LOST IN THE WOODS: Labour’s Challenge for the 2020s – politicalbetting.com
LOST IN THE WOODS: Labour’s Challenge for the 2020s – politicalbetting.com
Cards on the table – I don’t understand the Labour Party any more. I used to – a quarter century of membership, Chair, Treasurer, Secretary, Councillor. Then, like so many long-term Labour voters, I left the party.
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Labour's top team as a weak as England's batting line up.0
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Labour's problems are amply demonstrated by its leader, a north London lawyer, getting it oh so wrong about levelling up yesterday. Put Darlington solidly in the blue column next time - and probably a raft of Red Wall seats too, if the Keir sneer is all they are going to get.4
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In Poland, 15,250 new cases were reported on Thursday, the highest since the previous peak in November. That's up 26% from the number of new cases reported seven days ago - it shows that the third coronavirus wave in Poland is gathering pace, health ministry officials say.1
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Vaccine take-up in London among people aged 80 and older continues to lag behind other regions of England, the latest NHS figure show.
An estimated 83.2% of people in this age group in the capital have had their first dose of Covid-19 vaccine, according to NHS England, while uptake in other regions is thought to be at least 95%.0 -
"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-122358480 -
While they have the cheek to be all high and mighty over the UK extending the NI grace period, calling us untrustworthy partners....Andy_JS said:"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-122358481 -
I suspect Rochdale Pioneers has aged into a Tory, but hasn't figured this out yet
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I wonder if Bashir will suddenly recover from being unwell.1
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I'm pretty pleased with my place as Health Secretary in PB's cabinet of woe as we all know that is where political careers go to die.0
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This a cabinet from the 1950s.Stocky said:
How `bout this for a PB.com cabinet:turbotubbs said:
While this is clearly a joke, in fact there has been some very sound thinking and advice on this very forum. There are enough experts from a wide variety of disciplines to contribute. A bit like how parliament ought to be, but sadly isn't.Richard_Nabavi said:
PB Brains Trust, obv.TOPPING said:
That's strange. PB Brains Trust I get it. But First Minister vs some random doctor?
Who do you think has the better access to the bigger picture and advice?
If pb was in charge of the pandemic response, it would have been 'different', but also interesting...
Prime Minister: Stodge
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Contrarian
Foreign Secretary: DavidL
Home Secretary: Black Rook
Justice: Kinabalu
Health: Gallowgate
Work and pensions: Nabavi
Education: Ydoethur
Department for International Trade: PT
Defence: HYUFD
Secretary of State for Scotland: MalcyG
Chief Whip: Topping
Cyclefree is making the tea, right ?2 -
Cheers Rochdale, this is the sort of thing Labour should be looking at,
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1367425959327133701
It makes me realise how fortunate I have been.0 -
Thank you for an excellent article. Two points:
The nearest thing, even if not very near, to the sort of Labour party you are wanting among the candidates for running the country is called the Conservatives. That's why lots of Labour voters now vote for them. The fact that Labour members describe these voters as scum etc is enough to ensure they won't come back.
The fact that the author of the article is not now a member of the Labour party after years of public service in and for that party tells me all I need to know about why I can't currently vote for them as a government, though I vote Labour for our county council. The excellent man I vote for (who wins) has not got a single good word to say about his own party on the national level.1 -
In the next week Italy will hit the grim milestone of 100,000 dead (of course, in reality, they are already there, but still). They also suffered 22,000 cases today, the worst since the turn of the yearAndy_JS said:"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-12235848
You can see why there are intense political pressures to do this. However it is a quick route to making the EU globally unpopular1 -
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map
I see the City of Leicester has finally dipped below 200 cases per 100k. Good to see no more dark blue Upper Tier Local Authorities!0 -
So, that national security risk who resigned in disgrace should be forced to resign again.
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/13675027080606638220 -
Can't help feeling that the rumoured EU er.... comment to Australia on the UK application for CPTPP is going to have the opposite effect intended....Andy_JS said:"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-122358481 -
Starmer didn't sneer about Darlington at all. The full quote was on the last thread - did you read it? He was making a valid point that any government that was deadly serious about levelling up would be doing much more radical reform than was contained in yesterday's budget. I don't have a problem with what Sunak announced on Darlington and other measures (and nor does Starmer), and it's a start, but the structural reforms needed to really equalise power, wealth and influence across the regions will take a lot more genuinely redistributive measures than the Tories would countenance, I suspect. At the moment, the shifting of resources to the north seems to be mainly focused on securing marginal seats. Mind you, I'm not sure that the current Labour Party would countenance the sort of changes needed to move power away from London either.MarqueeMark said:Labour's problems are amply demonstrated by its leader, a north London lawyer, getting it oh so wrong about levelling up yesterday. Put Darlington solidly in the blue column next time - and probably a raft of Red Wall seats too, if the Keir sneer is all they are going to get.
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UK cases by specimen date
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UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100k population
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Ah, yes. That thing that definitively wasn't going to happen, because it was just an export monitoring system.Andy_JS said:"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-122358481 -
UK Local R
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Also a good post, and good points.algarkirk said:Thank you for an excellent article. Two points:
The nearest thing, even if not very near, to the sort of Labour party you are wanting among the candidates for running the country is called the Conservatives. That's why lots of Labour voters now vote for them. The fact that Labour members describe these voters as scum etc is enough to ensure they won't come back.
The fact that the author of the article is not now a member of the Labour party after years of public service in and for that party tells me all I need to know about why I can't currently vote for them as a government, though I vote Labour for our county council. The excellent man I vote for (who wins) has not got a single good word to say about his own party on the national level.
