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The Republicans are just holding on by fractions in the latest Georgia runoffs’ polling – politicalb

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    kle4 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Yes. I'm not exactly buying what Truss is selling, but silly retorts kind of give her cover rather than undermining her.
    She's definitely onto something.

    She's going against a very fashionable (and all-pervasive) consensus which alot of people are really fed up about. It's the cultural version of the post-war economic consensus in the 70s.

    Leadership.
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1339674249066405889?s=20

    "Brussels has argued that EU level spending should not be bound by common principles set out in a trade deal because such spending is exempt from state-aid rules within the EU. Britain has argued that is irrelevant in the context of an international agreement"

    That's rowing back from what UVdL agreed with Boris.

    Get ready for no deal.
    They keep trying it on.
    I had thought that your threat of "No more Mr Nice Guy" after Jan 1st would have made the EU capitulate....
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,900
    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:
    "The same procedure as every year"
    I didn't know this quote was known in the UK!
    We talked about it here last year.
    A splendid tradition.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,900
    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1339674249066405889?s=20

    "Brussels has argued that EU level spending should not be bound by common principles set out in a trade deal because such spending is exempt from state-aid rules within the EU. Britain has argued that is irrelevant in the context of an international agreement"

    Even I feel that is taking the loss.
    Autocorrect seems not to like piss.
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Yes. I'm not exactly buying what Truss is selling, but silly retorts kind of give her cover rather than undermining her.
    She's definitely onto something.

    She's going against a very fashionable (and all-pervasive) consensus which alot of people are really fed up about. It's the cultural version of the post-war economic consensus in the 70s.

    Leadership.
    I can certainly see some political mileage in blaming the shocking attainments levels in WWC kids on post-modern critical theory priorities rather than the basics. Whether it is the reality is another matter.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:
    "The same procedure as every year"
    I didn't know this quote was known in the UK!
    I had German friends who told me that that movie had Xmas billing in Germany on the level of It's a Wonderful Life or A Christmas Story in the US, or Die Hard in the UK. They could not believe that Brits did not know of it.
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    BREAKING: F.D.A. Panel Endorses Moderna’s Covid-19 Vaccine

    NYTimes
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,177
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1339674249066405889?s=20

    "Brussels has argued that EU level spending should not be bound by common principles set out in a trade deal because such spending is exempt from state-aid rules within the EU. Britain has argued that is irrelevant in the context of an international agreement"

    Even I feel that is taking the loss.
    Autocorrect seems not to like piss.
    Makes you wonder if they even want a deal.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Yokes said:

    Northern Ireland's new post Christmas restrictions have just about done it for me as regards the politicians response to Covid.

    I get it, lets shut as much down as possible between Christmas & new years to stop any chance of people getting bored when they are off on a break and losing discipline.

    Yet...essential retail will close at 8pm for the 1st week of the new restrictions...what genius thought that up? What the heck is an extra hour or three really going to do, it just compresses more people into retail outlets in the hours available. First week of the restrictions be at home from 8pm, an effective curfew. Really? For one week?

    I'm fortunate enough to know a number cruncher who has the job of taking the raw stats released by Department of Health here and putting them into readable, trackable form and they pointed out something to me today that was in the charts & unmissable. The spike really started when the schools and universities came back in September/October The test positivity rate trend started to move down when they shut the schools for an extended mid term, then went up again

    So what the plan for schools,. Maybe close them for an extra week in January? Nope not one bit of it. Schools stay on timetable.

    Apparently some hospitals are now running over capacity, this is new compared to March & April this year where it actually didn't happen. How many extended facilities have been opened locally to address this over October/Nov? A total of 60 odd new beds. Apparently the wonks have been predicting this spike for months, and that's the extent of the planning & delivery.

    Its always worst case scenario being released by the local administration here and yet not once has that worst case has not got near to happening. Just when they need the public support, they are liable to lose it. It looks to be the same elsewhere in the UK, that the public may conclude that wolf has been cried just once too many times.



    If you want schools open you have to shut everything else.

    But the whole point of schools being open is to allow the adults to do everything else.

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    "The formal decision, expected on Friday, would clear the way for some 5.9 million doses to be shipped around the country starting this weekend."

    "The Moderna vaccine can be distributed more widely because it can be stored at normal freezer temperatures"

    NYTimes
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    More stupid headlines like we're at war with Brussels
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,569
    https://twitter.com/davies_will/status/1339601061636554763?s=19

    I see Leeds had a middle school system while she was there. Did they really teach Foucault at Middle School? If so they were far ahead my school.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,402
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It looks like the EU are on the ropes in the 12th (15th in pre-Common Market money) and Boris is about to land the knockout.

    like this



    You miss out the bit where Cleese smashes the EU into the water with a bloody big fish.....
    Depends whether Cleese or Palin represents the EU though...
    No Englishman would ever do a mincing little fish dance in a pith helmet. We still have some standards, damn it.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Reading that lockdowns coming in Northern Ireland as well as Wales now. Not surprising. Will surely happen in England soon after Christmas, and will last for months.

    Just about everything being shut down save for food shopping and schools. Well whoopee. Little Annabel's parents may be on the dole and she may be living off handouts of mealy meal from Unicef, but she'll learn all these fantastic skills to do the various jobs that won't exist when she grows up.

    Incidentally, I've just been watching the Director of Public Health for Luton being interviewed on the local news, and describing the move from tier 2 to tier 3 as useless. The main driver of the illness in her borough is people meeting in the home, which is already covered by the ineffectual tier 2 prohibitions that obviously can't be effectively enforced because we don't live in a police state. Not yet, anyway. She says that hospitality has little to do with transmission in the borough, but it's being shut down regardless. The Government and its scientific advisers are clueless and out of ideas.

