A fractured SNP will struggle to campaign at full-throttle – politicalbetting.com
A fractured SNP will struggle to campaign at full-throttle – politicalbetting.com
If you lose your head, it’s all over. Not quite what one Scot (who was at the time an Egyptian-born Spaniard), said to another (though that one was American), but it might as well have been. Wise words to an immortal; wiser still to a politician – and ones that Scottish nationalists would do well to reflect on.
Comments
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First?1
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and thinking of snipping in half my party membership card over the direction they are going0
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Good piece David. The big unknown in all of this, is when is the tipping point that brings the story out into the mainstream? Until now it’s been brewing away, but mostly ignored by the ‘Westminster’ media.
There’s a reasonable argument to be made that the sacking of Cherry is that point, and we might be hearing a lot more this week as the Salmond enquiry unfolds.0 -
Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.14 -
One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?
Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.
But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.0 -
There were some interesting questions asked on here yesterday of the Crown Office, who seem to have somewhat dropped their required impartiality, not to the detriment of the incumbent government.ydoethur said:One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?
Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.
But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.
Who has the power to abolish or force reform on such an organisation, if the Scottish government won’t?
Maybe there’s a Scottish QC with a grievance, who might want to peruse this?1 -
Well, I would have thought the UK Parliament can do so simply by amending the relevant act, in this case the Scotland Act. After all, powers are granted to the devolved administration by Westminster and can therefore presumably be removed.Sandpit said:
There were some interesting questions asked on here yesterday of the Crown Office, who seem to have somewhat dropped their required impartiality, not to the detriment of the incumbent government.ydoethur said:One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?
Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.
But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.
Who has the power to abolish or force reform on such an organisation, if the Scottish government won’t?
Maybe there’s a Scottish QC with a grievance, who might want to peruse this?
But I don’t know.
And Stokes, you idiot. Why did you throw it away like that?0 -
Yes, agreed. The more pertinent questions are I guess the political ones. What you’d want to do, is to set monitorable goals for an organisation, such as might be done for a problematic county council, where it has a chance to sort itself out before ultimate sanctions are applied.ydoethur said:
Well, I would have thought the UK Parliament can do so simply by amending the relevant act, in this case the Scotland Act. After all, powers are granted to the devolved administration by Westminster and can therefore presumably be removed.Sandpit said:
There were some interesting questions asked on here yesterday of the Crown Office, who seem to have somewhat dropped their required impartiality, not to the detriment of the incumbent government.ydoethur said:One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?
Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.
But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.
Who has the power to abolish or force reform on such an organisation, if the Scottish government won’t?
Maybe there’s a Scottish QC with a grievance, who might want to peruse this?
But I don’t know.
And Stokes, you idiot. Why did you throw it away like that?
There is of course the more general issue of politics in the quangocracy, which New Labour pushed hard, the SNP appear to have replaced one with another over time, and a certain government advisor was determined to replace in England.
And yes, Stokes was an idiot for that. Could have been a century there.0 -
Must be tough being a Scottish voter. Pissed off at being on the wrong end of UK democratic decisions. But in a devolved Scotland, getting a shit-show of incompetence, stupidity and nepotism, now with the added bonus of a legal system that is swiftly being brought deeply into disrepute.ydoethur said:Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.
Bullying and belligerence are the stock in trade of the SNP's troops, to mask and deflect from their lack of answers and ability across the range of government - as we will no doubt see on this thread. Many tempted by independence will still have grave concerns that those who would take them there have no answers to the questions that lost them the vote in 2014 - on jobs, on the economy, on the currency, on the role of Scotland in an EU any would be hard-pressed to hold out as a beacon of hope.
The only thing that independence answers is "not this". But foor those that would wish them well in their split from the UK, the alternative on the evidence to date looks like it could be a change to the very tawdry.
A sorry state of affairs.5 -
Excellent article. The lead article in The Spectator this week also argues that the SNP isn't like a "normal" political party - where different politicians can offer slightly different takes on policies and the interpretation of its philosophy - but operates more like a bloc vote and it's written into its rulebook; virtually no-one ever rebels at either Westminster or Holyrood.
Nevertheless, I do expect them to win a clear majority in May at Holyrood. The Conservatives are too unpopular - and may go backwards in fishing communities - and Labour too listless (and leaderless) to make a dent. The best I could see is more SNP votes switching to the Greens, but they are also pro-independence.
Final thought: in the 2010GE Labour did well in Scotland because there was a Scottish PM and Scottish Chancellor in contention for the UK.
As always, identity is critical. Voters will forgive (or ignore) an awful lot else.1 -
Many of us were the same.ydoethur said:Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.
Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.
Mistake.3 -
That is Stokes for you. He is a genius who gets out sometimes when he ought not to. Love the genius, accept the occasional flaw. Pope looks accomplished...Sandpit said:
Yes, agreed. The more pertinent questions are I guess the political ones. What you’d want to do, is to set monitorable goals for an organisation, such as might be done for a problematic county council, where it has a chance to sort itself out before ultimate sanctions are applied.ydoethur said:
Well, I would have thought the UK Parliament can do so simply by amending the relevant act, in this case the Scotland Act. After all, powers are granted to the devolved administration by Westminster and can therefore presumably be removed.Sandpit said:
There were some interesting questions asked on here yesterday of the Crown Office, who seem to have somewhat dropped their required impartiality, not to the detriment of the incumbent government.ydoethur said:One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?
Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.
But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.
Who has the power to abolish or force reform on such an organisation, if the Scottish government won’t?
Maybe there’s a Scottish QC with a grievance, who might want to peruse this?
But I don’t know.
And Stokes, you idiot. Why did you throw it away like that?
There is of course the more general issue of politics in the quangocracy, which New Labour pushed hard, the SNP appear to have replaced one with another over time, and a certain government advisor was determined to replace in England.
And yes, Stokes was an idiot for that. Could have been a century there.3 -
On threads. One can only pray that the whole deck of cards comes crashing down on the SNP. Watch, wait enjoy what is to come ....0
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About 10th.
Thanks for the piece, David.
A couple of nice quotes:
Labour and the Lib Dems should trad very carefully
err. yep.
I prefer Yogi: It ain't over until..., since if I mention fat ladies someone will be perpetually offended.
or perhaps Pooh:
Before beginning a Hunt, it is wise to ask someone what you are looking for before you begin looking for it.2 -
The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?1
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Perhaps somebody has been looking at the financial situation and is concerned it will reorganise itself via the bankruptcy of PCTs if they don’t?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
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Russian bots moving on from disrupting US elections with misinformation, to trying to convince Spanish-speaking South America that Western vaccines are evil:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/technology/russia-covid-vaccine-disinformation.html1 -
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
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Interesting piece, thanks @david_herdson
I've been struggling to keep up with the Cherry story so this helps.0 -
They appear to know what the proposed option is going to be, although much of the detail is still to be announced. Hunt on R4 just now described it as undoing not only the Lansley reforms but the Milburn reforms and some of the Ken Clarke reforms. One specific appears to be removing the obligation to tender services to the private sector, and it also appears there's an element of government power grab with more powers for ministers to direct NHS priorities.Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
The latter suggests a learning point from the pandemic - but also suggests the almost-as-good-as-promised inquiry/review will be a long time in coming, since changes to NHS management and direction would be an obvious output from a retrospective on covid.1 -
Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
1 -
Highest score by a batsman played in their centennial test.
What a season Joe Root is having.4 -
I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.rottenborough said:
Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
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I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.ydoethur said:
I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.rottenborough said:
Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
1 -
With an election three years away?MattW said:
I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.ydoethur said:
I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.rottenborough said:
Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
That’s as optimistic as my hopes for a date with Margot Robbie.0 -
Margot is disappointing, you’re not missing much.ydoethur said:
With an election three years away?MattW said:
I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.ydoethur said:
I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.rottenborough said:
Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
That’s as optimistic as my hopes for a date with Margot Robbie.7 -
Now THAT is how you get to the first ever double hundred by a player in their hundredth test.
What a shot, what an innings, what a riposte to all his critics.
Which have, of course, never included me, how dare you say such a thing and rake up all those old posts which were actually written by my tomcat.4 -
Sheffield's Joe Root like Sheffield lads is awesome.0
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On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.4
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Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.Casino_Royale said:
Many of us were the same.ydoethur said:Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.
Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.
Mistake.
Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.
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Yeah, that so would have worked.Scott_xP said:1 -
Clearly no10 view independence as a near certainty and are taking advantage.ThomasNashe said:
Yeah, that so would have worked.Scott_xP said:
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Closer to four yearsydoethur said:
With an election three years away?MattW said:
I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.ydoethur said:
I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.rottenborough said:
Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
That’s as optimistic as my hopes for a date with Margot Robbie.
. 0 -
At this moment, it’s scheduled for May 2024.MattW said:Listeninf
Closer to four yearsydoethur said:
With an election three years away?MattW said:
I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.ydoethur said:
I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.rottenborough said:
Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
That’s as optimistic as my hopes for a date with Margot Robbie. .
There are moves to change that, but formidable practical difficulties in the way.
And even if there weren’t, I suspect the government would prefer a spring election to another autumn or winter one.1 -
There would be riots if that happenedydoethur said:One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?
Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.
But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.0 -
On NI: interesting short piece by Bogdanor.
"a Unionist government negotiated a nationalist solution."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/05/solution-irish-border-problem/1 -
Especially if they hadn't kept it a secret, as planned.ThomasNashe said:
Yeah, that so would have worked.Scott_xP said:0 -
I am very confused what @david_herdson means by
Into that already-charged atmosphere, the party has not only embraced the political grenade of full trans rights advocacy but did so via dodgy procedural dealing
Reform of the GRA was an item in the SNP manifesto. I fail to understand what was dodgy about this?1 -
Good morning.
I don`t follow cricket - can someone explain why England aren`t declaring at 450? Won`t they run out of time for the win?0 -
Off topic, if I was American, I'd vote for Been Sasse.0
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Man's face eaten by leopard...
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/13579677912912527371 -
Fucking LOL.Scott_xP said:
Let's hope he's upgraded his car since the last time he was in the public eye.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBilGkxGFF80 -
Yep. Half an hour before the end of the second day, with 600 on the board and preferably someone running interference on the umpire’s light meter.rcs1000 said:
Ultimately, they have to bowl India out twice. Declaring now doesn't help with that. Better to get 600 runs on the board.Stocky said:Good morning.
I don`t follow cricket - can someone explain why England aren`t declaring at 450? Won`t they run out of time for the win?
