Cummings – the end of the line for his time at Number 10? – politicalbetting.com
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Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.0 -
He's probably right. Which is why it will not likely happen in many of our lifetimes.....HYUFD said:Adonis backs the Euro
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=202 -
You'd think someone as smart as Cummings would be aware of the concept of entropy.Beibheirli_C said:
Generally speaking, there are an infinite number of ways to be wrong and only one way to be right. Blundering about like a bull in a China shop is unlikely to lead to success.kle4 said:
I can see your point in theory as institutions do need a shake up, but something useful needs to come from that shake up. As your permanent revolution line suggests there are limits.DavidL said:Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.
But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.
And blundering in and cocking things about in unearned confidence may in fact shake things up in a way to prevent actually useful shakeups in future.
If some arrogant, rude svengali messes everyone about to the point those following them are wary of even trying to sort things out it has been a net loss, even if the alternative was a sclerotic blob.
It's the 'upsets the right people' level analysis and its crap.0 -
The dossier was comms (or lies if you prefer). The decision to go to war was policy and was made by Blair.turbotubbs said:
Nope - he was part of the sofa cabinet, and his fingers were all over everything that Blair did, not least the 45 minute dossier.rkrkrk said:
Was Alistair Campbell's role really the same? I was a child for most of the Blair years, but in my memory he was a spin guy who did comms.turbotubbs said:
I don't recall the election of Alistair Campbell either... Plus ca change.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nobody voted for Dom Cummings either, but we are where we are.Andy_JS said:Nobody voted for Carrie Symonds. It's disappointing to read reports saying that she has a big political influence in number 10.
He wasn't writing lengthy policy tracts, making operational decisions like buying satellite companies and reorganizing the MoD.
I see Cummings as more equivalent to Mandelso...
I think there's a difference, although i may not be articulating it very well.0 -
And that's entropy.Beibheirli_C said:
Generally speaking, there are an infinite number of ways to be wrong and only one way to be right. Blundering about like a bull in a China shop is unlikely to lead to success.kle4 said:
I can see your point in theory as institutions do need a shake up, but something useful needs to come from that shake up. As your permanent revolution line suggests there are limits.DavidL said:Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.
But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.
And blundering in and cocking things about in unearned confidence may in fact shake things up in a way to prevent actually useful shakeups in future.
If some arrogant, rude svengali messes everyone about to the point those following them are wary of even trying to sort things out it has been a net loss, even if the alternative was a sclerotic blob.
It's the 'upsets the right people' level analysis and its crap.
One of the ironies of the rise and fall of Dom C is that he has railed against disorder throughout. His vision seems to be that the centre should act as a kind of Maxwell's demon. If only all the right information could be fed through a great big pipe into a great big brain, the big brain would know what to do. Everything would be better and cheaper and there would be no wastefulness and nothing would be wrong.
The trouble is that anyone with eyes to see can notice that smashing things up usually increases entropy and it's much easier to smash up than it is to build.
And anyone who actually understands science knows that you can never beat entropy. Locally, you can hold it back for a bit, but it always wins in the end.3 -
That is very trueIanB2 said:
It would have been easiest from a halfway house soft Brexit. Which is why the LibDems and relevant Tories were fools for not pursuing this path when it was on the table.geoffw said:
Hope springs eternal.Roger said:I wonder whether there is any scenario where Brexit could be reversed? With it's architects crashing and with no obvious momentum coming from anywhere else and Ireland and Scotland likely to secede and opinion turning sharply against......
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Another The Crown trailer:
https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20
Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.0 -
Germany's health system is far from evil, but it is expensive. I'm not sure we'd be prepared to pay that much.JohnLilburne said:
Germany has a social insurance system for public health care, as do many other European companies. Presumably evil privatisation imposed by equally evil right wing governmentsOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.0 -
Fortunately that is a very unlikely prospect.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes; if Boris has been replaced by Gove then Cummings will be back running the whole show.Scott_xP said:
Only if BoZo is still in postTheScreamingEagles said:I'm told by a very reliable source that Cummings will be back next year as head of the government backed/run UK DARPA.
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https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.1 -
BigG:
I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings...
O the ladies of the harem of the court of King Catactacus, were just passing by
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I hope people have factored in that it would be very typical of Cummings to announce his departure, see who cheers loudest - then come back, with a side salad of righteous vengeance and a little list....0
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If we joined the Euro we would break it within a few years. Our viewpoint on banking compared with Germany's are completely incompatible.CarlottaVance said:
He's probably right. Which is why it will not likely happen in many of our lifetimes.....HYUFD said:Adonis backs the Euro
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=200 -
I still don’t get argument over fishing. Put me right here. How can it be so important to our independence, surely we have to pool sovereignty into fishing agreement for the sake of the fish? please put me right if the following are incorrect.Gallowgate said:
wE hOlD aLL tHe cARdSHYUFD said:Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.
However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20
Coordinated action by the EU helped to prevent over fishing and improve fish stocks?
Fish don’t recognise national borders. EU law prevents younger fish being harvested in one territorial water until they are bigger fish swum into another’s territorial water?
Big percentage of Cod consumed in UK comes from EU and Brexit doesn’t change that, because although cod can swim out of EU waters and live okay in ours, they don’t tend to?
In the bad old days without joining in coordinated action, times we could return to, there was over fishing, no good to anyone, also fish harvested in UK waters, by UK and EU fleets thanks to EU regulation could get fished earlier a long way from UK waters when they much smaller. So if I’m right, its easy for EU to give way on this, as even a UK win doesn’t amount to much in a practical sense, because we actually got a fair deal out of being part of EU regulation on this one at least?0 -
I think you are wrong if you believe Campbell had no influence on policy. The idea that he sat outside the office waiting for Blair to tell him what to do, and sort out the spin, is very wrong.rkrkrk said:
The dossier was comms (or lies if you prefer). The decision to go to war was policy and was made by Blair.turbotubbs said:
Nope - he was part of the sofa cabinet, and his fingers were all over everything that Blair did, not least the 45 minute dossier.rkrkrk said:
Was Alistair Campbell's role really the same? I was a child for most of the Blair years, but in my memory he was a spin guy who did comms.turbotubbs said:
I don't recall the election of Alistair Campbell either... Plus ca change.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nobody voted for Dom Cummings either, but we are where we are.Andy_JS said:Nobody voted for Carrie Symonds. It's disappointing to read reports saying that she has a big political influence in number 10.
He wasn't writing lengthy policy tracts, making operational decisions like buying satellite companies and reorganizing the MoD.