    None of this is going to work, is it? The vaccines have been developed at amazing speed, but they're still too late. This is moving into proper scorched earth territory. Large tracts of the economy will no longer exist by the time this is over, and the dwindling number of remaining taxpayers will be left buckling under the weight of mass unemployment and the ever-increasing burden of old people at the same time. There's not much of a future waiting on the other side of this for any of us.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,802
    edited December 2020
    Foxy said:

    I see Leeds had a middle school system while she was there. Did they really teach Foucault at Middle School? If so they were far ahead my school.
    No, they taught her Foucall.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,569
    edited December 2020

    kle4 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Yes. I'm not exactly buying what Truss is selling, but silly retorts kind of give her cover rather than undermining her.
    She's definitely onto something.

    She's going against a very fashionable (and all-pervasive) consensus which alot of people are really fed up about. It's the cultural version of the post-war economic consensus in the 70s.

    Leadership.
    Nah "Cultural Marxism" is just a new version of an old anti-semitic conspiracy theory.

    The Protocols of the Elders of Zion for modern times.
  • Options
    We should have extended Lockdown 2.0 to be up to Christmas, as I called for at the time.

    We came out far too early, once again the cases were simply not low enough.

    We must get cases down to the 10s before we come out again.
  • Options
    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:
    "The same procedure as every year"
    I didn't know this quote was known in the UK!
    When I went to live in Germany in 1998, I'd never heard of "Dinner for One" and was completely bewildered by its status as a New Year's Eve staple in Germany. Since I returned to the UK in 2008, though, awareness of the skit has slowly spread in the UK, and I think it might even have been on TV here once or twice.
  • Options
    Same for Wales who has also cocked it up
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Yes. I'm not exactly buying what Truss is selling, but silly retorts kind of give her cover rather than undermining her.
    She's definitely onto something.

    She's going against a very fashionable (and all-pervasive) consensus which alot of people are really fed up about. It's the cultural version of the post-war economic consensus in the 70s.

    Leadership.
    Nah "Cultural Marxism" is just a new version of an old anti-semitic conspiracy theory.

    The Protocols of the Elders of Zion for modern times.
    Balls. If that were true, the Corbynites wouldn't have been able to resist it!
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:
    "The same procedure as every year"
    I didn't know this quote was known in the UK!
    When I went to live in Germany in 1998, I'd never heard of "Dinner for One" and was completely bewildered by its status as a New Year's Eve staple in Germany. Since I returned to the UK in 2008, though, awareness of the skit has slowly spread in the UK, and I think it might even have been on TV here once or twice.
    It's on YouTube. I had never heard of it. Have just watched it. It's not great.
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,217
    Alistair said:

    Yokes said:

    Northern Ireland's new post Christmas restrictions have just about done it for me as regards the politicians response to Covid.

    I get it, lets shut as much down as possible between Christmas & new years to stop any chance of people getting bored when they are off on a break and losing discipline.

    Yet...essential retail will close at 8pm for the 1st week of the new restrictions...what genius thought that up? What the heck is an extra hour or three really going to do, it just compresses more people into retail outlets in the hours available. First week of the restrictions be at home from 8pm, an effective curfew. Really? For one week?

    I'm fortunate enough to know a number cruncher who has the job of taking the raw stats released by Department of Health here and putting them into readable, trackable form and they pointed out something to me today that was in the charts & unmissable. The spike really started when the schools and universities came back in September/October The test positivity rate trend started to move down when they shut the schools for an extended mid term, then went up again

    So what the plan for schools,. Maybe close them for an extra week in January? Nope not one bit of it. Schools stay on timetable.

    Apparently some hospitals are now running over capacity, this is new compared to March & April this year where it actually didn't happen. How many extended facilities have been opened locally to address this over October/Nov? A total of 60 odd new beds. Apparently the wonks have been predicting this spike for months, and that's the extent of the planning & delivery.

    Its always worst case scenario being released by the local administration here and yet not once has that worst case has not got near to happening. Just when they need the public support, they are liable to lose it. It looks to be the same elsewhere in the UK, that the public may conclude that wolf has been cried just once too many times.



    If you want schools open you have to shut everything else.

    But the whole point of schools being open is to allow the adults to do everything else.

    The number of kids being taken out of school over the last week or so over here is notable. No one is suggesting an extended closure but an extra week either side of the traditional 2-week term break over here. In reality, however, things still functioned during the extended school break over spring and summer as much as restrictions allowed businesses to function.

    The absurdity of essential retail closing at 8..for a week. What exactly is that about? When you get dinky little things like that, you start to wonder what they are at.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,569

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It looks like the EU are on the ropes in the 12th (15th in pre-Common Market money) and Boris is about to land the knockout.

    like this



    You miss out the bit where Cleese smashes the EU into the water with a bloody big fish.....
    Depends whether Cleese or Palin represents the EU though...
    No Englishman would ever do a mincing little fish dance in a pith helmet. We still have some standards, damn it.
    I see both Cleese and Palin are wearing French style pith helmets rather than British pattern ones.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,544

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1339674249066405889?s=20

    "Brussels has argued that EU level spending should not be bound by common principles set out in a trade deal because such spending is exempt from state-aid rules within the EU. Britain has argued that is irrelevant in the context of an international agreement"

    That's rowing back from what UVdL agreed with Boris.

    Get ready for no deal.
    I'm not sure that was agreed at all. What evidence do you have for saying so?
  • Options

    We should have extended Lockdown 2.0 to be up to Christmas, as I called for at the time.

    We came out far too early, once again the cases were simply not low enough.

    We must get cases down to the 10s before we come out again.

    We are never going to get cases down to the 10s.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,569

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Yes. I'm not exactly buying what Truss is selling, but silly retorts kind of give her cover rather than undermining her.
    She's definitely onto something.

    She's going against a very fashionable (and all-pervasive) consensus which alot of people are really fed up about. It's the cultural version of the post-war economic consensus in the 70s.

    Leadership.
    Nah "Cultural Marxism" is just a new version of an old anti-semitic conspiracy theory.

    The Protocols of the Elders of Zion for modern times.
    Balls. If that were true, the Corbynites wouldn't have been able to resist it!
    Say what you like about Corbyn, but describing him as academic is clearly nonsense!
  • Options

    Reading that lockdowns coming in Northern Ireland as well as Wales now. Not surprising. Will surely happen in England soon after Christmas, and will last for months.

