Senior councillors and Bath MP Wera Hobhouse were among the objectors to EE and 3’s application to upgrade a 15-metre mast that has been in place since 2006.
I'd be interested to hear about the debate, if anyone was warching it. The emphasis on *formal* minutes is suggestive.
It's thought to be quite common for councillors who object to an application on grounds that are not considered relevant to cast around for an objection that can be sustained. I have no idea if that happened here, but more than formal minutes are needed to make it clear.
You can watch it yourself, if you don’t mind eight hours of Zoom:
Senior councillors and Bath MP Wera Hobhouse were among the objectors to EE and 3’s application to upgrade a 15-metre mast that has been in place since 2006.
I'd be interested to hear about the debate, if anyone was warching it. The emphasis on *formal* minutes is suggestive.
It's thought to be quite common for councillors who object to an application on grounds that are not considered relevant to cast around for an objection that can be sustained. I have no idea if that happened here, but more than formal minutes are needed to make it clear.
You can watch it yourself, if you don’t mind eight hours of Zoom:
We are now vaccinating at a rate greater than 2 million a week.
Sky News have extrapolated from yesterday's Scottish leak that there will be sufficient doses in the UK by mid July to vaccinate the entire UK population.
Stunning.
Yes. It is pretty much the one thing they have done very well (compare the unfolding shit-parade in the EU)
IF - IF IF IF - they continue to get it right, many if not all of their other major errors will be forgotten, I guess the government knows that, hence the huge emphasis.
Note, also, that if they do get it right, Zahawi will become a hero. Potential PM I reckon
I wouldn't go that far. Still going to have a high death toll which will be constantly brought up, and then we will have the economic fall out for years to come (plus Brexit...insert 1000 Scott n Paste not retweets).
Sure, I said many if not all. Perhaps I should have emphasised the "many".
We are going to have a notably high death toll, and, probably, we will be near the top of the premier league for economic damage as well.
My argument would be: this is so traumatic, on the scale of a World War, all people will care about is escaping the nightmare and leaving it behind. So if the government does well on the vaccine, thus enabling that escape, then that is all that will matter - for a while.
Did death tolls impact politics after World War 1? Yes, but not in a partisan, party-political way. The blame game came decades later, when the pain had drained away, and people started looking at the behaviour of the elite, generals, armies, etc
I am not sure about the WW1 parallels but the British public did famously thank Churchill after victory in WW2 by voting him out.
WW2 was unique in that respect. And Churchill returned to power, a few years later.
But yes, it could go that way. This is a once-in-a-century event. We are all predicting in the dark
Unless you have a time-machine, we are all always predicting in the dark
I was just a lurker then, but I seem to remember some posters predicting that Covid would become an overwhelming global event, back in Feb 2020 - even as the rest of the site scoffed, and wanted to discuss wood burning stoves
So it's not always a guess. Hideous pandemics - and the associating lockdowns. quarantines, etc - are actually quite easy to predict, once you crunch the numbers of the initial infection. Plagues follow a model. This is presumably why epidemiology attracts mathematicians.
What is almost impossible to predict is the social, political and economic consequences of a pandemic. Too many human imponderables.
There was some poetic guy on around that time who told us COVID would be “contagious but benign”. He was right that it was contagious.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
You're in LA. Fly over, and take a walk around London of a winter evening. The dark, silent apartments are obvious, and striking. Many have fled. Shops are shut. Prets are shuttered. They've gone home. It is now really easy to find parking near my flat, when it used to be tricky
It sounds trivial, but it points to quite a significant truth: the population of London has cratered. Of course, all these people might return - or they might not.
All travel corridors closed. Proof of negative test needed on entry to UK.
A mere... 10 months late.
And pointless given that tests with just 80% sensitivity count and a whole load of false negatives. We should have insisted on PCR tests with digital verification and approved agencies. If that means people are unable to come here then that's just tough.
Yeah, didn't realise how shite a "ban" this was when I commented.
It is a "appearance of doing something" action.
Well, it's all confected outrage given that 99% of cases are from domestic transmission. Until we get that under control it's all meaningless.
No it isn't. The new Brazilian variant probably has a diluting effect on vaccine efficacy. Keeping that out of the UK is a necessity until the vaccines can be reformulated to protect us against it and vulnerable people can be be given a booster.