I see Cummings as more equivalent to Mandelso...
I think there's a difference, although i may not be articulating it very well.
You can argue that Cummings has held more authority, or more control, but that is primarily due to the vacuum that is Johnson. Like Brown when he became PM, there was no plan, other than to make it. After that - what next? Johnson's time has been dominated by Covid. Bad luck, but perhaps also a cover for not actually knowing what he wants to do with power.0 -
This will help your German students with their vocabulary.Dura_Ace said:
I can spot the output of Google Translate in my students' work with 100% accuracy. It's haphazard with les prépositions and at least four of the seven non-compound tenses. I think it's actually worse going from French to English as English has twelve verb tenses and we use them all.OldKingCole said:
Might I suggest that you do what I do; cheat. That is I look up what I want to to write in French on Google or Google translate, then cut and paste.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is beyond my ability to be honestTheScreamingEagles said:
New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving
I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings
I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition
I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow
And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiQLHDOY_F81 -
France and Germany have a mixture of public and private insurance and a mixture of public and private provision (eg 38% of French hospital beds are in private hospitals). So moving from a system of public provision free at the point of use to this kind of system is accurately referred to as privatisation.HYUFD said:
It is not privatising the NHS, it would be moving to a social insurance healthcare system like even France and Germany have if you read the articleOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
The purpose of this kind of move is to switch the burden of paying for the system from all taxpayers onto individuals. Generally it will mean higher payments for middle income people on PAYE as a French or German system is basically a hypothecated tax on salaried income, with a resultant drop in tax for those with large incomes from capital. Plus you will allow the wealthy to access superior care with some of the cost subsidised, rather than having to pay for the NHS while also paying for private insurance as now. You can see why this is a donor class wet dream and why it was so important to dangle Brexit in front of those red wall voters, who would never have voted for this but may be getting it anyway, judging from this article.2 -
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.1 -
Looks like the flag stall in the Grand Bazaar IstanbulHYUFD said:0 -
The more you put things together, the more they keep falling apart.FeersumEnjineeya said:
You'd think someone as smart as Cummings would be aware of the concept of entropy.Beibheirli_C said:
Generally speaking, there are an infinite number of ways to be wrong and only one way to be right. Blundering about like a bull in a China shop is unlikely to lead to success.kle4 said:
I can see your point in theory as institutions do need a shake up, but something useful needs to come from that shake up. As your permanent revolution line suggests there are limits.DavidL said:Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.
But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.
And blundering in and cocking things about in unearned confidence may in fact shake things up in a way to prevent actually useful shakeups in future.
If some arrogant, rude svengali messes everyone about to the point those following them are wary of even trying to sort things out it has been a net loss, even if the alternative was a sclerotic blob.
It's the 'upsets the right people' level analysis and its crap.0 -
I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.CarlottaVance said:Another The Crown trailer:
https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20
Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.0 -
I apologise if you took it that way, but the use of 'the blob' in place of even the most rudimentary analysis is extremely irritating.DavidL said:
Sorry, which one am I? I am sure I should be able to work it out but as @Nigelb has already explained I am an idiot.Roger said:
Very similar to the eulogy offered to Donald Trump by Cameron's ex Svengali Steve Hilton. What is it about ad men and lawyers that can turn the most gentle hoody huggers into raging right wing hoodlums?DavidL said:Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.
But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.1 -
Many other European countries also have better-funded, centralised state systems. There's no one model that always works ; ours is simply an uneasy compromise with lack of sufficient funding for a national state system, but market principles sometimes inserted into it, with sometimes uneven and unpredictable results.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Germany's health system is far from evil, but it is expensive. I'm not sure we'd be prepared to pay that much.JohnLilburne said:
Germany has a social insurance system for public health care, as do many other European companies. Presumably evil privatisation imposed by equally evil right wing governmentsOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.0 -
More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.0 -
Agreed.IanB2 said:
It would have been easiest from a halfway house soft Brexit. Which is why the LibDems and relevant Tories were fools for not pursuing this path when it was on the table.geoffw said:
Hope springs eternal.Roger said:I wonder whether there is any scenario where Brexit could be reversed? With it's architects crashing and with no obvious momentum coming from anywhere else and Ireland and Scotland likely to secede and opinion turning sharply against......
Norman Lamb advocated this pretty much from the day of the referendum result, but too many idiots decided they could stop the entire thing, and nuts to the referendum result.
Which got the result that was obvious from the start.0 -
PS How important is fishing in the CIs? I have no idea. Is it just local crabs for the restaurants, or what?CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.0 -
Its the hope thats a killer.HYUFD said:Adonis backs the Euro
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=20
Fortunately Adonis is in dreamland again and will go to his grave wishing this were true.2 -
They probably have a lot of Tory's money in their banks.....Carnyx said:
More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.
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The timing of this matches up to half term almost exactly, there was definitely a case for half term to be extended to two weeks and for Xmas extended to three weeks with the summer term extended by those two weeks.CarlottaVance said:
A general order of WFH coupled with school closures for 2 weeks then 3 weeks would have done far more to bring the R down than anything like the 4 weel lockdown. Closing social venues has a small effect on the R, schools and workplaces are the major infection vectors with R of 0.3 for workplaces and 0.4 for schools compared to 0.1 for socially distanced hospitality venues (SAGE numbers).0 -
IDK, on a technical level it would have been easier but if you'd had a version of Brexit implemented by an (albeit muted) Remain supporter, opposed by almost everyone who advocated Brexit and passed only thanks to the votes of the unapologetically pro-EU LibDems, the pro-Brexit people would have blamed any dissatisfaction the voters might have had on the failure to Brexit properly, and reasonably demanded to try the real thing before concluding that it didn't work the way they'd said.IanB2 said:
It would have been easiest from a halfway house soft Brexit. Which is why the LibDems and relevant Tories were fools for not pursuing this path when it was on the table.geoffw said:
Hope springs eternal.Roger said:I wonder whether there is any scenario where Brexit could be reversed? With it's architects crashing and with no obvious momentum coming from anywhere else and Ireland and Scotland likely to secede and opinion turning sharply against......
Obviously the LibDems and pro-Remain Labour members wouldn't have done what they did if they'd known how many seats they'd lose, but there's a refreshing clarity to it being done by Boris and Gove with a Tory majority. That should make it *politically* easier to reverse in the event that it goes less well than advertised, and the political part is harder than the technical part.0 -
Will Gompertz described the performance as mannered bordering on unwatchable!MaxPB said:
I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.CarlottaVance said:Another The Crown trailer:
https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20
Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.
