This isn’t going to go down well in White House – Trump named “Loser of the Year” – politicalbetting
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This was originally the UK govt's thinking about disruption in the EU. There's no moral high ground, just a power struggle between a larger bloc and a smaller partner.Sandpit said:
So the EU side are now actively pushing for no-deal in January, because they think the disruption will cause UK compromises. Good to know.Scott_xP said:0 -
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:0 -
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Yes its why I am amused by the claims that we will be stuck with british produce. Often the reason we buy eu produce is as much because of eu protectionist tariffs as anything. We already have systems in place to process them so all we really need in those cases is employ more warm bodies as the systems exist.Richard_Tyndall said:
That is already the case in a lot of non EU cases. Certainly with fresh fruit there is a lot more direct shipping between the countries of origin and the UK than the EUphiles like to admit.Pagan2 said:
Surely the answer then is that imports from non eu countries which we already have the wherewithal to deal with and systems get prioritised and then we have time we process the eu imports. That way no disruption for those imports from the rest of the worldRichard_Tyndall said:
The issue is likely to be the ports facing the EU.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Except that if Brexit does block the ports then the ports will be blocked for imports from everywhere, not just the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
That's a really stupid graphic. The two immediate idiocies that spring to mind are:RochdalePioneers said:A handy guide to food post Brexit in the Daily Mail
We don't import bananas or avocados from the EU so there is no reason for them to be affected by the type of Brexit we have. Indeed the vast majority of avocados are imported from Israel and we already have a trade deal signed with them which will reduce tariffs compared to the current EU tariffs.
Norway and Iceland are not in the EU and particularly are not in the Customs Union so do not have to abide by any EU/UK tariff regime. More to the point the UK, Iceland and Norway have already signed a deal to continue to trade in exactly the same way as they do now until a proper trade deal is concluded next year.
Mind you as we have seen the last week, blocked ports is an issue the world over right now. The US is having a massive issue with rotting food because they can't export it through their own ports.
To put some numbers on it. According to the Department of Transport in 2019 we imported 2 million tonnes of agricultural products from EU ports. But we imported 2.8 million tonnes from the US direct and a further half million tonnes from Africa, Asia and Australasia that didn't go through EU ports. Given that the vast majority of that 2 million tonnes imported from the EU ports will be from EU countries, the amount of agricultural products coming from the rest of the world via the EU is tiny.1 -
I think one of the differences is that we import agricultural products from non-EU places but we import a lot of finished food products from the EU. There is definitely going to be some level of disruption to supply chains but I don't think it's going to be as bad as some of the Twitter "experts" are saying.Richard_Tyndall said:
That is already the case in a lot of non EU cases. Certainly with fresh fruit there is a lot more direct shipping between the countries of origin and the UK than the EUphiles like to admit.Pagan2 said:
Surely the answer then is that imports from non eu countries which we already have the wherewithal to deal with and systems get prioritised and then we have time we process the eu imports. That way no disruption for those imports from the rest of the worldRichard_Tyndall said:
The issue is likely to be the ports facing the EU.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Except that if Brexit does block the ports then the ports will be blocked for imports from everywhere, not just the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
That's a really stupid graphic. The two immediate idiocies that spring to mind are:RochdalePioneers said:A handy guide to food post Brexit in the Daily Mail
We don't import bananas or avocados from the EU so there is no reason for them to be affected by the type of Brexit we have. Indeed the vast majority of avocados are imported from Israel and we already have a trade deal signed with them which will reduce tariffs compared to the current EU tariffs.
Norway and Iceland are not in the EU and particularly are not in the Customs Union so do not have to abide by any EU/UK tariff regime. More to the point the UK, Iceland and Norway have already signed a deal to continue to trade in exactly the same way as they do now until a proper trade deal is concluded next year.
Mind you as we have seen the last week, blocked ports is an issue the world over right now. The US is having a massive issue with rotting food because they can't export it through their own ports.
To put some numbers on it. According to the Department of Transport in 2019 we imported 2 million tonnes of agricultural products from EU ports. But we imported 2.8 million tonnes from the US direct and a further half million tonnes from Africa, Asia and Australasia that didn't go through EU ports. Given that the vast majority of that 2 million tonnes imported from the EU ports will be from EU countries, the amount of agricultural products coming from the rest of the world via the EU is tiny.3 -
Most of those finished products will also be available from non eu sourcesMaxPB said:
I think one of the differences is that we import agricultural products from non-EU places but we import a lot of finished food products from the EU. There is definitely going to be some level of disruption to supply chains but I don't think it's going to be as bad as some of the Twitter "experts" are saying.Richard_Tyndall said:
That is already the case in a lot of non EU cases. Certainly with fresh fruit there is a lot more direct shipping between the countries of origin and the UK than the EUphiles like to admit.Pagan2 said:
Surely the answer then is that imports from non eu countries which we already have the wherewithal to deal with and systems get prioritised and then we have time we process the eu imports. That way no disruption for those imports from the rest of the worldRichard_Tyndall said:
The issue is likely to be the ports facing the EU.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Except that if Brexit does block the ports then the ports will be blocked for imports from everywhere, not just the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
That's a really stupid graphic. The two immediate idiocies that spring to mind are:RochdalePioneers said:A handy guide to food post Brexit in the Daily Mail
We don't import bananas or avocados from the EU so there is no reason for them to be affected by the type of Brexit we have. Indeed the vast majority of avocados are imported from Israel and we already have a trade deal signed with them which will reduce tariffs compared to the current EU tariffs.
Norway and Iceland are not in the EU and particularly are not in the Customs Union so do not have to abide by any EU/UK tariff regime. More to the point the UK, Iceland and Norway have already signed a deal to continue to trade in exactly the same way as they do now until a proper trade deal is concluded next year.
Mind you as we have seen the last week, blocked ports is an issue the world over right now. The US is having a massive issue with rotting food because they can't export it through their own ports.
