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Joe Biden responds to the dramatic events in Washington – politicalbetting.com

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  • Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Because the Rump Parliament was such a success
    Those engaged in sedition have been expelled before.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Roger said:

    Did I mishear or have they just appointed as chairman of the BBC a banker who has donated £400,000 to the Tory Party?

    Pass the sick bag Maud...

    So you’re not worried about his tone at Goldman Sachs?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited January 2021
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    "We love you, you are very special". They have stormed the heart of the American government. That photo of the guy walking through the building waving the flag of a foreign power who waged war against America - very special.

    If it had been Antifa, or Bernie Supporters and the flag had been Palestine or China, you can imagine the reaction

    The Confederation wasn’t a foreign power though - that was exactly the point.
    The Confederate States of America was a foreign - non USA power - waging war against the USA. Once they declared independence and formed a new state that makes them foreign. Yes it was disputed. But that flag should not be in that building.
    Whilst I don't in any way disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, by definition a civil war does not mean one side is a foreign power. TO quote that wondrous font of all knowledge Wikipedia,

    "A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology, is a war between organized groups within the same state or country."

    Edit: the only reason I mention this is because I want to get in on the arguments somehow but I agree with most people posting on here so have to find a pedantic angle to exploit.
    The Confederate States of America created their own State Department and tried to send Ambassadors (or Ministers in Residence) to many countries.
    Hey I didn't make the rules. Its the Yanks that wanted to call it a Civil War. I would have called it a revolution but that would have tarnished the first one. :) And as someone has already pointed out, it was because they wouldn't let the South be a foreign power that they had the war.

    Hey I got my argument! . Cool :)
    If you want to have a proper argument about the Civil War, there's a legal argument no state has the right or ability to secede from the United States of America.
    Except for Texas
    That’s an urban myth. Texas is unique in having the right to unilaterally split itself into up to six five states but not secede from the union (see Texas v White) (corrected)
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    https://twitter.com/cevansavenger/status/1346920924310867968

    Looks like Police letting the protestors in. 😲

    If there really was Police collusion, if Pence hadn't called out the National Guard, literally anything could have happened.
    Thats the video I saw
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Andy_JS said:

    James Delingpole has re-tweeted claims that the people storming Congress are actually BLM supporters.

    James Delingpole is a twat. Confirmed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    Until recently the governments strategy was to get a trade deal with Trump. A lucky escape.

    Indeed. TBH this just shows how misguided so many people have been for so long treating this guy as either (I) some sort of "bit of a laugh" pure joke figure or (ii) an authentic if unconventional populist politician.

    One would hope that what he is - vermin - is now clear to all.
    Many species of vermin are quite cute and unfairly maligned. I prefer the term parasite.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1346915116424585220?s=19

    It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.

    We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.

    Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
    Close the borders completely. Stay at home orders for everyone for two weeks. Only exemption is for medical appointments and food deliveries with food supply chain workers given full hazmat suits. We can't let the SA variant take hold here.
    It is already here.
    So Foxy, how fucked are we? When I heard they were having to send critical care patients from Kent to Plymouth, I began to worry.
    Well, neither variant is worse clinically than the original, it seems. There are a number of vaccine trials ongoing in SA, including AZN, so we should get data soon on how that vaccine works against the SA form, which is now 90% of their Covid-19. I recall the SA arm of the trial has a six week gap between doses.

    From Monday, my Trust which is a couple of weeks behind the London wave is pulling the plug on anything but the most urgent surgery, so staff and beds can be redeployed. Our covid patients are 50% up on first wave already, and likely to hit 50% of total hospital beds within 2 weeks. Fortunately the ICU need is currently half of what it was in March.

    It really is time to live like a hermit as far as possible, for those who can.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Andy_JS said:

    James Delingpole has re-tweeted claims that the people storming Congress are actually BLM supporters.

    James Delingpole has sadly completely lost his marbles.

    It's Trump Derangement Syndrome. People bought into Trump - often for good reasons, and they disliked those who criticised him.

    Then Trump does something foolish or stupid. Rather than agree with the hated "libs", they defend Trump.

    It's a gradual path to utter madness where each time you excuse an act of Trump, you make excusing the next a little bit easier.

    Until you're pretending that tens of thousands of dead people voted, that voting machines were rigged, and that the storming of the Capitol was actually organised by ANTIFA*.

    * The idea ANTIFA could organise anything being particularly ironic.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    DavidL said:

    The woman who was shot has sadly died

    Just dreadful

    That is extremely sad.
    CNN don't have that. Which seems surprising.
    Sky reported it
    Not saying its not true but there is a lot of gossip and nonsense at the moment.

