It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year. I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
No, 22 MPs is if there is a vacancy. To launch a challenge it would be 41.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Fired from the shadow cabinet. It’s not a precise analogy because she’s not an employee but the principle is the same.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
Could a politician sacked from cabinet or shadow cabinet ever conceivably bring an unfair dismissal case that would have a good chance of succeeding?
Do you see this as enhancing Starmer's position or weakening it?
At this point, I genuinely don't know.
I love a bit of political drama - hence why I said 'It just gets better'
Starmer could come out of it stronger - but I think he needs to follow through with a more comprehensive purge.
But it could - if the Campaign Group get their act together (and that is a big if) -cause him a lot of trouble.
I believe that governments need strong oppositions - and so I hope this is the start of Labour dealing properly with those driven by hate who have infected their party.
But it is too early to say for certain whether this is the start of something more significant.
Latest data R now about 0.87. Uncomfortably close to 1. Cases halve every five weeks.
Doesn't R tend to 1 when the case numbers drop to very low levels?
I think it becomes so noisy and dependent on the incidence of individual cases that the R number is no longer useful. I've stopped monitoring R for Richmond borough for that reason. I can't see a theoretical reason why it should tend to 1, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
Considering it's a guesstimate at best, there is no real reason at all.
The Covid Tracker research effort (which I still recommend signing up for) indicates things are perhaps edging upwards in the middle of the country:
It might just be that numbers are low and the error bars are bigger, though numbers seem to be flattening at a higher level than some other countries.
Let's hope it's nothing worse.
And let's be careful out there.
Agree with need to keep being careful. However the ones change is 14 positives from 11 previously. I also think I read that they don't control for clusters in a house, so it's not impossible that one house is the difference... Very small numbers being extrapolated. I also thing local hot spots are now an issue e.g. Leicester. But yes - need to stay frosty...
Various indication in other data that there was a "bump" in early June.
The thing is, the Left of the Labour Party probably have less to lose at this point compared with the Right of the Labour Party pre-2019 GE. The Left probably know that they're unlikely to regain the leadership of the party any time soon, so perhaps would quite happily leave the party. If they could take some unions with them, even better.
Current members are listed on the Campaign Groups twitter account as:
Diane Abbott MP Paula Barker MP Apsana Begum MP Olivia Blake MP Richard Burgon MP Ian Byrne MP Dan Carden MP Jeremy Corbyn MP Marsha de Cordova MP Mary Foy MP Margaret Greenwood MP Rachel Hopkins MP Imran Hussain MP Kim Johnson MP Ian Lavery MP Clive Lewis MP Rebecca Long-Bailey MP Rachael Maskell MP Andy McDonald MP John McDonnell MP Ian Mearns MP Nav Mishra MP Grahame Morris MP Charlotte Nichols MP Kate Osamor MP Kate Osborne MP Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle MP Cat Smith MP Zarah Sultana MP Sam Tarry MP Jon Trickett MP Claudia Webbe MP Mick Whitley MP Nadia Whittome MP Beth Winter MP
Let's see how many are willing to fight for Bailey
Nearly 20% of the PLP.
Would be comfortably the fourth largest bloc in the Commons, of course.
and the best thing that could happen to the Labour Party in the long run
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
Latest data R now about 0.87. Uncomfortably close to 1. Cases halve every five weeks.
Doesn't R tend to 1 when the case numbers drop to very low levels?
I think it becomes so noisy and dependent on the incidence of individual cases that the R number is no longer useful. I've stopped monitoring R for Richmond borough for that reason. I can't see a theoretical reason why it should tend to 1, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
Considering it's a guesstimate at best, there is no real reason at all.
The Covid Tracker research effort (which I still recommend signing up for) indicates things are perhaps edging upwards in the middle of the country:
Yes I signed up for the Covid Tracker many weeks ago and report every day. Luckily it is no symptoms every day. But a bit of a cough today and a slightly raised temperature (37.3C) but that's probably because I've been walking on a dusty towpath in blazing sun for over an hour.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
Could a politician sacked from cabinet or shadow cabinet ever conceivably bring an unfair dismissal case that would have a good chance of succeeding?
