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Joe Biden responds to the dramatic events in Washington – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,441
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for Andy Cooke

    Actually, I thought Trump's recorded speech - incendiary and irresponsible as it was, and quite possibly seditious - was clever. He trod a fine line, pretty deftly. It was not demented, it was clear and well-judged (if your entire concern is the greater wellbeing of Donald Trump)

    Trump is a selfish psycho. I despise him. I always have.

    But from his point of view, in terms of preserving a core vote that will be very useful if the American Establishment attempts to move against him, it was a smart speech.

    Biden's speech was by far the more presidential, thank God, as he is about to be president.

    I don't think it was smart even on those terms by too closely associating himself with them as an extension of himself, rather than merely supporters who have gone too far.
    I predict the American elite will resile from pursuing Trump, legally. Because he has this core. Which he shored up today. That is my point.

    Populism in America is not going away any time soon, I fear.
  • DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I find that very hard to believe. Even in this situation.
    Who runs America when it is not the President is not always as clear-cut as you'd hope. It was a subplot in the West Wing one episode, and iirc when Reagan was shot, Al Haig wrongly claimed to be temporarily in charge.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    Scott_xP said:
    The Vice President doesn't actually have the authority to do that....
    He does now.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Leon said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    I don't wish to stoke this argument - and I emphasise again all these idiots at the Capitol should be arrested forthwith if they have done a crime, including one Donald Trump Esq - but we cannot ignore the context. For the last year American media, world media, social media especially, has been full of images of BLM protestors (mostly white leftists, apparently) pulling down and desecrating American icons and symbols, and pulling down statues, up to and including Abraham Lincoln, who sits at the very heart of America's self image as a "good" country. The man who literally went to war - at the expense of hundreds of thousands of American lives - to EMANCIPATE slaves.

    You cannot do this shit, illegally, without expecting blowback. White America - which, remember, voted for Trump en masse despite him being (to me) an obvious, sinister lunatic - feels under attack. All its values trashed.

    You may say Well they deserve this, White people are inherently racist, all they can do is apologise, but many many people will violently reject this: especially poor white religious whites, who are still a very significant part of the American population, and certainly do not feel "inherently privileged" as they work for minimum wage, at best.

    Let us hope that Biden can heal these wounds. I was very doubtful, but his speech today was good. It is a frail hope, but it is all we have.
    I think there is point to be made about the inadvisability of starting cultural wars somewhere, but I just do not seriously believe that this would not be happening if none of the rioting from the other side had already happened.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    edited January 2021
    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/RichardGowan1/status/1346926632863485960

    Apparently, as others commented below, unfair on the Canadians?

    Canada wasn't independent back then :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Scott_xP said:
    Looks like a piddling small group. I'd head for the hills lads, you're going to prison and should probably enjoy what time you have before then.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    Yokes said:

    Tres said:

    Gambling peeps. What are the odds on Pence to be the next President now then?

    Next to zero. The republicans will clear house. Its more likely to be a populist without the self indulgence.
    I think he means between now and the 20th!
    Dont see the point, its only going to raise the martyrdom and have him pardoned of federal crimes should charges be brought.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited January 2021
    Gaussian said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    Yeah if you put it that way. Next hurdle is bringing along a third each of Republican senators and reps, and the small matter of convincing Republican voters that it was the right thing to do.

    Still, it's either that or giving Trump two more weeks of wreaking havoc.
    25th doesn't need Congress. It needs Pence and a majority of the Cabinet.

    Congress votes 21 days later, but his term expires in 14 anyway.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882
    Charles said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
    Charles said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
    Confederacy surely. And (less pedantically) it thought it was, which was even more the point.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Yes, rather thought that was the case when my initial reaction was - well, there's nothing here.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited January 2021
    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    I don't wish to stoke this argument - and I emphasise again all these idiots at the Capitol should be arrested forthwith if they have done a crime, including one Donald Trump Esq - but we cannot ignore the context. For the last year American media, world media, social media especially, has been full of images of BLM protestors (mostly white leftists, apparently) pulling down and desecrating American icons and symbols, and pulling down statues, up to and including Abraham Lincoln, who sits at the very heart of America's self image as a "good" country. The man who literally went to war - at the expense of hundreds of thousands of American lives - to EMANCIPATE slaves.

