A fractured SNP will struggle to campaign at full-throttle – politicalbetting.com

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A fractured SNP will struggle to campaign at full-throttle – politicalbetting.com

If you lose your head, it’s all over. Not quite what one Scot (who was at the time an Egyptian-born Spaniard), said to another (though that one was American), but it might as well have been. Wise words to an immortal; wiser still to a politician – and ones that Scottish nationalists would do well to reflect on.

Read the full story here

billoshoes

First?

billoshoes

and thinking of snipping in half my party membership card over the direction they are going

Sandpit

Good piece David. The big unknown in all of this, is when is the tipping point that brings the story out into the mainstream? Until now it’s been brewing away, but mostly ignored by the ‘Westminster’ media.

There’s a reasonable argument to be made that the sacking of Cherry is that point, and we might be hearing a lot more this week as the Salmond enquiry unfolds.

ydoethur

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

ydoethur

One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?

Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.

But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.

Sandpit

ydoethur said:

One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?

Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.

But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.

There were some interesting questions asked on here yesterday of the Crown Office, who seem to have somewhat dropped their required impartiality, not to the detriment of the incumbent government.

Who has the power to abolish or force reform on such an organisation, if the Scottish government won’t?

Maybe there’s a Scottish QC with a grievance, who might want to peruse this?

ydoethur

Sandpit said:

ydoethur said:

One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?

Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.

But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.

There were some interesting questions asked on here yesterday of the Crown Office, who seem to have somewhat dropped their required impartiality, not to the detriment of the incumbent government.

Who has the power to abolish or force reform on such an organisation, if the Scottish government won’t?

Maybe there’s a Scottish QC with a grievance, who might want to peruse this?

Well, I would have thought the UK Parliament can do so simply by amending the relevant act, in this case the Scotland Act. After all, powers are granted to the devolved administration by Westminster and can therefore presumably be removed.

But I don’t know.

And Stokes, you idiot. Why did you throw it away like that?

Sandpit

ydoethur said:

Sandpit said:

ydoethur said:

One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?

Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.

But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.

There were some interesting questions asked on here yesterday of the Crown Office, who seem to have somewhat dropped their required impartiality, not to the detriment of the incumbent government.

Who has the power to abolish or force reform on such an organisation, if the Scottish government won’t?

Maybe there’s a Scottish QC with a grievance, who might want to peruse this?

Well, I would have thought the UK Parliament can do so simply by amending the relevant act, in this case the Scotland Act. After all, powers are granted to the devolved administration by Westminster and can therefore presumably be removed.

But I don’t know.

And Stokes, you idiot. Why did you throw it away like that?

Yes, agreed. The more pertinent questions are I guess the political ones. What you’d want to do, is to set monitorable goals for an organisation, such as might be done for a problematic county council, where it has a chance to sort itself out before ultimate sanctions are applied.

There is of course the more general issue of politics in the quangocracy, which New Labour pushed hard, the SNP appear to have replaced one with another over time, and a certain government advisor was determined to replace in England.

And yes, Stokes was an idiot for that. Could have been a century there.

MarqueeMark

ydoethur said:

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

Must be tough being a Scottish voter. Pissed off at being on the wrong end of UK democratic decisions. But in a devolved Scotland, getting a shit-show of incompetence, stupidity and nepotism, now with the added bonus of a legal system that is swiftly being brought deeply into disrepute.

Bullying and belligerence are the stock in trade of the SNP's troops, to mask and deflect from their lack of answers and ability across the range of government - as we will no doubt see on this thread. Many tempted by independence will still have grave concerns that those who would take them there have no answers to the questions that lost them the vote in 2014 - on jobs, on the economy, on the currency, on the role of Scotland in an EU any would be hard-pressed to hold out as a beacon of hope.

The only thing that independence answers is "not this". But foor those that would wish them well in their split from the UK, the alternative on the evidence to date looks like it could be a change to the very tawdry.

A sorry state of affairs.

Casino_Royale

Excellent article. The lead article in The Spectator this week also argues that the SNP isn't like a "normal" political party - where different politicians can offer slightly different takes on policies and the interpretation of its philosophy - but operates more like a bloc vote and it's written into its rulebook; virtually no-one ever rebels at either Westminster or Holyrood.

Nevertheless, I do expect them to win a clear majority in May at Holyrood. The Conservatives are too unpopular - and may go backwards in fishing communities - and Labour too listless (and leaderless) to make a dent. The best I could see is more SNP votes switching to the Greens, but they are also pro-independence.

Final thought: in the 2010GE Labour did well in Scotland because there was a Scottish PM and Scottish Chancellor in contention for the UK.

As always, identity is critical. Voters will forgive (or ignore) an awful lot else.

Casino_Royale

ydoethur said:

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

Many of us were the same.

Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.

Mistake.

squareroot2

Sandpit said:

ydoethur said:

Sandpit said:

ydoethur said:

One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?

Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.

But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.

There were some interesting questions asked on here yesterday of the Crown Office, who seem to have somewhat dropped their required impartiality, not to the detriment of the incumbent government.

Who has the power to abolish or force reform on such an organisation, if the Scottish government won’t?

Maybe there’s a Scottish QC with a grievance, who might want to peruse this?

Well, I would have thought the UK Parliament can do so simply by amending the relevant act, in this case the Scotland Act. After all, powers are granted to the devolved administration by Westminster and can therefore presumably be removed.

But I don’t know.

And Stokes, you idiot. Why did you throw it away like that?

Yes, agreed. The more pertinent questions are I guess the political ones. What you’d want to do, is to set monitorable goals for an organisation, such as might be done for a problematic county council, where it has a chance to sort itself out before ultimate sanctions are applied.

There is of course the more general issue of politics in the quangocracy, which New Labour pushed hard, the SNP appear to have replaced one with another over time, and a certain government advisor was determined to replace in England.