On numbers the whole second wave is down to rubbish quarantine and travel policy. The open border has been a disaster.
Where's your evidence for your assertion in that penultimate sentence?
Open borders and rubbish quarantine undoubtedly played their part, however opening everything up, universities and schools were probably bigger players but then we have shit government by shit people and an even shittier opposition was our choice at the last election.
It was vote would you like to be totally shat on or have the full explosive diahorrhea experience
I'm not sure Corbyn would have given the quality slightly left of centre administration that Ardern in NZ has provided either. He'd have probably fucked up the vaccine procurement on top of all the shit Boris has got wrong.
Corbyn and Milne would have procured the Russian vaccine in large quantities.
And when it didn't arrive.....blame Big Pharma.
It's telling to a spooky spirit like me how much talk there is amongst Tory posters of how bad Corbyn would have been. If none of the real bars have proved low enough for Johnson to clamber over just come up with a lower imaginary one and announce that he's cleared that! Hats off for cunning but not at all convincing.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
Norway adjusts Covid vaccine advice for doctors after admitting they 'cannot rule out' side effects from the jab were behind 23 deaths in 'elderly, frail' patients
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates
Citation needed
cant find the source but this from the independent "Based on what we eat, one big supermarket chain reckons there are 80 million people living in the UK. The demand for food is a reliable indicator; "
In a hundred years' time, 2020-21 will be remembered as the pivotal years when it became clear that the planet was irretrievably fucked on the climate and envirinment front. "Covid" will be a word recognised by historians only.
Sorry. You're normally a sensible poster. This is insane. The pandemic is going to change the world, and will not be forgotten.
Yes, climate change is probably a bigger issue overall. but that's apples and oranges. This is a singular and apocalyptic event compressed into one year.
What you're saying is the equivalent of telling the population of Hiroshima: in the end the rise of technology will change your lives and matter more than the Bomb that just fell on you
Technically and possibly true, but also utterly wrong
The England numbers look like 5,000 got a second vaccination and 275,000 got a first (and presumably for most their only) vaccination.
Getting to 300,000+ UK vaccinations per day is of course welcome.
It will be interesting to see if the weekend numbers are of a similar order - perhaps not this weekend but moving forward. To provide 1.7 million vaccinations per week is excellent.
It may well be we can get to all those over 50 who want a vaccination by the end of March.
What about key workers? Cleaners, supermarket staff, lorry and delivery drivers, and (at risk of special pleading) teachers?
What about carers? Those who are caring for someone sick or disabled at home all the time. If they get sick then social services will be needed.
I haven't seen them mentioned once in all this debate about priorities.
I'm a carer for my 48 year old wife who could never look after herself, post stroke.
Legally I am not her carer, there is no point as I earn too much to gain any benefit from the effort of the paperwork.
It worries me like hell that even a few days in hospital (I'm 45 years old) would lead to tremendous problems in terms of how my wife would be looked after.
I don't expect to get a vaccine until almost at the end of the list.
Your local GP centre needs to know, if they don't know already. Carers such as yourself are eligible for flu vaccines ahead of the general public and there are probably other types of support & support groups available. I would expect this group to come in a little higher than normal for their age etc, in fact the way I read the guidelines I thought this type of carer is included.
Maybe it depends a lot on local policy, but here in Devon they seem to be keen to help carers like yourself as much as possible.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
Think of it the other way round.
Last year, I visited a house - was in the market for a property. A nice road in a leafy suburb. Arrived at the place - a god awful tip.
My suspicions were realised when the genial owner turned out to be the land lord. Slum landlord. Every room had multiple beds in it. Probably 10 people in a 4 bed house.
How many of them do you think were living in anything other than the cash economy?
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates
Citation needed
cant find the source but this from the independent "Based on what we eat, one big supermarket chain reckons there are 80 million people living in the UK. The demand for food is a reliable indicator; "
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
It was apparently more than one source cf the independent article I cited to Mary batty. Yes Asda said 80 mill same article
"I have a second, respectable, source. A major, non-commercial agricultural institution reckons there are 77 million of us in the UK. Again, its reckoning is based on what we eat."
Not to mention having your work and often your place of habitation directed by the Government if you were up to IIRC 64. You could end up anywhere from Scapa Flow to Burma, or shovelling horse manure for grumpy hill farmers, depending on sex and age.
