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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump’s describes as “fake news” his WH2016 comments that John McCain was not a hero because he was captured
..Country, had to be approved by me, as President, & I did so without hesitation or complaint. Quite the contrary, I felt it was well deserved. I even sent Air Force One to bring his body, in casket, from Arizona to Washington. It was my honor to do so. Also, I never called..
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Comments
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First like Biden.
I hope.2 -
Trump’s a liar, who knew?
Perhaps he’s got dementia like people say Biden has when Biden makes an apparent faux pas.0 -
A debate could be very akin to two residents in an old people's home accusing one another of cheating at dominoes.6
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Trump being defensive. That's something to see. Usually he doubles down on his outrageous statements.0
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I wonder if that military poll has him worried?Richard_Nabavi said:Trump being defensive. That's something to see. Usually he doubles down on his outrageous statements.
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That was before the latest brouhaha, wasn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
I wonder if that military poll has him worried?Richard_Nabavi said:Trump being defensive. That's something to see. Usually he doubles down on his outrageous statements.
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FPT
Even were the UK fishermen to be locked out of exports (they won't and can't be, but that's another matter) the fishermen will still gain from extra stock and will be able to sell to the UK.FF43 said:
Problem with this announcement is that it certainly won't happen. If there is a deal, this doubling of UK fish catches is the UK opening gambit that will be whittled down by the EU to a much smaller increase.contrarian said:
Why has it sparked fury?HYUFD said:
According to remainers, fish are inconsequential. Nobody cares. Its a red herring. ha ha ha.
Or there won't be a deal with the consequences of UK fisherman being locked out of the market that represents 70% of their catch. As the Covid catastrophe for fishermen has shown, this market isn't easily replaceable.
Currently the UK is catching 9% of the cod in the UK's Channel waters. France catches 66% of it and exports it to the UK. The UK eats a heck of a lot of cod.
Why on earth do you think UK fishermen would be incapable of catching cod in UK waters and selling it to the UK if the EU tried to lock them out?
Having a product that people want to buy and people able to buy it is better than being able to sell a product but not having anything to sell.1 -
It was.Richard_Nabavi said:
That was before the latest brouhaha, wasn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
I wonder if that military poll has him worried?Richard_Nabavi said:Trump being defensive. That's something to see. Usually he doubles down on his outrageous statements.
There are some speculating that the October surprise will be one of John Kelly or James Mattie confirming the overnight stories/backing Biden.0 -
French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.1 -
Trump we know is telling a few porkies here, he was not only not his greatest fan, he and McCain despised each other, hence Cindy McCain spoke at Biden's convention last month.
However the McCain Republican vote in 2008 is not the same as the Trump Republican vote in 2016, a few establishment McCain voting Republicans even voted for Hillary last time while plenty of Trump voters in 2016 did not vote for McCain in the Republican primaries in 2008 or even voted for Obama in the general or stayed home.
Remember too in the Republican primaries in 2000 McCain was also the media and liberals candidate over George W Bush0 -
Trump can and does get away with racism and misogyny, but most Republicans will draw the line at disrespecting the military. Trump may yet get away with it if there are no recordings or people willing to go on the record, but if there are this could be very bad for him.Richard_Nabavi said:Trump being defensive. That's something to see. Usually he doubles down on his outrageous statements.
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Military do a lot of postal voting, lots of bases in North Carolina, ballots going out today.0
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Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.0 -
Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=210 -
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.0 -
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.1 -
LOL, brilliant.Morris_Dancer said:A debate could be very akin to two residents in an old people's home accusing one another of cheating at dominoes.
1 -
Michel Barnier REALLY cares about fishing.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.3 -
Trump doesnt care about being caught in an obvious lie, clearly, and usually the voters backing him dont care either. But that he isnt sticking to his guns is notable - as Richard nabavi suggests its not his usual MO.0
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OT Firefox search seems broken, and not just on this site. I shall look into what I've done wrong after lunch -- Friday so it is (probably imported) cod and chips.0
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It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.0 -
I must have missed something - I thought the modern idea was that you can self-identify to be whoever you want to be, and that was incontestable by mere facts?TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=219 -
And the polling suggests that Trump is 4% behind amongst servicemen and womenedmundintokyo said:Military do a lot of postal voting, lots of bases in North Carolina, ballots going out today.