And yes, Stokes was an idiot for that. Could have been a century there.

That is Stokes for you. He is a genius who gets out sometimes when he ought not to. Love the genius, accept the occasional flaw. Pope looks accomplished...

squareroot2

On threads. One can only pray that the whole deck of cards comes crashing down on the SNP. Watch, wait enjoy what is to come ....

MattW

About 10th.

Thanks for the piece, David.

A couple of nice quotes:

Labour and the Lib Dems should trad very carefully

err. yep.

I prefer Yogi: It ain't over until..., since if I mention fat ladies someone will be perpetually offended.

or perhaps Pooh:

Before beginning a Hunt, it is wise to ask someone what you are looking for before you begin looking for it.

IanB2

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

ydoethur

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

Perhaps somebody has been looking at the financial situation and is concerned it will reorganise itself via the bankruptcy of PCTs if they don’t?

Sandpit

Russian bots moving on from disrupting US elections with misinformation, to trying to convince Spanish-speaking South America that Western vaccines are evil:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/technology/russia-covid-vaccine-disinformation.html

Sandpit

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

rottenborough

Interesting piece, thanks @david_herdson

I've been struggling to keep up with the Cherry story so this helps.

IanB2

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

They appear to know what the proposed option is going to be, although much of the detail is still to be announced. Hunt on R4 just now described it as undoing not only the Lansley reforms but the Milburn reforms and some of the Ken Clarke reforms. One specific appears to be removing the obligation to tender services to the private sector, and it also appears there's an element of government power grab with more powers for ministers to direct NHS priorities.

The latter suggests a learning point from the pandemic - but also suggests the almost-as-good-as-promised inquiry/review will be a long time in coming, since changes to NHS management and direction would be an obvious output from a retrospective on covid.

rottenborough

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).

ydoethur

Highest score by a batsman played in their centennial test.

What a season Joe Root is having.

ydoethur

rottenborough said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).

I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.

Scott_xP

https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1357861105545183235

MattW

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).

I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.

I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.

ydoethur

MattW said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).

I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.

I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.

With an election three years away?

That’s as optimistic as my hopes for a date with Margot Robbie.

Jonathan

ydoethur said:

MattW said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).

I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.

I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.

With an election three years away?

That’s as optimistic as my hopes for a date with Margot Robbie.

Margot is disappointing, you’re not missing much.

ydoethur

Now THAT is how you get to the first ever double hundred by a player in their hundredth test.

What a shot, what an innings, what a riposte to all his critics.

Which have, of course, never included me, how dare you say such a thing and rake up all those old posts which were actually written by my tomcat.

TheScreamingEagles

Sheffield's Joe Root like Sheffield lads is awesome.

TheScreamingEagles

On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.

Jonathan

Casino_Royale said:

ydoethur said:

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

Many of us were the same.

Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.

Mistake.

Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.

Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.

ThomasNashe

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1357861105545183235

Yeah, that so would have worked.

Jonathan

ThomasNashe said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1357861105545183235

Yeah, that so would have worked.

Clearly no10 view independence as a near certainty and are taking advantage.

MattW

ydoethur said:

MattW said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).

I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.

I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.

With an election three years away?

That’s as optimistic as my hopes for a date with Margot Robbie.

Closer to four years .

ydoethur

MattW said:

Listeninf

ydoethur said:

MattW said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).

I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.

I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.

With an election three years away?

That’s as optimistic as my hopes for a date with Margot Robbie.

Closer to four years .

At this moment, it’s scheduled for May 2024.

There are moves to change that, but formidable practical difficulties in the way.

And even if there weren’t, I suspect the government would prefer a spring election to another autumn or winter one.

malcolmg

ydoethur said:

One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?

Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.

But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.

There would be riots if that happened

rottenborough

On NI: interesting short piece by Bogdanor.

"a Unionist government negotiated a nationalist solution."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/05/solution-irish-border-problem/

rottenborough

ThomasNashe said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1357861105545183235

Yeah, that so would have worked.

Especially if they hadn't kept it a secret, as planned.

Alistair

I am very confused what @david_herdson means by

Into that already-charged atmosphere, the party has not only embraced the political grenade of full trans rights advocacy but did so via dodgy procedural dealing

Reform of the GRA was an item in the SNP manifesto. I fail to understand what was dodgy about this?

Stocky

Good morning.

I don`t follow cricket - can someone explain why England aren`t declaring at 450? Won`t they run out of time for the win?

rcs1000

Stocky said:

Good morning.

I don`t follow cricket - can someone explain why England aren`t declaring at 450? Won`t they run out of time for the win?

Ultimately, they have to bowl India out twice. Declaring now doesn't help with that. Better to get 600 runs on the board.

rcs1000

Off topic, if I was American, I'd vote for Been Sasse.

Scott_xP

Man's face eaten by leopard...

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357967791291252737

Dura_Ace

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1357861105545183235

Fucking LOL.

Let's hope he's upgraded his car since the last time he was in the public eye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBilGkxGFF8

Sandpit

rcs1000 said:

Stocky said:

Good morning.

I don`t follow cricket - can someone explain why England aren`t declaring at 450? Won`t they run out of time for the win?

Ultimately, they have to bowl India out twice. Declaring now doesn't help with that. Better to get 600 runs on the board.

Yep. Half an hour before the end of the second day, with 600 on the board and preferably someone running interference on the umpire’s light meter.

It doesn’t work as well as it used to, now they play for a fixed 90 overs a day, instead of until sunset.

malcolmg

Jonathan said:

Casino_Royale said:

ydoethur said:

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

Many of us were the same.

Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.

Mistake.

Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.

Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.

