27 days to go until the end of the transition and punters remain confident that there’ll be a deal –
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If the spike protein makes you infertile surely they want a hard lockdown now to ensure the virus is stamped out. Right? Right?Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
You can be anti-lockdown or anti-vax. To be against both is to be anti-logic.3 -
I think its just a prohibition on international travel by live animals. Something the SM stopped us from doing.FeersumEnjineeya said:
As a vegetarian (and occasional sandal-wearing) Lib Dem, I'm very pleased with that. I'm a bit curious about the details though. If live animals can't be transported, how can they be sent for slaughter? Will animals have to be slaughtered at the farm where they are reared?CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
Edit, I wonder if this would apply to shellfish, as we have discussed the last week or so.1 -
Oh, he'd complain about that as well, I'm sure.dixiedean said:
And no to masks, social distancing, etc.MaxPB said:
So they're saying no to lockdowns and no to vaccines. Wtf is wrong with them.Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
It's almost as if they want everyone to catch Covid so their herd immunity theories can be fulfilled.
But it's why being a contrarian gob on a stick is a terrible thing for one's soul. Because you end up saying truly awful stuff.
It's also why, when someone shows themselves to be a person with a complete lack of judgement and no manners, you should believe them the first time.2 -
No, it is about banning the practice of allowing livestock from being transported excessive distances, often across borders for the purpose of slaughter or fattening up, not banning them being transported to a local slaughterhouse.FeersumEnjineeya said:
As a vegetarian (and occasional sandal-wearing) Lib Dem, I'm very pleased with that. I'm a bit curious about the details though. If live animals can't be transported, how can they be sent for slaughter? Will animals have to be slaughtered at the farm where they are reared?CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
If one was cynical, one might say post brexit,.i doubt such a practice would even really be possible anyway. Who is going to do a load of paperwork to export live animals from UK to other side of Europe just to be killed? I would be surprised if it is even now a big component of the system. The only place I can see cross border type thing is Ireland / NI.0 -
Yep, once you've seen through Boris it's very hard not to see him for the fool he actually is and then to aim to get as far away from him as quickly as possible.Theuniondivvie said:
Tbf they couldn't have done it without u-know-who.eek said:
How - the SNP are successfully using everything to drive a wedge between Scotland and the rest of the UK - and doing a very fine job when doing so.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not believe it should be refused but I am confident the union will surviveFoxy said:
I think Scottish Independence is just a matter of time. The longer it is refused, the more bitter it will be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am quite relaxed about indy2 as if and when it is held I am confident the union will surviveFoxy said:
Hard to see any Unionist being reassured by that poll. 12% is quite a gap to make up.CarlottaVance said:Peak SIndy passed?
https://twitter.com/KellyIpsosMORI/status/1334106169594548224?s=201 -
Betfair currently considering the results of the first one.TheScreamingEagles said:
(Sadly, they don't' provide many/any markets. Sad.)1 -
All of a sudden, Barnier doesn’t like the concept of a backstop?TheScreamingEagles said:Told you a deal was doomed.
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/13341201486603141151 -
It makes sense if you don't believe the virus exists and that all those people in hospital are false positives...Philip_Thompson said:
If the spike protein makes you infertile surely they want a hard lockdown now to ensure the virus is stamped out. Right? Right?Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
You can be anti-lockdown or anti-vax. To be against both is to be anti-logic.0 -
You see, there's a Parliament which appreciates the importance of political betting opportunities!TheScreamingEagles said:3 -
We all need to know what Brenda from Tel Aviv says.TheScreamingEagles said:1 -
FFS.
Everyone I pick in my fantasy football team gets injured.
For the rest of the season I'm not picking any Liverpool players.
https://twitter.com/JamesOlley/status/13341169888688291841 -
I think exports are #1 in the firing line.Roger said:
Are they banning the movement of all livestock? Surely not. The rules on transporting live animals is already very strict and the EU welfare standards high.dixiedean said:
Neither Green, nor Lib Dem, nor tree hugger.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
But I, too, think this is a good thing.
Long distance #2.0 -
It's about export. The industrialisation of slaughterhouses and their remoteness from farms is another issue.FeersumEnjineeya said:
As a vegetarian (and occasional sandal-wearing) Lib Dem, I'm very pleased with that. I'm a bit curious about the details though. If live animals can't be transported, how can they be sent for slaughter? Will animals have to be slaughtered at the farm where they are reared?CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
Nevertheless, any reduction in unnecessary transport is, I maintain, something to celebrate.0 -
In that case, it's hard to see the new law making much difference in the UK, then, given the paucity of land borders.FrancisUrquhart said:
No, it is about banning the practice of allowing livestock from being transported excessive distances, often across borders for the purpose of slaughter or fattening up, not banning them being transported to a local slaughterhouse.FeersumEnjineeya said:
As a vegetarian (and occasional sandal-wearing) Lib Dem, I'm very pleased with that. I'm a bit curious about the details though. If live animals can't be transported, how can they be sent for slaughter? Will animals have to be slaughtered at the farm where they are reared?CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=200 -
I think that is unlikely.DavidL said:
I think its just a prohibition on international travel by live animals. Something the SM stopped us from doing.FeersumEnjineeya said:
As a vegetarian (and occasional sandal-wearing) Lib Dem, I'm very pleased with that. I'm a bit curious about the details though. If live animals can't be transported, how can they be sent for slaughter? Will animals have to be slaughtered at the farm where they are reared?CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
Edit, I wonder if this would apply to shellfish, as we have discussed the last week or so.
