politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If the trend in the ComRes marginals’ surveys is seen in Lo
Comments
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BBC breaking news:
"Police officer dismissed from Met for gross misconduct after investigation into "plebgate" row"
The body count rises.0 -
And as usual when you have completely lost the argument, you ignore my point and the evidence I provide.Richard_Tyndall said:I love the way that when you are losing the argument you revert to calling a view held by close to half the population 'extreme'. It just highlights everything that is wrong with you and the Tory party when it comes to your disdain for the public.
One more time - I expect you'll run away now - how do your reconcile your statement upthread that "Yep and that was when he was pushing Eurosceptic agenda. He has changed his tune since then. " with the two speeches I have linked to from the time?0 -
There are things that don't quite ring true - such as taking a photo of your injury before seeking appropriate medical treatment.Socrates said:
I don't believe this is true. His cheek bone doesn't look broken and the fact the attackers are Muslim just seems too convenient.
But if the Police are involved (as would appear to be the case), it would be a very extreme act to inflict such an injury on yourself to try to get a few more votes.
It sounds like a dispute between neighbours rather than a political act - but we shall see.0 -
M'Lud will be on in a tinkle to remind us all that this should not influence the verdict/judgement in The Sun/Toby Rowland vs. Mitchell defamation case.antifrank said:BBC breaking news:
"Police officer dismissed from Met for gross misconduct after investigation into "plebgate" row"
The body count rises.
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It happens. This one turned out to be self-inflicted:oxfordsimon said:
There are things that don't quite ring true - such as taking a photo of your injury before seeking appropriate medical treatment.Socrates said:
I don't believe this is true. His cheek bone doesn't look broken and the fact the attackers are Muslim just seems too convenient.
But if the Police are involved (as would appear to be the case), it would be a very extreme act to inflict such an injury on yourself to try to get a few more votes.
It sounds like a dispute between neighbours rather than a political act - but we shall see.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/b-carved-in-mccain-supporters-face0 -
One of the comments on Guido (so caveats etc).SouthamObserver said:
Or neighbours falling out?TheWatcher said:
But is that incident political or religious?SeanT said:Intriguing/disturbing story in Guido.
http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/
Who knows if it is true?
What's undeniable is that the way UKIP are being smeared is going to end with UKIPers being beaten/knifed etc.
“If these reports are correct, those who have demonised UKIP share responsibility for this…”
"Well yes, we know.
According to Noel Mathews, one of our NW coordinators up here, it’s not certain that politics were at the bottom of this, however Bobby certainly feels Labour hate played a role.
I’ve been expecting blood all the way through this – well there you are."
FrankFisher0 -
I did the Euro prediction thing yesterday. From memory I think I went:
Lab 25%
Ukip 25%
Con 19%
Green 10%
Lib Dem 8%
Sitting on the fence as ever.0 -
I didn't say it was the membership triggering the ballot. Obviously it's the MPs, but the members can put pressure on the MPsRichard_Tyndall said:
No they cannot. There is no mechanism for the party membership to launch a leadership challenge. That can only be done by the Parliamentary party.Charles said:
If they don't believe that he represents the party as a whole they can replace him.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yep and that was when he was pushing Eurosceptic agenda. He has changed his tune since then.Charles said:
A majority of the membership voted for Cameron.Richard_Tyndall said:
many of us would consider that is exactly what is happening now. A small band of Cameroons holding the rest of the party to ransom over the EU question. It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.DavidL said:
My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.JamesM said:@SouthamObserver
Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.
Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.
If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
Of course there is also the fact that Tory party membership has almost halved since that vote.
There is no 'holding to ransom' in the Conservative party. It's very easy to trigger a ballot on Cameron's leadership.
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Good afternoon everyone. It's getting exciting now, with the election only hours away.
Off/topic:
My broadband speed has just increased by a factor of 80. Just shows how slow it was before.0 -
Top reply Mr Tyndall.Richard_Tyndall said:
I would suggest that the extremists are the Europhiles like yourself who continue to parrot the myth that EU membership has been good for our economy and our country in spite of the growing evidence to the contrary.DavidL said:
In my view an extreme Eurosceptic is someone who does not look at the EU coolly and rationally and decide whether or not it is in the national interest but is instead obsessed with constitutional principles which they consider more important. It is someone who refuses to see the benefits of co-operation with our main trading partners if it impacts upon our ability to go our own way. It is someone who refuses to accept that it is an inevitable consequence of a single market that there has to be a common set of rules that can be enforced against us as well as for us in making that common market work.Socrates said:
What's an "extreme eurosceptic", someone who would like to replace EU membership with a trade agreement, like half the country?DavidL said:The problem the tory leadership has is that there is a huge backlog of extreme Euro sceptics on the back benches appointed when that was the only way to get selected. This has caused a lot of problems in this Parliament and will cause even more if the tories were to win the next election with a wafer thin majority (something I still think very unlikely if no longer impossible).
The boundaries of all of these issues are a matter of legitimate debate and I for one would want them drawn differently from where they are now but the extreme Eurosceptic simply does not have a balanced view of these matters.
In my opinion of course! Feel free to continue disagreeing!
It is someone who tries to pretend we can be 'in Europe not run by Europe' or that we can have any meaningful renegotiation of our terms of membership that will satisfy the large majority of the British public who are unhappy with the current relationship.
In short the Europhiles in the Tory party are fundamentally dishonest.
