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Punters make it a 65% chance that Johnson will still be PM on Jan 1 2022 – politicalbetting.com

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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    edited November 2020
    Spectator TV: Andrew Neil interviews Candace Owens.

    youtube.com/watch?v=Il__b2KguWE
  • alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    This idea that's it's cool and proper for a CEO or boss to act like Alan Sugar, Gordon Gecko or Donald Trump is only for TV and the Movies.

    In real life those people struggle to be effective and suffer a high turnover.

    I don't know, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Alan Sugar TV persona is a bit of an act. Donald Trump... not so much.

    The Alan Sugar TV Persona is not an act.
    A caraciture?
    He maybe plays it up a bit, but basically what you see is what you get.

    We were brought up in the same part of Hackney. He went to Brooke House School, where many of my mates went. I never met him then but the family was well known and as far as I know well liked. Some of my mates ended up working for him; a few stayed with him for the duration. He might be abrasive, but he is loyal to those who are loyal in return.

    By chance, I came across him again in his Amstrad days. I was a tax manager in the firm that did his personal tax. I could tell you a few anecdotes, none of which reflect badly on the man. He didn't suffer fools gladly though. I remember the Head of the Tax Department once had to phone him to tell him he had a rather large amount of capital gains tax to pay 'tomorrow'. The paint on the walls blistered. (Sugar knew the amount was due but was livid with the lack of forewarning.)

    The TV persona is not an act. Well, not much of one, anyway.
    That's kind of what i was getting at - the point being that the original post suggested that "acting like Alan Sugar" is not a route to successful management. My point being that his TV Persona is not a complete representation of his management style. The "doesn't suffer fools gladly" (and presumably lets them know about it) is probably largely accurate. But there is a bit more to him in real life.
    Sugar is a remarkable man, one of our most successful serial entrepreneurs, yet on the downside, none of it endured. Sugar had five or six brilliant ideas where most struggle for one, and at its height, Amstrad was Europe's second-largest computer maker. Now he is mainly just another commercial landlord (and probably that is not going too well in the pandemic).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    This idea that's it's cool and proper for a CEO or boss to act like Alan Sugar, Gordon Gecko or Donald Trump is only for TV and the Movies.

    In real life those people struggle to be effective and suffer a high turnover.

    I don't know, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Alan Sugar TV persona is a bit of an act. Donald Trump... not so much.

    The Alan Sugar TV Persona is not an act.
    A caraciture?
    He maybe plays it up a bit, but basically what you see is what you get.

    We were brought up in the same part of Hackney. He went to Brooke House School, where many of my mates went. I never met him then but the family was well known and as far as I know well liked. Some of my mates ended up working for him; a few stayed with him for the duration. He might be abrasive, but he is loyal to those who are loyal in return.

    By chance, I came across him again in his Amstrad days. I was a tax manager in the firm that did his personal tax. I could tell you a few anecdotes, none of which reflect badly on the man. He didn't suffer fools gladly though. I remember the Head of the Tax Department once had to phone him to tell him he had a rather large amount of capital gains tax to pay 'tomorrow'. The paint on the walls blistered. (Sugar knew the amount was due but was livid with the lack of forewarning.)

    The TV persona is not an act. Well, not much of one, anyway.
    That's kind of what i was getting at - the point being that the original post suggested that "acting like Alan Sugar" is not a route to successful management. My point being that his TV Persona is not a complete representation of his management style. The "doesn't suffer fools gladly" (and presumably lets them know about it) is probably largely accurate. But there is a bit more to him in real life.
    Sugar is a remarkable man, one of our most successful serial entrepreneurs, yet on the downside, none of it endured. Sugar had five or six brilliant ideas where most struggle for one, and at its height, Amstrad was Europe's second-largest computer maker. Now he is mainly just another commercial landlord (and probably that is not going too well in the pandemic).
    Nevertheless, I had perhaps 5 Amstrad PCWs in series (including one my mum had), adapted to PC file transfer compatibility. In a sense at least, I owe him a lot for that. It enabled me to wordprocess a vast amount of research far more cheaply than otherwise.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,343
    edited November 2020

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I don't like what they are doing, but to compare shameless defence of Patel with what Trump is doing is certifiably insane. I'm currently reading his latest book, I hope it is not that crazy.

    It's also extremely unhelpful because it makes it easier, not harder, for the government to defend itself. "You say we're acting like Trump trying to steal an election? Come off it". It actually stops people talking about Patel and the response the report in yet another attempt to draw Trump in to an issue where the gov is in trouble anyway.

    Don't give Boris an easy out like that!
    There are some obvious parallels but they shouldn't be carried to far. Boris is not trying to pull off a coup.
    Last year Boris gave us unlawful prorogation and lying to the Palace, an election in which he ducked scrutiny and deployed false social media messaging, and with escape from judicial scrutiny planned. Are you sure Boris is not in the coup business?
    A coup is when in 2024 Boris is still power either because he has lost an election but stayed on by force, or failed to allow an election to take place. We are a little way off either of those eventualities. If lying, acting in ways which can be corrected by judicial review, choosing when to be interviewed and by whom, and making undelivered promises to limit judicial intervention into government action is being in the coup business then, yes it's a coup. But you would be wrong.

    No coup business going on. We are just being governed by unthinking, amoral idiots, of whom the only (and important) thing that can be said is that the only other option in the 2019 GE was government by Jezza and his anti Semitic mates. It wasn't a great choice. If SKS misses the open goal he has been given it would be sad.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    edited November 2020

    Scott_xP said:
    What pathetic bullshit.

    On the one hand we have Patel who has apologised for what she has done and changed her behaviour.

    On the other hand we have a President of the United States who has lost an election but claims he has won six states that he lost.

    And you think Home Secretary apologises is the same behaviour as launching a coup to steal an election?
    [deleted]
  • Andy_JS said:

    Spectator TV: Andrew Neil interviews Candace Owens.

    youtube.com/watch?v=Il__b2KguWE

    She was certainly on-message.
  • JACK_W said:

    In the long line of on-going incompetence and disgraceful behaviour of this Conservative government, one of the most depressing aspects of the Johnston administration is the delusions of adequacy they abjectly fail to meet.