Live export is used in fields such as eg bulls rather than bull-semen, on occasion.0 -
NI / Ireland is the only place I can see it really being somewhere that makes a big difference.FeersumEnjineeya said:
In that case, it's hard to see the new law making much difference in the UK, then, given the paucity of land borders.FrancisUrquhart said:
No, it is about banning the practice of allowing livestock from being transported excessive distances, often across borders for the purpose of slaughter or fattening up, not banning them being transported to a local slaughterhouse.FeersumEnjineeya said:
As a vegetarian (and occasional sandal-wearing) Lib Dem, I'm very pleased with that. I'm a bit curious about the details though. If live animals can't be transported, how can they be sent for slaughter? Will animals have to be slaughtered at the farm where they are reared?CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=200 -
They can’t be exported live, as opposed to can’t be transported live.FeersumEnjineeya said:
As a vegetarian (and occasional sandal-wearing) Lib Dem, I'm very pleased with that. I'm a bit curious about the details though. If live animals can't be transported, how can they be sent for slaughter? Will animals have to be slaughtered at the farm where they are reared?CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
Previously British sheep were spending *days* in lorries, on their way to slaughterhouses all over the EU.0 -
They left logic far behind a long time ago.Philip_Thompson said:
If the spike protein makes you infertile surely they want a hard lockdown now to ensure the virus is stamped out. Right? Right?Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
You can be anti-lockdown or anti-vax. To be against both is to be anti-logic.
I mean, seriously, they had articles next to each other claiming:
- There is no covid, it's all over, it's all false positives
- It's disgusting how many people are catching covid while in hospital.
And
- Covid was over by June, there was no second wave, all false positives
- The second wave peaked in October before the second lockdown
I mean, seriously? I get that denialism causes people to suspend their critical faculties, but somehow believing all of that simultaneously?0 -
Any time I read the words "false positives" I get the urge to put something threw my laptop screen.0
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false positivesPhilip_Thompson said:Any time I read the words "false positives" I get the urge to put something threw my laptop screen.
false positives
false positives
false positives
8 -
How they undo the FTPA with regard to the Royal Perogative, is going to be quite the discussion in legal and constitutional circles.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Toby's thing was anti-Lockdown which has been terminally nobbled by the vax. He will thus be angry at the vax and at the same time needs some new "contrarian" bullshit to push. So this move - in the Tobyverse - makes perfect sense.Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.2 -
"It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice."Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.2 -
Seems like they've found the way.Sandpit said:
How they undo the FTPA with regard to the Royal Perogative, is going to be quite the discussion in legal and constitutional circles.TheScreamingEagles said:
If the law is that it is restored then that is the law since Parliament is sovereign. Just because it hasn't happened before, why does it mean it can't happen?0 -
I thought the trade was worth about £500m or so per year, so there must be a substantial number of animals involved.FeersumEnjineeya said:
In that case, it's hard to see the new law making much difference in the UK, then, given the paucity of land borders.FrancisUrquhart said:
No, it is about banning the practice of allowing livestock from being transported excessive distances, often across borders for the purpose of slaughter or fattening up, not banning them being transported to a local slaughterhouse.FeersumEnjineeya said:
As a vegetarian (and occasional sandal-wearing) Lib Dem, I'm very pleased with that. I'm a bit curious about the details though. If live animals can't be transported, how can they be sent for slaughter? Will animals have to be slaughtered at the farm where they are reared?CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
Does it apply in Ireland? Also - the Republic export a large number of calves to France. Will we prevent transit?
0 -
If all British meat has to be slaughtered in the UK, I wonder if we will see a copying of New Zealand lamb approach and it all / large proportion becoming halal, because then there is a premium for export to certain markets?0
-
Oh I can hardly wait.Sandpit said:
How they undo the FTPA with regard to the Royal Perogative, is going to be quite the discussion in legal and constitutional circles.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I know I undertook to avoid being sarcastic and dismissive with 'lockdown sceptics', but if anyone posts a link to that site or regurgitates any of their misinformed/dishonest/mendacious/ignorant bilge after all this, I'm not remotely intending to hold to that any more.4
-
"Back of the queue"CarlottaVance said:1 -
ConservatismTheuniondivvie said:Razedabode said:
From that ipsos mori poll - numbers look like they have potential to be quiet fluid. And we've not even started the debate on the practilities of it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not believe it should be refused but I am confident the union will surviveFoxy said:
I think Scottish Independence is just a matter of time. The longer it is refused, the more bitter it will be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am quite relaxed about indy2 as if and when it is held I am confident the union will surviveFoxy said:
Hard to see any Unionist being reassured by that poll. 12% is quite a gap to make up.CarlottaVance said:Peak SIndy passed?
https://twitter.com/KellyIpsosMORI/status/1334106169594548224?s=20
15 straight polls for Yes = quiet (sic) fluid? I'd like to see what you'd consider was violent electoral volatility.Razedabode said:
From that ipsos mori poll - numbers look like they have potential to be quiet fluid. And we've not even started the debate on the practilities of it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not believe it should be refused but I am confident the union will surviveFoxy said:
I think Scottish Independence is just a matter of time. The longer it is refused, the more bitter it will be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am quite relaxed about indy2 as if and when it is held I am confident the union will surviveFoxy said:
Hard to see any Unionist being reassured by that poll. 12% is quite a gap to make up.CarlottaVance said:Peak SIndy passed?
https://twitter.com/KellyIpsosMORI/status/1334106169594548224?s=20
Unionism 2014: Yes was only ever ahead in 2 polls and the result was quite comfortable in the end.
Unionism 2020: Yes ahead in 15 polls means that it's all to play for, if there was the slightest chance of Scots being allowed to decide.
What's the opposite of evolution? Regression?
1 -
2
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Well we saw it with Peston and his fake news stuff about EU having already bought a load of vaccines the other week.CarlottaVance said:4 -
I've just read the article. Sun Bullshit (if you'll excuse the tautology)TheWhiteRabbit said:
I think exports are #1 in the firing line.Roger said:
Are they banning the movement of all livestock? Surely not. The rules on transporting live animals is already very strict and the EU welfare standards high.dixiedean said:
Neither Green, nor Lib Dem, nor tree hugger.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
But I, too, think this is a good thing.