There is a smidgeon of a window on spending post-Covid given that we have become inured to the many billions flung around but I don't think the current lot have the finesse to seize the opportunity.0 -
UK case summary
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Don't worry. I've been sacked after a rumpus at the first meeting and she is now at Justice.YBarddCwsc said:
This a cabinet from the 1950s.Stocky said:
How `bout this for a PB.com cabinet:turbotubbs said:
While this is clearly a joke, in fact there has been some very sound thinking and advice on this very forum. There are enough experts from a wide variety of disciplines to contribute. A bit like how parliament ought to be, but sadly isn't.Richard_Nabavi said:
PB Brains Trust, obv.TOPPING said:
That's strange. PB Brains Trust I get it. But First Minister vs some random doctor?
Who do you think has the better access to the bigger picture and advice?
If pb was in charge of the pandemic response, it would have been 'different', but also interesting...
Prime Minister: Stodge
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Contrarian
Foreign Secretary: DavidL
Home Secretary: Black Rook
Justice: Kinabalu
Health: Gallowgate
Work and pensions: Nabavi
Education: Ydoethur
Department for International Trade: PT
Defence: HYUFD
Secretary of State for Scotland: MalcyG
Chief Whip: Topping
Cyclefree is making the tea, right ?0 -
UK hospitals
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UK deaths
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It's interesting how the Conservative Party can never get away from the upper-middle class / upper class vs lower/middle middle-class battle. It used to be Edward Heath vs Willie Whitelaw, then it was Margaret Thatcher vs Geoffrey Howe, John Major vs Michael Heseltine, David Davis vs David Cameron, and now it's Rishi Sunak vs Priti Patel.0
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Covid looking at grim rises in various places across the EU.
I hope we aren't relying on them not being stupid with any vaccine deliveries due to be imported. They'll just say "Ireland" - and steal them.1 -
Only if she brings her own PG Tips.YBarddCwsc said:
This a cabinet from the 1950s.Stocky said:
How `bout this for a PB.com cabinet:turbotubbs said:
While this is clearly a joke, in fact there has been some very sound thinking and advice on this very forum. There are enough experts from a wide variety of disciplines to contribute. A bit like how parliament ought to be, but sadly isn't.Richard_Nabavi said:
PB Brains Trust, obv.TOPPING said:
That's strange. PB Brains Trust I get it. But First Minister vs some random doctor?
Who do you think has the better access to the bigger picture and advice?
If pb was in charge of the pandemic response, it would have been 'different', but also interesting...
Prime Minister: Stodge
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Contrarian
Foreign Secretary: DavidL
Home Secretary: Black Rook
Justice: Kinabalu
Health: Gallowgate
Work and pensions: Nabavi
Education: Ydoethur
Department for International Trade: PT
Defence: HYUFD
Secretary of State for Scotland: MalcyG
Chief Whip: Topping
Cyclefree is making the tea, right ?0 -
Gallowgate for Lord Chancellor please.kinabalu said:
Don't worry. I've been sacked after a rumpus at the first meeting and she is now at Justice.YBarddCwsc said:
This a cabinet from the 1950s.Stocky said:
How `bout this for a PB.com cabinet:turbotubbs said:
While this is clearly a joke, in fact there has been some very sound thinking and advice on this very forum. There are enough experts from a wide variety of disciplines to contribute. A bit like how parliament ought to be, but sadly isn't.Richard_Nabavi said:
PB Brains Trust, obv.TOPPING said:
That's strange. PB Brains Trust I get it. But First Minister vs some random doctor?
Who do you think has the better access to the bigger picture and advice?
If pb was in charge of the pandemic response, it would have been 'different', but also interesting...
Prime Minister: Stodge
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Contrarian
Foreign Secretary: DavidL
Home Secretary: Black Rook
Justice: Kinabalu
Health: Gallowgate
Work and pensions: Nabavi
Education: Ydoethur
Department for International Trade: PT
Defence: HYUFD
Secretary of State for Scotland: MalcyG
Chief Whip: Topping
Cyclefree is making the tea, right ?
Mr Meeks for Brexit Secretary?
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UK R
From cases data
From hospital admissions
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Of course not. But he created a trap for himself which he stepped right into, providing a line for the Tories which they will push for all they are worth, exactly as MM is doing here.Northern_Al said:
Starmer didn't sneer about Darlington at all...MarqueeMark said:Labour's problems are amply demonstrated by its leader, a north London lawyer, getting it oh so wrong about levelling up yesterday. Put Darlington solidly in the blue column next time - and probably a raft of Red Wall seats too, if the Keir sneer is all they are going to get.
It's a small illustration of why he's not a very good leader.
(And of course, irrespective of whether he intended to sneer, the fact that his inner ear didn't pick up the possible implication of what he said suggests that it's not impossible that he might.)2 -
UK age related data
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Ambrose at the Telegraph is getting all Cassandra about the EUMarqueeMark said:Covid looking at grim rises in various places across the EU.