    Who'd have thought the nation would have to wait but a few short months for the May government to be eclipsed as the worst in post war history and there's no shortage of woeful competition.in those 75 years.

    David Cameron was our worst Prime Minister since Lord North. Theresa May was dealt a poor hand, even if she did play it badly. The jury is still out on Boris.
  • Carnyx said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    This idea that's it's cool and proper for a CEO or boss to act like Alan Sugar, Gordon Gecko or Donald Trump is only for TV and the Movies.

    In real life those people struggle to be effective and suffer a high turnover.

    I don't know, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Alan Sugar TV persona is a bit of an act. Donald Trump... not so much.

    The Alan Sugar TV Persona is not an act.
    A caraciture?
    He maybe plays it up a bit, but basically what you see is what you get.

    We were brought up in the same part of Hackney. He went to Brooke House School, where many of my mates went. I never met him then but the family was well known and as far as I know well liked. Some of my mates ended up working for him; a few stayed with him for the duration. He might be abrasive, but he is loyal to those who are loyal in return.

    By chance, I came across him again in his Amstrad days. I was a tax manager in the firm that did his personal tax. I could tell you a few anecdotes, none of which reflect badly on the man. He didn't suffer fools gladly though. I remember the Head of the Tax Department once had to phone him to tell him he had a rather large amount of capital gains tax to pay 'tomorrow'. The paint on the walls blistered. (Sugar knew the amount was due but was livid with the lack of forewarning.)

    The TV persona is not an act. Well, not much of one, anyway.
    That's kind of what i was getting at - the point being that the original post suggested that "acting like Alan Sugar" is not a route to successful management. My point being that his TV Persona is not a complete representation of his management style. The "doesn't suffer fools gladly" (and presumably lets them know about it) is probably largely accurate. But there is a bit more to him in real life.
    Sugar is a remarkable man, one of our most successful serial entrepreneurs, yet on the downside, none of it endured. Sugar had five or six brilliant ideas where most struggle for one, and at its height, Amstrad was Europe's second-largest computer maker. Now he is mainly just another commercial landlord (and probably that is not going too well in the pandemic).
    Nevertheless, I had perhaps 5 Amstrad PCWs in series (including one my mum had), adapted to PC file transfer compatibility. In a sense at least, I owe him a lot for that. It enabled me to wordprocess a vast amount of research far more cheaply than otherwise.
    Indeed, Sugar launched thousands of writing careers. He gave word processing to the masses, and made IBM-compatible PCs (how dated that sounds now) affordable.
  • algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I don't like what they are doing, but to compare shameless defence of Patel with what Trump is doing is certifiably insane. I'm currently reading his latest book, I hope it is not that crazy.

    It's also extremely unhelpful because it makes it easier, not harder, for the government to defend itself. "You say we're acting like Trump trying to steal an election? Come off it". It actually stops people talking about Patel and the response the report in yet another attempt to draw Trump in to an issue where the gov is in trouble anyway.

    Don't give Boris an easy out like that!
    There are some obvious parallels but they shouldn't be carried to far. Boris is not trying to pull off a coup.
    Last year Boris gave us unlawful prorogation and lying to the Palace, an election in which he ducked scrutiny and deployed false social media messaging, and with escape from judicial scrutiny planned. Are you sure Boris is not in the coup business?
    A coup is when in 2024 Boris is still power either because he has lost an election but stayed on by force, or failed to allow an election to take place. We are a little way off either of those eventualities. If lying, acting in ways which can be corrected by judicial review, choosing when to be interviewed and by whom, and making undelivered promises to limit judicial intervention into government action is being in the coup business then, yes it's a coup. But you would be wrong.

    No coup business going on. We are just being governed by unthinking, amoral idiots, of whom the only (and important) thing that can be said is that the only other option in the 2019 GE was government by Jezza and his anti Semitic mates. It wasn't a great choice. If SKS misses the open goal he has been given it would be sad.

    We are being governed by a man who thinks he is, or ought to be, above the law.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    JACK_W said:

    In the long line of on-going incompetence and disgraceful behaviour of this Conservative government, one of the most depressing aspects of the Johnston administration is the delusions of adequacy they abjectly fail to meet.

    Who'd have thought the nation would have to wait but a few short months for the May government to be eclipsed as the worst in post war history and there's no shortage of woeful competition.in those 75 years.

    David Cameron was our worst Prime Minister since Lord North. Theresa May was dealt a poor hand, even if she did play it badly. The jury is still out on Boris.
    You mean whether he might actually be the one that finally allows Lord North to be retired from the history books?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    Carnyx said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    This idea that's it's cool and proper for a CEO or boss to act like Alan Sugar, Gordon Gecko or Donald Trump is only for TV and the Movies.

    In real life those people struggle to be effective and suffer a high turnover.

    I don't know, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Alan Sugar TV persona is a bit of an act. Donald Trump... not so much.

    The Alan Sugar TV Persona is not an act.
    A caraciture?
    He maybe plays it up a bit, but basically what you see is what you get.

    We were brought up in the same part of Hackney. He went to Brooke House School, where many of my mates went. I never met him then but the family was well known and as far as I know well liked. Some of my mates ended up working for him; a few stayed with him for the duration. He might be abrasive, but he is loyal to those who are loyal in return.

    By chance, I came across him again in his Amstrad days. I was a tax manager in the firm that did his personal tax. I could tell you a few anecdotes, none of which reflect badly on the man. He didn't suffer fools gladly though. I remember the Head of the Tax Department once had to phone him to tell him he had a rather large amount of capital gains tax to pay 'tomorrow'. The paint on the walls blistered. (Sugar knew the amount was due but was livid with the lack of forewarning.)