Long distance #2.0 -
They're 50% anti-lockdown, 50% anti-vax, and 100% pro-twat.Philip_Thompson said:
If the spike protein makes you infertile surely they want a hard lockdown now to ensure the virus is stamped out. Right? Right?Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
You can be anti-lockdown or anti-vax. To be against both is to be anti-logic.
After pissing and whining for a whole year about how the only way out of the pandemic was herd immunity - even if it cost hundreds of thousands of lives - the moment a vaccine appears that gives us instant herd immunity without the fatalities, they effortlessly pivot to opposing it. Utter intellectual and ethical nullities.4 -
I never quite understood why you went soft in the first place.Andy_Cooke said:I know I undertook to avoid being sarcastic and dismissive with 'lockdown sceptics', but if anyone posts a link to that site or regurgitates any of their misinformed/dishonest/mendacious/ignorant bilge after all this, I'm not remotely intending to hold to that any more.
0 -
Roger said:
I've just read the article. Sun Bullshit (if you'll excuse the tautology)TheWhiteRabbit said:
I think exports are #1 in the firing line.Roger said:
Are they banning the movement of all livestock? Surely not. The rules on transporting live animals is already very strict and the EU welfare standards high.dixiedean said:
Neither Green, nor Lib Dem, nor tree hugger.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
But I, too, think this is a good thing.
Long distance #2.
God's sake, steady on. That's really going too far.
0 -
Could we lock them in a basement with Prof. Peston? Would be fun to watch - for a bit. Then pull the feed and brick up the entrance.Andy_Cooke said:I know I undertook to avoid being sarcastic and dismissive with 'lockdown sceptics', but if anyone posts a link to that site or regurgitates any of their misinformed/dishonest/mendacious/ignorant bilge after all this, I'm not remotely intending to hold to that any more.
2 -
Surely that is an impossible scenario, though? Given that we are still de facto members of the EU, EU approval would have automatically been UK approval, wouldn't it? And it is trivially evident that EU membership hasn't stopped us giving our own, prior approval.CarlottaVance said:2 -
https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1334127246458703873?s=20
Guernsey has already identified all vaccinating centres and who goes where. Huge fuss from sports chucked out of a large sports hall commandeered for the purpose.1 -
@NickPalmer did some very good work on this, the definition of ‘halal’ (and ‘kosher’) is slowly and quietly changing under the radar.FrancisUrquhart said:If all British meat has to be slaughtered in the UK, I wonder if we will see a copying of New Zealand lamb approach and it all / large proportion becoming halal, because then there is a premium for export to certain markets?
Yes, the Middle East is full of NZ lamb, it’s definitely an export opportunity.1 -
Not like that massive margin last time only 20% higher , dear dearCarlottaVance said:Peak SIndy passed?
https://twitter.com/KellyIpsosMORI/status/1334106169594548224?s=200 -
Is it an export opportunity that is currently denied to us?Sandpit said:
@NickPalmer did some very good work on this, the definition of ‘halal’ (and ‘kosher’) is slowly and quietly changing under the radar.FrancisUrquhart said:If all British meat has to be slaughtered in the UK, I wonder if we will see a copying of New Zealand lamb approach and it all / large proportion becoming halal, because then there is a premium for export to certain markets?
Yes, the Middle East is full of NZ lamb, it’s definitely an export opportunity.0 -
Funny how Russia announcements are always 10 mins after the ones in the West? Pfizer vaccine we think its 90%, Russia ours is 91%, actually it looks like 95%, Russia, ours is 96%...CarlottaVance said:2 -
The cult members will grasp at any strawFoxy said:
Hard to see any Unionist being reassured by that poll. 12% is quite a gap to make up.CarlottaVance said:Peak SIndy passed?
https://twitter.com/KellyIpsosMORI/status/1334106169594548224?s=200 -
So has England. I wonder who will get to go to Epsom racecourse?CarlottaVance said:https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1334127246458703873?s=20
Guernsey has already identified all vaccinating centres and who goes where. Huge fuss from sports chucked out of a large sports hall commandeered for the purpose.0 -
No, trade is never denied even if on WTO terms. Hence why we can trade with the EU with No Deal too.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Is it an export opportunity that is currently denied to us?Sandpit said:
@NickPalmer did some very good work on this, the definition of ‘halal’ (and ‘kosher’) is slowly and quietly changing under the radar.FrancisUrquhart said:If all British meat has to be slaughtered in the UK, I wonder if we will see a copying of New Zealand lamb approach and it all / large proportion becoming halal, because then there is a premium for export to certain markets?
Yes, the Middle East is full of NZ lamb, it’s definitely an export opportunity.
Though signing free trade deals with those nations is currently denied to us, yes.0 -
You tend to be more persuasive if you don't go confrontational.kinabalu said:
I never quite understood why you went soft in the first place.Andy_Cooke said:I know I undertook to avoid being sarcastic and dismissive with 'lockdown sceptics', but if anyone posts a link to that site or regurgitates any of their misinformed/dishonest/mendacious/ignorant bilge after all this, I'm not remotely intending to hold to that any more.
There are limits, though.1 -
But put yourself in their place. The anti-Lockdown argument was predicated on a good and timely vaccine being a unicorn. It has to be a bummer to see something you've been pushing for so long collapse in a heap. So a little empathy wouldn't go amiss. I mean, imagine if you had only just recently done a Great Blueington Declaration in the full glare of the media spotlight. You'd be really pissed off and looking to lash out at the thing that's rained on your parade. Which is this wretched vaccine.BluestBlue said:
They're 50% anti-lockdown, 50% anti-vax, and 100% pro-twat.Philip_Thompson said:
If the spike protein makes you infertile surely they want a hard lockdown now to ensure the virus is stamped out. Right? Right?Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
You can be anti-lockdown or anti-vax. To be against both is to be anti-logic.