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Firefox did an upgrade that was more of a downgrade.DecrepiterJohnL said:OT Firefox search seems broken, and not just on this site. I shall look into what I've done wrong after lunch -- Friday so it is (probably imported) cod and chips.
Is it related to that?0 -
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?0 -
People have said Trump may have dementia before, yes.TheScreamingEagles said:Trump’s a liar, who knew?
Perhaps he’s got dementia like people say Biden has when Biden makes an apparent faux pas.0 -
The notion of a US president referring to American servicemen captured or killed whilst serving as "losers" would normally be so ridiculous that in the absence of clear and direct evidence one would reject it out of hand.Richard_Nabavi said:Trump being defensive. That's something to see. Usually he doubles down on his outrageous statements.
With Donald Trump, because of his known character, this is reversed. In the absence of clear and direct evidence that he did not say it the perfectly reasonable conclusion is that he did.
This is the level he has brought us all to, I'm afraid.2 -
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.0 -
Rachel Dolezal MkII.TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
ttps://twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=210 -
Well I’ve tried to self identify as working class but it hasn’t worked.Richard_Nabavi said:
I must have missed something - I thought the modern idea was that you can self-identify to be whoever you want to be, and that was incontestable by mere facts?TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=210 -
Transracialism is probably the next big thing, but we dont seem there yet. We're in hyper race awareness mode at presentRichard_Nabavi said:
I must have missed something - I thought the modern idea was that you can self-identify to be whoever you want to be, and that was incontestable by mere facts?TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=210 -
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/464015581 -
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.0 -
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.0 -
I thought we were already there with the Metropolitan Black Police Association and a BAME group in the Labour Party, in the vanguard of progress as usual. And in the census or any of those stupid government forms which ask you about your ethnicity, of course.kle4 said:
Transracialism is probably the next big thing, but we dont seem there yet. We're in hyper race awareness mode at presentRichard_Nabavi said:
I must have missed something - I thought the modern idea was that you can self-identify to be whoever you want to be, and that was incontestable by mere facts?TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=210 -
Must have been the shoes which stymied you.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well I’ve tried to self identify as working class but it hasn’t worked.Richard_Nabavi said:
I must have missed something - I thought the modern idea was that you can self-identify to be whoever you want to be, and that was incontestable by mere facts?TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=210 -
And then for everyone on active service, the proud parents, grandparents, spouses and cousins...MikeSmithson said:
And the polling suggests that Trump is 4% behind amongst servicemen and womenedmundintokyo said:Military do a lot of postal voting, lots of bases in North Carolina, ballots going out today.
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Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.0 -
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.1 -
It depends on which fishermen. Some would benefit from No Deal; more wouldn't. Starting with processed fish, which employs more people than caught fish. They have no catch to protect so there is no upside there; only downside to not being able to sell into their main market. Next shellfish. This is a more valuable product than deep sea fish and mostly caught by UK fishermen in local waters. They couldn't boost their catch enough to compensate for the loss of their main market. Sea fish - overall they might benefit from No Deal but it depends on the species of fishPhilip_Thompson said:Even were the UK fishermen to be locked out of exports (they won't and can't be, but that's another matter) the fishermen will still gain from extra stock and will be able to sell to the UK.
Currently the UK is catching 9% of the cod in the UK's Channel waters. France catches 66% of it and exports it to the UK. The UK eats a heck of a lot of cod.
Why on earth do you think UK fishermen would be incapable of catching cod in UK waters and selling it to the UK if the EU tried to lock them out?
Having a product that people want to buy and people able to buy it is better than being able to sell a product but not having anything to sell.
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Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.0 -
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.0 -
That's Trumpster propaganda that Biden has dementia. He comes across as a 77 year old man who is not as sharp or robust as he used to be. Dementia is something quite different.TheScreamingEagles said:Trump’s a liar, who knew?
Perhaps he’s got dementia like people say Biden has when Biden makes an apparent faux pas.0 -
The October Surprise is that there is a government shutdown going ot happen in October.TheScreamingEagles said:
It was.Richard_Nabavi said:
That was before the latest brouhaha, wasn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
I wonder if that military poll has him worried?Richard_Nabavi said:Trump being defensive. That's something to see. Usually he doubles down on his outrageous statements.
