We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
Even Australia has had outbreaks that ran out of control despite a tough border policy. It's only because they are so spread out that they could get away without a national lockdown.
Gosh William it almost sounds like you are defending the uk there
I don't really get the Brittas thing. Keir Starmer sounding like an idiot from a TV series doesn't make him an idiot, so I am not sure what we are supposed to make of it.
Moreover, the Brittas Empire is a ridiculously obscure prog from decades ago. I am of the right age to remember it, but I barely remember it. Even tho I really like Chirs Barrie's work: he was a fine impressionist and was excellent on Red Dwarf
I am sure he inspired Richard Ayoade - who is also brilliant. The Humour of the Geek.
18 months ago or so, when the Supreme Court prorogation decision happened, The Sun went with a Dick Emery tribute on its front cover "You are lawful, but I don't like you" or some such. Bizarre. I'm 47 and had to use Google to figure out what the reference was all about.
This afternoon, driving home from school, I was behind a car which advertised its driver Rob’s business.
Unfortunately, due to a certain lack, it declared the nature of that business was ‘robs taxis.’
You assume it was a lack I can imagine it could be a lucrative business to arrange robbing taxi's you get 100£ from it they get cctv images of their taxi being robbed and claim it was 200£ profit all round
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
I'm not sure Corbyn would have given the quality slightly left of centre administration that Ardern in NZ has provided either. He'd have probably fucked up the vaccine procurement on top of all the shit Boris has got wrong.
Senior councillors and Bath MP Wera Hobhouse were among the objectors to EE and 3’s application to upgrade a 15-metre mast that has been in place since 2006.
Advice about what to write on anniversary card to my wife. I`m crap at this.
Google suggestions include:
• You're the perfect one for me. • I love our life together. • You're an amazing wife. • I'm so lucky to have you in my life. • I love being married to you. • You're more beautiful now than ever.
I can`t bring myself to write any of that sappy stuff. And “so far so good” doesn`t seem adequate.
There must be a third way?
Go for the sappy stuff. Unless it is so out of character, she suspects you are then going to admit to an affair....
Friend of mine gave his wife a hefty voucher for Agent Prov lingerie at Xmas. She then went all subdued and quiet on him, and finally revealed, a week later, that she was presuming he had a mistress, and he'd mixed the presents up (as happens in Love, Actually). Ouch
I would have thought most mistresses would have been 'let go' during lockdown.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
I'm not sure Corbyn would have given the quality slightly left of centre administration that Ardern in NZ has provided either. He'd have probably fucked up the vaccine procurement on top of all the shit Boris has got wrong.
No way Jezza would have paid big pharma all that money to do R&D and for advanced purchases. Would have asked the NHS to work out how to make a vaccine.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
I'm not sure Corbyn would have given the quality slightly left of centre administration that Ardern in NZ has provided either. He'd have probably fucked up the vaccine procurement on top of all the shit Boris has got wrong.
well labour were the full explosive diahorrhea experience in that sentence
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
I'm not sure Corbyn would have given the quality slightly left of centre administration that Ardern in NZ has provided either. He'd have probably fucked up the vaccine procurement on top of all the shit Boris has got wrong.
Corbyn and Milne would have procured the Russian vaccine in large quantities.
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
Good answer. Or social workers (grossly overstretched and unable to do house visits). Or electricians and plumbers.
The problem is I suppose once you start on a list like this, where do you stop?
Brittas on travel corridors: "right step, but slow again"
"The measures the Prime Minister has announced are the right measures."
While Starmer is clearly sub-Corbyn useless, the Chris Barrie character reference is as poor as Starmer undoubtedly is
Yes, I think the frequent references to Gordon Brittas by a handful of posters are tiresome (and rather childish, even).
This forum is a bit cliquey at times. New posters, or those who visit infrequently, wouldn't, I suspect, understand the reference.
It's the new Keith Starmer which was a rip roaring success.
Well at least we know who that refers to. Gordon Brittas? I'd never heard of him. Suggests a bit of a struggle to land heavy gloves on Keith Keir.
Once you have heard the voice / tone of both, its immediately obvious. They also look a bit alike.
Chris Barrie sounds nothing like Sir Keir!
But his character Gordon Brittas does!
It's a fine parallel. On the one hand, you have a pious, nasal busybody with delusions of grandeur that all go horribly wrong.
And then there's Gordon Brittas
Brittas used to all bang on about his grandiose dream of world peace, global harmony, etc via the work of the leisure centre...but never spelt out how he would ever achieve it.
I don't really get the Brittas thing. Keir Starmer sounding like an idiot from a TV series doesn't make him an idiot, so I am not sure what we are supposed to make of it.
Moreover, the Brittas Empire is a ridiculously obscure prog from decades ago. I am of the right age to remember it, but I barely remember it. Even tho I really like Chirs Barrie's work: he was a fine impressionist and was excellent on Red Dwarf
I am sure he inspired Richard Ayoade - who is also brilliant. The Humour of the Geek.
18 months ago or so, when the Supreme Court prorogation decision happened, The Sun went with a Dick Emery tribute on its front cover "You are lawful, but I don't like you" or some such. Bizarre. I'm 47 and had to use Google to figure out what the reference was all about.
There's a piquant insight in John Updike's splendid autobiography, Self-Consciousness, where he comments on this. He is recalling a day when he goes into New York City to meet the New Yorker staff (for which he wrote to much acclaim)., and he realises that the young staffers, even though they admire him, hardly understand any of his culttural references, and he understands almost none of theirs. At that point, he comprehends that his career is nearing its end, certainly in terms of journalism.
IIRC he reckons it happens in your early 60s, if not sooner.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
Not exactly the one thing. The UK is testing over 600k people a day. That is impressive. It has been a leader in the development of the vaccine. Impressive. It is doing 40% of COVID genomic sequencing in the world. That is fucking impressive. It leads in evolutionary mapping of viruses, period, and with that sequencing stat, of COVID evolutionary mapping in particular.
The pervasive negativity of the bulk of posters on this site remind me of one of the great things about living in the US - optimism and belief engendering positivity.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
Even Australia has had outbreaks that ran out of control despite a tough border policy. It's only because they are so spread out that they could get away without a national lockdown.
