This Daily Express WH2020 “poll” is not what it seems – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Love the way Barrett gets to pretend she has no idea how she might vote on a future abortion case which comes before the Supreme Court.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/13/amy-coney-barrett-confirmation-hearing-democrats-429172
Does anyone really believe that ?0 -
In fact SAGE is viewing it in terms of tomorrow's problems. This is storing up a lot of serious problems for the future in terms of poverty and mental health as well as social breakdown. Apparently missing a million cancer screenings is no big deal to them.RobD said:
Except SAGE is only viewing this from a health perspective. The government does have to consider the effect on the economy before coming to a decision.Jonathan said:Tories asked Starmer for a plan. He merely reiterated scientists recommendation.
Tories in meltdown 🤷♂️0 -
Yeah, and I don't doubt it was seriously considered.Jonathan said:
Things are in a bad state. It’s clearly sadly an option that needs serious consideration.RobD said:
Except SAGE is only viewing this from a health perspective. The government does have to consider the effect on the economy before coming to a decision.Jonathan said:Tories asked Starmer for a plan. He merely reiterated scientists recommendation.
Tories in meltdown 🤷♂️0 -
Now there's an opening to lose an audience.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And if Boris plan succeeds Starmer will forever be the Labour leader who demanded the closure of the whole UK economyGallowgate said:
The play here is that Keir is gambling on Boris having to do this anyway in a couple of weeks, and thus following rather than leading.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Closing down the whole economy on the hope that in three weeks we will have curtailed the virus by 28 days is nonsenseCorrectHorseBattery said:I can see PB Tories are rattled.
I can see the GE posters already0 -
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But they can still bang on about their freedom being eroded by Labour. Johnsonians like doing that.Gallowgate said:
The "red wall" is already in near lockdown. The change would be marginal.Mexicanpete said:
At least Starmer has committed one way or the other. I think it is fairly low risk, but you are right the Red Wall won't like it.RochdalePioneers said:Its smart politics from SKS. Or is it - we know Red Wall Lab > Tory switchers are still backing Shagger. I get that - when you make that kind of leap you might look like a bit of a fool to switch back straight away. Are Red wallers going to back SKS saying stay home - when in a lot of places it seems "normal" still? Or back Shagger still...?
It does seem like the right thing to do politics aside.0 -
Whether one agrees with it or not (not sure I do), it is good and fairly ruthless politics. It puts the Rudderless One in a massive lose-lose.Gallowgate said:
The play here is that Keir is gambling on Boris having to do this anyway in a couple of weeks, and thus following rather than leading.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Closing down the whole economy on the hope that in three weeks we will have curtailed the virus by 28 days is nonsenseCorrectHorseBattery said:I can see PB Tories are rattled.
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Does Starmer want us to do what we did in March? Would he stop the Premier League from playing?0
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One is people being killed by our government and the other by an incurable disease. I'd say the latter would be easier for the deceased's loved ones to deal withkinabalu said:
Why is more people dying from the effects of lockdown than from Covid-19 a problem?Andy_JS said:
The problem is the strong possibility that more people will die in the long-term from the effects of the lockdown than from Covid-19 itself.CorrectHorseBattery said:The lockdown should be as long as necessary to get the cases down.
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You might want to look at "Non-transitive Grime Dice". Type that into Youtube then go and fleece your opponentsTimT said:For those interested in science and luck, this looks to be an interesting event online tomorrow:
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/a-series-of-fortunate-events-with-sean-b-carroll-and-seth-macfarlane-tickets-124356283993?utm_campaign=b2b280a391-NAP_mail_new_2020_10_12&goal=0_96101de015-b2b280a391-103509793&utm_term=0_96101de015-b2b280a391-103509793&utm_source=NASEM+News+and+Publications&utm_medium=email&mc_eid=f7b85b4f9e&mc_cid=b2b280a391
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If you want serious consideration , I am not confident that this administration is the first place to look.RobD said:
Yeah, and I don't doubt it was seriously considered.Jonathan said:
Things are in a bad state. It’s clearly sadly an option that needs serious consideration.RobD said:
Except SAGE is only viewing this from a health perspective. The government does have to consider the effect on the economy before coming to a decision.Jonathan said:Tories asked Starmer for a plan. He merely reiterated scientists recommendation.