    The TV persona is not an act. Well, not much of one, anyway.
    That's kind of what i was getting at - the point being that the original post suggested that "acting like Alan Sugar" is not a route to successful management. My point being that his TV Persona is not a complete representation of his management style. The "doesn't suffer fools gladly" (and presumably lets them know about it) is probably largely accurate. But there is a bit more to him in real life.
    Sugar is a remarkable man, one of our most successful serial entrepreneurs, yet on the downside, none of it endured. Sugar had five or six brilliant ideas where most struggle for one, and at its height, Amstrad was Europe's second-largest computer maker. Now he is mainly just another commercial landlord (and probably that is not going too well in the pandemic).
    Nevertheless, I had perhaps 5 Amstrad PCWs in series (including one my mum had), adapted to PC file transfer compatibility. In a sense at least, I owe him a lot for that. It enabled me to wordprocess a vast amount of research far more cheaply than otherwise.
    Indeed, Sugar launched thousands of writing careers. He gave word processing to the masses, and made IBM-compatible PCs (how dated that sounds now) affordable.
    He did. I eventually upgraded to a Dell PC in 1996 or so - but for 8 years a succession of PCWs cannibalised as they wore out were what kept me going. I acquired a 5.25" floppy drive and PC file converter software in 1987 to put on my then PCW. ...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2020

    They literally want to inject Trump into their veins.

    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1329776726726111233

    Its hard to remember that guy started his career as a proper investigatiive journalist, who once broke into a secure facility holding kids with learning difficulties to expose incredible neglect and led to massive reform

    But then it hards to remember Piers Morgan went from editor of a national newspaper to big mate of Trump to uninformed screecher.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Scott_xP said:
    Oooh - that one seat might just be the one I live in! Here in senate district 40, Republican Rob Astorino is currently about 6,000 votes ahead of incumbent Democrat Pete Harckhan but there are still about 25,000 absentee ballots left to count.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Yeh, but the last 5% is the sticky stuff. Duh.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    They literally want to inject Trump into their veins.

    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1329776726726111233

    Better idea: we rename COVID-19 "the trumps".
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited November 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    I can't judge whether that's positive or not. Is 5% trivial?

    Presumably 99.99% agreed is still... not agreed.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    TOPPING said:

    geoffw said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Whether that's bullying or not, that's pretty poor behaviour.

    You know, I might tell my CFO that something he did was "crap".

    But I'd never say that to a junior employee.
    I can't tell if it's true, or a trying-to-be-funny fabrication. Guessing the latter, which itself is very poor. Can't see The Times, though.
    Try Bypass-Paywalls
    https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

    Or "theft" as it is otherwise called.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NofDpJcuIw8
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,579

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I don't like what they are doing, but to compare shameless defence of Patel with what Trump is doing is certifiably insane. I'm currently reading his latest book, I hope it is not that crazy.

    It's also extremely unhelpful because it makes it easier, not harder, for the government to defend itself. "You say we're acting like Trump trying to steal an election? Come off it". It actually stops people talking about Patel and the response the report in yet another attempt to draw Trump in to an issue where the gov is in trouble anyway.

    Don't give Boris an easy out like that!
    There are some obvious parallels but they shouldn't be carried to far. Boris is not trying to pull off a coup.
    Last year Boris gave us unlawful prorogation and lying to the Palace, an election in which he ducked scrutiny and deployed false social media messaging, and with escape from judicial scrutiny planned. Are you sure Boris is not in the coup business?
    Well I don't think his moral compass would restrain him if the occasion arose but it hasn't, it won't and he'd probably balls it up if it did.

    Different matter in the States. I think their Institutions have undergone a significant stress test. Looks like they are going to pass, but if the margin of victory had been a little closer?

    My confidence in US Democracy has been seriously undermined.
    If the margin were close, the election would have been stolen, I have very little doubt.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Very inexperienced Cabinet Sec though.

    Can't think why Cummings wanted him.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited November 2020
    Nigelb said:

    .

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    the BBC currently have an headline on their webite saying (no lie) "who is Priti Patel" then on the adjacent headline go on about two WAGS dispute in the high court about essentially a social media spat with the assumed knowledge that everyone will know who they are. Rather depressing

    The class warfare of the #wagathachristie case is an interesting theme. Rebecca and Jamie Vardy have always been looked down on by the Premiership Elite who came through the pampered Premiership Academy route. Their origins in the much more chavy background of the Lower Leagues has always made them outsiders in the England team. It must have really pissed Rooney off when Jamie won the Golden Boot.
    "Rebekah" dont you know?!

    Have you heard of Hypotonic Hyporesponsive Episodes? They symptoms match exactly what happened to my son after his jab. 10,000/1 shot apparently
    The description sounds deeply alarming.
    This was rather more reassuring, though:
    A return to normal after the reaction has been reported in all published cases. No long term sequelae have been identified in the small number of children who have had long term follow-up...

    Hope you’re all well now.
    Yes, it's fair to say the news gets better the more you read. At first it sounds horrific, and for his Grandparents, who were looking after him at the time, it was. My Father in (common) Law had to poke his fingers down our sons throat to get a reaction out of him. They were in tears, thank God he seems ok now, thank you
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2020
    How come infamous phone thrower and all round potty mouth never get pinged for bullying?

    lso revealed the Prime Minister's short fuse with secretaries. "He is said to shout at them abusively. He is reported to have impatiently turfed one of the girls out of her chair and sat down to use the keyboard himself." In another fit of temper, reported by the Mail on Sunday, Mr Brown was said to have upset his driver by picking up his phone and hurling it across the car

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559576/MP-claims-raging-Gordon-breaks-phones-week-hurling-wall.html

    Patel shouting and swearing a lot, sounds like she is a bad boss more than anything.
  • Scott_xP said:
    OK- I know that I've said here that the whole point of Boris Johnson is that, unless there is a rule with an enforcement mechanism that he doesn't control, the rule doesn't really exist. That he is shameless, so there's no point trying to shame him.

    But...
    If a PM has tried to nobble an enquiry into a Cabinet Minister... (and he has, hasn't he?)

    ... that ought to be the end of his career, shouldn't it?

    (And I know that it won't be...)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    They literally want to inject Trump into their veins.