This is very true: Australia had total (really serious) state lockdowns that lasted six, seven, eight weeks.
We never had that level of serious lockdown, and we also don't have the advantage of having cities that are as far apart as London and Helsinki.
Returning life to normal - absent a vaccine - requires a willingness to completely shut the economy for eight to twelve weeks. You need to manage it until you've had a week or 10 days, with no cases whatsoever. And then you need to quarantine all travellers for two weeks upon entry.
This is what Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong and China have done.
And even this hasn't been perfect: they've all had outbreaks that have necessitated mini (total) lockdowns.
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
I'm a carer for my 48 year old wife who could never look after herself, post stroke.
Legally I am not her carer, there is no point as I earn too much to gain any benefit from the effort of the paperwork.
It worries me like hell that even a few days in hospital (I'm 45 years old) would lead to tremendous problems in terms of how my wife would be looked after.
I don't expect to get a vaccine until almost at the end of the list.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Sorry: I thought we required a PCR test in the previous 48 hours. Not enough, I agree, but we aren't seriously allowing antigen tests to count as a negative are we?
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
Not exactly the one thing. The UK is testing over 600k people a day. That is impressive. It has been a leader in the development of the vaccine. Impressive. It is doing 40% of COVID genomic sequencing in the world. That is fucking impressive. It leads in evolutionary mapping of viruses, period, and with that sequencing stat, of COVID evolutionary mapping in particular.
The pervasive negativity of the bulk of posters on this site remind me of one of the great things about living in the US - optimism and belief engendering positivity.
You are right. And I consider myself properly chastised. The air of negativity in the UK is sometimes so overwhelming we Brits miss this stuff. Thankyou
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
Not exactly the one thing. The UK is testing over 600k people a day. That is impressive. It has been a leader in the development of the vaccine. Impressive. It is doing 40% of COVID genomic sequencing in the world. That is fucking impressive. It leads in evolutionary mapping of viruses, period, and with that sequencing stat, of COVID evolutionary mapping in particular.
The pervasive negativity of the bulk of posters on this site remind me of one of the great things about living in the US - optimism and belief engendering positivity.
Hate to sound pervasively negative, but 1. Optimism and belief engendering positivity are common side effects of crystal meth and 2. look where they've got you.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
I'm not sure Corbyn would have given the quality slightly left of centre administration that Ardern in NZ has provided either. He'd have probably fucked up the vaccine procurement on top of all the shit Boris has got wrong.
Corbyn and Milne would have procured the Russian vaccine in large quantities.
There is a fair old list of countries now that have bought it. Not sure anybody believes it is 110% effective.or whatever they are claiming this week, but it would be a tragedy if it was total bust.
One of the Chinese ones claimed 70 odd percent and in Brazil they only found it to be about 50%.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Sorry: I thought we required a PCR test in the previous 48 hours. Not enough, I agree, but we aren't seriously allowing antigen tests to count as a negative are we?
LAMP and lateral flow tests qualify.
That's bonkers, that is.
You were expecting something better from the department of Transport?
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
I'm a carer for my 48 year old wife who could never look after herself, post stroke.
Legally I am not her carer, there is no point as I earn too much to gain any benefit from the effort of the paperwork.
It worries me like hell that even a few days in hospital (I'm 45 years old) would lead to tremendous problems in terms of how my wife would be looked after.
I don't expect to get a vaccine until almost at the end of the list.
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
I'm a carer for my 48 year old wife who could never look after herself, post stroke.
Legally I am not her carer, there is no point as I earn too much to gain any benefit from the effort of the paperwork.
It worries me like hell that even a few days in hospital (I'm 45 years old) would lead to tremendous problems in terms of how my wife would be looked after.
I don't expect to get a vaccine until almost at the end of the list.
Can you not get yourself classified as either a healthcare worker or a critical worker? Seriously? It seems you do in reality fulfill both functions.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
I'm not sure Corbyn would have given the quality slightly left of centre administration that Ardern in NZ has provided either. He'd have probably fucked up the vaccine procurement on top of all the shit Boris has got wrong.
Corbyn and Milne would have procured the Russian vaccine in large quantities.
There is a fair old list of countries now that have bought it. Not sure anybody believes it is 110% effective.or whatever they are claiming this week, but it would be a tragedy if it was total bust.
One of the Chinese ones claimed 70 odd percent and in Brazil they only found it to be about 50%.
I think the 70% figure came from Brazil, actually, so they were refining their own numbers, not China's.
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
I'm a carer for my 48 year old wife who could never look after herself, post stroke.
Legally I am not her carer, there is no point as I earn too much to gain any benefit from the effort of the paperwork.
It worries me like hell that even a few days in hospital (I'm 45 years old) would lead to tremendous problems in terms of how my wife would be looked after.
I don't expect to get a vaccine until almost at the end of the list.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
Not exactly the one thing. The UK is testing over 600k people a day. That is impressive. It has been a leader in the development of the vaccine. Impressive. It is doing 40% of COVID genomic sequencing in the world. That is fucking impressive. It leads in evolutionary mapping of viruses, period, and with that sequencing stat, of COVID evolutionary mapping in particular.
The pervasive negativity of the bulk of posters on this site remind me of one of the great things about living in the US - optimism and belief engendering positivity.
If you think people are negative on here about the governments handling....have you watched the news channels or read the papers...you would think the UK was the worst in the world from testing to death rates.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
I'm not sure Corbyn would have given the quality slightly left of centre administration that Ardern in NZ has provided either. He'd have probably fucked up the vaccine procurement on top of all the shit Boris has got wrong.
Corbyn and Milne would have procured the Russian vaccine in large quantities.
There is a fair old list of countries now that have bought it. Not sure anybody believes it is 110% effective.or whatever they are claiming this week, but it would be a tragedy if it was total bust.
One of the Chinese ones claimed 70 odd percent and in Brazil they only found it to be about 50%.
I think the 70% figure came from Brazil, actually, so they were refining their own numbers, not China's.
Hands up anyone who believes Putin really got the Sputnik V vaccine, not Pfizer?