It doesn’t work as well as it used to, now they play for a fixed 90 overs a day, instead of until sunset.0 -
The tragedy will be if Tories or Labour ever get back in. It is the nutters from Labour who have caused half the bother, aided and abetted by the Ceaușescu'sJonathan said:
Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.Casino_Royale said:
Many of us were the same.ydoethur said:Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.
Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.
Mistake.
Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.0 -
Tories want it ready to sell off to their chums and the Yanks. Big big money to be made for them.ydoethur said:
Perhaps somebody has been looking at the financial situation and is concerned it will reorganise itself via the bankruptcy of PCTs if they don’t?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
0 -
I think you want to bat longer first knock in India than you do in say England, it's not an overcast evening at Trent bridge.1
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What disappoints me is that there seems to me to be an acceptable range of views. From the scientific man has xy chromosome and woman xx, natural as in seen in nature, to the sex / sexuality has a multitude of shades and differences and people should be able to identify and act accordingly.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.
Didn't we used to have matters of conscience. It's not as if the traditional side is saying that women should stay at home and work and men must be mechanics!! There is plenty of concern from for example battered wives concerned that a violent husband would have claimed to be a woman to track them down.
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Cannot be worse than being treated like crap by a fat clown in Westminster. Mine as well be stiffed by Scottish crooks, no users , etcMarqueeMark said:
Must be tough being a Scottish voter. Pissed off at being on the wrong end of UK democratic decisions. But in a devolved Scotland, getting a shit-show of incompetence, stupidity and nepotism, now with the added bonus of a legal system that is swiftly being brought deeply into disrepute.ydoethur said:Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.
Bullying and belligerence are the stock in trade of the SNP's troops, to mask and deflect from their lack of answers and ability across the range of government - as we will no doubt see on this thread. Many tempted by independence will still have grave concerns that those who would take them there have no answers to the questions that lost them the vote in 2014 - on jobs, on the economy, on the currency, on the role of Scotland in an EU any would be hard-pressed to hold out as a beacon of hope.
The only thing that independence answers is "not this". But foor those that would wish them well in their split from the UK, the alternative on the evidence to date looks like it could be a change to the very tawdry.
A sorry state of affairs.0 -
Yup, from the last England tour of India.Pulpstar said:I think you want to bat longer first knock in India than you do in say England, it's not an overcast evening at Trent bridge.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2016-17-1030195/india-vs-england-5th-test-1034817/full-scorecard0 -
So do we believe the assertion of Fox News that cancelling Lou Dobbs has nothing to do with the $2.7 billion defamation lawsuit by Smartmatic?
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/feb/05/fox-news-lou-dobbs-tonight-canceled1 -
Nearly 4 years is a long time in politics.ydoethur said:
At this moment, it’s scheduled for May 2024.MattW said:Listeninf
Closer to four yearsydoethur said:
With an election three years away?MattW said:
I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.ydoethur said:
I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.rottenborough said:
Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
That’s as optimistic as my hopes for a date with Margot Robbie. .
There are moves to change that, but formidable practical difficulties in the way.
And even if there weren’t, I suspect the government would prefer a spring election to another autumn or winter one.1 -
Coincidence...TheScreamingEagles said:So do we believe the assertion of Fox News that cancelling Lou Dobbs has nothing to do with the $2.7 billion defamation lawsuit by Smartmatic?
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/feb/05/fox-news-lou-dobbs-tonight-canceled
https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1357889582059188225
https://twitter.com/alexburnsNYT/status/13578712314002964481 -
How about this as an idea: the UK government passes a referendum act (with retrospective effect) to say that there can be no second referendum on a constitutional matter within 25 years.
Sell it as a brexit measure (but it catches Scotland as well)
Determination of whether it is a constitutional matter left to the government (acting quasi-judicially) with a right of appeal to Supreme Court
Provision that it can only be set aside by a specific resolution in Parliament voted on by both houses
I suspect no one really gets upset except the SNP and may be a few EU obsessives.2 -
Yes they want to trash women's rights just to pander to a miniscule group who think their rights are the only ones that count and all others rights should be trashed to fit their views, even though they already have the same rights.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.
3 -
My sympathies here lie with Sturgeon. She inherited a difficult problem, and she largely did what I think I would have done in the same circumstances.
If you want a sexual harassment case that led to the resignation of a First Minister, see Carwyn Jones.
As always, Welsh Labour provide a text-book case in how NOT to handle it.2 -
A couple of points to add to the above. Firstly, that "scientific" approach is what you where (probably) taught at GCSE science level but, as all such teaching at that level must, it omits a lot of nuance and detail. There’s an individual out in the world right now with 99% XY chromosomal cells who has given birth twice! (There’s a whole academic paper saying not much more than "no: really, we checked!") Surely she is a woman? Right? That’s just one (admittedly rare) example: there are many others that are far more common. What about female presenting intersex people? Some intersex are female in every way you might expect, except they don’t have a womb / ovaries so they can’t gestate & they have XY chromosomes, others might have almost any mix of personal & physical gender presentation.Nemtynakht said:
What disappoints me is that there seems to me to be an acceptable range of views. From the scientific man has xy chromosome and woman xx, natural as in seen in nature, to the sex / sexuality has a multitude of shades and differences and people should be able to identify and act accordingly.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.