Tories in meltdown 🤷♂️0 -
PB Tories will deny it but the only thing that has worked in the UK was a lockdown. The mistake was coming out too quickly without a proper track and trace system. We can only blame Johnson for that.0
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Daltrey is a Brexiteer, so not a surpriseBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
WHO have said to all leaders to stop using lockdowns0 -
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All the leaders in the UK acted together and it was the right thing to do thenJonathan said:
Silly Comment. Boris actually closed the UK.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And if Boris plan succeeds Starmer will forever be the Labour leader who demanded the closure of the whole UK economyGallowgate said:
The play here is that Keir is gambling on Boris having to do this anyway in a couple of weeks, and thus following rather than leading.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Closing down the whole economy on the hope that in three weeks we will have curtailed the virus by 28 days is nonsenseCorrectHorseBattery said:I can see PB Tories are rattled.
I can see the GE posters already
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So just teachers going to work, everything else to close?Jonathan said:
Things are in a bad state. It’s clearly sadly an option that needs serious consideration.RobD said:
Except SAGE is only viewing this from a health perspective. The government does have to consider the effect on the economy before coming to a decision.Jonathan said:Tories asked Starmer for a plan. He merely reiterated scientists recommendation.
Tories in meltdown 🤷♂️0 -
Ok think this through for more than two seconds then. What will another lockdown achieve, given that we know there still won't be a properr track, trace and isolate system in place afterwards.CorrectHorseBattery said:PB Tories will deny it but the only thing that has worked in the UK was a lockdown. The mistake was coming out too quickly without a proper track and trace system. We can only blame Johnson for that.
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All in EnglandNerysHughes said:
So which businesses will have to close?NickPalmer said:
Excellent, and about time.CorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
New iPhone shortly.0
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I am sure in your world everything is going swimmingly at the moment. Move along, Boris’ plans are working. No need to think at all.Big_G_NorthWales said:
All the leaders in the UK acted together and it was the right thing to do thenJonathan said:
Silly Comment. Boris actually closed the UK.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And if Boris plan succeeds Starmer will forever be the Labour leader who demanded the closure of the whole UK economyGallowgate said:
The play here is that Keir is gambling on Boris having to do this anyway in a couple of weeks, and thus following rather than leading.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Closing down the whole economy on the hope that in three weeks we will have curtailed the virus by 28 days is nonsenseCorrectHorseBattery said:I can see PB Tories are rattled.
I can see the GE posters already0 -
This will age like fine milk when BoZo copies him in a few days...
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/13160577608245289010 -
In order for it to be effective it needs Serco Test Trace and Isolate to be turned into world class service or even a bit above average in the next 3 weeks when it hasnt managed that in last 6 months.FeersumEnjineeya said:
They'll come round to it when the hospitals are full of dying covid patients this Christmas. It'll be far too late then, of course.Mexicanpete said:
At least Starmer has committed one way or the other. I think it is fairly low risk, but you are right the Red Wall won't like it.RochdalePioneers said:Its smart politics from SKS. Or is it - we know Red Wall Lab > Tory switchers are still backing Shagger. I get that - when you make that kind of leap you might look like a bit of a fool to switch back straight away. Are Red wallers going to back SKS saying stay home - when in a lot of places it seems "normal" still? Or back Shagger still...?
It does seem like the right thing to do politics aside.
What a Tory shitshow1 -
£100 bet ?Scott_xP said:This will age like fine milk when BoZo copies him in a few days...
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/13160577608245289010 -
"The UK was asking to in effect stay part of the EU’s energy single market, the economic value of which was “five times” that of fish, he said."
Only 5?0 -
https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1316058102731608068
Perhaps they need FTTH. What happened to that?0 -
I’m not ‘going’ to work now and didn’t in March.NerysHughes said:
So just teachers going to work, everything else to close?Jonathan said:
Things are in a bad state. It’s clearly sadly an option that needs serious consideration.RobD said:
Except SAGE is only viewing this from a health perspective. The government does have to consider the effect on the economy before coming to a decision.Jonathan said:Tories asked Starmer for a plan. He merely reiterated scientists recommendation.
Tories in meltdown 🤷♂️0 -
Take your point but let's see. The rate of rise is slower than in March/April I think.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Unfortunately, two weeks is probably not long enough now. It would likely have been sufficient if implemented promptly when SAGE said so, but the virus has spread since then. Every day of delay in starting a lockdown adds multiple days to the length of lockdown needed as well as multiple deaths. We should have learned that from March/April.rkrkrk said:Well done Keir Starmer. This is leadership.
It's also I suspect (may be wrong - normally am when guessing how things will play politically) smart politics.
Crucially Keir needs to make it clear this short lockdown is to prevent a longer lockdown.
Boris is going to have to go to lockdown at some point, and now he is following Keir. And when Boris' lockdown is longer, Labour can say 'we could have prevented this and we said so at the time'.
