a regulation to deliver stuff to his parents?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,476

    There are three interlinked problems here.

    1. The police have been presented with regulations that instruct them that all demonstrations are effectively forbidden
    2. However, the regulations contain the fundamental flaw that, depending upon the size of the demo, they may be very hard to enforce: if the demonstration in question is both big enough, and contains a sufficient risk of violence if it is broken up, then the rules are at risk of being rendered meaningless. This is, of course, what happened with BLM
    3. Unable to do anything about the large demonstrations, the police then fail to apply a consistency of approach to the smaller ones and instead insist on dispersing them, using force if necessary

    Thus, the law and those enforcing it are brought into disrepute, through a combination of regulations that have either not been properly thought through or which the political leadership, which has ultimate power of direction, lacks the backbone to see properly enforced; and an inability to act with sensitivity and discretion.

    If BLM was allowed then so should tonight's protest - and was any serious effort made to compromise with those people and ask nicely if they might at least two metre distance, which there was plenty of space to do, or did the police simply insist that they go home?

    What a mess.
    I agree totally. However, that situation is not sustainable - the police cannot be intimidated by large mobs whilst cracking down on small protests. It's not good enough.

    Patel will want resignations on her desk tomorrow - if she doesn't, it could be her job on the line.

  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    The head of the Met is not going to have support from a single Conservative MP.

    Toryless Cressida.....

    Nooo! Did you have to Troilus with that pun?
This discussion has been closed.