Didn't we used to have matters of conscience. It's not as if the traditional side is saying that women should stay at home and work and men must be mechanics!! There is plenty of concern from for example battered wives concerned that a violent husband would have claimed to be a woman to track them down.
The list of people who don’t fit into "XX is female, XY is male" is long & the anti-trans campaigners are quite happy to throw all of them under the proverbial bus in order to get what they want.
Secondly, I agree entirely that if this could be a "matter of conscience" that was purely personal then, like religious differences, we could all agree to get along. But the goals of "gender critical feminism" is in direct conflict with those of trans people (GC feminists tend to not care about transmen, seeing them mostly as confused lesbians. They reserve their ire for trans women) - GC feminists regard the entry of trans women into female spaces as something to be resisted at all costs.
This is what has poisoned the discourse - you have a committed, campaigning group who’s goals are in direct conflict with the desire of trans people to be able to live their lives as their desired gender. I don’t think there is a solution possible, except one side or the other "winning".3 -
Who would have thought a toff lickspittle would have come up with such a colonial viewpoint. The views of more than 50% of Scottish people don't matter.Charles said:How about this as an idea: the UK government passes a referendum act (with retrospective effect) to say that there can be no second referendum on a constitutional matter within 25 years.
Sell it as a brexit measure (but it catches Scotland as well)
Determination of whether it is a constitutional matter left to the government (acting quasi-judicially) with a right of appeal to Supreme Court
Provision that it can only be set aside by a specific resolution in Parliament voted on by both houses
I suspect no one really gets upset except the SNP and may be a few EU obsessives.0 -
There was a poll just a couple of days ago and Nicola was something like +21 (net) and the SNP were +8. The trouble being caused by the battle with Salmond has threatened her position within the party but she remains dominant in Scottish politics and extremely popular. Her mother of the nation role throughout the pandemic has solidified that position and given her a profile so far ahead of her cabinet as to be out of sight.
For David's analysis and prediction to come true Sturgeon has to go. If she remains in charge of the SNP I really struggle to see the SNP not getting a majority (much though I would want to). Those that play close attention and are, in fairness, instinctively hostile look at what has been going on with really strange calls by Crown Office, by retrospective rule changes to catch Salmond, by Civil Servants behaving in a truly extraordinary fashion and conclude that there is something rotten in the State of Bute House, something deeply unhealthy and undemocratic, but it is delusional to think that this is having the sort of impact on Scottish opinion that it should have.
The only people capable of binging Sturgeon down are those in the SNP. I wish them luck.2 -
We need to talk about Joe Root's shocking conversion rate, he's never converted a 200 into a 300.3
-
We are damn lucky Russian troll farms did not influence British voters; it is just coincidence the results came out the same way.Sandpit said:Russian bots moving on from disrupting US elections with misinformation, to trying to convince Spanish-speaking South America that Western vaccines are evil:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/technology/russia-covid-vaccine-disinformation.html0 -
Couldn't a future Lab/SNP coalition repeal it?Charles said:How about this as an idea: the UK government passes a referendum act (with retrospective effect) to say that there can be no second referendum on a constitutional matter within 25 years.
Sell it as a brexit measure (but it catches Scotland as well)
Determination of whether it is a constitutional matter left to the government (acting quasi-judicially) with a right of appeal to Supreme Court
Provision that it can only be set aside by a specific resolution in Parliament voted on by both houses
I suspect no one really gets upset except the SNP and may be a few EU obsessives.1 -
I did point this out in my header last May, that centralised "Command and Control" was a major step change in the NHS:IanB2 said:
They appear to know what the proposed option is going to be, although much of the detail is still to be announced. Hunt on R4 just now described it as undoing not only the Lansley reforms but the Milburn reforms and some of the Ken Clarke reforms. One specific appears to be removing the obligation to tender services to the private sector, and it also appears there's an element of government power grab with more powers for ministers to direct NHS priorities.Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
The latter suggests a learning point from the pandemic - but also suggests the almost-as-good-as-promised inquiry/review will be a long time in coming, since changes to NHS management and direction would be an obvious output from a retrospective on covid.
"It is quite striking how at the first whiff of gunpowder the policy of the last 30 years of localised commissioning and increased independence of providers vapourised. Since March the NHS has had a top down system more centralised than ever in its history. Decision making descends from Whitehall, and while some of these decisions may well have been mistaken or reckless, others have been more successful. Even Mr Corbyn must have raised a quizzical eyebrow at the requisitioning of the Private Hospitals, and effective abolition of private medical practice in the UK for the first time in history.
How long will this centralised system continue? Or will services be restored to local organisational control, with all the risks of fragmentation"
From:https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/05/17/28-weeks-later-the-coronavirus-aftermath-for-the-nhs-and-its-political-implications/
I have no particular axe to grind about NHS reforms, or at least since I left the Labour Party in the early noughties because of Milburn reforms and Iraq. Reforms come and go, and I always politely listen to the latest garbage from wet behind the ears management consultants. I have seen it all before, and let it wash over. A year or two later a new reform always scraps the one that preceeded it, and along come a fresh cohort of fresh faced MBAs who know nothing of health.
I got some things wrong in that header, particularly underestimating the second and third waves. This only makes the waiting lists longer though.