No. To bring an unfair dismissal claim you have to be an employee (legally that means someone working under a contract for service) and members of the cabinet and shadow cabinet are not employees. Instead they are officers, of the Crown in the case of the cabinet, and of the party in the case of the shadow cabinet.
You can theoretically bring a discrimination claim if you are an officer but there are a number of Parliamentary exemptions.
To be fair, I doubt if Starmer was heart broken at the prospect of being able to get rid of Long-Bailey. The test will come if and when/if it is someone who is a close and valued ally.
Is Jenrick a close and valued ally?
Clearly as he hasn't been fired for incompetently trying to fix a planning appeal and being caught trying to do so...
Two Metropolitan police officers have been arrested after a photograph was allegedly taken of the bodies of murdered sisters in a London park, the Guardian has learned.
Nicole Smallman, 27, and Bibaa Henry, 46, were found stabbed to death in Fryent Country Park in north-west London this month.
They were reported missing after a birthday gathering on Friday 5 June, and their bodies were found on 7 June. Several days later police confirmed they had been stabbed to death by a stranger who was likely to have been injured in the attack and is still at large.
Smallman was a freelance photographer while Henry was a social worker and mother of one. They were daughters of Mina Smallman, the Church of England’s first female archdeacon from a black and minority ethnic background.
A criminal inquiry is under way into an “inappropriate” photo taken at the murder scene, and allegedly sent to a group of people who included members of the public.
It was reported to the Met police’s directorate of professional standards, which referred it to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), which is investigating. Thewatchdog described the allegations as “sickening”.
Two police officers were arrested on Monday on suspicion of misconduct in public office. Both had been deployed to guard the scene after the bodies were found, it is understood.
The investigation will consider whether any criminal charges should be brought or any discipline offences should apply. The family of the two women have been told of the photograph and are said to have been shocked and distressed.
On topic, and no doubt point already made but I haven't time to read all the wisdom here tonight, but surely SKS needs an understanding with the SNP with their 50 plus seats more than he does with the LibDems with their half a minibus full.
It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year. I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take action
It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year. I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take action
Wonderful to see the odious Long bailey sacked. The hard left will be dealt
with by KS that is clear Is Nick Palmer safe ?
Nick Palmer is a chameleon. A party yesman to the party leader. When Blair was in charge he was a Blairite, when Brown was in charge he was a Brownite, when Corbyn was in charge he was a Corbynista. He's safe.
It's a little easier to stick rigidly at all times to dozens of written-in-stone principles when blitzing away on the internet than it is when you are an MP for one of the main parties. So "loyalist" would imo be better here than "chameleon".
Which is one of the fundamental problems with our party system. The only people the MPs should be 'loyal' to are their electorate. In the end parties are a corruption of the system which damages democracy
I get the point but how could it work in practice without parties?
If you think that is a good thing, I would normally suggest you get your eyes tested, but I would be worried you would go for a drive.
My eyesight is terrible, no need for a test!
I think if this were Cameron having trouble with Eurosceptics circa 2011/2/3 and having to fire them etc whilst the other Eurosceptics went crazy you'd have said it was a bad sign for the Tories being split
Two thoughts. Firstly when elected Starmer emphasised that anti Semitism was no longer going to be tolerated. Given her record she must have been aware she would be in his sights for this.
Secondly, education is a crisis area for the government both right now and over the coming months. The government is very vulnerable. Would you really want someone as stupid as RLB as your attack dog in this area?
It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year. I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take action
It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year. I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take action
Wonderful to see the odious Long bailey sacked. The hard left will be dealt
with by KS that is clear Is Nick Palmer safe ?
Nick Palmer is a chameleon. A party yesman to the party leader. When Blair was in charge he was a Blairite, when Brown was in charge he was a Brownite, when Corbyn was in charge he was a Corbynista. He's safe.
It's a little easier to stick rigidly at all times to dozens of written-in-stone principles when blitzing away on the internet than it is when you are an MP for one of the main parties. So "loyalist" would imo be better here than "chameleon".