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How much are Labour paying Axelrod....they bought a very early Christmas Turkey..0
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In which case it was a straw man argument on your part since I had specifically been referring to the membership not the MPs in my previous comments.Charles said:
I didn't say it was the membership triggering the ballot. Obviously it's the MPs, but the members can put pressure on the MPsRichard_Tyndall said:
No they cannot. There is no mechanism for the party membership to launch a leadership challenge. That can only be done by the Parliamentary party.Charles said:
If they don't believe that he represents the party as a whole they can replace him.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yep and that was when he was pushing Eurosceptic agenda. He has changed his tune since then.Charles said:
A majority of the membership voted for Cameron.Richard_Tyndall said:
many of us would consider that is exactly what is happening now. A small band of Cameroons holding the rest of the party to ransom over the EU question. It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.DavidL said:
My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.JamesM said:@SouthamObserver
Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.
Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.
If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
Of course there is also the fact that Tory party membership has almost halved since that vote.
There is no 'holding to ransom' in the Conservative party. It's very easy to trigger a ballot on Cameron's leadership.0 -
Sorry to tell you but this is a losing entry. Allowing for the Nats, etc winning approx 6%, you are around 7% short of a 100% total.FrankBooth said:I did the Euro prediction thing yesterday. From memory I think I went:
Lab 25%
Ukip 25%
Con 19%
Green 10%
Lib Dem 8%
Sitting on the fence as ever.0 -
IIRC, both Clegg and Cameron were smokers, and always trying to kick the habit. I suspect their photo op nightmare was getting caught having a fly fag on the campaign trail.
BobaFett said:Bacon-gate is a new low in the papers' election coverage. Is this what passes for news nowadays??
Tomorrow David Cameron 'caught' eating chips. Nick Clegg snatched munching crisps. Nigel Farage spotted with glass of wine.0 -
While DC is clearly unpopular with the kippers, he does get very high approval ratings with Conservative supporters, who poll in the low to mid 30's.
I voted tory in 2010 for vey much the same reasons that you did not.
I do not feear the kippers, but while significant their support is in a minority. Like the Tea Party Republicans they prefer ideological purity to being in government. Kippers inflict their own miseries.Tykejohnno said:
Top reply Mr Tyndall.Richard_Tyndall said:
I would suggest that the extremists are the Europhiles like yourself who continue to parrot the myth that EU membership has been good for our economy and our country in spite of the growing evidence to the contrary.DavidL said:
In my view an extreme Eurosceptic is someone who does not look at the EU coolly and rationally and decide whether or not it is in the national interest but is instead obsessed with constitutional principles which they consider more important. It is someone who refuses to see the benefits of co-operation with our main trading partners if it impacts upon our ability to go our own way. It is someone who refuses to accept that it is an inevitable consequence of a single market that there has to be a common set of rules that can be enforced against us as well as for us in making that common market work.Socrates said:
What's an "extreme eurosceptic", someone who would like to replace EU membership with a trade agreement, like half the country?DavidL said:The problem the tory leadership has is that there is a huge backlog of extreme Euro sceptics on the back benches appointed when that was the only way to get selected. This has caused a lot of problems in this Parliament and will cause even more if the tories were to win the next election with a wafer thin majority (something I still think very unlikely if no longer impossible).
The boundaries of all of these issues are a matter of legitimate debate and I for one would want them drawn differently from where they are now but the extreme Eurosceptic simply does not have a balanced view of these matters.
In my opinion of course! Feel free to continue disagreeing!
It is someone who tries to pretend we can be 'in Europe not run by Europe' or that we can have any meaningful renegotiation of our terms of membership that will satisfy the large majority of the British public who are unhappy with the current relationship.
In short the Europhiles in the Tory party are fundamentally dishonest.0 -
There wasn't any Nat figure for the prediction contest.peter_from_putney said:
Sorry to tell you but this is a losing entry. Allowing for the Nats, etc winning approx 6%, you are around 7% short of a 100% total.FrankBooth said:I did the Euro prediction thing yesterday. From memory I think I went:
Lab 25%
Ukip 25%
Con 19%
Green 10%
Lib Dem 8%
Sitting on the fence as ever.0 -
The press love an opportunity to make Ed look like a weirdy goofball, and he is happy to oblige by displaying his weirdness at any moment. Anyway. He's supposed to be a modern man, Justine should be buying him flowers, my girlfriend was buying me flowers in the 90s, and I'm a right ratbag.
I was so keen to get the freshest flowers for my rose that I had to stop and be photographed choking on a bacon butty. Love you, honey, but not as much as I love public humiliation.
Does it matter? That all depends, the greatest disaster we never had, Neil cash in the bank Kinnock never recovered from falling in the sea, and reinforced that with his Sheffield shoutout. He was a twit. Miliband is worse, he's a walking joke, and he can't help himself but to prove it.
As for the marginals.... What did we expect? There is almost no Tory to Labour movement in the polls, and unless UKIP jump the shark, Labour must 'do something' or go backwards as swing back takes hold. The nurse might be a hard b!tch, but the electorate are going to start clinging to her regardless.0 -
Top reply, Dr. Sox.foxinsoxuk said:
While DC is clearly unpopular with the kippers, he does get very high approval ratings with Conservative supporters, who poll in the low to mid 30's.
I voted tory in 2010 for vey much the same reasons that you did not.