The tragedy will be if Tories or Labour ever get back in. It is the nutters from Labour who have caused half the bother, aided and abetted by the Ceaușescu's

malcolmg

ydoethur said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

Perhaps somebody has been looking at the financial situation and is concerned it will reorganise itself via the bankruptcy of PCTs if they don’t?

Tories want it ready to sell off to their chums and the Yanks. Big big money to be made for them.

Pulpstar

I think you want to bat longer first knock in India than you do in say England, it's not an overcast evening at Trent bridge.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/sommervilletv/status/1357975514225528834

Nemtynakht

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.

What disappoints me is that there seems to me to be an acceptable range of views. From the scientific man has xy chromosome and woman xx, natural as in seen in nature, to the sex / sexuality has a multitude of shades and differences and people should be able to identify and act accordingly.

Didn't we used to have matters of conscience. It's not as if the traditional side is saying that women should stay at home and work and men must be mechanics!! There is plenty of concern from for example battered wives concerned that a violent husband would have claimed to be a woman to track them down.

malcolmg

MarqueeMark said:

ydoethur said:

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

Must be tough being a Scottish voter. Pissed off at being on the wrong end of UK democratic decisions. But in a devolved Scotland, getting a shit-show of incompetence, stupidity and nepotism, now with the added bonus of a legal system that is swiftly being brought deeply into disrepute.

Bullying and belligerence are the stock in trade of the SNP's troops, to mask and deflect from their lack of answers and ability across the range of government - as we will no doubt see on this thread. Many tempted by independence will still have grave concerns that those who would take them there have no answers to the questions that lost them the vote in 2014 - on jobs, on the economy, on the currency, on the role of Scotland in an EU any would be hard-pressed to hold out as a beacon of hope.

The only thing that independence answers is "not this". But foor those that would wish them well in their split from the UK, the alternative on the evidence to date looks like it could be a change to the very tawdry.

A sorry state of affairs.

Cannot be worse than being treated like crap by a fat clown in Westminster. Mine as well be stiffed by Scottish crooks, no users , etc

TheScreamingEagles

Pulpstar said:

I think you want to bat longer first knock in India than you do in say England, it's not an overcast evening at Trent bridge.

Yup, from the last England tour of India.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2016-17-1030195/india-vs-england-5th-test-1034817/full-scorecard

TheScreamingEagles

So do we believe the assertion of Fox News that cancelling Lou Dobbs has nothing to do with the $2.7 billion defamation lawsuit by Smartmatic?

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/feb/05/fox-news-lou-dobbs-tonight-canceled

MattW

ydoethur said:

MattW said:

Listeninf

ydoethur said:

MattW said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).

I wonder whether Foxy will be relived to see them go, or crying with frustration at the thought of yet more upheaval at a time when all medical staff are already on their knees and above all need calm and quiet.

I hope that any reform will be taken in relatively slow mode.

With an election three years away?

That’s as optimistic as my hopes for a date with Margot Robbie.

Closer to four years .

At this moment, it’s scheduled for May 2024.

There are moves to change that, but formidable practical difficulties in the way.

And even if there weren’t, I suspect the government would prefer a spring election to another autumn or winter one.

Nearly 4 years is a long time in politics.

Scott_xP

TheScreamingEagles said:

So do we believe the assertion of Fox News that cancelling Lou Dobbs has nothing to do with the $2.7 billion defamation lawsuit by Smartmatic?

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/feb/05/fox-news-lou-dobbs-tonight-canceled

Coincidence...

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1357889582059188225

https://twitter.com/alexburnsNYT/status/1357871231400296448

Charles

How about this as an idea: the UK government passes a referendum act (with retrospective effect) to say that there can be no second referendum on a constitutional matter within 25 years.

Sell it as a brexit measure (but it catches Scotland as well)

Determination of whether it is a constitutional matter left to the government (acting quasi-judicially) with a right of appeal to Supreme Court

Provision that it can only be set aside by a specific resolution in Parliament voted on by both houses

I suspect no one really gets upset except the SNP and may be a few EU obsessives.

malcolmg

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.

Yes they want to trash women's rights just to pander to a miniscule group who think their rights are the only ones that count and all others rights should be trashed to fit their views, even though they already have the same rights.

YBarddCwsc

My sympathies here lie with Sturgeon. She inherited a difficult problem, and she largely did what I think I would have done in the same circumstances.

If you want a sexual harassment case that led to the resignation of a First Minister, see Carwyn Jones.

As always, Welsh Labour provide a text-book case in how NOT to handle it.

Phil

Nemtynakht said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.

What disappoints me is that there seems to me to be an acceptable range of views. From the scientific man has xy chromosome and woman xx, natural as in seen in nature, to the sex / sexuality has a multitude of shades and differences and people should be able to identify and act accordingly.

Didn't we used to have matters of conscience. It's not as if the traditional side is saying that women should stay at home and work and men must be mechanics!! There is plenty of concern from for example battered wives concerned that a violent husband would have claimed to be a woman to track them down.

A couple of points to add to the above. Firstly, that "scientific" approach is what you where (probably) taught at GCSE science level but, as all such teaching at that level must, it omits a lot of nuance and detail. There’s an individual out in the world right now with 99% XY chromosomal cells who has given birth twice! (There’s a whole academic paper saying not much more than "no: really, we checked!") Surely she is a woman? Right? That’s just one (admittedly rare) example: there are many others that are far more common. What about female presenting intersex people? Some intersex are female in every way you might expect, except they don’t have a womb / ovaries so they can’t gestate & they have XY chromosomes, others might have almost any mix of personal & physical gender presentation.

The list of people who don’t fit into "XX is female, XY is male" is long & the anti-trans campaigners are quite happy to throw all of them under the proverbial bus in order to get what they want.

