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Joe Biden responds to the dramatic events in Washington – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,553

    So have they all dispersed ? The flow of information seems to have slowed.

    CNN showing crowds who were gathered outside being dispersed. No news on inside so far i think.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    I dont see how Biden can be inaugurated in such a public place now. Clearly a massive massive risk.

    I had thought the actual inauguration took place privately, and then they did the whole thing again in the big ceremony.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,838

    Sorry to be Mr Happy Fun Guy but there's some other issues as well.

    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1346933766082580480

    I realise it's a staff problem, not a capacity problem, but if this is true it looks like the Nightingale at the Excel will have to be used.
  • An argument about whether a breakaway state is or isn't a foreign power isn't really for today.

    Basic point though. Insurrectionist waving the flag of a breakaway state who waged civil war against the US Army in the heart of the US government isn't who I would expect the US president to declare his love for.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    He's not wrong. We've got a countdown to June Slack channel for when we're reopening the office. It's basically turned into officebants the channel and the post work drinking channel. Our sysadmin has said it's become the most high volume channel since it opened.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    Foxy said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1346915116424585220?s=19

    It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.

    We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.

    Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?

    No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812
    Pulpstar said:

    Not right now Boris. Not in the absolute height of a pandemic, we can work from home for a bit..
    I'm hearing that London hospitals are certain to be overwhelmed very shortly.
  • Hey I didn't make the rules. Its the Yanks that wanted to call it a Civil War. I would have called it a revolution but that would have tarnished the first one. :) And as someone has already pointed out, it was because they wouldn't let the South be a foreign power that they had the war.

    Hey I got my argument! . Cool :)
    If you want to have a proper argument about the Civil War, there's a legal argument no state has the right or ability to secede from the United States of America.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    An argument about whether a breakaway state is or isn't a foreign power isn't really for today.

    Basic point though. Insurrectionist waving the flag of a breakaway state who waged civil war against the US Army in the heart of the US government isn't who I would expect the US president to declare his love for.

    Yeah fair point(s)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    IshmaelZ said:

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
    1 is utterly plausible.
    2 is regrettably slightly plausible
    3 is within the realm of possibility, technically, but a damn strange thing to do given Trump would be out of office in 2 weeks anyway.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    What's going on , currently ?
    Loads of police pushing crowds away from capital

    Reports some people still in capital
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited January 2021
    Is it the indoor who are the hardcore , and particulaly dangerous "vanguard" who are still there, and the outdoor who have been dispersed ? Trying to get a picture of what's going on.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296

    Sorry to be Mr Happy Fun Guy but there's some other issues as well.

    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1346933766082580480

    "At one point it was claimed this could be “super surged” much further – to at least double this – but it is unclear if that was truly possible. It would require radical dilution of staffing and standards of care."

    Presumably the choice will end up being a radical dilution of staffing and standards of care for everyone needing ICU or some who need it just being left to die. I'd expect the former to be adopted.

    Grim times ahead.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Pulpstar said:

    Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
    Close the borders completely. Stay at home orders for everyone for two weeks. Only exemption is for medical appointments and food deliveries with food supply chain workers given full hazmat suits. We can't let the SA variant take hold here.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,942

    You did notice the words 'once the Covid pandemic is over', right?
    Obviously not.
    Much less stupid then...But not necessarily correct.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,224
    Charles said:

    Confederacy yes. Oops.

    Interesting philosophical question.

    The Confederacy thought they were a foreign power, if the Union had agreed it would have been a peaceful split.

    So there was only a war because the Confederacy wasn’t a foreign power?
    Lincoln's view (Which became the general Union approach) was that the Confederacy *wasn't* a foreign power - further that the actual states hadn't left the union, just that some people had committed insurection. They considered the Confederacy an insurrection *inside* the United States.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    James Delingpole has re-tweeted claims that the people storming Congress are actually BLM supporters.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    dixiedean said:

    Obviously not.
    Much less stupid then...But not necessarily correct.
    It's just the Telegraph being rubbish, as they too often are these days.
  • I'm being Mr Happy Fun Guy again, but this is from a former US Intelligence analyst, who specialises in domestic terrorism.

    https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance/status/1346923695755943938
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,838
    Pulpstar said:

    Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
    It's not new news. This has been the argument against splitting the doses for longer from day one. However, the decision to do so is based on a large number of factors. Let us hope that as AZN supplies come online, we can secure more Pfizer and those who've had their first dose will get the second sooner than is currently envisaged.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296
    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    MaxPB said:

    He's not wrong. We've got a countdown to June Slack channel for when we're reopening the office. It's basically turned into officebants the channel and the post work drinking channel. Our sysadmin has said it's become the most high volume channel since it opened.
    Yeah, I’m keen to get back in a couple of days a week. I am bored with the same four walls every day have come to loathe Zoom etc and miss just having a chat. When in town, I’ll be making full use of the eateries and hostelries to interact more.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited January 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Close the borders completely. Stay at home orders for everyone for two weeks. Only exemption is for medical appointments and food deliveries with food supply chain workers given full hazmat suits. We can't let the SA variant take hold here.
    Close the borders? In the middle of a pandemic? Madness. Who could contemplate the most utterly extreme measure?