    Leading to a resurgence of bleeding as a medical technique.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited November 2020

    How come infamous phone thrower and all round potty mouth never get pinged for bullying?

    lso revealed the Prime Minister's short fuse with secretaries. "He is said to shout at them abusively. He is reported to have impatiently turfed one of the girls out of her chair and sat down to use the keyboard himself." In another fit of temper, reported by the Mail on Sunday, Mr Brown was said to have upset his driver by picking up his phone and hurling it across the car

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559576/MP-claims-raging-Gordon-breaks-phones-week-hurling-wall.html

    Patel shouting and swearing a lot, sounds like she is a bad boss more than anything.

    It's a fair challenge re Brown.

    However, the Overton window for workplace bullying has been consistently moving imo. Ten years ago it wasn't as generally unacceptable as it is now. That change has been a long slow one from the dark macho-mamangement days of the 1980s.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408


    Patel shouting and swearing a lot, sounds like she is a bad boss more than anything.

    It doesn't have to be one or the other. And as it seems to need repeating, two wrongs don't make a right.
  • Scott_xP said:
    OK- I know that I've said here that the whole point of Boris Johnson is that, unless there is a rule with an enforcement mechanism that he doesn't control, the rule doesn't really exist. That he is shameless, so there's no point trying to shame him.

    But...
    If a PM has tried to nobble an enquiry into a Cabinet Minister... (and he has, hasn't he?)

    ... that ought to be the end of his career, shouldn't it?

    (And I know that it won't be...)
    You'd have thought a more cautious Prime Minister might have used an intermediary.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,579
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    the BBC currently have an headline on their webite saying (no lie) "who is Priti Patel" then on the adjacent headline go on about two WAGS dispute in the high court about essentially a social media spat with the assumed knowledge that everyone will know who they are. Rather depressing

    The class warfare of the #wagathachristie case is an interesting theme. Rebecca and Jamie Vardy have always been looked down on by the Premiership Elite who came through the pampered Premiership Academy route. Their origins in the much more chavy background of the Lower Leagues has always made them outsiders in the England team. It must have really pissed Rooney off when Jamie won the Golden Boot.
    "Rebekah" dont you know?!

    Have you heard of Hypotonic Hyporesponsive Episodes? They symptoms match exactly what happened to my son after his jab. 10,000/1 shot apparently
    The description sounds deeply alarming.
    This was rather more reassuring, though:
    A return to normal after the reaction has been reported in all published cases. No long term sequelae have been identified in the small number of children who have had long term follow-up...

    Hope you’re all well now.
    Yes, it's fair to say the news gets better the more you read. At first it sounds horrific, and for his Grandparents, who were looking after him at the time, it was. My Father in (common) Law had to poke his fingers down our sons throat to get a reaction out of him. They were in tears, thank God he seems ok now, thank you
    I’m glad.
    There is no more helpless feeling than have a seriously ill child.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    edited November 2020
    Toronto and Peel. But not York. Makes no sense.
    Like locking down Manchester and Trafford but not Salford...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    This idea that's it's cool and proper for a CEO or boss to act like Alan Sugar, Gordon Gecko or Donald Trump is only for TV and the Movies.

    In real life those people struggle to be effective and suffer a high turnover.

    I don't know, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Alan Sugar TV persona is a bit of an act. Donald Trump... not so much.

    The Alan Sugar TV Persona is not an act.
    A caraciture?
    He maybe plays it up a bit, but basically what you see is what you get.

    We were brought up in the same part of Hackney. He went to Brooke House School, where many of my mates went. I never met him then but the family was well known and as far as I know well liked. Some of my mates ended up working for him; a few stayed with him for the duration. He might be abrasive, but he is loyal to those who are loyal in return.

    By chance, I came across him again in his Amstrad days. I was a tax manager in the firm that did his personal tax. I could tell you a few anecdotes, none of which reflect badly on the man. He didn't suffer fools gladly though. I remember the Head of the Tax Department once had to phone him to tell him he had a rather large amount of capital gains tax to pay 'tomorrow'. The paint on the walls blistered. (Sugar knew the amount was due but was livid with the lack of forewarning.)

    The TV persona is not an act. Well, not much of one, anyway.
    That's kind of what i was getting at - the point being that the original post suggested that "acting like Alan Sugar" is not a route to successful management. My point being that his TV Persona is not a complete representation of his management style. The "doesn't suffer fools gladly" (and presumably lets them know about it) is probably largely accurate. But there is a bit more to him in real life.
    Sugar is a remarkable man, one of our most successful serial entrepreneurs, yet on the downside, none of it endured. Sugar had five or six brilliant ideas where most struggle for one, and at its height, Amstrad was Europe's second-largest computer maker. Now he is mainly just another commercial landlord (and probably that is not going too well in the pandemic).
    Nevertheless, I had perhaps 5 Amstrad PCWs in series (including one my mum had), adapted to PC file transfer compatibility. In a sense at least, I owe him a lot for that. It enabled me to wordprocess a vast amount of research far more cheaply than otherwise.
    Indeed, Sugar launched thousands of writing careers. He gave word processing to the masses, and made IBM-compatible PCs (how dated that sounds now) affordable.
    He did. I eventually upgraded to a Dell PC in 1996 or so - but for 8 years a succession of PCWs cannibalised as they wore out were what kept me going. I acquired a 5.25" floppy drive and PC file converter software in 1987 to put on my then PCW. ...
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    This idea that's it's cool and proper for a CEO or boss to act like Alan Sugar, Gordon Gecko or Donald Trump is only for TV and the Movies.

    In real life those people struggle to be effective and suffer a high turnover.

    I don't know, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Alan Sugar TV persona is a bit of an act. Donald Trump... not so much.

    The Alan Sugar TV Persona is not an act.
    A caraciture?
    He maybe plays it up a bit, but basically what you see is what you get.

    We were brought up in the same part of Hackney. He went to Brooke House School, where many of my mates went. I never met him then but the family was well known and as far as I know well liked. Some of my mates ended up working for him; a few stayed with him for the duration. He might be abrasive, but he is loyal to those who are loyal in return.

    By chance, I came across him again in his Amstrad days. I was a tax manager in the firm that did his personal tax. I could tell you a few anecdotes, none of which reflect badly on the man. He didn't suffer fools gladly though. I remember the Head of the Tax Department once had to phone him to tell him he had a rather large amount of capital gains tax to pay 'tomorrow'. The paint on the walls blistered. (Sugar knew the amount was due but was livid with the lack of forewarning.)