Which is one of the fundamental problems with our party system. The only people the MPs should be 'loyal' to are their electorate. In the end parties are a corruption of the system which damages democracy
I get the point but how could it work in practice without parties?
A jury service style system with 10-30% appointed by lot would help.
It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year. I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take action
It depends on how the Corbynites decide to play it.Some might decide that just as the PLP sought to destabilise Corbyn, they can now return the favour by seeking to do the same to Starmer.I am sure that the thresholds of 22 MPs and 5% of CLPs would be achievable , should they wish to go down that road. Others in their ranks may be inclined to hold off until next year. I imagine that McCluskey et al still support RLB.
Who is going to lay down their political life to support RLB?
I am not a fan at all - but she was the standard bearer of the Corbynite wing in the Leadership Election. Will those who supported her have changed their minds?
She isn't the sort of personality to inspire self-sacrifice. They might support her with a tweet or two and being generally outraged. But they won't take action
Wonderful to see the odious Long bailey sacked. The hard left will be dealt
with by KS that is clear Is Nick Palmer safe ?
Nick Palmer is a chameleon. A party yesman to the party leader. When Blair was in charge he was a Blairite, when Brown was in charge he was a Brownite, when Corbyn was in charge he was a Corbynista. He's safe.
It's a little easier to stick rigidly at all times to dozens of written-in-stone principles when blitzing away on the internet than it is when you are an MP for one of the main parties. So "loyalist" would imo be better here than "chameleon".
Which is one of the fundamental problems with our party system. The only people the MPs should be 'loyal' to are their electorate. In the end parties are a corruption of the system which damages democracy
I get the point but how could it work in practice without parties?
Yes. I think the balance of loyalty to party machinery and faction is too high, and I support systems to make it easier to elect multiple parties, but I think we are too quick to dismiss the positives of the development of poltiical parties in the first place, which do provide some form of shared vision (albeit a shifting, inconsistent one) for development of policies.
On topic, and no doubt point already made but I haven't time to read all the wisdom here tonight, but surely SKS needs an understanding with the SNP with their 50 plus seats more than he does with the LibDems with their half a minibus full.
That's all gonnae change. SKS is going to get back former Lab voters from the SNP and keep the support of 43% of current SLab voters who support indy. Cunning plan to follow.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
Could a politician sacked from cabinet or shadow cabinet ever conceivably bring an unfair dismissal case that would have a good chance of succeeding?
No. To bring an unfair dismissal claim you have to be an employee (legally that means someone working under a contract for service) and members of the cabinet and shadow cabinet are not employees. Instead they are officers, of the Crown in the case of the cabinet, and of the party in the case of the shadow cabinet.
You can theoretically bring a discrimination claim if you are an officer but there are a number of Parliamentary exemptions.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Technically though hysterical, on this occasion he is partially right though, isn’t he? It is sedition.
Brandenburg v. Ohio - seditious speech—including speech that constitutes an incitement to violence—is protected by the First Amendment as long as it does not indicate an "imminent" threat.
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?
Johnson puts corrupt officials in his cabinet, so by implication you support such a process
One slight correction The official wasn't corrupt when he was appointed to the cabinet, the incident occurred after he joined the cabinet.
He also didn't profit directly from the deal (although as with all former Cabinet Ministers I'mm sure he will profit from it afterwards) but he did do an immediate favour for a party donor when the donor asked him to do so.
If you think that is a good thing, I would normally suggest you get your eyes tested, but I would be worried you would go for a drive.
My eyesight is terrible, no need for a test!
I think if this were Cameron having trouble with Eurosceptics circa 2011/2/3 and having to fire them etc whilst the other Eurosceptics went crazy you'd have said it was a bad sign for the Tories being split
Ffs everything is terrible for Starmer in your opinion.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.
70% of those casting ballots are White and in 2016 Trump won that group 55-37. If Biden has closed that gap substantially (a poll I saw the other day had an 8-point for Trump 50-42 so a 5% swing among a key voting bloc), the swing in EV votes would be dramatic.
Major incident declared in Bournemouth, suffering hugely from a massive influx of visitors and with incidents of violence.