    Just about everything being shut down save for food shopping and schools. Well whoopee. Little Annabel's parents may be on the dole and she may be living off handouts of mealy meal from Unicef, but she'll learn all these fantastic skills to do the various jobs that won't exist when she grows up.

    Incidentally, I've just been watching the Director of Public Health for Luton being interviewed on the local news, and describing the move from tier 2 to tier 3 as useless. The main driver of the illness in her borough is people meeting in the home, which is already covered by the ineffectual tier 2 prohibitions that obviously can't be effectively enforced because we don't live in a police state. Not yet, anyway. She says that hospitality has little to do with transmission in the borough, but it's being shut down regardless. The Government and its scientific advisers are clueless and out of ideas.

    None of this is going to work, is it? The vaccines have been developed at amazing speed, but they're still too late. This is moving into proper scorched earth territory. Large tracts of the economy will no longer exist by the time this is over, and the dwindling number of remaining taxpayers will be left buckling under the weight of mass unemployment and the ever-increasing burden of old people at the same time. There's not much of a future waiting on the other side of this for any of us.

    She clearly knows fuck all then.

    Because tier 3 has worked in northern England.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,043
    With that story about Pornhub removing 60% of its content he needed those, no doubt.
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    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It looks like the EU are on the ropes in the 12th (15th in pre-Common Market money) and Boris is about to land the knockout.

    like this


    Es
    You miss out the bit where Cleese smashes the EU into the water with a bloody big fish.....
    Depends whether Cleese or Palin represents the EU though...
    No Englishman would ever do a mincing little fish dance in a pith helmet. We still have some standards, damn it.
    National treasure Michael Palin is English I believe, unless being a metropolitan luvvie who hasn’t said nasty things about the EU disqualifies him?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,043
    Scott_xP said:
    I think they like losing on those grounds - it allows them to pretend they would have won but for some procedural crap, even if the judges also say that's not the case.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    eristdoof said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Andrew Bailey's a very lucky guy that there's a pandemic on otherwise he'd be out on his ear.

    What’s happened?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55335378
    Why should being in charge of an organisation when it fails so dismally at one of its most basic functions be any bar to promotion?

    I mean, if that were the rule, most of the people in charge of many of our organisations - public and private - would have to leave their jobs, sinecure, directorships and membership of the House of Lords.

    And we can’t have that, can we....
    Capitalism relies on businesses failing.
    Paula Vennells?
    Her and quite a few others. I may have mentioned a few of them in some of my headers ......

    Some of the FCA’s failings as set out in that report are pretty bloody basic. And will annoy quite a few of the firms and managers they've piously lectured over the years.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,365

    Reading that lockdowns coming in Northern Ireland as well as Wales now. Not surprising. Will surely happen in England soon after Christmas, and will last for months.

    Just about everything being shut down save for food shopping and schools. Well whoopee. Little Annabel's parents may be on the dole and she may be living off handouts of mealy meal from Unicef, but she'll learn all these fantastic skills to do the various jobs that won't exist when she grows up.

    Incidentally, I've just been watching the Director of Public Health for Luton being interviewed on the local news, and describing the move from tier 2 to tier 3 as useless. The main driver of the illness in her borough is people meeting in the home, which is already covered by the ineffectual tier 2 prohibitions that obviously can't be effectively enforced because we don't live in a police state. Not yet, anyway. She says that hospitality has little to do with transmission in the borough, but it's being shut down regardless. The Government and its scientific advisers are clueless and out of ideas.

    None of this is going to work, is it? The vaccines have been developed at amazing speed, but they're still too late. This is moving into proper scorched earth territory. Large tracts of the economy will no longer exist by the time this is over, and the dwindling number of remaining taxpayers will be left buckling under the weight of mass unemployment and the ever-increasing burden of old people at the same time. There's not much of a future waiting on the other side of this for any of us.

    She clearly knows fuck all then.

    Because tier 3 has worked in northern England.
    So successfully we're still in it!
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686
    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:
    "The same procedure as every year"
    I didn't know this quote was known in the UK!
    When I went to live in Germany in 1998, I'd never heard of "Dinner for One" and was completely bewildered by its status as a New Year's Eve staple in Germany. Since I returned to the UK in 2008, though, awareness of the skit has slowly spread in the UK, and I think it might even have been on TV here once or twice.
    It's on YouTube. I had never heard of it. Have just watched it. It's not great.
    It's mildly amusing at best, but that's not really the point. It's just part of New Year's Eve in Germany (and, I think, other countries) to the extent that many Germans know much of the dialogue by heart and will happy drink along with the hapless butler.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,569

    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:
    "The same procedure as every year"
    I didn't know this quote was known in the UK!
    When I went to live in Germany in 1998, I'd never heard of "Dinner for One" and was completely bewildered by its status as a New Year's Eve staple in Germany. Since I returned to the UK in 2008, though, awareness of the skit has slowly spread in the UK, and I think it might even have been on TV here once or twice.
    I have seen it on YouTube, and at best it is mildly amusing. I thing it gains in pathos by repetition.

    Perhaps most influential is its depiction of Britain as a mad old woman who has seen better days, hung up on tradition, being indulged. Its power is that of allegory.

    I wonder why the Germans think of us this way.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Reading that lockdowns coming in Northern Ireland as well as Wales now. Not surprising. Will surely happen in England soon after Christmas, and will last for months.

    Just about everything being shut down save for food shopping and schools. Well whoopee. Little Annabel's parents may be on the dole and she may be living off handouts of mealy meal from Unicef, but she'll learn all these fantastic skills to do the various jobs that won't exist when she grows up.

    Incidentally, I've just been watching the Director of Public Health for Luton being interviewed on the local news, and describing the move from tier 2 to tier 3 as useless. The main driver of the illness in her borough is people meeting in the home, which is already covered by the ineffectual tier 2 prohibitions that obviously can't be effectively enforced because we don't live in a police state. Not yet, anyway. She says that hospitality has little to do with transmission in the borough, but it's being shut down regardless. The Government and its scientific advisers are clueless and out of ideas.