I hope we aren't relying on them not being stupid with any vaccine deliveries due to be imported. They'll just say "Ireland" - and steal them.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/03/04/macron-joker-now-europe-blunders-fateful-third-wave-pandemic/?WT.mc_id=e_DM1344813&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_Edi_New_Sub&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_Edi_New_Sub20210304&utm_campaign=DM1344813
I do enjoy his articles. Often they are quite mad but they are always entertaining, and sometimes he nails a point like no one else
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UK age related data - scaled to 100K population per age group
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Yes. Not to be po-faced but the standard of political debate is really heading south.Northern_Al said:
Starmer didn't sneer about Darlington at all. The full quote was on the last thread - did you read it? He was making a valid point that any government that was deadly serious about levelling up would be doing much more radical reform than was contained in yesterday's budget. I don't have a problem with what Sunak announced on Darlington and other measures (and nor does Starmer), and it's a start, but the structural reforms needed to really equalise power, wealth and influence across the regions will take a lot more genuinely redistributive measures than the Tories would countenance, I suspect. At the moment, the shifting of resources to the north seems to be mainly focused on securing marginal seats. Mind you, I'm not sure that the current Labour Party would countenance the sort of changes needed to move power away from London either.MarqueeMark said:Labour's problems are amply demonstrated by its leader, a north London lawyer, getting it oh so wrong about levelling up yesterday. Put Darlington solidly in the blue column next time - and probably a raft of Red Wall seats too, if the Keir sneer is all they are going to get.
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I got on you being first out at 16/1....kinabalu said:
Don't worry. I've been sacked after a rumpus at the first meeting and she is now at Justice.YBarddCwsc said:
This a cabinet from the 1950s.Stocky said:
How `bout this for a PB.com cabinet:turbotubbs said:
While this is clearly a joke, in fact there has been some very sound thinking and advice on this very forum. There are enough experts from a wide variety of disciplines to contribute. A bit like how parliament ought to be, but sadly isn't.Richard_Nabavi said:
PB Brains Trust, obv.TOPPING said:
That's strange. PB Brains Trust I get it. But First Minister vs some random doctor?
Who do you think has the better access to the bigger picture and advice?
If pb was in charge of the pandemic response, it would have been 'different', but also interesting...
Prime Minister: Stodge
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Contrarian
Foreign Secretary: DavidL
Home Secretary: Black Rook
Justice: Kinabalu
Health: Gallowgate
Work and pensions: Nabavi
Education: Ydoethur
Department for International Trade: PT
Defence: HYUFD
Secretary of State for Scotland: MalcyG
Chief Whip: Topping
Cyclefree is making the tea, right ?2 -
Excellent thread RP.
Though now you've put the strange image of Starmer starring as Kristoff in Frozen 2 singing Lost in the Woods.3 -
Great header. Truth is I think we’re well past the moment for a traditional “party of labour” in this country. I suspect its mission is only going to become relevant again when the robots - AI take all the jobs. Which very well may start to become obvious by the next election but one.
Malms: with positivity rates this low (and some false positives too) and absolute test numbers so high, how many cases are realistically being missed now?1 -
UK vaccinations
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The shifting out of London had to start high up as all previous attempts have ended up being abject failures as senior civil servants tried to remain in London.Northern_Al said:
Starmer didn't sneer about Darlington at all. The full quote was on the last thread - did you read it? He was making a valid point that any government that was deadly serious about levelling up would be doing much more radical reform than was contained in yesterday's budget. I don't have a problem with what Sunak announced on Darlington and other measures (and nor does Starmer), and it's a start, but the structural reforms needed to really equalise power, wealth and influence across the regions will take a lot more genuinely redistributive measures than the Tories would countenance, I suspect. At the moment, the shifting of resources to the north seems to be mainly focused on securing marginal seats. Mind you, I'm not sure that the current Labour Party would countenance the sort of changes needed to move power away from London either.MarqueeMark said:Labour's problems are amply demonstrated by its leader, a north London lawyer, getting it oh so wrong about levelling up yesterday. Put Darlington solidly in the blue column next time - and probably a raft of Red Wall seats too, if the Keir sneer is all they are going to get.
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Why on earth is Australia relying on the EU for their vaccines?Andy_JS said:"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-122358480 -
Hence the sense in our deal with the big production centre in India for AZN......MarqueeMark said:Covid looking at grim rises in various places across the EU.
I hope we aren't relying on them not being stupid with any vaccine deliveries due to be imported. They'll just say "Ireland" - and steal them.1 -
It's a bit late for Labour to rush into the boomer cultural signifiers about the swinging Sixties or Empire nostalgia or twee towns, and to turn against millennials-Gen Z. That may well be a recipe to bury the Labour Party and replace it with a Conservative - Green party system.1
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Yes, that is pretty rubbish.kinabalu said:
Yes. Not to be po-faced but the standard of political debate is really heading south.Northern_Al said:
Starmer didn't sneer about Darlington at all. The full quote was on the last thread - did you read it? He was making a valid point that any government that was deadly serious about levelling up would be doing much more radical reform than was contained in yesterday's budget. I don't have a problem with what Sunak announced on Darlington and other measures (and nor does Starmer), and it's a start, but the structural reforms needed to really equalise power, wealth and influence across the regions will take a lot more genuinely redistributive measures than the Tories would countenance, I suspect. At the moment, the shifting of resources to the north seems to be mainly focused on securing marginal seats. Mind you, I'm not sure that the current Labour Party would countenance the sort of changes needed to move power away from London either.MarqueeMark said:Labour's problems are amply demonstrated by its leader, a north London lawyer, getting it oh so wrong about levelling up yesterday. Put Darlington solidly in the blue column next time - and probably a raft of Red Wall seats too, if the Keir sneer is all they are going to get.
More pertinently, what are Keir's proposed changes to level up the North?2 -
THey're getting 50m doses from their own factory, and 3m imported (not anymore) whilst they wait for the factory to get going - so they're not really.GIN1138 said:
Why on earth is Australia relying on the EU for their vaccines?Andy_JS said:"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-12235848
This is just the EU destroying their FDI numbers for domestic political consumption over doses they're incapable of finding takers for4 -
Interesting article, and some very good points.
