politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first of the front pages not good for Boris

Foxy said:

another_richard said:

rottenborough said:

Foxy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

What's the explanation for why we don't know the figure how many people we've tested for like the last month?

The contract with the companies doing testing doesn't seem to include communicating the results to anyone.

Beyond f*ing words. What an utter shambles this lot are proving to be.

https://twitter.com/johnharris1969/status/1278259630628618241

I doubt Boris or Hancock have drawn up the contracts themselves.

What we are seeing is the general unfitness for purpose of the alphabet soup.

I don't think PHE would negotiate a contract that kept themselves in the dark! It is the usual private sector troughers.

You can bet an expensive contract change will fix it.

ydoethur said:

Scott_xP said:

Paging BoZo and Dom...

https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1278513739365572611

And Jenrick. Don’t forget Jenrick.

You mention Jenrick twice. Once for Shropshire and once for Herefordshire trips?

Charles said:

Andy_JS said:

LadyG said:

dixiedean said:

LadyG said:

Nigelb said:

Unexplained mass elephant dying:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53257512

Christ. What a miserable era this is

Indeed. A plague of locusts has ravaged the crops of Sardinia.
When I read that I thought Daily Mash.
Sadly not.

2020 is by far the most depressing year of my life, to date, and I was born in the mid 1960s.

And we are only half way through. Indeed, exactly half way through

Do you have any memory of the 1968/69 flu epidemic? (It killed about 80,000 people in the UK, which would be around 100,000 today taking population increase into account).

I discussed that with my mother last weekend. She was 20 at the time.

Absolutely no memory. The government did nothing - it was just one of those things that happened. No lockdown or anything

Without lockdown I am guessing Covid would have killed a million or more in this country (not necessarily by now, but in total, assuming most people exposed and fatality rate of at least 2% owing to the health system being overwhelmed).

Foxy said:

Andy_JS said:

"Police have pledged to stop and fine drivers trying to flee Leicester for drinking or shopping after the city was put under a fresh lockdown following a spike in Covid-19 cases in the city.

Officers will carry out spot checks on vehicles leaving locked-down Leicester and could turn them around if their journey is not essential, it was revealed today, as confusion reigned because some areas in the city limits are in lockdown while neighbours are not.

Leicestershire Police is also threatening £100 fines amid growing concerns that residents may flee for the county's open pubs, hair salons or other attractions while patrols will also break up mass gatherings in the city after they were partially blamed for a spike in coronavirus cases in June."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8481783/Leaders-councils-threatened-Leicester-style-lockdowns-reject-idea.html

The White Horse in Scraptoft will be busy. It is a large Weatherspoons just outside the boundary, and easy walking distance from the Thurnby Lodge Estate. There may be other similar pubs, but I don't think shops will be very busy outside, and hairdressers need booking weeks ahead. All the main Leicestershire shopping areas are included in the lockdown.

I may report from my local pub on Saturday, but I suspect the landlord won't be be serving non regulars.He is already pulling his hair out over trying to make the regulations work.

My prediction is the big pubs will be very strict with the rules, they are mostly chains and will not want the risk of naming and shaming by the media and legal challenges of negligence.

The small pubs will mostly be OK as the publicans are usually sensible people and want to look after their customers, many of whom are friends.

It is the medium sized pubs who will have the problems keeping control. Keeping 2/3 of the tables free while the staff are being overrun, serving so many people, trying to remember who has put their name on the attendance list etc. And probably some landlords will only care about reducing their overdraft.

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/mirandayaver/status/1278430829568561159

The fascist iconography of Trumpism is hiding in plain sight. If Trump were smarter he would really be dangerous.

Cyclefree said:

tlg86 said:

This still feels pretty thin. No one will care about Leicester (or anywhere else for that matter) when the real economic pain begins to be felt.

What do you mean “when”? It’s already started, as the announcements of job losses over the last couple of days make clear.

It's only a recession when someone you know has lost their job.
It's a depression when you've lost yours.

Mexicanpete said:

IanB2 said:

Guardian: The first details of the controversial Brexit checks Boris Johnson insisted would not apply to trade across the Irish Sea have emerged, with mandatory paperwork for businesses in Great Britain supplying goods to Northern Ireland from January.

An HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) document marked “sensitive”, seen by the Guardian, reveals that firms in Great Britain will be obliged to complete three rounds of customs, security and transit forms on all goods.