I suspect she's playing "Thatcher the myth" rather than "Thatcher the person" - which is fair enough, as its a drama, not a documentary, and the myth is always more interesting.
It will be interesting to see if she's got the deportment right (a cross between a waddle and tottering forward).
Coleman is hopeless in that deportment department as the queen - as she herself acknowledges she "walks like a farmer".0 -
There was never going to be a halfway house. The ERG and their cohorts would never have allowed it.Andy_Cooke said:
Agreed.IanB2 said:
It would have been easiest from a halfway house soft Brexit. Which is why the LibDems and relevant Tories were fools for not pursuing this path when it was on the table.geoffw said:
Hope springs eternal.Roger said:I wonder whether there is any scenario where Brexit could be reversed? With it's architects crashing and with no obvious momentum coming from anywhere else and Ireland and Scotland likely to secede and opinion turning sharply against......
Norman Lamb advocated this pretty much from the day of the referendum result, but too many idiots decided they could stop the entire thing, and nuts to the referendum result.
Which got the result that was obvious from the start.0 -
A soft Brexit was never on the table. Soft Brexit is EEA and CU. May's deal offered neither and apart from slightly more ambitious language in the non-binding political declaration and a slightly different fudge over the Irish border isn't that different to what Johnson seems to be going for. If a deal that kept the UK in the EU's single market but outside the political institutions had been on the table I am sure it would have been accepted as a compromise. But May's vision was a hard Brexit which is why GBP tanked when she articulated it.IanB2 said:
It would have been easiest from a halfway house soft Brexit. Which is why the LibDems and relevant Tories were fools for not pursuing this path when it was on the table.geoffw said:
Hope springs eternal.Roger said:I wonder whether there is any scenario where Brexit could be reversed? With it's architects crashing and with no obvious momentum coming from anywhere else and Ireland and Scotland likely to secede and opinion turning sharply against......
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He’ll probably create an account and argue with that himself!rkrkrk said:
Was Alistair Campbell's role really the same? I was a child for most of the Blair years, but in my memory he was a spin guy who did comms.turbotubbs said:
I don't recall the election of Alistair Campbell either... Plus ca change.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nobody voted for Dom Cummings either, but we are where we are.Andy_JS said:Nobody voted for Carrie Symonds. It's disappointing to read reports saying that she has a big political influence in number 10.
He wasn't writing lengthy policy tracts, making operational decisions like buying satellite companies and reorganizing the MoD.
I see Cummings as more equivalent to Mandelso...0 -
Any Cod that stay in EU waters and don;t swim to ours are TRAITORS!!!gealbhan said:
I still don’t get argument over fishing. Put me right here. How can it be so important to our independence, surely we have to pool sovereignty into fishing agreement for the sake of the fish? please put me right if the following are incorrect.Gallowgate said:
wE hOlD aLL tHe cARdSHYUFD said:Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.
However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20
Coordinated action by the EU helped to prevent over fishing and improve fish stocks?
Fish don’t recognise national borders. EU law prevents younger fish being harvested in one territorial water until they are bigger fish swum into another’s territorial water?
Big percentage of Cod consumed in UK comes from EU and Brexit doesn’t change that, because although cod can swim out of EU waters and live okay in ours, they don’t tend to?
In the bad old days without joining in coordinated action, times we could return to, there was over fishing, no good to anyone, also fish harvested in UK waters, by UK and EU fleets thanks to EU regulation could get fished earlier a long way from UK waters when they much smaller. So if I’m right, its easy for EU to give way on this, as even a UK win doesn’t amount to much in a practical sense, because we actually got a fair deal out of being part of EU regulation on this one at least?0 -
Worse than being a clıche, it was miňdless pôpulism.DavidL said:
Fair enough. It was in fairness before my first cup of coffee in the morning. I accept its a cliché. (Hope that keeps @TSE happy. )Roger said:
It was "Smug self satisfied blob" that riled posters. An ugly cliche used almost exclusively by 'smug self satisfied' right wing hacks.DavidL said:
A slightly more nuanced response than most this morning. Thanks.kle4 said:
I can see your point in theory as institutions do need a shake up, but something useful needs to come from that shake up. As your permanent revolution line suggests there are limits.DavidL said:Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.
But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.
And blundering in and cocking things about in unearned confidence may in fact shake things up in a way to prevent actually useful shakeups in future.
If some arrogant, rude svengali messes everyone about to the point those following them are wary of even trying to sort things out it has been a net loss, even if the alternative was a sclerotic blob.
It's the 'upsets the right people' level analysis and its crap.1 -
Wowsers. I know that Crown Dependencies have some oversight from the UK government, but I hadn't realised we were happy to just dictate to them over the heads of their elected governments...Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.0 -
Lots of Tories, lots of oof, yes. In contrast, fishermen don't generally count for much in the modern UK unless they are big trawler magnates who are fed up with conservation measures.Beibheirli_C said:
They probably have a lot of Tory's money in their banks.....Carnyx said:
More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.1 -
This has been rehearsed several thousand times on here over the last four or five years, but the primary responsibility for that is entirely with May, and her caving in to the ERG. She specifically excluded the free movement deal that would have made this very easy, very early on.Andy_Cooke said:
Agreed.IanB2 said:
It would have been easiest from a halfway house soft Brexit. Which is why the LibDems and relevant Tories were fools for not pursuing this path when it was on the table.geoffw said:
Hope springs eternal.Roger said:I wonder whether there is any scenario where Brexit could be reversed? With it's architects crashing and with no obvious momentum coming from anywhere else and Ireland and Scotland likely to secede and opinion turning sharply against......
Norman Lamb advocated this pretty much from the day of the referendum result, but too many idiots decided they could stop the entire thing, and nuts to the referendum result.
Which got the result that was obvious from the start.4 -
I've commented many times on the macho, bullying culture around No. 10, and the absence of women in prominent positions - particularly relating to the Covid crisis. Well, the replacement of Cummings and Cain by Stratton and Symonds has turned that on its head, to the good I think. It leaves Priti Patel in an interesting position, because despite her gender I associate her more with the macho bullying culture. I'd put a small bet on her being next to go, especially if Philip Rutnam's bullying allegation against her is found to have substance.
Interesting times. For what it's worth, I suspect that Boris secretly regrets the whole Brexit project. With Covid on top, it's just too much for him. There will be a rubbish deal, lots of caving to the EU, and having dispensed with his right flank within No. 10 Boris will then have problems with his right flank in the Conservative Party, including with a significant rump of MPs. I can't see him emerging from this unscathed.2 -
O the ladies of the harem of the court of King Catactacus, were just passing bygeoffw said:BigG:
I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings...