After pissing and whining for a whole year about how the only way out of the pandemic was herd immunity - even if it cost hundreds of thousands of lives - the moment a vaccine appears that gives us instant herd immunity without the fatalities, they effortlessly pivot to opposing it. Utter intellectual and ethical nullities.1 -
Because I’m not an obsessed pedantNigelb said:
Why use the word race ?Charles said:
His race or nationality is completely fucking irrelevant.
He (and his wife) are brilliant scientists.
I’m disappointed that @Richard_Nabavi chose to highlight his Turkish links.1 -
So not someone with independence, rigour and caustic wit, then?BluestBlue said:
They're 50% anti-lockdown, 50% anti-vax, and 100% pro-twat.Philip_Thompson said:
If the spike protein makes you infertile surely they want a hard lockdown now to ensure the virus is stamped out. Right? Right?Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
You can be anti-lockdown or anti-vax. To be against both is to be anti-logic.
After pissing and whining for a whole year about how the only way out of the pandemic was herd immunity - even if it cost hundreds of thousands of lives - the moment a vaccine appears that gives us instant herd immunity without the fatalities, they effortlessly pivot to opposing it. Utter intellectual and ethical nullities.0 -
Perhaps I should be more direct. Why, after Brexit, will we be in a better position to export halal lamb to the Middle east than we currently are?Philip_Thompson said:
No, trade is never denied even if on WTO terms. Hence why we can trade with the EU with No Deal too.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Is it an export opportunity that is currently denied to us?Sandpit said:
@NickPalmer did some very good work on this, the definition of ‘halal’ (and ‘kosher’) is slowly and quietly changing under the radar.FrancisUrquhart said:If all British meat has to be slaughtered in the UK, I wonder if we will see a copying of New Zealand lamb approach and it all / large proportion becoming halal, because then there is a premium for export to certain markets?
Yes, the Middle East is full of NZ lamb, it’s definitely an export opportunity.
Though signing free trade deals with those nations is currently denied to us, yes.0 -
As I understand it (limited understanding based mainly on tweets posted here) the UK decided to invoke an emergency procedure, permissable/existing under EU law to members of the EU to fast track the approval procedure whereas it doesn't appear that any other EU nation did.Philip_Thompson said:
"Back of the queue"CarlottaVance said:
Is this peoples' understanding?0 -
And if this transpires it will 'prove' to hard brexiters that the EU really did want to punish the UK for leaving as an example to others.CarlottaVance said:5 -
Yes.TOPPING said:
As I understand it (limited understanding based mainly on tweets posted here) the UK decided to invoke an emergency procedure, permissable/existing under EU law to members of the EU to fast track the approval procedure whereas it doesn't appear that any other EU nation did.Philip_Thompson said:
"Back of the queue"CarlottaVance said:
Is this peoples' understanding?
My understanding is that the MHRA was staffed up to be able to do this in no small part because they are taking over the EMA's responsibilities from next month, plus when the EMA migrated from the UK to the Netherlands many of the scientists working there chose to jump to the MHRA rather than emigrate. So the MHRA was stronger than it would have been were it not for Brexit putting it in the position to do this.2 -
Shame, could have limited the live export of Farage to the USA and left them with just his bullshit.MattW said:
I think that is unlikely.DavidL said:
I think its just a prohibition on international travel by live animals. Something the SM stopped us from doing.FeersumEnjineeya said:
As a vegetarian (and occasional sandal-wearing) Lib Dem, I'm very pleased with that. I'm a bit curious about the details though. If live animals can't be transported, how can they be sent for slaughter? Will animals have to be slaughtered at the farm where they are reared?CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
Edit, I wonder if this would apply to shellfish, as we have discussed the last week or so.
Live export is used in fields such as eg bulls rather than bull-semen, on occasion.0 -
A large majority of Scottish lambs are exported live to France for fattening and are later sold as French lamb. More or less all of the Scottish upland farmers are going to go broke.FrancisUrquhart said:
No, it is about banning the practice of allowing livestock from being transported excessive distances, often across borders for the purpose of slaughter or fattening up, not banning them being transported to a local slaughterhouse.FeersumEnjineeya said:
As a vegetarian (and occasional sandal-wearing) Lib Dem, I'm very pleased with that. I'm a bit curious about the details though. If live animals can't be transported, how can they be sent for slaughter? Will animals have to be slaughtered at the farm where they are reared?CarlottaVance said:I'm sure Greens, Lib Dems and tree huggers will be delighted:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1333897692297261058?s=20
If one was cynical, one might say post brexit,.i doubt such a practice would even really be possible anyway. Who is going to do a load of paperwork to export live animals from UK to other side of Europe just to be killed? I would be surprised if it is even now a big component of the system. The only place I can see cross border type thing is Ireland / NI.
0 -
Because we can do a trade deal with the GCC (with whom we have a huge trade surplus), and because we no longer have to follow EU regulations on things like live export of animals, which incentivises stock to be sold within the EU at the expense of animal welfare.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Perhaps I should be more direct. Why, after Brexit, will we be in a better position to export halal lamb to the Middle east than we currently are?Philip_Thompson said:
No, trade is never denied even if on WTO terms. Hence why we can trade with the EU with No Deal too.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Is it an export opportunity that is currently denied to us?Sandpit said:
@NickPalmer did some very good work on this, the definition of ‘halal’ (and ‘kosher’) is slowly and quietly changing under the radar.FrancisUrquhart said:If all British meat has to be slaughtered in the UK, I wonder if we will see a copying of New Zealand lamb approach and it all / large proportion becoming halal, because then there is a premium for export to certain markets?