Those 40 hospitals need building now, but more importantly we need a plan for training. It isn't only schoolkids who have missed a year, we have trainee surgeons that haven’t operated for a year, and junior cardiologists who can manage CPAP but not unstable angina. There is a lot of burnout, and will be a lot of early retirements. Building a hospital will be easier than staffing it.4 -
Retrospective legislation is the tool of the devil.Charles said:How about this as an idea: the UK government passes a referendum act (with retrospective effect) to say that there can be no second referendum on a constitutional matter within 25 years.
Sell it as a brexit measure (but it catches Scotland as well)
Determination of whether it is a constitutional matter left to the government (acting quasi-judicially) with a right of appeal to Supreme Court
Provision that it can only be set aside by a specific resolution in Parliament voted on by both houses
I suspect no one really gets upset except the SNP and may be a few EU obsessives.
How about if the next Labour government passed legislation saying all previous plebiscites are revoked unless they got over >75% of the electorate's support.1 -
Sounds like Labour's programme (which older readers will remember was pinched by Boris in ge2019) filtered through Dominic Cummings.rottenborough said:
Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
0 -
I was rewatching the greatest test innings on Sky the other night where they were replaying his heroics at Headingly. Joe Root was one of those commenting and said that he had been sitting beside Josh Buttler who, after one particular reverse sweep into the Western Terraces called him a freak. As Joe pointed out when Buttler is describing your shot ability as freakish you are something special indeed.squareroot2 said:
That is Stokes for you. He is a genius who gets out sometimes when he ought not to. Love the genius, accept the occasional flaw. Pope looks accomplished...Sandpit said:
Yes, agreed. The more pertinent questions are I guess the political ones. What you’d want to do, is to set monitorable goals for an organisation, such as might be done for a problematic county council, where it has a chance to sort itself out before ultimate sanctions are applied.ydoethur said:
Well, I would have thought the UK Parliament can do so simply by amending the relevant act, in this case the Scotland Act. After all, powers are granted to the devolved administration by Westminster and can therefore presumably be removed.Sandpit said:
There were some interesting questions asked on here yesterday of the Crown Office, who seem to have somewhat dropped their required impartiality, not to the detriment of the incumbent government.ydoethur said:One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?
Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.
But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.
Who has the power to abolish or force reform on such an organisation, if the Scottish government won’t?
Maybe there’s a Scottish QC with a grievance, who might want to peruse this?
But I don’t know.
And Stokes, you idiot. Why did you throw it away like that?
There is of course the more general issue of politics in the quangocracy, which New Labour pushed hard, the SNP appear to have replaced one with another over time, and a certain government advisor was determined to replace in England.
And yes, Stokes was an idiot for that. Could have been a century there.0 -
Even when she is gone David , the SNP will still win comfortably. Question is whether she can last till after the election and plan an escape route or the whole house of cards falls in on her before that. May all come down to whether Andy Wightman has bollox as he will have the casting vote. The independent inquiry may also get her as it is very obvious she lied to parliament , having even admitted to the meeting she denied she had in parliament. There is also the £500K + ringfenced referendum fund that has been misplaced somewhere, suspected to have been used for the SNP bigwigs legal costs and defamation payouts.DavidL said:There was a poll just a couple of days ago and Nicola was something like +21 (net) and the SNP were +8. The trouble being caused by the battle with Salmond has threatened her position within the party but she remains dominant in Scottish politics and extremely popular. Her mother of the nation role throughout the pandemic has solidified that position and given her a profile so far ahead of her cabinet as to be out of sight.
For David's analysis and prediction to come true Sturgeon has to go. If she remains in charge of the SNP I really struggle to see the SNP not getting a majority (much though I would want to). Those that play close attention and are, in fairness, instinctively hostile look at what has been going on with really strange calls by Crown Office, by retrospective rule changes to catch Salmond, by Civil Servants behaving in a truly extraordinary fashion and conclude that there is something rotten in the State of Bute House, something deeply unhealthy and undemocratic, but it is delusional to think that this is having the sort of impact on Scottish opinion that it should have.
The only people capable of binging Sturgeon down are those in the SNP. I wish them luck.
It will be an avalanche once the dam breaks.0 -
Government has said it will consider bilateral arrangements. But Peter Foster’s judgement is the EU isn’t interested.Scott_xP said:Man's face eaten by leopard...
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/13579677912912527372 -
I think the root cause of this is not respecting the Scottish identity enough and arguing how Scotland's interests can best be delivered through a wider British union, where they have strong influence, in the 21st Century.Jonathan said:
Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.Casino_Royale said:
Many of us were the same.ydoethur said:Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.
Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.
Mistake.
Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.
It's been building through peaks and troughs since the 1960s.2 -
A while back someone pointed out all the fears about trans people was very similar to the fears about gay people in the 80s and 90s.Nemtynakht said:
What disappoints me is that there seems to me to be an acceptable range of views. From the scientific man has xy chromosome and woman xx, natural as in seen in nature, to the sex / sexuality has a multitude of shades and differences and people should be able to identify and act accordingly.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.
Didn't we used to have matters of conscience. It's not as if the traditional side is saying that women should stay at home and work and men must be mechanics!! There is plenty of concern from for example battered wives concerned that a violent husband would have claimed to be a woman to track them down.
