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FourCorrectHorseBattery said:As a former cultist, I say get the Corbynites out of the SC, if they are willing to do it themselves then fine.
They had their chance, we lost two elections in a row.2 -
oxfordsimon said:
It just gets better.Scott_xP said:
Do you see this as enhancing Starmer's position or weakening it?0 -
Aggressive cold calling is more their style.glw said:
I'm fairly certain that the Israeli secret services tactics are a bit more agressive than a knee on the neck.FrancisUrquhart said:
: "The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd's neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services."TheScreamingEagles said:What exactly was the antisemitic theory that Rebecca Long-Bailey shared?
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Indeed so. We can only blame gov actions to a point.turbotubbs said:
Personal responsibility?Mysticrose said:Beyond belief.
It's the Government's fault for giving out TOTALLY the wrong signals
https://news.sky.com/story/major-incident-declared-in-bournemouth-as-thousands-of-people-flock-to-beaches-120146861 -
Thanks for that - you are correct.ydoethur said:
No, 22 MPs is if there is a vacancy. To launch a challenge it would be 41.justin124 said:It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year.
I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.0 -
Fired from the shadow cabinet. It’s not a precise analogy because she’s not an employee but the principle is the same.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.0 -
Could a politician sacked from cabinet or shadow cabinet ever conceivably bring an unfair dismissal case that would have a good chance of succeeding?DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.0 -
At this point, I genuinely don't know.OllyT said:oxfordsimon said:
It just gets better.Scott_xP said:
Do you see this as enhancing Starmer's position or weakening it?
I love a bit of political drama - hence why I said 'It just gets better'
Starmer could come out of it stronger - but I think he needs to follow through with a more comprehensive purge.
But it could - if the Campaign Group get their act together (and that is a big if) -cause him a lot of trouble.
I believe that governments need strong oppositions - and so I hope this is the start of Labour dealing properly with those driven by hate who have infected their party.
But it is too early to say for certain whether this is the start of something more significant.0 -
You'll get called a lefty with posts like that.JohnO said:Causes pain but
Johnson and Jenrick
Starmer and Long-Bailey
As someone may have once said, "The difference is I lead my party, he follows his".0 -
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Various indication in other data that there was a "bump" in early June.turbotubbs said:
Agree with need to keep being careful. However the ones change is 14 positives from 11 previously. I also think I read that they don't control for clusters in a house, so it's not impossible that one house is the difference... Very small numbers being extrapolated. I also thing local hot spots are now an issue e.g. Leicester. But yes - need to stay frosty...Stuartinromford said:
The ONS survey has stopped showing decline as well.Nigelb said:
Considering it's a guesstimate at best, there is no real reason at all.Barnesian said:
I think it becomes so noisy and dependent on the incidence of individual cases that the R number is no longer useful. I've stopped monitoring R for Richmond borough for that reason. I can't see a theoretical reason why it should tend to 1, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.RobD said:
Doesn't R tend to 1 when the case numbers drop to very low levels?Barnesian said:Latest data
R now about 0.87. Uncomfortably close to 1. Cases halve every five weeks.
The Covid Tracker research effort (which I still recommend signing up for) indicates things are perhaps edging upwards in the middle of the country:
New daily COVID-19 cases in the UK have stopped falling this week:
https://covid19.joinzoe.com/post/covid-incidence-stable
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/england25june2020
It might just be that numbers are low and the error bars are bigger, though numbers seem to be flattening at a higher level than some other countries.
Let's hope it's nothing worse.
And let's be careful out there.0 -
tlg86 said:
The thing is, the Left of the Labour Party probably have less to lose at this point compared with the Right of the Labour Party pre-2019 GE. The Left probably know that they're unlikely to regain the leadership of the party any time soon, so perhaps would quite happily leave the party. If they could take some unions with them, even better.