Wouldnt have thought Carrie would be keen on women getting close to the serial adulterer.0 -
How much? My guess is that it will be less than full membership. As it will remove all of the costs of having to fuck around with customs it will be cheap at half the price. I don't its quite sunk in to people who will be paying the significant costs of having to do customs declarations and paperwork and checks and hiring agents - we will as the end consumers.Stuartinromford said:
I wonder how much we'll voluntarily agree to pay? If this were an episode of Yes, Minister, it would be £50 million a day, wouldn't it?RochdalePioneers said:
The only thing we can do is a deal which keeps things as they are. The EU grant us leave to go and negotiate our own bespoke deals and set our own standards at some future point. We cheer! And then we make the sovereign decision to continue along as we are now with unimpeded goods flowing freely.FeersumEnjineeya said:
It's hard to see how there can be a deal now, at least not of the kind that allows the relatively unimpeded flow of goods. The government has painted itself into corner, and it is not in the EU's interests to compromise sufficiently to allow an escape. January is going to bring utter chaos.kle4 said:
Some people see any deal as being on the EUs terms, from both sides if the divide. The ones who basically go 'the EU wants a deal so it is bad' are pretty frustrating. Even if its weighted more to them than us - negotiations go like that sometimes - it doesn't automatically mean it's bad.HYUFD said:Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.
However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20
The compromise from them is that the UK becomes an associate of the EEA. Not a member you understand. We are going to have UK rules and standards thankyou very much. Its just that our standards happen to be their standards which is rather convenient if you think about it. And to maintain the smooth running we will pay money into a new UKEU trade agreement which absolutely isn't the same as the EU demanding money with menaces as they were before.
We can either agree this up front. Or agree it a few days into the new year after the UK's CDS system fails, they try to revert to CHIEF which can't cope anyway hence the need to replace it, and then we call Brussels and say "as we haven't actually changed any standards yet can we go back to status quo ante?"
(This would, of course, be pointless. It would actually be worse than the status quo ante, because there would be medium-term uncertainty about where the UK would end up and the EU wouldn't have to consider UK interests as its rules evolve. And we weren't really paying £350 million a week before.)
As long as it's never worth the UK actually leaving, the Frogs can boil the frog of Euro integration to their hearts' content.)1 -
Hmm. I haven't watched a minute of The Crown, but I should like to see Gillian Anderson as Thatcher.MaxPB said:
I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.CarlottaVance said:Another The Crown trailer:
https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20
Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.
Do any connoisseurs have a view about whether it's feasible to start watching at this point?0 -
-
English has 12 verb tenses?Dura_Ace said:
I can spot the output of Google Translate in my students' work with 100% accuracy. It's haphazard with les prépositions and at least four of the seven non-compound tenses. I think it's actually worse going from French to English as English has twelve verb tenses and we use them all.OldKingCole said:
Might I suggest that you do what I do; cheat. That is I look up what I want to to write in French on Google or Google translate, then cut and paste.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is beyond my ability to be honestTheScreamingEagles said:
New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving
I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings
I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition
I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow
And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news
It is amazing what you find out. I wonder how many native English speakers actually know that? 1%? Less than 1%?
0 -
The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?Carnyx said:
More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.0 -
There is a habit, amongst people whose side lose to bad guys, of doing down the people the bad guy beat. In Boris’ case, Livingstone and Corbyn, and in Trump’s, Clinton. Maybe Cameron and EdM tooMysticrose said:
Cameron won an outright election victory against a far better opponent than Johnson had to face. Johnson was up against the most unelectable leader of a main party in the history of British politics. No debate. And a vile racist at that.SouthamObserver said:A Tory pivot back to cuddly Cameroonism will be very good news for Nigel Farage. And, therefore, for Labour.
Just saying.
Does this apply when the supposed good guy wins? Starmer ONLY beat RLB, Biden ONLY beat Trump, and so on?0 -
I'm also told that it will wind up the 13% as the series focuses on her great achievements, as you say, the legend of Mrs Thatcher.CarlottaVance said:
Will Gompertz described the performance as mannered bordering on unwatchable!MaxPB said:
I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.CarlottaVance said:Another The Crown trailer:
https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20
Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.
I suspect she's playing "Thatcher the myth" rather than "Thatcher the person" - which is fair enough, as its a drama, not a documentary, and the myth is always more interesting.
It will be interesting to see if she's got the deportment right (a cross between a waddle and tottering forward).
Coleman is hopeless in that deportment department as the queen - as she herself acknowledges she "walks like a farmer".0 -
I just noticed the sub heading 'This really is the end of an era'
Eras are getting very short these days.2 -
Starmer yes.isam said:
There is a habit, amongst people whose side lose to bad guys, of doing down the people the bad guy beat. In Boris’ case, Livingstone and Corbyn, and in Trump’s, Clinton. Maybe Cameron and EdM tooMysticrose said:
Cameron won an outright election victory against a far better opponent than Johnson had to face. Johnson was up against the most unelectable leader of a main party in the history of British politics. No debate. And a vile racist at that.SouthamObserver said:A Tory pivot back to cuddly Cameroonism will be very good news for Nigel Farage. And, therefore, for Labour.
Just saying.
Does this apply when the supposed good guy wins? Starmer ONLY beat RLB, Biden ONLY beat Trump, and so on?
Biden no - Trump got record number of votes in both his elections and comfortably defeated a packed field for his initial nomination. He would probably have beaten most of the Democratic challengers this time as around. Dislikeable as he is, he is certainly effective.0 -
We need a mix of public and private provision too, Labour's ideological obsession with the state running and funding all healthcare via tax is why it is held back.OnlyLivingBoy said:
France and Germany have a mixture of public and private insurance and a mixture of public and private provision (eg 38% of French hospital beds are in private hospitals). So moving from a system of public provision free at the point of use to this kind of system is accurately referred to as privatisation.HYUFD said:
It is not privatising the NHS, it would be moving to a social insurance healthcare system like even France and Germany have if you read the articleOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
The purpose of this kind of move is to switch the burden of paying for the system from all taxpayers onto individuals. Generally it will mean higher payments for middle income people on PAYE as a French or German system is basically a hypothecated tax on salaried income, with a resultant drop in tax for those with large incomes from capital. Plus you will allow the wealthy to access superior care with some of the cost subsidised, rather than having to pay for the NHS while also paying for private insurance as now. You can see why this is a donor class wet dream and why it was so important to dangle Brexit in front of those red wall voters, who would never have voted for this but may be getting it anyway, judging from this article.