Taking back control?

LOL, you could not make it up , queue the brexit dupes on here saying it is a good thing for employment and a major sign of sovereignty. Keep waving those blue passports.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

malcolmg said:

Mexicanpete said:

IanB2 said:

Guardian: The first details of the controversial Brexit checks Boris Johnson insisted would not apply to trade across the Irish Sea have emerged, with mandatory paperwork for businesses in Great Britain supplying goods to Northern Ireland from January.

An HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) document marked “sensitive”, seen by the Guardian, reveals that firms in Great Britain will be obliged to complete three rounds of customs, security and transit forms on all goods.

Taking back control?

LOL, you could not make it up , queue the brexit dupes on here saying it is a good thing for employment and a major sign of sovereignty. Keep waving those blue passports.

Brexit served one important function. To shoehorn Boris Johnson through the door of 10 Downing Street.

Nadine Dorris is a despicable toad


https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1278577530975465472

ydoethur said:

noneoftheabove said:

Andy_JS said:

"Police have pledged to stop and fine drivers trying to flee Leicester for drinking or shopping after the city was put under a fresh lockdown following a spike in Covid-19 cases in the city.

Officers will carry out spot checks on vehicles leaving locked-down Leicester and could turn them around if their journey is not essential, it was revealed today, as confusion reigned because some areas in the city limits are in lockdown while neighbours are not.

Leicestershire Police is also threatening £100 fines amid growing concerns that residents may flee for the county's open pubs, hair salons or other attractions while patrols will also break up mass gatherings in the city after they were partially blamed for a spike in coronavirus cases in June."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8481783/Leaders-councils-threatened-Leicester-style-lockdowns-reject-idea.html

How many times will they hear the "eye test" defence?

I would have guessed once. And then when the news gets out that that person has been prosecuted for driving while unfit, people will realise you shouldn’t make jokes to the police.

That might be good advice, heavily caveated with it depends who says it and where in our society they stand.

Just heard an amusing analogy from my wife to explain COVID19:

You and nine friends are at a table crafting. One person is using glitter on their craft. How many projects ends up with glitter on it?

FF43 said:

Nadine Dorris is a despicable toad


https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1278577530975465472

A politician being partisan? Not that surprising.

Philip_Thompson said:

Just heard an amusing analogy from my wife to explain COVID19:

You and nine friends are at a table crafting. One person is using glitter on their craft. How many projects ends up with glitter on it?

If they are all teenage females, I suspect all would end up getting Glitter on them

IanB2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

You may not like this government, you may want to attack it, but it is the most legitimate government in recent history after winning an 80 seat majority just 8 months ago

Err, with only a minority (43%) of the vote and with more people voting for parties opposing its principal Brexit policy than voted for it.

We operate a FPTP electoral system and until that changes your argument is not valid

ydoethur said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

On the contrary, the tragedy is that it is legitimate. Russian interference could not even begin to explain the scale of Corbyn’s failure.

Although I would be surprised, to be honest, that the Russians felt the need to interfere. They had the option of a lowlife stool pigeon who instinctively sucks up to people who are actually his enemies and doesn’t have a clue what he is doing, or a long-standing admirer of the Soviet Union and critic of NATO. For them, the options in 2019 were about perfect.

The report was ready to publish before the 2019GE, so it's unlikely to be about Russian interference in that election.

Perhaps they didn't interfere in GE2019, as the product of their earlier interference, and willing dupes, meant they could settle back and admire a job well done.

IanB2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

You may not like this government, you may want to attack it, but it is the most legitimate government in recent history after winning an 80 seat majority just 8 months ago

Err, with only a minority (43%) of the vote and with more people voting for parties opposing its principal Brexit policy than voted for it.

Name one party opposing Brexit that you think should be the government?

The government won millions of votes more than any other party. You can't sum up all other parties votes and add them together that's not legitimate, if the other parties voters all wanted the same thing they'd have all voted for the same party. They chose not to do so.

ydoethur said:

Charles said:

Andy_JS said:

LadyG said:

dixiedean said:

LadyG said:

Nigelb said:

Unexplained mass elephant dying:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53257512

Christ. What a miserable era this is

Indeed. A plague of locusts has ravaged the crops of Sardinia.
When I read that I thought Daily Mash.
Sadly not.

2020 is by far the most depressing year of my life, to date, and I was born in the mid 1960s.

