An argument about whether a breakaway state is or isn't a foreign power isn't really for today.
Basic point though. Insurrectionist waving the flag of a breakaway state who waged civil war against the US Army in the heart of the US government isn't who I would expect the US president to declare his love for.
He's not wrong. We've got a countdown to June Slack channel for when we're reopening the office. It's basically turned into officebants the channel and the post work drinking channel. Our sysadmin has said it's become the most high volume channel since it opened.
It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.
We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.
Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?
No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?
Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place
1. Utter incompetence 2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians 3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.
Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. TO quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."
Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
The Confederate States of America created their own State Department and tried to send Ambassadors (or Ministers in Residence) to many countries.
Hey I didn't make the rules. Its the Yanks that wanted to call it a Civil War. I would have called it a revolution but that would have tarnished the first one. And as someone has already pointed out, it was because they wouldn't let the South be a foreign power that they had the war.
Hey I got my argument! . Cool
If you want to have a proper argument about the Civil War, there's a legal argument no state has the right or ability to secede from the United States of America.
An argument about whether a breakaway state is or isn't a foreign power isn't really for today.
Basic point though. Insurrectionist waving the flag of a breakaway state who waged civil war against the US Army in the heart of the US government isn't who I would expect the US president to declare his love for.
Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?
No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?
Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place
1. Utter incompetence 2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians 3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.
Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
1 is utterly plausible. 2 is regrettably slightly plausible 3 is within the realm of possibility, technically, but a damn strange thing to do given Trump would be out of office in 2 weeks anyway.
Is it the indoor who are the hardcore , and particulaly dangerous "vanguard" who are still there, and the outdoor who have been dispersed ? Trying to get a picture of what's going on.
"At one point it was claimed this could be “super surged” much further – to at least double this – but it is unclear if that was truly possible. It would require radical dilution of staffing and standards of care."
Presumably the choice will end up being a radical dilution of staffing and standards of care for everyone needing ICU or some who need it just being left to die. I'd expect the former to be adopted.
It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.
We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.
Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
Close the borders completely. Stay at home orders for everyone for two weeks. Only exemption is for medical appointments and food deliveries with food supply chain workers given full hazmat suits. We can't let the SA variant take hold here.
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
Confederacy surely. And (less pedantically) it thought it was, which was even more the point.
Confederacy yes. Oops.
Interesting philosophical question.
The Confederacy thought they were a foreign power, if the Union had agreed it would have been a peaceful split.
So there was only a war because the Confederacy wasn’t a foreign power?
Lincoln's view (Which became the general Union approach) was that the Confederacy *wasn't* a foreign power - further that the actual states hadn't left the union, just that some people had committed insurection. They considered the Confederacy an insurrection *inside* the United States.
It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.
We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.
Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
It's not new news. This has been the argument against splitting the doses for longer from day one. However, the decision to do so is based on a large number of factors. Let us hope that as AZN supplies come online, we can secure more Pfizer and those who've had their first dose will get the second sooner than is currently envisaged.
He's not wrong. We've got a countdown to June Slack channel for when we're reopening the office. It's basically turned into officebants the channel and the post work drinking channel. Our sysadmin has said it's become the most high volume channel since it opened.
Yeah, I’m keen to get back in a couple of days a week. I am bored with the same four walls every day have come to loathe Zoom etc and miss just having a chat. When in town, I’ll be making full use of the eateries and hostelries to interact more.
It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.
We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.
Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
Close the borders completely. Stay at home orders for everyone for two weeks. Only exemption is for medical appointments and food deliveries with food supply chain workers given full hazmat suits. We can't let the SA variant take hold here.
Close the borders? In the middle of a pandemic? Madness. Who could contemplate the most utterly extreme measure?
Next you'll be saying there won't be any exemptions for skiing holidays!
Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.
Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?
It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.
Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
No. It just requires them to think he's incapable of discharging his duties. There is no definition on what makes incapability other than the Veep and a majority of the Cabinet.
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department[note 1] or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.[6]
Yes, but he clearly is capable of discharging his powers and responsibilities.
I think impeachment rather than incapability is the appropriate process.
He is as capable as he always was - i.e. not. But it's not through insanity or mental frailty. It's character and personality.
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. To quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."
Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
I think that’s the reason oaths of office in the US contain a vow to protect the US and it’s Constitution from enemies “foreign and domestic” (or words to that effect). Whether regarded as foreign or domestic it was an enemy to the US constitution and its flag thus an enemy flag.