Lowering the age of consent for gay people from 21 to 18/16 would lead to serried ranks of gay men standing outside schools which is similar to the fears that men pretending to be women would be visiting women's changings room.
There are other examples.3 -
Cook gave it the kiss of death talking about it in the studioTheScreamingEagles said:We need to talk about Joe Root's shocking conversion rate, he's never converted a 200 into a 300.
0 -
Peter Foster has decided to become the lovechild of Faisal Islam. They are two peas in a pod.Charles said:
Government has said it will consider bilateral arrangements. But Peter Foster’s judgement is the EU isn’t interested.Scott_xP said:Man's face eaten by leopard...
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357967791291252737
I follow Tony Connelly for objective analysis.2 -
" ... received £100 a week “pocket money” in exchange for about 25 hours of childcare per week. "Scott_xP said:Man's face eaten by leopard...
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240
There really are no-one as mean as the British upper middle-classes, the Remain constituency par excellence .
Let the bastards pay a reasonable wage, & I am sure they will be able to find child-care.7 -
The 40 hospitals was never going to happen, similar to the message on that bus, tories just lie.Foxy said:
I did point this out in my header last May, that centralised "Command and Control" was a major step change in the NHS:IanB2 said:
They appear to know what the proposed option is going to be, although much of the detail is still to be announced. Hunt on R4 just now described it as undoing not only the Lansley reforms but the Milburn reforms and some of the Ken Clarke reforms. One specific appears to be removing the obligation to tender services to the private sector, and it also appears there's an element of government power grab with more powers for ministers to direct NHS priorities.Sandpit said:
A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?IanB2 said:The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?
The latter suggests a learning point from the pandemic - but also suggests the almost-as-good-as-promised inquiry/review will be a long time in coming, since changes to NHS management and direction would be an obvious output from a retrospective on covid.
"It is quite striking how at the first whiff of gunpowder the policy of the last 30 years of localised commissioning and increased independence of providers vapourised. Since March the NHS has had a top down system more centralised than ever in its history. Decision making descends from Whitehall, and while some of these decisions may well have been mistaken or reckless, others have been more successful. Even Mr Corbyn must have raised a quizzical eyebrow at the requisitioning of the Private Hospitals, and effective abolition of private medical practice in the UK for the first time in history.
How long will this centralised system continue? Or will services be restored to local organisational control, with all the risks of fragmentation"
From:https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/05/17/28-weeks-later-the-coronavirus-aftermath-for-the-nhs-and-its-political-implications/
I have no particular axe to grind about NHS reforms, or at least since I left the Labour Party in the early noughties because of Milburn reforms and Iraq. Reforms come and go, and I always politely listen to the latest garbage from wet behind the ears management consultants. I have seen it all before, and let it wash over. A year or two later a new reform always scraps the one that preceeded it, and along come a fresh cohort of fresh faced MBAs who know nothing of health.
I got some things wrong in that header, particularly underestimating the second and third waves. This only makes the waiting lists longer though.
Those 40 hospitals need building now, but more importantly we need a plan for training. It isn't only schoolkids who have missed a year, we have trainee surgeons that haven’t operated for a year, and junior cardiologists who can manage CPAP but not unstable angina. There is a lot of burnout, and will be a lot of early retirements. Building a hospital will be easier than staffing it.0 -
It did cross my mind that his runs in Sri Lanka were fairly easy given the quality of the bowling attack, even although he was scoring half of England's runs, but this innings has shown that he is in the form of his life.TheScreamingEagles said:We need to talk about Joe Root's shocking conversion rate, he's never converted a 200 into a 300.
0 -
It wouldn't need to be retrospective as long as it only applied to future referendums.TheScreamingEagles said:
Retrospective legislation is the tool of the devil.Charles said:How about this as an idea: the UK government passes a referendum act (with retrospective effect) to say that there can be no second referendum on a constitutional matter within 25 years.
Sell it as a brexit measure (but it catches Scotland as well)
Determination of whether it is a constitutional matter left to the government (acting quasi-judicially) with a right of appeal to Supreme Court
Provision that it can only be set aside by a specific resolution in Parliament voted on by both houses
I suspect no one really gets upset except the SNP and may be a few EU obsessives.
How about if the next Labour government passed legislation saying all previous plebiscites are revoked unless they got over >75% of the electorate's support.
But it's not a good idea anyway. All referendums need their own legislation so that could just amend the Referendums (25-Year Restriction) Act to make an exception or override, rather in the same way that the FTPA was ignored to enable the 2019GE.2 -
Root & Pope both gone now. Pitch apparently breaking up a bit. Declare with 30-45 mins to go, let Anderson and Archer at tired Indian openers?
And a very good morning to one and all.2 -
Pitches in India tend to start placid, and regularly deteriorate far more during the course of a game than is the case here.Stocky said:Good morning.
I don`t follow cricket - can someone explain why England aren`t declaring at 450? Won`t they run out of time for the win?
Batting first gives you something like a 3/1 advantage. Bat long enough, and you secure the draw, and give the pitch time to wear enough to make batting much harder in the next innings. It’s the reliable way to win.