The other point that m,ight be made is that the 1918-19 Flu was just as much a part of WW1 as trench foot or typhus on the Eastern Front. So perhaps its deaths out to be counted in ... they certainly seem to have blurred in the collective memory.
I remember when quite young asking my dad why a WWI war memorial had the dates 1914-19 on it, I think he explained it as actions in Russia being something of a continuation (though officially I believe it was to do with the date of the Treaty of Versailles). I do wonder if the Flu became part of the trauma of of the war in the collective consciousness.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates
Citation needed
cant find the source but this from the independent "Based on what we eat, one big supermarket chain reckons there are 80 million people living in the UK. The demand for food is a reliable indicator; "
Doesn't really seem like an apology cuts it when you've been so knowingly false.
Edit: The reference to 9 journalistic principles is interesting. Is that a standard number of accepted journalistic principles, or are there more but they've only abandoned 9?
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
It was apparently more than one source cf the independent article I cited to Mary batty. Yes Asda said 80 mill same article
"I have a second, respectable, source. A major, non-commercial agricultural institution reckons there are 77 million of us in the UK. Again, its reckoning is based on what we eat."
It's also trivially not true. The ONS publishes data on the total amount of food eaten in the UK every year. Unless average calorie counts have fallen close to 20% (in which case Weight Watchers will be out of busines), then it was simply a made up number to persuade a government regulator.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates
Citation needed
cant find the source but this from the independent "Based on what we eat, one big supermarket chain reckons there are 80 million people living in the UK. The demand for food is a reliable indicator; "
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates
Citation needed
cant find the source but this from the independent "Based on what we eat, one big supermarket chain reckons there are 80 million people living in the UK. The demand for food is a reliable indicator; "
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates
Citation needed
cant find the source but this from the independent "Based on what we eat, one big supermarket chain reckons there are 80 million people living in the UK. The demand for food is a reliable indicator; "
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates
Citation needed
cant find the source but this from the independent "Based on what we eat, one big supermarket chain reckons there are 80 million people living in the UK. The demand for food is a reliable indicator; "
Doesn't look very convincing to me. Off the record supermarket person saying we sell a lot of food? And, what, all the food gets eaten? I'd want to see something a lot more scientific than that. Has someone correlated food sales with food waste? We have a lot of obese people, maybe your neighbour is scoffing 20% too much food. Maybe you are?
Honestly surprised it took this long, given how awful the death numbers have been for over a week - the good vaccine news actually stemmed the tide fo doom porn somewhat.
The UK is set to face short-term delays in delivery of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine as the pharmaceutical company upgrades its production capacity.
Pfizer is upscaling production at its plant in Puurs, Belgium, in efforts to produce more doses than originally planned for 2021 - temporarily reducing deliveries to all European countries.
Shipments of the vaccine, produced in partnership with Germany’s BioNTech, to the UK are set to be affected this month.
The overall number of doses due to be delivered between January and March will remain the same, according to the US firm.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
Think of it the other way round.
Last year, I visited a house - was in the market for a property. A nice road in a leafy suburb. Arrived at the place - a god awful tip.
My suspicions were realised when the genial owner turned out to be the land lord. Slum landlord. Every room had multiple beds in it. Probably 10 people in a 4 bed house.
How many of them do you think were living in anything other than the cash economy?
Of course that happens.
And I'm sure lots of those people aren't counted.
But 10 million people is a lot of people. It's around 17 or 18% of working age adults. One-in-six adults across the UK is not an uncounted migrant living in slum accommodation.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
It was apparently more than one source cf the independent article I cited to Mary batty. Yes Asda said 80 mill same article
"I have a second, respectable, source. A major, non-commercial agricultural institution reckons there are 77 million of us in the UK. Again, its reckoning is based on what we eat."
You have no reason to suppose their methods are scientific or reliable. They're pushing inputs into the system, and relying on WHAT assumptions to decide how much of that input each person eats? That's a really important part of this equation.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
It was apparently more than one source cf the independent article I cited to Mary batty. Yes Asda said 80 mill same article
"I have a second, respectable, source. A major, non-commercial agricultural institution reckons there are 77 million of us in the UK. Again, its reckoning is based on what we eat."
It's also trivially not true. The ONS publishes data on the total amount of food eaten in the UK every year. Unless average calorie counts have fallen close to 20% (in which case Weight Watchers will be out of busines), then it was simply a made up number to persuade a government regulator.