To put some numbers on it. According to the Department of Transport in 2019 we imported 2 million tonnes of agricultural products from EU ports. But we imported 2.8 million tonnes from the US direct and a further half million tonnes from Africa, Asia and Australasia that didn't go through EU ports. Given that the vast majority of that 2 million tonnes imported from the EU ports will be from EU countries, the amount of agricultural products coming from the rest of the world via the EU is tiny.0 -
Actually more like 11,000, given that 8,000 is pretty much the usual daily death rate.Scott_xP said:1 -
Is that the HYUFD school of diplomacy?rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1337512413374058496
Might as well be the early 1900s.0 -
I agree with the principle and whats more so does the industry. Finding "cost to serve" efficiencies has been a focus for a good few years now. The problem is that what you are suggesting is likely to add cost not reduce it.Pagan2 said:Is your company the only one importing canadian oats? I doubt it in which case they just combine all the canadian oats on to however many ships rather than have it delievered as a mixed shipment.
Secondly why does off loading in ireland first then shipping to the uk cost more than offloading in the uk then shipping to ireland?. Your argument is based on "This is how we do it now". What will happen is companies will look at the best way of doing it then when we finally get told the rules.
I am totally behind the arguments that companies should know by now. Just not behind the argument that how we currently do it will be how we do it in the future
If you are an exporter to the EU market currently shipping it all in one bulk shipment via Zeebrugge, why is it in your interest to change it so that the UK bit is done separately? Again all things are possible at a price.
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It's the post-Falklands, neo-imperial and seaborne delusions form of diplomacy. Buccaneers, the open seas.solarflare said:
Is that the HYUFD school of diplomacy?rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1337512413374058496
Might as well be the early 1900s.0 -
I will be sure to ask the bloke in the chippy next week. "This Cod, has it been fished illegally from Germany?"Pagan2 said:
Most of what we eat we import from countries outside of the EURochdalePioneers said:
In those several years will there be an outward migration of all the fish currently here that we don't eat, and in inward migration of all those foreign fish we do like to eat?Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Its simple to work out apparently...
For example Cod
https://www.statista.com/statistics/511023/cod-import-value-united-kingdom-uk-country-of-origin/#:~:text=Fisheries & Aquaculture-,Cod import value to the United Kingdom (UK,2016, by country of origin&text=This statistic shows the total,to the UK from Iceland.
And most of that german Cod we should be boycotting due to its being fished illegaly
https://balticeye.org/en/fisheries/denmark-and-germany-continue-to-catch-cod---despite-ban/1 -
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:0 -
2
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If you have 100 tons to ship and the eu wants 80 tons and the uk wants 20 tons....are you going to say ah well too difficult we will ship the 80 tons and throw away the 20 tons or are you going to still ship the 20 tons and maybe charge a little more or maybe take less profit on it rather than waste it.RochdalePioneers said:
I agree with the principle and whats more so does the industry. Finding "cost to serve" efficiencies has been a focus for a good few years now. The problem is that what you are suggesting is likely to add cost not reduce it.Pagan2 said:Is your company the only one importing canadian oats? I doubt it in which case they just combine all the canadian oats on to however many ships rather than have it delievered as a mixed shipment.
Secondly why does off loading in ireland first then shipping to the uk cost more than offloading in the uk then shipping to ireland?. Your argument is based on "This is how we do it now". What will happen is companies will look at the best way of doing it then when we finally get told the rules.
I am totally behind the arguments that companies should know by now. Just not behind the argument that how we currently do it will be how we do it in the future
If you are an exporter to the EU market currently shipping it all in one bulk shipment via Zeebrugge, why is it in your interest to change it so that the UK bit is done separately? Again all things are possible at a price.
I suspect yes a little cost extra and a little less profit will be whats settled on in the short term and in the middle term they will sort things so they ship to both places with no extra cost. Maybe by consortiums of companies sharing for example an oat transport ship0 -
How would Iceland or Norway or indeed any fishing nation defend their fish from illegal fishing boatsWhisperingOracle said:
It's the post-Falklands, neo-imperial and seaborne delusions form of diplomacy. Buccaneers, the open seas.solarflare said:
Is that the HYUFD school of diplomacy?rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1337512413374058496
Might as well be the early 1900s.
0 -
I always voted at my party's call,Foxy said:
And I never thought of thinking for myself at all.
(He never thought of thinking for himself at all.)
I thought so little, they rewarded me
By making me the Ruler of the Queen's Navy!1 -
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.0 -
Shrugs euphiles often are on here saying the CFP is a good thing and a reason why we should stay bound by their rules....just showing you that the eu isn't that good when certain countries break the rules, volkswagen all overRochdalePioneers said:
I will be sure to ask the bloke in the chippy next week. "This Cod, has it been fished illegally from Germany?"Pagan2 said:
Most of what we eat we import from countries outside of the EURochdalePioneers said:
In those several years will there be an outward migration of all the fish currently here that we don't eat, and in inward migration of all those foreign fish we do like to eat?Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Its simple to work out apparently...
For example Cod
https://www.statista.com/statistics/511023/cod-import-value-united-kingdom-uk-country-of-origin/#:~:text=Fisheries & Aquaculture-,Cod import value to the United Kingdom (UK,2016, by country of origin&text=This statistic shows the total,to the UK from Iceland.