I do not feear the kippers, but while significant their support is in a minority. Like the Tea Party Republicans they prefer ideological purity to being in government. Kippers inflict their own miseries.Tykejohnno said:
Top reply Mr Tyndall.Richard_Tyndall said:
I would suggest that the extremists are the Europhiles like yourself who continue to parrot the myth that EU membership has been good for our economy and our country in spite of the growing evidence to the contrary.DavidL said:
In my view an extreme Eurosceptic is someone who does not look at the EU coolly and rationally and decide whether or not it is in the national interest but is instead obsessed with constitutional principles which they consider more important. It is someone who refuses to see the benefits of co-operation with our main trading partners if it impacts upon our ability to go our own way. It is someone who refuses to accept that it is an inevitable consequence of a single market that there has to be a common set of rules that can be enforced against us as well as for us in making that common market work.Socrates said:
What's an "extreme eurosceptic", someone who would like to replace EU membership with a trade agreement, like half the country?DavidL said:The problem the tory leadership has is that there is a huge backlog of extreme Euro sceptics on the back benches appointed when that was the only way to get selected. This has caused a lot of problems in this Parliament and will cause even more if the tories were to win the next election with a wafer thin majority (something I still think very unlikely if no longer impossible).
The boundaries of all of these issues are a matter of legitimate debate and I for one would want them drawn differently from where they are now but the extreme Eurosceptic simply does not have a balanced view of these matters.
In my opinion of course! Feel free to continue disagreeing!
It is someone who tries to pretend we can be 'in Europe not run by Europe' or that we can have any meaningful renegotiation of our terms of membership that will satisfy the large majority of the British public who are unhappy with the current relationship.
In short the Europhiles in the Tory party are fundamentally dishonest.0 -
Nonsense. He never claimed to want to take us out of the EU, if that's how you define 'Eurosceptic'. He has always been clear that he wants reform, not exit.Socrates said:
I don't see why moderate centre-rightness needs to mean Europhile. He definitely did advertise the fact he was on the eurosceptic side of the argument. Now he's leaking stories to the Guardian to smear actual eurosceptics as racists.
And the idea that Cameron has been "leaking stories to the Guardian to smear actual eurosceptics as racists" is tin-foil hat crazy. Quite apart from anything else, why on earth would he, or CCHQ, choose the Guardian?And he did lie about being a liberal too. No liberal believes the security services should grab the content of millions of private communications without any warrant or probable cause.
That is just you projecting your views on to a word. What he actually said in 2005 (second of my links) was:
The fifth big challenge is national and international security.
...
And we need to look at the problems of international terrorism, and I can promise that I will never play politics with that issue, I will do what is right for the country.
Which is entirely consistent with what he this government is doing. I believe you take the view the intelligence services should not have the powers they say they need to protect us, even if that means innocent British citizens might be killed from time to time. It's a respectable, if very much minority, view, but it's not one Cameron has ever given any indication of holding.
In other words: the charge that he is a 'fraud' is just bonkers. He has been entirely consistent. You just happen to disagree with some aspects of what he has consistently said.
Personally I tend to agree with his positions on most issues, and certainly on the major ones. That's one reason why I joined the Conservative Party after he became leader, and I am pleased that he has been so consistent.0 -
UKIP support was 3% at the 2010 election, 22% at the 2013 local elections, and is predicted to be >30% at tomorrow's EU Parliament elections.foxinsoxuk said:While DC is clearly unpopular with the kippers, he does get very high approval ratings with Conservative supporters, who poll in the low to mid 30's.
I voted tory in 2010 for vey much the same reasons that you did not.
I do not feear the kippers, but while significant their support is in a minority. Like the Tea Party Republicans they prefer ideological purity to being in government. Kippers inflict their own miseries.Tykejohnno said:
Top reply Mr Tyndall.Richard_Tyndall said:
I would suggest that the extremists are the Europhiles like yourself who continue to parrot the myth that EU membership has been good for our economy and our country in spite of the growing evidence to the contrary.DavidL said:
In my view an extreme Eurosceptic is someone who does not look at the EU coolly and rationally and decide whether or not it is in the national interest but is instead obsessed with constitutional principles which they consider more important. It is someone who refuses to see the benefits of co-operation with our main trading partners if it impacts upon our ability to go our own way. It is someone who refuses to accept that it is an inevitable consequence of a single market that there has to be a common set of rules that can be enforced against us as well as for us in making that common market work.Socrates said:
What's an "extreme eurosceptic", someone who would like to replace EU membership with a trade agreement, like half the country?DavidL said:The problem the tory leadership has is that there is a huge backlog of extreme Euro sceptics on the back benches appointed when that was the only way to get selected. This has caused a lot of problems in this Parliament and will cause even more if the tories were to win the next election with a wafer thin majority (something I still think very unlikely if no longer impossible).
The boundaries of all of these issues are a matter of legitimate debate and I for one would want them drawn differently from where they are now but the extreme Eurosceptic simply does not have a balanced view of these matters.
In my opinion of course! Feel free to continue disagreeing!
It is someone who tries to pretend we can be 'in Europe not run by Europe' or that we can have any meaningful renegotiation of our terms of membership that will satisfy the large majority of the British public who are unhappy with the current relationship.
In short the Europhiles in the Tory party are fundamentally dishonest.
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....... and always in toast.SandyRentool said:Given a choice, I will always opt for a sausage sandwich rather than bacon. No issues over nasty bits of rind, or the situation where you don't properly bite through the slice of bacon and it ends up flapping out of your mouth like a tongue.