    Next you'll be saying there won't be any exemptions for skiing holidays!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    Yes, but he clearly is capable of discharging his powers and responsibilities.

    I think impeachment rather than incapability is the appropriate process.
    He is as capable as he always was - i.e. not. But it's not through insanity or mental frailty. It's character and personality.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746
    edited January 2021

    Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. To quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,

    "A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."

    Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
    I think that’s the reason oaths of office in the US contain a vow to protect the US and it’s Constitution from enemies “foreign and domestic” (or words to that effect). Whether regarded as foreign or domestic it was an enemy to the US constitution and its flag thus an enemy flag.
  • Andy_JS said:

    James Delingpole has re-tweeted claims that the people storming Congress are actually BLM supporters.

    Well, I guess it's only one step further than saying that tonight was caused by BLM protests.
  • Has to be said that I have found this week to be Quite Hard. A horrible sense of deja vu, lockdown, kids being home schooled, pox running riot. I've had some entertaining and very vivid dreams which I can remember days later - which is unusual!

    So as horrifying as the scenes in Washington are it is providing a welcome distraction. Only America can be as unhinged as this. Land of the Free indeed...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,796

    To be honest everyone on this forum and throughout the UK should unite across the political divide and utterly condemn the sickening and tragic events promoted by the sick and destructive Donald Trump, who should have no place to hide and musr be forcefully removed, charged and imprisoned for as far as I am concerned life

    You realise however that america turning into an even more lawless shithole is probably good for the uk?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,567
    Scott_xP said:
    Oh, Lord, that's tickled me.

    Of course a million angry Yorkshiremen marching on parliament demanding their rights could be easily stopped in their tracks by a single builder's quote.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,463
    Did I mishear or have they just appointed as chairman of the BBC a banker who has donated £400,000 to the Tory Party?

    Pass the sick bag Maud...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,553

    I'm being Mr Happy Fun Guy again, but this is from a former US Intelligence analyst, who specialises in domestic terrorism.

    https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance/status/1346923695755943938

    As I said earlier my fear is Trump declares some kind of emergency or martial law in the chaos.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    If you want to have a proper argument about the Civil War, there's a legal argument no state has the right or ability to secede from the United States of America.
    Not exactly. SCOTUS ruled after the war that no state can unilaterally secede. It would appear that a state can secede by agreement with the federal government. It's unclear if a state can be expelled from the Union, but maybe we should try to find out.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    Roger said:

    Did I mishear or have they just appointed as chairman of the BBC a banker who has donated £400,000 to the Tory Party?

    Pass the sick bag Maud...

    Our homegrown pork barrel and incompetence seems terribly quaint this evening.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746
    Andy_JS said:

    James Delingpole has re-tweeted claims that the people storming Congress are actually BLM supporters.

    It does show that he realises that these insurrectionists dun a wrong thing and a is trying to deflect the blame lest he gets banned from going to the US every again.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812
    Andy_JS said:

    James Delingpole has re-tweeted claims that the people storming Congress are actually BLM supporters.

    Please (!) say you've got that second hand not direct.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Curfew also for Arlington
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    The regime is in its death throes, only a little bit longer.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,269
    MaxPB said:

    Close the borders completely. Stay at home orders for everyone for two weeks. Only exemption is for medical appointments and food deliveries with food supply chain workers given full hazmat suits. We can't let the SA variant take hold here.
    It is already here.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    1 is utterly plausible.
    2 is regrettably slightly plausible
    3 is within the realm of possibility, technically, but a damn strange thing to do given Trump would be out of office in 2 weeks anyway.
    1 Incompetence is always a possibility, but I have always taken it that the bits of the FBI and Secret Service which defend the US executive were the creme de la creme of security services anywhere in the world

    3 The thinking would be that it heads off an attempt to nuke Iran next week.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    Until recently the governments strategy was to get a trade deal with Trump. A lucky escape.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Oh, Lord, that's tickled me.