May well be the case. I think the point here though is that we have no reason to trust government figures either given that they have admitted immigration and emigration are estimated by questionairres in a couple of ports and airports. Don't even think about saying census....I havent been on one since a child for example
The UK is set to face short-term delays in delivery of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine as the pharmaceutical company upgrades its production capacity.
Pfizer is upscaling production at its plant in Puurs, Belgium, in efforts to produce more doses than originally planned for 2021 - temporarily reducing deliveries to all European countries.
Shipments of the vaccine, produced in partnership with Germany’s BioNTech, to the UK are set to be affected this month.
The overall number of doses due to be delivered between January and March will remain the same, according to the US firm.
The UK is set to face short-term delays in delivery of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine as the pharmaceutical company upgrades its production capacity.
Pfizer is upscaling production at its plant in Puurs, Belgium, in efforts to produce more doses than originally planned for 2021 - temporarily reducing deliveries to all European countries.
Shipments of the vaccine, produced in partnership with Germany’s BioNTech, to the UK are set to be affected this month.
The overall number of doses due to be delivered between January and March will remain the same, according to the US firm.
Pfizer say only next week will be effected. Back to normal after that. Good job UK already has 5m doses.
In a hundred years' time, 2020-21 will be remembered as the pivotal years when it became clear that the planet was irretrievably fucked on the climate and envirinment front. "Covid" will be a word recognised by historians only.
Sorry. You're normally a sensible poster. This is insane. The pandemic is going to change the world, and will not be forgotten.
Yes, climate change is probably a bigger issue overall. but that's apples and oranges. This is a singular and apocalyptic event compressed into one year.
What you're saying is the equivalent of telling the population of Hiroshima: in the end the rise of technology will change your lives and matter more than the Bomb that just fell on you
Technically and possibly true, but also utterly wrong
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates
Citation needed
cant find the source but this from the independent "Based on what we eat, one big supermarket chain reckons there are 80 million people living in the UK. The demand for food is a reliable indicator; "
Yes, it was an estimate from a supermarket lobbying the Competition Authority.
And it's still bullshit.
I'd leave it to others to interrogate the idea with more scientific rigour, if necessary, but it's one of those claims that seems wrong on the face of it instantly - there'd surely be a whole bunch of other indicators, far more noticable, if there were more than 10 million more people in the country than we thought there were.
There's just no way everyone else is so bad at spotting the true number.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
Think of it the other way round.
Last year, I visited a house - was in the market for a property. A nice road in a leafy suburb. Arrived at the place - a god awful tip.
My suspicions were realised when the genial owner turned out to be the land lord. Slum landlord. Every room had multiple beds in it. Probably 10 people in a 4 bed house.
How many of them do you think were living in anything other than the cash economy?
Of course that happens.
And I'm sure lots of those people aren't counted.
But 10 million people is a lot of people. It's around 17 or 18% of working age adults. One-in-six adults across the UK is not an uncounted migrant living in slum accommodation.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
Think of it the other way round.
Last year, I visited a house - was in the market for a property. A nice road in a leafy suburb. Arrived at the place - a god awful tip.
My suspicions were realised when the genial owner turned out to be the land lord. Slum landlord. Every room had multiple beds in it. Probably 10 people in a 4 bed house.
How many of them do you think were living in anything other than the cash economy?
Of course that happens.
And I'm sure lots of those people aren't counted.
But 10 million people is a lot of people. It's around 17 or 18% of working age adults. One-in-six adults across the UK is not an uncounted migrant living in slum accommodation.
I don't think there are 10 million extra.
But these are people who are taking quite some effort not to appear in official figures. Since we haven't connected all the systems in the style of Minority Report... have they ever been noticed by the Government?
The UK is set to face short-term delays in delivery of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine as the pharmaceutical company upgrades its production capacity.
Pfizer is upscaling production at its plant in Puurs, Belgium, in efforts to produce more doses than originally planned for 2021 - temporarily reducing deliveries to all European countries.
Shipments of the vaccine, produced in partnership with Germany’s BioNTech, to the UK are set to be affected this month.
The overall number of doses due to be delivered between January and March will remain the same, according to the US firm.
The UK is set to face short-term delays in delivery of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine as the pharmaceutical company upgrades its production capacity.