And most of that german Cod we should be boycotting due to its being fished illegaly
https://balticeye.org/en/fisheries/denmark-and-germany-continue-to-catch-cod---despite-ban/0 -
Defund the WHO:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/11/who-accused-conspiring-italy-remove-damning-covid-report
The World Health Organization has been accused of conspiring with the Italian health ministry to remove a report revealing the country’s mismanagement at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic – the publication of which was intended to prevent future deaths.0 -
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:0 -
Probably with a consensual agreement with neighbours, going on recent rather than pre-modern nordic history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
How would Iceland or Norway or indeed any fishing nation defend their fish from illegal fishing boatsWhisperingOracle said:
It's the post-Falklands, neo-imperial and seaborne delusions form of diplomacy. Buccaneers, the open seas.solarflare said:
Is that the HYUFD school of diplomacy?rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1337512413374058496
Might as well be the early 1900s.0 -
Like with anything, it will depend if anyone else can supply it cheaper in the same quantities direct to a British port. Otherwise they'll just say: "you can have your 20 tons but it now costs 50% more".Pagan2 said:
If you have 100 tons to ship and the eu wants 80 tons and the uk wants 20 tons....are you going to say ah well too difficult we will ship the 80 tons and throw away the 20 tons or are you going to still ship the 20 tons and maybe charge a little more or maybe take less profit on it rather than waste it.RochdalePioneers said:
I agree with the principle and whats more so does the industry. Finding "cost to serve" efficiencies has been a focus for a good few years now. The problem is that what you are suggesting is likely to add cost not reduce it.Pagan2 said:Is your company the only one importing canadian oats? I doubt it in which case they just combine all the canadian oats on to however many ships rather than have it delievered as a mixed shipment.
Secondly why does off loading in ireland first then shipping to the uk cost more than offloading in the uk then shipping to ireland?. Your argument is based on "This is how we do it now". What will happen is companies will look at the best way of doing it then when we finally get told the rules.
I am totally behind the arguments that companies should know by now. Just not behind the argument that how we currently do it will be how we do it in the future
If you are an exporter to the EU market currently shipping it all in one bulk shipment via Zeebrugge, why is it in your interest to change it so that the UK bit is done separately? Again all things are possible at a price.
I suspect yes a little cost extra and a little less profit will be whats settled on in the short term and in the middle term they will sort things so they ship to both places with no extra cost. Maybe by consortiums of companies sharing for example an oat transport ship0 -
Why bother with actual journalism - going out and talking to people, finding out what’s happening - when you can instead spend your ‘working’ day retweeting sarcastic memes at each other.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like a kindergartenScott_xP said:1 -
Well he isn't a journalist so what is your point?Sandpit said:
Why bother with actual journalism - going out and talking to people, finding out what’s happening - when you can instead spend your ‘working’ day retweeting sarcastic memes at each other.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like a kindergartenScott_xP said:0 -
"Features distorted in the flickering lightrottenborough said:
The faces are twisted and grotesque
Silent and stern in the sweltering night
The mob moves like demons possessed
Quiet in conscience, calm in their right
Confident their ways are best"
- Peart, Lifeson, Lee 19810 -
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland0 -
We’ll doubtless be told it was swimming toward the Uk at the time....RochdalePioneers said:
I will be sure to ask the bloke in the chippy next week. "This Cod, has it been fished illegally from Germany?"Pagan2 said:
Most of what we eat we import from countries outside of the EURochdalePioneers said:
In those several years will there be an outward migration of all the fish currently here that we don't eat, and in inward migration of all those foreign fish we do like to eat?Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Its simple to work out apparently...
For example Cod
https://www.statista.com/statistics/511023/cod-import-value-united-kingdom-uk-country-of-origin/#:~:text=Fisheries & Aquaculture-,Cod import value to the United Kingdom (UK,2016, by country of origin&text=This statistic shows the total,to the UK from Iceland.
And most of that german Cod we should be boycotting due to its being fished illegaly
https://balticeye.org/en/fisheries/denmark-and-germany-continue-to-catch-cod---despite-ban/1 -
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:1 -
Because it's laughable we're even in this position. It's especially laughable that the reaction of those who said it was "all going to be fine" in 2016 is not "let's rationally sort this out" but instead "fire up the Royal Navy".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
It's the continued WW2 war fantasy on steroids and it's frankly pathetic.6 -
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:0 -
So what?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Shall we reopen all the mines so you guys can relive your childhoods too?
Fishing as you remember it is the past and will remain in the past.0 -
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:0 -
That is from a viewpoint that supports the EU but an equal number do not and would want to defend our fishing watersGallowgate said:
Because it's laughable we're even in this position. It's especially laughable that the reaction of those who said it was "all going to be fine" in 2016 is not "let's rationally sort this out" but instead "fire up the Royal Navy".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
It's the continued WW2 war fantasy on steroids and it's frankly pathetic.
I assume you are not backing the illegal fishing of foreign boats0 -
The story in the article (which you claim is tantamount to blackmail) does not even mention fishing. Go to bed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland0 -
And quite right too.Scott_xP said:
This is one of the things where ultra Remainers cheer the EU taking punitive measures but condemn the UK if it does the same.
It's why they don't earn themselves an audience on the subject.2 -
In the grand scheme of problems that face this country, a completely self imposed problem like this is quite frankly right at the bottom of my priority list. I really couldn't give a hoot.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is from a viewpoint that supports the EU but an equal number do not and would want to defend our fishing watersGallowgate said:
Because it's laughable we're even in this position. It's especially laughable that the reaction of those who said it was "all going to be fine" in 2016 is not "let's rationally sort this out" but instead "fire up the Royal Navy".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
It's the continued WW2 war fantasy on steroids and it's frankly pathetic.
I assume you are not backing the illegal fishing of foreign boats0 -
It’s pathetic and sickening that the Mail should publish a headline about gunboats on the eve of a critical deal with the EU.Gallowgate said:
Because it's laughable we're even in this position. It's especially laughable that the reaction of those who said it was "all going to be fine" in 2016 is not "let's rationally sort this out" but instead "fire up the Royal Navy".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
It's the continued WW2 war fantasy on steroids and it's frankly pathetic.0 -
No it is not by any stretch of the imagination and frankly your remarks are absurdGallowgate said:
So what?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Shall we reopen all the mines so you guys can relive your childhoods too?
Fishing as you remember it is the past and will remain in the past.