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
They're in group 2. Childcare workers and teachers may get bumped up to the post group 1-4 priority as well from what Hancock was saying earlier in the week. I think they recognise that it's not easy to ask them to go back to work and be below perfectly healthy low risk people aged 50-70 many of who will be able to WFH or don't work at all.
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
I'm a carer for my 48 year old wife who could never look after herself, post stroke.
Legally I am not her carer, there is no point as I earn too much to gain any benefit from the effort of the paperwork.
It worries me like hell that even a few days in hospital (I'm 45 years old) would lead to tremendous problems in terms of how my wife would be looked after.
I don't expect to get a vaccine until almost at the end of the list.
Senior councillors and Bath MP Wera Hobhouse were among the objectors to EE and 3’s application to upgrade a 15-metre mast that has been in place since 2006.
I'd be interested to hear about the debate, if anyone was warching it. The emphasis on *formal* minutes is suggestive.
It's thought to be quite common for councillors who object to an application on grounds that are not considered relevant to cast around for an objection that can be sustained. I have no idea if that happened here, but more than formal minutes are needed to make it clear.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
On a point of order:
They actually voted him out *before* victory in World War II. The election was on the 5th July and Japan surrendered on the 15th August.
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
No.
You can't compare Covid-19 to World War 1 - seriously, you can't. The UK lost about 1 million dead in a four year period (and there weren't so many of us at the time). It was true most people knew a family who had lost a son or husband or father. The numbers of names on local war memorials around England are always larger for WW1 than for WW2.
Many people will not have been touched directly by Covid. My brother had it and has survived - apart from one work colleague he is the only person I know who has had it.
You are right there is a desire to return to something like normal except it won't be the same. Working at Home is here to stay - the morning commute on a crowded train or bus or in a traffic jam doesn't have the appeal it once did. Online shopping and home deliveries are here to stay. Jobs lost aren't going to be rescued.
Politics was fundamentally altered by WW1 - it ended the Liberal Party and enabled the rise of Labour who, let's not forget, formed a minority Government in 1923, something unthinkable before 1914. The UK wasn't the same - Ireland would leave as a direct result of WW1.
I'm not prepared to join the triumphalism for this Government if it gets the vaccination programme right. Too many other mistakes have been made - not closing the borders, the treatment of care home residents discharged with the virus from hospitals. There needs to be a full and proper independent public enquiry to which ALL Ministers (including the Prime Minister) should be compelled to give evidence and account for their actions.
It would be too easy to try to forget about this - try to imagine it never happened - enjoy life, have a holiday, go to the pub (if that's the kind of thing you like). I've said repeatedly the mental health recovery needs the same time and resources as the vaccination programme but I see little sign anyone in Government is willing to confront the mental health damage of Covid.
We need to pause and remember the dead and those for whom Covid-19 has caused permanent health damage. The very first thing we must do is plan properly so that IF this happens again we'll be much better prepared.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
WW2 was unique in that respect. And Churchill returned to power, a few years later.
But yes, it could go that way. This is a once-in-a-century event. We are all predicting in the dark
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
Not exactly the one thing. The UK is testing over 600k people a day. That is impressive. It has been a leader in the development of the vaccine. Impressive. It is doing 40% of COVID genomic sequencing in the world. That is fucking impressive. It leads in evolutionary mapping of viruses, period, and with that sequencing stat, of COVID evolutionary mapping in particular.
The pervasive negativity of the bulk of posters on this site remind me of one of the great things about living in the US - optimism and belief engendering positivity.
If you think people are negative on here about the governments handling....have you watched the news channels or read the papers...you would think the UK was the worst in the world from testing to death rates.
Vaccines, testing, genomic sequencing: Britain has first class in these.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Sorry: I thought we required a PCR test in the previous 48 hours. Not enough, I agree, but we aren't seriously allowing antigen tests to count as a negative are we?
LAMP and lateral flow tests qualify.
That's bonkers, that is.
I think it's been done because they can't require PCR tests to enter and simultaneously tell the French that lateral flow tests are fine for truckers. It's ridiculous because setting up rapid PCR testing at Dover and Felixstowe is well within the realms of possibility but the government is asleep at the wheel.
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
They're in group 2. Childcare workers and teachers may get bumped up to the post group 1-4 priority as well from what Hancock was saying earlier in the week. I think they recognise that it's not easy to ask them to go back to work and be below perfectly healthy low risk people aged 50-70 many of who will be able to WFH or don't work at all.
I mean carers at home (non-professional i.e. family). Group 2 is professional care works in care homes as I understand it.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
Not exactly the one thing. The UK is testing over 600k people a day. That is impressive. It has been a leader in the development of the vaccine. Impressive. It is doing 40% of COVID genomic sequencing in the world. That is fucking impressive. It leads in evolutionary mapping of viruses, period, and with that sequencing stat, of COVID evolutionary mapping in particular.
The pervasive negativity of the bulk of posters on this site remind me of one of the great things about living in the US - optimism and belief engendering positivity.
If you think people are negative on here about the governments handling....have you watched the news channels or read the papers...you would think the UK was the worst in the world from testing to death rates.
Vaccines, testing, genomic sequencing: Britain has first class in these.
Economic impact: Bottom quartile at best.
Death rates: Amongst the worst.
A mixed bag at best.
React trials for new drugs.... government (plus NHS obvs) get a cookie for that.
CPAP masks from the ventalitor challenge....another cookie.
PPE first wave, bung your mates contracts, replace man from delmonte with Harding, not closing the sodding border..bad.
Senior councillors and Bath MP Wera Hobhouse were among the objectors to EE and 3’s application to upgrade a 15-metre mast that has been in place since 2006.
Here's the thing though - lots of planning applications get refused, or councillors seek to get them refused, on grounds which are not the real reason they are opposed by most people. For example, where the principle of development is already established local people may oppose on grounds which are really just that they don't want any housing there at all. That would not be defendable, so councillors come up with something else.
So while the explanation may be true, it isn't proof the reports are definitely untrue, since if 'many' of those objecting did so because of 5G concerns, the councillors may well have sought to refuse on their behalf, and just sought out a reason that could be defended. NickPalmer lays out that very point more concisely.