As an aside, and apologies in advance - but is it just me that now has an image of Keir as Kristoff from Frozen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8jNbZIsBQU 1 -
Having said thatTheScreamingEagles said:Cheers Rochdale, this is the sort of thing Labour should be looking at,
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1367425959327133701
It makes me realise how fortunate I have been.
2008/09 minimum wage £5.73
£5.73 in 2020 money is £7.82
2020/21 minimum wage is £8.72
That's an 11.5% increase in real terms.0 -
(OT) The descriptions of Biden as soft on China seem misplaced.
https://twitter.com/cliffordcoonan/status/1367513458078584833
...The first island chain consists of a group of islands including Taiwan, Okinawa and the Philippines, which China sees as the first line of defense. Beijing's "anti-access/area denial" strategy seeks to push American forces out of the East and South China seas within the first island chain....
China is not going to like this at all.1 -
Sort of on topic, the fresh new face of SLab. I'm afraid the prospect of Goggsy Broon speechifying put me off watching it all the way through, but I imagine Anas was smart enough not to include a union flag.
https://twitter.com/PeterArnottGlas/status/1367503700864950283?s=200 -
Not just you. Glad its not just me eitherLennon said:Interesting article, and some very good points.
As an aside, and apologies in advance - but is it just me that now has an image of Keir as Kristoff from Frozen?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8jNbZIsBQU 2 -
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@RochdalePioneers
Can what you suggest here - on tone and empathy - be combined with radical re-distributive policies, do you think?0 -
Yep, my initial reaction to that stat is it must just be a massive negative mix effect from growing the bottom of the pyramidPhilip_Thompson said:
Having said thatTheScreamingEagles said:Cheers Rochdale, this is the sort of thing Labour should be looking at,
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1367425959327133701
It makes me realise how fortunate I have been.
2008/09 minimum wage £5.73
£5.73 in 2020 money is £7.82
2020/21 minimum wage is £8.72
That's an 11.5% increase in real terms.1 -
Ah right. That's what I thought (they should have their won factory making facilities)maaarsh said:
THey're getting 50m doses from their own factory, and 3m imported (not anymore) whilst they wait for the factory to get going - so they're not really.GIN1138 said:
Why on earth is Australia relying on the EU for their vaccines?Andy_JS said:"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-122358480 -
I expect the biggest losers are the middle-classes.Philip_Thompson said:
Having said thatTheScreamingEagles said:Cheers Rochdale, this is the sort of thing Labour should be looking at,
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1367425959327133701
It makes me realise how fortunate I have been.
2008/09 minimum wage £5.73
£5.73 in 2020 money is £7.82
2020/21 minimum wage is £8.72
That's an 11.5% increase in real terms.1 -
Yes, I've been posting on here for a year now. (Before that I lurked, but was too busy to post because I had to earn a living - god knows how some people on here who still work find the time to post so much.) There remain many really interesting and thoughtful posters who contribute to debate, from all sides, and make me think. However, I'm pretty confident that there's been a notable increase over the last year in partisan point-scoring focusing on absolute trivia; it sort of mirrors the approach of a government in permanent campaigning, point-scoring mode, I guess. Far be it for me to suggest which side of the political spectrum most of the trivia comes from. And I'm not talking about the humorous posts, which are splendid - just the sort of fake news, attack the 'woke', gotcha posts.kinabalu said:
Yes. Not to be po-faced but the standard of political debate is really heading south.Northern_Al said:
Starmer didn't sneer about Darlington at all. The full quote was on the last thread - did you read it? He was making a valid point that any government that was deadly serious about levelling up would be doing much more radical reform than was contained in yesterday's budget. I don't have a problem with what Sunak announced on Darlington and other measures (and nor does Starmer), and it's a start, but the structural reforms needed to really equalise power, wealth and influence across the regions will take a lot more genuinely redistributive measures than the Tories would countenance, I suspect. At the moment, the shifting of resources to the north seems to be mainly focused on securing marginal seats. Mind you, I'm not sure that the current Labour Party would countenance the sort of changes needed to move power away from London either.MarqueeMark said:Labour's problems are amply demonstrated by its leader, a north London lawyer, getting it oh so wrong about levelling up yesterday. Put Darlington solidly in the blue column next time - and probably a raft of Red Wall seats too, if the Keir sneer is all they are going to get.
4 -
The pb.com cabinet has now moved from the 1950s to the early 1960s.kinabalu said:
Don't worry. I've been sacked after a rumpus at the first meeting and she is now at Justice.YBarddCwsc said:
This a cabinet from the 1950s.Stocky said:
How `bout this for a PB.com cabinet:turbotubbs said:
While this is clearly a joke, in fact there has been some very sound thinking and advice on this very forum. There are enough experts from a wide variety of disciplines to contribute. A bit like how parliament ought to be, but sadly isn't.Richard_Nabavi said:
PB Brains Trust, obv.TOPPING said:
That's strange. PB Brains Trust I get it. But First Minister vs some random doctor?
Who do you think has the better access to the bigger picture and advice?
If pb was in charge of the pandemic response, it would have been 'different', but also interesting...
Prime Minister: Stodge
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Contrarian
Foreign Secretary: DavidL
Home Secretary: Black Rook
Justice: Kinabalu
Health: Gallowgate
Work and pensions: Nabavi
Education: Ydoethur
Department for International Trade: PT
Defence: HYUFD
Secretary of State for Scotland: MalcyG
Chief Whip: Topping
Cyclefree is making the tea, right ?