    None of this is going to work, is it? The vaccines have been developed at amazing speed, but they're still too late. This is moving into proper scorched earth territory. Large tracts of the economy will no longer exist by the time this is over, and the dwindling number of remaining taxpayers will be left buckling under the weight of mass unemployment and the ever-increasing burden of old people at the same time. There's not much of a future waiting on the other side of this for any of us.

    She clearly knows fuck all then.

    Because tier 3 has worked in northern England.
    Burnham probably wouldn't agree with you that there was any value in shutting hospitality.

    Anyway, we'll see what happens when the new variant really takes hold up there. This is hopeless. It's going to overwhelm everyone.
  • Options

    We should have extended Lockdown 2.0 to be up to Christmas, as I called for at the time.

    We came out far too early, once again the cases were simply not low enough.

    We must get cases down to the 10s before we come out again.

    We are never going to get cases down to the 10s.
    We definitely could if we wanted to.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    I was probably in school a lot more recently than you and I don't have a clue what you're talking about
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,544
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    If you can afford it, The Academy (right behind the Hampstead Butcher & Providore) on the High Street is absolutely fantastic. It's both very academic, and very relaxed.

    My daughter was there and absolutely loved it.
  • Options

    We should have extended Lockdown 2.0 to be up to Christmas, as I called for at the time.

    We came out far too early, once again the cases were simply not low enough.

    We must get cases down to the 10s before we come out again.

    We are never going to get cases down to the 10s.
    We definitely could if we wanted to.
    Explain how.
  • Options
    UK Gov is doing it again, pretending we can just carry on with the Tier system. It just doesn't work.

    Lockdown now.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,365

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    I was probably in school a lot more recently than you and I don't have a clue what you're talking about
    Had 2 children recently go through the Comprehensive system. I, too, have no recognition of this in the slightest.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,177

    We should have extended Lockdown 2.0 to be up to Christmas, as I called for at the time.

    We came out far too early, once again the cases were simply not low enough.

    We must get cases down to the 10s before we come out again.

    We are never going to get cases down to the 10s.
    We definitely could if we wanted to.
    It's too late for that. Even with vaccinations there are still going to be outbreaks. The only way to get it that low is complete eradication, or stopping testing.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    We should have extended Lockdown 2.0 to be up to Christmas, as I called for at the time.

    We came out far too early, once again the cases were simply not low enough.

    We must get cases down to the 10s before we come out again.

    We are never going to get cases down to the 10s.
    We definitely could if we wanted to.
    Well, we can pursue an elimination strategy. Unfortunately this would involve turning troops out onto the streets, shutting down more or less everything and punishing anybody caught outside the home for virtually any reason with a bullet in the back of the head.

    Nothing short of total, hermetic self-isolation for individual households will stop this thing in its tracks, and that cannot be realistically achieved. We are stuck with it until the vaccination programme gets round enough people to break the chains of transmission. As I said earlier today, trying to suppress Covid is like trying to suppress the common cold. You can slow it down a little with really draconian measures, but those needed to make it stop altogether would kill a large fraction of the whole population. It is hopeless.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    The big losers must surely be the poor tv watchers of Georgia. What a nightmare.

    I was talking to one yesterday. He confirmed that.
  • Options

    Reading that lockdowns coming in Northern Ireland as well as Wales now. Not surprising. Will surely happen in England soon after Christmas, and will last for months.

    Just about everything being shut down save for food shopping and schools. Well whoopee. Little Annabel's parents may be on the dole and she may be living off handouts of mealy meal from Unicef, but she'll learn all these fantastic skills to do the various jobs that won't exist when she grows up.

    Incidentally, I've just been watching the Director of Public Health for Luton being interviewed on the local news, and describing the move from tier 2 to tier 3 as useless. The main driver of the illness in her borough is people meeting in the home, which is already covered by the ineffectual tier 2 prohibitions that obviously can't be effectively enforced because we don't live in a police state. Not yet, anyway. She says that hospitality has little to do with transmission in the borough, but it's being shut down regardless. The Government and its scientific advisers are clueless and out of ideas.

    None of this is going to work, is it? The vaccines have been developed at amazing speed, but they're still too late. This is moving into proper scorched earth territory. Large tracts of the economy will no longer exist by the time this is over, and the dwindling number of remaining taxpayers will be left buckling under the weight of mass unemployment and the ever-increasing burden of old people at the same time. There's not much of a future waiting on the other side of this for any of us.

    She clearly knows fuck all then.

    Because tier 3 has worked in northern England.
    Burnham probably wouldn't agree with you that there was any value in shutting hospitality.

    Anyway, we'll see what happens when the new variant really takes hold up there. This is hopeless. It's going to overwhelm everyone.
    I'll pay more attention to the actual data than anything Burnham can say.

    Now perhaps you can discuss things with CHB - he thinks that cases can be reduced to the 10s while you think everyone is going to be overwhelmed.
  • Options
    Frankly if they'd teach economics and things like cooking in schools I think a lot of people would be a lot better off.

    Thanks to the Tories we're just obsessed with exams now, well according to my relatives anyway
  • Options
    Update from Hebridean fisher folk (who are not the sort of fisher folk that the media are usually interested in).

    https://twitter.com/uigeach1/status/1339667173153882114?s=21
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    The big losers must surely be the poor tv watchers of Georgia. What a nightmare.

    I was talking to one yesterday. He confirmed that.
    Who watches TV with ads these days?
  • Options
    Aaron Bastani has blocked me on Twitter :(
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,544
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    The big losers must surely be the poor tv watchers of Georgia. What a nightmare.

    I was talking to one yesterday. He confirmed that.
    In Arizona in the last days of the election, the cost of Facebook and YouTube advertising was up about six times from normal levels. I suspect Georgia right now is even worse.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,544
    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    The big losers must surely be the poor tv watchers of Georgia. What a nightmare.