So the delay may not be quite as costly. I note Labour said 2-3 weeks so they gave themselves some room.0 -
Chris Green resigns over lockdown.1
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How matureScott_xP said:0 -
Maybe he's in Italy?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1316058102731608068
Perhaps they need FTTH. What happened to that? 0 -
Any idea how many he took? I Know I heard him respond from questions from Peston and Rigby, and one other whose name I missed.NickPalmer said:
No, you're not.dr_spyn said:Am I righting thinking that Starmer take only 3 questions from the media?
I thought he looked in a hurry to move away from the microphones.0 -
So the Tories go into meltdown when someone dares to suggest a way to clear up the latest mess they have allowed to develop.
If they had showed half as much interest and energy in solving the problem we might not have arrived in the shitshow we find ourselves in again.
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Does nobody have Fatima on speed dial?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1316058102731608068
Perhaps they need FTTH. What happened to that?4 -
And Sturgeon, Drakeford and FosterCorrectHorseBattery said:PB Tories will deny it but the only thing that has worked in the UK was a lockdown. The mistake was coming out too quickly without a proper track and trace system. We can only blame Johnson for that.
This was a UK wide decision.
You are aware that Starmer has no say on health in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland0 -
At this rate, the deal is going to get done in January or February, as everyone gets fed up with the effects of not having one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
How matureScott_xP said:0 -
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You say a strong possibility, but what is that possibility? If the epidemic goes back to the levels we saw in April where there were more than one thousand deaths a day in the UK (which also prevented treatment of other curable diseases), what are the deaths of an even greater magnitude that are triggered only through lockdown?Andy_JS said:
The problem is the strong possibility that more people will die in the long-term from the effects of the lockdown than from Covid-19 itself.CorrectHorseBattery said:The lockdown should be as long as necessary to get the cases down.
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Which quote from Barnier do you find immature?Big_G_NorthWales said:
How matureScott_xP said:0 -
"'Near extinction' of influenza in NZ as numbers drop due to lockdown"
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018767843/near-extinction-of-influenza-in-nz-as-numbers-drop-due-to-lockdown
Is this necessarily a good thing? I'm wondering whether if people don't get flu for a year they won't have any immunity to it the future and it could be more dangerous to them when it does return.0 -
Boris has no say in my area, the clue is in my nameJonathan said:
I am sure in your world everything is going swimmingly at the moment. Move along, Boris’ plans are working. No need to think at all.Big_G_NorthWales said:
All the leaders in the UK acted together and it was the right thing to do thenJonathan said:
Silly Comment. Boris actually closed the UK.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And if Boris plan succeeds Starmer will forever be the Labour leader who demanded the closure of the whole UK economyGallowgate said:
The play here is that Keir is gambling on Boris having to do this anyway in a couple of weeks, and thus following rather than leading.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Closing down the whole economy on the hope that in three weeks we will have curtailed the virus by 28 days is nonsenseCorrectHorseBattery said:I can see PB Tories are rattled.
I can see the GE posters already0 -
Even Johnson's analogies are crap these days. "Wobbly trolley's" and "dashboard warning lights on a passenger jet".Scott_xP said:This will age like fine milk when BoZo copies him in a few days...
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1316057760824528901
The man needs to get a grip and start playing at being Prime Minister.2 -
So Johnson has MPs GOING THE OTHER WAY to starmerdixiedean said:Chris Green resigns over lockdown.
Suddenly, I am starting to feel a little sorry for him.1 -
To shut every business in England for at least three weeks, and have just teachers working?Jonathan said:So the Tories go into meltdown when someone dares to suggest a way to clear up the latest mess they have allowed to develop.
If they had showed half as much interest and energy in solving the problem we might not have arrived in the shitshow we find ourselves in again.1 -
That is very goodScott_xP said:This will age like fine milk when BoZo copies him in a few days...
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/13160577608245289010 -
You’re good at hyperbole. Reason, not so much.NerysHughes said:
To shut every business in England for at least three weeks, and have just teachers working?Jonathan said:So the Tories go into meltdown when someone dares to suggest a way to clear up the latest mess they have allowed to develop.
If they had showed half as much interest and energy in solving the problem we might not have arrived in the shitshow we find ourselves in again.1 -
Are you referring to this story, based on the Andrew Neill interview? (Google isn't turning up any others.)Big_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
WHO have said to all leaders to stop using lockdowns
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-12/world-health-organization-coronavirus-lockdown-advice/12753688
"The WHO's special envoy on COVID-19 said they should not be used as the primary method of control.
Dr Nabarro made the statements in an interview with The Spectator.
"The only time we believe a lockdown in justified is to buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources; protect your health workers who are exhausted," Dr Nabarro said.