Secondly, I agree entirely that if this could be a "matter of conscience" that was purely personal then, like religious differences, we could all agree to get along. But the goals of "gender critical feminism" is in direct conflict with those of trans people (GC feminists tend to not care about transmen, seeing them mostly as confused lesbians. They reserve their ire for trans women) - GC feminists regard the entry of trans women into female spaces as something to be resisted at all costs.

This is what has poisoned the discourse - you have a committed, campaigning group who’s goals are in direct conflict with the desire of trans people to be able to live their lives as their desired gender. I don’t think there is a solution possible, except one side or the other "winning".

malcolmg

Charles said:

How about this as an idea: the UK government passes a referendum act (with retrospective effect) to say that there can be no second referendum on a constitutional matter within 25 years.

Sell it as a brexit measure (but it catches Scotland as well)

Determination of whether it is a constitutional matter left to the government (acting quasi-judicially) with a right of appeal to Supreme Court

Provision that it can only be set aside by a specific resolution in Parliament voted on by both houses

I suspect no one really gets upset except the SNP and may be a few EU obsessives.

Who would have thought a toff lickspittle would have come up with such a colonial viewpoint. The views of more than 50% of Scottish people don't matter.

DavidL

There was a poll just a couple of days ago and Nicola was something like +21 (net) and the SNP were +8. The trouble being caused by the battle with Salmond has threatened her position within the party but she remains dominant in Scottish politics and extremely popular. Her mother of the nation role throughout the pandemic has solidified that position and given her a profile so far ahead of her cabinet as to be out of sight.

For David's analysis and prediction to come true Sturgeon has to go. If she remains in charge of the SNP I really struggle to see the SNP not getting a majority (much though I would want to). Those that play close attention and are, in fairness, instinctively hostile look at what has been going on with really strange calls by Crown Office, by retrospective rule changes to catch Salmond, by Civil Servants behaving in a truly extraordinary fashion and conclude that there is something rotten in the State of Bute House, something deeply unhealthy and undemocratic, but it is delusional to think that this is having the sort of impact on Scottish opinion that it should have.

The only people capable of binging Sturgeon down are those in the SNP. I wish them luck.

TheScreamingEagles

We need to talk about Joe Root's shocking conversion rate, he's never converted a 200 into a 300.

DecrepiterJohnL

Sandpit said:

Russian bots moving on from disrupting US elections with misinformation, to trying to convince Spanish-speaking South America that Western vaccines are evil:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/technology/russia-covid-vaccine-disinformation.html

We are damn lucky Russian troll farms did not influence British voters; it is just coincidence the results came out the same way.

MaxPB

Charles said:

How about this as an idea: the UK government passes a referendum act (with retrospective effect) to say that there can be no second referendum on a constitutional matter within 25 years.

Sell it as a brexit measure (but it catches Scotland as well)

Determination of whether it is a constitutional matter left to the government (acting quasi-judicially) with a right of appeal to Supreme Court

Provision that it can only be set aside by a specific resolution in Parliament voted on by both houses

I suspect no one really gets upset except the SNP and may be a few EU obsessives.

Couldn't a future Lab/SNP coalition repeal it?

Foxy

IanB2 said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

They appear to know what the proposed option is going to be, although much of the detail is still to be announced. Hunt on R4 just now described it as undoing not only the Lansley reforms but the Milburn reforms and some of the Ken Clarke reforms. One specific appears to be removing the obligation to tender services to the private sector, and it also appears there's an element of government power grab with more powers for ministers to direct NHS priorities.

The latter suggests a learning point from the pandemic - but also suggests the almost-as-good-as-promised inquiry/review will be a long time in coming, since changes to NHS management and direction would be an obvious output from a retrospective on covid.

I did point this out in my header last May, that centralised "Command and Control" was a major step change in the NHS:

"It is quite striking how at the first whiff of gunpowder the policy of the last 30 years of localised commissioning and increased independence of providers vapourised. Since March the NHS has had a top down system more centralised than ever in its history. Decision making descends from Whitehall, and while some of these decisions may well have been mistaken or reckless, others have been more successful. Even Mr Corbyn must have raised a quizzical eyebrow at the requisitioning of the Private Hospitals, and effective abolition of private medical practice in the UK for the first time in history.

How long will this centralised system continue? Or will services be restored to local organisational control, with all the risks of fragmentation"

From:https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/05/17/28-weeks-later-the-coronavirus-aftermath-for-the-nhs-and-its-political-implications/

I have no particular axe to grind about NHS reforms, or at least since I left the Labour Party in the early noughties because of Milburn reforms and Iraq. Reforms come and go, and I always politely listen to the latest garbage from wet behind the ears management consultants. I have seen it all before, and let it wash over. A year or two later a new reform always scraps the one that preceeded it, and along come a fresh cohort of fresh faced MBAs who know nothing of health.

I got some things wrong in that header, particularly underestimating the second and third waves. This only makes the waiting lists longer though.

Those 40 hospitals need building now, but more importantly we need a plan for training. It isn't only schoolkids who have missed a year, we have trainee surgeons that haven’t operated for a year, and junior cardiologists who can manage CPAP but not unstable angina. There is a lot of burnout, and will be a lot of early retirements. Building a hospital will be easier than staffing it.

TheScreamingEagles

Charles said:

How about this as an idea: the UK government passes a referendum act (with retrospective effect) to say that there can be no second referendum on a constitutional matter within 25 years.

Sell it as a brexit measure (but it catches Scotland as well)

Determination of whether it is a constitutional matter left to the government (acting quasi-judicially) with a right of appeal to Supreme Court

Provision that it can only be set aside by a specific resolution in Parliament voted on by both houses

I suspect no one really gets upset except the SNP and may be a few EU obsessives.

Retrospective legislation is the tool of the devil.

How about if the next Labour government passed legislation saying all previous plebiscites are revoked unless they got over >75% of the electorate's support.