And we are only half way through. Indeed, exactly half way through

Do you have any memory of the 1968/69 flu epidemic? (It killed about 80,000 people in the UK, which would be around 100,000 today taking population increase into account).

I discussed that with my mother last weekend. She was 20 at the time.

Absolutely no memory. The government did nothing - it was just one of those things that happened. No lockdown or anything

I misread this comment at first. I was startled to learn Charles’ mother was 20 last weekend.

Then I engaged my brain.

Aren’t you aware of the new longevity technology?

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If you read this forum this nay come as a surprise

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1278463553125658627?s=09

From memory that's quite a change on previous polls asking that question but it makes a lot of sense.

Discovery of Synergistic and Antagonistic Drug Combinations against SARS-CoV-2 In Vitro
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.29.178889v1
...Using in silico approaches, we prioritized 73 combinations of 32 drugs with potential activity against SARS-CoV-2 and then tested them in vitro. Overall, we identified 16 synergistic and 8 antagonistic combinations, 4 of which were both synergistic and antagonistic in a dose-dependent manner. Among the 16 synergistic cases, combinations of nitazoxanide with three other compounds (remdesivir, amodiaquine and umifenovir) were the most notable, all exhibiting significant synergy against SARS-CoV-2. The combination of nitazoxanide, an FDA-approved drug, and remdesivir, FDA emergency use authorization for the treatment of COVID-19, demonstrate a strong synergistic interaction. Notably, the combination of remdesivir and hydroxychloroquine demonstrated strong antagonism. Overall, our results emphasize the importance of both drug repurposing and preclinical testing of drug combinations for potential therapeutic use against SARS-CoV-2 infections....

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If you read this forum this may come as a surprise

twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1278463553125658627?s=09

Not really. Lots of people critical of the government on here have been pointing out that it was the strategy of the government to blame the public for a second wave - and the one thing we know Cummings & Johnson are good at is winning a political debate by convincing the public to blame other people for things going wrong.

Disappointed, yes, not at all surprised.

Philip_Thompson said:

noneoftheabove said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53252096

Only two people fined for breaking quarantine on arriving at the UK. A policy for newspaper headlines only, never any intention to police or enforce this, just to make your "common sense" punter feel like something was being done.

That's not true. Policies don't only work if they're enforced. Authoritarians like you make me worry.

How many people have "done the right thing" just because that is what they were told to do, without requiring the Police banging on their door to enforce it?

Or indeed, decided not to travel at all because the quarantine rules made it clear it was still a risky thing to do.

Philip_Thompson said:

IanB2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

You may not like this government, you may want to attack it, but it is the most legitimate government in recent history after winning an 80 seat majority just 8 months ago

Err, with only a minority (43%) of the vote and with more people voting for parties opposing its principal Brexit policy than voted for it.

Name one party opposing Brexit that you think should be the government?

The government won millions of votes more than any other party. You can't sum up all other parties votes and add them together that's not legitimate, if the other parties voters all wanted the same thing they'd have all voted for the same party. They chose not to do so.

Whilst what you say is obviously true, and of course the govt should be in power, there are different levels of legitimacy. If it had won over half the vote that would have made it more legitimate even if thats a extremely harsh bar to set given our political system. Similarly if they paid more respect to the rule of law and our unwritten constitution they would be more legitimate. Of course they are the most legitimate available because they won the election but their actions and behaviour undermine that.

Philip_Thompson said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/mirandayaver/status/1278430829568561159

The fascist iconography of Trumpism is hiding in plain sight. If Trump were smarter he would really be dangerous.

I don't see it. The eagle is a symbol of America left, right or centre.

That fascists have used it doesn't change that. Trump is a racist who deserves to lose, but there's stronger connections than he uses an eagle in his artwork to say that.

But usually the eagle has the US flag in the centre of the eagle, with an olive branch and arrows in its talons rather than holding a disk below it. The resemblance is at best unfortunate, but probably a deliberate trap to try and make Trump's opponents look unpatriotic.

FF43 said:

Nadine Dorris is a despicable toad


https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1278577530975465472

That’s a strong reaction.

I guess Starmer’s criticism of government failings are ok, but Tory criticism of Labour failing isn’t.

Ok

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

You may not like this government, you may want to attack it, but it is the most legitimate government in recent history after winning an 80 seat majority just 8 months ago

Legitimacy is binary surely?