There are some speculating that the October surprise will be one of John Kelly or James Mattie confirming the overnight stories/backing Biden.1 -
So do Americans prefer Trump, who allegedly makes a silly unguarded comment about the military but has avoided overseas expeditions as president.
Or do they prefer Biden, who says how proud he is of the military, while overseeing as VP thousands of coffins returning to the US from abroad?
I say the above only slightly tongue in cheek. One of Trump’s few achievements is to get out of the foreign wars.2 -
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.0 -
The trick is to compare yourself to someone super posh who claims to be middle class. Charles?TheScreamingEagles said:
Well I’ve tried to self identify as working class but it hasn’t worked.Richard_Nabavi said:
I must have missed something - I thought the modern idea was that you can self-identify to be whoever you want to be, and that was incontestable by mere facts?TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=210 -
Anyone who wants to do some state betting on NC should read http://www.oldnorthstatepolitics.com/edmundintokyo said:Military do a lot of postal voting, lots of bases in North Carolina, ballots going out today.
2 -
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.0 -
538 has North Carolina on a knife edge and Biden's final state that he takes (51% chance).Alistair said:
Anyone who wants to do some state betting on NC should read http://www.oldnorthstatepolitics.com/edmundintokyo said:Military do a lot of postal voting, lots of bases in North Carolina, ballots going out today.
0 -
And yet some people get mad if you have a hairstyle not approved for your race, so I doubt they approve of people deciding they feel like a different race than they were classified at birth.Richard_Nabavi said:
I thought we were already there with the Metropolitan Black Police Association and a BAME group in the Labour Party, in the vanguard of progress as usual. And in the census or any of those stupid government forms which ask you about your ethnicity, of course.kle4 said:
Transracialism is probably the next big thing, but we dont seem there yet. We're in hyper race awareness mode at presentRichard_Nabavi said:
I must have missed something - I thought the modern idea was that you can self-identify to be whoever you want to be, and that was incontestable by mere facts?TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=21
Race really is a stupid human invention, but it's hard to break out of it.2 -
All started with Elvis. But at least he was open about it.TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=210 -
Yes I agree.kle4 said:
And yet some people get mad if you have a hairstyle not approved for your race, so I doubt they approve of people deciding they feel like a different race than they were classified at birth.Richard_Nabavi said:
I thought we were already there with the Metropolitan Black Police Association and a BAME group in the Labour Party, in the vanguard of progress as usual. And in the census or any of those stupid government forms which ask you about your ethnicity, of course.kle4 said:
Transracialism is probably the next big thing, but we dont seem there yet. We're in hyper race awareness mode at presentRichard_Nabavi said:
I must have missed something - I thought the modern idea was that you can self-identify to be whoever you want to be, and that was incontestable by mere facts?TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=21
Race really is a stupid human invention, but it's hard to break out of it.0 -
If the choice is between screwing over a minority or getting a deal, I choose no deal.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.0 -
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.1 -
Your last sentence is a hope, and an opinion, not a fact. We will see.Philip_Thompson said:
If the choice is between screwing over a minority or getting a deal, I choose no deal.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.
When push comes to shove, the majority of people will not choose to trade their existing jobs and livelihood so that Michael Gove can get on board a fishing boat wearing a yellow coat in the North Sea and wave the Union Jack.1 -
Playing into Trump's hands ?
0 -
All of that may be true, but if the EU essentially banned their people from buying it, do you think they'd say "oh well, it's all for a greater good."Richard_Nabavi said:
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.0 -
Bit more than "silly", such a comment. The fact you describe it so lightly - and that I know many others would too - illustrates what 4 years of Trump in the White House has done to standards and expectations. This, above all else, is his legacy. And even as a one term president it will be a lasting one.Sandpit said:So do Americans prefer Trump, who allegedly makes a silly unguarded comment about the military but has avoided overseas expeditions as president.
Or do they prefer Biden, who says how proud he is of the military, while overseeing as VP thousands of coffins returning to the US from abroad?
I say the above only slightly tongue in cheek. One of Trump’s few achievements is to get out of the foreign wars.1 -
The UK doesn't eat much fish? I must be confused when I thought fish and chips was one of the country's most popular dishes. Plus the UK is actually a net importer of seafood!Richard_Nabavi said:
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.