DecrepiterJohnL

rottenborough said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

Dunno. But certainly sounds like the final burial of Lansley's utter mess of reform that nobody but himself ever understood (and that includes Cameron who waved it through).

Sounds like Labour's programme (which older readers will remember was pinched by Boris in ge2019) filtered through Dominic Cummings.

DavidL

squareroot2 said:

Sandpit said:

ydoethur said:

Sandpit said:

ydoethur said:

One thought does occur to me though. If it is found the Scottish Executive have been improperly harassing their political opponents through the courts, might Johnson use that as an excuse to suspend it?

Cummings probably would have done, given his lack of respect for parliamentary democracy and lack of political sense. Not sure whether Johnson’s new team are quite so aggressive.

But the pretext might come in handy if they start making noises about Sindyref that he doesn’t relish.

There were some interesting questions asked on here yesterday of the Crown Office, who seem to have somewhat dropped their required impartiality, not to the detriment of the incumbent government.

Who has the power to abolish or force reform on such an organisation, if the Scottish government won’t?

Maybe there’s a Scottish QC with a grievance, who might want to peruse this?

Well, I would have thought the UK Parliament can do so simply by amending the relevant act, in this case the Scotland Act. After all, powers are granted to the devolved administration by Westminster and can therefore presumably be removed.

But I don’t know.

And Stokes, you idiot. Why did you throw it away like that?

Yes, agreed. The more pertinent questions are I guess the political ones. What you’d want to do, is to set monitorable goals for an organisation, such as might be done for a problematic county council, where it has a chance to sort itself out before ultimate sanctions are applied.

There is of course the more general issue of politics in the quangocracy, which New Labour pushed hard, the SNP appear to have replaced one with another over time, and a certain government advisor was determined to replace in England.

And yes, Stokes was an idiot for that. Could have been a century there.

That is Stokes for you. He is a genius who gets out sometimes when he ought not to. Love the genius, accept the occasional flaw. Pope looks accomplished...

I was rewatching the greatest test innings on Sky the other night where they were replaying his heroics at Headingly. Joe Root was one of those commenting and said that he had been sitting beside Josh Buttler who, after one particular reverse sweep into the Western Terraces called him a freak. As Joe pointed out when Buttler is describing your shot ability as freakish you are something special indeed.

malcolmg

DavidL said:

There was a poll just a couple of days ago and Nicola was something like +21 (net) and the SNP were +8. The trouble being caused by the battle with Salmond has threatened her position within the party but she remains dominant in Scottish politics and extremely popular. Her mother of the nation role throughout the pandemic has solidified that position and given her a profile so far ahead of her cabinet as to be out of sight.

For David's analysis and prediction to come true Sturgeon has to go. If she remains in charge of the SNP I really struggle to see the SNP not getting a majority (much though I would want to). Those that play close attention and are, in fairness, instinctively hostile look at what has been going on with really strange calls by Crown Office, by retrospective rule changes to catch Salmond, by Civil Servants behaving in a truly extraordinary fashion and conclude that there is something rotten in the State of Bute House, something deeply unhealthy and undemocratic, but it is delusional to think that this is having the sort of impact on Scottish opinion that it should have.

The only people capable of binging Sturgeon down are those in the SNP. I wish them luck.

Even when she is gone David , the SNP will still win comfortably. Question is whether she can last till after the election and plan an escape route or the whole house of cards falls in on her before that. May all come down to whether Andy Wightman has bollox as he will have the casting vote. The independent inquiry may also get her as it is very obvious she lied to parliament , having even admitted to the meeting she denied she had in parliament. There is also the £500K + ringfenced referendum fund that has been misplaced somewhere, suspected to have been used for the SNP bigwigs legal costs and defamation payouts.
It will be an avalanche once the dam breaks.

Charles

Scott_xP said:

Man's face eaten by leopard...

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357967791291252737

Government has said it will consider bilateral arrangements. But Peter Foster’s judgement is the EU isn’t interested.

Casino_Royale

Jonathan said:

Casino_Royale said:

ydoethur said:

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

Many of us were the same.

Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.

Mistake.

Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.

Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.

I think the root cause of this is not respecting the Scottish identity enough and arguing how Scotland's interests can best be delivered through a wider British union, where they have strong influence, in the 21st Century.

It's been building through peaks and troughs since the 1960s.

TheScreamingEagles

Nemtynakht said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.

What disappoints me is that there seems to me to be an acceptable range of views. From the scientific man has xy chromosome and woman xx, natural as in seen in nature, to the sex / sexuality has a multitude of shades and differences and people should be able to identify and act accordingly.

Didn't we used to have matters of conscience. It's not as if the traditional side is saying that women should stay at home and work and men must be mechanics!! There is plenty of concern from for example battered wives concerned that a violent husband would have claimed to be a woman to track them down.

A while back someone pointed out all the fears about trans people was very similar to the fears about gay people in the 80s and 90s.

Lowering the age of consent for gay people from 21 to 18/16 would lead to serried ranks of gay men standing outside schools which is similar to the fears that men pretending to be women would be visiting women's changings room.

There are other examples.

Pulpstar

TheScreamingEagles said:

We need to talk about Joe Root's shocking conversion rate, he's never converted a 200 into a 300.

Cook gave it the kiss of death talking about it in the studio

Casino_Royale

Charles said:

Scott_xP said:

Man's face eaten by leopard...

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357967791291252737

Government has said it will consider bilateral arrangements. But Peter Foster’s judgement is the EU isn’t interested.

Peter Foster has decided to become the lovechild of Faisal Islam. They are two peas in a pod.

I follow Tony Connelly for objective analysis.

YBarddCwsc

Scott_xP said:

Man's face eaten by leopard...

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240

" ... received £100 a week “pocket money” in exchange for about 25 hours of childcare per week. "

There really are no-one as mean as the British upper middle-classes, the Remain constituency par excellence .