Much more work needed on EDI, pb.com is still way, way behind the wicked Tories0 -
I posted this at the end of the last thread.
It's not of any immediate alarm, but it's another indication of why we need to get the pandemic ended through vaccination as quickly as possible.
https://twitter.com/Bergthalerlab/status/13675082142338416690 -
It's a very interesting stat to look at in detail. In certain industries like ours wage growth has been phenomenal since 2009 but because of the way remuneration packages have changed wrt bonuses the actual overall pay has probably gone down since the 2007/8 bubble peaks.TheScreamingEagles said:Cheers Rochdale, this is the sort of thing Labour should be looking at,
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1367425959327133701
It makes me realise how fortunate I have been.
In other industries the calculation actually hides significant wage growth at the bottom and top because there's a great mass of people earning between £22-35k who have seen very little wage growth.0 -
The Australians may have been trying to smooth things over - it's still middle of the night there - but I suspect there will be comment in a few hours time:Malmesbury said:
Can't help feeling that the rumoured EU er.... comment to Australia on the UK application for CPTPP is going to have the opposite effect intended....Andy_JS said:"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-12235848
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/europe-blocks-250-000-astrazeneca-doses-bound-for-australia-20210305-p577z3.html
A raft of international deliveries were authorised without a hitch over recent weeks, but Rome has now opposed the delivery to Australia. Rome’s objection was endorsed by the European Commission. Italy’s objection may have been lodged as long ago as last week – raising questions about whether the Australian government knew there was a problem but has not said anything publicly in the hope the standoff could be resolved.
AstraZeneca currently manufactures the vaccine in Netherlands and Belgium, but uses partners in Germany and Italy to “fill” the medication into into vials and package it. Comment has been sought from Australia’s Health Minister Greg Hunt. A European Union official confirmed a Financial Times report that the shipment had been blocked, but declined to comment. AstraZenca has also been contacted for comment.0 -
Good.Nigelb said:(OT) The descriptions of Biden as soft on China seem misplaced.
https://twitter.com/cliffordcoonan/status/1367513458078584833
...The first island chain consists of a group of islands including Taiwan, Okinawa and the Philippines, which China sees as the first line of defense. Beijing's "anti-access/area denial" strategy seeks to push American forces out of the East and South China seas within the first island chain....
China is not going to like this at all.0 -
Thank you Rochdale Pioneers for this piece.
In my view the clue is in the name: Labour.
It’s about jobs, meaningful jobs.
And support from state services that allow all to live in dignity.
Rishi’s budget actually continues the austerity of the 2010s, and doesn’t really do anything for jobs with the exception of the corporate investment subsidy.
Keir does get this I think, if my scanning of his budget response is fair - but he hasn’t figured out how to communicate that properly to the public in a compelling way.3 -
No one resigns anymore. It is so old school. (North and South of the Border).TheScreamingEagles said:So, that national security risk who resigned in disgrace should be forced to resign again.
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/13675027080606638220 -
At this rate the Aussies will get kicked out of the Eurovision song contest.CarlottaVance said:
The Australians may have been trying to smooth things over - it's still middle of the night there - but I suspect there will be comment in a few hours time:Malmesbury said:
Can't help feeling that the rumoured EU er.... comment to Australia on the UK application for CPTPP is going to have the opposite effect intended....Andy_JS said:"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-12235848
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/europe-blocks-250-000-astrazeneca-doses-bound-for-australia-20210305-p577z3.html2 -
I wonder if we'll all have to have regular booster jabs every 12 months or so to take account of the variants. A little bit like how they tweak to the Flu jab every year?Nigelb said:I posted this at the end of the last thread.
It's not of any immediate alarm, but it's another indication of why we need to get the pandemic ended through vaccination as quickly as possible.
https://twitter.com/Bergthalerlab/status/13675082142338416690 -
Singapore welcomes and supports the UK’s formal application on 1 February 2021 to accede to the CPTPP.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/singapore-uk-joint-statement-2021-a-partnership-for-the-future/singapore-uk-joint-statement-2021-a-partnership-for-the-future7 -
"The South African and Brazil variants top 10pc in eleven French departments, and 54pc in Moselle. The UK’s latest flap over an escaped case of the Brazil case seems surreal when set against events on our Continental doorstep."Leon said:
Ambrose at the Telegraph is getting all Cassandra about the EUMarqueeMark said:Covid looking at grim rises in various places across the EU.
I hope we aren't relying on them not being stupid with any vaccine deliveries due to be imported. They'll just say "Ireland" - and steal them.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/03/04/macron-joker-now-europe-blunders-fateful-third-wave-pandemic/?WT.mc_id=e_DM1344813&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_Edi_New_Sub&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_Edi_New_Sub20210304&utm_campaign=DM1344813
I do enjoy his articles. Often they are quite mad but they are always entertaining, and sometimes he nails a point like no one else0 -
That`s a very good header. I agree with most of it.