Bottom line, Hobhouse has opened the door to such accusations, with potential blowback to her party, because she appears to have been either a fruitcake, or a lazy coward. Her colleagues locally, if they do not give in the same (and in my experience local councillors are less silly than MPs on such matters), should be mad at her.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
Not exactly the one thing. The UK is testing over 600k people a day. That is impressive. It has been a leader in the development of the vaccine. Impressive. It is doing 40% of COVID genomic sequencing in the world. That is fucking impressive. It leads in evolutionary mapping of viruses, period, and with that sequencing stat, of COVID evolutionary mapping in particular.
The pervasive negativity of the bulk of posters on this site remind me of one of the great things about living in the US - optimism and belief engendering positivity.
Good point, I prefer a balance than relentless optimism US style or doom-mongers but the widespread doubt that we can manage millions of jabs per week was bizarre. The limiting factor was only ever going to be supply, we do 15m+ flu jabs every year, nearly all in late autumn, early winter, without it having any special priority to it.
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
No.
You can't compare Covid-19 to World War 1 - seriously, you can't. The UK lost about 1 million dead in a four year period (and there weren't so many of us at the time). It was true most people knew a family who had lost a son or husband or father. The numbers of names on local war memorials around England are always larger for WW1 than for WW2.
Many people will not have been touched directly by Covid. My brother had it and has survived - apart from one work colleague he is the only person I know who has had it.
You are right there is a desire to return to something like normal except it won't be the same. Working at Home is here to stay - the morning commute on a crowded train or bus or in a traffic jam doesn't have the appeal it once did. Online shopping and home deliveries are here to stay. Jobs lost aren't going to be rescued.
Politics was fundamentally altered by WW1 - it ended the Liberal Party and enabled the rise of Labour who, let's not forget, formed a minority Government in 1923, something unthinkable before 1914. The UK wasn't the same - Ireland would leave as a direct result of WW1.
I'm not prepared to join the triumphalism for this Government if it gets the vaccination programme right. Too many other mistakes have been made - not closing the borders, the treatment of care home residents discharged with the virus from hospitals. There needs to be a full and proper independent public enquiry to which ALL Ministers (including the Prime Minister) should be compelled to give evidence and account for their actions.
It would be too easy to try to forget about this - try to imagine it never happened - enjoy life, have a holiday, go to the pub (if that's the kind of thing you like). I've said repeatedly the mental health recovery needs the same time and resources as the vaccination programme but I see little sign anyone in Government is willing to confront the mental health damage of Covid.
We need to pause and remember the dead and those for whom Covid-19 has caused permanent health damage. The very first thing we must do is plan properly so that IF this happens again we'll be much better prepared.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
Not exactly the one thing. The UK is testing over 600k people a day. That is impressive. It has been a leader in the development of the vaccine. Impressive. It is doing 40% of COVID genomic sequencing in the world. That is fucking impressive. It leads in evolutionary mapping of viruses, period, and with that sequencing stat, of COVID evolutionary mapping in particular.
The pervasive negativity of the bulk of posters on this site remind me of one of the great things about living in the US - optimism and belief engendering positivity.
If you think people are negative on here about the governments handling....have you watched the news channels or read the papers...you would think the UK was the worst in the world from testing to death rates.
Vaccines, testing, genomic sequencing: Britain has first class in these.
Economic impact: Bottom quartile at best.
Death rates: Amongst the worst.
A mixed bag at best.
The latter two very much depend on the first, if the UK is out of lockdown with the nation immunised by July then it's a game changer. Literally we'll recover very quickly from this current shite as everything begins to reopen and investors get some certainty over what the UK economy will look like in the near term. On deaths, sadly it's a marathon not a sprint. As above if everyone is immunised by July the deaths drop to almost zero, it's the defining facror of our aggressive rollout plan by risk of death and hospitalisation. The UK could be in a position where daily COVID deaths are in double figures within 6-8 weeks, I don't think any comparably sized country will be in that position.
The government has bet the farm on vaccines, it may or may not work out, but if it does then it will, in relative terms, make the UK performance look a lot better than it actually has been.
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
No.
You can't compare Covid-19 to World War 1 - seriously, you can't. The UK lost about 1 million dead in a four year period (and there weren't so many of us at the time). It was true most people knew a family who had lost a son or husband or father. The numbers of names on local war memorials around England are always larger for WW1 than for WW2.
Many people will not have been touched directly by Covid. My brother had it and has survived - apart from one work colleague he is the only person I know who has had it.
You are right there is a desire to return to something like normal except it won't be the same. Working at Home is here to stay - the morning commute on a crowded train or bus or in a traffic jam doesn't have the appeal it once did. Online shopping and home deliveries are here to stay. Jobs lost aren't going to be rescued.
Politics was fundamentally altered by WW1 - it ended the Liberal Party and enabled the rise of Labour who, let's not forget, formed a minority Government in 1923, something unthinkable before 1914. The UK wasn't the same - Ireland would leave as a direct result of WW1.
I'm not prepared to join the triumphalism for this Government if it gets the vaccination programme right. Too many other mistakes have been made - not closing the borders, the treatment of care home residents discharged with the virus from hospitals. There needs to be a full and proper independent public enquiry to which ALL Ministers (including the Prime Minister) should be compelled to give evidence and account for their actions.
It would be too easy to try to forget about this - try to imagine it never happened - enjoy life, have a holiday, go to the pub (if that's the kind of thing you like). I've said repeatedly the mental health recovery needs the same time and resources as the vaccination programme but I see little sign anyone in Government is willing to confront the mental health damage of Covid.
We need to pause and remember the dead and those for whom Covid-19 has caused permanent health damage. The very first thing we must do is plan properly so that IF this happens again we'll be much better prepared.
With you on a lot of this, I especially think people will be surprised at the change that is going to happen. Many here for example seem to be keen to get back to the office and think everyone is like that. It is there socialising space as much as anything.
My experience over the last 20 years are the people who socialise at the office tends to be senior staff networking, coincidentally we have a lot here compared to the average population. Most below middle management and the very young go to work then go home straight after. We don't really want to get to know our colleagues that well as we know we will change job in a couple of years for a payrise or promotion as we won't get one here
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
On a point of order:
They actually voted him out *before* victory in World War II. The election was on the 5th July and Japan surrendered on the 15th August.