However that is still not the same as having a US style system where private insurance funds virtually all healthcare and all hospitals are private0 -
Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]CarlottaVance said:
The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?Carnyx said:
More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.1 -
Like the UK, a lot of whats caught goes straight to France! Which of course gets more complicated from January 1.Carnyx said:
PS How important is fishing in the CIs? I have no idea. Is it just local crabs for the restaurants, or what?CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.
And the CI-Normandy have been managing things between them since 1839 - so are unlikely to benefit from "help" from any of London, Brussels or Paris:
https://fisheries.msc.org/en/fisheries/normandy-and-jersey-lobster/about/
And it's not the first time the UK government has caused problems for Guernsey & France: After the UK left the EU on 31 January, Guernsey was forced to introduce permits because it was no longer party to the London Fisheries Convention, which governs access to waters for its signatories.
Mr Le Tocq said the disruption had been caused by the fact Guernsey was informed "only 10 days" before 31 January that it was not covered by EU regulation and it would be illegal for French fisherman to operate there.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-guernsey-51364513
0 -
Thanks. Exactly the sort of local fishery that is getting really fretful in Scotland, too.CarlottaVance said:
Like the UK, a lot of whats caught goes straight to France! Which of course gets more complicated from January 1.Carnyx said:
PS How important is fishing in the CIs? I have no idea. Is it just local crabs for the restaurants, or what?CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.
And the CI-Normandy have been managing things between them since 1839 - so are unlikely to benefit from "help" from any of London, Brussels or Paris:
https://fisheries.msc.org/en/fisheries/normandy-and-jersey-lobster/about/0 -
I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.HYUFD said:Adonis backs the Euro
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=201 -
Didnt realize WW1 was an illegal war based on a complete falsehood.HYUFD said:0 -
"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?Carnyx said:
Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]CarlottaVance said:
The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?Carnyx said:
More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.0 -
You probably can as the characters are largely based on real life so you can pick up most of the character development pretty easily if you know the story of the royals and post war political history (and if you post here then I expect you have a passing interest in the latter at least!).Chris said:
Hmm. I haven't watched a minute of The Crown, but I should like to see Gillian Anderson as Thatcher.MaxPB said:
I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.CarlottaVance said:Another The Crown trailer:
https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20
Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.
Do any connoisseurs have a view about whether it's feasible to start watching at this point?
It's an absolutely incredible series though and I can't recommend watching it from the start enough. Genuinely the best British TV series to be made in ages.1 -
We all know the history, so there’s no real need for ”previously on...”Chris said:
Hmm. I haven't watched a minute of The Crown, but I should like to see Gillian Anderson as Thatcher.MaxPB said:
I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.CarlottaVance said:Another The Crown trailer:
https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20
Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.
Do any connoisseurs have a view about whether it's feasible to start watching at this point?
Jump in!0 -
It is history. You can join in whenever you want. That is why it does not matter if @ydoethur takes the odd week or two off sick.Chris said:
Hmm. I haven't watched a minute of The Crown, but I should like to see Gillian Anderson as Thatcher.MaxPB said:
I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.CarlottaVance said:Another The Crown trailer:
https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20
Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.
Do any connoisseurs have a view about whether it's feasible to start watching at this point?0 -
And quite often doubly so - as a lot of exports will be increasing their UK prices to cross-subsidies their exports now the cost of imports from Europe is higher.RochdalePioneers said:
How much? My guess is that it will be less than full membership. As it will remove all of the costs of having to fuck around with customs it will be cheap at half the price. I don't its quite sunk in to people who will be paying the significant costs of having to do customs declarations and paperwork and checks and hiring agents - we will as the end consumers.Stuartinromford said:
I wonder how much we'll voluntarily agree to pay? If this were an episode of Yes, Minister, it would be £50 million a day, wouldn't it?RochdalePioneers said:
The only thing we can do is a deal which keeps things as they are. The EU grant us leave to go and negotiate our own bespoke deals and set our own standards at some future point. We cheer! And then we make the sovereign decision to continue along as we are now with unimpeded goods flowing freely.FeersumEnjineeya said:
It's hard to see how there can be a deal now, at least not of the kind that allows the relatively unimpeded flow of goods. The government has painted itself into corner, and it is not in the EU's interests to compromise sufficiently to allow an escape. January is going to bring utter chaos.kle4 said:
Some people see any deal as being on the EUs terms, from both sides if the divide. The ones who basically go 'the EU wants a deal so it is bad' are pretty frustrating. Even if its weighted more to them than us - negotiations go like that sometimes - it doesn't automatically mean it's bad.HYUFD said:Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.
However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20
The compromise from them is that the UK becomes an associate of the EEA. Not a member you understand. We are going to have UK rules and standards thankyou very much. Its just that our standards happen to be their standards which is rather convenient if you think about it. And to maintain the smooth running we will pay money into a new UKEU trade agreement which absolutely isn't the same as the EU demanding money with menaces as they were before.
We can either agree this up front. Or agree it a few days into the new year after the UK's CDS system fails, they try to revert to CHIEF which can't cope anyway hence the need to replace it, and then we call Brussels and say "as we haven't actually changed any standards yet can we go back to status quo ante?"
(This would, of course, be pointless. It would actually be worse than the status quo ante, because there would be medium-term uncertainty about where the UK would end up and the EU wouldn't have to consider UK interests as its rules evolve. And we weren't really paying £350 million a week before.)
As long as it's never worth the UK actually leaving, the Frogs can boil the frog of Euro integration to their hearts' content.)0 -
Yep. The single biggest thing that would improve the quality of government in this country and every other country is to have more women running things.Northern_Al said:I've commented many times on the macho, bullying culture around No. 10, and the absence of women in prominent positions - particularly relating to the Covid crisis. Well, the replacement of Cummings and Cain by Stratton and Symonds has turned that on its head, to the good I think. It leaves Priti Patel in an interesting position, because despite her gender I associate her more with the macho bullying culture. I'd put a small bet on her being next to go, especially if Philip Rutnam's bullying allegation against her is found to have substance.