    And now the curfew is being made to look ridiculous. How much do they want to do to convince these people that they are completely above the law? Its really dangerous.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    Pro_Rata said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh, Lord, that's tickled me.

    Of course a million angry Yorkshiremen marching on parliament demanding their rights could be easily stopped in their tracks by a single builder's quote.
    OW BLEEDIN MUCH?
    I want to be the first Directly Elected Dictator Governor of Yorkshire.
    What has it done to deserve that?
  • ITV News embedded themselves with the insurrectionists
    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1346952339886923786
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Not sure whether this has been noted amid all this evening's excitement:

    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1346927100402417666?s=20

    Poor Jon. A historical electoral achievement relegated down the news by epochal chaos.
    I don't think we've heard the last of him. He is an excellent speaker and debater. He is going to be high profile.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Scott_xP said:
    Jesus fucking Christ, is this man genetically incapable of self reflection, humility, sensitivity?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,321
    Meanwhile the DUP are upset about the Brexit deal.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1346763811144015873
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    GW Bush calls it an "insurrection".

  • Pulpstar said:

    Not right now Boris. Not in the absolute height of a pandemic, we can work from home for a bit..
    It would be nice if he'd stick to one consistent message (e.g. yesterday's "Stay home") for, say, a whole sodding week. Is that too much to ask?
    If you read the article it says "once the pandemic is over" which is I think a much more reasonable message.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    The sergeant-at-arms, who is responsible for Congress’s security, has told lawmakers and reporters that the Capitol is now secure, though lawmakers, staff and reporters continue to shelter in much of the Capitol complex.

    Lawmakers in both parties have called for the certification process of the Electoral College votes to resume with the securing of the building. No word yet if and when that will begin.

    NYTimes blog
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1346915116424585220?s=19

    It looks as if the vaccines will work on "cockney covid" but may be more problematic for the South African variant. Antibodies from recovered patient serum (note, not vaccine antibodies) are 10 times less effective against the SA variant.

    We know that the second dose of Pfizer vaccine raises antibodies by a factor of 100 when given on day 21. Hence the SA recommendation to stick to the licensed Pfizer regime.

    Shit. So the assault on the US Capitol was the good news for the day ?
    Close the borders completely. Stay at home orders for everyone for two weeks. Only exemption is for medical appointments and food deliveries with food supply chain workers given full hazmat suits. We can't let the SA variant take hold here.
    It is already here.
    So Foxy, how fucked are we? When I heard they were having to send critical care patients from Kent to Plymouth, I began to worry.
    Well, neither variant is worse clinically than the original, it seems. There are a number of vaccine trials ongoing in SA, including AZN, so we should get data soon on how that vaccine works against the SA form, which is now 90% of their Covid-19. I recall the SA arm of the trial has a six week gap between doses.

    From Monday, my Trust which is a couple of weeks behind the London wave is pulling the plug on anything but the most urgent surgery, so staff and beds can be redeployed. Our covid patients are 50% up on first wave already, and likely to hit 50% of total hospital beds within 2 weeks. Fortunately the ICU need is currently half of what it was in March.

    It really is time to live like a hermit as far as possible, for those who can.
    Thanks. Good luck. We’re all counting on you...

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    James Delingpole has re-tweeted claims that the people storming Congress are actually BLM supporters.

    James Delingpole is a twat. Confirmed.
    We need to stop enabling him and his ilk by describing them as such.
    He's not a twat.
    He's a malevolent threat to democracy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Because the Rump Parliament was such a success
    It certainly acted decisively on the Head of State issue.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Pulpstar said:

    Not right now Boris. Not in the absolute height of a pandemic, we can work from home for a bit..
    It would be nice if he'd stick to one consistent message (e.g. yesterday's "Stay home") for, say, a whole sodding week. Is that too much to ask?
    He’s talking about after the pandemic, to be fair.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Because the Rump Parliament was such a success
    Those engaged in sedition have been expelled before.
    Take it from me.

    It’s a really really stupid idea
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    A theory - the 25th Amendment has already been invoked. Trump is no longer President, but they haven't announced it to avoid antagonising the protesters.

    But if Pence is now President, he won't presumably be the Presiding officer in the Senate when they resume...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    edited January 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    Not right now Boris. Not in the absolute height of a pandemic, we can work from home for a bit..
    It would be nice if he'd stick to one consistent message (e.g. yesterday's "Stay home") for, say, a whole sodding week. Is that too much to ask?
    If you read the article it says "once the pandemic is over" which is I think a much more reasonable message.
    But why say it now?