So after Russia beat Germany, but before the USA beat Japan. My understanding from talking to my parents, and looking at contemporary photos, was that the consensus in the UK was VE = V.
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
They're in group 2. Childcare workers and teachers may get bumped up to the post group 1-4 priority as well from what Hancock was saying earlier in the week. I think they recognise that it's not easy to ask them to go back to work and be below perfectly healthy low risk people aged 50-70 many of who will be able to WFH or don't work at all.
I mean carers at home (non-professional i.e. family). Group 2 is professional care works in care homes as I understand it.
Oh I see, yeah I don't think they're in any specific list. Would be difficult to police, lots of husbands and wives suddenly become carers for each other.
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
No.
You can't compare Covid-19 to World War 1 - seriously, you can't. The UK lost about 1 million dead in a four year period (and there weren't so many of us at the time). It was true most people knew a family who had lost a son or husband or father. The numbers of names on local war memorials around England are always larger for WW1 than for WW2.
Actually, the 1 million is for the British empire as a whole. 723,000 died from the UK itself (still including a number of recent emigrants.) That’s not to say that it wasn’t a major trauma.
However, the immediate impact of Covid on *everybody* has been much greater than the impact of the First World War, or indeed the following flu pandemic. There were nothing like so many restrictions in either world war as there have been in the country over the last ten months.
As for statistics, it seems likely Covid will end up causing about a third of the number of fatalities of a four year war in twelve months. So again, I’m not convinced by your reasoning. One difference of course is that in war the casualties are disproportionately fit young men so the shock if not the grief is greater.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
I'm not sure Corbyn would have given the quality slightly left of centre administration that Ardern in NZ has provided either. He'd have probably fucked up the vaccine procurement on top of all the shit Boris has got wrong.
Corbyn and Milne would have procured the Russian vaccine in large quantities.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
On a point of order:
They actually voted him out *before* victory in World War II. The election was on the 5th July and Japan surrendered on the 15th August.
So after Russia beat Germany, but before the USA beat Japan. My understanding from talking to my parents, and looking at contemporary photos, was that the consensus in the UK was VE = V.
Yes.
That was the rather disgusted reaction of a friend of mine (now dead) serving in the Far East. On an announcement being made of VE Day, he and all his shipmates shouted very loudly, in unison, ‘so fucking what?’
Senior councillors and Bath MP Wera Hobhouse were among the objectors to EE and 3’s application to upgrade a 15-metre mast that has been in place since 2006.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
WW2 was unique in that respect. And Churchill returned to power, a few years later.
But yes, it could go that way. This is a once-in-a-century event. We are all predicting in the dark
Unless you have a time-machine, we are all always predicting in the dark
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
No.
You can't compare Covid-19 to World War 1 - seriously, you can't. The UK lost about 1 million dead in a four year period (and there weren't so many of us at the time). It was true most people knew a family who had lost a son or husband or father. The numbers of names on local war memorials around England are always larger for WW1 than for WW2.
Actually, the 1 million is for the British empire as a whole. 723,000 died from the UK itself (still including a number of recent emigrants.) That’s not to say that it wasn’t a major trauma.
However, the immediate impact of Covid on *everybody* has been much greater than the impact of the First World War, or indeed the following flu pandemic. There were nothing like so many restrictions in either world war as there have been in the country over the last ten months.
As for statistics, it seems likely Covid will end up causing about a third of the number of fatalities of a four year war in twelve months. So again, I’m not convinced by your reasoning. One difference of course is that in war the casualties are disproportionately fit young men so the shock if not the grief is greater.
"nothing like so many restrictions in either world war as there have been in the country over the last ten months" I seriously dispute, if you look at what you were restricted to eating by WW2 rationing for instance, or de facto restrictions imposed by the luftwaffe on sleeping in your own home.
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
They're in group 2. Childcare workers and teachers may get bumped up to the post group 1-4 priority as well from what Hancock was saying earlier in the week. I think they recognise that it's not easy to ask them to go back to work and be below perfectly healthy low risk people aged 50-70 many of who will be able to WFH or don't work at all.
I mean carers at home (non-professional i.e. family). Group 2 is professional care works in care homes as I understand it.
Oh I see, yeah I don't think they're in any specific list. Would be difficult to police, lots of husbands and wives suddenly become carers for each other.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
WW2 was unique in that respect. And Churchill returned to power, a few years later.
But yes, it could go that way. This is a once-in-a-century event. We are all predicting in the dark
Unless you have a time-machine, we are all always predicting in the dark
I was just a lurker then, but I seem to remember some posters predicting that Covid would become an overwhelming global event, back in Feb 2020 - even as the rest of the site scoffed, and wanted to discuss wood burning stoves
So it's not always a guess. Hideous pandemics - and the associating lockdowns. quarantines, etc - are actually quite easy to predict, once you crunch the numbers of the initial infection. Plagues follow a model. This is presumably why epidemiology attracts mathematicians.
What is almost impossible to predict is the social, political and economic consequences of a pandemic. Too many human imponderables.
It appears that, as with many other things, the Trump administration had shit the bed on this one.
Does this really matter? What would be the advantage of not having used all the vaccine as fast as possible?
If the policy is a 3 or 4 week gap between jabs it means half of the doses need to be held in reserve for second jabs. If that isn't the case then they'll be relying on current supply to complete second jabs meaning new first jabs will see a big slowdown without a supply increase.
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
No.
You can't compare Covid-19 to World War 1 - seriously, you can't. The UK lost about 1 million dead in a four year period (and there weren't so many of us at the time). It was true most people knew a family who had lost a son or husband or father. The numbers of names on local war memorials around England are always larger for WW1 than for WW2.
Actually, the 1 million is for the British empire as a whole. 723,000 died from the UK itself (still including a number of recent emigrants.) That’s not to say that it wasn’t a major trauma.
However, the immediate impact of Covid on *everybody* has been much greater than the impact of the First World War, or indeed the following flu pandemic. There were nothing like so many restrictions in either world war as there have been in the country over the last ten months.