    The TV persona is not an act. Well, not much of one, anyway.
    That's kind of what i was getting at - the point being that the original post suggested that "acting like Alan Sugar" is not a route to successful management. My point being that his TV Persona is not a complete representation of his management style. The "doesn't suffer fools gladly" (and presumably lets them know about it) is probably largely accurate. But there is a bit more to him in real life.
    Sugar is a remarkable man, one of our most successful serial entrepreneurs, yet on the downside, none of it endured. Sugar had five or six brilliant ideas where most struggle for one, and at its height, Amstrad was Europe's second-largest computer maker. Now he is mainly just another commercial landlord (and probably that is not going too well in the pandemic).
    Nevertheless, I had perhaps 5 Amstrad PCWs in series (including one my mum had), adapted to PC file transfer compatibility. In a sense at least, I owe him a lot for that. It enabled me to wordprocess a vast amount of research far more cheaply than otherwise.
    Indeed, Sugar launched thousands of writing careers. He gave word processing to the masses, and made IBM-compatible PCs (how dated that sounds now) affordable.
    He did. I eventually upgraded to a Dell PC in 1996 or so - but for 8 years a succession of PCWs cannibalised as they wore out were what kept me going. I acquired a 5.25" floppy drive and PC file converter software in 1987 to put on my then PCW. ...
    I thought a few years back, his horribly named (and designed and marketed) 'emailer phone' had the makings of a strong product. It is still somewhat of an oddity even these days that most homes have a phone, and most home phones can only do a 10th of what a mobile can. 'Emailing' was clearly not the killer app (who wants to sit emailing someone on a home phone?), but the ability to screen calls, send a text message to your kids etc., were useful additions.
  • Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

    “If President Trump comes out and says: ‘Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won’t listen, and I’m now calling on Americans to take up arms,’ we would go,” said Fryar, wearing a button-down shirt, pressed slacks and a paisley tie during a recent interview at his office.

    https://in.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fraud-insight/why-republican-voters-say-theres-no-way-in-hell-trump-lost-idUSKBN2801D4
  • Scott_xP said:
    Is that news?

    It's been 95% agreed for some time. It's the 5% that's the issue.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    the BBC currently have an headline on their webite saying (no lie) "who is Priti Patel" then on the adjacent headline go on about two WAGS dispute in the high court about essentially a social media spat with the assumed knowledge that everyone will know who they are. Rather depressing

    The class warfare of the #wagathachristie case is an interesting theme. Rebecca and Jamie Vardy have always been looked down on by the Premiership Elite who came through the pampered Premiership Academy route. Their origins in the much more chavy background of the Lower Leagues has always made them outsiders in the England team. It must have really pissed Rooney off when Jamie won the Golden Boot.
    "Rebekah" dont you know?!

    Have you heard of Hypotonic Hyporesponsive Episodes? They symptoms match exactly what happened to my son after his jab. 10,000/1 shot apparently
    The description sounds deeply alarming.
    This was rather more reassuring, though:
    A return to normal after the reaction has been reported in all published cases. No long term sequelae have been identified in the small number of children who have had long term follow-up...

    Hope you’re all well now.
    Yes, it's fair to say the news gets better the more you read. At first it sounds horrific, and for his Grandparents, who were looking after him at the time, it was. My Father in (common) Law had to poke his fingers down our sons throat to get a reaction out of him. They were in tears, thank God he seems ok now, thank you
    That is good news. After much stress. Take care all of you.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited November 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Good news - though I recall that in the Bush v Gore standoff in 2000 certification by the Florida Secretary of State did not decide the matter. It still went to the Florida Supreme Court - and finally to the US Supreme Court.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    This idea that's it's cool and proper for a CEO or boss to act like Alan Sugar, Gordon Gecko or Donald Trump is only for TV and the Movies.

    In real life those people struggle to be effective and suffer a high turnover.

    I don't know, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Alan Sugar TV persona is a bit of an act. Donald Trump... not so much.

    The Alan Sugar TV Persona is not an act.
    A caraciture?
    He maybe plays it up a bit, but basically what you see is what you get.

    We were brought up in the same part of Hackney. He went to Brooke House School, where many of my mates went. I never met him then but the family was well known and as far as I know well liked. Some of my mates ended up working for him; a few stayed with him for the duration. He might be abrasive, but he is loyal to those who are loyal in return.

    By chance, I came across him again in his Amstrad days. I was a tax manager in the firm that did his personal tax. I could tell you a few anecdotes, none of which reflect badly on the man. He didn't suffer fools gladly though. I remember the Head of the Tax Department once had to phone him to tell him he had a rather large amount of capital gains tax to pay 'tomorrow'. The paint on the walls blistered. (Sugar knew the amount was due but was livid with the lack of forewarning.)

    The TV persona is not an act. Well, not much of one, anyway.
    That's kind of what i was getting at - the point being that the original post suggested that "acting like Alan Sugar" is not a route to successful management. My point being that his TV Persona is not a complete representation of his management style. The "doesn't suffer fools gladly" (and presumably lets them know about it) is probably largely accurate. But there is a bit more to him in real life.
    Sugar is a remarkable man, one of our most successful serial entrepreneurs, yet on the downside, none of it endured. Sugar had five or six brilliant ideas where most struggle for one, and at its height, Amstrad was Europe's second-largest computer maker. Now he is mainly just another commercial landlord (and probably that is not going too well in the pandemic).
    Nevertheless, I had perhaps 5 Amstrad PCWs in series (including one my mum had), adapted to PC file transfer compatibility. In a sense at least, I owe him a lot for that. It enabled me to wordprocess a vast amount of research far more cheaply than otherwise.
    Indeed, Sugar launched thousands of writing careers. He gave word processing to the masses, and made IBM-compatible PCs (how dated that sounds now) affordable.
    He did. I eventually upgraded to a Dell PC in 1996 or so - but for 8 years a succession of PCWs cannibalised as they wore out were what kept me going. I acquired a 5.25" floppy drive and PC file converter software in 1987 to put on my then PCW. ...
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    This idea that's it's cool and proper for a CEO or boss to act like Alan Sugar, Gordon Gecko or Donald Trump is only for TV and the Movies.