    PS I suspect it's a totally evidence-free view of Johnson's too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Because the Rump Parliament was such a success
    It certainly acted decisively on the Head of State issue.
    Yes very speedily. Chop chop!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Jesus fucking Christ, is this man genetically incapable of self reflection, humility, sensitivity?
    I think everyone on here knows the answer to that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    tlg86 said:
    No good talking about some leaders. Name names. Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, and many many more.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited January 2021
    alex_ said:

    A theory - the 25th Amendment has already been invoked. Trump is no longer President, but they haven't announced it to avoid antagonising the protesters.

    But if Pence is now President, he won't presumably be the Presiding officer in the Senate when they resume...

    I've been wondering about this. How has Pence been able to make all these crucial decisions ?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Jesus fucking Christ, is this man genetically incapable of self reflection, humility, sensitivity?
    Do you need to ask?
  • Scott_xP said:
    I love how Twitter have decided that every word the President says invokes risk of violence
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh, Lord, that's tickled me.

    Of course a million angry Yorkshiremen marching on parliament demanding their rights could be easily stopped in their tracks by a single builder's quote.
    OW BLEEDIN MUCH?
    I want to be the first Directly Elected Dictator Governor of Yorkshire.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Party
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    dixiedean said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    James Delingpole has re-tweeted claims that the people storming Congress are actually BLM supporters.

    James Delingpole is a twat. Confirmed.
    We need to stop enabling him and his ilk by describing them as such.
    He's not a twat.
    He's a malevolent threat to democracy.
    Yes, on top of the few genuine fascists, there are usually enough willing to turn a blind eye, think they can control the fascists, or make use of the ensuing chaos to pursue their own culture war agendas.

    A bit like the Daily Mail in the 1930s.
  • alex_ said:

    A theory - the 25th Amendment has already been invoked. Trump is no longer President, but they haven't announced it to avoid antagonising the protesters.

    But if Pence is now President, he won't presumably be the Presiding officer in the Senate when they resume...

    Pence doesn't become President by invoking the 25th, he becomes Acting President and assumes the powers of the President.

    He still I presume remains the Veep.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,897

    ITV News embedded themselves with the insurrectionists
    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1346952339886923786

    That's an astonishing piece of reporting
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Leon said:

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
    You talk utter shite, take your superstitious delusions elsewhere
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Because the Rump Parliament was such a success
    It certainly acted decisively on the Head of State issue.
    Yes very speedily. Chop chop!
    Hey now, there was a whole week between the opening of the court and him being declared guilty, and several more days to the execution. A thorough, open process with no predetermined outcome.

    Oh to have been John Bradshaw or John Cook back then, what a moment.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Scott_xP said:
    I love how Twitter have decided that every word the President says invokes risk of violence
    Twitter are a disgrace. They should have shut his account down months ago. The excuse that it was the POTUS account never washed - he posted on his personal account throughout.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    CNN have now confirmed Sky's story about the woman dying, sadly.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Pulpstar said:

    ITV News embedded themselves with the insurrectionists
    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1346952339886923786

    That's an astonishing piece of reporting
    And stupid.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    tlg86 said:
    Good chance the next Republican President may well now be his half Hispanic nephew but probably for not at least a decade

    https://twitter.com/georgepbush/status/1346920112771706881?s=20
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh, Lord, that's tickled me.

    Of course a million angry Yorkshiremen marching on parliament demanding their rights could be easily stopped in their tracks by a single builder's quote.
    OW BLEEDIN MUCH?
    I want to be the first Directly Elected Dictator Governor of Yorkshire.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Party
    There is also a North East Party. A PBer is a member...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    alex_ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I love how Twitter have decided that every word the President says invokes risk of violence
    Twitter are a disgrace. They should have shut his account down months ago. The excuse that it was the POTUS account never washed - he posted on his personal account throughout.
    Certainly today his inflammatory words have directly precipitated violent action, and as a matter of public safety he should not have been able to use the platform to further stoke tensions.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Jesus fucking Christ, is this man genetically incapable of self reflection, humility, sensitivity?
    I think everyone on here knows the answer to that.
    I think Trump is like this because someone somewhere once campaigned for Racial Justice.

    Both sides.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Not right now Boris. Not in the absolute height of a pandemic, we can work from home for a bit..
    It would be nice if he'd stick to one consistent message (e.g. yesterday's "Stay home") for, say, a whole sodding week. Is that too much to ask?
    If you read the article it says "once the pandemic is over" which is I think a much more reasonable message.
    But why say it now?