    I was talking to one yesterday. He confirmed that.
    Who watches TV with ads these days?
    Most people don't pay the extra to get the adverts taken out of YouTube
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,402
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1339674249066405889?s=20

    "Brussels has argued that EU level spending should not be bound by common principles set out in a trade deal because such spending is exempt from state-aid rules within the EU. Britain has argued that is irrelevant in the context of an international agreement"

    Even I feel that is taking the loss.
    Autocorrect seems not to like piss.
    Makes you wonder if they even want a deal.
    They have already admitted "there is a narrow path to a deal". Yet the EU seem determinedly intent on walking off it....

    Thank fuck we are out of there.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,849
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,131
    rcs1000 said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    The big losers must surely be the poor tv watchers of Georgia. What a nightmare.

    I was talking to one yesterday. He confirmed that.
    Who watches TV with ads these days?
    Most people don't pay the extra to get the adverts taken out of YouTube
    Adblock is free though
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Reading that lockdowns coming in Northern Ireland as well as Wales now. Not surprising. Will surely happen in England soon after Christmas, and will last for months.

    Just about everything being shut down save for food shopping and schools. Well whoopee. Little Annabel's parents may be on the dole and she may be living off handouts of mealy meal from Unicef, but she'll learn all these fantastic skills to do the various jobs that won't exist when she grows up.

    Incidentally, I've just been watching the Director of Public Health for Luton being interviewed on the local news, and describing the move from tier 2 to tier 3 as useless. The main driver of the illness in her borough is people meeting in the home, which is already covered by the ineffectual tier 2 prohibitions that obviously can't be effectively enforced because we don't live in a police state. Not yet, anyway. She says that hospitality has little to do with transmission in the borough, but it's being shut down regardless. The Government and its scientific advisers are clueless and out of ideas.

    None of this is going to work, is it? The vaccines have been developed at amazing speed, but they're still too late. This is moving into proper scorched earth territory. Large tracts of the economy will no longer exist by the time this is over, and the dwindling number of remaining taxpayers will be left buckling under the weight of mass unemployment and the ever-increasing burden of old people at the same time. There's not much of a future waiting on the other side of this for any of us.

    She clearly knows fuck all then.

    Because tier 3 has worked in northern England.
    Burnham probably wouldn't agree with you that there was any value in shutting hospitality.

    Anyway, we'll see what happens when the new variant really takes hold up there. This is hopeless. It's going to overwhelm everyone.
    I'll pay more attention to the actual data than anything Burnham can say.

    Now perhaps you can discuss things with CHB - he thinks that cases can be reduced to the 10s while you think everyone is going to be overwhelmed.
    On average the two of them are probably right
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,849

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,833
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    Absolute nonsense. I spent my entire career in (state) education - teaching, management, then policy. Both what Truss said of the 80s, and your comments, bear no relation to reality. There is, of course, much that could be improved in our education system; but I've rarely seen a bigger red herring than the nonsense you spout about genders, activist charities and so on. It just doesn't, and never did, happen, except on the extreme fringes - maybe in (private) Montessori schools, but not in comprehensives.
    So many people on here pretend to be experts on everything, even when it's a fair way outside their actual expertise.
    I guess we all went to school so can have an opinion.
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
    Do you have a strong view on pineapple?
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited December 2020

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    Absolute nonsense. I spent my entire career in (state) education - teaching, management, then policy. Both what Truss said of the 80s, and your comments, bear no relation to reality. There is, of course, much that could be improved in our education system; but I've rarely seen a bigger red herring than the nonsense you spout about genders, activist charities and so on. It just doesn't, and never did, happen, except on the extreme fringes - maybe in (private) Montessori schools, but not in comprehensives.
    So many people on here pretend to be experts on everything, even when it's a fair way outside their actual expertise.
    I guess we all went to school so can have an opinion.
    It's odd how so many are quick to call out things when it's somebody they disagree with politically but when it's one of their own they go oddly silent.

    You're spot on of course, Max has written a load of waffle, I doubt even he believes it.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,849

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
    Do you have a strong view on pineapple?
    No.
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
    Do you have a strong view on pineapple?
    No.
    Boring.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,014

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
    Is there such a thing as a pizza without fruit don't they all have tomato sauce on them and tomato is a fruit
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,314
    edited December 2020
    Charles said:

    Reading that lockdowns coming in Northern Ireland as well as Wales now. Not surprising. Will surely happen in England soon after Christmas, and will last for months.

    Just about everything being shut down save for food shopping and schools. Well whoopee. Little Annabel's parents may be on the dole and she may be living off handouts of mealy meal from Unicef, but she'll learn all these fantastic skills to do the various jobs that won't exist when she grows up.

    Incidentally, I've just been watching the Director of Public Health for Luton being interviewed on the local news, and describing the move from tier 2 to tier 3 as useless. The main driver of the illness in her borough is people meeting in the home, which is already covered by the ineffectual tier 2 prohibitions that obviously can't be effectively enforced because we don't live in a police state. Not yet, anyway. She says that hospitality has little to do with transmission in the borough, but it's being shut down regardless. The Government and its scientific advisers are clueless and out of ideas.

    None of this is going to work, is it? The vaccines have been developed at amazing speed, but they're still too late. This is moving into proper scorched earth territory. Large tracts of the economy will no longer exist by the time this is over, and the dwindling number of remaining taxpayers will be left buckling under the weight of mass unemployment and the ever-increasing burden of old people at the same time. There's not much of a future waiting on the other side of this for any of us.

    She clearly knows fuck all then.

    Because tier 3 has worked in northern England.
    Burnham probably wouldn't agree with you that there was any value in shutting hospitality.

    Anyway, we'll see what happens when the new variant really takes hold up there. This is hopeless. It's going to overwhelm everyone.
    I'll pay more attention to the actual data than anything Burnham can say.

    Now perhaps you can discuss things with CHB - he thinks that cases can be reduced to the 10s while you think everyone is going to be overwhelmed.
    On average the two of them are probably right
    Throughout there have been three groups of obsessives:

    1) The doomster obsessives - 'everyone is going to be overwhelmed'
    2) The lockdown obsessives - 'lockdowns forever'
    3) The libertarian obsessives - 'no restrictions ever'

    How many of each type a country gets will vary.