Oh, and always brown sauce on a sausage sandwich (just in case Danny Baker is reading the site this morning!).0 -
I don't have to 'reconcile' them. Prior to 2005 Cameron was in favour of withdrawal from the CFP. Two years after his election he ditched that policy resulting in the resignation of the Scottish Tory Fisheries spokesman. He and his coterie consistently pushed the line prior to 2010 that they would 'not let matters rest' regarding the Lisbon treaty. They have done absolutely nothing since then on the issue. Cameron made such great play about opting out of the EU crime and policing measures and is now in the process of accepting all the significant measures in a way that will give the EU more rather than less power over the police and criminal justice systems than they had before.Richard_Nabavi said:
And as usual when you have completely lost the argument, you ignore my point and the evidence I provide.Richard_Tyndall said:I love the way that when you are losing the argument you revert to calling a view held by close to half the population 'extreme'. It just highlights everything that is wrong with you and the Tory party when it comes to your disdain for the public.
One more time - I expect you'll run away now - how do your reconcile your statement upthread that "Yep and that was when he was pushing Eurosceptic agenda. He has changed his tune since then. " with the two speeches I have linked to from the time?
Of course I don't expect a party fanatic like yourself to accept that your leader is a mendacious misanthrope who distrusts his fellow countrymen so much that he resorts to lies and deceit to get himself elected but that is the reality of the man who you fawn over.0 -
Anti UKIP media who have gone well over the top, smearing away,happy now -
UKIP Candidate ‘Stabbed By Labour Supporters’
http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/0 -
241 entries in the Euro prediction competition.0
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How long before Ed is forced to indulge his pig habit in ever greasier back street cafés?
Will the press uncover his bacon pusher before the cholesterol takes hold? Are Labour using 'coffee and a Danish' meetings to cover up a more sinister addiction to streaky in the great leader?
His bacon might get cut with luncheon meat, or Haslet. Something must be done.0 -
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Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope. You want it to be.Charles said:
In which case it was a straw man argument on your part since I had specifically been referring to the membership not the MPs in my previous comments.Richard_Tyndall said:
I didn't say it was the membership triggering the ballot. Obviously it's the MPs, but the members can put pressure on the MPsCharles said:
No they cannot. There is no mechanism for the party membership to launch a leadership challenge. That can only be done by the Parliamentary party.Richard_Tyndall said:
If they don't believe that he represents the party as a whole they can replace him.Charles said:
Yep and that was when he was pushing Eurosceptic agenda. He has changed his tune since then.Richard_Tyndall said:
A majority of the membership voted for Cameron.DavidL said:many of us would consider that is exactly what is happening now. A small band of Cameroons holding the rest of the party to ransom over the EU question. It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.
Of course there is also the fact that Tory party membership has almost halved since that vote.
There is no 'holding to ransom' in the Conservative party. It's very easy to trigger a ballot on Cameron's leadership.
If the membership is unhappy they can put pressure on their respective MPs. If sufficient members are unhappy and they are sufficiently persuasive then enough MPs would write to Graham Brady and trigger a ballot.
The fact is that Cameron is broadly eurosceptic, but of a more moderate nature than your virulent approach. And the majority of the party, whether MPs or normal members, are comfortable with that.
You wish it were otherwise, but it is isn't. In fact you are one of the obsessives that I had in mind downthread, but decided not to name. Which explains why you are a member of UKIP rather than making a rationale assessment of the situation and calculating how best to achieve your objectives.0 -
Perhaps best to wait until any court case is completed ?Tykejohnno said:Anti UKIP media who have gone well over the top, smearing away,happy now -
UKIP Candidate ‘Stabbed By Labour Supporters’
http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/0 -
You are sounding completely mad, I'm afraid. They are not letting matters rest: they are planning a renegotiation and a referendum by the end of 2017.Richard_Tyndall said:He and his coterie consistently pushed the line prior to 2010 that they would 'not let matters rest' regarding the Lisbon treaty. They have done absolutely nothing since then on the issue.
If you really are so blind as not to accept that completely obvious point, I don't think I can help.0 -
Sunil_Prasannan said:
There wasn't any Nat figure for the prediction contest.peter_from_putney said:
Sorry to tell you but this is a losing entry. Allowing for the Nats, etc winning approx 6%, you are around 7% short of a 100% total.FrankBooth said:I did the Euro prediction thing yesterday. From memory I think I went:
Lab 25%
Ukip 25%
Con 19%
Green 10%
Lib Dem 8%
Sitting on the fence as ever.
Er ..... no Sunil there wasn't, but one has to allow for the notional % the Nats will win in order to arrive at the % vote for each of the parties which were included ..... geddit?
Aren't you a Doctor?
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To go out on a limb, I don't think politics was at the bottom of it.Tykejohnno said:Anti UKIP media who have gone well over the top, smearing away,happy now -
UKIP Candidate ‘Stabbed By Labour Supporters’
http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/0 -
In what way is ceding more power to the EU 'Eurosceptic'? That is oen hell of a strange dictionary you are reading from Charles.Charles said:
Nope. You want it to be.
If the membership is unhappy they can put pressure on their respective MPs. If sufficient members are unhappy and they are sufficiently persuasive then enough MPs would write to Graham Brady and trigger a ballot.
The fact is that Cameron is broadly eurosceptic, but of a more moderate nature than your virulent approach. And the majority of the party, whether MPs or normal members, are comfortable with that.
You wish it were otherwise, but it is isn't. In fact you are one of the obsessives that I had in mind downthread, but decided not to name. Which explains why you are a member of UKIP rather than making a rationale assessment of the situation and calculating how best to achieve your objectives.0 -
No money for the rozzers, ha De ha harrrrrrrrantifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-275044220 -
It would take a heart of stone not to find it amusing that a bunch of plod try to get into playing politics to protect police jobs, the end result being that a significant number, er, lose their jobs. And presumably their pensions?antifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27504422
"Plebgate" was one the PBTories got right. Bad smell about it all from very early on.0 -
You couldn't make this up.