Yes, the Middle East is full of NZ lamb, it’s definitely an export opportunity.
Though signing free trade deals with those nations is currently denied to us, yes.1 -
Sore, much?
Or do they want to encourage the anti-vaxxers?
https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1334136882574323713?s=201 -
Not my understanding. Mine is that the UK has its own Medical Authority which (in the transition phase) follows the EU regulations on vaccine approval, but did the work itself at a faster pace than the EU Regulator (which will be following the same rules) which is a single regulator for the whole of the EU. I might be totally wrong however.TOPPING said:
As I understand it (limited understanding based mainly on tweets posted here) the UK decided to invoke an emergency procedure, permissable/existing under EU law to members of the EU to fast track the approval procedure whereas it doesn't appear that any other EU nation did.Philip_Thompson said:
"Back of the queue"CarlottaVance said:
Is this peoples' understanding?1 -
Seems likely. I posted earlier an EMA statement about vaccine approval (basically that they fell under the category of things that should be approved by EMA rather than national bodies) and yet in transition we are still (presumably) under those agreements. So invoking emergency exceptions seems likely.TOPPING said:
As I understand it (limited understanding based mainly on tweets posted here) the UK decided to invoke an emergency procedure, permissable/existing under EU law to members of the EU to fast track the approval procedure whereas it doesn't appear that any other EU nation did.Philip_Thompson said:
"Back of the queue"CarlottaVance said:
Is this peoples' understanding?
May be that the MHRA, having stepped up capacity (has it?) in advance of a possible no-deal Brexit - or even deal Brexit that doesn't maintain EMA, as seems to be the plan - was the national body best placed to be able to do this.
If so, arguably still a Brexit win, but a bit more indirect than some have suggested.0 -
0
-
0
-
I'm sure that explanation of their psychology is exactly right, but it doesn't change the profundity of the category error they're making. Staking out a contrarian position in regular political discourse - meaning just about everything other than wars, pandemics, and similar massive disasters - is perfectly fine and often admirable; doing so when it puts the lives and health of millions of your fellow citizens in danger is beneath contempt. As someone who is delighted to support the aims of libertarianism and right-populism in 99% of political circumstances, I spit on them for what they're doing now.kinabalu said:
But put yourself in their place. The anti-Lockdown argument was predicated on a good and timely vaccine being a unicorn. It has to be a bummer to see something you've been pushing for so long collapse in a heap. So a little empathy wouldn't go amiss. I mean, imagine if you had only just recently done a Great Blueington Declaration in the full glare of the media spotlight. You'd be really pissed off and looking to lash out at the thing that's rained on your parade. Which is this wretched vaccine.BluestBlue said:
They're 50% anti-lockdown, 50% anti-vax, and 100% pro-twat.Philip_Thompson said:
If the spike protein makes you infertile surely they want a hard lockdown now to ensure the virus is stamped out. Right? Right?Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
You can be anti-lockdown or anti-vax. To be against both is to be anti-logic.
After pissing and whining for a whole year about how the only way out of the pandemic was herd immunity - even if it cost hundreds of thousands of lives - the moment a vaccine appears that gives us instant herd immunity without the fatalities, they effortlessly pivot to opposing it. Utter intellectual and ethical nullities.2 -
Parliament is master of it's own fate, we don't have the constitutional nonsense of Marbury that the US has with its top court effectively elevated over the legislature. Looks fine to me.Philip_Thompson said:
Seems like they've found the way.Sandpit said:
How they undo the FTPA with regard to the Royal Perogative, is going to be quite the discussion in legal and constitutional circles.TheScreamingEagles said:
If the law is that it is restored then that is the law since Parliament is sovereign. Just because it hasn't happened before, why does it mean it can't happen?1 -
No Deal can’t be simultaneously the only pure Brexit and a punishment.turbotubbs said:
And if this transpires it will 'prove' to hard brexiters that the EU really did want to punish the UK for leaving as an example to others.CarlottaVance said:1 -
Was the lady there to reassure Andra that it wasn't a gay orgy?TheScreamingEagles said:Talking of Andrew Neil.
https://twitter.com/jdportes/status/13341378859147509760 -
So everything after "Yes." is supposition.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes.TOPPING said:
As I understand it (limited understanding based mainly on tweets posted here) the UK decided to invoke an emergency procedure, permissable/existing under EU law to members of the EU to fast track the approval procedure whereas it doesn't appear that any other EU nation did.Philip_Thompson said:
"Back of the queue"CarlottaVance said:
Is this peoples' understanding?
My understanding is that the MHRA was staffed up to be able to do this in no small part because they are taking over the EMA's responsibilities from next month, plus when the EMA migrated from the UK to the Netherlands many of the scientists working there chose to jump to the MHRA rather than emigrate. So the MHRA was stronger than it would have been were it not for Brexit putting it in the position to do this.
Thx0 -
0
-
Yes I think that is fair. Not sure if eg Germany pondered and rejected this route.Selebian said:
Seems likely. I posted earlier an EMA statement about vaccine approval (basically that they fell under the category of things that should be approved by EMA rather than national bodies) and yet in transition we are still (presumably) under those agreements. So invoking emergency exceptions seems likely.TOPPING said:
As I understand it (limited understanding based mainly on tweets posted here) the UK decided to invoke an emergency procedure, permissable/existing under EU law to members of the EU to fast track the approval procedure whereas it doesn't appear that any other EU nation did.Philip_Thompson said:
"Back of the queue"CarlottaVance said:
Is this peoples' understanding?
May be that the MHRA, having stepped up capacity (has it?) in advance of a possible no-deal Brexit - or even deal Brexit that doesn't maintain EMA, as seems to be the plan - was the national body best placed to be able to do this.
If so, arguably still a Brexit win, but a bit more indirect than some have suggested.