    You cannot do this shit, illegally, without expecting blowback. White America - which, remember, voted for Trump en masse despite him being (to me) an obvious, sinister lunatic - feels under attack. All its values trashed.

    You may say Well they deserve this, White people are inherently racist, all they can do is apologise, but many many people will violently reject this: especially poor white religious whites, who are still a very significant part of the American population, and certainly do not feel "inherently privileged" as they work for minimum wage, at best.

    Let us hope that Biden can heal these wounds. I was very doubtful, but his speech today was good. It is a frail hope, but it is all we have.
    I think there is point to be made about the inadvisability of starting cultural wars somewhere, but I just do not seriously believe that this would not be happening if none of the rioting from the other side had already happened.
    As mentioned earlier, the atmosphere of Trump rallies was of intimidation of journalists and violence around the peripheries of the rallies themselves all the way back in 2016, well before BLM.
  • Tres said:

    Gambling peeps. What are the odds on Pence to be the next President now then?

    Betfair has 13 (or 12/1 in old money) available against Trump leaving office before the end of his first term.
    This market (Betfair, Trump leaving office before the end of his first term) is thin but is currently being traded so odds are bouncing around as people weigh the likelihood of Pence replacing Trump for a few days till Biden takes office.
  • Charles said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
    The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/krx449/megathread_archiving_the_capitol_hill_riots/

    Reddit thread trying to collate as many videos as possible. They'll get archived so even if they are removed from their current platforms they will live on.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_xP said:
    The Vice President doesn't actually have the authority to do that....
    I was actually wondering that!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    I still think he's a pound shop Jefferson Davis.

    Jefferson Davis actually did split the country,
    Please stop insulting Pound Shop - if you go into the local Pound Shop, you can get a bottle of Fairy liquid for a pound. Which is really useful for doing the dishes.

    If you gave Jeff Davis a pound coin, he'd spend it on losing a war. No Fairy liquid. So dirty dishes in the sink....
    As if I'd ever step foot in a Pound Shop.
    You might need to ask for directions

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    And again, we shouldn't be surprised. We saw the reactions to armed men barging into a statehouse last year. Just a bunch of rambunctious citizens.
    TSE wouldn't find any point in going into a Poundshop. There's not much benefit in shopping for about 0.5% of a single trainer shoe (if I recall his habits correctly).
    He could get some fairy liquid to keep his trainers nice and clean....

    One thing I always wondered about Sons of Anarchy - did Jax have a cupboard containing hundreds of pairs of trainers for when he got blood on the current ones? Every episode basically. So either he was boil washing trainers every night.....
    Oh, get a new pair every week, like builders and Tesco jeans.
    You get a new pair of builders every week?
    No - just that Bob the Builder gets new jeans rather than wash them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited January 2021
    We actually want them back?

    Losing that war was a lucky escape, more like. The hidden genius of Lord North.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    " unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" is what it says. Again, there's procedures to be followed; if the Pres says actually he's fine (and he has 4 days to do that), Congress has to vote on it. There isn't time for either impeachment or the 25th.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    You don’t think that he is delusional?
  • Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    No. It just requires them to think he's incapable of discharging his duties. There is no definition on what makes incapability other than the Veep and a majority of the Cabinet.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
    Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department[note 1] or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.[6]
  • Leon said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    I don't wish to stoke this argument - and I emphasise again all these idiots at the Capitol should be arrested forthwith if they have done a crime, including one Donald Trump Esq - but we cannot ignore the context. For the last year American media, world media, social media especially, has been full of images of BLM protestors (mostly white leftists, apparently) pulling down and desecrating American icons and symbols, and pulling down statues, up to and including Abraham Lincoln, who sits at the very heart of America's self image as a "good" country. The man who literally went to war - at the expense of hundreds of thousands of American lives - to EMANCIPATE slaves.
    You seemed to have missed the dudes carrying the CONFEDERATE flag into the Congress!
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Scott_xP said:
    The Vice President doesn't actually have the authority to do that....
    Probably they'll spin it as him acting in his capacity as President of the Senate requesting aid to defend the Capitol Building
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882
    edited January 2021
    Jonathan said:

    Is now the perfect moment for a thread on AV and STV?