    But we seem to have annoying numbers of all three types in the UK.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    If you can afford it, The Academy (right behind the Hampstead Butcher & Providore) on the High Street is absolutely fantastic. It's both very academic, and very relaxed.

    My daughter was there and absolutely loved it.
    Thanks, we're (hopefully) moving to East Finchley early next year, just going through the process now so it's a bit of a hike. We really wanted somewhere with at least 4 bedrooms and a garden and that was out of our price range in Hampstead so it will be goodbye for a while. The fees look ok though and I like the idea of 6-13 rather than ending at 11.

    We've managed to find a really decently sized fixer upper for just under £1.2m that also hasn't had the attic developed, just need to get the thing completed and our current place sold, we just had someone make an offer at asking price so hopefully it's all going to work out.
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,217

    We should have extended Lockdown 2.0 to be up to Christmas, as I called for at the time.

    We came out far too early, once again the cases were simply not low enough.

    We must get cases down to the 10s before we come out again.

    We are never going to get cases down to the 10s.
    We definitely could if we wanted to.
    Well, we can pursue an elimination strategy. Unfortunately this would involve turning troops out onto the streets, shutting down more or less everything and punishing anybody caught outside the home for virtually any reason with a bullet in the back of the head.

    Nothing short of total, hermetic self-isolation for individual households will stop this thing in its tracks, and that cannot be realistically achieved. We are stuck with it until the vaccination programme gets round enough people to break the chains of transmission. As I said earlier today, trying to suppress Covid is like trying to suppress the common cold. You can slow it down a little with really draconian measures, but those needed to make it stop altogether would kill a large fraction of the whole population. It is hopeless.
    I doubt that. There will be an acceptance that the thing exists. The key issue is protecting the most vulnerable percentage of the population who could end up in hospital plus those who treat them/work with them at close proximity. Despite the buying of 10s of millions of vaccine doses I am not wholly convinced there will be a universal vaccination move by the end of this, it will be similar to flu vaccines where the cohort who are seen as most important to get the jab has widened over time. The rest of us can take our chances. If it was compulsory I'd have few issues getting the jab but if not, I probably wouldn't rush because I have limited consistent exposure to those considered high risk and am otherwise fit and healthy. Speaking to the same stats person who enlightened me on the contribution of schools and universities to the rising test positivity rate (which apparently is the one stat the causal observer needs to pay attention to but probably doesn't), they were of the view that the most critical 10%-15% of the population will be vaccinated before spring. If they can be protected, the hospitalisation rate, which is what really scares the crap out of politicians. is going to fall.

    I've always said since Day 1 of this saga that politicians are primarily driven by the optics of the health service being over-run. Its probably no co-incidence that in Northern Ireland the stories about one hospital having a particularly hard time (and strangely often does be focus of stories about service issues) may have had an impact on the decisions made today. What was less mentioned is that another hospital 15 miles away still has spare capacity.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,402

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    Probably easier to flick off than strawberries.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,802

    Update from Hebridean fisher folk (who are not the sort of fisher folk that the media are usually interested in).

    https://twitter.com/uigeach1/status/1339667173153882114?s=21

    I think Boris has been working on the assumption they wanted to eat the fish, not sell it.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    If you can afford it, The Academy (right behind the Hampstead Butcher & Providore) on the High Street is absolutely fantastic. It's both very academic, and very relaxed.

    My daughter was there and absolutely loved it.
    Thanks, we're (hopefully) moving to East Finchley early next year, just going through the process now so it's a bit of a hike. We really wanted somewhere with at least 4 bedrooms and a garden and that was out of our price range in Hampstead so it will be goodbye for a while. The fees look ok though and I like the idea of 6-13 rather than ending at 11.

    We've managed to find a really decently sized fixer upper for just under £1.2m that also hasn't had the attic developed, just need to get the thing completed and our current place sold, we just had someone make an offer at asking price so hopefully it's all going to work out.
    Best of luck with the move and the new house, lucky you! :)
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
    Is there such a thing as a pizza without fruit don't they all have tomato sauce on them and tomato is a fruit
    As are olives.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,849
    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
    Is there such a thing as a pizza without fruit don't they all have tomato sauce on them and tomato is a fruit
    Pedant!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,544

    Charles said:

    Reading that lockdowns coming in Northern Ireland as well as Wales now. Not surprising. Will surely happen in England soon after Christmas, and will last for months.

    Just about everything being shut down save for food shopping and schools. Well whoopee. Little Annabel's parents may be on the dole and she may be living off handouts of mealy meal from Unicef, but she'll learn all these fantastic skills to do the various jobs that won't exist when she grows up.

    Incidentally, I've just been watching the Director of Public Health for Luton being interviewed on the local news, and describing the move from tier 2 to tier 3 as useless. The main driver of the illness in her borough is people meeting in the home, which is already covered by the ineffectual tier 2 prohibitions that obviously can't be effectively enforced because we don't live in a police state. Not yet, anyway. She says that hospitality has little to do with transmission in the borough, but it's being shut down regardless. The Government and its scientific advisers are clueless and out of ideas.

    None of this is going to work, is it? The vaccines have been developed at amazing speed, but they're still too late. This is moving into proper scorched earth territory. Large tracts of the economy will no longer exist by the time this is over, and the dwindling number of remaining taxpayers will be left buckling under the weight of mass unemployment and the ever-increasing burden of old people at the same time. There's not much of a future waiting on the other side of this for any of us.

    She clearly knows fuck all then.

    Because tier 3 has worked in northern England.
    Burnham probably wouldn't agree with you that there was any value in shutting hospitality.

    Anyway, we'll see what happens when the new variant really takes hold up there. This is hopeless. It's going to overwhelm everyone.
    I'll pay more attention to the actual data than anything Burnham can say.

    Now perhaps you can discuss things with CHB - he thinks that cases can be reduced to the 10s while you think everyone is going to be overwhelmed.
    On average the two of them are probably right
    Throughout there have been three groups of obsessives:

    1) The doomster obsessives - 'everyone is going to be overwhelmed'
    2) The lockdown obsessives - 'lockdowns forever'
    3) The libertarian obsessives - 'no restrictions ever'

    How many of each type a country gets will vary.