And of course no one in their right minds thinks that Boris would have cut corners to get a "win" vs the EU as tweeted by several of his feisty back benchers (and some on here also).0 -
Yes. Libertarians and contrarians like Toby Young have been supported by me for years, especially against attempts to take him down by the woke left - but not on this subject, he’s being an idiot, Julia H-B the same.BluestBlue said:
I'm sure that explanation of their psychology is exactly right, but it doesn't change the profundity of the category error they're making. Staking out a contrarian position in regualar political discourse - meaning just about everything other than wars, pandemics, and similar massive disasters - is perfectly fine and often admirable; doing so when it puts the lives and health of millions of your fellow citizens in danger is beneath contempt. As someone who is delighted to support the aims of libertarianism and right-populism in 99% of political circumstances, I spit on them for what they're doing now.kinabalu said:
But put yourself in their place. The anti-Lockdown argument was predicated on a good and timely vaccine being a unicorn. It has to be a bummer to see something you've been pushing for so long collapse in a heap. So a little empathy wouldn't go amiss. I mean, imagine if you had only just recently done a Great Blueington Declaration in the full glare of the media spotlight. You'd be really pissed off and looking to lash out at the thing that's rained on your parade. Which is this wretched vaccine.BluestBlue said:
They're 50% anti-lockdown, 50% anti-vax, and 100% pro-twat.Philip_Thompson said:
If the spike protein makes you infertile surely they want a hard lockdown now to ensure the virus is stamped out. Right? Right?Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
You can be anti-lockdown or anti-vax. To be against both is to be anti-logic.
After pissing and whining for a whole year about how the only way out of the pandemic was herd immunity - even if it cost hundreds of thousands of lives - the moment a vaccine appears that gives us instant herd immunity without the fatalities, they effortlessly pivot to opposing it. Utter intellectual and ethical nullities.
War and pandemic are not normal times, and thankfully this awful year is likely to finish with a bunch of good news on vaccines.2 -
So when it doesn't matter you're happy to be a contrarian. But when it does you fold.BluestBlue said:
I'm sure that explanation of their psychology is exactly right, but it doesn't change the profundity of the category error they're making. Staking out a contrarian position in regular political discourse - meaning just about everything other than wars, pandemics, and similar massive disasters - is perfectly fine and often admirable; doing so when it puts the lives and health of millions of your fellow citizens in danger is beneath contempt. As someone who is delighted to support the aims of libertarianism and right-populism in 99% of political circumstances, I spit on them for what they're doing now.kinabalu said:
But put yourself in their place. The anti-Lockdown argument was predicated on a good and timely vaccine being a unicorn. It has to be a bummer to see something you've been pushing for so long collapse in a heap. So a little empathy wouldn't go amiss. I mean, imagine if you had only just recently done a Great Blueington Declaration in the full glare of the media spotlight. You'd be really pissed off and looking to lash out at the thing that's rained on your parade. Which is this wretched vaccine.BluestBlue said:
They're 50% anti-lockdown, 50% anti-vax, and 100% pro-twat.Philip_Thompson said:
If the spike protein makes you infertile surely they want a hard lockdown now to ensure the virus is stamped out. Right? Right?Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
You can be anti-lockdown or anti-vax. To be against both is to be anti-logic.
After pissing and whining for a whole year about how the only way out of the pandemic was herd immunity - even if it cost hundreds of thousands of lives - the moment a vaccine appears that gives us instant herd immunity without the fatalities, they effortlessly pivot to opposing it. Utter intellectual and ethical nullities.
Gotit.0 -
Two beards for the price of one?Theuniondivvie said:
Was the lady there to reassure Andra that it wasn't a gay orgy?TheScreamingEagles said:Talking of Andrew Neil.
https://twitter.com/jdportes/status/13341378859147509761 -
As mad as Trump's sycophants.FrancisUrquhart said:Carole Conspiracy on the case...
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1334118688564400129?s=201 -
So while Starmer is allowed to criticize the government from every angle, for every decision and the media aren't interested on picking him up on the fact he pushed for a flawed circuit breaker approach, Boris getting a punch in isn't acceptable...
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1334109501386067968?s=202 -
‘A hugely polarised news system’, says the commentator (the use of ‘journalist’ would assume certain ethical standards) who just got a six-figure bill from a judge for making up lies about a political donor...FrancisUrquhart said:Carole Conspiracy on the case...
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1334118688564400129?s=203 -
And still employed by the Guardian, where as Suzanne Moore got shoved out....I presume her conspiracy stuff goes down well with the Guardian readers, but I can't help think it isn't exactly doing their reputation a lot of good to have somebody whose articles have to come with legal corrections every week. Hard to sneer at the Sun and Mail for their inaccuracies when you are having to do the same.Sandpit said:
‘A hugely polarised news system’, says the commentator (the use of ‘journalist’ would assume certain ethical standards) who just got a six-figure bill from a judge for making up lies about a political donor...FrancisUrquhart said:Carole Conspiracy on the case...
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1334118688564400129?s=203 -
I certainly prefer the massive BETA test on UK guinea pigs approach, because you British Blimps won’t see it like what is - your government using you as the worlds lab rats - and will always think not only you won two world wars but beat COVID too. 🥳CarlottaVance said:1 -
What the last couple of days do show, whether it is approval of medicines by the MHRA instead of the EMA, or the restriction of live exports and imports of animals, or the new rules about maintaining the countryside and enhancing biodiversity, the current alignment of the UK with SM rules may prove to be somewhat shorter lived than was thought, complicating the FTA negotiations and making LPF discussions more difficult.