    In real life those people struggle to be effective and suffer a high turnover.

    I don't know, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Alan Sugar TV persona is a bit of an act. Donald Trump... not so much.

    The Alan Sugar TV Persona is not an act.
    A caraciture?
    He maybe plays it up a bit, but basically what you see is what you get.

    We were brought up in the same part of Hackney. He went to Brooke House School, where many of my mates went. I never met him then but the family was well known and as far as I know well liked. Some of my mates ended up working for him; a few stayed with him for the duration. He might be abrasive, but he is loyal to those who are loyal in return.

    By chance, I came across him again in his Amstrad days. I was a tax manager in the firm that did his personal tax. I could tell you a few anecdotes, none of which reflect badly on the man. He didn't suffer fools gladly though. I remember the Head of the Tax Department once had to phone him to tell him he had a rather large amount of capital gains tax to pay 'tomorrow'. The paint on the walls blistered. (Sugar knew the amount was due but was livid with the lack of forewarning.)

    The TV persona is not an act. Well, not much of one, anyway.
    That's kind of what i was getting at - the point being that the original post suggested that "acting like Alan Sugar" is not a route to successful management. My point being that his TV Persona is not a complete representation of his management style. The "doesn't suffer fools gladly" (and presumably lets them know about it) is probably largely accurate. But there is a bit more to him in real life.
    Sugar is a remarkable man, one of our most successful serial entrepreneurs, yet on the downside, none of it endured. Sugar had five or six brilliant ideas where most struggle for one, and at its height, Amstrad was Europe's second-largest computer maker. Now he is mainly just another commercial landlord (and probably that is not going too well in the pandemic).
    Nevertheless, I had perhaps 5 Amstrad PCWs in series (including one my mum had), adapted to PC file transfer compatibility. In a sense at least, I owe him a lot for that. It enabled me to wordprocess a vast amount of research far more cheaply than otherwise.
    Indeed, Sugar launched thousands of writing careers. He gave word processing to the masses, and made IBM-compatible PCs (how dated that sounds now) affordable.
    He did. I eventually upgraded to a Dell PC in 1996 or so - but for 8 years a succession of PCWs cannibalised as they wore out were what kept me going. I acquired a 5.25" floppy drive and PC file converter software in 1987 to put on my then PCW. ...
    I thought a few years back, his horribly named (and designed and marketed) 'emailer phone' had the makings of a strong product. It is still somewhat of an oddity even these days that most homes have a phone, and most home phones can only do a 10th of what a mobile can. 'Emailing' was clearly not the killer app (who wants to sit emailing someone on a home phone?), but the ability to screen calls, send a text message to your kids etc., were useful additions.
    I must admit it baffles me why cordless landline phones are so totally crap compared with even cheap smartphones.
  • How come infamous phone thrower and all round potty mouth never get pinged for bullying?

    lso revealed the Prime Minister's short fuse with secretaries. "He is said to shout at them abusively. He is reported to have impatiently turfed one of the girls out of her chair and sat down to use the keyboard himself." In another fit of temper, reported by the Mail on Sunday, Mr Brown was said to have upset his driver by picking up his phone and hurling it across the car

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559576/MP-claims-raging-Gordon-breaks-phones-week-hurling-wall.html

    Patel shouting and swearing a lot, sounds like she is a bad boss more than anything.

    Is this what we used to call Whataboutery?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,078
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    the BBC currently have an headline on their webite saying (no lie) "who is Priti Patel" then on the adjacent headline go on about two WAGS dispute in the high court about essentially a social media spat with the assumed knowledge that everyone will know who they are. Rather depressing

    The class warfare of the #wagathachristie case is an interesting theme. Rebecca and Jamie Vardy have always been looked down on by the Premiership Elite who came through the pampered Premiership Academy route. Their origins in the much more chavy background of the Lower Leagues has always made them outsiders in the England team. It must have really pissed Rooney off when Jamie won the Golden Boot.
    "Rebekah" dont you know?!

    Have you heard of Hypotonic Hyporesponsive Episodes? They symptoms match exactly what happened to my son after his jab. 10,000/1 shot apparently
    The description sounds deeply alarming.
    This was rather more reassuring, though:
    A return to normal after the reaction has been reported in all published cases. No long term sequelae have been identified in the small number of children who have had long term follow-up...

    Hope you’re all well now.
    Yes, it's fair to say the news gets better the more you read. At first it sounds horrific, and for his Grandparents, who were looking after him at the time, it was. My Father in (common) Law had to poke his fingers down our sons throat to get a reaction out of him. They were in tears, thank God he seems ok now, thank you
    I’m glad.
    There is no more helpless feeling than have a seriously ill child.
    Yes, sounds scary indeed.
  • justin124 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Good news - though I recall that in the Bush v Gore standoff in 2000 certification by the Florida Secretary of State did not decide the matter. It still went to the Florida Supreme Court - and finally to the US Supreme Court.
    No sign of BF paying up. :angry:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

    “If President Trump comes out and says: ‘Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won’t listen, and I’m now calling on Americans to take up arms,’ we would go,” said Fryar, wearing a button-down shirt, pressed slacks and a paisley tie during a recent interview at his office.

    https://in.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fraud-insight/why-republican-voters-say-theres-no-way-in-hell-trump-lost-idUSKBN2801D4

    "paisley tie" - that's too much. Stealing elections is one thing. A chap in a paisley tie might do *anything*.

    Pizza with pineapple on it, probably.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    justin124 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Good news - though I recall that in the Bush v Gore standoff in 2000 certification by the Florida Secretary of State did not decide the matter. It still went to the Florida Supreme Court - and finally to the US Supreme Court.
    No sign of BF paying up. :angry:
    It's like they're offering odds on a horse race and don't realise where the winning post is.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    edited November 2020
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I don't like what they are doing, but to compare shameless defence of Patel with what Trump is doing is certifiably insane. I'm currently reading his latest book, I hope it is not that crazy.