This happened when we joined the EU and after and most certainly was not in our childhood1 -
Because you have never cared about the harm done to the people by the eu. You have been always "I am ok" typical lawyerGallowgate said:
In the grand scheme of problems that face this country, a completely self imposed problem like this is quite frankly right at the bottom of my priority list. I really couldn't give a hoot.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is from a viewpoint that supports the EU but an equal number do not and would want to defend our fishing watersGallowgate said:
Because it's laughable we're even in this position. It's especially laughable that the reaction of those who said it was "all going to be fine" in 2016 is not "let's rationally sort this out" but instead "fire up the Royal Navy".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
It's the continued WW2 war fantasy on steroids and it's frankly pathetic.
I assume you are not backing the illegal fishing of foreign boats1 -
Johnson's about to get booted out of the largest market in the world and Trump's named 'Loser of the year'!
No wonder Trump thinks it's a fix.0 -
You have missed the point quite spectacularly.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it is not by any stretch of the imagination and frankly your remarks are absurdGallowgate said:
So what?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Shall we reopen all the mines so you guys can relive your childhoods too?
Fishing as you remember it is the past and will remain in the past.
This happened when we joined the EU and after and most certainly was not in our childhood0 -
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:1 -
There may be some modest price rises because bananas and avocados now have to go direct to Felixstowe in a different boat rather than to Rotterdam and then Felixstowe in the same boat but there will be no problems with supply as we have free trade deals with all the source countries.RochdalePioneers said:
Two immediate idiocies in what you have posted. We almost certainly import bananas and avocados from Belgium rather than from Israel or Ivory Coast. The EU is a vast market, so bulk imports come into a port for warehousing and then onward distribution to the final market like the UK. The Daily Mail puts these on their list because they are EU imports.Richard_Tyndall said:
That's a really stupid graphic. The two immediate idiocies that spring to mind are:RochdalePioneers said:A handy guide to food post Brexit in the Daily Mail
We don't import bananas or avocados from the EU so there is no reason for them to be affected by the type of Brexit we have. Indeed the vast majority of avocados are imported from Israel and we already have a trade deal signed with them which will reduce tariffs compared to the current EU tariffs.
Norway and Iceland are not in the EU and particularly are not in the Customs Union so do not have to abide by any EU/UK tariff regime. More to the point the UK, Iceland and Norway have already signed a deal to continue to trade in exactly the same way as they do now until a proper trade deal is concluded next year.
Yes we can set up direct import routes for Bananas and Avocados and Oranges and everything else that we import via the EU but it will be low volume high cost additions to the current business model and that will bang the unit price up.
As for fish, the point the Mail is making is that according to our government there is going to be major disruption to our ports. And quite frankly they're trying to educate the wazzocks who think that saving British Fishing liberates Fish and Chips.
'Yes that is a chippy. Yes those are fishing boats. No they haven't caught the cod the chippy across the road is preparing for you because Cod don't swing in these waters you dumb bastards.'
My view is the market will find the most efficient route to keep costs down to a minimum.
Honestly it's a silly thing to hang your hat on. If you're going to take umbrage at No Deal then focus on the EU perishable food products that are really effected.2 -
Is there anything we can't source from elsewhere except tulips ?Casino_Royale said:
There may be some modest price rises because bananas and avocados now have to go direct to Felixstowe in a different boat rather than to Rotterdam and then Felixstowe in the same boat but there will be no problems with supply as we have free trade deals with all the source countries.RochdalePioneers said:
Two immediate idiocies in what you have posted. We almost certainly import bananas and avocados from Belgium rather than from Israel or Ivory Coast. The EU is a vast market, so bulk imports come into a port for warehousing and then onward distribution to the final market like the UK. The Daily Mail puts these on their list because they are EU imports.Richard_Tyndall said:
That's a really stupid graphic. The two immediate idiocies that spring to mind are:RochdalePioneers said:A handy guide to food post Brexit in the Daily Mail
We don't import bananas or avocados from the EU so there is no reason for them to be affected by the type of Brexit we have. Indeed the vast majority of avocados are imported from Israel and we already have a trade deal signed with them which will reduce tariffs compared to the current EU tariffs.
Norway and Iceland are not in the EU and particularly are not in the Customs Union so do not have to abide by any EU/UK tariff regime. More to the point the UK, Iceland and Norway have already signed a deal to continue to trade in exactly the same way as they do now until a proper trade deal is concluded next year.
Yes we can set up direct import routes for Bananas and Avocados and Oranges and everything else that we import via the EU but it will be low volume high cost additions to the current business model and that will bang the unit price up.
As for fish, the point the Mail is making is that according to our government there is going to be major disruption to our ports. And quite frankly they're trying to educate the wazzocks who think that saving British Fishing liberates Fish and Chips.
'Yes that is a chippy. Yes those are fishing boats. No they haven't caught the cod the chippy across the road is preparing for you because Cod don't swing in these waters you dumb bastards.'
My view is the market will find the most efficient route to keep costs down to a minimum.
Honestly it's a silly thing to hang your hat on. If you're going to take umbrage at No Deal then focus on the EU perishable food products that are really effected.0 -
Excellent. And you should be cheering this.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1337512413374058496
Might as well be the early 1900s.