Twitter
PoliticsHome @politicshome 6m
Police Federation delegate to Theresa May: “I have never had such an attack and a personal kicking [as your speech].
Joey Jones @joeyjonessky 6m
Police officer saying Home Sec is guilty of "bullying" the Fed itself, and politicising the argument.0 -
Quite.corporeal said:
To go out on a limb, I don't think politics was at the bottom of it.Tykejohnno said:Anti UKIP media who have gone well over the top, smearing away,happy now -
UKIP Candidate ‘Stabbed By Labour Supporters’
http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/0 -
How is waiting until after the next election which they probably won't win 'not letting matters rest'? You are delusional. And hopefully on Sunday you will be reflecting on how badly Cameron has misjudged the mood of the electorate.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are sound completely mad, I'm afraid. They are not letting matters rest: they are planning a renegotiation and a referendum by the end of 2017.Richard_Tyndall said:He and his coterie consistently pushed the line prior to 2010 that they would 'not let matters rest' regarding the Lisbon treaty. They have done absolutely nothing since then on the issue.
If you really are so blind as not to accept that completely obvious point, I don't think I can help.
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Mwahahahaha, go and catch some criminals you ridiculous plodsfitalass said:You couldn't make this up.
Twitter
PoliticsHome @politicshome 6m
Police Federation delegate to Theresa May: “I have never had such an attack and a personal kicking [as your speech].
Joey Jones @joeyjonessky 6m
Police officer saying Home Sec is guilty of "bullying" the Fed itself, and politicising the argument.
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And it looks like there will be no public funds for barristers to plead for them if they decide to appeal the decision.dyedwoolie said:
No money for the rozzers, ha De ha harrrrrrrrantifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27504422
And the kippers are worried about Cameron's liberal credentials!0 -
Given they have millions in their reserves (am sure I heard the figure £70m mentioned) - they should be paying back past grants!dyedwoolie said:
No money for the rozzers, ha De ha harrrrrrrrantifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-275044220 -
Maybe he did allow for it, just by a different method than you or I didpeter_from_putney said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
There wasn't any Nat figure for the prediction contest.peter_from_putney said:
Sorry to tell you but this is a losing entry. Allowing for the Nats, etc winning approx 6%, you are around 7% short of a 100% total.FrankBooth said:I did the Euro prediction thing yesterday. From memory I think I went:
Lab 25%
Ukip 25%
Con 19%
Green 10%
Lib Dem 8%
Sitting on the fence as ever.
Er ..... no Sunil there wasn't, but one has to allow for the notional % the Nats will win in order to arrive at the % vote for each of the parties which were included ..... geddit?
Aren't you a Doctor?
I'm a biochemist, BTW, not a 'doctor' doctor 0 -
I disagree - I think that 6% or so for Other Others is perfectly feasible. They had more than that last time around.peter_from_putney said:
Sorry to tell you but this is a losing entry. Allowing for the Nats, etc winning approx 6%, you are around 7% short of a 100% total.FrankBooth said:I did the Euro prediction thing yesterday. From memory I think I went:
Lab 25%
Ukip 25%
Con 19%
Green 10%
Lib Dem 8%
Sitting on the fence as ever.0 -
I know you are struggling, so it's probably a waste of my time to try to explain coalition politics to you.Richard_Tyndall said:How is waiting until after the next election which they probably won't win 'not letting matters rest'? You are delusional.
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"England and Wales's Police Federation will stop getting public funding from August, Home Secretary Theresa May says"antifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27504422
Oh good - If the Police Federation can afford to build a brand new £26m HQ with en-suite hotel, 11 grace and favour apartments, a swimming pool, luxury bar and a state of the art gym, they certainly do not need public money. - nothing to do with their overt politicisation!0 -
Yep. You Kippers think you're hard bastards? Watch this! ;-)AveryLP said:
And it looks like there will be no public funds for barristers to plead for them if they decide to appeal the decision.dyedwoolie said:
No money for the rozzers, ha De ha harrrrrrrrantifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27504422
And the kippers are worried about Cameron's liberal credentials!0 -
The top 5 parties in the 2009 elections received an aggregate 82.2% of the vote, compared to 87% in this @FrankBooth prediction.peter_from_putney said:
Sorry to tell you but this is a losing entry. Allowing for the Nats, etc winning approx 6%, you are around 7% short of a 100% total.FrankBooth said:I did the Euro prediction thing yesterday. From memory I think I went:
Lab 25%
Ukip 25%
Con 19%
Green 10%
Lib Dem 8%
Sitting on the fence as ever.
I don't think that is unreasonable.0 -
Surely Europhilia is a left-wing trait, not a Tory trait?Richard_Nabavi said:
I know you are struggling, so it's probably a waste of my time to try to explain coalition politics to you.Richard_Tyndall said:How is waiting until after the next election which they probably won't win 'not letting matters rest'? You are delusional.
0 -
She's gone soft: why wait until August?SimonStClare said:"England and Wales's Police Federation will stop getting public funding from August, Home Secretary Theresa May says"
0 -
Given that you and fellow Kippers think waiting for a white knight to lead the Con party into a referendum in 2022 is a rationale plan I think you are on shaky ground here..Richard_Tyndall said:
How is waiting until after the next election which they probably won't win 'not letting matters rest'? You are delusional. And hopefully on Sunday you will be reflecting on how badly Cameron has misjudged the mood of the electorate.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are sound completely mad, I'm afraid. They are not letting matters rest: they are planning a renegotiation and a referendum by the end of 2017.Richard_Tyndall said:He and his coterie consistently pushed the line prior to 2010 that they would 'not let matters rest' regarding the Lisbon treaty. They have done absolutely nothing since then on the issue.