As for statistics, it seems likely Covid will end up causing about a third of the number of fatalities of a four year war in twelve months. So again, I’m not convinced by your reasoning. One difference of course is that in war the casualties are disproportionately fit young men so the shock if not the grief is greater.
"nothing like so many restrictions in either world war as there have been in the country over the last ten months" I seriously dispute, if you look at what you were restricted to eating by WW2 rationing for instance, or de facto restrictions imposed by the luftwaffe on sleeping in your own home.
Not to mention having your work and often your place of habitation directed by the Government if you were up to IIRC 64. You could end up anywhere from Scapa Flow to Burma, or shovelling horse manure for grumpy hill farmers, depending on sex and age.
The other point that m,ight be made is that the 1918-19 Flu was just as much a part of WW1 as trench foot or typhus on the Eastern Front. So perhaps its deaths out to be counted in ... they certainly seem to have blurred in the collective memory.
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
No.
You can't compare Covid-19 to World War 1 - seriously, you can't. The UK lost about 1 million dead in a four year period (and there weren't so many of us at the time). It was true most people knew a family who had lost a son or husband or father. The numbers of names on local war memorials around England are always larger for WW1 than for WW2.
Actually, the 1 million is for the British empire as a whole. 723,000 died from the UK itself (still including a number of recent emigrants.) That’s not to say that it wasn’t a major trauma.
However, the immediate impact of Covid on *everybody* has been much greater than the impact of the First World War, or indeed the following flu pandemic. There were nothing like so many restrictions in either world war as there have been in the country over the last ten months.
As for statistics, it seems likely Covid will end up causing about a third of the number of fatalities of a four year war in twelve months. So again, I’m not convinced by your reasoning. One difference of course is that in war the casualties are disproportionately fit young men so the shock if not the grief is greater.
"nothing like so many restrictions in either world war as there have been in the country over the last ten months" I seriously dispute, if you look at what you were restricted to eating by WW2 rationing for instance, or de facto restrictions imposed by the luftwaffe on sleeping in your own home.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
On a point of order:
They actually voted him out *before* victory in World War II. The election was on the 5th July and Japan surrendered on the 15th August.
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
No.
You can't compare Covid-19 to World War 1 - seriously, you can't. The UK lost about 1 million dead in a four year period (and there weren't so many of us at the time). It was true most people knew a family who had lost a son or husband or father. The numbers of names on local war memorials around England are always larger for WW1 than for WW2.
Actually, the 1 million is for the British empire as a whole. 723,000 died from the UK itself (still including a number of recent emigrants.) That’s not to say that it wasn’t a major trauma.
However, the immediate impact of Covid on *everybody* has been much greater than the impact of the First World War, or indeed the following flu pandemic. There were nothing like so many restrictions in either world war as there have been in the country over the last ten months.
As for statistics, it seems likely Covid will end up causing about a third of the number of fatalities of a four year war in twelve months. So again, I’m not convinced by your reasoning. One difference of course is that in war the casualties are disproportionately fit young men so the shock if not the grief is greater.
"nothing like so many restrictions in either world war as there have been in the country over the last ten months" I seriously dispute, if you look at what you were restricted to eating by WW2 rationing for instance, or de facto restrictions imposed by the luftwaffe on sleeping in your own home.
The comparison is with WW1
Still, conscription. Massive public debt ... er, well, there we are. And very badly bungled food supply and control - fortunately they learned the lesson and got it almost right in 1938-39 with rationijng ab initio.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Point 2 has been widely reported today. Mostly foreign workers going home.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
WW2 was unique in that respect. And Churchill returned to power, a few years later.
But yes, it could go that way. This is a once-in-a-century event. We are all predicting in the dark
Unless you have a time-machine, we are all always predicting in the dark
I was just a lurker then, but I seem to remember some posters predicting that Covid would become an overwhelming global event, back in Feb 2020 - even as the rest of the site scoffed, and wanted to discuss wood burning stoves
So it's not always a guess. Hideous pandemics - and the associating lockdowns. quarantines, etc - are actually quite easy to predict, once you crunch the numbers of the initial infection. Plagues follow a model. This is presumably why epidemiology attracts mathematicians.
What is almost impossible to predict is the social, political and economic consequences of a pandemic. Too many human imponderables.
It appears that, as with many other things, the Trump administration had shit the bed on this one.
Does this really matter? What would be the advantage of not having used all the vaccine as fast as possible?
If the policy is a 3 or 4 week gap between jabs it means half of the doses need to be held in reserve for second jabs. If that isn't the case then they'll be relying on current supply to complete second jabs meaning new first jabs will see a big slowdown without a supply increase.
That plus they seem to have completely bolloxed the supply chain by providing untrue information.
Combined with a Pfzier slowdown, this is going to be a shit show.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
In a hundred years' time, 2020-21 will be remembered as the pivotal years when it became clear that the planet was irretrievably fucked on the climate and envirinment front. "Covid" will be a word recognised by historians only.
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
No.
You can't compare Covid-19 to World War 1 - seriously, you can't. The UK lost about 1 million dead in a four year period (and there weren't so many of us at the time). It was true most people knew a family who had lost a son or husband or father. The numbers of names on local war memorials around England are always larger for WW1 than for WW2.
Many people will not have been touched directly by Covid. My brother had it and has survived - apart from one work colleague he is the only person I know who has had it.
You are right there is a desire to return to something like normal except it won't be the same. Working at Home is here to stay - the morning commute on a crowded train or bus or in a traffic jam doesn't have the appeal it once did. Online shopping and home deliveries are here to stay. Jobs lost aren't going to be rescued.
Politics was fundamentally altered by WW1 - it ended the Liberal Party and enabled the rise of Labour who, let's not forget, formed a minority Government in 1923, something unthinkable before 1914. The UK wasn't the same - Ireland would leave as a direct result of WW1.
I'm not prepared to join the triumphalism for this Government if it gets the vaccination programme right. Too many other mistakes have been made - not closing the borders, the treatment of care home residents discharged with the virus from hospitals. There needs to be a full and proper independent public enquiry to which ALL Ministers (including the Prime Minister) should be compelled to give evidence and account for their actions.