Pfizer is upscaling production at its plant in Puurs, Belgium, in efforts to produce more doses than originally planned for 2021 - temporarily reducing deliveries to all European countries.
Shipments of the vaccine, produced in partnership with Germany’s BioNTech, to the UK are set to be affected this month.
The overall number of doses due to be delivered between January and March will remain the same, according to the US firm.
Pfizer say only next week will be effected. Back to normal after that. Good job UK already has 5m doses.
Pretty impressive turnaround for their production upscaling.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
The other issue I had with it was that it didn't look at how many of the people who have left will come back from April onwards once everything starts returning to normal.
Dept Health & Social Care Written Question, 30/11/2020
"To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, if he will make it his policy to (a) publish a plan for the functioning of competent authorities to reconcile the public health and environmental effects of 5G technologies and (b) consult on that plan before the European Electronic Communications Code 2018 is transposed into UK law."
(Source: Hansard)
Why was Wera busy asking "competent authorities to reconcile the public health and environmental effects of 5G Technologies" on 30./11/2020 ?
The question seeks to cast doubt on the competence of the public health authorities and scaremongering about possible health effects of 5G technologies.
Brittas on travel corridors: "right step, but slow again"
"The measures the Prime Minister has announced are the right measures."
While Starmer is clearly sub-Corbyn useless, the Chris Barrie character reference is as poor as Starmer undoubtedly is
Yes, I think the frequent references to Gordon Brittas by a handful of posters are tiresome (and rather childish, even).
This forum is a bit cliquey at times. New posters, or those who visit infrequently, wouldn't, I suspect, understand the reference.
It's the new Keith Starmer which was a rip roaring success.
Well at least we know who that refers to. Gordon Brittas? I'd never heard of him. Suggests a bit of a struggle to land heavy gloves on Keith Keir.
Once you have heard the voice / tone of both, its immediately obvious. They also look a bit alike.
Chris Barrie sounds nothing like Sir Keir!
But his character Gordon Brittas does!
It's a fine parallel. On the one hand, you have a pious, nasal busybody with delusions of grandeur that all go horribly wrong.
And then there's Gordon Brittas
Brittas used to all bang on about his grandiose dream of world peace, global harmony, etc via the work of the leisure centre...but never spelt out how he would ever achieve it.
The only resemblance is that both The Brittas Empire and Keir Starmer are both tedious and best forgotten.
Doesn't really seem like an apology cuts it when you've been so knowingly false.
Edit: The reference to 9 journalistic principles is interesting. Is that a standard number of accepted journalistic principles, or are there more but they've only abandoned 9?
After you've abandoned the principle that says: "We must not publish false statements that have no basis in fact" are any other principles worth worrying about?
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
Think of it the other way round.
Last year, I visited a house - was in the market for a property. A nice road in a leafy suburb. Arrived at the place - a god awful tip.
My suspicions were realised when the genial owner turned out to be the land lord. Slum landlord. Every room had multiple beds in it. Probably 10 people in a 4 bed house.
How many of them do you think were living in anything other than the cash economy?
Of course that happens.
And I'm sure lots of those people aren't counted.
But 10 million people is a lot of people. It's around 17 or 18% of working age adults. One-in-six adults across the UK is not an uncounted migrant living in slum accommodation.
No, you really CAN compare Covid to WW1. Covid has caused, tangentially, the crucial surge of China as supreme power, over the USA. It has diminished the UK population by an estimated 1.3m, in a year. It will kill millions around the world (and it is not over yet). It is toppling governments across the planet. It is causing economic slumps BIGGER than those experienced in WW1, or indeed WW2
It is epochal. It could forever change the way we live, as commuters and workers. It is traumatising billions of people.
It is, also, everywhere, in a way that even the Great War wasn't. It is ravaging South Africa, Peru, India and Brazil. It was culpable in the Storming of the Capitol. Everyone around the planet will remember it for the rest of their lives.
World War is, sadly, a very apt comparison.
I'm sorry but wrong again.
First, the rise of China - it was happening anyway. Has it been accelerated by Trump's disastrous response to Covid? Maybe but the big change Covid has brought is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election. That will have bigger impacts so I'll accept tangentially but no more.
Second, can you evidence the claim the UK population has been reduced by 1.3 million in a year - Covid has taken 100,000 lives at most.
Third - "toppling Governments across the planet". Really? Trump is on his way out, yes but many other incumbent Governments have done well out of Covid and have strengthened their positions.