Cameron’s government was legitimate despite requiring a coalition

ClippP said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

You may not like this government, you may want to attack it, but it is the most legitimate government in recent history after winning an 80 seat majority just 8 months ago

Not if the Russians were involved in getting Johnson his 80 seat majority. Johnson´s government is illegitimate.

I wouldn't say illegitimate, but the willingness of so many conservatives to go along with this kind of stuff "because he won us the election" is seriously disturbing.

Philip_Thompson said:

noneoftheabove said:

Philip_Thompson said:

IanB2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

You may not like this government, you may want to attack it, but it is the most legitimate government in recent history after winning an 80 seat majority just 8 months ago

Err, with only a minority (43%) of the vote and with more people voting for parties opposing its principal Brexit policy than voted for it.

Name one party opposing Brexit that you think should be the government?

The government won millions of votes more than any other party. You can't sum up all other parties votes and add them together that's not legitimate, if the other parties voters all wanted the same thing they'd have all voted for the same party. They chose not to do so.

Whilst what you say is obviously true, and of course the govt should be in power, there are different levels of legitimacy. If it had won over half the vote that would have made it more legitimate even if thats a extremely harsh bar to set given our political system. Similarly if they paid more respect to the rule of law and our unwritten constitution they would be more legitimate. Of course they are the most legitimate available because they won the election but their actions and behaviour undermine that.

Can you name any western countries in your definition which are legitimate with your phrasing?

And no coalitions don't count unless they were a defined coalition standing in the election united (like the Coalition in Australia) since the public did not vote for them.

Easy, the Tory government here in the UK is legitimate. It is just less legitimate than it could and should be!

IanB2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

IanB2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

You may not like this government, you may want to attack it, but it is the most legitimate government in recent history after winning an 80 seat majority just 8 months ago

Err, with only a minority (43%) of the vote and with more people voting for parties opposing its principal Brexit policy than voted for it.

We operate a FPTP electoral system and until that changes your argument is not valid

Of course it is valid to challenge the legitimacy of a government that only received 43% of the vote. The system might deliver a large majority on the back of such a vote, but that does not make it legitimate.

A different view on what legitimacy is.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/11/trump-win-wasnt-fair-or-democraticbut-it-was-legitimate.html

If course, in the British Parliamentary system, where it is legitimate for MPs to choose a different PM if the current one loses their support, questions of legitimacy deriving from vote share, current public support, etc, have more relevance.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If you read this forum this may come as a surprise

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1278463553125658627?s=09

I would concur. I could evidence the folly of "others" by Main Road in Ogmore by Sea being jam packed with parked cars despite the roads from Ewenny and St Brides Major both having mobile matrix signs in place telling drivers "Beach car parks are closed".

That does not however distract me from the chaotic mixed messaging specifically from the Prime Minister, who's cheery optimism is implying we spend for Britain or fill our boots down the pub.

The economic and the health messages need to be finely balanced. They are not. They lurch from one extreme to the other.

eristdoof said:

Foxy said:

Andy_JS said:

"Police have pledged to stop and fine drivers trying to flee Leicester for drinking or shopping after the city was put under a fresh lockdown following a spike in Covid-19 cases in the city.

Officers will carry out spot checks on vehicles leaving locked-down Leicester and could turn them around if their journey is not essential, it was revealed today, as confusion reigned because some areas in the city limits are in lockdown while neighbours are not.

Leicestershire Police is also threatening £100 fines amid growing concerns that residents may flee for the county's open pubs, hair salons or other attractions while patrols will also break up mass gatherings in the city after they were partially blamed for a spike in coronavirus cases in June."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8481783/Leaders-councils-threatened-Leicester-style-lockdowns-reject-idea.html

The White Horse in Scraptoft will be busy. It is a large Weatherspoons just outside the boundary, and easy walking distance from the Thurnby Lodge Estate. There may be other similar pubs, but I don't think shops will be very busy outside, and hairdressers need booking weeks ahead. All the main Leicestershire shopping areas are included in the lockdown.

I may report from my local pub on Saturday, but I suspect the landlord won't be be serving non regulars.He is already pulling his hair out over trying to make the regulations work.

My prediction is the big pubs will be very strict with the rules, they are mostly chains and will not want the risk of naming and shaming by the media and legal challenges of negligence.

The small pubs will mostly be OK as the publicans are usually sensible people and want to look after their customers, many of whom are friends.