"Labour does not understand these voters. They are culturally conservative, economically prudent, nationalistic and insular. Labour aren’t any of these things any more. "
You say "Labour aren’t any of these things any more" but they never have been have they? The difference now is that they have been rumbled, chiefly over Brexit and their tolerance of identity-politics idiocy.1 -
Yes, I don't disagree with that. As I said, it's a start. But real levelling up is a huge, huge project.eek said:
The shifting out of London had to start high up as all previous attempts have ended up being abject failures as senior civil servants tried to remain in London.Northern_Al said:
Starmer didn't sneer about Darlington at all. The full quote was on the last thread - did you read it? He was making a valid point that any government that was deadly serious about levelling up would be doing much more radical reform than was contained in yesterday's budget. I don't have a problem with what Sunak announced on Darlington and other measures (and nor does Starmer), and it's a start, but the structural reforms needed to really equalise power, wealth and influence across the regions will take a lot more genuinely redistributive measures than the Tories would countenance, I suspect. At the moment, the shifting of resources to the north seems to be mainly focused on securing marginal seats. Mind you, I'm not sure that the current Labour Party would countenance the sort of changes needed to move power away from London either.MarqueeMark said:Labour's problems are amply demonstrated by its leader, a north London lawyer, getting it oh so wrong about levelling up yesterday. Put Darlington solidly in the blue column next time - and probably a raft of Red Wall seats too, if the Keir sneer is all they are going to get.
0 -
Get in there, lass!williamglenn said:Singapore welcomes and supports the UK’s formal application on 1 February 2021 to accede to the CPTPP.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/singapore-uk-joint-statement-2021-a-partnership-for-the-future/singapore-uk-joint-statement-2021-a-partnership-for-the-future2 -
Lass?????MarqueeMark said:
Get in there, lass!williamglenn said:Singapore welcomes and supports the UK’s formal application on 1 February 2021 to accede to the CPTPP.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/singapore-uk-joint-statement-2021-a-partnership-for-the-future/singapore-uk-joint-statement-2021-a-partnership-for-the-future
0 -
Brown's speech is a four second clip. It's not a bad PPB for selling what Labour are - which isn't much under the current circs.Theuniondivvie said:Sort of on topic, the fresh new face of SLab. I'm afraid the prospect of Goggsy Broon speechifying put me off watching it all the way through, but I imagine Anas was smart enough not to include a union flag.
https://twitter.com/PeterArnottGlas/status/1367503700864950283?s=200 -
Brexit is not economically prudent.Stocky said:That`s a very good header. I agree with most of it.
"Labour does not understand these voters. They are culturally conservative, economically prudent, nationalistic and insular. Labour aren’t any of these things any more. "
You say "Labour aren’t any of these things any more" but they never have been have they? The difference now is that they have been rumbled, chiefly over Brexit and their tolerance of identity-politics idiocy.
Neither really are the blue wall voters, or they would not have voted for it.2 -
Very much the top end of what you would get from a tribunal except in very extreme examples which this wasn't one.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Yes, and it needs root & branch reform not mere tinkering. We need to get more women and minorities (inc young people under 55) to want to enter PB.com in the first place. The barriers must be removed and at least for a period there could be value in giving things a firm push with some affirmative action.YBarddCwsc said:
The pb.com cabinet has now moved from the 1950s to the early 1960s.kinabalu said:
Don't worry. I've been sacked after a rumpus at the first meeting and she is now at Justice.YBarddCwsc said:
This a cabinet from the 1950s.Stocky said:
How `bout this for a PB.com cabinet:turbotubbs said:
While this is clearly a joke, in fact there has been some very sound thinking and advice on this very forum. There are enough experts from a wide variety of disciplines to contribute. A bit like how parliament ought to be, but sadly isn't.Richard_Nabavi said:
PB Brains Trust, obv.TOPPING said:
That's strange. PB Brains Trust I get it. But First Minister vs some random doctor?
Who do you think has the better access to the bigger picture and advice?
If pb was in charge of the pandemic response, it would have been 'different', but also interesting...
Prime Minister: Stodge
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Contrarian
Foreign Secretary: DavidL
Home Secretary: Black Rook
Justice: Kinabalu
Health: Gallowgate
Work and pensions: Nabavi
Education: Ydoethur
Department for International Trade: PT
Defence: HYUFD
Secretary of State for Scotland: MalcyG
Chief Whip: Topping
Cyclefree is making the tea, right ?
Much more work needed on EDI, pb.com is still way, way behind the wicked Tories0 -
NigelB: I just saw another paper, which you may have posted, where some of the co-authors are from Novavax, which implied the opposite - that the T-cell response was very hardy to viral mutation as they recognize a larger number of epitopes than do antibodies.GIN1138 said:
I wonder if we'll all have to have regular booster jabs every 12 months or so to take account of the variants. A little bit like how they tweak to the Flu jab every year?Nigelb said:I posted this at the end of the last thread.
It's not of any immediate alarm, but it's another indication of why we need to get the pandemic ended through vaccination as quickly as possible.
https://twitter.com/Bergthalerlab/status/1367508214233841669
Do you think the results of this study might, to some extent, be an artifact of doing a cell-free study, and looking at epitopes individually (if that is what they did), rather than at the total in vivo T-cell response?0 -
Austerity is not quite the word for a Conservative government whose expenditure is £850 bn, a huge proportion of which is borrowed, and vast sums of which are redistributed to less well off people.Gardenwalker said:Thank you Rochdale Pioneers for this piece.
In my view the clue is in the name: Labour.
It’s about jobs, meaningful jobs.
And support from state services that allow all to live in dignity.
Rishi’s budget actually continues the austerity of the 2010s, and doesn’t really do anything for jobs with the exception of the corporate investment subsidy.
Keir does get this I think, if my scanning of his budget response is fair - but he hasn’t figured out how to communicate that properly to the public in a compelling way.