and the best thing that could happen to the Labour Party in the long runBlack_Rook said:
Would be comfortably the fourth largest bloc in the Commons, of course.justin124 said:
Nearly 20% of the PLP.oxfordsimon said:Current members are listed on the Campaign Groups twitter account as:
Diane Abbott MP
Paula Barker MP
Apsana Begum MP
Olivia Blake MP
Richard Burgon MP
Ian Byrne MP
Dan Carden MP
Jeremy Corbyn MP
Marsha de Cordova MP
Mary Foy MP
Margaret Greenwood MP
Rachel Hopkins MP
Imran Hussain MP
Kim Johnson MP
Ian Lavery MP
Clive Lewis MP
Rebecca Long-Bailey MP
Rachael Maskell MP
Andy McDonald MP
John McDonnell MP
Ian Mearns MP
Nav Mishra MP
Grahame Morris MP
Charlotte Nichols MP
Kate Osamor MP
Kate Osborne MP
Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Lloyd Russell-Moyle MP
Cat Smith MP
Zarah Sultana MP
Sam Tarry MP
Jon Trickett MP
Claudia Webbe MP
Mick Whitley MP
Nadia Whittome MP
Beth Winter MP
Let's see how many are willing to fight for Bailey0 -
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.0 -
Yes I signed up for the Covid Tracker many weeks ago and report every day. Luckily it is no symptoms every day. But a bit of a cough today and a slightly raised temperature (37.3C) but that's probably because I've been walking on a dusty towpath in blazing sun for over an hour.Nigelb said:
Considering it's a guesstimate at best, there is no real reason at all.Barnesian said:
I think it becomes so noisy and dependent on the incidence of individual cases that the R number is no longer useful. I've stopped monitoring R for Richmond borough for that reason. I can't see a theoretical reason why it should tend to 1, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.RobD said:
Doesn't R tend to 1 when the case numbers drop to very low levels?Barnesian said:Latest data
R now about 0.87. Uncomfortably close to 1. Cases halve every five weeks.
The Covid Tracker research effort (which I still recommend signing up for) indicates things are perhaps edging upwards in the middle of the country:
New daily COVID-19 cases in the UK have stopped falling this week:
https://covid19.joinzoe.com/post/covid-incidence-stable0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
If Boris Johnson wants my vote he should send in the army to Bournemouth beach and use live ammo on them.
Pour encourager les autres et al.
Plus Johnson's hero Sir Winston Churchill wanted to use live ammo on the Welsh, so come on BJ show you're fit to lick the great man's boots.
There's a much closer parallel with the great man than that:
'We shall fight them .. on the beaches!'
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No. To bring an unfair dismissal claim you have to be an employee (legally that means someone working under a contract for service) and members of the cabinet and shadow cabinet are not employees. Instead they are officers, of the Crown in the case of the cabinet, and of the party in the case of the shadow cabinet.kinabalu said:
Could a politician sacked from cabinet or shadow cabinet ever conceivably bring an unfair dismissal case that would have a good chance of succeeding?DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
You can theoretically bring a discrimination claim if you are an officer but there are a number of Parliamentary exemptions.1 -
Clearly as he hasn't been fired for incompetently trying to fix a planning appeal and being caught trying to do so...Jonathan said:
Is Jenrick a close and valued ally?Fysics_Teacher said:
To be fair, I doubt if Starmer was heart broken at the prospect of being able to get rid of Long-Bailey.Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.
The test will come if and when/if it is someone who is a close and valued ally.0 -
My wordTheScreamingEagles said:Two Metropolitan police officers have been arrested after a photograph was allegedly taken of the bodies of murdered sisters in a London park, the Guardian has learned.
Nicole Smallman, 27, and Bibaa Henry, 46, were found stabbed to death in Fryent Country Park in north-west London this month.
They were reported missing after a birthday gathering on Friday 5 June, and their bodies were found on 7 June. Several days later police confirmed they had been stabbed to death by a stranger who was likely to have been injured in the attack and is still at large.
Smallman was a freelance photographer while Henry was a social worker and mother of one. They were daughters of Mina Smallman, the Church of England’s first female archdeacon from a black and minority ethnic background.
A criminal inquiry is under way into an “inappropriate” photo taken at the murder scene, and allegedly sent to a group of people who included members of the public.
It was reported to the Met police’s directorate of professional standards, which referred it to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), which is investigating. Thewatchdog described the allegations as “sickening”.
Two police officers were arrested on Monday on suspicion of misconduct in public office. Both had been deployed to guard the scene after the bodies were found, it is understood.