    It's also extremely unhelpful because it makes it easier, not harder, for the government to defend itself. "You say we're acting like Trump trying to steal an election? Come off it". It actually stops people talking about Patel and the response the report in yet another attempt to draw Trump in to an issue where the gov is in trouble anyway.

    Don't give Boris an easy out like that!
    There are some obvious parallels but they shouldn't be carried to far. Boris is not trying to pull off a coup.
    Last year Boris gave us unlawful prorogation and lying to the Palace, an election in which he ducked scrutiny and deployed false social media messaging, and with escape from judicial scrutiny planned. Are you sure Boris is not in the coup business?
    Well I don't think his moral compass would restrain him if the occasion arose but it hasn't, it won't and he'd probably balls it up if it did.

    Different matter in the States. I think their Institutions have undergone a significant stress test. Looks like they are going to pass, but if the margin of victory had been a little closer?

    My confidence in US Democracy has been seriously undermined.
    If the margin were close, the election would have been stolen, I have very little doubt.
    Maybe that is why Trump was trading at those oddly short prices before polling day. The smart money knew that Biden had to do more than win to win.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2020
    FFS..no, just no....this ridiculous obsession by the government to open up.for a week over Christmas. We just need to stick this out for another 10-12 weeks and Granny should be safe.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1329904633075130374?s=19
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    justin124 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Good news - though I recall that in the Bush v Gore standoff in 2000 certification by the Florida Secretary of State did not decide the matter. It still went to the Florida Supreme Court - and finally to the US Supreme Court.
    And they stuck with the certified result. Also the margin in 2000 FL was 537 votes. Betfair is very hard of thinking on this one.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent. Tory MPs have rightly decided that if you managed to be 'bullied' by someone who's barely tall enough to ride the rollercoaster at Alton Towers, then you may well be the one with the problem...
    Congratulations on the most foolish comment of the day.
    Pretty disgusting too: blaming the victim.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    FFS..no, just no....this ridiculous obsession by the government to open up.for a week over Christmas. We just need to stick this out for another 10-12 weeks and Granny should be safe.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1329904633075130374?s=19

    Christmas Church services.
    FFS. Most of them full of folk who only go once a year.
    Probably plenty more this year who will go for summat to do.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

    “If President Trump comes out and says: ‘Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won’t listen, and I’m now calling on Americans to take up arms,’ we would go,” said Fryar, wearing a button-down shirt, pressed slacks and a paisley tie during a recent interview at his office.

    https://in.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fraud-insight/why-republican-voters-say-theres-no-way-in-hell-trump-lost-idUSKBN2801D4

    Sounds an appalling character - even though his slacks were pressed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited November 2020

    FFS..no, just no....this ridiculous obsession by the government to open up.for a week over Christmas. We just need to stick this out for another 10-12 weeks and Granny should be safe.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1329904633075130374?s=19

    I suspect they think most people won't abide by restrictions at Xmas anyway, so give them a week and hope they go back to restrictions afterwards, but that's not really a reason to give in.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 793
    Nigelb said:
    I wonder what's next if the current strategy of court challenges and ECV tampering fails. Trump obviously has no intention to abide by the election result, and so far it doesn't look like he'll stop at anything.

    Send in Homeland Security forces to stop Congress from counting the votes? Have the FBI arrest Biden? Incite riots to declare an emergency and cancel handover?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    FFS..no, just no....this ridiculous obsession by the government to open up.for a week over Christmas. We just need to stick this out for another 10-12 weeks and Granny should be safe.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1329904633075130374?s=19

    And we'll be locked up through January. With November the 2 worst months of the year anyways.
    February at least is mercifully short.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Scott_xP said:
    So what did she apologise for then?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Pulpstar said:
    Is there still the option of a recount for the Trump team or does the recount GA have already done count for that?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Pulpstar said:
    'Hundreds of thousands', the man is demented. Like how he doesn't think even then Loeffler will have won outright (I know that's down to iti being a special, but still)
  • If Patel is a good 'un then why does she have that fucking smirk on her face in every fucking picture?

    She is the Dolores Umbridge of this cabinet. Thinks she is a good person. Whilst acting like an absolute psychopath
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    Scott_xP said:
    Yes I suppose shouting and swearing is really as bad as rape and paedophilia. Good Lord, these people have been driven insane
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2020
    I wonder if the disappearance of Witty and Valance has anything to do with this Christmas relaxation plan? I can't imagine they are onboard with this plan, given how negative they are in general.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    alex_ said:
    Yes, doing the 'rally round' thing still requires you not to contradict the person being rallied round. She has apologised and changed her behaviour, so you cannot defend her by saying it's nothing, like when some defended Brown for his bigotgate remarks, but he had said they were wrong, so the defence did not help him.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    dixiedean said:

    Toronto and Peel. But not York. Makes no sense.
    Like locking down Manchester and Trafford but not Salford...
    Does it apply to my former home town of Markham?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265

    Well, putting all the evidence together, including the statement from Philip Rutnam, it is clear that Patel is not only a serial bully, but also a serial liar. Not just at the Home Office, but in her previous jobs as well. It's no surprise that the government is unwilling to release the full report from Alex Allan, and it's also no surprise that he's felt no option but to resign following government inaction. Despite what some on here think of the Civil Service, they have a lot more integrity than ministers and their hangers-on.

    Patel should clearly go. What's also depressed me today is the number of people on here who seem to advocate macho management - "when 'subordinates' don't do a good job, they need to be forced/persuaded/bullied out". It doesn't seem to occur to the macho managers that poor performance is usually (I'll grant not always) a consequence of poor management and/or poor recruitment by managers.

    In my experience, the first key attribute for good managers is unfailing courtesy and respect for those paid less than them. Good managers help their staff to perform well, and 'blame' themselves, not their 'subordinates' for poor performance in most cases. They should think "why am I failing to help X to perform well?". I can't imagine a world in which I'd have ever said, or thought, of the staff who worked for me as 'subordinates'.