    PS I suspect it's a totally evidence-free view of Johnson's too.
    Why say it now? I have no idea and I'm not going to try to defend it.
    Are people keen to get back to the office? I don't know about offices, but I would dearly love to be back teaching in a lab again: it is so much easier to see how clearly you are getting though when the students are in front of you rather than on a computer screen. I also miss the Friday afternoon pub visits, the Christmas and Summer parties, even the staff meetings.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?

    No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
    I always plump for incompetence as my first call.
    Incompetence, along with semi-approval.
    https://twitter.com/joshgerstein/status/1346945707161382913

    Had this been (for instance) a BLM protest outside on the street, how many police would have been taking selfies ?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:
    Good chance the next Republican President may well now be his half Hispanic nephew but probably for not at least a decade

    https://twitter.com/georgepbush/status/1346920112771706881?s=20
    I read somewhere that his nephew is MAGA - and given as a reason why GWB hasn't spoken out more against Trump.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    alex_ said:

    A theory - the 25th Amendment has already been invoked. Trump is no longer President, but they haven't announced it to avoid antagonising the protesters.

    But if Pence is now President, he won't presumably be the Presiding officer in the Senate when they resume...

    Under 25th, Pence would be acting President. The Trump idiot remains President with all powers removed.
  • Leon said:

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
    You do realise astrology is a pseudo-science?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?

    No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
    I always plump for incompetence as my first call.
    Incompetence, along with semi-approval.
    https://twitter.com/joshgerstein/status/1346945707161382913

    Had this been (for instance) a BLM protest outside on the street, how many police would have been taking selfies ?
    Very worrying claims that DoD refused Mayor of DC's call to deploy the National Guard. Even though reports earlier in the day were that they were on standby.
  • alex_ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ITV News embedded themselves with the insurrectionists
    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1346952339886923786

    That's an astonishing piece of reporting
    And stupid.
    I sat watching it with my gob hanging open. It takes a particularly ballsy news crew to see *that* and think "lets get in there". Yes they can go in without fear of arrest thanks to the 1st Amendment. But seriously, I would have been in fear of the crowd - violence, the pox, caught in the crossfire.

    Its no wonder I was a crap journalist. No balls.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    edited January 2021
    The pathetic actions (or lack of) of the police today will have done nothing to stem the anti-police sentiment in some parts of America. And it was literally in front of the world.

    https://twitter.com/lilsmichelle/status/1346910093309145095?s=20
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679

    What's striking and a little reassuring about the Trump insurrection is the lack of organisation and leadership - basically it's a bunch of angry people trying to make out what the supreme leader wants them to do. Fortunately, there seems to be no organised plan - no attempt to seize news stations, set up alternative power bases, encourage military disaffection. It's just idiot Trump, a startlingly large bunch of careerists passively going tolerating him and a horde of leaderless louts. It's utterly appalling, but actually not remotely enough to be a threat.

    They are just the losers in the Great Culture War having a last fandango.

    That said, I predict they will return. America is now so divided, and China so ascendant, it seems very likely to me that a populist, white, nationalist leader - sane, clever, wily - will do what Trump spectacularly failed to do, put together a long-lasting majority of frightened suburbanites, mainly white, often religious, but including Floridan Cali and Texan Hispanics etc, sufficient to get a large-ish majority which will successfully seek to undo much of the "progressive" revolutions of the last decade.

    Indeed, I do not see how this will not happen. The Democratic Party only won because Trump is a madman. Within itself it is fatally divided between the identitarian Left -AOC, Olmar, etc- and centrists like Biden. Just as Labour is fatally divided between Corbynites and Blairites. The antagonisms are too deep for the coalition to endure.

    The Left cannot win by itself and will not win. As China rises, clearly supplanting America as top dog nation, there will be a nationalist American reaction. It will not be pretty.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    ITN News... Amazing.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Because the Rump Parliament was such a success
    It certainly acted decisively on the Head of State issue.
    It believed in separation in that matter
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Leon said:

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
    You do realise astrology is a pseudo-science?
    Not even pseudo-science, just utter bollocks.

    Economics, now that's a real pseudo-science
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited January 2021
    alex_ said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?

    No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
    I always plump for incompetence as my first call.
    Incompetence, along with semi-approval.
    https://twitter.com/joshgerstein/status/1346945707161382913

    Had this been (for instance) a BLM protest outside on the street, how many police would have been taking selfies ?
    Very worrying claims that DoD refused Mayor of DC's call to deploy the National Guard. Even though reports earlier in the day were that they were on standby.
    That was the most alarming aspect of the whole day. That DoD functionary was specifically put in by Trump in his post-election round of purges. If that's really true, that will merit some serious investigation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Nigelb said:

    At a bare minimum, Trump must be impeached.
    Not to do so would be to accept this behaviour, almost to normalise it.