It is the medium sized pubs who will have the problems keeping control. Keeping 2/3 of the tables free while the staff are being overrun, serving so many people, trying to remember who has put their name on the attendance list etc. And probably some landlords will only care about reducing their overdraft.

Walked though one of our pub carp-parks yesterday and spoke to the manager. Taking a lot of steps... sanitisers, one way systems, app. Time limits on tables.
Another local pub has a sign up saying Exit Only, but I couldn't find an entrance.
A third has posted on the local;l Facebook page .... plenty of room on Saturday, let's drink the place dry!

Sad thing is that I prefer the third one, who at least has kept going as a takeaway.... and a very good one ..... over lockdown, but I'm really concerned about the attitude.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Without lockdown I am guessing Covid would have killed a million or more in this country (not necessarily by now, but in total, assuming most people exposed and fatality rate of at least 2% owing to the health system being overwhelmed).

A huge over-estimate imho. Sweden has not had a lockdown and its death rate isn't that different from ours.

Also don't forget that the number of new cases was falling before lockdown was introduced.

Still, we did introduce lockdown, so we will never know.

What I think is likely is that the number of deaths caused by the Chinese flu recession will significantly exceed the number of deaths caused by the virus. Assuming that each point off economic growth for a year causes 8-10k deaths, we're looking at 80-100k extra deaths from this year's 10% contraction, and half that from next year's below trend output.

So maybe 150-200k premature deaths from foregone economic growth.

And maybe a similar number from the collapse in health service productivity.

Charles said:

FF43 said:

Nadine Dorris is a despicable toad


https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1278577530975465472

That’s a strong reaction.

I guess Starmer’s criticism of government failings are ok, but Tory criticism of Labour failing isn’t.

Ok

Starmer is leader of the opposition.
I know it's difficult to believe, but Dorries is a health minister supposedly working together with local government leaders. The tweet would be unacceptable even if it were true.

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1278590326417117184

OldKingCole said:

eristdoof said:

Foxy said:

Andy_JS said:

"Police have pledged to stop and fine drivers trying to flee Leicester for drinking or shopping after the city was put under a fresh lockdown following a spike in Covid-19 cases in the city.

Officers will carry out spot checks on vehicles leaving locked-down Leicester and could turn them around if their journey is not essential, it was revealed today, as confusion reigned because some areas in the city limits are in lockdown while neighbours are not.

Leicestershire Police is also threatening £100 fines amid growing concerns that residents may flee for the county's open pubs, hair salons or other attractions while patrols will also break up mass gatherings in the city after they were partially blamed for a spike in coronavirus cases in June."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8481783/Leaders-councils-threatened-Leicester-style-lockdowns-reject-idea.html

The White Horse in Scraptoft will be busy. It is a large Weatherspoons just outside the boundary, and easy walking distance from the Thurnby Lodge Estate. There may be other similar pubs, but I don't think shops will be very busy outside, and hairdressers need booking weeks ahead. All the main Leicestershire shopping areas are included in the lockdown.

I may report from my local pub on Saturday, but I suspect the landlord won't be be serving non regulars.He is already pulling his hair out over trying to make the regulations work.

My prediction is the big pubs will be very strict with the rules, they are mostly chains and will not want the risk of naming and shaming by the media and legal challenges of negligence.

The small pubs will mostly be OK as the publicans are usually sensible people and want to look after their customers, many of whom are friends.

It is the medium sized pubs who will have the problems keeping control. Keeping 2/3 of the tables free while the staff are being overrun, serving so many people, trying to remember who has put their name on the attendance list etc. And probably some landlords will only care about reducing their overdraft.

Walked though one of our pub carp-parks yesterday and spoke to the manager. Taking a lot of steps... sanitisers, one way systems, app. Time limits on tables.
Another local pub has a sign up saying Exit Only, but I couldn't find an entrance.
A third has posted on the local;l Facebook page .... plenty of room on Saturday, let's drink the place dry!

Sad thing is that I prefer the third one, who at least has kept going as a takeaway.... and a very good one ..... over lockdown, but I'm really concerned about the attitude.

Sounds fishy.

I don’t believe this plaice exists

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1278592101035409408

Nigelb said:

Charles said:

FF43 said:

Nadine Dorris is a despicable toad


https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1278577530975465472

That’s a strong reaction.