Has to be said that I have found this week to be Quite Hard. A horrible sense of deja vu, lockdown, kids being home schooled, pox running riot. I've had some entertaining and very vivid dreams which I can remember days later - which is unusual!
So as horrifying as the scenes in Washington are it is providing a welcome distraction. Only America can be as unhinged as this. Land of the Free indeed...
To be honest everyone on this forum and throughout the UK should unite across the political divide and utterly condemn the sickening and tragic events promoted by the sick and destructive Donald Trump, who should have no place to hide and musr be forcefully removed, charged and imprisoned for as far as I am concerned life
You realise however that america turning into an even more lawless shithole is probably good for the uk?
Of course a million angry Yorkshiremen marching on parliament demanding their rights could be easily stopped in their tracks by a single builder's quote.
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. TO quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."
Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
The Confederate States of America created their own State Department and tried to send Ambassadors (or Ministers in Residence) to many countries.
Hey I didn't make the rules. Its the Yanks that wanted to call it a Civil War. I would have called it a revolution but that would have tarnished the first one. And as someone has already pointed out, it was because they wouldn't let the South be a foreign power that they had the war.
Hey I got my argument! . Cool
If you want to have a proper argument about the Civil War, there's a legal argument no state has the right or ability to secede from the United States of America.
Not exactly. SCOTUS ruled after the war that no state can unilaterally secede. It would appear that a state can secede by agreement with the federal government. It's unclear if a state can be expelled from the Union, but maybe we should try to find out.
James Delingpole has re-tweeted claims that the people storming Congress are actually BLM supporters.
It does show that he realises that these insurrectionists dun a wrong thing and a is trying to deflect the blame lest he gets banned from going to the US every again.
It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.
We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.
Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
Close the borders completely. Stay at home orders for everyone for two weeks. Only exemption is for medical appointments and food deliveries with food supply chain workers given full hazmat suits. We can't let the SA variant take hold here.
Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?
No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?
Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place
1. Utter incompetence 2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians 3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.
Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
1 is utterly plausible. 2 is regrettably slightly plausible 3 is within the realm of possibility, technically, but a damn strange thing to do given Trump would be out of office in 2 weeks anyway.
1 Incompetence is always a possibility, but I have always taken it that the bits of the FBI and Secret Service which defend the US executive were the creme de la creme of security services anywhere in the world
3 The thinking would be that it heads off an attempt to nuke Iran next week.
Of course a million angry Yorkshiremen marching on parliament demanding their rights could be easily stopped in their tracks by a single builder's quote.
As I said earlier my fear is Trump declares some kind of emergency or martial law in the chaos.
It seems as if Pence and others are working together to bypass him, though. Apparently it was Pence who called out the National Guard to the Capitol, which, if I've got it right, seems to have been what stabilised the situation.
Of course a million angry Yorkshiremen marching on parliament demanding their rights could be easily stopped in their tracks by a single builder's quote.
OW BLEEDIN MUCH?
I want to be the first Directly Elected Dictator Governor of Yorkshire.
It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.
We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.
Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
Close the borders completely. Stay at home orders for everyone for two weeks. Only exemption is for medical appointments and food deliveries with food supply chain workers given full hazmat suits. We can't let the SA variant take hold here.
It is already here.
So Foxy, how fucked are we? When I heard they were having to send critical care patients from Kent to Plymouth, I began to worry.
I would find it hard to trust law enforcement if I were a Democrat elected representative now. How many of them are Trump supporters who believe the election was stolen? Probably a majority?
These mobs could have stormed count centres and burnt postal ballots - and then Biden would have been left high and dry.
3 hours and we are still talking of stand offs. It’s a disgrace.
I think this is tricky. We all know this is not a coup as such. It's a mob. I don't think law enforcement should raise the violence if they can help it, nor should they make martyrs of these people. The best way to deal with them is for them to serve time behind bars.
3 hours and we are still talking of stand offs. It’s a disgrace.
I think this is tricky. We all know this is not a coup as such. It's a mob. I don't think law enforcement should raise the violence if they can help it, nor should they make martyrs of these people. The best way to deal with them is for them to serve time behind bars.
I disagree. One of the contributors on CNN was spot on. This is either the end of something or the beginning of something. If these people are allowed to walk away and are perceived to get away with this it’s more likely to be a beginning.
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. TO quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."
Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
The Confederate States of America created their own State Department and tried to send Ambassadors (or Ministers in Residence) to many countries.
Hey I didn't make the rules. Its the Yanks that wanted to call it a Civil War. I would have called it a revolution but that would have tarnished the first one. And as someone has already pointed out, it was because they wouldn't let the South be a foreign power that they had the war.
Hey I got my argument! . Cool
If you want to have a proper argument about the Civil War, there's a legal argument no state has the right or ability to secede from the United States of America.
Not exactly. SCOTUS ruled after the war that no state can unilaterally secede. It would appear that a state can secede by agreement with the federal government. It's unclear if a state can be expelled from the Union, but maybe we should try to find out.
I believe that Texas has an exemption, having been an independent Republic for a decade or so, before joining the USA.
Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?
No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?
Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place
1. Utter incompetence 2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians 3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.
Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.
We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.
Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
Close the borders completely. Stay at home orders for everyone for two weeks. Only exemption is for medical appointments and food deliveries with food supply chain workers given full hazmat suits. We can't let the SA variant take hold here.
It is already here.
Hence the countermeasures to stop it having any chance of taking hold like Kent COVID did over a few weeks in October.
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. TO quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."
Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
The Confederate States of America created their own State Department and tried to send Ambassadors (or Ministers in Residence) to many countries.
Hey I didn't make the rules. Its the Yanks that wanted to call it a Civil War. I would have called it a revolution but that would have tarnished the first one. And as someone has already pointed out, it was because they wouldn't let the South be a foreign power that they had the war.
Hey I got my argument! . Cool
If you want to have a proper argument about the Civil War, there's a legal argument no state has the right or ability to secede from the United States of America.
Not exactly. SCOTUS ruled after the war that no state can unilaterally secede. It would appear that a state can secede by agreement with the federal government. It's unclear if a state can be expelled from the Union, but maybe we should try to find out.
I believe that Texas has an exemption, having been an independent Republic for a decade or so, before joining the USA.
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. TO quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."
Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
The Confederate States of America created their own State Department and tried to send Ambassadors (or Ministers in Residence) to many countries.
Hey I didn't make the rules. Its the Yanks that wanted to call it a Civil War. I would have called it a revolution but that would have tarnished the first one. And as someone has already pointed out, it was because they wouldn't let the South be a foreign power that they had the war.
Hey I got my argument! . Cool
If you want to have a proper argument about the Civil War, there's a legal argument no state has the right or ability to secede from the United States of America.
Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.
Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?
It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.
Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
No. It just requires them to think he's incapable of discharging his duties. There is no definition on what makes incapability other than the Veep and a majority of the Cabinet.
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department[note 1] or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.[6]
Yes, but he clearly is capable of discharging his powers and responsibilities.
I think impeachment rather than incapability is the appropriate process.
He is as capable as he always was - i.e. not. But it's not through insanity or mental frailty. It's character and personality.
It's hard to tell without actually being near him - but his actions *could* add up to mental incapacity.
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. To quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."
Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
I think that’s the reason oaths of office in the US contain a vow to protect the US and it’s Constitution from enemies “foreign and domestic” (or words to that effect). Whether regarded as foreign or domestic it was an enemy to the US constitution and its flag thus an enemy flag.
People often swear allegiance to the flag, but that doesn't seem to stop many from preferring another of course.
Impeachment carries no penalties except removal from office*. It is a complex procedure, and takes time. You wouldn't get 10% of the way through the process by 20 January. This is a nonsense proposal.
*OK and future disqualification which I suppose helps a bit.
It’s not nonsense at all, and it doesn’t have to be done by the 20th. The point is the disqualification from ever again holding public office.
Criminal proceedings would be an order of magnitude more fraught with problems, and likely far more protracted. Not to impeach would be to normalise what Trump has done - in the same manner he’s been allowed to trash every norm over the last four years, but far more consequentially.
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
Confederacy surely. And (less pedantically) it thought it was, which was even more the point.
Confederacy yes. Oops.
Interesting philosophical question.
The Confederacy thought they were a foreign power, if the Union had agreed it would have been a peaceful split.
So there was only a war because the Confederacy wasn’t a foreign power?
Lincoln's view (Which became the general Union approach) was that the Confederacy *wasn't* a foreign power - further that the actual states hadn't left the union, just that some people had committed insurection. They considered the Confederacy an insurrection *inside* the United States.