    Whether or not he has committed indictable federal crimes today would be a matter of some legal controversy.
    That he has blatantly violated the constitution, and is utterly unfit to be permitted to hold office ought now to be uncontroversial.

    At its most basic, outside of any laws, everyone, supporter or opponent, knows that he considers himself more important than the Republic. In such a patriotic country I'm amazed how many are able to look past that (especially with his other flaws). The extent to which the political tribes despise one another is astonishing.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    alex_ said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?

    No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
    I always plump for incompetence as my first call.
    Incompetence, along with semi-approval.
    https://twitter.com/joshgerstein/status/1346945707161382913

    Had this been (for instance) a BLM protest outside on the street, how many police would have been taking selfies ?
    Very worrying claims that DoD refused Mayor of DC's call to deploy the National Guard. Even though reports earlier in the day were that they were on standby.
    They have been deployed. The Pentagon didn't refuse, it said it would think about it - which itself was worrying, but they got it right in the end.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    What's striking and a little reassuring about the Trump insurrection is the lack of organisation and leadership - basically it's a bunch of angry people trying to make out what the supreme leader wants them to do. Fortunately, there seems to be no organised plan - no attempt to seize news stations, set up alternative power bases, encourage military disaffection. It's just idiot Trump, a startlingly large bunch of careerists passively going tolerating him and a horde of leaderless louts. It's utterly appalling, but actually not remotely enough to be a threat.

    The biggest thing we can be thankful for is that so few of them seem to have brought guns. And that must be largely down to Washington DC's very strong anti-guns laws. Not that i expect anybody (second amendment fanatics) to appreciate the irony of that.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Leon said:

    What's striking and a little reassuring about the Trump insurrection is the lack of organisation and leadership - basically it's a bunch of angry people trying to make out what the supreme leader wants them to do. Fortunately, there seems to be no organised plan - no attempt to seize news stations, set up alternative power bases, encourage military disaffection. It's just idiot Trump, a startlingly large bunch of careerists passively going tolerating him and a horde of leaderless louts. It's utterly appalling, but actually not remotely enough to be a threat.

    They are just the losers in the Great Culture War having a last fandango.

    That said, I predict they will return. America is now so divided, and China so ascendant, it seems very likely to me that a populist, white, nationalist leader - sane, clever, wily - will do what Trump spectacularly failed to do, put together a long-lasting majority of frightened suburbanites, mainly white, often religious, but including Floridan Cali and Texan Hispanics etc, sufficient to get a large-ish majority which will successfully seek to undo much of the "progressive" revolutions of the last decade.

    Indeed, I do not see how this will not happen. The Democratic Party only won because Trump is a madman. Within itself it is fatally divided between the identitarian Left -AOC, Olmar, etc- and centrists like Biden. Just as Labour is fatally divided between Corbynites and Blairites. The antagonisms are too deep for the coalition to endure.

    The Left cannot win by itself and will not win. As China rises, clearly supplanting America as top dog nation, there will be a nationalist American reaction. It will not be pretty.
    You think today was a great advert for that agenda?
    No wonder you listen to astrologers.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Trump supporters on lawn of Governors mansion in Washington STATE
  • Leon said:

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
    You do realise astrology is a pseudo-science?
    Not even pseudo-science, just utter bollocks.

    Economics, now that's a real pseudo-science
    I think that's a bit unfair. Economics is quite good at explaining why things are as they are. Where it falls down is when people then try to use it to work out how to make things "better", usually by trying to use it to justify the things that they wanted to do from the start.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited January 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    alex_ said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?

    No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
    I always plump for incompetence as my first call.
    Incompetence, along with semi-approval.
    https://twitter.com/joshgerstein/status/1346945707161382913

    Had this been (for instance) a BLM protest outside on the street, how many police would have been taking selfies ?
    Very worrying claims that DoD refused Mayor of DC's call to deploy the National Guard. Even though reports earlier in the day were that they were on standby.
    They have been deployed. The Pentagon didn't refuse, it said it would think about it - which itself was worrying, but they got it right in the end.
    Why would you just be thinking about it, in a situation, in terms of the critical building being invaded, that is unprecedented for centuries ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679

    Leon said:

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
    You do realise astrology is a pseudo-science?
    It's not even a pseudo-science, it is absolute shite.