Interesting. Looking at traffic on Google Maps, the road along the coast from Worthing to Brighton looks jammed.
Gridlock around the town, more parking tickets issued than on any single day previously, refuse collectors emptying beachside bins need security guards after previous abuse and assaults. It sounds like chaos down there,
My family have gone to Littlehampton today - that tends to be a bit better than the bigger resorts - but I'll report back if there was any trouble there.
- widespread problems of illegal parking, excessive waste, anti-social behaviour, gridlock on roads and prohibited overnight camping
- 558 parking enforcement fines – the highest on record; many reports of cars parking and causing an obstruction
- Roads in and out of the area were heavily congested into the early hours
- widespread abuse and intimidation of crews attempting to empty overflowing bins on the seafront. In the stretch between just the piers, eight tonnes of waste was collected yesterday on the second collection run of the day. This morning, a further 33 tons of waste was removed
- a number of incidents reported which involved excessive alcohol and fights. Multiple fights on the beach left one man with cuts to his face and another with injuries after he was headbutted. A woman was attacked on an approach road to the beach
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.
Splitting hairs. If you want me to clarify when I said "fired" I meant fired from her office of shadow education secretary. Which is still a dismissal. WIthdrawal of the whip is a separate issue.
Major incident declared in Bournemouth, suffering hugely from a massive influx of visitors and with incidents of violence.
Interesting. Looking at traffic on Google Maps, the road along the coast from Worthing to Brighton looks jammed.
Gridlock around the town, more parking tickets issued than on any single day previously, refuse collectors emptying beachside bins need security guards after previous abuse and assaults. It sounds like chaos down there,
My family have gone to Littlehampton today - that tends to be a bit better than the bigger resorts - but I'll report back if there was any trouble there.
- widespread problems of illegal parking, excessive waste, anti-social behaviour, gridlock on roads and prohibited overnight camping
- 558 parking enforcement fines – the highest on record; many reports of cars parking and causing an obstruction
- Roads in and out of the area were heavily congested into the early hours
- widespread abuse and intimidation of crews attempting to empty overflowing bins on the seafront. In the stretch between just the piers, eight tonnes of waste was collected yesterday on the second collection run of the day. This morning, a further 33 tons of waste was removed
- a number of incidents reported which involved excessive alcohol and fights. Multiple fights on the beach left one man with cuts to his face and another with injuries after he was headbutted. A woman was attacked on an approach road to the beach
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.
Surely leaving the shadow cabinet is enough for a re -tweet.Which stated an accusation against the Israel state. What you suggests is overkill, especially when you condone undue influence in a major planning decision and backing an advisor who broke his own governments rules.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.
Splitting hairs. If you want me to clarify when I said "fired" I meant fired from her office of shadow education secretary. Which is still a dismissal. WIthdrawal of the whip is a separate issue.
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?
Just reading that the City of Seattle is getting overwhelmed with lawsuits by numerous businesses and residents unlucky enough to live in and around the CHOP.
Looks like some who support defunding the police might end up getting defunded themselves.
Major incident declared in Bournemouth, suffering hugely from a massive influx of visitors and with incidents of violence.
Interesting. Looking at traffic on Google Maps, the road along the coast from Worthing to Brighton looks jammed.
Gridlock around the town, more parking tickets issued than on any single day previously, refuse collectors emptying beachside bins need security guards after previous abuse and assaults. It sounds like chaos down there,
My family have gone to Littlehampton today - that tends to be a bit better than the bigger resorts - but I'll report back if there was any trouble there.
- widespread problems of illegal parking, excessive waste, anti-social behaviour, gridlock on roads and prohibited overnight camping
- 558 parking enforcement fines – the highest on record; many reports of cars parking and causing an obstruction
- Roads in and out of the area were heavily congested into the early hours
- widespread abuse and intimidation of crews attempting to empty overflowing bins on the seafront. In the stretch between just the piers, eight tonnes of waste was collected yesterday on the second collection run of the day. This morning, a further 33 tons of waste was removed
- a number of incidents reported which involved excessive alcohol and fights. Multiple fights on the beach left one man with cuts to his face and another with injuries after he was headbutted. A woman was attacked on an approach road to the beach
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?