The investigation will consider whether any criminal charges should be brought or any discipline offences should apply. The family of the two women have been told of the photograph and are said to have been shocked and distressed.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/two-met-police-officers-arrested-over-photo-of-murdered-sisters0 -
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.0 -
On topic, and no doubt point already made but I haven't time to read all the wisdom here tonight, but surely SKS needs an understanding with the SNP with their 50 plus seats more than he does with the LibDems with their half a minibus full.0
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I get the point but how could it work in practice without parties?Richard_Tyndall said:
Which is one of the fundamental problems with our party system. The only people the MPs should be 'loyal' to are their electorate. In the end parties are a corruption of the system which damages democracykinabalu said:
It's a little easier to stick rigidly at all times to dozens of written-in-stone principles when blitzing away on the internet than it is when you are an MP for one of the main parties. So "loyalist" would imo be better here than "chameleon".Philip_Thompson said:
Nick Palmer is a chameleon. A party yesman to the party leader. When Blair was in charge he was a Blairite, when Brown was in charge he was a Brownite, when Corbyn was in charge he was a Corbynista. He's safe.squareroot2 said:oxfordsimon said:
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take actionjustin124 said:
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?oxfordsimon said:
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?justin124 said:It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year.
I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
Wonderful to see the odious Long bailey sacked. The hard left will be dealtoxfordsimon said:
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take actionjustin124 said:
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?oxfordsimon said:
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?justin124 said:It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year.
I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
with by KS that is clear
Is Nick Palmer safe ?0 -
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My eyesight is terrible, no need for a test!Jonathan said:
I think if this were Cameron having trouble with Eurosceptics circa 2011/2/3 and having to fire them etc whilst the other Eurosceptics went crazy you'd have said it was a bad sign for the Tories being split0 -
Two thoughts. Firstly when elected Starmer emphasised that anti Semitism was no longer going to be tolerated. Given her record she must have been aware she would be in his sights for this.
Secondly, education is a crisis area for the government both right now and over the coming months. The government is very vulnerable. Would you really want someone as stupid as RLB as your attack dog in this area?0 -
A jury service style system with 10-30% appointed by lot would help.kinabalu said:
I get the point but how could it work in practice without parties?Richard_Tyndall said:
Which is one of the fundamental problems with our party system. The only people the MPs should be 'loyal' to are their electorate. In the end parties are a corruption of the system which damages democracykinabalu said:
It's a little easier to stick rigidly at all times to dozens of written-in-stone principles when blitzing away on the internet than it is when you are an MP for one of the main parties. So "loyalist" would imo be better here than "chameleon".Philip_Thompson said:
Nick Palmer is a chameleon. A party yesman to the party leader. When Blair was in charge he was a Blairite, when Brown was in charge he was a Brownite, when Corbyn was in charge he was a Corbynista. He's safe.squareroot2 said:oxfordsimon said:
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take actionjustin124 said:
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?oxfordsimon said:
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?justin124 said:It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year.
I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
Wonderful to see the odious Long bailey sacked. The hard left will be dealtoxfordsimon said:
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take actionjustin124 said:
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?oxfordsimon said:
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?justin124 said:It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year.
I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
with by KS that is clear
Is Nick Palmer safe ?1 -
Yes. I think the balance of loyalty to party machinery and faction is too high, and I support systems to make it easier to elect multiple parties, but I think we are too quick to dismiss the positives of the development of poltiical parties in the first place, which do provide some form of shared vision (albeit a shifting, inconsistent one) for development of policies.kinabalu said:
I get the point but how could it work in practice without parties?Richard_Tyndall said:
Which is one of the fundamental problems with our party system. The only people the MPs should be 'loyal' to are their electorate. In the end parties are a corruption of the system which damages democracykinabalu said:
It's a little easier to stick rigidly at all times to dozens of written-in-stone principles when blitzing away on the internet than it is when you are an MP for one of the main parties. So "loyalist" would imo be better here than "chameleon".Philip_Thompson said:
Nick Palmer is a chameleon. A party yesman to the party leader. When Blair was in charge he was a Blairite, when Brown was in charge he was a Brownite, when Corbyn was in charge he was a Corbynista. He's safe.squareroot2 said:oxfordsimon said:
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take actionjustin124 said:
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?oxfordsimon said:
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?justin124 said:It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year.
I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
Wonderful to see the odious Long bailey sacked. The hard left will be dealtoxfordsimon said:
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take actionjustin124 said:
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?oxfordsimon said:
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?justin124 said:It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year.