The United Kingdom is going down its own path. The EU either accepts that as part of a FTA or it doesn't in which event there will not be a deal.1 -
So not so much an opportunity as a plan B for what to do with all the lamb that we will no longer be able to export to the EU. Cheers.Sandpit said:
Because we can do a trade deal with the GCC (with whom we have a huge trade surplus), and because we no longer have to follow EU regulations on things like live export of animals, which incentivises stock to be sold within the EU at the expense of animal welfare.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Perhaps I should be more direct. Why, after Brexit, will we be in a better position to export halal lamb to the Middle east than we currently are?Philip_Thompson said:
No, trade is never denied even if on WTO terms. Hence why we can trade with the EU with No Deal too.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Is it an export opportunity that is currently denied to us?Sandpit said:
@NickPalmer did some very good work on this, the definition of ‘halal’ (and ‘kosher’) is slowly and quietly changing under the radar.FrancisUrquhart said:If all British meat has to be slaughtered in the UK, I wonder if we will see a copying of New Zealand lamb approach and it all / large proportion becoming halal, because then there is a premium for export to certain markets?
Yes, the Middle East is full of NZ lamb, it’s definitely an export opportunity.
Though signing free trade deals with those nations is currently denied to us, yes.0 -
Same here.Sandpit said:
Yes. Libertarians and contrarians like Toby Young have been supported by me for years, especially against attempts to take him down by the woke left - but not on this subject, he’s being an idiot, Julia H-B the same.BluestBlue said:
I'm sure that explanation of their psychology is exactly right, but it doesn't change the profundity of the category error they're making. Staking out a contrarian position in regualar political discourse - meaning just about everything other than wars, pandemics, and similar massive disasters - is perfectly fine and often admirable; doing so when it puts the lives and health of millions of your fellow citizens in danger is beneath contempt. As someone who is delighted to support the aims of libertarianism and right-populism in 99% of political circumstances, I spit on them for what they're doing now.kinabalu said:
But put yourself in their place. The anti-Lockdown argument was predicated on a good and timely vaccine being a unicorn. It has to be a bummer to see something you've been pushing for so long collapse in a heap. So a little empathy wouldn't go amiss. I mean, imagine if you had only just recently done a Great Blueington Declaration in the full glare of the media spotlight. You'd be really pissed off and looking to lash out at the thing that's rained on your parade. Which is this wretched vaccine.BluestBlue said:
They're 50% anti-lockdown, 50% anti-vax, and 100% pro-twat.Philip_Thompson said:
If the spike protein makes you infertile surely they want a hard lockdown now to ensure the virus is stamped out. Right? Right?Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
You can be anti-lockdown or anti-vax. To be against both is to be anti-logic.
After pissing and whining for a whole year about how the only way out of the pandemic was herd immunity - even if it cost hundreds of thousands of lives - the moment a vaccine appears that gives us instant herd immunity without the fatalities, they effortlessly pivot to opposing it. Utter intellectual and ethical nullities.
War and pandemic are not normal times, and thankfully this awful year is likely to finish with a bunch of good news on vaccines.
There is literally no libertarian reason to be anti-vax.
Being anti-compulsory vax while still encouraging people to do it and recognising the science and safety is entirely reasonable. But spreading anti-vax conspiracy lies? Nothing liberal in that.3 -
0
-
He says that as if lamb and beef isn't nice...CarlottaVance said:Something for malc, anyway;
https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1334141301760077829?s=202 -
Its almost as if having left the EU to take back control of setting our own laws there was a possibility of the UK using its new controls to pass different laws. Who could have foreseen that?DavidL said:What the last couple of days do show, whether it is approval of medicines by the MHRA instead of the EMA, or the restriction of live exports and imports of animals, or the new rules about maintaining the countryside and enhancing biodiversity, the current alignment of the UK with SM rules may prove to be somewhat shorter lived than was thought, complicating the FTA negotiations and making LPF discussions more difficult.
The United Kingdom is going down its own path. The EU either accepts that as part of a FTA or it doesn't in which event there will not be a deal.
That is the very reason of Brexit. That the EU still don't understand that is like trying to stop a train by stepping in front of it.1 -
Er.....you shouldn't be travelling.....
https://twitter.com/Daily_Express/status/1334141772054847488?s=202 -
I wonder what Brenda from Bethlehem has to say about that?TheScreamingEagles said:2 -
People are going away for Christmas, as I believe the relaxation of the rules allow it.CarlottaVance said:Er.....you shouldn't be travelling.....
twitter.com/Daily_Express/status/1334141772054847488?s=200 -
I don't know about Malc (I thought sheep had first dibs on turnips as winter feed anyway) but I could easily live on lamb (and beef) and potatoes for quite some time. Plus of course a decent bottle of red or two.CarlottaVance said:Something for malc, anyway;
https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1334141301760077829?s=201 -
Do you really need this explained? Boris is for Brexit. He is bad. SKS was a remainer. He is good. Objectivity is in desuetude. That's the way it is.FrancisUrquhart said:So while Starmer is allowed to criticize the government from every angle, for every decision and the media aren't interested on picking him up on the fact he pushed for a flawed circuit breaker approach, Boris getting a punch in isn't acceptable...
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1334109501386067968?s=202 -
Nearly right, David.DavidL said:
Do you really need this explained? Boris is for Brexit. He is bad. SKS was a remainer. He is good. Objectivity is in desuetude. That's the way it is.FrancisUrquhart said:So while Starmer is allowed to criticize the government from every angle, for every decision and the media aren't interested on picking him up on the fact he pushed for a flawed circuit breaker approach, Boris getting a punch in isn't acceptable...
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1334109501386067968?s=20
But in that small sample analysis you have made one error. Boris is not for Brexit. He is for Boris. Brexit was a convenient vehicle to get him to Boris.