    But we seem to have annoying numbers of all three types in the UK.
    And on PB.
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,194
    Hebridean fisher folk don’t vote for, or donate to, the Tory party. Therefore their interests are of no concern to Boris.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,014

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
    Is there such a thing as a pizza without fruit don't they all have tomato sauce on them and tomato is a fruit
    Pedant!
    I was philitas of cos in a prior life
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,544
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    If you can afford it, The Academy (right behind the Hampstead Butcher & Providore) on the High Street is absolutely fantastic. It's both very academic, and very relaxed.

    My daughter was there and absolutely loved it.
    Thanks, we're (hopefully) moving to East Finchley early next year, just going through the process now so it's a bit of a hike. We really wanted somewhere with at least 4 bedrooms and a garden and that was out of our price range in Hampstead so it will be goodbye for a while. The fees look ok though and I like the idea of 6-13 rather than ending at 11.

    We've managed to find a really decently sized fixer upper for just under £1.2m that also hasn't had the attic developed, just need to get the thing completed and our current place sold, we just had someone make an offer at asking price so hopefully it's all going to work out.
    Good luck :smile:
  • Options
    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
    Is there such a thing as a pizza without fruit don't they all have tomato sauce on them and tomato is a fruit
    Pizza Bianco with Gorgonzola, Parma ham, and walnuts.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,131
    IBAS have released a statement on the US election...

    Not good news for Trump backers, gives exchanges room to settle things before everything is 100% legal watertight. Particularly since that point may be reached years later...

    https://www.ibas-uk.com/media/what-is-the-right-time-to-settle-bets-on-the-us-presidential-election/
    ~
    Perhaps it would be safest to leave bets unsettled for even longer. It wasn’t until 2012 that Lance Armstrong was disqualified as the winner of the 1999 Tour De France.

    We fully understand the concerns that people would hold that their bets have been treated unfairly, particularly if they also have reason to believe that the contest itself was not conducted fairly. However, we also have to consider the practical barriers that come with establishing the end point of a bet. At some stage a decision has to be made that the time is right to say who has won for betting purposes. For the vast majority of bettors, they would prefer that point to be reached sooner rather than later.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,177
    edited December 2020

    Hebridean fisher folk don’t vote for, or donate to, the Tory party. Therefore their interests are of no concern to Boris.

    Similarly, have you ever wondered why the blue rinse brigade is getting vaccinated first? Gotta think about the locals.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Yokes said:

    We should have extended Lockdown 2.0 to be up to Christmas, as I called for at the time.

    We came out far too early, once again the cases were simply not low enough.

    We must get cases down to the 10s before we come out again.

    We are never going to get cases down to the 10s.
    We definitely could if we wanted to.
    Well, we can pursue an elimination strategy. Unfortunately this would involve turning troops out onto the streets, shutting down more or less everything and punishing anybody caught outside the home for virtually any reason with a bullet in the back of the head.

    Nothing short of total, hermetic self-isolation for individual households will stop this thing in its tracks, and that cannot be realistically achieved. We are stuck with it until the vaccination programme gets round enough people to break the chains of transmission. As I said earlier today, trying to suppress Covid is like trying to suppress the common cold. You can slow it down a little with really draconian measures, but those needed to make it stop altogether would kill a large fraction of the whole population. It is hopeless.
    I doubt that. There will be an acceptance that the thing exists. The key issue is protecting the most vulnerable percentage of the population who could end up in hospital plus those who treat them/work with them at close proximity. Despite the buying of 10s of millions of vaccine doses I am not wholly convinced there will be a universal vaccination move by the end of this, it will be similar to flu vaccines where the cohort who are seen as most important to get the jab has widened over time. The rest of us can take our chances. If it was compulsory I'd have few issues getting the jab but if not, I probably wouldn't rush because I have limited consistent exposure to those considered high risk and am otherwise fit and healthy. Speaking to the same stats person who enlightened me on the contribution of schools and universities to the rising test positivity rate (which apparently is the one stat the causal observer needs to pay attention to but probably doesn't), they were of the view that the most critical 10%-15% of the population will be vaccinated before spring. If they can be protected, the hospitalisation rate, which is what really scares the crap out of politicians. is going to fall.

    I've always said since Day 1 of this saga that politicians are primarily driven by the optics of the health service being over-run. Its probably no co-incidence that in Northern Ireland the stories about one hospital having a particularly hard time (and strangely often does be focus of stories about service issues) may have had an impact on the decisions made today. What was less mentioned is that another hospital 15 miles away still has spare capacity.
    10-15%, however long that ends up taking, ought to make a real difference to death rates but the hospitals will still be screaming over admissions. We're going to be nowhere near the end of this until they've at least got as far as lancing everybody over about 60 or 65 and everyone who's medically vulnerable on top of that. The race in that regard is to get them all done before yet another tsunami of new cases crashes on the shore in Autumn 2021. The first half of next year is already a lost cause.

    Only then can we stagger out across the smouldering ruins of the economy and start trying to put everything back together again, though of course that will be hard-to-impossible with the vast numbers of structurally unemployed workers and the ever growing horde of dependent pensioners that what's left of the tax base is going to be expected to carry.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    If you can afford it, The Academy (right behind the Hampstead Butcher & Providore) on the High Street is absolutely fantastic. It's both very academic, and very relaxed.

    My daughter was there and absolutely loved it.
    Thanks, we're (hopefully) moving to East Finchley early next year, just going through the process now so it's a bit of a hike. We really wanted somewhere with at least 4 bedrooms and a garden and that was out of our price range in Hampstead so it will be goodbye for a while. The fees look ok though and I like the idea of 6-13 rather than ending at 11.