I guess Starmer’s criticism of government failings are ok, but Tory criticism of Labour failing isn’t.

Ok

Starmer is leader of the opposition.
I know it's difficult to believe, but Dorries is a health minister supposedly working together with local government leaders. The tweet would be unacceptable even if it were true.

Labour has attacked the government for being too slow and too fast to lock down Leicester.

Soulsby has been specifically critical of the government saying a lockdown isn’t necessary.

Why do you think the government should allow the opposition free hits?

Philip_Thompson said:

kamski said:

Philip_Thompson said:

noneoftheabove said:

Philip_Thompson said:

IanB2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

You may not like this government, you may want to attack it, but it is the most legitimate government in recent history after winning an 80 seat majority just 8 months ago

Err, with only a minority (43%) of the vote and with more people voting for parties opposing its principal Brexit policy than voted for it.

Name one party opposing Brexit that you think should be the government?

The government won millions of votes more than any other party. You can't sum up all other parties votes and add them together that's not legitimate, if the other parties voters all wanted the same thing they'd have all voted for the same party. They chose not to do so.

Whilst what you say is obviously true, and of course the govt should be in power, there are different levels of legitimacy. If it had won over half the vote that would have made it more legitimate even if thats a extremely harsh bar to set given our political system. Similarly if they paid more respect to the rule of law and our unwritten constitution they would be more legitimate. Of course they are the most legitimate available because they won the election but their actions and behaviour undermine that.

Can you name any western countries in your definition which are legitimate with your phrasing?

And no coalitions don't count unless they were a defined coalition standing in the election united (like the Coalition in Australia) since the public did not vote for them.

"coalitions don't count" is just something you made up because you seem to like the not so democratic UK system.

I didn't make it up, coalitions did not get voted for at the election unless they were a defined coalition at the election.

If the desire is to get the mandate of 50% plus of votes at the election then you need 50% plus of votes at the election. The coalitions only got 50% plus at the election if they stood at the election.

As I said, something you just made up.

Here in Germany there is a legitimate elected coalition government. The proportion of people complaining about the voting system here is tiny compared to the UK. Once you've persuaded some Germans that their government is less legitimate than the UK's I'll start listening to your nonsense.

Lol, I'm enjoying Leicester being treated like a leper colony. Deserved as well. I've got distant family there and they definitely weren't taking the social distancing seriously, one of them posted a gathering of around 60-70 people in a small house on Instagram. I have no doubt that loads of people will have been infected there.

Charles said:

OldKingCole said:

eristdoof said:

Foxy said:

Andy_JS said:

"Police have pledged to stop and fine drivers trying to flee Leicester for drinking or shopping after the city was put under a fresh lockdown following a spike in Covid-19 cases in the city.

Officers will carry out spot checks on vehicles leaving locked-down Leicester and could turn them around if their journey is not essential, it was revealed today, as confusion reigned because some areas in the city limits are in lockdown while neighbours are not.

Leicestershire Police is also threatening £100 fines amid growing concerns that residents may flee for the county's open pubs, hair salons or other attractions while patrols will also break up mass gatherings in the city after they were partially blamed for a spike in coronavirus cases in June."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8481783/Leaders-councils-threatened-Leicester-style-lockdowns-reject-idea.html

The White Horse in Scraptoft will be busy. It is a large Weatherspoons just outside the boundary, and easy walking distance from the Thurnby Lodge Estate. There may be other similar pubs, but I don't think shops will be very busy outside, and hairdressers need booking weeks ahead. All the main Leicestershire shopping areas are included in the lockdown.

I may report from my local pub on Saturday, but I suspect the landlord won't be be serving non regulars.He is already pulling his hair out over trying to make the regulations work.

My prediction is the big pubs will be very strict with the rules, they are mostly chains and will not want the risk of naming and shaming by the media and legal challenges of negligence.

The small pubs will mostly be OK as the publicans are usually sensible people and want to look after their customers, many of whom are friends.

It is the medium sized pubs who will have the problems keeping control. Keeping 2/3 of the tables free while the staff are being overrun, serving so many people, trying to remember who has put their name on the attendance list etc. And probably some landlords will only care about reducing their overdraft.

Walked though one of our pub carp-parks yesterday and spoke to the manager. Taking a lot of steps... sanitisers, one way systems, app. Time limits on tables.
Another local pub has a sign up saying Exit Only, but I couldn't find an entrance.
A third has posted on the local;l Facebook page .... plenty of room on Saturday, let's drink the place dry!