I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
with by KS that is clear
Is Nick Palmer safe ?2 -
I don't blame people for wanting to go the beach on a day like this.2
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The contrast is that both appointed n’er do wells but only Keir had the bottle to correct the situation.BluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.0 -
Says all you need to know about too many of our universities.Floater said:
I pity those who have to be taught by her. They ought to be able to refuse to have her as their tutor - just as she refuses to tutor others.0 -
Johnson puts corrupt officials in his cabinet, so by implication you support such a processBluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.3 -
That's all gonnae change. SKS is going to get back former Lab voters from the SNP and keep the support of 43% of current SLab voters who support indy. Cunning plan to follow.partypoliticalorphan said:On topic, and no doubt point already made but I haven't time to read all the wisdom here tonight, but surely SKS needs an understanding with the SNP with their 50 plus seats more than he does with the LibDems with their half a minibus full.
https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1276167676172394498?s=200 -
Lincoln County, Oregon says that white people have to wear facemasks but minorities don't.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/oregon-county-people-of-color-mask-trnd/index.html0 -
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.CarlottaVance said:0 -
US Republican nominee for WH2020 as result of the convention, last matched prices:
Trump 1.09
Pence 26
Haley 80
Romney 200
Ryan 5000 -
Technically though hysterical, on this occasion he is partially right though, isn’t he? It is sedition.DougSeal said:
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.CarlottaVance said:0 -
But white supremicists taking over a State capitol while carrying semi automatics wasn’t?CarlottaVance said:
3 -
Smart win-win tweet by Rob Halfon. Reminding Tory colleagues about complacency whilst stirring the Labour pot. Good politics.DougSeal said:3 -
Thanks. Makes sense.DougSeal said:
No. To bring an unfair dismissal claim you have to be an employee (legally that means someone working under a contract for service) and members of the cabinet and shadow cabinet are not employees. Instead they are officers, of the Crown in the case of the cabinet, and of the party in the case of the shadow cabinet.kinabalu said:
Could a politician sacked from cabinet or shadow cabinet ever conceivably bring an unfair dismissal case that would have a good chance of succeeding?DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
You can theoretically bring a discrimination claim if you are an officer but there are a number of Parliamentary exemptions.1 -
Just playful high spirits.DavidL said:
But white supremicists taking over a State capitol while carrying semi automatics wasn’t?CarlottaVance said:2 -
ydoethur said:
Technically though hysterical, on this occasion he is partially right though, isn’t he? It is sedition.DougSeal said:
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.CarlottaVance said:
Brandenburg v. Ohio - seditious speech—including speech that constitutes an incitement to violence—is protected by the First Amendment as long as it does not indicate an "imminent" threat.0 -
One slight correction The official wasn't corrupt when he was appointed to the cabinet, the incident occurred after he joined the cabinet.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Johnson puts corrupt officials in his cabinet, so by implication you support such a processBluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.
He also didn't profit directly from the deal (although as with all former Cabinet Ministers I'mm sure he will profit from it afterwards) but he did do an immediate favour for a party donor when the donor asked him to do so.0 -
Why doesn't Trump just say that in Black Lives Matter he thinks black people have a very poor representative for their cause?DavidL said:
But white supremicists taking over a State capitol while carrying semi automatics wasn’t?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Trump just keeps tweeting - LAW AND ORDER !!0
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Don;t underestimate the tactic of frightening suburban white America.kinabalu said:Trump just keeps tweeting - LAW AND ORDER !!
0 -
It’s maybe a bit subtle for a tweet.contrarian said:DavidL said:
But white supremicists taking over a State capitol while carrying semi automatics wasn’t?CarlottaVance said:
Why doesn't Trump just say that in Black Lives Matter he thinks black people have a very poor representative for their cause?0 -
Ffs everything is terrible for Starmer in your opinion.isam said:
My eyesight is terrible, no need for a test!Jonathan said:
I think if this were Cameron having trouble with Eurosceptics circa 2011/2/3 and having to fire them etc whilst the other Eurosceptics went crazy you'd have said it was a bad sign for the Tories being split0 -
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Oh, he's frightening them all right, but not in the way I think he hopes.contrarian said:
Don;t underestimate the tactic of frightening suburban white America.kinabalu said:Trump just keeps tweeting - LAW AND ORDER !!
https://twitter.com/OpinionToday/status/12761504021703557180 -
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.kinabalu said:
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.1 -
70% of those casting ballots are White and in 2016 Trump won that group 55-37. If Biden has closed that gap substantially (a poll I saw the other day had an 8-point for Trump 50-42 so a 5% swing among a key voting bloc), the swing in EV votes would be dramatic.DougSeal said:
Oh, he's frightening them all right, but not in the way I think he hopes.
https://twitter.com/OpinionToday/status/1276150402170355718
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How many of these people are furloughed?IanB2 said:
The local paper is full of stories:tlg86 said:
My family have gone to Littlehampton today - that tends to be a bit better than the bigger resorts - but I'll report back if there was any trouble there.IanB2 said:
Gridlock around the town, more parking tickets issued than on any single day previously, refuse collectors emptying beachside bins need security guards after previous abuse and assaults. It sounds like chaos down there,tlg86 said:
Interesting. Looking at traffic on Google Maps, the road along the coast from Worthing to Brighton looks jammed.IanB2 said:Major incident declared in Bournemouth, suffering hugely from a massive influx of visitors and with incidents of violence.