I don't believe Starmer has the power to expel RLB from the Labour Party - I might be wrong. He could have withdrawn the whip but presumably because all she did was re-tweet the article rather than author it, he's decided removing her from the SC is adequate at this time.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.
It hardly warrants that. Heath did not do that to Powell in 1968 when the latter delivered his 'rivers of blood' speech.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.
Splitting hairs. If you want me to clarify when I said "fired" I meant fired from her office of shadow education secretary. Which is still a dismissal. WIthdrawal of the whip is a separate issue.
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?
If Starmer opposes antisemitism then why would he have been willing to serve in a Corbyn government with endemic antisemitism ?
Well, yes but at least 149 further deaths recorded and there's little doubt in my mind the true death toll is well above 60,000.
Slight rise in the number of new cases as well - I've long been of the view we needed two weeks of deaths >100 and new cases >1000 before we substantially re-opened the economy but other considerations have taken precedence.
As for Bournemouth, so many have said for so long outdoor transmission is rare and the young are mostly free of risk but it's also a sign furlough has perhaps disproportionately affected or afflicted the young.
The question is whether two months of "business" will save these jobs - maybe, maybe not.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.
Surely leaving the shadow cabinet is enough for a re -tweet.Which stated an accusation against the Israel state. What you suggests is overkill, especially when you condone undue influence in a major planning decision and backing an advisor who broke his own governments rules.
Perhaps but I've never been impressed with the revolving door of politics where people who abuse power can be "fired" but remain an MP, keep the whip, keep their salary and be re-elected as the same parties MP at the next election.
If you wish to fire someone sack them from your organisation. That means removing the whip. Otherwise at worst they've been demoted.
Saying "no I'm not sacking this person" is more intellectually honest than saying "I've sacked her" when you haven't.
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.
Examples?
He has referred to 'piccanninies' and 'letter boxes'.
Picanninies is inappropriate but it's clear from context he was attacking others racism. Like the language in the Germans Faulty Towers episode. Not appropriate today but the meaning at the time was clear.
Letterboxes is entirely appropriate language and has nothing to do with race.
Well, yes but at least 149 further deaths recorded and there's little doubt in my mind the true death toll is well above 60,000.
Slight rise in the number of new cases as well - I've long been of the view we needed two weeks of deaths >100 and new cases >1000 before we substantially re-opened the economy but other considerations have taken precedence.
As for Bournemouth, so many have said for so long outdoor transmission is rare and the young are mostly free of risk but it's also a sign furlough has perhaps disproportionately affected or afflicted the young.
The question is whether two months of "business" will save these jobs - maybe, maybe not.
Sweden shows that you don't need to do that much to hold the virus at a constant level... but I wish the UK had chosen a lower constant level than this. 100 / day = 35 k / year. If this really is as good as it gets, it shows the weakness of the country.
The contrast being that Starmer put fans of antisemitic conspiracy theories in his Shadow Cabinet, and Boris didn't?
But he provides a good example himself of a Government infected by racism.
Examples?
He has referred to 'piccanninies' and 'letter boxes'.
Picanninies is inappropriate but it's clear from context he was attacking others racism. Like the language in the Germans Faulty Towers episode. Not appropriate today but the meaning at the time was clear.
Letterboxes is entirely appropriate language and has nothing to do with race.
What about the Papua New Guinea cannibalism remark?
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?
I don't believe Starmer has the power to expel RLB from the Labour Party - I might be wrong. He could have withdrawn the whip but presumably because all she did was re-tweet the article rather than author it, he's decided removing her from the SC is adequate at this time.
If Starmer opposes antisemitism then why would he have been willing to serve in a Corbyn government with endemic antisemitism ?
It's not the same but Conservatives opposed to the EU were quite happy to support their party when it was still supportive of EU membership.
Tony Blair was elected MP in 1983 on a manifesto which opposed EEC membership and backed unilateral nuclear disarmament.
That's the thing about being a member of a political party - you can forget consistency and it's quite possible to support the bulk of the policies and disagree on one or to key ones.