"But by and large, we'd rather not do it."
So, lockdowns are a bad thing, but needed to buy time if things existing measures aren't working and a country needs to reorganise and regroup.
Because if that is the story you're referring to, maybe "WHO have said to all leaders to stop using lockdowns" is a bit of an oversimplification. Integrity of the record and all that.1 -
France has just abandoned their covid appbigjohnowls said:
In order for it to be effective it needs Serco Test Trace and Isolate to be turned into world class service or even a bit above average in the next 3 weeks when it hasnt managed that in last 6 months.FeersumEnjineeya said:
They'll come round to it when the hospitals are full of dying covid patients this Christmas. It'll be far too late then, of course.Mexicanpete said:
At least Starmer has committed one way or the other. I think it is fairly low risk, but you are right the Red Wall won't like it.RochdalePioneers said:Its smart politics from SKS. Or is it - we know Red Wall Lab > Tory switchers are still backing Shagger. I get that - when you make that kind of leap you might look like a bit of a fool to switch back straight away. Are Red wallers going to back SKS saying stay home - when in a lot of places it seems "normal" still? Or back Shagger still...?
It does seem like the right thing to do politics aside.
What a Tory shitshow-1 -
As Centrists love to say regarding the BBC, if you're upsetting both extremes you must be doing something rightcontrarian said:
So Johnson has MPs GOING THE OTHER WAY to starmerdixiedean said:Chris Green resigns over lockdown.
Suddenly, I am starting to feel a little sorry for him.0 -
LOL. Spoke to a self employed lifetime Labour voter today.CorrectHorseBattery said:Tories are totally rattled, well done Sir Keir
He is appalled at the left's lockdown solution. Applauds the Tory right for accepting that we're going to have to live with this virus, and not shutdown the economy.1 -
P.S. Apols for the rogue apostrophe. Autocorrect, honest!Mexicanpete said:
Even Johnson's analogies are crap these days. "Wobbly trolley's" and "dashboard warning lights on a passenger jet".Scott_xP said:This will age like fine milk when BoZo copies him in a few days...
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1316057760824528901
The man needs to get a grip and start playing at being Prime Minister.0 -
Er... isn't the whole idea to stop people dying?kinabalu said:
Why is more people dying from the effects of lockdown than from Covid-19 a problem?Andy_JS said:
The problem is the strong possibility that more people will die in the long-term from the effects of the lockdown than from Covid-19 itself.CorrectHorseBattery said:The lockdown should be as long as necessary to get the cases down.
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Because Test Trace and isolate is shitBig_G_NorthWales said:
Closing down the whole economy on the hope that in three weeks we will have curtailed the virus by 28 days is nonsenseCorrectHorseBattery said:I can see PB Tories are rattled.
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I'll take a guess that there's 250 people on the Parliamentary Estate, all dialled in individually to the same call via an Internet-based (rather than local server-based) conference solution.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1316058102731608068
Perhaps they need FTTH. What happened to that?0 -
It'll be interesting to know what went wrong.Big_G_NorthWales said:
France has just abandoned their covid appbigjohnowls said:
In order for it to be effective it needs Serco Test Trace and Isolate to be turned into world class service or even a bit above average in the next 3 weeks when it hasnt managed that in last 6 months.FeersumEnjineeya said:
They'll come round to it when the hospitals are full of dying covid patients this Christmas. It'll be far too late then, of course.Mexicanpete said:
At least Starmer has committed one way or the other. I think it is fairly low risk, but you are right the Red Wall won't like it.RochdalePioneers said:Its smart politics from SKS. Or is it - we know Red Wall Lab > Tory switchers are still backing Shagger. I get that - when you make that kind of leap you might look like a bit of a fool to switch back straight away. Are Red wallers going to back SKS saying stay home - when in a lot of places it seems "normal" still? Or back Shagger still...?
It does seem like the right thing to do politics aside.
What a Tory shitshow1 -
Now hold your nerve!Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is very goodScott_xP said:This will age like fine milk when BoZo copies him in a few days...
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/13160577608245289010 -
He is in a serious negotiation and needs to act accordinglywilliamglenn said:
Which quote from Barnier do you find immature?Big_G_NorthWales said:
How matureScott_xP said:1 -
Ok which businesses will have to shut, did Kier say?Jonathan said:
You’re good at hyperbole. Reason, not so much.NerysHughes said:
To shut every business in England for at least three weeks, and have just teachers working?Jonathan said:So the Tories go into meltdown when someone dares to suggest a way to clear up the latest mess they have allowed to develop.