And of course again these laws being passed have absolutely nothing to do with needing to fool people such as our very own @Philip_Thompson that we are forging our own way in the world.1 -
He forgot the Scottish shellfish. Its all getting quite tasty.CarlottaVance said:Something for malc, anyway;
https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1334141301760077829?s=203 -
Even accepting Toby's points (I know, but bear with me) he should surely still be in favour of the vaccine being made available:Andy_Cooke said:
- Suspend the studies immediately because the efficacy will be based on FALSE POSITIVES and throw out all the data because of FALSE POSITIVESPhilip_Thompson said:
Saw that coming 🙄Andy_Cooke said:Toby and Yeadon are swinging to full-on antivax.
Their latest is to call for the vaccine studies to be suspended, all data to be thrown out, and to blow up misinformation about antivaxxer fears.
At this point I think they should lock these arseholes up. Let them experience a real curtailment of liberty. They're now actively taking steps to get people killed.
What are those idiots saying now?
- What about Antibody Dependent Enhancement? [Because obviously no-one's thought of that or run lengthy Phase 3 studies]
- Spike proteins could make you INFERTILE!! [so what about people who've been infected with the actual virus?]
- Many people could get fatal allergic reactions to it! 70% of people get antibodies to polyethylene glycol which is in the Pfizer one! [Yet, somehow, no-one in the tens of thousands in the safety studies had an issue]
- It's all happened too fast and what about long-term effects! [Where all the genuine experts reckon that virtually all adverse effects happen within hours or days so any long-term problems would be incredibly unlikely]
Stoking all the fears of the antivaxxers. I'm genuinely now of the belief that these disgusting excuses for human beings should be jailed.
1. the vaccines have been shown to be very effective at reducing those false positives. Given the pandemic is entirely/mostly a pandemic of somehow infectious false positives, that still ends the pandemic and all restrictions will therefore be able to end. WIN
2. there's hardly any disease circulating anyway, so hardly anyone affected. NEUTRAL/MINOR LOSS
3. only stupid people will take the vaccine, infertility will therefore give Toby his desired IQ-basd eugenics programme. WIN
4. see above, kills people stupid enough to take the vaccine, reduces stupidity more quickly. WIN
5. see above, smart people obviously won't take the vaccine for years, so only stupid people affected. WIN (unless vaccine extends life for the stupid people, but we know that's not true, see points 1-4)
Overall: BIGLY WIN from vaccination programme0 -
Or, to put it another way, an opportunity to lead the world in animal welfare standards, by exporting meat rather than transporting livestock in inhumane conditions thousands of miles to slaughterhouses, just to make a few bucks more.FeersumEnjineeya said:
So not so much an opportunity as a plan B for what to do with all the lamb that we will no longer be able to export to the EU. Cheers.Sandpit said:
Because we can do a trade deal with the GCC (with whom we have a huge trade surplus), and because we no longer have to follow EU regulations on things like live export of animals, which incentivises stock to be sold within the EU at the expense of animal welfare.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Perhaps I should be more direct. Why, after Brexit, will we be in a better position to export halal lamb to the Middle east than we currently are?Philip_Thompson said:
No, trade is never denied even if on WTO terms. Hence why we can trade with the EU with No Deal too.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Is it an export opportunity that is currently denied to us?Sandpit said:
@NickPalmer did some very good work on this, the definition of ‘halal’ (and ‘kosher’) is slowly and quietly changing under the radar.FrancisUrquhart said:If all British meat has to be slaughtered in the UK, I wonder if we will see a copying of New Zealand lamb approach and it all / large proportion becoming halal, because then there is a premium for export to certain markets?
Yes, the Middle East is full of NZ lamb, it’s definitely an export opportunity.
Though signing free trade deals with those nations is currently denied to us, yes.0 -
There’s more to it than that. It was another clear win for Boris today. That’s about five in a row. The Starmerites are getting irritated by it.FrancisUrquhart said:So while Starmer is allowed to criticize the government from every angle, for every decision and the media aren't interested on picking him up on the fact he pushed for a flawed circuit breaker approach, Boris getting a punch in isn't acceptable...
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1334109501386067968?s=201 -
If she's in Bethlehem then she probably doesn't have a vote for the Knesset.Fishing said:
I wonder what Brenda from Bethlehem has to say about that?TheScreamingEagles said:1 -
So a politician criticising a politician is good or bad?DavidL said:
Do you really need this explained? Boris is for Brexit. He is bad. SKS was a remainer. He is good. Objectivity is in desuetude. That's the way it is.FrancisUrquhart said:So while Starmer is allowed to criticize the government from every angle, for every decision and the media aren't interested on picking him up on the fact he pushed for a flawed circuit breaker approach, Boris getting a punch in isn't acceptable...
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1334109501386067968?s=200 -
No need for fooling anyone since we are forging our own way in the world. Quite appropriately too.TOPPING said:
Nearly right, David.DavidL said:
Do you really need this explained? Boris is for Brexit. He is bad. SKS was a remainer. He is good. Objectivity is in desuetude. That's the way it is.FrancisUrquhart said:So while Starmer is allowed to criticize the government from every angle, for every decision and the media aren't interested on picking him up on the fact he pushed for a flawed circuit breaker approach, Boris getting a punch in isn't acceptable...
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1334109501386067968?s=20
But in that small sample analysis you have made one error. Boris is not for Brexit. He is for Boris. Brexit was a convenient vehicle to get him to Boris.
And of course again these laws being passed have absolutely nothing to do with needing to fool people such as our very own @Philip_Thompson that we are forging our own way in the world.0 -
Not doing particularly well at controlling infection spread actually made us a good country to do trials in (although the infection levels had largely fallen here when the trials were actually happening).FrancisUrquhart said:Carole Conspiracy on the case...
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1334118688564400129?s=20
Also of course the point that the vaccine is not being trialled, that has already happened (there will no doubt be observational studies and of course continued gathering of any adverse event evidence, but that's not a trial)1
This discussion has been closed.