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/
- widespread problems of illegal parking, excessive waste, anti-social behaviour, gridlock on roads and prohibited overnight camping
- 558 parking enforcement fines – the highest on record; many reports of cars parking and causing an obstruction
- Roads in and out of the area were heavily congested into the early hours
- widespread abuse and intimidation of crews attempting to empty overflowing bins on the seafront. In the stretch between just the piers, eight tonnes of waste was collected yesterday on the second collection run of the day. This morning, a further 33 tons of waste was removed
- a number of incidents reported which involved excessive alcohol and fights. Multiple fights on the beach left one man with cuts to his face and another with injuries after he was headbutted. A woman was attacked on an approach road to the beach0 -
Splitting hairs. If you want me to clarify when I said "fired" I meant fired from her office of shadow education secretary. Which is still a dismissal. WIthdrawal of the whip is a separate issue.Philip_Thompson said:
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.kinabalu said:
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.0 -
Why would anyone abuse people removing rubbish?IanB2 said:
The local paper is full of stories:tlg86 said:
My family have gone to Littlehampton today - that tends to be a bit better than the bigger resorts - but I'll report back if there was any trouble there.IanB2 said:
Gridlock around the town, more parking tickets issued than on any single day previously, refuse collectors emptying beachside bins need security guards after previous abuse and assaults. It sounds like chaos down there,tlg86 said:
Interesting. Looking at traffic on Google Maps, the road along the coast from Worthing to Brighton looks jammed.IanB2 said:Major incident declared in Bournemouth, suffering hugely from a massive influx of visitors and with incidents of violence.
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/
- widespread problems of illegal parking, excessive waste, anti-social behaviour, gridlock on roads and prohibited overnight camping
- 558 parking enforcement fines – the highest on record; many reports of cars parking and causing an obstruction
- Roads in and out of the area were heavily congested into the early hours
- widespread abuse and intimidation of crews attempting to empty overflowing bins on the seafront. In the stretch between just the piers, eight tonnes of waste was collected yesterday on the second collection run of the day. This morning, a further 33 tons of waste was removed
- a number of incidents reported which involved excessive alcohol and fights. Multiple fights on the beach left one man with cuts to his face and another with injuries after he was headbutted. A woman was attacked on an approach road to the beach
0 -
It is deliciously ironic that RBL and her hard left mates are ruthlessly intolerant of any tweet that even remotely offends their sense of grievance.3
-
Surely leaving the shadow cabinet is enough for a re -tweet.Which stated an accusation against the Israel state.Philip_Thompson said:
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.kinabalu said:
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
What you suggests is overkill, especially when you condone undue influence in a major planning decision and backing an advisor who broke his own governments rules.0 -
Seems a bit over the top.Philip_Thompson said:
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.kinabalu said:
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.1 -
Oh, but cancel culture was never meant to apply to them, just the bad people...humbugger said:It is deliciously ironic that RBL and her hard left mates are ruthlessly intolerant of any tweet that even remotely offends their sense of grievance.
0 -
It's a bit subtle for Trump too.DavidL said:
It’s maybe a bit subtle for a tweet.contrarian said:DavidL said:
But white supremicists taking over a State capitol while carrying semi automatics wasn’t?CarlottaVance said:
Why doesn't Trump just say that in Black Lives Matter he thinks black people have a very poor representative for their cause?1 -
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.DougSeal said:
Splitting hairs. If you want me to clarify when I said "fired" I meant fired from her office of shadow education secretary. Which is still a dismissal. WIthdrawal of the whip is a separate issue.Philip_Thompson said:
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.kinabalu said:
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?1 -
Just reading that the City of Seattle is getting overwhelmed with lawsuits by numerous businesses and residents unlucky enough to live in and around the CHOP.