0 -
He bascially got 2 years wages.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It would not be the first time Labour's mask has slipped - remember Gillian Duffy. The reason it resonates is because there is a kernel of truth there. The excellent header from RP - who I normally have little to agree with totally nailed the key problem. The educated m/c urban wing concentrated in London and university towns have a very different mindset from small town w/c regions where many of their traditional base live. Indeed the former now have a contempt for the latter - something probably unthinkable for the m/c Fabians of an earlier age. It is a real dilemma for the party. What saves it is the absence in England and Wales of a moderate centre left alternative.Nigelb said:
Of course not. But he created a trap for himself which he stepped right into, providing a line for the Tories which they will push for all they are worth, exactly as MM is doing here.Northern_Al said:
Starmer didn't sneer about Darlington at all...MarqueeMark said:Labour's problems are amply demonstrated by its leader, a north London lawyer, getting it oh so wrong about levelling up yesterday. Put Darlington solidly in the blue column next time - and probably a raft of Red Wall seats too, if the Keir sneer is all they are going to get.
It's a small illustration of why he's not a very good leader.
(And of course, irrespective of whether he intended to sneer, the fact that his inner ear didn't pick up the possible implication of what he said suggests that it's not impossible that he might.)1 -
I hope AZN sit on the doses - very uncomfortable for them, but this sort of behaviour can't be rewarded.GIN1138 said:
Ah right. That's what I thought (they should have their won factory making facilities)maaarsh said:
THey're getting 50m doses from their own factory, and 3m imported (not anymore) whilst they wait for the factory to get going - so they're not really.GIN1138 said:
Why on earth is Australia relying on the EU for their vaccines?Andy_JS said:"COVID-19: Italy and EU block Oxford vaccine shipment to Australia"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-122358481 -
Actually, I like to think if we were still in the EU we would indeed have persuaded them to behave in a more reasonable way, so I suppose I agree with Layla Moran on this.CarlottaVance said:2 -
Well you shouldn't have started a row about covering up the No 10 portrait of Maggie before we even started the first cabinet meeting.kinabalu said:
Don't worry. I've been sacked after a rumpus at the first meeting and she is now at Justice.YBarddCwsc said:
This a cabinet from the 1950s.Stocky said:
How `bout this for a PB.com cabinet:turbotubbs said:
While this is clearly a joke, in fact there has been some very sound thinking and advice on this very forum. There are enough experts from a wide variety of disciplines to contribute. A bit like how parliament ought to be, but sadly isn't.Richard_Nabavi said:
PB Brains Trust, obv.TOPPING said:
That's strange. PB Brains Trust I get it. But First Minister vs some random doctor?
Who do you think has the better access to the bigger picture and advice?
If pb was in charge of the pandemic response, it would have been 'different', but also interesting...
Prime Minister: Stodge
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Contrarian
Foreign Secretary: DavidL
Home Secretary: Black Rook
Justice: Kinabalu
Health: Gallowgate
Work and pensions: Nabavi
Education: Ydoethur
Department for International Trade: PT
Defence: HYUFD
Secretary of State for Scotland: MalcyG
Chief Whip: Topping
Cyclefree is making the tea, right ?1 -
The Coalition and Conservative Govts. since 2010 deserve considerable plaudits for pushing this up. They make Labour look very cheap. Almost Victorian mill-owner in comparison....Philip_Thompson said:
Having said thatTheScreamingEagles said:Cheers Rochdale, this is the sort of thing Labour should be looking at,
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1367425959327133701
It makes me realise how fortunate I have been.
2008/09 minimum wage £5.73
£5.73 in 2020 money is £7.82
2020/21 minimum wage is £8.72
That's an 11.5% increase in real terms.0 -
Not so much lost in the woods but utterly unaware that its actually a forest.3
-
Disraeli surely - it's a 1950s cabinet, no?Richard_Nabavi said:
Well you shouldn't have started a row about covering up the No 10 portrait of Maggie before we even started the first cabinet meeting.kinabalu said:
Don't worry. I've been sacked after a rumpus at the first meeting and she is now at Justice.YBarddCwsc said:
This a cabinet from the 1950s.Stocky said:
How `bout this for a PB.com cabinet:turbotubbs said:
While this is clearly a joke, in fact there has been some very sound thinking and advice on this very forum. There are enough experts from a wide variety of disciplines to contribute. A bit like how parliament ought to be, but sadly isn't.Richard_Nabavi said:
PB Brains Trust, obv.TOPPING said:
That's strange. PB Brains Trust I get it. But First Minister vs some random doctor?
Who do you think has the better access to the bigger picture and advice?
If pb was in charge of the pandemic response, it would have been 'different', but also interesting...
Prime Minister: Stodge
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Contrarian
Foreign Secretary: DavidL
Home Secretary: Black Rook
Justice: Kinabalu
Health: Gallowgate
Work and pensions: Nabavi
Education: Ydoethur
Department for International Trade: PT
Defence: HYUFD
Secretary of State for Scotland: MalcyG
Chief Whip: Topping
Cyclefree is making the tea, right ?0 -
But starts with small movements.Northern_Al said:
Yes, I don't disagree with that. As I said, it's a start. But real levelling up is a huge, huge project.eek said:
The shifting out of London had to start high up as all previous attempts have ended up being abject failures as senior civil servants tried to remain in London.Northern_Al said:
Starmer didn't sneer about Darlington at all. The full quote was on the last thread - did you read it? He was making a valid point that any government that was deadly serious about levelling up would be doing much more radical reform than was contained in yesterday's budget. I don't have a problem with what Sunak announced on Darlington and other measures (and nor does Starmer), and it's a start, but the structural reforms needed to really equalise power, wealth and influence across the regions will take a lot more genuinely redistributive measures than the Tories would countenance, I suspect. At the moment, the shifting of resources to the north seems to be mainly focused on securing marginal seats. Mind you, I'm not sure that the current Labour Party would countenance the sort of changes needed to move power away from London either.MarqueeMark said:Labour's problems are amply demonstrated by its leader, a north London lawyer, getting it oh so wrong about levelling up yesterday. Put Darlington solidly in the blue column next time - and probably a raft of Red Wall seats too, if the Keir sneer is all they are going to get.