If you want a Deal then you should be cheering the UK making clear to the EU the consequences of No Deal just as the EU has threatened to ground British flights and fish in UK waters anyway to get it to do a Deal.0 -
True. But the original point of disagreement was over the import of things like bananas. The vast majority of those never go anywhere near an EU port but are brought in directly from the country of origin.MaxPB said:
I think one of the differences is that we import agricultural products from non-EU places but we import a lot of finished food products from the EU. There is definitely going to be some level of disruption to supply chains but I don't think it's going to be as bad as some of the Twitter "experts" are saying.Richard_Tyndall said:
That is already the case in a lot of non EU cases. Certainly with fresh fruit there is a lot more direct shipping between the countries of origin and the UK than the EUphiles like to admit.Pagan2 said:
Surely the answer then is that imports from non eu countries which we already have the wherewithal to deal with and systems get prioritised and then we have time we process the eu imports. That way no disruption for those imports from the rest of the worldRichard_Tyndall said:
The issue is likely to be the ports facing the EU.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Except that if Brexit does block the ports then the ports will be blocked for imports from everywhere, not just the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
That's a really stupid graphic. The two immediate idiocies that spring to mind are:RochdalePioneers said:A handy guide to food post Brexit in the Daily Mail
We don't import bananas or avocados from the EU so there is no reason for them to be affected by the type of Brexit we have. Indeed the vast majority of avocados are imported from Israel and we already have a trade deal signed with them which will reduce tariffs compared to the current EU tariffs.
Norway and Iceland are not in the EU and particularly are not in the Customs Union so do not have to abide by any EU/UK tariff regime. More to the point the UK, Iceland and Norway have already signed a deal to continue to trade in exactly the same way as they do now until a proper trade deal is concluded next year.
Mind you as we have seen the last week, blocked ports is an issue the world over right now. The US is having a massive issue with rotting food because they can't export it through their own ports.
To put some numbers on it. According to the Department of Transport in 2019 we imported 2 million tonnes of agricultural products from EU ports. But we imported 2.8 million tonnes from the US direct and a further half million tonnes from Africa, Asia and Australasia that didn't go through EU ports. Given that the vast majority of that 2 million tonnes imported from the EU ports will be from EU countries, the amount of agricultural products coming from the rest of the world via the EU is tiny.0 -
-
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!0 -
Let me ask you a question. What is the general policy goal here?Pagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Is it to maximise the economic value to the UK of Britain's fishing stock?
If so, we should treat it like we do oil & gas and allow anyone to bid on quotas, and to maximise revenue for the Exchequor.
Is it to maximise employment in the UK?
In which case, we should probably do as above, but contain a provision requiring that all catches are landed in the UK.
Is it to create a competitive UK fishing fleet, that can compete with the Japanese, the Koreans, the Canadians and the Norwegians?
In which case we want policies that encourage the purchase of large vessels that can stay afloat for months at an end.
Or is it to maintain the way of life of traditional fishermen?
Without tariffs on foreign imports, British fishemen in small boats are not going to be competitive.
Your skipper was in tears because it wasn't economic to be a fisherman. And it wasn't economic because his unit costs were 3x that of some of his competitors. He'd use more labour and more fuel to bring ashore a kilo of fish than peers.
Selling quotas was the logical response to that.
But if there hadn't been quotas to sell, he'd still have stopped fishing. Because what stopped him was the fact that he was earning massively less than minimum wage for a back breaking job.1 -
Maybe you need to show at least some courtesy even when disagreeing but is this the way Lib Dems expect to win over supportGardenwalker said:
The story in the article (which you claim is tantamount to blackmail) does not even mention fishing. Go to bed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
How many mps have you got in the HOC these days0 -
As I have said before I find it ironic that the same people who attacked the closure of the mines are now immersed in the attacks on fossil fuels.Gallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!1 -
It’s not blackmail, it’s a threatGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
Do the deal we tell you to now or we will duck you over in January2 -
When we joined the EU, our territorial waters were 3 miles offshore. Indeed we were illegally fishing in Icelandic waters, complaining because they had extended their waters to 50 miles. At that time Britain was a strong advocate of international freedom of the seas. We only extended our waters to 200 miles in 1982.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it is not by any stretch of the imagination and frankly your remarks are absurdGallowgate said:
So what?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Shall we reopen all the mines so you guys can relive your childhoods too?
Fishing as you remember it is the past and will remain in the past.
This happened when we joined the EU and after and most certainly was not in our childhood0 -
For the avoidance of doubt, I don't actually want the mines to reopen...Richard_Tyndall said:
As I have said before I find it ironic that the same people who attacked the closure of the mines are now immersed in the attacks on fossil fuels.Gallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!0 -
I do not often agree with you upon this I doGardenwalker said:
It’s pathetic and sickening that the Mail should publish a headline about gunboats on the eve of a critical deal with the EU.Gallowgate said:
Because it's laughable we're even in this position. It's especially laughable that the reaction of those who said it was "all going to be fine" in 2016 is not "let's rationally sort this out" but instead "fire up the Royal Navy".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
It's the continued WW2 war fantasy on steroids and it's frankly pathetic.
And this is after you rudely told me to 'go to bed'0 -
Well they're clearly wrong as "no deal" is going to be fab so what on earth is the problem? Why is anyone bothered?Charles said:
It’s not blackmail, it’s a threatGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
Do the deal we tell you to now or we will duck you over in January0 -
I don't support No Deal and I think the UK is being reckless on a LPF position I now think is acceptable but my position changes on 1st January.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
If we're out without any Deal then there's no going back.0 -
Sums up Brexit in a nutshell . The UK has become a global laughing stock. From London 2012 to this all because of a Tory psycho drama over Europe .Gallowgate said:
Because it's laughable we're even in this position. It's especially laughable that the reaction of those who said it was "all going to be fine" in 2016 is not "let's rationally sort this out" but instead "fire up the Royal Navy".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
It's the continued WW2 war fantasy on steroids and it's frankly pathetic.2 -
I have no idea.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe you need to show at least some courtesy even when disagreeing but is this the way Lib Dems expect to win over supportGardenwalker said:
The story in the article (which you claim is tantamount to blackmail) does not even mention fishing. Go to bed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
How many mps have you got in the HOC these days
But I am content that I did not vote to humiliate and dismember the country, as you fear you might have done during your wibbly moments.0 -
That image is a keeper.....Scott_xP said:1 -
The difference is mines were not economic and needed public subsidy compared to imports whereas british fishing was both profitable and flourishing until politicians gave the rights of 80% of our fish away to the eec in the 70'sGallowgate said:
For the avoidance of doubt, I don't actually want the mines to reopen...Richard_Tyndall said:
As I have said before I find it ironic that the same people who attacked the closure of the mines are now immersed in the attacks on fossil fuels.Gallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!0 -
You might want to recall why the evil EU and many other countries around the world imposed fishing quotas. It was called the "collapse of fish stocks". Basically, the fishing fleets of the world hoovered the seas clean of fish.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it is not by any stretch of the imagination and frankly your remarks are absurdGallowgate said:
So what?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Shall we reopen all the mines so you guys can relive your childhoods too?