Looks like some who support defunding the police might end up getting defunded themselves.0 -
The Bournemouth beach goers must be followers of the Sikora/Gupta school of thought.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.BluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.0 -
Are you talking about Starmer?kle4 said:
Why would anyone abuse people removing rubbish?IanB2 said:
The local paper is full of stories:tlg86 said:
My family have gone to Littlehampton today - that tends to be a bit better than the bigger resorts - but I'll report back if there was any trouble there.IanB2 said:
Gridlock around the town, more parking tickets issued than on any single day previously, refuse collectors emptying beachside bins need security guards after previous abuse and assaults. It sounds like chaos down there,tlg86 said:
Interesting. Looking at traffic on Google Maps, the road along the coast from Worthing to Brighton looks jammed.IanB2 said:Major incident declared in Bournemouth, suffering hugely from a massive influx of visitors and with incidents of violence.
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/
- widespread problems of illegal parking, excessive waste, anti-social behaviour, gridlock on roads and prohibited overnight camping
- 558 parking enforcement fines – the highest on record; many reports of cars parking and causing an obstruction
- Roads in and out of the area were heavily congested into the early hours
- widespread abuse and intimidation of crews attempting to empty overflowing bins on the seafront. In the stretch between just the piers, eight tonnes of waste was collected yesterday on the second collection run of the day. This morning, a further 33 tons of waste was removed
- a number of incidents reported which involved excessive alcohol and fights. Multiple fights on the beach left one man with cuts to his face and another with injuries after he was headbutted. A woman was attacked on an approach road to the beach1 -
Very good fall in number in hospital.
4,186 vs 4,543 yesterday.
All usual slides here if anyone wants them:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences0 -
and this IS about the health of the nation, and not just about you doing what I say for the sake of it.Pulpstar said:
The Bournemouth beach goers must be followers of the Sikora/Gupta school of thought.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Thought this might be of interest - ratio of positive tests to numbers of tests carried out....
Black line is 7 day trend line
1 -
Fortunately we have a world beating track and tracing app.Pulpstar said:
The Bournemouth beach goers must be followers of the Sikora/Gupta school of thought.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I don't believe Starmer has the power to expel RLB from the Labour Party - I might be wrong. He could have withdrawn the whip but presumably because all she did was re-tweet the article rather than author it, he's decided removing her from the SC is adequate at this time.Philip_Thompson said:
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?0 -
It hardly warrants that. Heath did not do that to Powell in 1968 when the latter delivered his 'rivers of blood' speech.Philip_Thompson said:
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.kinabalu said:
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.0 -
Examples?justin124 said:
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.BluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.
0 -
If Starmer opposes antisemitism then why would he have been willing to serve in a Corbyn government with endemic antisemitism ?Philip_Thompson said:
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.DougSeal said:
Splitting hairs. If you want me to clarify when I said "fired" I meant fired from her office of shadow education secretary. Which is still a dismissal. WIthdrawal of the whip is a separate issue.Philip_Thompson said:
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.kinabalu said:
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?0 -
Well, yes but at least 149 further deaths recorded and there's little doubt in my mind the true death toll is well above 60,000.MikeL said:Very good fall in number in hospital.
4,186 vs 4,543 yesterday.
All usual slides here if anyone wants them:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences
Slight rise in the number of new cases as well - I've long been of the view we needed two weeks of deaths >100 and new cases >1000 before we substantially re-opened the economy but other considerations have taken precedence.
As for Bournemouth, so many have said for so long outdoor transmission is rare and the young are mostly free of risk but it's also a sign furlough has perhaps disproportionately affected or afflicted the young.
The question is whether two months of "business" will save these jobs - maybe, maybe not.1 -
He has referred to 'piccanninies' and 'letter boxes'.Floater said:
Examples?justin124 said:
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.BluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.0 -
Sorry, I thought you were being serious.justin124 said:
He has referred to 'piccanninies' and 'letter boxes'.Floater said:
Examples?justin124 said:
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.BluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.1 -
It's as if there's a meaningful middle ground in the Culture Wars, and you don't have to choose between woke-leftism and populist-nationalism.BluestBlue said:
Oh, but cancel culture was never meant to apply to them, just the bad people...humbugger said:It is deliciously ironic that RBL and her hard left mates are ruthlessly intolerant of any tweet that even remotely offends their sense of grievance.