I suppose it's whether you think parties should reflect public opinion and be led by it or stand on key principles and try to get the public to come to them.
Has Labour always been an anti-semitic party or did it become one under Corbyn? Starmer won the leadership election fair and square and he has to put his vision of the Labour party forward and eventually to the electorate.
One aspect of that is clearly a desire to rid the party of anti-semitism and that is to be welcomed - he has a lot more to do in many other areas to convince people he is ready to lead a Labour Government.
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.
Splitting hairs. If you want me to clarify when I said "fired" I meant fired from her office of shadow education secretary. Which is still a dismissal. WIthdrawal of the whip is a separate issue.
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?
The Labour Party doesn’t pay her salary. She gets that just for being an MP. Starmer can’t kick her out of the Commons even if he withdrew the whip.
You are having a pointless argument about the semantics of the word “fired” with the wrong person. You clearly think she should have had the whip withdrawn as well as being fired from the shadow cabinet. That’s your prerogative. I have no dog in the fight as I am not a member nor a supporter of the Labour Party. He could have “fired” her in a very literal sense into the sun or out of a cannon for all I care.
Highly likely to be yet another silent hound. We have been assured, time after time, that young people frolicking in the sunshine will lead us into disaster, yet so far it’s made no difference.
If Whitty wanted to make a real difference he could suggest a ban on cheap processed meat?
Far be it for me to agree with Owen Jones, or go into bat for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but I’m inclined to agree.
I can only assume he was looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
She wasn’t fired for retweeting the article per se. She was fired because of the damage that keeping her would cause to the Labour Party. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason for firing anyone. If one of my employees retweeted something that might cause my organisation significant harm then dismissal would be an option. I fired someone for a twitter post myself once and have advised on several FB related dismissals that resulted in damage to an employer’s reputation.
She's not been fired like that. She's still a Labour MP.
Elected. You're big on that sort of thing aren't you.
If Starmer truly wanted to fire her he could withdraw the whip.
Splitting hairs. If you want me to clarify when I said "fired" I meant fired from her office of shadow education secretary. Which is still a dismissal. WIthdrawal of the whip is a separate issue.
I know what you mean. It's not a real dismissal. Not like organisations sacking people for causing significant harm to the organisation.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?
The Labour Party doesn’t pay her salary. She gets that just for being an MP. Starmer can’t kick her out of the Commons even if he withdrew the whip.
You are having a pointless argument about the semantics of the word “fired” with the wrong person. You clearly think she should have had the whip withdrawn as well as being fired from the shadow cabinet. That’s your prerogative. I have no dog in the fight as I am not a member nor a supporter of the Labour Party. He could have “fired” her in a very literal sense into the sun or out of a cannon for all I care.
I have to say, I think that would be slightly excessive.
But you never know. Has @Morris_Dancer had any requests from Labour for a loan of his cannon?
Well, yes but at least 149 further deaths recorded and there's little doubt in my mind the true death toll is well above 60,000.
Slight rise in the number of new cases as well - I've long been of the view we needed two weeks of deaths >100 and new cases >1000 before we substantially re-opened the economy but other considerations have taken precedence.
As for Bournemouth, so many have said for so long outdoor transmission is rare and the young are mostly free of risk but it's also a sign furlough has perhaps disproportionately affected or afflicted the young.
The question is whether two months of "business" will save these jobs - maybe, maybe not.
I'm curious as to what proportion of the country are:
1) Immediately joining the rush for shops / beaches / takeaways / pubs
Comments
Do you see this as enhancing Starmer's position or weakening it?
I love a bit of political drama - hence why I said 'It just gets better'
Starmer could come out of it stronger - but I think he needs to follow through with a more comprehensive purge.
But it could - if the Campaign Group get their act together (and that is a big if) -cause him a lot of trouble.
I believe that governments need strong oppositions - and so I hope this is the start of Labour dealing properly with those driven by hate who have infected their party.
But it is too early to say for certain whether this is the start of something more significant.
If you think that is a good thing, I would normally suggest you get your eyes tested, but I would be worried you would go for a drive.
There's a much closer parallel with the great man than that:
'We shall fight them .. on the beaches!'