Let the bastards pay a reasonable wage, & I am sure they will be able to find child-care.

malcolmg

Foxy said:

IanB2 said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

The big story today is the announced wide-ranging NHS review. Scrapping some of the mistakes made in the past looks like it might be sensible, but coming up something this big and throwing lots of balls in the air seems remarkably bizarre and inappropriate timing?

A genuine, all-options-open review of healthcare provision and delivery, or a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the unsinkable NHS Titanic?

They appear to know what the proposed option is going to be, although much of the detail is still to be announced. Hunt on R4 just now described it as undoing not only the Lansley reforms but the Milburn reforms and some of the Ken Clarke reforms. One specific appears to be removing the obligation to tender services to the private sector, and it also appears there's an element of government power grab with more powers for ministers to direct NHS priorities.

The latter suggests a learning point from the pandemic - but also suggests the almost-as-good-as-promised inquiry/review will be a long time in coming, since changes to NHS management and direction would be an obvious output from a retrospective on covid.

I did point this out in my header last May, that centralised "Command and Control" was a major step change in the NHS:

"It is quite striking how at the first whiff of gunpowder the policy of the last 30 years of localised commissioning and increased independence of providers vapourised. Since March the NHS has had a top down system more centralised than ever in its history. Decision making descends from Whitehall, and while some of these decisions may well have been mistaken or reckless, others have been more successful. Even Mr Corbyn must have raised a quizzical eyebrow at the requisitioning of the Private Hospitals, and effective abolition of private medical practice in the UK for the first time in history.

How long will this centralised system continue? Or will services be restored to local organisational control, with all the risks of fragmentation"

From:https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/05/17/28-weeks-later-the-coronavirus-aftermath-for-the-nhs-and-its-political-implications/

I have no particular axe to grind about NHS reforms, or at least since I left the Labour Party in the early noughties because of Milburn reforms and Iraq. Reforms come and go, and I always politely listen to the latest garbage from wet behind the ears management consultants. I have seen it all before, and let it wash over. A year or two later a new reform always scraps the one that preceeded it, and along come a fresh cohort of fresh faced MBAs who know nothing of health.

I got some things wrong in that header, particularly underestimating the second and third waves. This only makes the waiting lists longer though.

Those 40 hospitals need building now, but more importantly we need a plan for training. It isn't only schoolkids who have missed a year, we have trainee surgeons that haven’t operated for a year, and junior cardiologists who can manage CPAP but not unstable angina. There is a lot of burnout, and will be a lot of early retirements. Building a hospital will be easier than staffing it.

The 40 hospitals was never going to happen, similar to the message on that bus, tories just lie.

DavidL

TheScreamingEagles said:

We need to talk about Joe Root's shocking conversion rate, he's never converted a 200 into a 300.

It did cross my mind that his runs in Sri Lanka were fairly easy given the quality of the bowling attack, even although he was scoring half of England's runs, but this innings has shown that he is in the form of his life.

david_herdson

TheScreamingEagles said:

Charles said:

How about this as an idea: the UK government passes a referendum act (with retrospective effect) to say that there can be no second referendum on a constitutional matter within 25 years.

Sell it as a brexit measure (but it catches Scotland as well)

Determination of whether it is a constitutional matter left to the government (acting quasi-judicially) with a right of appeal to Supreme Court

Provision that it can only be set aside by a specific resolution in Parliament voted on by both houses

I suspect no one really gets upset except the SNP and may be a few EU obsessives.

Retrospective legislation is the tool of the devil.

How about if the next Labour government passed legislation saying all previous plebiscites are revoked unless they got over >75% of the electorate's support.

It wouldn't need to be retrospective as long as it only applied to future referendums.

But it's not a good idea anyway. All referendums need their own legislation so that could just amend the Referendums (25-Year Restriction) Act to make an exception or override, rather in the same way that the FTPA was ignored to enable the 2019GE.

OldKingCole

Root & Pope both gone now. Pitch apparently breaking up a bit. Declare with 30-45 mins to go, let Anderson and Archer at tired Indian openers?

And a very good morning to one and all.

Nigelb

Stocky said:

Good morning.

I don`t follow cricket - can someone explain why England aren`t declaring at 450? Won`t they run out of time for the win?

Pitches in India tend to start placid, and regularly deteriorate far more during the course of a game than is the case here.
Batting first gives you something like a 3/1 advantage. Bat long enough, and you secure the draw, and give the pitch time to wear enough to make batting much harder in the next innings. It’s the reliable way to win.

DavidL

malcolmg said:

DavidL said:

There was a poll just a couple of days ago and Nicola was something like +21 (net) and the SNP were +8. The trouble being caused by the battle with Salmond has threatened her position within the party but she remains dominant in Scottish politics and extremely popular. Her mother of the nation role throughout the pandemic has solidified that position and given her a profile so far ahead of her cabinet as to be out of sight.

For David's analysis and prediction to come true Sturgeon has to go. If she remains in charge of the SNP I really struggle to see the SNP not getting a majority (much though I would want to). Those that play close attention and are, in fairness, instinctively hostile look at what has been going on with really strange calls by Crown Office, by retrospective rule changes to catch Salmond, by Civil Servants behaving in a truly extraordinary fashion and conclude that there is something rotten in the State of Bute House, something deeply unhealthy and undemocratic, but it is delusional to think that this is having the sort of impact on Scottish opinion that it should have.

The only people capable of binging Sturgeon down are those in the SNP. I wish them luck.

Even when she is gone David , the SNP will still win comfortably. Question is whether she can last till after the election and plan an escape route or the whole house of cards falls in on her before that. May all come down to whether Andy Wightman has bollox as he will have the casting vote. The independent inquiry may also get her as it is very obvious she lied to parliament , having even admitted to the meeting she denied she had in parliament. There is also the £500K + ringfenced referendum fund that has been misplaced somewhere, suspected to have been used for the SNP bigwigs legal costs and defamation payouts.
It will be an avalanche once the dam breaks.