4 -
The SNP will remain the largest party in Scotland for as long as independence remains a popular option but they need a popular leader to get close to an overall majority. Salmond fell short in the first referendum and he played his cards with considerable skill. Without Nicola I think that the SNP will remain dominant but will be well short.malcolmg said:
Even when she is gone David , the SNP will still win comfortably. Question is whether she can last till after the election and plan an escape route or the whole house of cards falls in on her before that. May all come down to whether Andy Wightman has bollox as he will have the casting vote. The independent inquiry may also get her as it is very obvious she lied to parliament , having even admitted to the meeting she denied she had in parliament. There is also the £500K + ringfenced referendum fund that has been misplaced somewhere, suspected to have been used for the SNP bigwigs legal costs and defamation payouts.DavidL said:There was a poll just a couple of days ago and Nicola was something like +21 (net) and the SNP were +8. The trouble being caused by the battle with Salmond has threatened her position within the party but she remains dominant in Scottish politics and extremely popular. Her mother of the nation role throughout the pandemic has solidified that position and given her a profile so far ahead of her cabinet as to be out of sight.
For David's analysis and prediction to come true Sturgeon has to go. If she remains in charge of the SNP I really struggle to see the SNP not getting a majority (much though I would want to). Those that play close attention and are, in fairness, instinctively hostile look at what has been going on with really strange calls by Crown Office, by retrospective rule changes to catch Salmond, by Civil Servants behaving in a truly extraordinary fashion and conclude that there is something rotten in the State of Bute House, something deeply unhealthy and undemocratic, but it is delusional to think that this is having the sort of impact on Scottish opinion that it should have.
The only people capable of binging Sturgeon down are those in the SNP. I wish them luck.
It will be an avalanche once the dam breaks.0 -
I have to say that this is a very peculiar use of the word "tragedy".Jonathan said:
Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.Casino_Royale said:
Many of us were the same.ydoethur said:Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.
Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.
Mistake.
Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.
There will be a winning side and a losing side in any referendum (which will have to happen in due course). There will be exhilaration among the winners and disappointment among the losers. Scottish independence may happen, or it may not. That is democracy.
But, if Scottish independence happens, why is it a "tragedy" ? It is the right of any people to chose their own future.
Do you even understand what a "tragedy" is ?2 -
We are damn lucky British voters are never influenced by Russian trolls, and the Russians were damn lucky we voted that way off our own bat.Sandpit said:Russian bots moving on from disrupting US elections with misinformation, to trying to convince Spanish-speaking South America that Western vaccines are evil:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/technology/russia-covid-vaccine-disinformation.html0 -
I have never been concerned about Root's conversion rte. A 70 and a 60 is better than a 100 and a 0.TheScreamingEagles said:We need to talk about Joe Root's shocking conversion rate, he's never converted a 200 into a 300.
0 -
Last time in Chennai England got 477 and lost by an innings. You get your runs in the first innings here, as many as you possibly can. No declarations, just wear that pitch.OldKingCole said:Root & Pope both gone now. Pitch apparently breaking up a bit. Declare with 30-45 mins to go, let Anderson and Archer at tired Indian openers?
And a very good morning to one and all.0 -
Good postYBarddCwsc said:
I have to say that this is a very peculiar use of the word "tragedy".Jonathan said:
Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.Casino_Royale said:
Many of us were the same.ydoethur said:Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.
Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.
Mistake.
Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.
There will be a winning side and a losing side in any referendum (which will have to happen in due course). There will be exhilaration among the winners and disappointment among the losers. Scottish independence may happen, or it may not. That is democracy.
But, if Scottish independence happens, why is it a "tragedy" ? It is the right of any people to chose their own future.
Do you even understand what a "tragedy" is ?1 -
If I were a Republican, I might consider it, but if I were American I’d vote for the Democrat.rcs1000 said:Off topic, if I was American, I'd vote for Ben Sasse.
This was a remarkably irony blind comment from one of his Trump supporting state critics...
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/05/ben-sasse-2024-466424
“ The man is one of the most condescending, arrogant, narcissistic individuals I’ve ever had the unfortunate circumstance to deal with, to meet,” said Desautels, whose county party is holding an emergency meeting on Saturday to consider a resolution to censure Sasse. “He does not represent Republican values, as far as I’m concerned.”...0 -
Except the issue here isn't about the age of consent between two individuals who've reached sexual maturity; it's about the extent to which an individual can chose their gender identity and effectively opt-in to become a member of the opposite sex. And you forgot there are limits on the former too - there was an active debate on the age of consent in the 1970s and 1980s with the PIE, which was affiliated at the time with the more radical wing of the gay rights movement, arguing that the agent of consent should be lowered to ten. These things do need debating, however sensitive.TheScreamingEagles said:
A while back someone pointed out all the fears about trans people was very similar to the fears about gay people in the 80s and 90s.Nemtynakht said:
What disappoints me is that there seems to me to be an acceptable range of views. From the scientific man has xy chromosome and woman xx, natural as in seen in nature, to the sex / sexuality has a multitude of shades and differences and people should be able to identify and act accordingly.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.
Didn't we used to have matters of conscience. It's not as if the traditional side is saying that women should stay at home and work and men must be mechanics!! There is plenty of concern from for example battered wives concerned that a violent husband would have claimed to be a woman to track them down.
Lowering the age of consent for gay people from 21 to 18/16 would lead to serried ranks of gay men standing outside schools which is similar to the fears that men pretending to be women would be visiting women's changings room.
There are other examples.