If they had showed half as much interest and energy in solving the problem we might not have arrived in the shitshow we find ourselves in again.0 -
Not according to Drakeford's withering rebuke of Johnson yesterday and today.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris has no say in my area, the clue is in my nameJonathan said:
I am sure in your world everything is going swimmingly at the moment. Move along, Boris’ plans are working. No need to think at all.Big_G_NorthWales said:
All the leaders in the UK acted together and it was the right thing to do thenJonathan said:
Silly Comment. Boris actually closed the UK.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And if Boris plan succeeds Starmer will forever be the Labour leader who demanded the closure of the whole UK economyGallowgate said:
The play here is that Keir is gambling on Boris having to do this anyway in a couple of weeks, and thus following rather than leading.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Closing down the whole economy on the hope that in three weeks we will have curtailed the virus by 28 days is nonsenseCorrectHorseBattery said:I can see PB Tories are rattled.
I can see the GE posters already
You are turning back into a Boris fanboi, which is a shame.0 -
Everyone *breathe*. There are no right and wrong answers, and at the moment I don't respect either party playing silly political games.
What we do know is that SAGE wanted stronger measures than were announced yesterday, and on a 3 tier scale immediately said "Very High" top tier isn't enough and an "Extremely High" tier would need to be added. So 4 tiers on a 3 tier scale - plus "Low" makes 5 tiers on a 3 tier scale. Plus local twattery where mayors and MPs get the rules fiddled just for them.
This isn't going to work. Politically or Clinically. So scrapping all of that in favour of simplicity makes sense. And that ultimately is why we will end up back in lockdown. Tier 3 will become Tier 4 and sweep across urban areas with people flaunting the chaos.
And at the end of it SKS saying "I told you". Frankly I don't want him to "win" this game. We need consensus. And we can't get it when spineless morons run the government. If we had a PM who took tough unpopular decisions and stood his ground that would be one thing. Instead Shagger has an 80 seat majority built on sand out of playing cards and the wind is blowing.2 -
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There is none. They want to try this and then.... continue it. Lockdown 2rottenborough said:
Where is SAGE's evidence that a 2 or 3 week break will reduce R sufficiently?NerysHughes said:
It is a completely mad ideaBig_G_NorthWales said:
Circuit breaker is closing businesses across the England for 3 weeks at least while Scotland and Wales continue on a tier basisNerysHughes said:
What is a "circuit breaker" lockdown? All businesses to shut? What happens to students at UNI? What happens to public transport? etc etcBig_G_NorthWales said:
Starmer talks as if a circuit breaker will resolve covidcontrarian said:
On the upside, it would bankrupt the country quicker than the tory plan....so.....CorrectHorseBattery said:You wanted a plan. You got a plan.
Over to BoJo
And what happens after three weeks0 -
The experts said the maximum number of deaths from Covid-19 would be around 250,000. It's entirely possible that more people than that could die from the effects of a prolonged lockdown, especially if they're not able to have treatment for conditions like cancer.FF43 said:
You say a strong possibility, but what is that possibility? If the epidemic goes back to the levels we saw in April where there were more than one thousand deaths a day in the UK (which also prevented treatment of other curable diseases), what are the deaths of an even greater magnitude that are triggered only through lockdown?Andy_JS said:
The problem is the strong possibility that more people will die in the long-term from the effects of the lockdown than from Covid-19 itself.CorrectHorseBattery said:The lockdown should be as long as necessary to get the cases down.
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Bozo with a big majority has ended up as weak as Theresa was without one.2
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The NHS app is now full operative and I have used it in cafes and the cinema over the last week, the UK has also tested more per million than every nation on earth bar Israel, Denmark, Luxembourg, Andorra, Iceland and the UAECorrectHorseBattery said:PB Tories will deny it but the only thing that has worked in the UK was a lockdown. The mistake was coming out too quickly without a proper track and trace system. We can only blame Johnson for that.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/1 -
He is acting accordingly. He doesn't write the Guardian's headlines.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is in a serious negotiation and needs to act accordinglywilliamglenn said:
Which quote from Barnier do you find immature?Big_G_NorthWales said:
How matureScott_xP said:2 -
Yes having three deadlines is somewhat immatureBig_G_NorthWales said:
How matureScott_xP said:1 -
Who?dixiedean said:Chris Green resigns over lockdown.
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So are Labour Mayors "complaining like mad" about restrictions or "fully co-operating" with the government?0
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It was a direct quote by SkyStuartinromford said:
Are you referring to this story, based on the Andrew Neill interview? (Google isn't turning up any others.)Big_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
WHO have said to all leaders to stop using lockdowns
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-12/world-health-organization-coronavirus-lockdown-advice/12753688
"The WHO's special envoy on COVID-19 said they should not be used as the primary method of control.