Although my avatar made it even more complicated.
He was the Whig Governor of Tennessee who was a committed abolitionist. But when the Union invaded Tennessee he fought for the Confederacy on the grounds that he was defending his state from occupation
"We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.
If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction
The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. To quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."
Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
I think that’s the reason oaths of office in the US contain a vow to protect the US and it’s Constitution from enemies “foreign and domestic” (or words to that effect). Whether regarded as foreign or domestic it was an enemy to the US constitution and its flag thus an enemy flag.
People often swear allegiance to the flag, but that doesn't seem to stop many from preferring another of course.
So many of them swear allegiance to the Confederate Flag. Shouldn't the Union finally take action to ban this symbol of slavery and insurrection?
Until recently the governments strategy was to get a trade deal with Trump. A lucky escape.
Indeed. TBH this just shows how misguided so many people have been for so long treating this guy as either (I) some sort of "bit of a laugh" pure joke figure or (ii) an authentic if unconventional populist politician.
One would hope that what he is - vermin - is now clear to all.
3 hours and we are still talking of stand offs. It’s a disgrace.
I think this is tricky. We all know this is not a coup as such. It's a mob. I don't think law enforcement should raise the violence if they can help it, nor should they make martyrs of these people. The best way to deal with them is for them to serve time behind bars.
3 hours and we are still talking of stand offs. It’s a disgrace.
I think this is tricky. We all know this is not a coup as such. It's a mob. I don't think law enforcement should raise the violence if they can help it, nor should they make martyrs of these people. The best way to deal with them is for them to serve time behind bars.
I disagree. One of the contributors on CNN was spot on. This is either the end of something or the beginning of something. If these people are allowed to walk away and are perceived to get away with this it’s more likely to be a beginning.
They absolutely must be punished and swiftly, but I have the nagging worry that that won't be the case. There will be a lot of sorrowful comments from those who tacitly encouraged the mob to act today, particularly as one person has sadly died, but I just cannot believe that. They and millions were practically chomping at the bit for a mob to march on the Capitol, even if they did not technically want there to be violence. They will do mental gymnastics to avoid any blame themselves, and part of that will be to downplay the seriousness of every single person within that mob, of the need to forgive or redeem (which is hard to do if the transgressor faced no consequences) or not escalate or provoke. They won't want to upset Trump, even now. Hopefully law enforcement and prosecutors will not let that stop them.
Comments
Basic point though. Insurrectionist waving the flag of a breakaway state who waged civil war against the US Army in the heart of the US government isn't who I would expect the US president to declare his love for.
1. Utter incompetence
2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.
Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
2 is regrettably slightly plausible
3 is within the realm of possibility, technically, but a damn strange thing to do given Trump would be out of office in 2 weeks anyway.
Reports some people still in capital
Presumably the choice will end up being a radical dilution of staffing and standards of care for everyone needing ICU or some who need it just being left to die. I'd expect the former to be adopted.
Grim times ahead.
Much less stupid then...But not necessarily correct.
https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance/status/1346923695755943938
Next you'll be saying there won't be any exemptions for skiing holidays!
So as horrifying as the scenes in Washington are it is providing a welcome distraction. Only America can be as unhinged as this. Land of the Free indeed...
Of course a million angry Yorkshiremen marching on parliament demanding their rights could be easily stopped in their tracks by a single builder's quote.
Pass the sick bag Maud...
3 The thinking would be that it heads off an attempt to nuke Iran next week.
https://twitter.com/guyro/status/1346950532372393985
These mobs could have stormed count centres and burnt postal ballots - and then Biden would have been left high and dry.
I can't see any way out of this mess.
Just dreadful
Looks like Police letting the protestors in. 😲
Sorry, couldn't resist.
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1346927100402417666?s=20
I am convinced he will blurt out some rubbish about "saving Easter" next week.
The point is the disqualification from ever again holding public office.
Criminal proceedings would be an order of magnitude more fraught with problems, and likely far more protracted.
Not to impeach would be to normalise what Trump has done - in the same manner he’s been allowed to trash every norm over the last four years, but far more consequentially.
He was the Whig Governor of Tennessee who was a committed abolitionist. But when the Union invaded Tennessee he fought for the Confederacy on the grounds that he was defending his state from occupation
How the fuck would he know what people want anyway?
One would hope that what he is - vermin - is now clear to all.
One nightmare after another in the US