If you really are so blind as not to accept that completely obvious point, I don't think I can help.0 -
Right, that's the workshy, the plod and teachers jumped on, who's left to get the Tory treatment next?
0 -
Why were the Police Federation, a trade union when all is said and done, receiving public money in the first place?
My understanding is that quite a number of police officers were and are allowed to carry out duties for the Federation whilst being in the employ of the Police, that is having their wages paid from the public purse. Whatever one's views about the rights or wrongs of this (which seems endemic in public services) isn't that enough?
What a weird world we live in.
0 -
Regarding Plebgate - I can assure you as a northern type that cops fitting people up isn't exactly a shocking revelation. Go ask a miner. Or scouser. The shock is that the victim was a Tory - it's usually normal working people on the receiving end.0
-
Betting post: David Cameron and Boris Johnson appeared at the Newark by-election. If there was any significant chance of the Tories not winning this seat, neither would have been seen there and risk being tainted with failure. You can get 4/9 with Stan James.0
-
Since coppers tend to vote Tory, this is attacking the party's own supporters while courting backbench votes in the next leadership election.SimonStClare said:
"England and Wales's Police Federation will stop getting public funding from August, Home Secretary Theresa May says"antifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27504422
0 -
For comparison, the aggregate total of the top 5 parties in the overall average of the prediction competition is 91.34%, which I think will prove to be too high, and yet is still nearly three percentage points below your own implied prediction.OblitusSumMe said:
The top 5 parties in the 2009 elections received an aggregate 82.2% of the vote, compared to 87% in this @FrankBooth prediction.peter_from_putney said:
Sorry to tell you but this is a losing entry. Allowing for the Nats, etc winning approx 6%, you are around 7% short of a 100% total.FrankBooth said:I did the Euro prediction thing yesterday. From memory I think I went:
Lab 25%
Ukip 25%
Con 19%
Green 10%
Lib Dem 8%
Sitting on the fence as ever.
I don't think that is unreasonable.0 -
On a lighter note - The much lauded (on here anyway) French railways have bought hundreds of new trains that are too wide and don't fit into the stations. Hundreds of millions of Euros are now having to be spent modifying the stations.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10845789/French-rail-company-order-2000-trains-too-wide-for-platforms.html0 -
We have no idea what will happen in the future beyond the fact that with Cameron in charge of the Tory party we will never leave the EU. That in itself is justification enough to desire his removal.TGOHF said:
Given that you and fellow Kippers think waiting for a white knight to lead the Con party into a referendum in 2022 is a rationale plan I think you are on shaky ground here..Richard_Tyndall said:
How is waiting until after the next election which they probably won't win 'not letting matters rest'? You are delusional. And hopefully on Sunday you will be reflecting on how badly Cameron has misjudged the mood of the electorate.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are sound completely mad, I'm afraid. They are not letting matters rest: they are planning a renegotiation and a referendum by the end of 2017.Richard_Tyndall said:He and his coterie consistently pushed the line prior to 2010 that they would 'not let matters rest' regarding the Lisbon treaty. They have done absolutely nothing since then on the issue.
If you really are so blind as not to accept that completely obvious point, I don't think I can help.0 -
I blame about 100,000 UKIP voters in 2010 who prevented the Tories getting a working majority. If they had elected a Tory Govt. you would have had just cause to belly-ache that there hadn't been a renegotiation and referendum by the next election.Richard_Tyndall said:
How is waiting until after the next election which they probably won't win 'not letting matters rest'? You are delusional. And hopefully on Sunday you will be reflecting on how badly Cameron has misjudged the mood of the electorate.
UKIP - taking heavy-calibre weaponry to their own feet since 2010....0 -
I am not struggling at all. Cowardly Cameron is very happy to hide behind Lib Dem skirts on this as it matches his own personal views. Your excuses are repetitive and tedious and no more believable than they were a year ago.Richard_Nabavi said:
I know you are struggling, so it's probably a waste of my time to try to explain coalition politics to you.Richard_Tyndall said:How is waiting until after the next election which they probably won't win 'not letting matters rest'? You are delusional.
0 -
That directly contradicts what Farage said this morning on the Today programme. According to him, UKIP really do want a referendum in the next parliament, in fact are desperate for one and would do a deal with the devil to get one.Richard_Tyndall said:We have no idea what will happen in the future beyond the fact that with Cameron in charge of the Tory party we will never leave the EU.
It's all getting very confusing.0 -
Kippers on course to win the EU elections under the dastardly Cameron - why doesn't he use his magic wizard dust he has saved for 2017 to bend the referendum.Richard_Tyndall said:
We have no idea what will happen in the future beyond the fact that with Cameron in charge of the Tory party we will never leave the EU. That in itself is justification enough to desire his removal.TGOHF said:
Given that you and fellow Kippers think waiting for a white knight to lead the Con party into a referendum in 2022 is a rationale plan I think you are on shaky ground here..Richard_Tyndall said:
How is waiting until after the next election which they probably won't win 'not letting matters rest'? You are delusional. And hopefully on Sunday you will be reflecting on how badly Cameron has misjudged the mood of the electorate.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are sound completely mad, I'm afraid. They are not letting matters rest: they are planning a renegotiation and a referendum by the end of 2017.Richard_Tyndall said:He and his coterie consistently pushed the line prior to 2010 that they would 'not let matters rest' regarding the Lisbon treaty. They have done absolutely nothing since then on the issue.