    Of course a million angry Yorkshiremen marching on parliament demanding their rights could be easily stopped in their tracks by a single builder's quote.
    OW BLEEDIN MUCH?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    The woman shot has died
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited January 2021

    As I said earlier my fear is Trump declares some kind of emergency or martial law in the chaos.
    It seems as if Pence and others are working together to bypass him, though. Apparently it was Pence who called out the National Guard to the Capitol, which, if I've got it right, seems to have been what stabilised the situation.
  • OW BLEEDIN MUCH?
    I want to be the first Directly Elected Dictator Governor of Yorkshire.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    Foxy said:

    It is already here.
    So Foxy, how fucked are we? When I heard they were having to send critical care patients from Kent to Plymouth, I began to worry.
  • Scott_xP said:
    All rioters should be charged with felony murder.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,553
    Capitol now secure CNN reporting
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,161
    edited January 2021

    I'm being Mr Happy Fun Guy again, but this is from a former US Intelligence analyst, who specialises in domestic terrorism.

    https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance/status/1346923695755943938

    I would find it hard to trust law enforcement if I were a Democrat elected representative now. How many of them are Trump supporters who believe the election was stolen? Probably a majority?

    These mobs could have stormed count centres and burnt postal ballots - and then Biden would have been left high and dry.

    I can't see any way out of this mess.
  • JenSJenS Posts: 91
    Pence has re-set his twitter banner to Biden Harris and reportedly unfollowed Trump. Trump declared war on him, now he is biting back.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751
    DavidL said:

    I disagree. One of the contributors on CNN was spot on. This is either the end of something or the beginning of something. If these people are allowed to walk away and are perceived to get away with this it’s more likely to be a beginning.
    https://twitter.com/shadowfuzz/status/1346928291140263938
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,557
    edited January 2021

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    I think it is widely accepted that the starting pistol for 2021 is Biden's Inauguration, rather than Jools' Hootenanny.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,269
    edited January 2021
    rpjs said:

    Not exactly. SCOTUS ruled after the war that no state can unilaterally secede. It would appear that a state can secede by agreement with the federal government. It's unclear if a state can be expelled from the Union, but maybe we should try to find out.
    I believe that Texas has an exemption, having been an independent Republic for a decade or so, before joining the USA.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,537
    IshmaelZ said:

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
    I always plump for incompetence as my first call.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Foxy said:

    It is already here.
    Hence the countermeasures to stop it having any chance of taking hold like Kent COVID did over a few weeks in October.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359
    JenS said:

    Pence has re-set his twitter banner to Biden Harris and reportedly unfollowed Trump. Trump declared war on him, now he is biting back.

    No, he hasn't.
  • I think it is widely accepted that the starting pistol for 2021 is Biden's Inauguration, rather than Jool's Hootenanny.
    How about we go with Chinese New Year?
  • JenSJenS Posts: 91
    edited January 2021
    Deleted
  • The woman who was shot has sadly died

    Just dreadful
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359
    edited January 2021
    JenS said:

    Pence is following Trump (again?). But the Biden/Harris banner is still there as his Twitter banner.

    Its a photo of him and his wife. Notice the red caps in the audience.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,838
    Jonathan said:

    Until recently the governments strategy was to get a trade deal with Trump. A lucky escape.

    I have a lot of issues with a US trade deal, but this is a reach and a half.
  • JenSJenS Posts: 91
    OK I'll delete
  • https://twitter.com/cevansavenger/status/1346920924310867968

    Looks like Police letting the protestors in. 😲
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Foxy said:

    I believe that Texas has an exemption, having been an independent Republic for a decade or so, before joining the USA.
    Nope, the SCOTUS case that established that was Texas v. White (1868)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    Floater said:

    Loads of police pushing crowds away from capital

    Reports some people still in capital
    Clearing the capital seems a bit extreme, can they not just clear the Capitol?

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    If you want to have a proper argument about the Civil War, there's a legal argument no state has the right or ability to secede from the United States of America.
    Except for Texas
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,838

    The woman who was shot has sadly died

    Just dreadful

    That is extremely sad.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,224
    kinabalu said:

    He is as capable as he always was - i.e. not. But it's not through insanity or mental frailty. It's character and personality.
    It's hard to tell without actually being near him - but his actions *could* add up to mental incapacity.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296
    edited January 2021
    Not sure whether this has been noted amid all this evening's excitement:

    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1346927100402417666?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,553
    Biden certification to be done tonight saying CNN.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    DougSeal said:

    I think that’s the reason oaths of office in the US contain a vow to protect the US and it’s Constitution from enemies “foreign and domestic” (or words to that effect). Whether regarded as foreign or domestic it was an enemy to the US constitution and its flag thus an enemy flag.
    People often swear allegiance to the flag, but that doesn't seem to stop many from preferring another of course.
  • kinabalu said:

    I'm hearing that London hospitals are certain to be overwhelmed very shortly.
    There was a bit of a rush on in Scottish hospitals today, but that was as much due to frosty weather accidents as COVID.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,553

    It would be nice if he'd stick to one consistent message (e.g. yesterday's "Stay home") for, say, a whole sodding week. Is that too much to ask?
    He never ever learns does he.