    With equally calming subplots for our diesel locomotive enthusiasts and our culinarists. Be rather nice actuially compared with this.
  • Anyway, Today was the day that the constitution requires the Electoral College votes counted. They counted 9 for Trump and 0 for Biden. So that is the result - a whitewash for Trump.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    I was wondering about that. Maybe destroying them was the plan all along?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Scott_xP said:
    If ever a group has had vindication for their own existence it is them, even if AOC and some dems hate them.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    " unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" is what it says. Again, there's procedures to be followed; if the Pres says actually he's fine (and he has 4 days to do that), Congress has to vote on it. There isn't time for either impeachment or the 25th.
    There is time for the 25th. It just takes a vote of Pence and a majority of the Cabinet.

    There may not be time for Congress to hold its vote it needs to hold within 21 days but that is immaterial. Pence would remain Acting President for 14 days, then Biden becomes President.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    As Trump does his Beer Hall Putsch thing, worth remembering his various sycophantic cheerleaders in the UK. Here is Michael Gove, recently returned from his triumphant encounter four years ago, extolling the great man's charisma, talking up Trump's huge desire for a UK-US trade deal (of which still no sign, obvs) and expressing the view that Trump would certainly tone down his wild campaign rhetoric once in office. Nostradamus he ain't, but his brown-nosing is world beating.

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UgXvbrx32Y0&ved=2ahUKEwiU__OapojuAhWVi1wKHdKNASsQwqsBMAV6BAgWEBI&usg=AOvVaw1yLICJ4p5XnRtfxWQ3KaOk
  • Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    No, it doesn't. All it requires is a declaration by Pence and a majority of the cabinet that Trump is unable to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President. There is no limitation on the reasons for that declaration.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Talk on CNN that lawmakers want to complete certification tonight whatever it takes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,441

    Leon said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    I don't wish to stoke this argument - and I emphasise again all these idiots at the Capitol should be arrested forthwith if they have done a crime, including one Donald Trump Esq - but we cannot ignore the context. For the last year American media, world media, social media especially, has been full of images of BLM protestors (mostly white leftists, apparently) pulling down and desecrating American icons and symbols, and pulling down statues, up to and including Abraham Lincoln, who sits at the very heart of America's self image as a "good" country. The man who literally went to war - at the expense of hundreds of thousands of American lives - to EMANCIPATE slaves.
    You seemed to have missed the dudes carrying the CONFEDERATE flag into the Congress!
    But, who were they?

    Let's face it, if you were Putin or Xi, would you want to quieten or foment this discord in the Arsenal of Western Democracy: the USA? I have no idea if there is any truth in this tweet, but I am very sure Russia and China have been, for their own benefit, ramping up division in the West, via social media, and otherwise.

    https://twitter.com/MassiMassian/status/1346939024854962176?s=20
  • Yeah, these MAGAs ain't too sharp. Just turning themselves in.

    https://twitter.com/KevOnStage/status/1346937897060945920
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is now the perfect moment for a thread on AV and STV?

    With equally calming subplots for our diesel locomotive enthusiasts and our culinarists. Be rather nice actuially compared with this.
    Don’t forget The Merits of Boxed Wine and The Secrets of Great Air Travel.
  • Anyway, Today was the day that the constitution requires the Electoral College votes counted. They counted 9 for Trump and 0 for Biden. So that is the result - a whitewash for Trump.