If you really are so blind as not to accept that completely obvious point, I don't think I can help.0 -
Beat Coppers maybe - the Police Federation? one word 'plebgate'DecrepitJohnL said:
Since coppers tend to vote Tory, this is attacking the party's own supporters while courting backbench votes in the next leadership election.SimonStClare said:
"England and Wales's Police Federation will stop getting public funding from August, Home Secretary Theresa May says"antifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-275044220 -
Publicans ? ;-)dyedwoolie said:Right, that's the workshy, the plod and teachers jumped on, who's left to get the Tory treatment next?
0 -
No. All the main Europhile steps have been taken by Conservative governments. Entry, Single European Act, ERM, Maastricht.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Surely Europhilia is a left-wing trait, not a Tory trait?Richard_Nabavi said:
I know you are struggling, so it's probably a waste of my time to try to explain coalition politics to you.Richard_Tyndall said:How is waiting until after the next election which they probably won't win 'not letting matters rest'? You are delusional.
0 -
Lol! We have nothing for em to jump on, we are all broke ;-)Tykejohnno said:
Publicans ? ;-)dyedwoolie said:Right, that's the workshy, the plod and teachers jumped on, who's left to get the Tory treatment next?
0 -
Mr. Mark, indeed. UKIP's approach to General Elections can be described charitably as naive, and more accurately as counter-productive to the point of stupidity.0
-
My views are consistent, so apologies if they are repetitive. As you will remember, I have been saying exactly the same thing since before the last election. In particular, we had a disagreement about the outcome of a referendum, and we have a bet on it. You now seem to accept I was right and that you will lose the bet if there is a referendum in the next parliament.Richard_Tyndall said:I am not struggling at all. Cowardly Cameron is very happy to hide behind Lib Dem skirts on this as it matches his own personal views. Your excuses are repetitive and tedious and no more believable than they were a year ago.
So, yes, I am happy to plead guilty to the charge of being consistently right.0 -
They're sitting on a cash pile of £70 million too.SimonStClare said:
"England and Wales's Police Federation will stop getting public funding from August, Home Secretary Theresa May says"antifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27504422
Oh good - If the Police Federation can afford to build a brand new £26m HQ with en-suite hotel, 11 grace and favour apartments, a swimming pool, luxury bar and a state of the art gym, they certainly do not need public money. - nothing to do with their overt politicisation!0 -
Beat coppers are the Federation.SimonStClare said:
Beat Coppers maybe - the Police Federation? one word 'plebgate'DecrepitJohnL said:
Since coppers tend to vote Tory, this is attacking the party's own supporters while courting backbench votes in the next leadership election.SimonStClare said:
"England and Wales's Police Federation will stop getting public funding from August, Home Secretary Theresa May says"antifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-275044220 -
The Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984 was a Tory measure, designed precisely to limit opportunities for police stitch-ups.RochdalePioneers said:Regarding Plebgate - I can assure you as a northern type that cops fitting people up isn't exactly a shocking revelation. Go ask a miner. Or scouser. The shock is that the victim was a Tory - it's usually normal working people on the receiving end.
0 -
Just for Richard Nabavi, a forthright view on the European Arrest Warrant:
“The Home Secretary would have to say, I am sorry. You may spend time rotting in a Greek or Spanish jail. Weeks may pass before you are even charged with an offence that is not a crime in this country. But there is nothing I can do about it.’"
and again
‘There certainly should be expeditious extradition arrangements between European countries but we should not get rid of fundamental protections. The House should include a backstop power for the Home Secretary in the Bill and then we should see what the European Court makes of it. We should not lie down meekly because Ministers signed things away in Europe without thinking them through and say that we have to go along with them with no further debate.’
Both are of course quotes from one David Cameron. The man who not only now agrees we should be part of the EAW but has accepted that the ECJ rather than British courts should have jurisdiction in the final decision over EAW disputes.
0 -
Because it gives them cover. It was reported in Private Eye just the other week. Here's is Hitchens answering some of your questions:Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. He never claimed to want to take us out of the EU, if that's how you define 'Eurosceptic'. He has always been clear that he wants reform, not exit.Socrates said:
I don't see why moderate centre-rightness needs to mean Europhile. He definitely did advertise the fact he was on the eurosceptic side of the argument. Now he's leaking stories to the Guardian to smear actual eurosceptics as racists.
And the idea that Cameron has been "leaking stories to the Guardian to smear actual eurosceptics as racists" is tin-foil hat crazy. Quite apart from anything else, why on earth would he, or CCHQ, choose the Guardian?
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2014/05/begging-the-guardian-ukip-and-car-crashes.html
That is just you projecting your views on to a word. What he actually said in 2005 (second of my links) was:Richard_Nabavi said:And he did lie about being a liberal too. No liberal believes the security services should grab the content of millions of private communications without any warrant or probable cause.
The fifth big challenge is national and international security.
...
And we need to look at the problems of international terrorism, and I can promise that I will never play politics with that issue, I will do what is right for the country.
Which is entirely consistent with what he this government is doing. I believe you take the view the intelligence services should not have the powers they say they need to protect us, even if that means innocent British citizens might be killed from time to time. It's a respectable, if very much minority, view, but it's not one Cameron has ever given any indication of holding.