    And yet, she nailed these predix. And she specifically told me, months ago, when things were looking up, that No, January 2021 would be notably and painfully worse, signifiying an escalation in the global crisiis.

    Maybe she was talking about this? -

    "London’s hospitals are less than two weeks from being overwhelmed by covid even under the “best” case scenario, according to an official briefing given to the capital’s most senior doctors this afternoon."

    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1346933766082580480?s=20
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Floater said:

    Trump supporters on lawn of Governors mansion in Washington STATE

    The ring leader is shouting "this is war"
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IshmaelZ said:

    alex_ said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?

    No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
    I always plump for incompetence as my first call.
    Incompetence, along with semi-approval.
    https://twitter.com/joshgerstein/status/1346945707161382913

    Had this been (for instance) a BLM protest outside on the street, how many police would have been taking selfies ?
    Very worrying claims that DoD refused Mayor of DC's call to deploy the National Guard. Even though reports earlier in the day were that they were on standby.
    They have been deployed. The Pentagon didn't refuse, it said it would think about it - which itself was worrying, but they got it right in the end.
    Possibly only when the President allegedly called for it, long after the Capitol had been breached. But we'll find out what did or didn't go on eventually.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Pulpstar said:

    Not right now Boris. Not in the absolute height of a pandemic, we can work from home for a bit..
    It would be nice if he'd stick to one consistent message (e.g. yesterday's "Stay home") for, say, a whole sodding week. Is that too much to ask?
    If you read the article it says "once the pandemic is over" which is I think a much more reasonable message.
    But why say it now?

    PS I suspect it's a totally evidence-free view of Johnson's too.
    Why say it now? I have no idea and I'm not going to try to defend it.
    Are people keen to get back to the office? I don't know about offices, but I would dearly love to be back teaching in a lab again: it is so much easier to see how clearly you are getting though when the students are in front of you rather than on a computer screen. I also miss the Friday afternoon pub visits, the Christmas and Summer parties, even the staff meetings.
    I miss working with people. The casual interactions and the differing faces. Meeting people for lunch. I miss the office to that extent but going back now would clearly be insanity. Particularly as it’s completely open plan. I also note that people I work with and clients in smaller houses are far more keen than people with more salubrious home working arrangements.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    Leon said:

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
    You do realise astrology is a pseudo-science?
    Not even pseudo-science, just utter bollocks.

    Economics, now that's a real pseudo-science
    I think that's a bit unfair. Economics is quite good at explaining why things are as they are. Where it falls down is when people then try to use it to work out how to make things "better", usually by trying to use it to justify the things that they wanted to do from the start.
    "I wouldn't have started from here" is one of the most overused phrases in the field.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    alex_ said:

    A theory - the 25th Amendment has already been invoked. Trump is no longer President, but they haven't announced it to avoid antagonising the protesters.

    But if Pence is now President, he won't presumably be the Presiding officer in the Senate when they resume...

    Pence doesn't become President by invoking the 25th, he becomes Acting President and assumes the powers of the President.

    He still I presume remains the Veep.
    Step forward Chuck Grassley.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    The pathetic actions (or lack of) of the police today will have done nothing to stem the anti-police sentiment in some parts of America. And it was literally in front of the world.

    https://twitter.com/lilsmichelle/status/1346910093309145095?s=20

    Generally agree, although the death of one of the people who stormed the Capitol today makes that tweet feel slightly awkward.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited January 2021
    Christ. I see Arizona recorded the UK equivalent of 92,000 cases on the 28th of December.

    Stay safe @rcs1000
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    DougSeal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Not right now Boris. Not in the absolute height of a pandemic, we can work from home for a bit..
    It would be nice if he'd stick to one consistent message (e.g. yesterday's "Stay home") for, say, a whole sodding week. Is that too much to ask?
    If you read the article it says "once the pandemic is over" which is I think a much more reasonable message.
    But why say it now?

    PS I suspect it's a totally evidence-free view of Johnson's too.
    Why say it now? I have no idea and I'm not going to try to defend it.
    Are people keen to get back to the office? I don't know about offices, but I would dearly love to be back teaching in a lab again: it is so much easier to see how clearly you are getting though when the students are in front of you rather than on a computer screen. I also miss the Friday afternoon pub visits, the Christmas and Summer parties, even the staff meetings.
    I miss working with people. The casual interactions and the differing faces. Meeting people for lunch. I miss the office to that extent but going back now would clearly be insanity. Particularly as it’s completely open plan. I also note that people I work with and clients in smaller houses are far more keen than people with more salubrious home working arrangements.
    Yup - about a half to third of people I know love working from home. Jobs that are easily remote, good accommodation etc etc

    Another third or so would crawl over broken glass to get back to the office.