Dr Nabarro made the statements in an interview with The Spectator.
"The only time we believe a lockdown in justified is to buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources; protect your health workers who are exhausted," Dr Nabarro said.
"But by and large, we'd rather not do it."
So, lockdowns are a bad thing, but needed to buy time if things existing measures aren't working and a country needs to reorganise and regroup.
Because if that is the story you're referring to, maybe "WHO have said to all leaders to stop using lockdowns" is a bit of an oversimplification. Integrity of the record and all that.0 -
And supermarket workers and bus/train drivers and hospital workers and care workers and takeaway workers and delivery drivers and warehouse fulfilment workers and everyone working in the food processing supply chain and port/dock workers and airport workers.NerysHughes said:
To shut every business in England for at least three weeks, and have just teachers working?Jonathan said:So the Tories go into meltdown when someone dares to suggest a way to clear up the latest mess they have allowed to develop.
If they had showed half as much interest and energy in solving the problem we might not have arrived in the shitshow we find ourselves in again.
Basically just shitting on the hospitality and non food retail sector because the government hasn't figured out a way to ensure people who test positive are separated from the community.
A two or three week lockdown will achieve the square root of fuck all. I'm actually for it now and for the government to put a 14 or 21 day countdown in place and then shit on Labour and Starmer when it is shown to achieve the square root of fuck all.
The lockdown fascists are back and they are once again sitting comfortably with their office based jobs dictating to the part of the county that doesn't that their livelihoods are expendable.2 -
Unfortunately, and I think it is unfortunate, Starmer is right on the epidemic facts, that doesn't pay any attention to political Left or Right. If we don't take belated and rigorous action now we will see mass death and the economy will be shut down harder. Johnson may be weak and feckless, but he is reasonably intelligent. He knows this.Mortimer said:
LOL. Spoke to a self employed lifetime Labour voter today.CorrectHorseBattery said:Tories are totally rattled, well done Sir Keir
He is appalled at the left's lockdown solution. Applauds the Tory right for accepting that we're going to have to live with this virus, and not shutdown the economy.0 -
That's a career, that is..dixiedean said:
And what's her plan? Other than whinging from her comfortable lodgings.rottenborough said:1 -
MP for Bolton West.Beibheirli_C said:
Who?dixiedean said:Chris Green resigns over lockdown.
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/13160598114280816641 -
Good point, the recovery had been going so well up until Starmer's intervention too.NerysHughes said:
Ok which businesses will have to shut, did Kier say?Jonathan said:
You’re good at hyperbole. Reason, not so much.NerysHughes said:
To shut every business in England for at least three weeks, and have just teachers working?Jonathan said:So the Tories go into meltdown when someone dares to suggest a way to clear up the latest mess they have allowed to develop.
If they had showed half as much interest and energy in solving the problem we might not have arrived in the shitshow we find ourselves in again.0 -
I thought her name was Carrie?Gallowgate said:
Maybe he's in Italy?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1316058102731608068
Perhaps they need FTTH. What happened to that?
Or had he moved on already?0 -
That's basically what Imperial College said right back at the beginning; the adaptive triggering of supression measures (lockdown) in reponse to rising and falling ICU admission rates.FrancisUrquhart said:
I actually don't think it is. It kills business, and it gives the public false hope. The reality is if we go down the circuit breaker route, we will more than likely end up doing 2 weeks on, 2 week off for months.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Two weeks is better than nothing - I would support longer personally.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's what I mean. SAGE proposed a 2 week circuit breaker, he is going to say we should do that. I presume he will also attack the government for sending kids back to uni, etc.CorrectHorseBattery said:
No he's calling for a two week circuit breaker lockdown.FrancisUrquhart said:The way the media were hyping this Starmer announcement up, it was like he was going to call for something truly radical. Instead he is clearly just going to attack the government and say we should follow SAGE.
However, its pie in the sky if you think 2 week lockdown will solve the problem, it just bumps it down the road a little bit.0 -
In a strange sense, managing this kind of situation without a majority might be easier because he wouldn't be so exposed to a divergence between his own party and the mainstream consensus.IanB2 said:Bozo with a big majority has ended up as weak as Theresa was without one.