The SNP will remain the largest party in Scotland for as long as independence remains a popular option but they need a popular leader to get close to an overall majority. Salmond fell short in the first referendum and he played his cards with considerable skill. Without Nicola I think that the SNP will remain dominant but will be well short.

YBarddCwsc

Jonathan said:

Casino_Royale said:

ydoethur said:

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

Many of us were the same.

Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.

Mistake.

Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.

Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.

I have to say that this is a very peculiar use of the word "tragedy".

There will be a winning side and a losing side in any referendum (which will have to happen in due course). There will be exhilaration among the winners and disappointment among the losers. Scottish independence may happen, or it may not. That is democracy.

But, if Scottish independence happens, why is it a "tragedy" ? It is the right of any people to chose their own future.

Do you even understand what a "tragedy" is ?

DecrepiterJohnL

Sandpit said:

Russian bots moving on from disrupting US elections with misinformation, to trying to convince Spanish-speaking South America that Western vaccines are evil:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/technology/russia-covid-vaccine-disinformation.html

We are damn lucky British voters are never influenced by Russian trolls, and the Russians were damn lucky we voted that way off our own bat.

No_Offence_Alan

TheScreamingEagles said:

We need to talk about Joe Root's shocking conversion rate, he's never converted a 200 into a 300.

I have never been concerned about Root's conversion rte. A 70 and a 60 is better than a 100 and a 0.

DavidL

OldKingCole said:

Root & Pope both gone now. Pitch apparently breaking up a bit. Declare with 30-45 mins to go, let Anderson and Archer at tired Indian openers?

And a very good morning to one and all.

Last time in Chennai England got 477 and lost by an innings. You get your runs in the first innings here, as many as you possibly can. No declarations, just wear that pitch.

Big_G_NorthWales

YBarddCwsc said:

Jonathan said:

Casino_Royale said:

ydoethur said:

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

Many of us were the same.

Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.

Mistake.

Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.

Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.

I have to say that this is a very peculiar use of the word "tragedy".

There will be a winning side and a losing side in any referendum (which will have to happen in due course). There will be exhilaration among the winners and disappointment among the losers. Scottish independence may happen, or it may not. That is democracy.

But, if Scottish independence happens, why is it a "tragedy" ? It is the right of any people to chose their own future.

Do you even understand what a "tragedy" is ?

Good post

Nigelb

rcs1000 said:

Off topic, if I was American, I'd vote for Ben Sasse.

If I were a Republican, I might consider it, but if I were American I’d vote for the Democrat.

This was a remarkably irony blind comment from one of his Trump supporting state critics...
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/05/ben-sasse-2024-466424
“ The man is one of the most condescending, arrogant, narcissistic individuals I’ve ever had the unfortunate circumstance to deal with, to meet,” said Desautels, whose county party is holding an emergency meeting on Saturday to consider a resolution to censure Sasse. “He does not represent Republican values, as far as I’m concerned.”...

Casino_Royale

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nemtynakht said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, I'm really disappointed that trans rights has become a wedge issue in the SNP, the bigots must be loving this, and those trans people who struggle with so much must be disheartened.

What disappoints me is that there seems to me to be an acceptable range of views. From the scientific man has xy chromosome and woman xx, natural as in seen in nature, to the sex / sexuality has a multitude of shades and differences and people should be able to identify and act accordingly.

Didn't we used to have matters of conscience. It's not as if the traditional side is saying that women should stay at home and work and men must be mechanics!! There is plenty of concern from for example battered wives concerned that a violent husband would have claimed to be a woman to track them down.

A while back someone pointed out all the fears about trans people was very similar to the fears about gay people in the 80s and 90s.

Lowering the age of consent for gay people from 21 to 18/16 would lead to serried ranks of gay men standing outside schools which is similar to the fears that men pretending to be women would be visiting women's changings room.

There are other examples.

Except the issue here isn't about the age of consent between two individuals who've reached sexual maturity; it's about the extent to which an individual can chose their gender identity and effectively opt-in to become a member of the opposite sex. And you forgot there are limits on the former too - there was an active debate on the age of consent in the 1970s and 1980s with the PIE, which was affiliated at the time with the more radical wing of the gay rights movement, arguing that the agent of consent should be lowered to ten. These things do need debating, however sensitive.

In the case of transrights regarding self-identification they do potentially come into conflict with women's rights in refuges, sports and changing rooms, and their identity as women with unique experiences down to their sex and biology as a result. I'd say it's less of an issue the other way (women > men) where there are fewer of them and the social issues less pronounced, but don't forget the young man (ex woman) who recently took Tavistock to court, and won, on the issue gender treatment for minors.

I don't think rights issues can be explained away by referencing back to past equality battles and dismissing any criticism as bigoted; in fact, I'd say that's disingenuous and makes it less likely to build a more accepting and tolerant society.

kle4

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/sommervilletv/status/1357975514225528834

In fairness, it really does seem the analogy of bird spotting is appropriate, as they do look awfully similar. I'd be a good journalist and call them 'tank-like' and claim it was to avoid confusing the readers.

kle4

YBarddCwsc said:

Jonathan said:

Casino_Royale said:

ydoethur said:

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

Many of us were the same.

Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.

Mistake.

Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.

Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.

I have to say that this is a very peculiar use of the word "tragedy".

There will be a winning side and a losing side in any referendum (which will have to happen in due course). There will be exhilaration among the winners and disappointment among the losers. Scottish independence may happen, or it may not. That is democracy.

But, if Scottish independence happens, why is it a "tragedy" ? It is the right of any people to chose their own future.

Do you even understand what a "tragedy" is ?