Interesting times. For what it's worth, I suspect that Boris secretly regrets the whole Brexit project. With Covid on top, it's just too much for him. There will be a rubbish deal, lots of caving to the EU, and having dispensed with his right flank within No. 10 Boris will then have problems with his right flank in the Conservative Party, including with a significant rump of MPs. I can't see him emerging from this unscathed.3 -
Ultimately though it doesn't save money. Less in taxes, but more in compulsory insurance payments. The average worker looking at his payroll deductions won't see a lot of difference.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Germany's health system is far from evil, but it is expensive. I'm not sure we'd be prepared to pay that much.JohnLilburne said:
Germany has a social insurance system for public health care, as do many other European companies. Presumably evil privatisation imposed by equally evil right wing governmentsOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
There are many other ways of structuring a nations healthcare, and often valid reasons to do so, but they won't put money in the pockets of Joe and Jill Voter.0 -
At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).lBeibheirli_C said:
"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?Carnyx said:
Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]CarlottaVance said:
The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?Carnyx said:
More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.1 -
The German government spends more on healthcare than ours. So does the American government.HYUFD said:
We need a mix of public and private provision too, Labour's ideological obsession with the state running and funding all healthcare via tax is why it is held back.OnlyLivingBoy said:
France and Germany have a mixture of public and private insurance and a mixture of public and private provision (eg 38% of French hospital beds are in private hospitals). So moving from a system of public provision free at the point of use to this kind of system is accurately referred to as privatisation.HYUFD said:
It is not privatising the NHS, it would be moving to a social insurance healthcare system like even France and Germany have if you read the articleOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
The purpose of this kind of move is to switch the burden of paying for the system from all taxpayers onto individuals. Generally it will mean higher payments for middle income people on PAYE as a French or German system is basically a hypothecated tax on salaried income, with a resultant drop in tax for those with large incomes from capital. Plus you will allow the wealthy to access superior care with some of the cost subsidised, rather than having to pay for the NHS while also paying for private insurance as now. You can see why this is a donor class wet dream and why it was so important to dangle Brexit in front of those red wall voters, who would never have voted for this but may be getting it anyway, judging from this article.
However that is still not the same as having a US style system where private insurance funds virtually all healthcare and all hospitals are private0 -
The concern surely has to be that by tying health cover to anything other than residency, you will create situations where people fall through the gaps. And public health is an issue that transcends individual choice. If I had one hope for a good outcome from covid-19, it was that people would learn this truth. I was far, far too optimistic.Foxy said:
Ultimately though it doesn't save money. Less in taxes, but more in compulsory insurance payments. The average worker looking at his payroll deductions won't see a lot of difference.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Germany's health system is far from evil, but it is expensive. I'm not sure we'd be prepared to pay that much.JohnLilburne said:
Germany has a social insurance system for public health care, as do many other European companies. Presumably evil privatisation imposed by equally evil right wing governmentsOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
There are many other ways of structuring a nations healthcare, and often valid reasons to do so, but they won't put money in the pockets of Joe and Jill Voter.0 -
They're not. Remotely.RochdalePioneers said:
Wowsers. I know that Crown Dependencies have some oversight from the UK government, but I hadn't realised we were happy to just dictate to them over the heads of their elected governments...Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.0 -
You can jump in at any point, but I'd recommend watching from the start, you'll miss Claire Foy's and Matt Smith's brilliant portrayals.Chris said:
Hmm. I haven't watched a minute of The Crown, but I should like to see Gillian Anderson as Thatcher.MaxPB said:
I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.CarlottaVance said:Another The Crown trailer:
https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20
Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.
Do any connoisseurs have a view about whether it's feasible to start watching at this point?
Plus the very first episode has the best scene IMHO, when Churchill arrives at the wedding of Princess Elizabeth whilst 'I vow to thee my country' is being sung.2 -
What it does is make someone accountable for the delays and fuck ups. Right now the cult of the NHS protects it from any valid criticism and we end up with year long waiting lists for routine procedures. In Switzerland I'd pay around the same for my insurance as I do over here in tax contributions to the NHS but the service is incredible. I wouldn't need Babylon, Exeter and BUPA in addition to my taxes.Foxy said:
Ultimately though it doesn't save money. Less in taxes, but more in compulsory insurance payments. The average worker looking at his payroll deductions won't see a lot of difference.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Germany's health system is far from evil, but it is expensive. I'm not sure we'd be prepared to pay that much.JohnLilburne said:
Germany has a social insurance system for public health care, as do many other European companies. Presumably evil privatisation imposed by equally evil right wing governmentsOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
There are many other ways of structuring a nations healthcare, and often valid reasons to do so, but they won't put money in the pockets of Joe and Jill Voter.1 -
If other women have influence with Boris then Patel could be in real trouble.Northern_Al said:I've commented many times on the macho, bullying culture around No. 10, and the absence of women in prominent positions - particularly relating to the Covid crisis. Well, the replacement of Cummings and Cain by Stratton and Symonds has turned that on its head, to the good I think. It leaves Priti Patel in an interesting position, because despite her gender I associate her more with the macho bullying culture. I'd put a small bet on her being next to go, especially if Philip Rutnam's bullying allegation against her is found to have substance.
0 -
If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).SandyRentool said:
I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.HYUFD said:Adonis backs the Euro
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=202 -
But they can't. The CI "report" to the queen - not the UK government.Carnyx said:
Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]CarlottaVance said:
The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?Carnyx said:
More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.
0 -
-
We have a mix of private and public provision: almost all pharmacies, dentists and and a significant number of GP practices are private and they are the primary means by which we access the NHS. Eyecare is almost entirely private. It is hospital care where the public is pretty much a monopoly.HYUFD said:
We need a mix of public and private provision too, Labour's ideological obsession with the state running and funding all healthcare via tax is why it is held back.OnlyLivingBoy said:
France and Germany have a mixture of public and private insurance and a mixture of public and private provision (eg 38% of French hospital beds are in private hospitals). So moving from a system of public provision free at the point of use to this kind of system is accurately referred to as privatisation.HYUFD said:
It is not privatising the NHS, it would be moving to a social insurance healthcare system like even France and Germany have if you read the articleOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
The purpose of this kind of move is to switch the burden of paying for the system from all taxpayers onto individuals. Generally it will mean higher payments for middle income people on PAYE as a French or German system is basically a hypothecated tax on salaried income, with a resultant drop in tax for those with large incomes from capital. Plus you will allow the wealthy to access superior care with some of the cost subsidised, rather than having to pay for the NHS while also paying for private insurance as now. You can see why this is a donor class wet dream and why it was so important to dangle Brexit in front of those red wall voters, who would never have voted for this but may be getting it anyway, judging from this article.