    There are still six and half hours of today left in Washington!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    No. It just requires them to think he's incapable of discharging his duties. There is no definition on what makes incapability other than the Veep and a majority of the Cabinet.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
    Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department[note 1] or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.[6]
    Yes, but he clearly is capable of discharging his powers and responsibilities.

    I think impeachment rather than incapability is the appropriate process.

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Anyway, Today was the day that the constitution requires the Electoral College votes counted. They counted 9 for Trump and 0 for Biden. So that is the result - a whitewash for Trump.

    Apparently some enterprising aide grabbed the votes on the way out the Capitol, so Congress has everything they need and is discussing whether they can proceed from where they are.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    I was just starting the 4th season of House of Cards last night, but this new show seems much more lively.
  • "I got a foot inside the Capitol Building and they maced me"
    https://twitter.com/KirkWrites79/status/1346936420997292038
    Bless
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    No. It just requires them to think he's incapable of discharging his duties. There is no definition on what makes incapability other than the Veep and a majority of the Cabinet.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
    Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department[note 1] or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.[6]
    Yes, but he clearly is capable of discharging his powers and responsibilities.

    I think impeachment rather than incapability is the appropriate process.

    Not up to you, up to Pence and a majority of the Cabinet.

    If Pence and a majority of the Cabinet think he is incapable then he is incapable. That's the Constitution.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    I don't wish to stoke this argument - and I emphasise again all these idiots at the Capitol should be arrested forthwith if they have done a crime, including one Donald Trump Esq - but we cannot ignore the context. For the last year American media, world media, social media especially, has been full of images of BLM protestors (mostly white leftists, apparently) pulling down and desecrating American icons and symbols, and pulling down statues, up to and including Abraham Lincoln, who sits at the very heart of America's self image as a "good" country. The man who literally went to war - at the expense of hundreds of thousands of American lives - to EMANCIPATE slaves.
    You seemed to have missed the dudes carrying the CONFEDERATE flag into the Congress!
    But, who were they?

    Let's face it, if you were Putin or Xi, would you want to quieten or foment this discord in the Arsenal of Western Democracy: the USA? I have no idea if there is any truth in this tweet, but I am very sure Russia and China have been, for their own benefit, ramping up division in the West, via social media, and otherwise.

    https://twitter.com/MassiMassian/status/1346939024854962176?s=20
    He's a massive well known QAnon supporter.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?

    No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882

    As Trump does his Beer Hall Putsch thing, worth remembering his various sycophantic cheerleaders in the UK. Here is Michael Gove, recently returned from his triumphant encounter four years ago, extolling the great man's charisma, talking up Trump's huge desire for a UK-US trade deal (of which still no sign, obvs) and expressing the view that Trump would certainly tone down his wild campaign rhetoric once in office. Nostradamus he ain't, but his brown-nosing is world beating.

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UgXvbrx32Y0&ved=2ahUKEwiU__OapojuAhWVi1wKHdKNASsQwqsBMAV6BAgWEBI&usg=AOvVaw1yLICJ4p5XnRtfxWQ3KaOk

    Exactly. With real implications for British politics over the next couple of years.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    edited January 2021
    Not right now Boris. Not in the absolute height of a pandemic, we can work from home for a bit..
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    " unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" is what it says. Again, there's procedures to be followed; if the Pres says actually he's fine (and he has 4 days to do that), Congress has to vote on it. There isn't time for either impeachment or the 25th.
    There is time for the 25th. It just takes a vote of Pence and a majority of the Cabinet.

    There may not be time for Congress to hold its vote it needs to hold within 21 days but that is immaterial. Pence would remain Acting President for 14 days, then Biden becomes President.
    Yeah sorry you are right.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548
    edited January 2021

    Charles said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
    The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
    Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. To quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,

    "A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."

    Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,441
    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    I don't wish to stoke this argument - and I emphasise again all these idiots at the Capitol should be arrested forthwith if they have done a crime, including one Donald Trump Esq - but we cannot ignore the context. For the last year American media, world media, social media especially, has been full of images of BLM protestors (mostly white leftists, apparently) pulling down and desecrating American icons and symbols, and pulling down statues, up to and including Abraham Lincoln, who sits at the very heart of America's self image as a "good" country. The man who literally went to war - at the expense of hundreds of thousands of American lives - to EMANCIPATE slaves.
    You seemed to have missed the dudes carrying the CONFEDERATE flag into the Congress!
    But, who were they?

    Let's face it, if you were Putin or Xi, would you want to quieten or foment this discord in the Arsenal of Western Democracy: the USA? I have no idea if there is any truth in this tweet, but I am very sure Russia and China have been, for their own benefit, ramping up division in the West, via social media, and otherwise.

    https://twitter.com/MassiMassian/status/1346939024854962176?s=20
    He's a massive well known QAnon supporter.
    I bow to your superior knowledge. I also confess I'm not quite sure if QAnon are right or left or what? Which in itself is, arguably, a symptom of these troubled times.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    Pulpstar said:
    To be be fair Hitler *was* right on one thing - killing Hitler was a good idea.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    " unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" is what it says. Again, there's procedures to be followed; if the Pres says actually he's fine (and he has 4 days to do that), Congress has to vote on it. There isn't time for either impeachment or the 25th.
    Why isn't there time for the 25th?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    I still think he's a pound shop Jefferson Davis.

    Jefferson Davis actually did split the country,
    Please stop insulting Pound Shop - if you go into the local Pound Shop, you can get a bottle of Fairy liquid for a pound. Which is really useful for doing the dishes.

    If you gave Jeff Davis a pound coin, he'd spend it on losing a war. No Fairy liquid. So dirty dishes in the sink....
    As if I'd ever step foot in a Pound Shop.
    You might need to ask for directions

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    And again, we shouldn't be surprised. We saw the reactions to armed men barging into a statehouse last year. Just a bunch of rambunctious citizens.
    TSE wouldn't find any point in going into a Poundshop. There's not much benefit in shopping for about 0.5% of a single trainer shoe (if I recall his habits correctly).
    He could get some fairy liquid to keep his trainers nice and clean....

    One thing I always wondered about Sons of Anarchy - did Jax have a cupboard containing hundreds of pairs of trainers for when he got blood on the current ones? Every episode basically. So either he was boil washing trainers every night.....
    Oh, get a new pair every week, like builders and Tesco jeans.
    You get a new pair of builders every week?
    No - just that Bob the Builder gets new jeans rather than wash them.
    Like Jack Reacher.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
    Charles said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
    Confederacy surely. And (less pedantically) it thought it was, which was even more the point.
    Confederacy yes. Oops.

    Interesting philosophical question.

    The Confederacy thought they were a foreign power, if the Union had agreed it would have been a peaceful split.

    So there was only a war because the Confederacy wasn’t a foreign power?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Pulpstar said:

    Not right now Boris. Not in the absolute height of a pandemic, we can work from home for a bit..
    I can report in a survey of my team and including myself a grand total of 0 wished to return to office now and a total of 0 wished to go back to office full time at any time in future.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    " unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" is what it says. Again, there's procedures to be followed; if the Pres says actually he's fine (and he has 4 days to do that), Congress has to vote on it. There isn't time for either impeachment or the 25th.
    Why isn't there time for the 25th?
    Because Biden gets inaugurated on the 20th.
  • "I got a foot inside the Capitol Building and they maced me"
    https://twitter.com/KirkWrites79/status/1346936420997292038
    Bless

    Maybe Karen should have had her mask on.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for Andy Cooke

    Actually, I thought Trump's recorded speech - incendiary and irresponsible as it was, and quite possibly seditious - was clever. He trod a fine line, pretty deftly. It was not demented, it was clear and well-judged (if your entire concern is the greater wellbeing of Donald Trump)

    Trump is a selfish psycho. I despise him. I always have.