People are allowed to think that others have made or will make a tragic mistake. People don't stop seeing Labour/Tories winning as a tragedy in action even though it is democracy in action and people can chose their own futures.

ydoethur

@TSE you’re right about the commentary.

‘It’s a lot more slightly away from his ears.’

DavidL

No_Offence_Alan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

We need to talk about Joe Root's shocking conversion rate, he's never converted a 200 into a 300.

I have never been concerned about Root's conversion rte. A 70 and a 60 is better than a 100 and a 0.

He has because when you are in you need to cash in. There will always be some low scores because that is the nature of the game. This year, so far, he has cashed in big time. He's playing brilliantly.

Casino_Royale

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/sommervilletv/status/1357975514225528834

@Dura_Ace will be along in a minute to tell us why that's wrong and give us all the next level of niche.

OldKingCole

YBarddCwsc said:

Jonathan said:

Casino_Royale said:

ydoethur said:

Doesn’t matter though, does it, unless Sturgeon is actually arrested during the campaign? If policy were important the SNP would be fifth given their abject performance in government. The extraordinary story of vexatious prosecutions of their political opponents would be enough, even without the collapse of the education system, hospitals literally falling down, a joke of a police service, sinister attempts to force social services on every family and a ferry procurement system that would embarrass Venezuela.

In the circumstances, if they can get away with that nobody is going to bother about Sturgeon and Cherry arguing about whether those with balls can call themselves women or not.

This is going to be about independence. Not faction, not policy, not personality. Which in itself is a weak hand that the SNP have shown no sign of honesty on, but given how hated Boris Johnson and his party are becoming north of the border looks likely to be enough (especially bearing in mind those who are ambivalent about independence can vote for the SNP safe in the knowledge there isn’t an immediate pathway to leave the UK but an SNP landslide heaps the pressure on Johnson).

It’s disturbing to reflect how pleased I was when the SNP ousted Labour. I thought that was a healthy result for democracy, removing the Mafia-like stranglehold of Labour north of the border, would lead to improved governance and might presage a similar result for Wales.

How tragically mistaken I was.

Many of us were the same.

Labour seemed invincible at the time, and we wanted chunks knocked off them and to know they were beatable.

Mistake.

Interesting comment. I fear some of my colleagues on the left of the Labour felt the same. The SNP were a way to sock it to both the Tories and new Labour. Clearly Labour in Scotland also made huge mistakes and should have fought harder. The key moment of failure was Cameron’s response to the referendum.

Collectively they created the tragedy we see unfolding before us.

I have to say that this is a very peculiar use of the word "tragedy".

There will be a winning side and a losing side in any referendum (which will have to happen in due course). There will be exhilaration among the winners and disappointment among the losers. Scottish independence may happen, or it may not. That is democracy.

But, if Scottish independence happens, why is it a "tragedy" ? It is the right of any people to chose their own future.

Do you even understand what a "tragedy" is ?

Yes; Brexit!

Pulpstar

YBarddCwsc said:

Scott_xP said:

Man's face eaten by leopard...

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240

" ... received £100 a week “pocket money” in exchange for about 25 hours of childcare per week. "

There really are no-one as mean as the British upper middle-classes, the Remain constituency par excellence .

Let the bastards pay a reasonable wage, & I am sure they will be able to find child-care.

Has to be minimum wage with board as a seperate item doesn't it ?

Dura_Ace

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/sommervilletv/status/1357975514225528834

@Dura_Ace will be along in a minute to tell us why that's wrong and give us all the next level of niche.

Armour is not really my subject. BMPs are easy to identify because they are usually on fire.

YBarddCwsc

Pulpstar said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Scott_xP said:

Man's face eaten by leopard...

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240

" ... received £100 a week “pocket money” in exchange for about 25 hours of childcare per week. "

There really are no-one as mean as the British upper middle-classes, the Remain constituency par excellence .

Let the bastards pay a reasonable wage, & I am sure they will be able to find child-care.

Has to be minimum wage with board as a seperate item doesn't it ?

They are employing someone and evading all the responsibility of an employer (including the tax responsibilities).

kle4

YBarddCwsc said:

My sympathies here lie with Sturgeon. She inherited a difficult problem, and she largely did what I think I would have done in the same circumstances.

If you want a sexual harassment case that led to the resignation of a First Minister, see Carwyn Jones.

As always, Welsh Labour provide a text-book case in how NOT to handle it.

Inheriting a difficult problem with few good options doesn't make choosing poor ones and acting unfairly, if that is what happened, ok.

It's all too murky that I doubt enough people will remain interested enough for any conclusion to really cut through though.

I do find it bizarre that having been so very disciplined, eerily so, the SNP have had public spats over trans issues.

Casino_Royale

Dura_Ace said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/sommervilletv/status/1357975514225528834

@Dura_Ace will be along in a minute to tell us why that's wrong and give us all the next level of niche.

Armour is not really my subject. BMPs are easy to identify because they are usually on fire.

You disappoint me.

algarkirk

Scott_xP said:

Man's face eaten by leopard...

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357960033372426240

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1357967791291252737

Three issues are getting confused here. (1) Who can make the rules and (2) Who can change the rules and (3) Has the government/Home Office messed up.

Brexit creates the opportunity for a level playing field in migration. An Australia, Lithuanian, French and Tanzanian person should all be in the same position, replacing the system whereby 400,000,000 people having absolute rights made life difficult/impossible for the rest who went to the back of the queue.

This is good.

Implementation may of course be rubbish - after all this is the old Home Office.

Because of Brexit it can be changed and your vote and voice counts.

Don't confuse the questions. Many Remainers don't seem to understand the matter, and are full of whataboutery over individual issues which the UK has control over. dealing with it is called politics. Ask a Belgian who he should vote for to get the vaccine programme sorted.