However that is still not the same as having a US style system where private insurance funds virtually all healthcare and all hospitals are private0 -
I tend not to post, let alone re-post, stuff from my blog, but people who think women would make things lovely need a history lesson:
https://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.com/2015/10/macedonian-she-wolves.html0 -
Why would they want to be anywhere other than Cod's Own Country?bigjohnowls said:
Any Cod that stay in EU waters and don;t swim to ours are TRAITORS!!!gealbhan said:
I still don’t get argument over fishing. Put me right here. How can it be so important to our independence, surely we have to pool sovereignty into fishing agreement for the sake of the fish? please put me right if the following are incorrect.Gallowgate said:
wE hOlD aLL tHe cARdSHYUFD said:Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.
However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20
Coordinated action by the EU helped to prevent over fishing and improve fish stocks?
Fish don’t recognise national borders. EU law prevents younger fish being harvested in one territorial water until they are bigger fish swum into another’s territorial water?
Big percentage of Cod consumed in UK comes from EU and Brexit doesn’t change that, because although cod can swim out of EU waters and live okay in ours, they don’t tend to?
In the bad old days without joining in coordinated action, times we could return to, there was over fishing, no good to anyone, also fish harvested in UK waters, by UK and EU fleets thanks to EU regulation could get fished earlier a long way from UK waters when they much smaller. So if I’m right, its easy for EU to give way on this, as even a UK win doesn’t amount to much in a practical sense, because we actually got a fair deal out of being part of EU regulation on this one at least?2 -
That advantage being.. what? Denying care for people with pre-existing conditions? What's your aim?MrEd said:
If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).SandyRentool said:
I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.HYUFD said:Adonis backs the Euro
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=200 -
The US only spends more once you include private spending, we have about the average public spending on health but lower private spending than averageDecrepiterJohnL said:
The German government spends more on healthcare than ours. So does the American government.HYUFD said:
We need a mix of public and private provision too, Labour's ideological obsession with the state running and funding all healthcare via tax is why it is held back.OnlyLivingBoy said:
France and Germany have a mixture of public and private insurance and a mixture of public and private provision (eg 38% of French hospital beds are in private hospitals). So moving from a system of public provision free at the point of use to this kind of system is accurately referred to as privatisation.HYUFD said:
It is not privatising the NHS, it would be moving to a social insurance healthcare system like even France and Germany have if you read the articleOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
The purpose of this kind of move is to switch the burden of paying for the system from all taxpayers onto individuals. Generally it will mean higher payments for middle income people on PAYE as a French or German system is basically a hypothecated tax on salaried income, with a resultant drop in tax for those with large incomes from capital. Plus you will allow the wealthy to access superior care with some of the cost subsidised, rather than having to pay for the NHS while also paying for private insurance as now. You can see why this is a donor class wet dream and why it was so important to dangle Brexit in front of those red wall voters, who would never have voted for this but may be getting it anyway, judging from this article.
However that is still not the same as having a US style system where private insurance funds virtually all healthcare and all hospitals are private
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-u-s-similar-public-spending-private-sector-spending-triple-comparable-countries0 -
The view at the time, and now, is that WW1 was a largely pointless war fought for causes no-one could, or can, clearly identify. In that way it is the polar opposite of WW2.bigjohnowls said:
Didnt realize WW1 was an illegal war based on a complete falsehood.HYUFD said:0 -
Or perhaps HYFUD will want to nuke them from orbit? Just to be sure....Carnyx said:
At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).lBeibheirli_C said:
"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?Carnyx said:
Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]CarlottaVance said:
The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?Carnyx said:
More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot. 1 -
Didn't know you had a blog, thanks for alerting me to it.Morris_Dancer said:I tend not to post, let alone re-post, stuff from my blog, but people who think women would make things lovely need a history lesson:
https://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.com/2015/10/macedonian-she-wolves.html0 -
Really? Bizarrely enough, women come in all different shapes and guises, with a range of different attitudes and opinions. Priti Patel and Caroline Lucas may be both women but they have fundamental different approaches (although Caroline has a bit of an authoritarian streak in her as well, I would imagine).kinabalu said:
Yep. The single biggest thing that would improve the quality of government in this country and every other country is to have more women running things.Northern_Al said:I've commented many times on the macho, bullying culture around No. 10, and the absence of women in prominent positions - particularly relating to the Covid crisis. Well, the replacement of Cummings and Cain by Stratton and Symonds has turned that on its head, to the good I think. It leaves Priti Patel in an interesting position, because despite her gender I associate her more with the macho bullying culture. I'd put a small bet on her being next to go, especially if Philip Rutnam's bullying allegation against her is found to have substance.
Interesting times. For what it's worth, I suspect that Boris secretly regrets the whole Brexit project. With Covid on top, it's just too much for him. There will be a rubbish deal, lots of caving to the EU, and having dispensed with his right flank within No. 10 Boris will then have problems with his right flank in the Conservative Party, including with a significant rump of MPs. I can't see him emerging from this unscathed.
For all his faults, Dominic Cummings was right that many of the existing systems are failing and a large part of that is due to the narrow mindset of the civil service establishment that runs the UK. I don't think having two posh women in the form of Carrie Symonds and Allegra Stratton is really progress - quite the opposite.1 -
Agreed, the Crown got us through early lockdown. It's basically a very superior soap opera. Series 1 and 2 are the best so far anyway, Claire Foy is an incredible actress (as she was in Wolf Hall too), there's too much of Sophie from Peep Show in Olivia Colman's depiction of HMQ if you ask me. Although the Aberfan episode in series 3 was very moving. Can't wait for series 4.MaxPB said:
You probably can as the characters are largely based on real life so you can pick up most of the character development pretty easily if you know the story of the royals and post war political history (and if you post here then I expect you have a passing interest in the latter at least!).Chris said:
Hmm. I haven't watched a minute of The Crown, but I should like to see Gillian Anderson as Thatcher.MaxPB said:
I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.CarlottaVance said:Another The Crown trailer:
https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20
Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.
Do any connoisseurs have a view about whether it's feasible to start watching at this point?