    But from his point of view, in terms of preserving a core vote that will be very useful if the American Establishment attempts to move against him, it was a smart speech.

    Biden's speech was by far the more presidential, thank God, as he is about to be president.

    I don't think it was smart even on those terms by too closely associating himself with them as an extension of himself, rather than merely supporters who have gone too far.
    I predict the American elite will resile from pursuing Trump, legally. Because he has this core. Which he shored up today. That is my point.

    Populism in America is not going away any time soon, I fear.
    Just get WH Security to unplug the Comms, confiscate his phone and shut the press outside the gates for 10 days.

    Trump without outlet would suffer even faster than if you Noriega'd him 24/7 with Beck - Loser:)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Gaussian said:

    Takes too long. It should come from Pence, it could be done in minutes.
    Requires a declaration that Trump is unable to discharge the duties of his office though. Which he isn't. Although if they put him in handcuffs first ...
    The President has a duty to respect the Constitution.

    Today Trump has been unable to discharge that duty. The 25th should be invoked.
    No I don't think so. Again, the heat needs to be taken out of it. We don't need more partisan politics right now which is what that would bring.
    The point of the 25th amendment is that the Republicans would be cleaning house itself. It would be better than impeachment for that reason.
    Doesn't the 25th require incapacity for physical or mental reasons?

    It seems to me that Trump is bad rather than mad, so the 25th not applicable.

    Impeachment, yes, but whether can be processed in time, I think not.
    " unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" is what it says. Again, there's procedures to be followed; if the Pres says actually he's fine (and he has 4 days to do that), Congress has to vote on it. There isn't time for either impeachment or the 25th.
    Why isn't there time for the 25th?
    There is, I had misread it. There's provision for a vote by Congress, but that is basically an opportunity for the Pres to appeal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited January 2021
    Presumably automated to go out, but that man can cry crocodile tears all he wants, his cowardice and belief that stoking paranoia and aggression would not matter have shown his character.

    Edit: All the worse as we know he doesn't like or support Trump from what he said before Trump became the Republican nominee. So it isn't even stupidity, but a calculated choice.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Riot police moving in now saying CNN
  • Charles said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
    The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
    Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. TO quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,

    "A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."

    Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
    The Confederate States of America created their own State Department and tried to send Ambassadors (or Ministers in Residence) to many countries.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    "I got a foot inside the Capitol Building and they maced me"
    https://twitter.com/KirkWrites79/status/1346936420997292038
    Bless

    I didn't realize the US Capitol had a mace as well! She should really have checked that beforehand.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited January 2021
    So have they all dispersed ? The flow of information seems to have slowed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Pulpstar said:
    To be be fair Hitler *was* right on one thing - killing Hitler was a good idea.
    At some point people should really stop and ask themselves:

    "Ok, this particular quote of Hitler makes a point I would like to make - can I find someone else who said something similar, so that I don't have to open a sentence with 'Hitler was right'?"
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    What? With 1 in 50 people having Covid?
    That is quite possibly a contender for stupidest comment of the day.
    In a crowded field.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    So have they all dispersed ? The flow of information seems to have slowed.

    Not from the reporting i'm watching
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361

    I still think he's a pound shop Jefferson Davis.

    Jefferson Davis actually did split the country,
    Please stop insulting Pound Shop - if you go into the local Pound Shop, you can get a bottle of Fairy liquid for a pound. Which is really useful for doing the dishes.

    If you gave Jeff Davis a pound coin, he'd spend it on losing a war. No Fairy liquid. So dirty dishes in the sink....
    As if I'd ever step foot in a Pound Shop.
    Actually, in English it's "set foot", not "step foot". :lol:
    Actually 'step foot' is an older English phrase, a variation of 'footstep'.
    FAKE NEWS

    The Oxford English Dictionary has examples of foot-setting going back to the 1400s and of foot-stepping dating from the 1500s.
    "I 'ad that Henry VIII step foot in the back of m'e carriage the ovur day. Proper gent e' was. So I tolds him about how I came from Albania...."
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited January 2021
    Floater said:

    So have they all dispersed ? The flow of information seems to have slowed.