It would be too easy to try to forget about this - try to imagine it never happened - enjoy life, have a holiday, go to the pub (if that's the kind of thing you like). I've said repeatedly the mental health recovery needs the same time and resources as the vaccination programme but I see little sign anyone in Government is willing to confront the mental health damage of Covid.
We need to pause and remember the dead and those for whom Covid-19 has caused permanent health damage. The very first thing we must do is plan properly so that IF this happens again we'll be much better prepared.
By the time Covid is over there will be well over 100,000 deaths from the virus, many more tens of thousands will die because the overwhelmed NHS could not treat their cancer or other life-threatening condition. Many hundreds of thousands more will have suffered serious illness but recovered. And many more will have spent a year or more cowering at home, desperately worried that venturing to the supermarket might lead to them contracting a fatal disease. All these people have relatives and friends - the number of those will run into millions.
These people will not forget, there will be survivors and relatives' groups that will pursue Johnson and the Tories for the rest of their lives. I will be one of them - my sister's partner died of Covid last week aged 69 only 4 days after first becoming ill. She is devastated and I am furious.
Thousands of people have died unnecessarily because Johnson and his crew of indolent clowns allowed the virus to get out of control THREE TIMES by deliberately closing their eyes to the facts and giving credence to the motley crew of scientific and political cranks who inhabit the columns of the Daily Mail and the Tory backbenches.
Those of us who have lost family members will never forgive and never allow Johnson and the Tories to forget. Never
Does American Thinker hope to fend off Dominion with that?
If I were Dominion's board I would press on and sue them to bankruptcy. The reputational damage caused by the slurs in AT and other outlets is not going to be wiped clean by an apology.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
Senior councillors and Bath MP Wera Hobhouse were among the objectors to EE and 3’s application to upgrade a 15-metre mast that has been in place since 2006.
I'd be interested to hear about the debate, if anyone was warching it. The emphasis on *formal* minutes is suggestive.
It's thought to be quite common for councillors who object to an application on grounds that are not considered relevant to cast around for an objection that can be sustained. I have no idea if that happened here, but more than formal minutes are needed to make it clear.
You can watch it yourself, if you don’t mind eight hours of Zoom:
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
Not exactly the one thing. The UK is testing over 600k people a day. That is impressive. It has been a leader in the development of the vaccine. Impressive. It is doing 40% of COVID genomic sequencing in the world. That is fucking impressive. It leads in evolutionary mapping of viruses, period, and with that sequencing stat, of COVID evolutionary mapping in particular.
The pervasive negativity of the bulk of posters on this site remind me of one of the great things about living in the US - optimism and belief engendering positivity.
If you think people are negative on here about the governments handling....have you watched the news channels or read the papers...you would think the UK was the worst in the world from testing to death rates.
Vaccines, testing, genomic sequencing: Britain has first class in these.
Economic impact: Bottom quartile at best.
Death rates: Amongst the worst.
A mixed bag at best.
The latter two very much depend on the first, if the UK is out of lockdown with the nation immunised by July then it's a game changer. Literally we'll recover very quickly from this current shite as everything begins to reopen and investors get some certainty over what the UK economy will look like in the near term. On deaths, sadly it's a marathon not a sprint. As above if everyone is immunised by July the deaths drop to almost zero, it's the defining facror of our aggressive rollout plan by risk of death and hospitalisation. The UK could be in a position where daily COVID deaths are in double figures within 6-8 weeks, I don't think any comparably sized country will be in that position.
The government has bet the farm on vaccines, it may or may not work out, but if it does then it will, in relative terms, make the UK performance look a lot better than it actually has been.
And one of the main reasons the UK's economy is harder hit than most others is that it is so focussed on the service sector. My understanding is that, generally around the world, manufacturing and resource extraction have not been as hard hit as the service sector. So it stands to reason that the UK economy, as one of the most service-dependent economies in the world, would be amongst the hardest hit, regardless of government responses.
Senior councillors and Bath MP Wera Hobhouse were among the objectors to EE and 3’s application to upgrade a 15-metre mast that has been in place since 2006.
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
On a point of order:
They actually voted him out *before* victory in World War II. The election was on the 5th July and Japan surrendered on the 15th August.
As I recall, Betfair was still offering 1.02 on an Axis victory at the time.
Comments
https://twitter.com/davidgauke/status/1350144130261934083?s=21
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
This afternoon, driving home from school, I was behind a car which advertised its driver Rob’s business.
Unfortunately, due to a certain lack, it declared the nature of that business was ‘robs taxis.’
I can imagine it could be a lucrative business to arrange robbing taxi's you get 100£ from it they get cctv images of their taxi being robbed and claim it was 200£ profit all round
He'd have probably fucked up the vaccine procurement on top of all the shit Boris has got wrong.
https://twitter.com/CllrDineRomero/status/1343545736072458242/photo/1
Still it is isn't as bad as adding an apostrophe where no apostrophe belongs.
We would now all be getting the Russian vaccine.
So he’s doubly damned...
He's a fairly extreme Trump supporter.
And then there's Gordon Brittas
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
The problem is I suppose once you start on a list like this, where do you stop?
IIRC he reckons it happens in your early 60s, if not sooner.
The pervasive negativity of the bulk of posters on this site remind me of one of the great things about living in the US - optimism and belief engendering positivity.
We never had that level of serious lockdown, and we also don't have the advantage of having cities that are as far apart as London and Helsinki.
Returning life to normal - absent a vaccine - requires a willingness to completely shut the economy for eight to twelve weeks. You need to manage it until you've had a week or 10 days, with no cases whatsoever. And then you need to quarantine all travellers for two weeks upon entry.
This is what Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong and China have done.
And even this hasn't been perfect: they've all had outbreaks that have necessitated mini (total) lockdowns.
Legally I am not her carer, there is no point as I earn too much to gain any benefit from the effort of the paperwork.
It worries me like hell that even a few days in hospital (I'm 45 years old) would lead to tremendous problems in terms of how my wife would be looked after.
I don't expect to get a vaccine until almost at the end of the list.
Seems eerily prophetic now.