We have a balance of trade deficit on seafood which is insane given our coastal island status. Given we are a coastal island with major stocks of seafood as a natural resource why do we have a balance of trade deficit on seafood, that is madness. But it is less insane when you realise that we only get one quarter of our stocks.
Plus a significant chunk of our exports already go to outside the EU27 anyway and some of what is exported to the EU27 is frozen anyway.
Getting 4x the stocks would be profitable even if at a lower margin.1 -
This won't be popular.
"The UK is preparing to build lorry parks in up to 29 parts of the UK in order to deal with the additional checks required after Brexit.
Boris Johnson's government on Thursday changed the law to give itself the authority to grant emergency planning permission for "temporary" lorry parks across the country, Bloomberg reported."
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-boris-johnson-uk-lorry-parks-chaos-checks-2020-9?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+businessinsider+(Business+Insider)&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view&r=US&IR=T0 -
No, I think they would blame the UK in general and Boris Johnson in particular.tlg86 said:
All of that may be true, but if the EU essentially banned their people from buying it, do you think they'd say "oh well, it's all for a greater good."Richard_Nabavi said:
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.0 -
There's a misty eyed myth about our brave fishermen challenging the seas to provide us with our staple Friday diet.Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
Of course they are brave; nasty, dangerous job. But in reality it's a tiny proportion of our GDP.
0 -
When push came to shove, they already did.Gallowgate said:
Your last sentence is a hope, and an opinion, not a fact. We will see.Philip_Thompson said:
If the choice is between screwing over a minority or getting a deal, I choose no deal.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.
When push comes to shove, the majority of people will not choose to trade their existing jobs and livelihood so that Michael Gove can get on board a fishing boat wearing a yellow coat in the North Sea and wave the Union Jack.0 -
It makes 2020-to-2016 analysis impossible. When you looked at the graphs for 2016-vs-2012 it was a clear after an initial surge that the Dem registered vote was not performing as well in early voting as it had done previously.Pulpstar said:Playing into Trump's hands ?
This year, how the fuck can you tell how well it is performing!0 -
-
Interestingly*, it says "supply" but the UK looks like it consumes 20kg/person of fish per year.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fish-and-seafood-consumption-per-capita?tab=table
The UK is way, way, way on down the table.
*to a tiny, tiny minority who should get to dictate the terms of our trade agreement with the EU, obvs.0 -
Funny how Mr Nabavi seems to think the EU consumers aren't going to object to empty shelves when suddenly billions of pounds of seafood goes missing from their shelves in his scenario.tlg86 said:
All of that may be true, but if the EU essentially banned their people from buying it, do you think they'd say "oh well, it's all for a greater good."Richard_Nabavi said:
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.
There is only one party that will lose out if the UK gets 100% of our waters - and it is not the UK.0 -
They have not. Nothing has happened yet, nothing has changed.Philip_Thompson said:
When push came to shove, they already did.Gallowgate said:
Your last sentence is a hope, and an opinion, not a fact. We will see.Philip_Thompson said:
If the choice is between screwing over a minority or getting a deal, I choose no deal.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.
When push comes to shove, the majority of people will not choose to trade their existing jobs and livelihood so that Michael Gove can get on board a fishing boat wearing a yellow coat in the North Sea and wave the Union Jack.
When things actually start to change, we’ll see if people are happy with our new reality.0 -
LOL!!!Philip_Thompson said:
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
You I presume have been in the UK these past few months. Can you really make such a claim so blithely?!
DFG!1 -
Yet despite being a coastal island with one of the biggest stocks of seafood in Europe, we are a net importer of seafood.TOPPING said:
Interestingly*, it says "supply" but the UK looks like it consumes 20kg/person of fish per year.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fish-and-seafood-consumption-per-capita?tab=table
The UK is way, way, way on down the table.
*to a tiny, tiny minority who should get to dictate the terms of our trade agreement with the EU, obvs.