You can theoretically bring a discrimination claim if you are an officer but there are a number of Parliamentary exemptions.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8460059/Cambridge-University-backs-academic-tweeted-White-Lives-Dont-Matter.html
I think if this were Cameron having trouble with Eurosceptics circa 2011/2/3 and having to fire them etc whilst the other Eurosceptics went crazy you'd have said it was a bad sign for the Tories being split
Secondly, education is a crisis area for the government both right now and over the coming months. The government is very vulnerable. Would you really want someone as stupid as RLB as your attack dog in this area?
I pity those who have to be taught by her. They ought to be able to refuse to have her as their tutor - just as she refuses to tutor others.
https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1276167676172394498?s=20
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/oregon-county-people-of-color-mask-trnd/index.html
Trump 1.09
Pence 26
Haley 80
Romney 200
Ryan 500
Brandenburg v. Ohio - seditious speech—including speech that constitutes an incitement to violence—is protected by the First Amendment as long as it does not indicate an "imminent" threat.
He also didn't profit directly from the deal (although as with all former Cabinet Ministers I'mm sure he will profit from it afterwards) but he did do an immediate favour for a party donor when the donor asked him to do so.
https://twitter.com/OpinionToday/status/1276150402170355718
What you suggests is overkill, especially when you condone undue influence in a major planning decision and backing an advisor who broke his own governments rules.
If a company sacks an employee for bringing the company into disrepute that doesn't really simply mean keeping them on at full salary but in a slightly lower profile role.
Yesterday RLB was a Labour MP. Today she still is. Same salary as she had yesterday. Same employer. Same organisation.
You specifically said that you fired someone for a Tweet. After you fired them did they still work for you? Did they still work in your organisation? Were they still claiming full salary and able to portray themselves still as a member of your organisation?
Looks like some who support defunding the police might end up getting defunded themselves.
4,186 vs 4,543 yesterday.
All usual slides here if anyone wants them:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences
Black line is 7 day trend line
Slight rise in the number of new cases as well - I've long been of the view we needed two weeks of deaths >100 and new cases >1000 before we substantially re-opened the economy but other considerations have taken precedence.
As for Bournemouth, so many have said for so long outdoor transmission is rare and the young are mostly free of risk but it's also a sign furlough has perhaps disproportionately affected or afflicted the young.
The question is whether two months of "business" will save these jobs - maybe, maybe not.
Whodathunkit?
If you wish to fire someone sack them from your organisation. That means removing the whip. Otherwise at worst they've been demoted.
Saying "no I'm not sacking this person" is more intellectually honest than saying "I've sacked her" when you haven't.
Letterboxes is entirely appropriate language and has nothing to do with race.
Rumours circling Westminster...
Tony Blair was elected MP in 1983 on a manifesto which opposed EEC membership and backed unilateral nuclear disarmament.
That's the thing about being a member of a political party - you can forget consistency and it's quite possible to support the bulk of the policies and disagree on one or to key ones.
I suppose it's whether you think parties should reflect public opinion and be led by it or stand on key principles and try to get the public to come to them.
Has Labour always been an anti-semitic party or did it become one under Corbyn? Starmer won the leadership election fair and square and he has to put his vision of the Labour party forward and eventually to the electorate.
One aspect of that is clearly a desire to rid the party of anti-semitism and that is to be welcomed - he has a lot more to do in many other areas to convince people he is ready to lead a Labour Government.
You are having a pointless argument about the semantics of the word “fired” with the wrong person. You clearly think she should have had the whip withdrawn as well as being fired from the shadow cabinet. That’s your prerogative. I have no dog in the fight as I am not a member nor a supporter of the Labour Party. He could have “fired” her in a very literal sense into the sun or out of a cannon for all I care.
If Whitty wanted to make a real difference he could suggest a ban on cheap processed meat?
"A government infected by racism"
Evidence please
But you never know. Has @Morris_Dancer had any requests from Labour for a loan of his cannon?
1) Immediately joining the rush for shops / beaches / takeaways / pubs
2) Cowering in their own homes
3) Going along pretty much as normal