In the case of transrights regarding self-identification they do potentially come into conflict with women's rights in refuges, sports and changing rooms, and their identity as women with unique experiences down to their sex and biology as a result. I'd say it's less of an issue the other way (women > men) where there are fewer of them and the social issues less pronounced, but don't forget the young man (ex woman) who recently took Tavistock to court, and won, on the issue gender treatment for minors.
I don't think rights issues can be explained away by referencing back to past equality battles and dismissing any criticism as bigoted; in fact, I'd say that's disingenuous and makes it less likely to build a more accepting and tolerant society.6 -
In fairness, it really does seem the analogy of bird spotting is appropriate, as they do look awfully similar. I'd be a good journalist and call them 'tank-like' and claim it was to avoid confusing the readers.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
People are allowed to think that others have made or will make a tragic mistake. People don't stop seeing Labour/Tories winning as a tragedy in action even though it is democracy in action and people can chose their own futures.YBarddCwsc said:
I have to say that this is a very peculiar use of the word "tragedy".Jonathan said:
Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.Casino_Royale said:
Many of us were the same.ydoethur said:Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.
Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.
Mistake.
Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.
There will be a winning side and a losing side in any referendum (which will have to happen in due course). There will be exhilaration among the winners and disappointment among the losers. Scottish independence may happen, or it may not. That is democracy.
But, if Scottish independence happens, why is it a "tragedy" ? It is the right of any people to chose their own future.
Do you even understand what a "tragedy" is ?0 -
He has because when you are in you need to cash in. There will always be some low scores because that is the nature of the game. This year, so far, he has cashed in big time. He's playing brilliantly.No_Offence_Alan said:
I have never been concerned about Root's conversion rte. A 70 and a 60 is better than a 100 and a 0.TheScreamingEagles said:We need to talk about Joe Root's shocking conversion rate, he's never converted a 200 into a 300.
0 -
@Dura_Ace will be along in a minute to tell us why that's wrong and give us all the next level of niche.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Yes; Brexit!YBarddCwsc said:
I have to say that this is a very peculiar use of the word "tragedy".Jonathan said:
Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.Casino_Royale said:
Many of us were the same.ydoethur said:Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.
In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.
This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).
It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.
How tragically mistaken I was.
Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.
Mistake.
Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.
There will be a winning side and a losing side in any referendum (which will have to happen in due course). There will be exhilaration among the winners and disappointment among the losers. Scottish independence may happen, or it may not. That is democracy.
But, if Scottish independence happens, why is it a "tragedy" ? It is the right of any people to chose their own future.
Do you even understand what a "tragedy" is ?0 -
Has to be minimum wage with board as a seperate item doesn't it ?YBarddCwsc said:
" ... received £100 a week “pocket money” in exchange for about 25 hours of childcare per week. "Scott_xP said:Man's face eaten by leopard...
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240
There really are no-one as mean as the British upper middle-classes, the Remain constituency par excellence .
Let the bastards pay a reasonable wage, & I am sure they will be able to find child-care.0 -
Armour is not really my subject. BMPs are easy to identify because they are usually on fire.Casino_Royale said:
@Dura_Ace will be along in a minute to tell us why that's wrong and give us all the next level of niche.TheScreamingEagles said:2 -
They are employing someone and evading all the responsibility of an employer (including the tax responsibilities).Pulpstar said:
Has to be minimum wage with board as a seperate item doesn't it ?YBarddCwsc said:
" ... received £100 a week “pocket money” in exchange for about 25 hours of childcare per week. "Scott_xP said:Man's face eaten by leopard...
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240
There really are no-one as mean as the British upper middle-classes, the Remain constituency par excellence .
Let the bastards pay a reasonable wage, & I am sure they will be able to find child-care.0 -
Inheriting a difficult problem with few good options doesn't make choosing poor ones and acting unfairly, if that is what happened, ok.YBarddCwsc said:
My sympathies here lie with Sturgeon. She inherited a difficult problem, and she largely did what I think I would have done in the same circumstances.
If you want a sexual harassment case that led to the resignation of a First Minister, see Carwyn Jones.
As always, Welsh Labour provide a text-book case in how NOT to handle it.
It's all too murky that I doubt enough people will remain interested enough for any conclusion to really cut through though.
I do find it bizarre that having been so very disciplined, eerily so, the SNP have had public spats over trans issues.0 -
You disappoint me.Dura_Ace said:
Armour is not really my subject. BMPs are easy to identify because they are usually on fire.Casino_Royale said:
@Dura_Ace will be along in a minute to tell us why that's wrong and give us all the next level of niche.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Three issues are getting confused here. (1) Who can make the rules and (2) Who can change the rules and (3) Has the government/Home Office messed up.Scott_xP said:Man's face eaten by leopard...
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357967791291252737
Brexit creates the opportunity for a level playing field in migration. An Australia, Lithuanian, French and Tanzanian person should all be in the same position, replacing the system whereby 400,000,000 people having absolute rights made life difficult/impossible for the rest who went to the back of the queue.
This is good.
Implementation may of course be rubbish - after all this is the old Home Office.
Because of Brexit it can be changed and your vote and voice counts.
Don't confuse the questions. Many Remainers don't seem to understand the matter, and are full of whataboutery over individual issues which the UK has control over. dealing with it is called politics. Ask a Belgian who he should vote for to get the vaccine programme sorted.
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