One of the Chinese ones claimed 70 odd percent and in Brazil they only found it to be about 50%.
It's thought to be quite common for councillors who object to an application on grounds that are not considered relevant to cast around for an objection that can be sustained. I have no idea if that happened here, but more than formal minutes are needed to make it clear.
They actually voted him out *before* victory in World War II. The election was on the 5th July and Japan surrendered on the 15th August.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1350198627008970755/photo/1
You can't compare Covid-19 to World War 1 - seriously, you can't. The UK lost about 1 million dead in a four year period (and there weren't so many of us at the time). It was true most people knew a family who had lost a son or husband or father. The numbers of names on local war memorials around England are always larger for WW1 than for WW2.
Many people will not have been touched directly by Covid. My brother had it and has survived - apart from one work colleague he is the only person I know who has had it.
You are right there is a desire to return to something like normal except it won't be the same. Working at Home is here to stay - the morning commute on a crowded train or bus or in a traffic jam doesn't have the appeal it once did. Online shopping and home deliveries are here to stay. Jobs lost aren't going to be rescued.
Politics was fundamentally altered by WW1 - it ended the Liberal Party and enabled the rise of Labour who, let's not forget, formed a minority Government in 1923, something unthinkable before 1914. The UK wasn't the same - Ireland would leave as a direct result of WW1.
I'm not prepared to join the triumphalism for this Government if it gets the vaccination programme right. Too many other mistakes have been made - not closing the borders, the treatment of care home residents discharged with the virus from hospitals. There needs to be a full and proper independent public enquiry to which ALL Ministers (including the Prime Minister) should be compelled to give evidence and account for their actions.
It would be too easy to try to forget about this - try to imagine it never happened - enjoy life, have a holiday, go to the pub (if that's the kind of thing you like). I've said repeatedly the mental health recovery needs the same time and resources as the vaccination programme but I see little sign anyone in Government is willing to confront the mental health damage of Covid.
We need to pause and remember the dead and those for whom Covid-19 has caused permanent health damage. The very first thing we must do is plan properly so that IF this happens again we'll be much better prepared.
But yes, it could go that way. This is a once-in-a-century event. We are all predicting in the dark
Economic impact: Bottom quartile at best.
Death rates: Amongst the worst.
A mixed bag at best.
It appears that, as with many other things, the Trump administration had shit the bed on this one.
CPAP masks from the ventalitor challenge....another cookie.
PPE first wave, bung your mates contracts, replace man from delmonte with Harding, not closing the sodding border..bad.
So while the explanation may be true, it isn't proof the reports are definitely untrue, since if 'many' of those objecting did so because of 5G concerns, the councillors may well have sought to refuse on their behalf, and just sought out a reason that could be defended. NickPalmer lays out that very point more concisely.
Bottom line, Hobhouse has opened the door to such accusations, with potential blowback to her party, because she appears to have been either a fruitcake, or a lazy coward. Her colleagues locally, if they do not give in the same (and in my experience local councillors are less silly than MPs on such matters), should be mad at her.
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
The government has bet the farm on vaccines, it may or may not work out, but if it does then it will, in relative terms, make the UK performance look a lot better than it actually has been.
My experience over the last 20 years are the people who socialise at the office tends to be senior staff networking, coincidentally we have a lot here compared to the average population. Most below middle management and the very young go to work then go home straight after. We don't really want to get to know our colleagues that well as we know we will change job in a couple of years for a payrise or promotion as we won't get one here
However, the immediate impact of Covid on *everybody* has been much greater than the impact of the First World War, or indeed the following flu pandemic. There were nothing like so many restrictions in either world war as there have been in the country over the last ten months.
As for statistics, it seems likely Covid will end up causing about a third of the number of fatalities of a four year war in twelve months. So again, I’m not convinced by your reasoning. One difference of course is that in war the casualties are disproportionately fit young men so the shock if not the grief is greater.
https://twitter.com/BinkleyOnStyle/status/1350198267636682753
That was the rather disgusted reaction of a friend of mine (now dead) serving in the Far East. On an announcement being made of VE Day, he and all his shipmates shouted very loudly, in unison, ‘so fucking what?’
I'm with TSE here. Anyone who misuse's apostrohpe's is the pit's.
So it's not always a guess. Hideous pandemics - and the associating lockdowns. quarantines, etc - are actually quite easy to predict, once you crunch the numbers of the initial infection. Plagues follow a model. This is presumably why epidemiology attracts mathematicians.
What is almost impossible to predict is the social, political and economic consequences of a pandemic. Too many human imponderables.
The other point that m,ight be made is that the 1918-19 Flu was just as much a part of WW1 as trench foot or typhus on the Eastern Front. So perhaps its deaths out to be counted in ... they certainly seem to have blurred in the collective memory.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
My point still stands though.
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
https://www.ft.com/content/def33cfe-45c7-4323-bd08-d4fc42051f09
https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1350170423602896896?s=21
Combined with a Pfzier slowdown, this is going to be a shit show.
"Up to"
"may"
"research that questions official data".
These people will not forget, there will be survivors and relatives' groups that will pursue Johnson and the Tories for the rest of their lives. I will be one of them - my sister's partner died of Covid last week aged 69 only 4 days after first becoming ill. She is devastated and I am furious.
Thousands of people have died unnecessarily because Johnson and his crew of indolent clowns allowed the virus to get out of control THREE TIMES by deliberately closing their eyes to the facts and giving credence to the motley crew of scientific and political cranks who inhabit the columns of the Daily Mail and the Tory backbenches.
Those of us who have lost family members will never forgive and never allow Johnson and the Tories to forget. Never
The reality is that that there is a very strong free speech defence. To protect yourself, under it, is relatively easy.
If you simply publish lies about people/companies you are in the shit.
If I were Dominion's board I would press on and sue them to bankruptcy. The reputational damage caused by the slurs in AT and other outlets is not going to be wiped clean by an apology.
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZYpKshknso
It would be lazy to be making allegations about the section that aren’t supported by the minutes, if you can’t be bothered to watch the meeting.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/26/why-would-the-lib-dems-hook-up-with-5g-cranks-it-can-only-be-cowardice