Whodathunkit?0 -
Perhaps but I've never been impressed with the revolving door of politics where people who abuse power can be "fired" but remain an MP, keep the whip, keep their salary and be re-elected as the same parties MP at the next election.Yorkcity said:
Surely leaving the shadow cabinet is enough for a re -tweet.Which stated an accusation against the Israel state.Philip_Thompson said:
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.kinabalu said:
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
What you suggests is overkill, especially when you condone undue influence in a major planning decision and backing an advisor who broke his own governments rules.
If you wish to fire someone sack them from your organisation. That means removing the whip. Otherwise at worst they've been demoted.
Saying "no I'm not sacking this person" is more intellectually honest than saying "I've sacked her" when you haven't.0 -
You don't think that referring to other people as 'piccanninies' is remotely racist? Do you feel the same about 'Wogs'?Floater said:
Sorry, I thought you were being serious.justin124 said:
He has referred to 'piccanninies' and 'letter boxes'.Floater said:
Examples?justin124 said:
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.BluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.0 -
Picanninies is inappropriate but it's clear from context he was attacking others racism. Like the language in the Germans Faulty Towers episode. Not appropriate today but the meaning at the time was clear.justin124 said:
He has referred to 'piccanninies' and 'letter boxes'.Floater said:
Examples?justin124 said:
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.BluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.
Letterboxes is entirely appropriate language and has nothing to do with race.0 -
Because he’s an idiot.contrarian said:
Why doesn't Trump just say that in Black Lives Matter he thinks black people have a very poor representative for their cause?DavidL said:
But white supremicists taking over a State capitol while carrying semi automatics wasn’t?CarlottaVance said:0 -
0
-
Sweden shows that you don't need to do that much to hold the virus at a constant level... but I wish the UK had chosen a lower constant level than this. 100 / day = 35 k / year. If this really is as good as it gets, it shows the weakness of the country.stodge said:
Well, yes but at least 149 further deaths recorded and there's little doubt in my mind the true death toll is well above 60,000.MikeL said:Very good fall in number in hospital.
4,186 vs 4,543 yesterday.
All usual slides here if anyone wants them:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences
Slight rise in the number of new cases as well - I've long been of the view we needed two weeks of deaths >100 and new cases >1000 before we substantially re-opened the economy but other considerations have taken precedence.
As for Bournemouth, so many have said for so long outdoor transmission is rare and the young are mostly free of risk but it's also a sign furlough has perhaps disproportionately affected or afflicted the young.
The question is whether two months of "business" will save these jobs - maybe, maybe not.0 -
What about the Papua New Guinea cannibalism remark?Philip_Thompson said:
Picanninies is inappropriate but it's clear from context he was attacking others racism. Like the language in the Germans Faulty Towers episode. Not appropriate today but the meaning at the time was clear.justin124 said:
He has referred to 'piccanninies' and 'letter boxes'.Floater said:
Examples?justin124 said:
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.BluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.
Letterboxes is entirely appropriate language and has nothing to do with race.0 -
Not having any effect in the recent polls. Long way to go but right now that tactic isn't working.contrarian said:
Don;t underestimate the tactic of frightening suburban white America.kinabalu said:Trump just keeps tweeting - LAW AND ORDER !!
0 -
Seems the correct response to me.stodge said:
I don't believe Starmer has the power to expel RLB from the Labour Party - I might be wrong. He could have withdrawn the whip but presumably because all she did was re-tweet the article rather than author it, he's decided removing her from the SC is adequate at this time.Philip_Thompson said:
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?0 -
It's not the same but Conservatives opposed to the EU were quite happy to support their party when it was still supportive of EU membership.another_richard said:
If Starmer opposes antisemitism then why would he have been willing to serve in a Corbyn government with endemic antisemitism ?
Tony Blair was elected MP in 1983 on a manifesto which opposed EEC membership and backed unilateral nuclear disarmament.
That's the thing about being a member of a political party - you can forget consistency and it's quite possible to support the bulk of the policies and disagree on one or to key ones.
I suppose it's whether you think parties should reflect public opinion and be led by it or stand on key principles and try to get the public to come to them.
Has Labour always been an anti-semitic party or did it become one under Corbyn? Starmer won the leadership election fair and square and he has to put his vision of the Labour party forward and eventually to the electorate.