So apparently if we don't have a trade deal then supposed British fishermen will have access to 4x the catch but go bust as a result and EU consumers will lose billions of pounds of catch from their shelves and plates but not object. Wut?0 -
I don’t dispute that at all. I know we have that misty eyed myth. But when push actually comes to the shove, people are not going to cheer on the “success of the fishing industry” if their jobs go, or their shopping gets more expensive or less varied.OldKingCole said:
There's a misty eyed myth about our brave fishermen challenging the seas to provide us with our staple Friday diet.Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
Of course they are brave; nasty, dangerous job. But in reality it's a tiny proportion of our GDP.0 -
Hopefully no remainers on here will be dumb enough to sympathize with them.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, I think they would blame the UK in general and Boris Johnson in particular.tlg86 said:
All of that may be true, but if the EU essentially banned their people from buying it, do you think they'd say "oh well, it's all for a greater good."Richard_Nabavi said:
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.0 -
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fish-and-seafood-consumption-per-capita?tab=tablePhilip_Thompson said:
The UK doesn't eat much fish? I must be confused when I thought fish and chips was one of the country's most popular dishes. Plus the UK is actually a net importer of seafood!Richard_Nabavi said:
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.
We have a balance of trade deficit on seafood which is insane given our coastal island status. Given we are a coastal island with major stocks of seafood as a natural resource why do we have a balance of trade deficit on seafood, that is madness. But it is less insane when you realise that we only get one quarter of our stocks.
Plus a significant chunk of our exports already go to outside the EU27 anyway and some of what is exported to the EU27 is frozen anyway.
Getting 4x the stocks would be profitable even if at a lower margin.
We don't eat much fish. You walking past a queue at your local chippie notwithstanding.0 -
Yes. We just went through a global pandemic that disrupted supply chains far more than Brexit ever could, with far more panic buying than could ever be seen - and the supermarkets coped throughout.TOPPING said:
LOL!!!Philip_Thompson said:
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
You I presume have been in the UK these past few months. Can you really make such a claim so blithely?!
DFG!
We've just been through a major stress test and came through it intact.1 -
It is good to see you acknowledge that jobs and livelihoods will be lost with Brexit.Philip_Thompson said:
When push came to shove, they already did.Gallowgate said:
Your last sentence is a hope, and an opinion, not a fact. We will see.Philip_Thompson said:
If the choice is between screwing over a minority or getting a deal, I choose no deal.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.
When push comes to shove, the majority of people will not choose to trade their existing jobs and livelihood so that Michael Gove can get on board a fishing boat wearing a yellow coat in the North Sea and wave the Union Jack.
And I'm loving the serves them bloody well right tone to your post.0 -
@Philip_Thompson I doubt the EU cares very much in the grand scheme of things if British fish gets more expensive.
They do know that for some reason the Government is obsessed with it though, and thus they are using it for leverage.0 -
Brexit itself involves screwing over countless minorities (eg the 48% who didn't want to leave). A no deal Brexit would screw over many minorities. A deal will screw over some different minorities. The art of government is choosing, not simply prioritising one minority arbitrarily and refusing to countenance any arrangement that does not privilege them to the detriment of everyone else. What about hauliers? People who export to the EU? People who hope to retire to the EU? The airline industry? The financial sector?Philip_Thompson said:
If the choice is between screwing over a minority or getting a deal, I choose no deal.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.0 -
You can do the following thought experiment..Alistair said:
It makes 2020-to-2016 analysis impossible. When you looked at the graphs for 2016-vs-2012 it was a clear after an initial surge that the Dem registered vote was not performing as well in early voting as it had done previously.Pulpstar said:Playing into Trump's hands ?
This year, how the fuck can you tell how well it is performing!
Would you be happier as (I presume you're a Biden backer/supporter) seeing Dem registrations at 58k whilst GOP is over 200 ?0 -
Err, the EU won't have empty shelves. It could have shortages of some specific seafood items, but that's it. The EU imports very little food from the UK, whereas around 30% of food we eat comes from the EU. Any disruption from the expected chaos at Dover is going to hit us very badly indeed.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how Mr Nabavi seems to think the EU consumers aren't going to object to empty shelves when suddenly billions of pounds of seafood goes missing from their shelves in his scenario.
There is only one party that will lose out if the UK gets 100% of our waters - and it is not the UK.0 -
Oh!Pulpstar said:Playing into Trump's hands ?
0 -
That isn't the choice, though. The choice is between the interests of different groups.Philip_Thompson said:
If the choice is between screwing over a minority or getting a deal, I choose no deal.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.