And having people on the ground seeing the real issues up close will help that far more than second hand anecdotes their hear from their glass tower in London.0 -
A pandemic which has been particularly harsh in the UK thanks to a series of government bungles has not only seen far more deaths than should have been, but needless economic pain as well.
Agree with most of the article, but not sure about the BiB above. The way I see it is that the perfect possible play involved a similar amount of economic pain but a much lower death toll.0 -
Haha.kinabalu said:
Yes, and it needs root & branch reform not mere tinkering. We need to get more women and minorities (inc young people under 55) to want to enter PB.com in the first place. The barriers must be removed and at least for a period there could be value in giving things a firm push with some affirmative action.YBarddCwsc said:
The pb.com cabinet has now moved from the 1950s to the early 1960s.kinabalu said:
Don't worry. I've been sacked after a rumpus at the first meeting and she is now at Justice.YBarddCwsc said:
This a cabinet from the 1950s.Stocky said:
How `bout this for a PB.com cabinet:turbotubbs said:
While this is clearly a joke, in fact there has been some very sound thinking and advice on this very forum. There are enough experts from a wide variety of disciplines to contribute. A bit like how parliament ought to be, but sadly isn't.Richard_Nabavi said:
PB Brains Trust, obv.TOPPING said:
That's strange. PB Brains Trust I get it. But First Minister vs some random doctor?
Who do you think has the better access to the bigger picture and advice?
If pb was in charge of the pandemic response, it would have been 'different', but also interesting...
Prime Minister: Stodge
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Contrarian
Foreign Secretary: DavidL
Home Secretary: Black Rook
Justice: Kinabalu
Health: Gallowgate
Work and pensions: Nabavi
Education: Ydoethur
Department for International Trade: PT
Defence: HYUFD
Secretary of State for Scotland: MalcyG
Chief Whip: Topping
Cyclefree is making the tea, right ?
Much more work needed on EDI, pb.com is still way, way behind the wicked Tories
In truth, PB could do with more women, younger folk, and people who don’t live in a semi-detached in the Midlands.1 -
Of course Labour were the ones who implemented the Minimum Wage to begin with, and to much Conservative opposition I believe.MarqueeMark said:
The Coalition and Conservative Govts. since 2010 deserve considerable plaudits for pushing this up. They make Labour look very cheap. Almost Victorian mill-owner in comparison....Philip_Thompson said:
Having said thatTheScreamingEagles said:Cheers Rochdale, this is the sort of thing Labour should be looking at,
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1367425959327133701
It makes me realise how fortunate I have been.
2008/09 minimum wage £5.73
£5.73 in 2020 money is £7.82
2020/21 minimum wage is £8.72
That's an 11.5% increase in real terms.1 -
As a scot [Scotland being virtually a LAB-free zone nowadays] I'm always interested in hearing about the LAB party. Many very sensible suggestions here, great post.0
-
Austerity to public services.algarkirk said:
Austerity is not quite the word for a Conservative government whose expenditure is £850 bn, a huge proportion of which is borrowed, and vast sums of which are redistributed to less well off people.Gardenwalker said:Thank you Rochdale Pioneers for this piece.
In my view the clue is in the name: Labour.
It’s about jobs, meaningful jobs.
And support from state services that allow all to live in dignity.
Rishi’s budget actually continues the austerity of the 2010s, and doesn’t really do anything for jobs with the exception of the corporate investment subsidy.
Keir does get this I think, if my scanning of his budget response is fair - but he hasn’t figured out how to communicate that properly to the public in a compelling way.
Austerity in wage growth.0 -
Only of interest to historians. The Conservatives have now run with making it work - and found the money to fund it properly.Gallowgate said:
Of course Labour were the ones who implemented the Minimum Wage to begin with, and to much Conservative opposition I believe.MarqueeMark said:
The Coalition and Conservative Govts. since 2010 deserve considerable plaudits for pushing this up. They make Labour look very cheap. Almost Victorian mill-owner in comparison....Philip_Thompson said:
Having said thatTheScreamingEagles said:Cheers Rochdale, this is the sort of thing Labour should be looking at,
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1367425959327133701
It makes me realise how fortunate I have been.
2008/09 minimum wage £5.73
£5.73 in 2020 money is £7.82
2020/21 minimum wage is £8.72
That's an 11.5% increase in real terms.0 -
Government doesn’t fund the Minimum Wage, except as an employer.MarqueeMark said:
Only of interest to historians. The Conservatives have now run with making it work - and found the money to fund it properly.Gallowgate said:
Of course Labour were the ones who implemented the Minimum Wage to begin with, and to much Conservative opposition I believe.MarqueeMark said:
The Coalition and Conservative Govts. since 2010 deserve considerable plaudits for pushing this up. They make Labour look very cheap. Almost Victorian mill-owner in comparison....Philip_Thompson said:
Having said thatTheScreamingEagles said:Cheers Rochdale, this is the sort of thing Labour should be looking at,
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1367425959327133701
It makes me realise how fortunate I have been.
2008/09 minimum wage £5.73
£5.73 in 2020 money is £7.82
2020/21 minimum wage is £8.72
That's an 11.5% increase in real terms.0