Fishing as you remember it is the past and will remain in the past.
This happened when we joined the EU and after and most certainly was not in our childhood5 -
If you have someone breaking the law shouldn’t you use the police (or coastguard) to prevent that?Gallowgate said:
Because it's laughable we're even in this position. It's especially laughable that the reaction of those who said it was "all going to be fine" in 2016 is not "let's rationally sort this out" but instead "fire up the Royal Navy".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
It's the continued WW2 war fantasy on steroids and it's frankly pathetic.
The mail is being hyperbolic but what’s new1 -
There is a very big difference between coal and sustainable fish and fishingGallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!
0 -
People who support the mines use the same rubbish argument. "bUt tHEy wERe PrOfITable"Pagan2 said:
The difference is mines were not economic and needed public subsidy compared to imports whereas british fishing was both profitable and flourishing until politicians gave the rights of 80% of our fish away to the eec in the 70'sGallowgate said:
For the avoidance of doubt, I don't actually want the mines to reopen...Richard_Tyndall said:
As I have said before I find it ironic that the same people who attacked the closure of the mines are now immersed in the attacks on fossil fuels.Gallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!
The fact is that Thatcher, despite her many faults, moved us on as a nation to bigger and better things than fishing and mining.0 -
Prince Andrew's sex slave alibi falls apart: Explosive dossier blows a hole in 'Pizza Express' excuse, and shows he had a manicure booked on day Virginia Roberts claims she slept with him... but investigation questions her story too
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9044879/Prince-Andrews-sex-slave-alibi-falls-apart-Explosive-dossier-blows-hole-Pizza-Express-excuse.html0 -
And, so are we.Gardenwalker said:2 -
To be honest you sound very bothered indeedGallowgate said:
Well they're clearly wrong as "no deal" is going to be fab so what on earth is the problem? Why is anyone bothered?Charles said:
It’s not blackmail, it’s a threatGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
Do the deal we tell you to now or we will duck you over in January0 -
Whatever helps you justify it. With all due respect it is hypocrisy and nothing more.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There is a very big difference between coal and sustainable fish and fishingGallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!0 -
In the 1970's when british had there own waters they were recovering and 10% of fish species were classed by scientists as over fished. By 2020 after years of the cfp 95% of fish species are over fishedBeibheirli_C said:
You might want to recall why the evil EU and many other countries around the world imposed fishing quotas. It was called the "collapse of fish stocks". Basically, the fishing fleets of the world hoovered the seas clean of fish.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it is not by any stretch of the imagination and frankly your remarks are absurdGallowgate said:
So what?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Shall we reopen all the mines so you guys can relive your childhoods too?
Fishing as you remember it is the past and will remain in the past.
This happened when we joined the EU and after and most certainly was not in our childhood
“The track record of fisheries managment in Europe has been disasterous. The number of fish stocks classified as seriously overfished rose from 10 per cent in 1970 to 50 per cent by 2000. With so much expertise, how did things go so badly wrong?” (p 346)
source
https://britishseafishing.co.uk/common-fisheries-policy-cfp/
2 -
I really have no idea how supporting a UK fishing industry is hypocrisy when coal is a fossil fuelGallowgate said:
Whatever helps you justify it. With all due respect it is hypocrisy and nothing more.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There is a very big difference between coal and sustainable fish and fishingGallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!0 -
Sure but many crimes go unpunished on a daily basis. Fishing "illegally" is unimportant in the grand scheme of things. It is especially not something to get your knickers in a twist over.Charles said:
If you have someone breaking the law shouldn’t you use the police (or coastguard) to prevent that?Gallowgate said:
Because it's laughable we're even in this position. It's especially laughable that the reaction of those who said it was "all going to be fine" in 2016 is not "let's rationally sort this out" but instead "fire up the Royal Navy".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
It's the continued WW2 war fantasy on steroids and it's frankly pathetic.
The mail is being hyperbolic but what’s new0 -
Yeah, one lot voted Labour, the others did not.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There is a very big difference between coal and sustainable fish and fishingGallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!0 -
-
I voted remain and not for BorisGardenwalker said:
I have no idea.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe you need to show at least some courtesy even when disagreeing but is this the way Lib Dems expect to win over supportGardenwalker said:
The story in the article (which you claim is tantamount to blackmail) does not even mention fishing. Go to bed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
How many mps have you got in the HOC these days
But I am content that I did not vote to humiliate and dismember the country, as you fear you might have done during your wibbly moments.0 -
All they have said is, whilst sovereignty over sea territory and the harvest underneath is disputed, we stay in talks, and we keep the status quo.Charles said:
It’s not blackmail, it’s a threatGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
Do the deal we tell you to now or we will duck you over in January
The people pushing this blackmail line, the people who have created this crisis in our country and our economy, need to be taken off media and social media just like the anti vaxxers shouldn’t be given air time. Including this site, brexiteers should be suspended for pushing this narrative in the same way the anti vaxxers need to be because they are dangerous in their insanity. We have taken freedom of speech far too far in recent times, so that we are following voices from out the nature state, not civilisation.
There is no sovereignty out there under the oceans on those fish stocks. It’s a fantasy between peoples ears. The science is absolutely black and white. We won’t have enough cod to feed the British appetite without a trade on catches with our neighbours.