One aspect of that is clearly a desire to rid the party of anti-semitism and that is to be welcomed - he has a lot more to do in many other areas to convince people he is ready to lead a Labour Government.0 -
The Labour Party doesn’t pay her salary. She gets that just for being an MP. Starmer can’t kick her out of the Commons even if he withdrew the whip.Philip_Thompson said:
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.DougSeal said:
Splitting hairs. If you want me to clarify when I said "fired" I meant fired from her office of shadow education secretary. Which is still a dismissal. WIthdrawal of the whip is a separate issue.Philip_Thompson said:
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.kinabalu said:
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?
You are having a pointless argument about the semantics of the word “fired” with the wrong person. You clearly think she should have had the whip withdrawn as well as being fired from the shadow cabinet. That’s your prerogative. I have no dog in the fight as I am not a member nor a supporter of the Labour Party. He could have “fired” her in a very literal sense into the sun or out of a cannon for all I care.0 -
Highly likely to be yet another silent hound. We have been assured, time after time, that young people frolicking in the sunshine will lead us into disaster, yet so far it’s made no difference.TheScreamingEagles said:
If Whitty wanted to make a real difference he could suggest a ban on cheap processed meat?0 -
Getting back to the central pointjustin124 said:
You don't think that referring to other people as 'piccanninies' is remotely racist? Do you feel the same about 'Wogs'?Floater said:
Sorry, I thought you were being serious.justin124 said:
He has referred to 'piccanninies' and 'letter boxes'.Floater said:
Examples?justin124 said:
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.BluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.
"A government infected by racism"
Evidence please0 -
I have to say, I think that would be slightly excessive.DougSeal said:
The Labour Party doesn’t pay her salary. She gets that just for being an MP. Starmer can’t kick her out of the Commons even if he withdrew the whip.Philip_Thompson said:
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.DougSeal said:
Splitting hairs. If you want me to clarify when I said "fired" I meant fired from her office of shadow education secretary. Which is still a dismissal. WIthdrawal of the whip is a separate issue.Philip_Thompson said:
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.kinabalu said:
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.Philip_Thompson said:
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.DougSeal said:
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.Casino_Royale said:
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.Scott_xP said:
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?
You are having a pointless argument about the semantics of the word “fired” with the wrong person. You clearly think she should have had the whip withdrawn as well as being fired from the shadow cabinet. That’s your prerogative. I have no dog in the fight as I am not a member nor a supporter of the Labour Party. He could have “fired” her in a very literal sense into the sun or out of a cannon for all I care.
But you never know. Has @Morris_Dancer had any requests from Labour for a loan of his cannon?0 -
I'm curious as to what proportion of the country are:stodge said:
Well, yes but at least 149 further deaths recorded and there's little doubt in my mind the true death toll is well above 60,000.MikeL said:Very good fall in number in hospital.
4,186 vs 4,543 yesterday.
All usual slides here if anyone wants them:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences
Slight rise in the number of new cases as well - I've long been of the view we needed two weeks of deaths >100 and new cases >1000 before we substantially re-opened the economy but other considerations have taken precedence.
As for Bournemouth, so many have said for so long outdoor transmission is rare and the young are mostly free of risk but it's also a sign furlough has perhaps disproportionately affected or afflicted the young.
The question is whether two months of "business" will save these jobs - maybe, maybe not.
1) Immediately joining the rush for shops / beaches / takeaways / pubs
2) Cowering in their own homes
3) Going along pretty much as normal
0 -
Playing into his handsDougSeal said:
Oh, he's frightening them all right, but not in the way I think he hopes.contrarian said:
Don;t underestimate the tactic of frightening suburban white America.kinabalu said:Trump just keeps tweeting - LAW AND ORDER !!
https://twitter.com/OpinionToday/status/12761504021703557180 -
The fact that that the PM has made such statements is surely evidence enough of a government infected by racism.Floater said:
Getting back to the central pointjustin124 said:
You don't think that referring to other people as 'piccanninies' is remotely racist? Do you feel the same about 'Wogs'?Floater said:
Sorry, I thought you were being serious.justin124 said:
He has referred to 'piccanninies' and 'letter boxes'.Floater said:
Examples?justin124 said:
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.BluestBlue said:
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?Jonathan said:Cummings stays
Jenrick stays
Long-Bailey goes
Quite a contrast.
"A government infected by racism"
Evidence please0 -
I doubt the EU would let us get away with that, especially given the size of the UK economy and the importance of London's giant financial markets.Carnyx said:
You could add the Northern Isles (Orkney and Shetland) to that analysis.
And adopting the Euro is not necessary - merely a pious assumption deferred to some shadowy future (cf. Sweden IIRC)0
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