Now I accept deep sea fishermen would win from a No Deal. They can catch considerably more fish and be able to sell enough of it even with EU tariffs to come out ahead.
Deep sea fishermen are a minority albeit a high profile one within the UK fishing industry. The rest of the industry loses out if there is No Deal. You would be compromising their interest for those of Deep Sea fishermen. Which is a reasonable thing to do but that is the choice you are making.
If there is No Deal that has negative consequences for almost everyone else outside fishing. You would be compromising the interest of the vast majority for that of a tiny minority. Again you can choose to do this, but I suggest it is getting increasingly difficult to justify.0 -
Thing that struck me looking at that clip is that he's aged rather more dramatically than Biden.Richard_Nabavi said:Trump being defensive. That's something to see. Usually he doubles down on his outrageous statements.
0 -
https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2019/04/10/trade-insights-more-than-70-of-uk-seafood-exports-go-to-eu/TOPPING said:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fish-and-seafood-consumption-per-capita?tab=tablePhilip_Thompson said:
The UK doesn't eat much fish? I must be confused when I thought fish and chips was one of the country's most popular dishes. Plus the UK is actually a net importer of seafood!Richard_Nabavi said:
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.
We have a balance of trade deficit on seafood which is insane given our coastal island status. Given we are a coastal island with major stocks of seafood as a natural resource why do we have a balance of trade deficit on seafood, that is madness. But it is less insane when you realise that we only get one quarter of our stocks.
Plus a significant chunk of our exports already go to outside the EU27 anyway and some of what is exported to the EU27 is frozen anyway.
Getting 4x the stocks would be profitable even if at a lower margin.
We don't eat much fish. You walking past a queue at your local chippie notwithstanding.
2018 the UK imported £3.28 billion in seafood and exported £1.87 billion. A trade deficit of £1.41 billion pounds.
Despite the fact we're an island nation with 4x the stocks than we are currently catching.2 -
If it comes to it people won't have that choice. The choice they will have is who to blame.Gallowgate said:
Your last sentence is a hope, and an opinion, not a fact. We will see.Philip_Thompson said:
If the choice is between screwing over a minority or getting a deal, I choose no deal.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.
When push comes to shove, the majority of people will not choose to trade their existing jobs and livelihood so that Michael Gove can get on board a fishing boat wearing a yellow coat in the North Sea and wave the Union Jack.
I predict a majority of Leavers will blame the EU and a majority of Remainers will blame Johnson.0 -
Finally you accept that in the midst of a global pandemic (you haven't scheduled it to end by Jan 2021 have you?) is not the time to Brexit.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes. We just went through a global pandemic that disrupted supply chains far more than Brexit ever could, with far more panic buying than could ever be seen - and the supermarkets coped throughout.TOPPING said:
LOL!!!Philip_Thompson said:
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
You I presume have been in the UK these past few months. Can you really make such a claim so blithely?!
DFG!
We've just been through a major stress test and came through it intact.
Because we had empty shelves in supermarkets during the global pandemic and you are now seeking to add chaos via new rules on trade which are likely to empty those shelves again.
Again. The shelves were empty as recently as a few months ago. Empty.0 -
Are we classified racially at birth? There's no race on my birth cert.kle4 said:
And yet some people get mad if you have a hairstyle not approved for your race, so I doubt they approve of people deciding they feel like a different race than they were classified at birth.Richard_Nabavi said:
I thought we were already there with the Metropolitan Black Police Association and a BAME group in the Labour Party, in the vanguard of progress as usual. And in the census or any of those stupid government forms which ask you about your ethnicity, of course.kle4 said:
Transracialism is probably the next big thing, but we dont seem there yet. We're in hyper race awareness mode at presentRichard_Nabavi said:
I must have missed something - I thought the modern idea was that you can self-identify to be whoever you want to be, and that was incontestable by mere facts?TheScreamingEagles said:Disgusting.
This white Jewish woman has been stealing opportunities from black women.
twitter.com/skynews/status/1301803613417865216?s=210 -
@Philip_Thompson assures us that there will be no negative consequences whatsoever to having no trade deal with the EU. Great. We’ll probably find out very soon.
But he also says that even if there are negative consequences, people won’t care because independent fishing policy, or something.