    With about a third in the middle - a few days a week of home working would be OK.....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Riot police now pushing the crowds well away from Capitol building.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
    You do realise astrology is a pseudo-science?
    It's not even a pseudo-science, it is absolute shite.

    And yet, she nailed these predix. And she specifically told me, months ago, when things were looking up, that No, January 2021 would be notably and painfully worse, signifiying an escalation in the global crisiis.

    Maybe she was talking about this? -

    "London’s hospitals are less than two weeks from being overwhelmed by covid even under the “best” case scenario, according to an official briefing given to the capital’s most senior doctors this afternoon."

    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1346933766082580480?s=20
    Did she specifically mention London's hospitals? And did she divulge the IDs of the "advanced countries" fighting one another?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    alex_ said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?

    No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
    I always plump for incompetence as my first call.
    Incompetence, along with semi-approval.
    https://twitter.com/joshgerstein/status/1346945707161382913

    Had this been (for instance) a BLM protest outside on the street, how many police would have been taking selfies ?
    Very worrying claims that DoD refused Mayor of DC's call to deploy the National Guard. Even though reports earlier in the day were that they were on standby.
    They have been deployed. The Pentagon didn't refuse, it said it would think about it - which itself was worrying, but they got it right in the end.
    Why would you just be thinking about it, in a situation, in terms of the critical buildings invaded, that is unprecedented for centuries ?
    Because you were in a situation unprecedented for centuries, would be one possible reason. Because you were getting conflicting instructions from the Mayor and the President might be another. I don't know because I wasn't there.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
    You do realise astrology is a pseudo-science?
    It's not even a pseudo-science, it is absolute shite.

    And yet, she nailed these predix. And she specifically told me, months ago, when things were looking up, that No, January 2021 would be notably and painfully worse, signifiying an escalation in the global crisiis.

    Maybe she was talking about this? -

    "London’s hospitals are less than two weeks from being overwhelmed by covid even under the “best” case scenario, according to an official briefing given to the capital’s most senior doctors this afternoon."

    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1346933766082580480?s=20
    Which two major countries are going to war then? And when?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    alex_ said:

    A theory - the 25th Amendment has already been invoked. Trump is no longer President, but they haven't announced it to avoid antagonising the protesters.

    But if Pence is now President, he won't presumably be the Presiding officer in the Senate when they resume...

    Pence doesn't become President by invoking the 25th, he becomes Acting President and assumes the powers of the President.

    He still I presume remains the Veep.
    Correct, he does. Also IIRC the 25th is invoked by VPOTUS and Cabinet notifying Congress that they’ve suspended POTUS so it’d be a bit difficult to keep it secret.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Trump supporters on lawn of Governors mansion in Washington STATE

    The ring leader is shouting "this is war"
    It is worrying what could happen in other states whilst eyes remain on Washington.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Hold on, that woman who died was a rioter/terrorist trying to overthrow the government. I have to say, not a lot of sympathy. She was a fool and paid the price for her idiocy given that she was committing treason to try and overturn the democratic election result using violence.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited January 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    alex_ said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Which member of Congress wants to be the first to cry 'false flag'?

    No takers yet? Hmm, how about 'We should not overreact(by which I mean we should not react)'?

    Well, there's three theories about the ease with which the protestors were allowed to get into the building in the first place

    1. Utter incompetence
    2. Conspiracy A - allowed to do so by Trumpians
    3. Conspiracy B - allowed to do so by anti-Trumpians in order to precipitate a crisis whose effect has been (we hope) to neutralise Trump by making clear the de facto transfer of allegiance of the Pentagon to the VP and the forces of good.

    Would you bet the farm on, or against, any one of those, and if so which?
    I always plump for incompetence as my first call.
    Incompetence, along with semi-approval.
    https://twitter.com/joshgerstein/status/1346945707161382913

    Had this been (for instance) a BLM protest outside on the street, how many police would have been taking selfies ?
    Very worrying claims that DoD refused Mayor of DC's call to deploy the National Guard. Even though reports earlier in the day were that they were on standby.
    They have been deployed. The Pentagon didn't refuse, it said it would think about it - which itself was worrying, but they got it right in the end.
    Why would you just be thinking about it, in a situation, in terms of the critical buildings invaded, that is unprecedented for centuries ?
    Because you were in a situation unprecedented for centuries, would be one possible reason. Because you were getting conflicting instructions from the Mayor and the President might be another. I don't know because I wasn't there.
    A very strange scenario, whatever the reason. It will be scrutinised very heavily for a long time to come, I think.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    What's striking and a little reassuring about the Trump insurrection is the lack of organisation and leadership - basically it's a bunch of angry people trying to make out what the supreme leader wants them to do. Fortunately, there seems to be no organised plan - no attempt to seize news stations, set up alternative power bases, encourage military disaffection. It's just idiot Trump, a startlingly large bunch of careerists passively going tolerating him and a horde of leaderless louts. It's utterly appalling, but actually not remotely enough to be a threat.