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How many alerts leading to concrete actions to stem the spread of the virus has it achieved?HYUFD said:
The NHS app is now full operative and I have used it in cafes and the cinema over the last week, the UK has also tested more per million than every nation on earth bar Israel, Denmark, Luxembourg, Andorra, Iceland and the UAECorrectHorseBattery said:PB Tories will deny it but the only thing that has worked in the UK was a lockdown. The mistake was coming out too quickly without a proper track and trace system. We can only blame Johnson for that.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/0 -
Thank youAndy_JS said:
MP for Bolton West.Beibheirli_C said:
Who?dixiedean said:Chris Green resigns over lockdown.
twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1316059811428081664
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The political reason behind my feeling that Starmer has made a rare error of commission here (his last one was the BLM kneel, IMO - he tends to make more errors of ommision) is that down in the South we are in a pretty good position right now. The idea of a two week nationwide circuit breaker, with associated magic money tree costs, in Torridge, for example, would be crackers. Similar in small midland towns, presumably.RochdalePioneers said:Everyone *breathe*. There are no right and wrong answers, and at the moment I don't respect either party playing silly political games.
What we do know is that SAGE wanted stronger measures than were announced yesterday, and on a 3 tier scale immediately said "Very High" top tier isn't enough and an "Extremely High" tier would need to be added. So 4 tiers on a 3 tier scale - plus "Low" makes 5 tiers on a 3 tier scale. Plus local twattery where mayors and MPs get the rules fiddled just for them.
This isn't going to work. Politically or Clinically. So scrapping all of that in favour of simplicity makes sense. And that ultimately is why we will end up back in lockdown. Tier 3 will become Tier 4 and sweep across urban areas with people flaunting the chaos.
And at the end of it SKS saying "I told you". Frankly I don't want him to "win" this game. We need consensus. And we can't get it when spineless morons run the government. If we had a PM who took tough unpopular decisions and stood his ground that would be one thing. Instead Shagger has an 80 seat majority built on sand out of playing cards and the wind is blowing.
These are the sort of places where Labour need to gain ground OR they need the Lib Dems to gain ground. Instead, they're sending voters to the (relatively) sound money economics of the Conservatives yet again.1 -
I am defending a policy that tries to steer a course between health and wealthMexicanpete said:
Not according to Drakeford's withering rebuke of Johnson yesterday and today.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris has no say in my area, the clue is in my nameJonathan said:
I am sure in your world everything is going swimmingly at the moment. Move along, Boris’ plans are working. No need to think at all.Big_G_NorthWales said:
All the leaders in the UK acted together and it was the right thing to do thenJonathan said:
Silly Comment. Boris actually closed the UK.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And if Boris plan succeeds Starmer will forever be the Labour leader who demanded the closure of the whole UK economyGallowgate said:
The play here is that Keir is gambling on Boris having to do this anyway in a couple of weeks, and thus following rather than leading.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Closing down the whole economy on the hope that in three weeks we will have curtailed the virus by 28 days is nonsenseCorrectHorseBattery said:I can see PB Tories are rattled.
I can see the GE posters already
You are turning back into a Boris fanboi, which is a shame.
My opinion on Boris has not changed0 -
Plenty, you are alerted if anyone is isolating with symptoms who was in a public location you were at the same timeIanB2 said:
How many alerts leading to concrete actions to stem the spread of the virus has it achieved?HYUFD said:
The NHS app is now full operative and I have used it in cafes and the cinema over the last week, the UK has also tested more per million than every nation on earth bar Israel, Denmark, Luxembourg, Andorra, Iceland and the UAECorrectHorseBattery said:PB Tories will deny it but the only thing that has worked in the UK was a lockdown. The mistake was coming out too quickly without a proper track and trace system. We can only blame Johnson for that.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/0 -
Well indeed. He's the MP for Bolton West. Who campaigned for Bolton to be excluded from the GM restrictions. Strongly implied it was all Asians. Then saw cases rocket. Not just amongst Asians. Now thinks restrictions don't work.Beibheirli_C said:
Who?dixiedean said:Chris Green resigns over lockdown.
Fails to explain what does.0 -
Although to be fair I think the Tory ones might be prepared to compromise on the 'horribly' bit.ydoethur said:
My understanding is Labour mayors are bloody furious and suing, and Tory ones are complaining like mad and asking for Cummings to die horribly.dixiedean said:So are Labour Mayors "complaining like mad" about restrictions or "fully co-operating" with the government?