Sad thing is that I prefer the third one, who at least has kept going as a takeaway.... and a very good one ..... over lockdown, but I'm really concerned about the attitude.

Sounds fishy.

I don’t believe this plaice exists

I hope that is your sole contribution.

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1278592101035409408

It is a mystery how Johnson hopes to get away with packaging a re-announcement of already promised investment, now spread over eight years rather than five, as anything comparable to the US's New Deal.

ydoethur said:

Charles said:

OldKingCole said:

eristdoof said:

Foxy said:

Andy_JS said:

"Police have pledged to stop and fine drivers trying to flee Leicester for drinking or shopping after the city was put under a fresh lockdown following a spike in Covid-19 cases in the city.

Officers will carry out spot checks on vehicles leaving locked-down Leicester and could turn them around if their journey is not essential, it was revealed today, as confusion reigned because some areas in the city limits are in lockdown while neighbours are not.

Leicestershire Police is also threatening £100 fines amid growing concerns that residents may flee for the county's open pubs, hair salons or other attractions while patrols will also break up mass gatherings in the city after they were partially blamed for a spike in coronavirus cases in June."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8481783/Leaders-councils-threatened-Leicester-style-lockdowns-reject-idea.html

The White Horse in Scraptoft will be busy. It is a large Weatherspoons just outside the boundary, and easy walking distance from the Thurnby Lodge Estate. There may be other similar pubs, but I don't think shops will be very busy outside, and hairdressers need booking weeks ahead. All the main Leicestershire shopping areas are included in the lockdown.

I may report from my local pub on Saturday, but I suspect the landlord won't be be serving non regulars.He is already pulling his hair out over trying to make the regulations work.

My prediction is the big pubs will be very strict with the rules, they are mostly chains and will not want the risk of naming and shaming by the media and legal challenges of negligence.

The small pubs will mostly be OK as the publicans are usually sensible people and want to look after their customers, many of whom are friends.

It is the medium sized pubs who will have the problems keeping control. Keeping 2/3 of the tables free while the staff are being overrun, serving so many people, trying to remember who has put their name on the attendance list etc. And probably some landlords will only care about reducing their overdraft.

Walked though one of our pub carp-parks yesterday and spoke to the manager. Taking a lot of steps... sanitisers, one way systems, app. Time limits on tables.
Another local pub has a sign up saying Exit Only, but I couldn't find an entrance.
A third has posted on the local;l Facebook page .... plenty of room on Saturday, let's drink the place dry!

Sad thing is that I prefer the third one, who at least has kept going as a takeaway.... and a very good one ..... over lockdown, but I'm really concerned about the attitude.

Sounds fishy.

I don’t believe this plaice exists

I hope that is your sole contribution.

Has this site been haked

kamski said:

Philip_Thompson said:

noneoftheabove said:

Philip_Thompson said:

IanB2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

You may not like this government, you may want to attack it, but it is the most legitimate government in recent history after winning an 80 seat majority just 8 months ago

Err, with only a minority (43%) of the vote and with more people voting for parties opposing its principal Brexit policy than voted for it.

Name one party opposing Brexit that you think should be the government?

The government won millions of votes more than any other party. You can't sum up all other parties votes and add them together that's not legitimate, if the other parties voters all wanted the same thing they'd have all voted for the same party. They chose not to do so.

Whilst what you say is obviously true, and of course the govt should be in power, there are different levels of legitimacy. If it had won over half the vote that would have made it more legitimate even if thats a extremely harsh bar to set given our political system. Similarly if they paid more respect to the rule of law and our unwritten constitution they would be more legitimate. Of course they are the most legitimate available because they won the election but their actions and behaviour undermine that.

Can you name any western countries in your definition which are legitimate with your phrasing?

And no coalitions don't count unless they were a defined coalition standing in the election united (like the Coalition in Australia) since the public did not vote for them.

"coalitions don't count" is just something you made up because you seem to like the not so democratic UK system.

Indeed.

Big_G's original statement was "most legitimate government in recent history"

Yet the 2010-15 coalition could claim to represent a majority of the votes cast in a way that the current government cannot.

https://twitter.com/EW/status/1278471001546919936

Vanilla 'rona

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

This is an absurd debate. Of course this government is legitimate. That is not in question. At the same time the demand for people to pay it fealty is also absurd - just because the government is legitimate doesn't mean that you should like or respect the fact that its incompetence has killed tens of thousands of people and that the Brexit bomb is armed and ready to explode.