Fourth - "economic slumps" - well, yes, to a point but the recovery will likely be pretty dramatic and while there is going to be a lot of suffering, don't forget a lot of middle-class home-based office workers have carried on being paid and will have money to spend this year. One might argue the impacts of Brexit need to be factored in to this as well.
Fifth - yes, it could well change how we live (I think I said that). I think I also said the mental health impacts weren't being adequately addressed so thanks for agreeing with me - it's always welcome to see the penny dropping.
Sixth - I'd also argue the impact of WW1 was felt far beyond the battle fronts and the combatants. Neither Australia nor New Zealand saw war on their shores but they remember its effects in the annual ANZAC day celebration. There were military losses in South Africa and India in WW1 as well.
Seventh - will it be remembered? I remember last spring one of the now banned posters putting up some numbers on the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 which killed up to 4 million globally and claiming life didn't stop and no one got locked down because of it.
I'd argue Covid has shown the power of human ingenuity - within barely a year of the outbreak we have a number of vaccines out there being administered. There is very little human beings cannot achieve once we set our minds to it. That's the positive I take out of this not the achievements of one Government or one country.
Ludicrous. I will address just one point
"Up to 1.3m may have left in past 12 months, according to research that questions official data"
and as we dont actually have an idea how many people are here in the first place or how many leave its about as official as its ever going to get.
Let us remember that supermarkets estimate our population as 10 million higher than official estimates based on how much they sell and our official estimates are based upon a guy with a clipboard based in a couple of places asking people where they come from or and if they are coming to stay.....what could possibly go wrong
That last point is not really true - or more accurately is a single comment taken rather out of context.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
Think of it the other way round.
Last year, I visited a house - was in the market for a property. A nice road in a leafy suburb. Arrived at the place - a god awful tip.
My suspicions were realised when the genial owner turned out to be the land lord. Slum landlord. Every room had multiple beds in it. Probably 10 people in a 4 bed house.
How many of them do you think were living in anything other than the cash economy?
Of course that happens.
And I'm sure lots of those people aren't counted.
But 10 million people is a lot of people. It's around 17 or 18% of working age adults. One-in-six adults across the UK is not an uncounted migrant living in slum accommodation.
I don't think there are 10 million extra.
But these are people who are taking quite some effort not to appear in official figures. Since we haven't connected all the systems in the style of Minority Report... have they ever been noticed by the Government?
Golden-horned unicorns are also quite shy. For years now, the government has denied there are any at all. But the number of pineapply pizzas sold by Dominos just cannot be accounted for by the number of humans who would eat such a thing.
In a hundred years' time, 2020-21 will be remembered as the pivotal years when it became clear that the planet was irretrievably fucked on the climate and envirinment front. "Covid" will be a word recognised by historians only.
If the planet is “irretrievably fucked” will there be historians?
The UK is set to face short-term delays in delivery of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine as the pharmaceutical company upgrades its production capacity.
Pfizer is upscaling production at its plant in Puurs, Belgium, in efforts to produce more doses than originally planned for 2021 - temporarily reducing deliveries to all European countries.
Shipments of the vaccine, produced in partnership with Germany’s BioNTech, to the UK are set to be affected this month.
The overall number of doses due to be delivered between January and March will remain the same, according to the US firm.
Good thing we're already working on a 12 week gap and we have a second major vaccine supplier. This is going to create a massive headache for nations expecting to use current supply for second jabs on the 3 week gap.
I've seen some references to the UK reaching 100k deaths soon, and I don't know if anyone else is calculating it this way, but I think we reach the landmark of 100k confirmed deaths in tomorrow's figures.
Here, I'm combining two non-overlapping sets of the government's figures:
- The 89243 COVID on death certificate figure to Jan 1st. - The 10514 deaths within 28 days of COVID recorded for dates of death from Jan 2nd inclusive.
Which puts us on 99757 overall today. Whenever it comes it is a sombre landmark.
The UK is set to face short-term delays in delivery of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine as the pharmaceutical company upgrades its production capacity.
Pfizer is upscaling production at its plant in Puurs, Belgium, in efforts to produce more doses than originally planned for 2021 - temporarily reducing deliveries to all European countries.
Shipments of the vaccine, produced in partnership with Germany’s BioNTech, to the UK are set to be affected this month.