It's an absolutely incredible series though and I can't recommend watching it from the start enough. Genuinely the best British TV series to be made in ages.0 -
Important day for Starmer as Labour NEC elections to be announced imminently.0
-
The advantage being that it aligns with how it works on the continent and that's what government regulations are for, so that insurance companies can't deny or price out people with pre-existing conditions.Roy_G_Biv said:
That advantage being.. what? Denying care for people with pre-existing conditions? What's your aim?MrEd said:
If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).SandyRentool said:
I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.HYUFD said:Adonis backs the Euro
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=20
The aim is to make the welfare system contributory rather than non-contributory.0 -
Also: Theresa, Kate, Dido. No point in sexism in either direction here.MrEd said:
Really? Bizarrely enough, women come in all different shapes and guises, with a range of different attitudes and opinions. Priti Patel and Caroline Lucas may be both women but they have fundamental different approaches (although Caroline has a bit of an authoritarian streak in her as well, I would imagine).kinabalu said:
Yep. The single biggest thing that would improve the quality of government in this country and every other country is to have more women running things.Northern_Al said:I've commented many times on the macho, bullying culture around No. 10, and the absence of women in prominent positions - particularly relating to the Covid crisis. Well, the replacement of Cummings and Cain by Stratton and Symonds has turned that on its head, to the good I think. It leaves Priti Patel in an interesting position, because despite her gender I associate her more with the macho bullying culture. I'd put a small bet on her being next to go, especially if Philip Rutnam's bullying allegation against her is found to have substance.
Interesting times. For what it's worth, I suspect that Boris secretly regrets the whole Brexit project. With Covid on top, it's just too much for him. There will be a rubbish deal, lots of caving to the EU, and having dispensed with his right flank within No. 10 Boris will then have problems with his right flank in the Conservative Party, including with a significant rump of MPs. I can't see him emerging from this unscathed.
For all his faults, Dominic Cummings was right that many of the existing systems are failing and a large part of that is due to the narrow mindset of the civil service establishment that runs the UK. I don't think having two posh women in the form of Carrie Symonds and Allegra Stratton is really progress - quite the opposite.0 -
Dido of Carnage?kinabalu said:
Yep. The single biggest thing that would improve the quality of government in this country and every other country is to have more women running things.Northern_Al said:I've commented many times on the macho, bullying culture around No. 10, and the absence of women in prominent positions - particularly relating to the Covid crisis. Well, the replacement of Cummings and Cain by Stratton and Symonds has turned that on its head, to the good I think. It leaves Priti Patel in an interesting position, because despite her gender I associate her more with the macho bullying culture. I'd put a small bet on her being next to go, especially if Philip Rutnam's bullying allegation against her is found to have substance.
Interesting times. For what it's worth, I suspect that Boris secretly regrets the whole Brexit project. With Covid on top, it's just too much for him. There will be a rubbish deal, lots of caving to the EU, and having dispensed with his right flank within No. 10 Boris will then have problems with his right flank in the Conservative Party, including with a significant rump of MPs. I can't see him emerging from this unscathed.2 -
You seem to have misread your graph which shows 8.5% USA vs 7.7% dear old Blighty.HYUFD said:
The US only spends more once you include private spending, we have about the average public spending on health but lower private spending than averageDecrepiterJohnL said:
The German government spends more on healthcare than ours. So does the American government.HYUFD said:
We need a mix of public and private provision too, Labour's ideological obsession with the state running and funding all healthcare via tax is why it is held back.OnlyLivingBoy said:
France and Germany have a mixture of public and private insurance and a mixture of public and private provision (eg 38% of French hospital beds are in private hospitals). So moving from a system of public provision free at the point of use to this kind of system is accurately referred to as privatisation.HYUFD said:
It is not privatising the NHS, it would be moving to a social insurance healthcare system like even France and Germany have if you read the articleOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.Mexicanpete said:
Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.HYUFD said:
Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
The purpose of this kind of move is to switch the burden of paying for the system from all taxpayers onto individuals. Generally it will mean higher payments for middle income people on PAYE as a French or German system is basically a hypothecated tax on salaried income, with a resultant drop in tax for those with large incomes from capital. Plus you will allow the wealthy to access superior care with some of the cost subsidised, rather than having to pay for the NHS while also paying for private insurance as now. You can see why this is a donor class wet dream and why it was so important to dangle Brexit in front of those red wall voters, who would never have voted for this but may be getting it anyway, judging from this article.
However that is still not the same as having a US style system where private insurance funds virtually all healthcare and all hospitals are private
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-u-s-similar-public-spending-private-sector-spending-triple-comparable-countries0 -
-
Mr. JS, thanks, hope you find bits interesting. I update it a little less frequently now, partly due to having less time and partly because lots of the historical things I'd want to write about I've already done.0
-
But surely Mr Johnson is acting on Her Maj's behalf, as he does 100% of the time? It's not as if we are talking about the gardener's hut or the trout fishing at Balmoral (a private possesson of HM).CarlottaVance said:
But they can't. The CI "report" to the queen - not the UK government.Carnyx said:
Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]CarlottaVance said:
The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?Carnyx said:
More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.CarlottaVance said:
What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.Carnyx said:
https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/Beibheirli_C said:
Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.CarlottaVance said:Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/
I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.
And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.
So they have to appeal to her personally? Or what? What would be the political impact of having to do that, locally and more widely? I do wonder for a start what a successful appeal would do in Scotland, NI and Wales.
Presumably there is some precedent somewhere in WW2.
(Just checked - yes, different status from Gib, which is an Oversdeas Territory).0 -
He does have a clear unambiguous precedent of being able to kick out any dissenters from the Tory party. With an 80 majority he could afford to eject the first wave of Brexiteer critics as a signal to the rest to pipe down.Northern_Al said:I've commented many times on the macho, bullying culture around No. 10, and the absence of women in prominent positions - particularly relating to the Covid crisis. Well, the replacement of Cummings and Cain by Stratton and Symonds has turned that on its head, to the good I think. It leaves Priti Patel in an interesting position, because despite her gender I associate her more with the macho bullying culture. I'd put a small bet on her being next to go, especially if Philip Rutnam's bullying allegation against her is found to have substance.
Interesting times. For what it's worth, I suspect that Boris secretly regrets the whole Brexit project. With Covid on top, it's just too much for him. There will be a rubbish deal, lots of caving to the EU, and having dispensed with his right flank within No. 10 Boris will then have problems with his right flank in the Conservative Party, including with a significant rump of MPs. I can't see him emerging from this unscathed.0 -
A contributory system always sounds nice but the problem is that either you do what it says on the tin and deny access to people who can't or won't contribute, in which case you're leaving people to die outside the hospital for lack of healthcare, or you don't, in which case you've created a load of administration to no purpose.MrEd said:
If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).SandyRentool said:
I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.HYUFD said:Adonis backs the Euro
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=20
You can of course provide *better* services to people who have contributed, and only a bare minimum to the deadbeats, but public services generally aren't funded to have a lot of fat left to cut, so that implies that you're spending a load of extra money on contributors, and the whole thing's going to cost more in total.0
This discussion has been closed.