Consider me sceptical.0 -
The thing is though, say we end up with sole (he he) rights to fish our waters - what then? The French, Spanish etc will carry on fishing in our waters as before even though it is against the rules. Will brexiters demand that this is enforced? How? What follows?Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.0 -
Err no because the 75% of UK stocks that are currently caught by EU fishermen are not classed as a UK export.Richard_Nabavi said:
Err, the EU won't have empty shelves. It could have shortages of some specific seafood items, but that's it. The EU imports very little food from the UK, whereas around 30% of food we eat comes from the EU. Any disruption from the expected chaos at Dover is going to hit us very badly indeed.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how Mr Nabavi seems to think the EU consumers aren't going to object to empty shelves when suddenly billions of pounds of seafood goes missing from their shelves in his scenario.
There is only one party that will lose out if the UK gets 100% of our waters - and it is not the UK.
The EU imports £1.11 billion of seafood from us . . . but that is only from what we catch ourselves. On top of that they also get 75% of the catch from UK waters.
If that vanishes overnight then what do you think is going to replace it?0 -
Of course. Just like Iceland enforces it in their waters. That is what the navy is for.Stocky said:
The thing is though, say we end up with sole (he he) rights to fish our waters - what then? The French, Spanish etc will carry on fishing in our waters as before even though it is against the rules. Will brexiters demand that this is enforced? How? What follows?Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.4 -
You may be right. Keir’s big test will be whether he can control the narrative.LostPassword said:
If it comes to it people won't have that choice. The choice they will have is who to blame.Gallowgate said:
Your last sentence is a hope, and an opinion, not a fact. We will see.Philip_Thompson said:
If the choice is between screwing over a minority or getting a deal, I choose no deal.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.
When push comes to shove, the majority of people will not choose to trade their existing jobs and livelihood so that Michael Gove can get on board a fishing boat wearing a yellow coat in the North Sea and wave the Union Jack.
I predict a majority of Leavers will blame the EU and a majority of Remainers will blame Johnson.0 -
Yes, and it will be worse in the event of no deal. We'll still be importing canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack, and we'll have nowhere to sell the high-end stuff we currently sell fresh to the EU. I really don't get why you can't understand that imported cod and tuna are not the same as exported scallops and herring.Philip_Thompson said:
https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2019/04/10/trade-insights-more-than-70-of-uk-seafood-exports-go-to-eu/TOPPING said:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fish-and-seafood-consumption-per-capita?tab=tablePhilip_Thompson said:
The UK doesn't eat much fish? I must be confused when I thought fish and chips was one of the country's most popular dishes. Plus the UK is actually a net importer of seafood!Richard_Nabavi said:
You are doing a good job explaining why this is a red line for the EU, but you are making the schoolboy error of thinking that 'fish' are interchangeable, UK consumers don't eat much fish, but what they do eat is largely imported and doesn't come from UK or EU waters: canned tuna, tropical prawns, Norwegian/Icelandic cod and Alaskan pollack. Most of the high-value UK catch is exported to the EU. That catch will be worth very little if we don't have a deal which allows it to be landed in EU ports and sold on within hours of catching it. There's no other distribution avenue immediately available.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK only gets 9% of the cod quota in the UK's waters in the Channel, the French get 66% despite it being UK waters.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure where you get those figures from. We export a lot of cod to the EU - see chart here:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes because we're only allowed to catch 9% of cod in our waters.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Mainly the fish we catch is exported and the fish we eat is imported.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
66% of the cod in our own waters are caught by French fishermen who then export them to us.
If there was no deal and the fishermen started catch 100% of cod in our waters when what do you think our fishermen would do with those cod?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-brexit-looms-after-boris-johnson-seeks-to-double-fishing-quota-mwk785bhd
And we will still be able to export fish post-Brexit, any country can. But the UK i despite being a coastal island remarkably a net importer of fish as it stands too.
Doubling or quadrupling our quota is not going to hurt UK fishermen. It is insane to suggest otherwise. Oh and we export to more than just the EU.
We have a balance of trade deficit on seafood which is insane given our coastal island status. Given we are a coastal island with major stocks of seafood as a natural resource why do we have a balance of trade deficit on seafood, that is madness. But it is less insane when you realise that we only get one quarter of our stocks.
Plus a significant chunk of our exports already go to outside the EU27 anyway and some of what is exported to the EU27 is frozen anyway.