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So, how many?HYUFD said:
Plenty, you are alerted if anyone is isolating with symptoms who was in a public location you were at the same timeIanB2 said:
How many alerts leading to concrete actions to stem the spread of the virus has it achieved?HYUFD said:
The NHS app is now full operative and I have used it in cafes and the cinema over the last week, the UK has also tested more per million than every nation on earth bar Israel, Denmark, Luxembourg, Andorra, Iceland and the UAECorrectHorseBattery said:PB Tories will deny it but the only thing that has worked in the UK was a lockdown. The mistake was coming out too quickly without a proper track and trace system. We can only blame Johnson for that.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/0 -
Who could have guessed starting with one arm tied behind your back (in terms of the bluetooth tech) was going to make this at best incredibly difficult. But nobody will agree to a South Korean style system in the West.Andy_JS said:1 -
You do realise that we need to have much higher usage of the app in order for it to be useful? Do we have official numbers on how many million active users it has?HYUFD said:
Plenty, you are alerted if anyone is isolating with symptoms who was in a public location you were at the same timeIanB2 said:
How many alerts leading to concrete actions to stem the spread of the virus has it achieved?HYUFD said:
The NHS app is now full operative and I have used it in cafes and the cinema over the last week, the UK has also tested more per million than every nation on earth bar Israel, Denmark, Luxembourg, Andorra, Iceland and the UAECorrectHorseBattery said:PB Tories will deny it but the only thing that has worked in the UK was a lockdown. The mistake was coming out too quickly without a proper track and trace system. We can only blame Johnson for that.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/0 -
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They’ll settle for him dying slowly instead of horribly as long as he goes quickly?Richard_Nabavi said:
Although to be fair I think the Tory ones might be prepared to compromise on the 'horribly' bit.ydoethur said:
My understanding is Labour mayors are bloody furious and suing, and Tory ones are complaining like mad and asking for Cummings to die horribly.dixiedean said:So are Labour Mayors "complaining like mad" about restrictions or "fully co-operating" with the government?
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Nationwide lockdown (however short, and 2 weeks wouldn't be enough IMO) is a nonsense when large parts of the country have almost no cases....FF43 said:
Unfortunately, and I think it is unfortunate, Starmer is right on the epidemic facts, that doesn't pay any attention to political Left or Right. If we don't take belated and rigorous action now we will see mass death and the economy will be shut down harder. Johnson may be weak and feckless, but he is reasonably intelligent. He knows this.Mortimer said:
LOL. Spoke to a self employed lifetime Labour voter today.CorrectHorseBattery said:Tories are totally rattled, well done Sir Keir
He is appalled at the left's lockdown solution. Applauds the Tory right for accepting that we're going to have to live with this virus, and not shutdown the economy.1 -
Any government would have struggled to deal with this crisis, and probably would have made the same mistakes.4
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Wasn't that Craig Whittaker?dixiedean said:
Well indeed. He's the MP for Bolton West. Who campaigned for Bolton to be excluded from the GM restrictions. Strongly implied it was all Asians. Then saw cases rocket. Not just amongst Asians. Now thinks restrictions don't work.Beibheirli_C said:
Who?dixiedean said:Chris Green resigns over lockdown.
Fails to explain what does.0 -
The "2 week circuit breaker proper lockdown" thing has been doing the rounds in Scotland for a good few weeks, never entirely denied by the Scottish Government and discussion of it has leaked at certain moments.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And why has Nicola Sturgeon not implemented itrottenborough said:
Where is SAGE's evidence that a 2 or 3 week break will reduce R sufficiently?NerysHughes said:
It is a completely mad ideaBig_G_NorthWales said:
Circuit breaker is closing businesses across the England for 3 weeks at least while Scotland and Wales continue on a tier basisNerysHughes said:
What is a "circuit breaker" lockdown? All businesses to shut? What happens to students at UNI? What happens to public transport? etc etcBig_G_NorthWales said:
Starmer talks as if a circuit breaker will resolve covidcontrarian said:
On the upside, it would bankrupt the country quicker than the tory plan....so.....CorrectHorseBattery said:You wanted a plan. You got a plan.
Over to BoJo
And what happens after three weeks
My guess is Sturgeon wanted to do it when SAGE suggested it, but without Boris immediately doing the same for England she couldn't do it purely from the financial side of e.g. furlough or whatever the replacement is/was. So the semi sort of partial shutdown depending on your alcohol license, which didn't really make much sense, was the result. The arguments were all simultaneously "we need to shut places down so people can't congregate, we need to keep places open so lonely people can meet, and we need to balance the effect on the economy". Hence a bit of a hodge-podge of everything.
If the tier stuff had come earlier, with the additional clarity from HMG over what support there is in situations where businesses are being told to close, then the circuit breaker may have already happened.
But either way I think we can safely assume it is coming, it's just a matter of when.0 -
Moved on? I can already hear the sombre notes of a violin.ydoethur said:
I thought her name was Carrie?Gallowgate said:
Maybe he's in Italy?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1316058102731608068
Perhaps they need FTTH. What happened to that?
Or had he moved on already?1