If you go strictly to sovereignty and not the science, Londoners will have to eat haddock.
Brexit Britain has no choice but to trade. Simples.0 -
Flipping hamburgers and flipping houses?Gallowgate said:
People who support the mines use the same rubbish argument. "bUt tHEy wERe PrOfITable"Pagan2 said:
The difference is mines were not economic and needed public subsidy compared to imports whereas british fishing was both profitable and flourishing until politicians gave the rights of 80% of our fish away to the eec in the 70'sGallowgate said:
For the avoidance of doubt, I don't actually want the mines to reopen...Richard_Tyndall said:
As I have said before I find it ironic that the same people who attacked the closure of the mines are now immersed in the attacks on fossil fuels.Gallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!
The fact is that Thatcher, despite her many faults, moved us on as a nation to bigger and better things than fishing and mining.0 -
And noble professions they are too.Foxy said:
Flipping hamburgers and flipping houses?Gallowgate said:
People who support the mines use the same rubbish argument. "bUt tHEy wERe PrOfITable"Pagan2 said:
The difference is mines were not economic and needed public subsidy compared to imports whereas british fishing was both profitable and flourishing until politicians gave the rights of 80% of our fish away to the eec in the 70'sGallowgate said:
For the avoidance of doubt, I don't actually want the mines to reopen...Richard_Tyndall said:
As I have said before I find it ironic that the same people who attacked the closure of the mines are now immersed in the attacks on fossil fuels.Gallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!
The fact is that Thatcher, despite her many faults, moved us on as a nation to bigger and better things than fishing and mining.0 -
Of course, the U.K. must protect its interests in the event of a No Deal.Casino_Royale said:
And, so are we.Gardenwalker said:
But talk of gunboats is juvenile and irresponsible. And Daniel K is a cretin’s cretin. You should know better than to endorse his entrails.0 -
Can we therefore remove people like you from all social media and this site as you are giving fake newsgealbhan said:
All they have said is, whilst sovereignty over sea territory and the harvest underneath is disputed, we stay in talks, and we keep the status quo.Charles said:
It’s not blackmail, it’s a threatGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
Do the deal we tell you to now or we will duck you over in January
The people pushing this blackmail line, the people who have created this crisis in our country and our economy, need to be taken off media and social media just like the anti vaxxers shouldn’t be given air time. Including this site, brexiteers should be suspended for pushing this narrative in the same way the anti vaxxers need to be because they are dangerous in their insanity. We have taken freedom of speech far too far in recent times, so that we are following voices from out the nature state, not civilisation.
There is no sovereignty out there under the oceans on those fish stocks. It’s a fantasy between peoples ears. The science is absolutely black and white. We won’t have enough cod to feed the British appetite without a trade on catches with our neighbours.
If you go strictly to sovereignty and not the science, Londoners will have to eat haddock.
Brexit Britain has no choice but to trade. Simples.1 -
So, if we had loads of fish, why did we indulge in popping up to Iceland to steal their fish?Pagan2 said:
In the 1970's when british had there own waters they were recovering and 10% of fish species were classed by scientists as over fished. By 2020 after years of the cfp 95% of fish species are over fishedBeibheirli_C said:
You might want to recall why the evil EU and many other countries around the world imposed fishing quotas. It was called the "collapse of fish stocks". Basically, the fishing fleets of the world hoovered the seas clean of fish.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it is not by any stretch of the imagination and frankly your remarks are absurdGallowgate said:
So what?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Shall we reopen all the mines so you guys can relive your childhoods too?
Fishing as you remember it is the past and will remain in the past.
This happened when we joined the EU and after and most certainly was not in our childhood
“The track record of fisheries managment in Europe has been disasterous. The number of fish stocks classified as seriously overfished rose from 10 per cent in 1970 to 50 per cent by 2000. With so much expertise, how did things go so badly wrong?” (p 346)
source
https://britishseafishing.co.uk/common-fisheries-policy-cfp/
https://britishseafishing.co.uk/the-cod-wars/0 -
What this boils down to is a few months disruption whilst the new supply lines bed in and establish and we adjust to the new systems, general price rises of 2-5% and a mixture of medium-high tarrifs on exclusive EU products, which will mean people will generally buy much less of them and start buying them elsewhere - unless speciality.Pagan2 said:
Is there anything we can't source from elsewhere except tulips ?Casino_Royale said:
There may be some modest price rises because bananas and avocados now have to go direct to Felixstowe in a different boat rather than to Rotterdam and then Felixstowe in the same boat but there will be no problems with supply as we have free trade deals with all the source countries.RochdalePioneers said:
Two immediate idiocies in what you have posted. We almost certainly import bananas and avocados from Belgium rather than from Israel or Ivory Coast. The EU is a vast market, so bulk imports come into a port for warehousing and then onward distribution to the final market like the UK. The Daily Mail puts these on their list because they are EU imports.Richard_Tyndall said:
That's a really stupid graphic. The two immediate idiocies that spring to mind are:RochdalePioneers said:A handy guide to food post Brexit in the Daily Mail
We don't import bananas or avocados from the EU so there is no reason for them to be affected by the type of Brexit we have. Indeed the vast majority of avocados are imported from Israel and we already have a trade deal signed with them which will reduce tariffs compared to the current EU tariffs.
Norway and Iceland are not in the EU and particularly are not in the Customs Union so do not have to abide by any EU/UK tariff regime. More to the point the UK, Iceland and Norway have already signed a deal to continue to trade in exactly the same way as they do now until a proper trade deal is concluded next year.
Yes we can set up direct import routes for Bananas and Avocados and Oranges and everything else that we import via the EU but it will be low volume high cost additions to the current business model and that will bang the unit price up.
As for fish, the point the Mail is making is that according to our government there is going to be major disruption to our ports. And quite frankly they're trying to educate the wazzocks who think that saving British Fishing liberates Fish and Chips.