The overall number of doses due to be delivered between January and March will remain the same, according to the US firm.
Not just the UK, but all European governments it seems (including non-EU Norway).
Comments
These look like a bunch of Lib Dems to me. Currently Lib Dems are on nobody's most wanted list. Sadly for them.
It sounds trivial, but it points to quite a significant truth: the population of London has cratered. Of course, all these people might return - or they might not.
A supermarket (Asda, I think) was engaged in buying another. The Competition Authority said it was worried about market concentration in the grocery business, and they responded that they hadn't really gained market share from small grocers and that the market might be larger due to there being lots more people in the UK.
Independent grocers responses to the inquiry were that this was simply untrue, and that the predatory pricing practices of the big supermarkets had led to them losing market share.
If there really were 15% more people in the UK than people think, then we'd see it in lots of ways - VAT receipts would be the most obvious, but you could add things like school and hospital usage.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9151341/Norway-adjusts-advice-vaccine-deaths-isnt-alarmed.html
Lots of coulds and maybes.
"Based on what we eat, one big supermarket chain reckons there are 80 million people living in the UK. The demand for food is a reliable indicator; "
source https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/city-eye-facts-plate-our-population-least-77-million-5328454.html
https://twitter.com/NewYorkStateAG/status/1350199191440674816
Basically they can't move to Texas until everything in New York is settled..
Yes, climate change is probably a bigger issue overall. but that's apples and oranges. This is a singular and apocalyptic event compressed into one year.
What you're saying is the equivalent of telling the population of Hiroshima: in the end the rise of technology will change your lives and matter more than the Bomb that just fell on you
Technically and possibly true, but also utterly wrong
Maybe it depends a lot on local policy, but here in Devon they seem to be keen to help carers like yourself as much as possible.
Good evening, everyone.
Last year, I visited a house - was in the market for a property. A nice road in a leafy suburb. Arrived at the place - a god awful tip.
My suspicions were realised when the genial owner turned out to be the land lord. Slum landlord. Every room had multiple beds in it. Probably 10 people in a 4 bed house.
How many of them do you think were living in anything other than the cash economy?
And it's still bullshit.
"I have a second, respectable, source. A major, non-commercial agricultural institution reckons there are 77 million of us in the UK. Again, its reckoning is based on what we eat."
Edit: The reference to 9 journalistic principles is interesting. Is that a standard number of accepted journalistic principles, or are there more but they've only abandoned 9?
And, what, all the food gets eaten? I'd want to see something a lot more scientific than that. Has someone correlated food sales with food waste? We have a lot of obese people, maybe your neighbour is scoffing 20% too much food. Maybe you are?
Pfizer is upscaling production at its plant in Puurs, Belgium, in efforts to produce more doses than originally planned for 2021 - temporarily reducing deliveries to all European countries.
Shipments of the vaccine, produced in partnership with Germany’s BioNTech, to the UK are set to be affected this month.
The overall number of doses due to be delivered between January and March will remain the same, according to the US firm.
And I'm sure lots of those people aren't counted.
But 10 million people is a lot of people. It's around 17 or 18% of working age adults. One-in-six adults across the UK is not an uncounted migrant living in slum accommodation.
There's just no way everyone else is so bad at spotting the true number.
But these are people who are taking quite some effort not to appear in official figures. Since we haven't connected all the systems in the style of Minority Report... have they ever been noticed by the Government?
The other issue I had with it was that it didn't look at how many of the people who have left will come back from April onwards once everything starts returning to normal.
Dept Health & Social Care Written Question, 30/11/2020
"To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, if he will make it his policy to (a) publish a plan for the functioning of competent authorities to reconcile the public health and environmental effects of 5G technologies and (b) consult on that plan before the European Electronic Communications Code 2018 is transposed into UK law."
(Source: Hansard)
Why was Wera busy asking "competent authorities to reconcile the public health and environmental effects of 5G Technologies" on 30./11/2020 ?
The question seeks to cast doubt on the competence of the public health authorities and scaremongering about possible health effects of 5G technologies.
Here, I'm combining two non-overlapping sets of the government's figures:
- The 89243 COVID on death certificate figure to Jan 1st.
- The 10514 deaths within 28 days of COVID recorded for dates of death from Jan 2nd inclusive.
Which puts us on 99757 overall today. Whenever it comes it is a sombre landmark.