It’s not legitimate in the sense that it’s being run by useless bastards.

Not in any other way.

But as we legitimately installed the government of useless barstewards, fully aware that the useless barsteward-in-chief was running the show it is wholly legitimate

Unless you are suggesting it is run by an unelected Spad, in which case it is not.

Philip_Thompson said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/mirandayaver/status/1278430829568561159

The fascist iconography of Trumpism is hiding in plain sight. If Trump were smarter he would really be dangerous.

I don't see it. The eagle is a symbol of America left, right or centre.

That fascists have used it doesn't change that. Trump is a racist who deserves to lose, but there's stronger connections than he uses an eagle in his artwork to say that.

There's always a degree of subjectivity with images. It's a bit like the famous mural. It was quite clearly anti-Semitic to me (although possibly subconsciously on the part of the artist, I don't know). But an old friend of mine really couldn't see it, he said these are just likenesses of real historical figures, not all of them are Jewish, etc etc. I wondered whether the fact that I studied history at school, covering the Nazi period where we looked at things like anti Semitic propaganda, and he didn't, might have explained it.
To me it is obvious that these graphics, like a lot of Trump iconography, have a fascist flavour to them. Themes like extreme patriotism, violence and dominance, aggression and anger, militarism and authority, all feature strongly. Luckily, Trump doesn't have a political philosophy so isn't really a fascist. He's just a narcissist who knows which buttons to press. Some of his supporters and henchmen are though I think. My guess is that the American Republic will survive Trump but he has certainly awoken something disturbing in US society. None of us should need reminding how dangerous fascism is.

kamski said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kamski said:

Philip_Thompson said:

noneoftheabove said:

Philip_Thompson said:

IanB2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Scott_xP said:

IanB2 said:

Clearly a take off of the The Americans title sequence. An effective line marred by having to be very quick at reading subtitles.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1278499093350879233

The bounties were allegedly to kill coalition -- including British -- troops. What's our new National Security Adviser said about it? Or the old one? And when will Boris publish the report into Russian interference in our politics?

If the Conservatives were clean, they would publish it. They haven´t, so they aren´t. The Johnson government is not legitimate.

You may not like this government, you may want to attack it, but it is the most legitimate government in recent history after winning an 80 seat majority just 8 months ago

Err, with only a minority (43%) of the vote and with more people voting for parties opposing its principal Brexit policy than voted for it.

Name one party opposing Brexit that you think should be the government?

The government won millions of votes more than any other party. You can't sum up all other parties votes and add them together that's not legitimate, if the other parties voters all wanted the same thing they'd have all voted for the same party. They chose not to do so.

Whilst what you say is obviously true, and of course the govt should be in power, there are different levels of legitimacy. If it had won over half the vote that would have made it more legitimate even if thats a extremely harsh bar to set given our political system. Similarly if they paid more respect to the rule of law and our unwritten constitution they would be more legitimate. Of course they are the most legitimate available because they won the election but their actions and behaviour undermine that.

Can you name any western countries in your definition which are legitimate with your phrasing?

And no coalitions don't count unless they were a defined coalition standing in the election united (like the Coalition in Australia) since the public did not vote for them.

"coalitions don't count" is just something you made up because you seem to like the not so democratic UK system.

I didn't make it up, coalitions did not get voted for at the election unless they were a defined coalition at the election.

If the desire is to get the mandate of 50% plus of votes at the election then you need 50% plus of votes at the election. The coalitions only got 50% plus at the election if they stood at the election.

As I said, something you just made up.

Here in Germany there is a legitimate elected coalition government. The proportion of people complaining about the voting system here is tiny compared to the UK. Once you've persuaded some Germans that their government is less legitimate than the UK's I'll start listening to your nonsense.

To try an analogy:

A party runs in the policy of painting Buckingham Palace blue (and nothing else) and wins 35% of the vote.

Another party wins 20% support for their sole policy of painting it red.

They agree to form a coalition.

@IanB2 @PClipp et al argue that it legitimate because they received over 50% of the vote

@Philip_Thompson argues that no one voted for a coalition government with a compromise policy of painting Buckingham Palace purple and therefore it is illegitimate