    I am convinced he will blurt out some rubbish about "saving Easter" next week.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296

    Biden certification to be done tonight saying CNN.

    Good if true.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,188

    That is extremely sad.
    CNN don't have that. Which seems surprising.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012

    Biden certification to be done tonight saying CNN.

    Shouldn't that be Trump's certification?

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited January 2021

    https://twitter.com/cevansavenger/status/1346920924310867968

    Looks like Police letting the protestors in. 😲

    If there really was Police collusion, if Pence hadn't called out the National Guard, literally anything could have happened.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751
    IshmaelZ said:

    Impeachment carries no penalties except removal from office*. It is a complex procedure, and takes time. You wouldn't get 10% of the way through the process by 20 January. This is a nonsense proposal.

    *OK and future disqualification which I suppose helps a bit.
    It’s not nonsense at all, and it doesn’t have to be done by the 20th.
    The point is the disqualification from ever again holding public office.

    Criminal proceedings would be an order of magnitude more fraught with problems, and likely far more protracted.
    Not to impeach would be to normalise what Trump has done - in the same manner he’s been allowed to trash every norm over the last four years, but far more consequentially.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Lincoln's view (Which became the general Union approach) was that the Confederacy *wasn't* a foreign power - further that the actual states hadn't left the union, just that some people had committed insurection. They considered the Confederacy an insurrection *inside* the United States.
    Although my avatar made it even more complicated.

    He was the Whig Governor of Tennessee who was a committed abolitionist. But when the Union invaded Tennessee he fought for the Confederacy on the grounds that he was defending his state from occupation
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296
    Pulpstar said:

    Not right now Boris. Not in the absolute height of a pandemic, we can work from home for a bit..

    How the fuck would he know what people want anyway?
  • DavidL said:

    CNN don't have that. Which seems surprising.
    Sky reported it
  • DavidL said:

    CNN don't have that. Which seems surprising.
    Sky reported it
  • kle4 said:

    People often swear allegiance to the flag, but that doesn't seem to stop many from preferring another of course.
    So many of them swear allegiance to the Confederate Flag. Shouldn't the Union finally take action to ban this symbol of slavery and insurrection?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_xP said:
    Because the Rump Parliament was such a success
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited January 2021

    Not sure whether this has been noted amid all this evening's excitement:

    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1346927100402417666?s=20

    Poor Jon. A historical electoral achievement relegated down the news by epochal chaos.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812
    Jonathan said:

    Until recently the governments strategy was to get a trade deal with Trump. A lucky escape.

    Indeed. TBH this just shows how misguided so many people have been for so long treating this guy as either (I) some sort of "bit of a laugh" pure joke figure or (ii) an authentic if unconventional populist politician.

    One would hope that what he is - vermin - is now clear to all.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,838
    DavidL said:

    CNN don't have that. Which seems surprising.
    If she is still alive, I wish her a speedy recovery.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Sky reported it
    As are American outlets - citing multiple law enforcement sources
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    edited January 2021
    DavidL said:

    I disagree. One of the contributors on CNN was spot on. This is either the end of something or the beginning of something. If these people are allowed to walk away and are perceived to get away with this it’s more likely to be a beginning.
    They absolutely must be punished and swiftly, but I have the nagging worry that that won't be the case. There will be a lot of sorrowful comments from those who tacitly encouraged the mob to act today, particularly as one person has sadly died, but I just cannot believe that. They and millions were practically chomping at the bit for a mob to march on the Capitol, even if they did not technically want there to be violence. They will do mental gymnastics to avoid any blame themselves, and part of that will be to downplay the seriousness of every single person within that mob, of the need to forgive or redeem (which is hard to do if the transgressor faced no consequences) or not escalate or provoke. They won't want to upset Trump, even now. Hopefully law enforcement and prosecutors will not let that stop them.
  • Watching on CNN with large crowds ignoring the curfew and few masks and no social distancing

    One nightmare after another in the US
This discussion has been closed.