    Yes, in general I've always thought that one way you recognise a good manager is that you're surprised how well their people are performing, as though by magic, especially if you previously thought they were only OK. It's good if X is brilliant, but better still if X has 6 people working brilliantly under X's leadership.

    I only once had a seriously bad manager, my first, but he didn't shout and swear - his issue was that he disliked any conversation or cooperation that he hadn't instigated himself. As the IT guy on the team I developed a good working relationship with the statistician, so our boss reorganised the department to have us working in different teams. "It seems a pity as we work together well and really get on," I said innocently. "Yes," he snarled. "It isn't natural!" I don't think he was suggesting a gay affair - he just didn't like to see his staff hobnobbing with each other.

    He had lots of energy and ambition and did well for about 2 years, after which he was sacked after making the wrong enemy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Yes I suppose shouting and swearing is really as bad as rape and paedophilia. Good Lord, these people have been driven insane
    Ir's not the most useful of comparisons

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    MSNBC speculating that Trump might have had a breakdown. Hopefully true.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Pulpstar said:

    MSNBC speculating that Trump might have had a breakdown. Hopefully true.

    How would we notice? An absence of mad tweets?
  • Pulpstar said:

    MSNBC speculating that Trump might have had a breakdown. Hopefully true.

    MSNBC speculate all sorts of crap over the past 4 years, but on this how would we tell?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Pulpstar said:

    MSNBC speculating that Trump might have had a breakdown. Hopefully true.

    You mean his general behaviour is caused by a breakdown, or he's had one today?
  • Pulpstar said:

    MSNBC speculating that Trump might have had a breakdown. Hopefully true.

    Downfall parodies incoming. "Anyone who isn't a lawyer leave the room."
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    edited November 2020
    Tim_B said:

    dixiedean said:

    Toronto and Peel. But not York. Makes no sense.
    Like locking down Manchester and Trafford but not Salford...
    Does it apply to my former home town of Markham?
    Apparently not. You will appreciate better than me how nuts that is.
    But hey...Doug Ford...
    This article has quotes from the Mayor of Markham.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.cp24.com/news/2020/11/20/1_5197335.html
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Pulpstar said:

    justin124 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Good news - though I recall that in the Bush v Gore standoff in 2000 certification by the Florida Secretary of State did not decide the matter. It still went to the Florida Supreme Court - and finally to the US Supreme Court.
    And they stuck with the certified result. Also the margin in 2000 FL was 537 votes. Betfair is very hard of thinking on this one.
    The Florida Supreme Court agreed to the recount of specific counties as demanded by Gore. The US Supreme Court said that any recount would have to be statewide - but it had become too late to do that.
  • Pulpstar said:

    MSNBC speculating that Trump might have had a breakdown. Hopefully true.

    Trump is a breakdown
  • Pulpstar said:

    MSNBC speculating that Trump might have had a breakdown. Hopefully true.

    I don't care whether he's mad or sane, dead, dying, or full of life; I just want the fucker gone. Today would be fine. Yesterday, better.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,853
    edited November 2020
    dixiedean said:

    FFS..no, just no....this ridiculous obsession by the government to open up.for a week over Christmas. We just need to stick this out for another 10-12 weeks and Granny should be safe.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1329904633075130374?s=19

    And we'll be locked up through January. With November the 2 worst months of the year anyways.
    February at least is mercifully short.
    I quite like Feb. It is sunnier and drier than November. I do hope ski holidays will be off the agenda, though.

    This Christmas obsession is a bit daft. I expect they'll have Van-Tam on just before to tell everyone not to tear the pants out of it, but cancelling the family gatherings for a couple of months would be sensible. Church services seem like an incredibly bad idea.
  • FFS..no, just no....this ridiculous obsession by the government to open up.for a week over Christmas. We just need to stick this out for another 10-12 weeks and Granny should be safe.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1329904633075130374?s=19

    I really don't get it. I will spend the week between Christmas and New Year doing what I have always done, sitting on my arse at home watching telly, eating too much and occasionally venturing outside for a walk. Who are these people for whom it is a frantic social whirl? Am I missing something?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    If the hospitality sector is not told by this Monday whether it will be allowed to reopen on December 3 and, if so, on what terms it is going to be pretty hard to find real ale in your pubs. Or for businesses to plan menus / organise staff rotas etc. These things don’t happen overnight. Businesses are not going to order stuff in if they don’t whether and how they can operate. Who’s going to go to a pub or restaurant on NY’s Eve if they have to be out by 10 pm?

    The silence from government either means that:

    - restrictions will continue as now beyond 2 December or
    - the government has no idea how the hospitality sector works and is too arrogant to listen to or learn from those who do or
    - does not care about the harm done to the sector.

    Could be all three of course.
  • Roy_G_Biv said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MSNBC speculating that Trump might have had a breakdown. Hopefully true.

    I don't care whether he's mad or sane, dead, dying, or full of life; I just want the fucker gone. Today would be fine. Yesterday, better.
    Pence should invoke the 25th.

    He won't. He should.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    FFS..no, just no....this ridiculous obsession by the government to open up.for a week over Christmas. We just need to stick this out for another 10-12 weeks and Granny should be safe.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1329904633075130374?s=19

    I really don't get it. I will spend the week between Christmas and New Year doing what I have always done, sitting on my arse at home watching telly, eating too much and occasionally venturing outside for a walk. Who are these people for whom it is a frantic social whirl? Am I missing something?
    Maybe that's the point. It's largely not. But it gives the Government an excuse not to open much up from the beginning of December...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Trump Jnr has coronovirus.
  • alex_ said:

    Trump Jnr has coronovirus.

    Surprised it has taken this long.
  • kinabalu said:

    Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

    “If President Trump comes out and says: ‘Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won’t listen, and I’m now calling on Americans to take up arms,’ we would go,” said Fryar, wearing a button-down shirt, pressed slacks and a paisley tie during a recent interview at his office.

    https://in.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fraud-insight/why-republican-voters-say-theres-no-way-in-hell-trump-lost-idUSKBN2801D4

    Sounds an appalling character - even though his slacks were pressed.
    Nothing there that an arrest by the local SWAT team cannot fix...
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