    They are just the losers in the Great Culture War having a last fandango.

    That said, I predict they will return. America is now so divided, and China so ascendant, it seems very likely to me that a populist, white, nationalist leader - sane, clever, wily - will do what Trump spectacularly failed to do, put together a long-lasting majority of frightened suburbanites, mainly white, often religious, but including Floridan Cali and Texan Hispanics etc, sufficient to get a large-ish majority which will successfully seek to undo much of the "progressive" revolutions of the last decade.

    Indeed, I do not see how this will not happen. The Democratic Party only won because Trump is a madman. Within itself it is fatally divided between the identitarian Left -AOC, Olmar, etc- and centrists like Biden. Just as Labour is fatally divided between Corbynites and Blairites. The antagonisms are too deep for the coalition to endure.

    The Left cannot win by itself and will not win. As China rises, clearly supplanting America as top dog nation, there will be a nationalist American reaction. It will not be pretty.
    You think today was a great advert for that agenda?
    No wonder you listen to astrologers.

    Leon said:

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
    You talk utter shite, take your superstitious delusions elsewhere
    She also specifically said you would be anally invaded and diseased by a maddened weasel in mid July. Make of that what you will
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Pelosi just said that Congress will resume counting the EVs this evening.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Romney: "this was insurrection"
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,123
    edited January 2021

    Leon said:

    Hang-on, wasn't 2021 supposed to be better than 2020?

    Nope. I told you what my ASTROLOGER LADY predicted. 2021 will be WORSE than 2020 (and she correctly predicted in late 2019 that 2020 would be a global shitshow).

    She specifically predicts a serious war at some point this year: ie a war involving advanced powers, not Namibia invading the Seychelles.

    I used to deride her predictions. Now... I do not. Not quite so much. It is an odd thing. I still believe astrology is ludicrous, and yet..... hmpf
    You do realise astrology is a pseudo-science?
    Not even pseudo-science, just utter bollocks.

    Economics, now that's a real pseudo-science
    I think that's unfair. You may think economists do a poor job and don't actually understand the economy very well. You may well think some of their theories are simplified and plain wrong. But they do make quite a lot of fairly specific, directional, testable predictions. Indeed, economists are often slated for getting it wrong.

    What makes astrology is pseudo-science is that it isn't falsifiable - it very rarely makes predictions that stand any chance of being demonstrably wrong. Actually, the example given in the thread is a semi-exception - a prediction of a war involving advanced powers this year could at least just possibly be proved wrong... although it's pretty vague - would Russia's annexation of the Crimea have counted for instance?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Jonathan said:

    ITN News... Amazing.

    It was all a bit "Drop the dead donkey". I am not sure Robert Moore should have been inside the Capitol Building.
  • rpjs said:

    alex_ said:

    A theory - the 25th Amendment has already been invoked. Trump is no longer President, but they haven't announced it to avoid antagonising the protesters.

    But if Pence is now President, he won't presumably be the Presiding officer in the Senate when they resume...

    Pence doesn't become President by invoking the 25th, he becomes Acting President and assumes the powers of the President.

    He still I presume remains the Veep.
    Correct, he does. Also IIRC the 25th is invoked by VPOTUS and Cabinet notifying Congress that they’ve suspended POTUS so it’d be a bit difficult to keep it secret.
    Notifying someone in particular from the House and someone in particular from the Senate.

    I'm not sure (the titles are very similar in names which gets confused) but it might even be the two people with Pence and the Department of Defence when the National Guard were sent in.
  • I still think he's a pound shop Jefferson Davis.

    Jefferson Davis actually did split the country,
    Please stop insulting Pound Shop - if you go into the local Pound Shop, you can get a bottle of Fairy liquid for a pound. Which is really useful for doing the dishes.

    If you gave Jeff Davis a pound coin, he'd spend it on losing a war. No Fairy liquid. So dirty dishes in the sink....
    Re: pound shops. Note that on this side of the Atlantic (and Pacific) we have dollar stores.

    When you buy your cut-rate detergent and off-brand candy, you Brits are REALLY getting ripped off!
This discussion has been closed.