    We've managed to find a really decently sized fixer upper for just under £1.2m that also hasn't had the attic developed, just need to get the thing completed and our current place sold, we just had someone make an offer at asking price so hopefully it's all going to work out.
    Best of luck with the move and the new house, lucky you! :)
    Thanks, it's much more stressful than last time as I'd already sold my previous flat and my then gf, now wife, had already sold her flat and we managed to buy this one almost mortgage free. This house much less so. Definitely getting the wage slave feeling at the moment even though we've been extremely lucky with the market supporting a huge price for our flat that I'm surprised it seems to have managed to achieve. I'm definitely looking forwards to having a garden, I legitimately can't wait to be able to have a proper BBQ and somewhere to sit in the summer evenings that isn't a tiny balcony.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,849

    Hebridean fisher folk don’t vote for, or donate to, the Tory party. Therefore their interests are of no concern to Boris.

    Isn't Michael Gove of Hebridean fisher folk?
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    If you can afford it, The Academy (right behind the Hampstead Butcher & Providore) on the High Street is absolutely fantastic. It's both very academic, and very relaxed.

    My daughter was there and absolutely loved it.
    Thanks, we're (hopefully) moving to East Finchley early next year, just going through the process now so it's a bit of a hike. We really wanted somewhere with at least 4 bedrooms and a garden and that was out of our price range in Hampstead so it will be goodbye for a while. The fees look ok though and I like the idea of 6-13 rather than ending at 11.

    We've managed to find a really decently sized fixer upper for just under £1.2m that also hasn't had the attic developed, just need to get the thing completed and our current place sold, we just had someone make an offer at asking price so hopefully it's all going to work out.
    Isn't East Finchley a bit of a shithole ?

    You'll have to describe it as Garden Suburb borders.

    Hope things go well.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,014
    Crabbie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
    Is there such a thing as a pizza without fruit don't they all have tomato sauce on them and tomato is a fruit
    Pizza Bianco with Gorgonzola, Parma ham, and walnuts.
    Sounds like posh food and plebs like me dont get to eat that we order at domino's
  • Options
    Sean, come back!
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    If you can afford it, The Academy (right behind the Hampstead Butcher & Providore) on the High Street is absolutely fantastic. It's both very academic, and very relaxed.

    My daughter was there and absolutely loved it.
    Thanks, we're (hopefully) moving to East Finchley early next year, just going through the process now so it's a bit of a hike. We really wanted somewhere with at least 4 bedrooms and a garden and that was out of our price range in Hampstead so it will be goodbye for a while. The fees look ok though and I like the idea of 6-13 rather than ending at 11.

    We've managed to find a really decently sized fixer upper for just under £1.2m that also hasn't had the attic developed, just need to get the thing completed and our current place sold, we just had someone make an offer at asking price so hopefully it's all going to work out.
    Isn't East Finchley a bit of a shithole ?

    You'll have to describe it as Garden Suburb borders.

    Hope things go well.
    Fortis Green side, so we could probably say Muswell Hill or Fortis Green. :D

    I'm not that fussed, it's what my dad would describe as the worst house on the best street, it needs a lot of work, like a massive amount so even after we move in it's going to be at least a few months until it's actually somewhere nice to live.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,544

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    If you can afford it, The Academy (right behind the Hampstead Butcher & Providore) on the High Street is absolutely fantastic. It's both very academic, and very relaxed.

    My daughter was there and absolutely loved it.
    Thanks, we're (hopefully) moving to East Finchley early next year, just going through the process now so it's a bit of a hike. We really wanted somewhere with at least 4 bedrooms and a garden and that was out of our price range in Hampstead so it will be goodbye for a while. The fees look ok though and I like the idea of 6-13 rather than ending at 11.

    We've managed to find a really decently sized fixer upper for just under £1.2m that also hasn't had the attic developed, just need to get the thing completed and our current place sold, we just had someone make an offer at asking price so hopefully it's all going to work out.
    Isn't East Finchley a bit of a shithole ?

    You'll have to describe it as Garden Suburb borders.

    Hope things go well.
    I thought one said "oh, I'm just off The Bishop's Avenue"
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    Pulpstar said:

    IBAS have released a statement on the US election...

    Not good news for Trump backers, gives exchanges room to settle things before everything is 100% legal watertight. Particularly since that point may be reached years later...

    https://www.ibas-uk.com/media/what-is-the-right-time-to-settle-bets-on-the-us-presidential-election/
    ~
    Perhaps it would be safest to leave bets unsettled for even longer. It wasn’t until 2012 that Lance Armstrong was disqualified as the winner of the 1999 Tour De France.

    We fully understand the concerns that people would hold that their bets have been treated unfairly, particularly if they also have reason to believe that the contest itself was not conducted fairly. However, we also have to consider the practical barriers that come with establishing the end point of a bet. At some stage a decision has to be made that the time is right to say who has won for betting purposes. For the vast majority of bettors, they would prefer that point to be reached sooner rather than later.

    The trouble with Betfair having inadequate rules subject to ad hoc changes, is they satisfied neither side. Betfair could have made clear and authoritative statements but instead management kept its head down while its CS team offered inconsistent advice to different players. And Betfair has form with earlier political markets from which it (and, dare I say, we) apparently learned nothing.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686
    Pagan2 said:

    Crabbie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

    Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

    PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

    Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.
    That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

    Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.
    My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

    Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?
    He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

    We need to bring them back with some common ground.

    Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?
    I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.
    Is there such a thing as a pizza without fruit don't they all have tomato sauce on them and tomato is a fruit
    Pizza Bianco with Gorgonzola, Parma ham, and walnuts.
    Sounds like posh food and plebs like me dont get to eat that we order at domino's
    Eh, I grew up in one of London's most violent estates (so much so that we got relocated and the council shut it down), and I have no need to ever order domino's or anything so awful. Life is what you make of it, 11 year old me on the estate could never have imagined going to the opera but it's one of the things I've missed this year.
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,194

    Hebridean fisher folk don’t vote for, or donate to, the Tory party. Therefore their interests are of no concern to Boris.

    Isn't Michael Gove of Hebridean fisher folk?
    Aberdonian fisher folk. Much more Tory. Although his adoptive parents were Labour.
This discussion has been closed.