    Not from the reporting i'm watching
    What's going on , currently ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    I dont see how Biden can be inaugurated in such a public place now. Clearly a massive massive risk.
  • Sorry to be Mr Happy Fun Guy but there's some other issues as well.

    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1346933766082580480

  • Charles said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
    The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
    Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. TO quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,

    "A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."

    Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
    The Confederate States of America created their own State Department and tried to send Ambassadors (or Ministers in Residence) to many countries.
    Hey I didn't make the rules. Its the Yanks that wanted to call it a Civil War. I would have called it a revolution but that would have tarnished the first one. :) And as someone has already pointed out, it was because they wouldn't let the South be a foreign power that they had the war.

    Hey I got my argument! . Cool :)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,214
    Trump to leave before 20 Jan is 18s on Betfair. Doesn't seem a terrible price is my initial thought.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,682
    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    I don't wish to stoke this argument - and I emphasise again all these idiots at the Capitol should be arrested forthwith if they have done a crime, including one Donald Trump Esq - but we cannot ignore the context. For the last year American media, world media, social media especially, has been full of images of BLM protestors (mostly white leftists, apparently) pulling down and desecrating American icons and symbols, and pulling down statues, up to and including Abraham Lincoln, who sits at the very heart of America's self image as a "good" country. The man who literally went to war - at the expense of hundreds of thousands of American lives - to EMANCIPATE slaves.
    You seemed to have missed the dudes carrying the CONFEDERATE flag into the Congress!
    But, who were they?

    Let's face it, if you were Putin or Xi, would you want to quieten or foment this discord in the Arsenal of Western Democracy: the USA? I have no idea if there is any truth in this tweet, but I am very sure Russia and China have been, for their own benefit, ramping up division in the West, via social media, and otherwise.

    https://twitter.com/MassiMassian/status/1346939024854962176?s=20
    He's a massive well known QAnon supporter.
    I bow to your superior knowledge. I also confess I'm not quite sure if QAnon are right or left or what? Which in itself is, arguably, a symptom of these troubled times.
    Very far right.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited January 2021

    Sorry to be Mr Happy Fun Guy but there's some other issues as well.

    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1346933766082580480

    What a day, and what a twelve months it's been for everyone.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    dixiedean said:

    What? With 1 in 50 people having Covid?
    That is quite possibly a contender for stupidest comment of the day.
    In a crowded field.
    Sod it, he won't win but I'll probably have to vote for Starmer now. Can't be doing with Gov't by Telegraph header
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1346915116424585220?s=19

    It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.

    We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    rpjs said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Vice President doesn't actually have the authority to do that....
    Probably they'll spin it as him acting in his capacity as President of the Senate requesting aid to defend the Capitol Building
    I think it is interesting that Pence stepped in like that - if nothing else, it gives some cover to using the 25th. If the VP has to play president.....
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    dixiedean said:

    What? With 1 in 50 people having Covid?
    That is quite possibly a contender for stupidest comment of the day.
    In a crowded field.
    You did notice the words 'once the Covid pandemic is over', right?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    dixiedean said:

    Charles said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
    The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
    The indulgence of the Confederate flag has gone on for too many decades.
    Banning it could be Biden's first action. Defy Republicans to thwart him.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I hate to stoke conspiracy theories but I have just watched on a US channel (not right wing) which seems to show police moving barricades and letting people through......
  • Sorry to be Mr Happy Fun Guy but there's some other issues as well.

    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1346933766082580480

    The NHS England presentation, seen by HSJ (see slides below story), showed that even if the number of covid patients grew at the lowest rate considered likely, and measures to manage demand and increase capacity, including open the capital’s Nightingale hospital, were successful, the NHS in London would be short of nearly 2,000 general and acute and intensive care beds by 19 January.
This discussion has been closed.