Getting 4x the stocks would be profitable even if at a lower margin.
We don't eat much fish. You walking past a queue at your local chippie notwithstanding.
2018 the UK imported £3.28 billion in seafood and exported £1.87 billion. A trade deficit of £1.41 billion pounds.
Despite the fact we're an island nation with 4x the stocks than we are currently catching.0 -
No I do not accept that, that is not what I said.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that in the midst of a global pandemic (you haven't scheduled it to end by Jan 2021 have you?) is not the time to Brexit.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes. We just went through a global pandemic that disrupted supply chains far more than Brexit ever could, with far more panic buying than could ever be seen - and the supermarkets coped throughout.TOPPING said:
LOL!!!Philip_Thompson said:
The country will have full supermarket shelves and cheap consumer goods either way.Gallowgate said:
It’s not a zero sum game. We have a choice. “Fishing”, which affects a tiny, tiny minority of people, and a better chance of a deal.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry Gallowgate but you're just wrong. Many do give a crap and do so passionately.Gallowgate said:
I live in a coastal community. The vast majority don’t give a crap. They really don’t.Philip_Thompson said:
Coastal communities are a tiny, tiny minority?Gallowgate said:
Who cares? They are a tiny, tiny minority.Philip_Thompson said:
So you think the general public in coastal communities don't care about fish?Gallowgate said:
I’m not talking about Barnier. I don’t care about Barnier. I’m talking about the general public.Philip_Thompson said:
If nobody cares why doesn't Barnier concede in this subject?Gallowgate said:
It is. It’s only the frothers in the government and its supporters who really care. The average person on the street does not give two sh*ts.Philip_Thompson said:
That is self-evidently not true.Gallowgate said:
Nobody cares about fishing.Philip_Thompson said:French fishermen catch British fish in British waters and export them to Britain - and the delusional Remainers on here think British fishermen would be devastated by our fishermen no longer being confined to 1/4 of British stocks?
Its laughable.
People care.
Because that's not true either. Many vote quite heavily on this matter.
If you think the vast majority of people would choose “independent fishing”, which will have no impact on them whatsoever, over empty supermarket shelves and increased cost of imported consumer goods then you’re seriously deluded.
Oh ok then. So we should just ignore minority interests is that what you're saying? The voters in coastal communities and the MPs they represent absolutely do care and so they should.
If the 'vast majority' don't get about fishing then they should ignore the subject. Let the people who do care get a say - and the people that do care, care very passionately.
I’m sorry Philip but you’re just wrong.
Even if a majority don't - if they don't give a crap then they're irrelevant. If they don't care then they'll be happy with whatever the people who do care decide. For those that do give a crap, they are the ones that matter.
If you don't care then just move on. Let the people who do care speak up - and there are many of them and they vote.
You guys have an obsession with something that is just not important. On the hierarchy of “what people care about”, people want cheap consumer goods, and they want full supermarket shelves.
The majority will not be willing to trade the hypothetical concept of an “independent fishing policy” for the possible reality of lorries piling up in Dover and causing trade issues.
If you suggest otherwise, you’re deluded. You just are. Go out and speak to people.
You I presume have been in the UK these past few months. Can you really make such a claim so blithely?!
DFG!
We've just been through a major stress test and came through it intact.
Because we had empty shelves in supermarkets during the global pandemic and you are now seeking to add chaos via new rules on trade which are likely to empty those shelves again.
Again. The shelves were empty as recently as a few months ago. Empty.
The shelves were not empty a few months ago. I was able to get stock from the shelves constantly for everything except toilet paper as a unique product. The shelves were never completely empty.
In one week at the peak of it I went to the supermarket and they had no chicken so I bought something else instead. Its called substitution, a well known economic effect. By the next week they had chicken again.0 -
AIUI, much of the fish our lads catch isn't what 'we' like; so it's exported. And, as was pointed out upthread, exporting fish is a matter of ashore > refrigerated lorry> vendor> consumers double-quick time.Gallowgate said:@Philip_Thompson I doubt the EU cares very much in the grand scheme of things if British fish gets more expensive.
They do know that for some reason the Government is obsessed with it though, and thus they are using it for leverage.
Sitting in a ferry off Calais while Monsieur le Douane works his way through the paperwork won't do it a lot of good.0 -
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