'Yes that is a chippy. Yes those are fishing boats. No they haven't caught the cod the chippy across the road is preparing for you because Cod don't swing in these waters you dumb bastards.'
My view is the market will find the most efficient route to keep costs down to a minimum.
Honestly it's a silly thing to hang your hat on. If you're going to take umbrage at No Deal then focus on the EU perishable food products that are really effected.
Far from ideal but not the end of the world either.0 -
Because you're crying about how the CFP "devastated" fishing communities whilst presumably supporting the devastation of mining communities.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I really have no idea how supporting a UK fishing industry is hypocrisy when coal is a fossil fuelGallowgate said:
Whatever helps you justify it. With all due respect it is hypocrisy and nothing more.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There is a very big difference between coal and sustainable fish and fishingGallowgate said:
I'm sure you felt the same empathy for the ex-mining communities in the 80s and 90s.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was deeply traumatic and accounts in a large way to the anger towards the EU from the Scottish fishing communitiesPagan2 said:
Yes people make it sound like fisherman were queuing up to sell, I know our skipper was in tears the day he told us. His family had been running a boat for generations but the amount we were allowed to catch would no longer even pay to maintain the boat let alone pay of the crew on a voyageBig_G_NorthWales said:
And that happened to my brother in laws and other family membersPagan2 said:
If I may use an anecdote here, there were two types of people in britain that sold quota's. Large corporations with fishing fleets. The other were boats like mine with a skipper who owned the boat. After we joined the cfp in the 70's the quota's we were given went ever downwards with the uk doing strict enforcement on us while spanish, french and belgian fisherman seemed to have a blind eye from their countries. When he sold his quota we had got down to being allowed to fish 6 weeks a year. His boat was no longer financially viable because instead of being able to catch 100% of the fish that was sustainable in british waters we had our share of about 18%.rcs1000 said:
Surely British fishermen will do what they've always done: they'll get quotas and then rent them out to foreign firms. That's by far the easiest way to make money.Pagan2 said:
The british fishing fleet will take several years to rebuild, if during that time fish stocks get a recovery period due to the lack of eu factory ships by the time its in place there will have been a significant increase in fish stocks. It is simple to work out apart from for you it seemsalex_ said:
You think the message these Tory MPs are looking to sell to the fishing communities is "good news guys, we've got rid of the French, but don't get ahead of yourselves thinking you'll be able to take their place"?Flatlander said:
Let's open all the mines and make Britain great again!
And your only justification is "but fossil fuels"?
I have sympathy for former fishing ports and towns especially because my family is literally from one but realistically it's the past. We now do high tech manufacturing and provide services. Fishing is the past at least how you remember it. Likewise mining.0 -
Were you saying the same thing yesterday when the EU threatened to ground all our planes unless we gave them unilateral access to our fishing waters in the event of No Deal?Gardenwalker said:
It’s pathetic and sickening that the Mail should publish a headline about gunboats on the eve of a critical deal with the EU.Gallowgate said:
Because it's laughable we're even in this position. It's especially laughable that the reaction of those who said it was "all going to be fine" in 2016 is not "let's rationally sort this out" but instead "fire up the Royal Navy".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have and to be honest the rhetoric from both sides needs dialing downGardenwalker said:
Not many read the FT.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many willGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
I thought also you had your own mind.
However, if it is no deal I cannot understand why so many think it is OK for the illegal operation of fishing boats in UK waters or indeed Norwegian and Iceland
It's the continued WW2 war fantasy on steroids and it's frankly pathetic.1 -
I wonder what the ROI of the FPS is going to be. They can come alongside interlopers and give them orders to move away or prepare to be boarded but if they don't' comply? Then what? Johnson does not have the fortitude to sink one.0
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To be honest the editors are idiots for their front pagesGardenwalker said:
Of course, the U.K. must protect its interests in the event of a No Deal.Casino_Royale said:
And, so are we.Gardenwalker said:
But talk of gunboats is juvenile and irresponsible. And Daniel K is a cretin’s cretin. You should know better than to endorse his entrails.1 -
TouchéPagan2 said:
Can we therefore remove people like you from all social media and this site as you are giving fake newsgealbhan said:
All they have said is, whilst sovereignty over sea territory and the harvest underneath is disputed, we stay in talks, and we keep the status quo.Charles said:
It’s not blackmail, it’s a threatGardenwalker said:
Again, read the article (admittedly behind a paywall). I’m not clear how you are construing this blackmail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If all the EU can offer is blackmail then no deal it will beScott_xP said:
Do the deal we tell you to now or we will duck you over in January
The people pushing this blackmail line, the people who have created this crisis in our country and our economy, need to be taken off media and social media just like the anti vaxxers shouldn’t be given air time. Including this site, brexiteers should be suspended for pushing this narrative in the same way the anti vaxxers need to be because they are dangerous in their insanity. We have taken freedom of speech far too far in recent times, so that we are following voices from out the nature state, not civilisation.
There is no sovereignty out there under the oceans on those fish stocks. It’s a fantasy between peoples ears. The science is absolutely black and white. We won’t have enough cod to feed the British appetite without a trade on catches with our neighbours.
If you go strictly to sovereignty and not the science, Londoners will have to eat haddock.
Brexit Britain has no choice but to trade. Simples.0 -
People called 999 when KFC ran short.Casino_Royale said:What this boils down to is a few months disruption whilst the new supply lines bed in and establish and we adjust to the new systems, general price rises of 2-5% and a mixture of medium-high tarrifs on exclusive EU products, which will mean people will generally buy much less of them and start buying them elsewhere - unless speciality.
Far from ideal but not the end of the world either.
There will be riots0 -
I'm always amused to hear people being outraged at the idea illegal fishing would be stopped.
What next - being outraged that bank robbers might be stopped?
Thieves should be tackled. Fishermen should be used to tackle.3
This discussion has been closed.