Do you have any evidence at all that stealing content from people's private conversations has saved lives? You are entitled to believe that if the intelligence services request a power then it should be given, without any balance given to concerns about privacy and liberty. But you're certainly not a liberal if you do that. Didn't they want ID cards too? Why are ID cards an unacceptable infringement of people's privacy, but government employees viewing pictures of husbands and wives in states of undress in private webcam conversations acceptable? Because one is Tory policy and one is not. That's why.
0 -
BBC- 'Plebgate' police officer Susan Johnson dismissed
"A policewoman has become the fourth officer to be sacked over press leaks related to the "plebgate" affair.
A Metropolitan Police panel found PC Susan Johnson had breached standards of professional behaviour in relation to honesty and integrity.
PCs Gillian Weatherley, Keith Wallis and James Glanville had already been sacked for gross misconduct."0 -
Boriswatch:
http://www.retfordtimes.co.uk/Boris-Johnson-David-Cameron-tour-Newark-market/story-21119369-detail/story.html
"On the visit to Newark, Mr Johnson also stated that he would not be contesting the Louth seat at next year's General election.
He said: "I'm not standing - I am committed to being Mayor of London." "0 -
Kippers may poll 30% of a 35% turnout. About 10% of the electorate, and many of those polled are explicitly planning to return to other parties in 2010.
Kippers are a very vocal minority, but remain a small minority, much like the Tea Party in the States.
Personally I am not troubled by their own self-marginalisation, they alienate themselves.anotherDave said:
UKIP support was 3% at the 2010 election, 22% at the 2013 local elections, and is predicted to be >30% at tomorrow's EU Parliament elections.foxinsoxuk said:While DC is clearly unpopular with the kippers, he does get very high approval ratings with Conservative supporters, who poll in the low to mid 30's.
I voted tory in 2010 for vey much the same reasons that you did not.
I do not feear the kippers, but while significant their support is in a minority. Like the Tea Party Republicans they prefer ideological purity to being in government. Kippers inflict their own miseries.Tykejohnno said:
Top reply Mr Tyndall.Richard_Tyndall said:
I would suggest that the extremists are the Europhiles like yourself who continue to parrot the myth that EU membership has been good for our economy and our country in spite of the growing evidence to the contrary.DavidL said:Socrates said:
What's an "extreme eurosceptic", someone who would like to replace EU membership with a trade agreement, like half the country?DavidL said:The problem the tory leadership has is that there is a huge backlog of extreme Euro sceptics on the back benches appointed when that was the only way to get selected. This has caused a lot of problems in this Parliament and will cause even more if the tories were to win the next election with a wafer thin majority (something I still think very unlikely if no longer impossible).
The boundaries of all of these issues are a matter of legitimate debate and I for one would want them drawn differently from where they are now but the extreme Eurosceptic simply does not have a balanced view of these matters.
In my opinion of course! Feel free to continue disagreeing!
It is someone who tries to pretend we can be 'in Europe not run by Europe' or that we can have any meaningful renegotiation of our terms of membership that will satisfy the large majority of the British public who are unhappy with the current relationship.
In short the Europhiles in the Tory party are fundamentally dishonest.0 -
If there isn't a significant chance of the Conservatives losing there, why are they sending two of their stars there, rather than to a 2015 marginal seat?antifrank said:Betting post: David Cameron and Boris Johnson appeared at the Newark by-election. If there was any significant chance of the Tories not winning this seat, neither would have been seen there and risk being tainted with failure. You can get 4/9 with Stan James.
UKIP's last public meeting of this campaign was in Eastleigh, a 2015 UKIP target seat.0 -
Yes you will probably win that one. My mistake was to underestimate just what a complete lying scumbag Cameron would turn out to be. You obviously had a better handle on that.Richard_Nabavi said:
My views are consistent, so apologies if they are repetitive. As you will remember, I have been saying exactly the same thing since before the last election. In particular, we had a disagreement about the outcome of a referendum, and we have a bet on it. You now seem to accept I was right and that you will lose the bet if there is a referendum in the next parliament.Richard_Tyndall said:I am not struggling at all. Cowardly Cameron is very happy to hide behind Lib Dem skirts on this as it matches his own personal views. Your excuses are repetitive and tedious and no more believable than they were a year ago.
So, yes, I am happy to plead guilty to the charge of being consistently right.0 -
Erm, because the by-election is in Newark?anotherDave said:
If there isn't a significant chance of the Conservatives losing there, why are they sending two of their stars there, rather than to a 2015 marginal seat?antifrank said:Betting post: David Cameron and Boris Johnson appeared at the Newark by-election. If there was any significant chance of the Tories not winning this seat, neither would have been seen there and risk being tainted with failure. You can get 4/9 with Stan James.
0 -
So that they both can be associated with the glow of victory ?anotherDave said:
If there isn't a significant chance of the Conservatives losing there, why are they sending two of their stars there, rather than to a 2015 marginal seat?antifrank said:Betting post: David Cameron and Boris Johnson appeared at the Newark by-election. If there was any significant chance of the Tories not winning this seat, neither would have been seen there and risk being tainted with failure. You can get 4/9 with Stan James.
0 -
Not the wrong type of snow, but the wrong type of train?HurstLlama said:On a lighter note - The much lauded (on here anyway) French railways have bought hundreds of new trains that are too wide and don't fit into the stations. Hundreds of millions of Euros are now having to be spent modifying the stations.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10845789/French-rail-company-order-2000-trains-too-wide-for-platforms.html 0 -
As i have stated often in the past, Farage and I have differing views on many issues. Unlike you I do not consider uncritical sycophancy to a leader to be an asset.Richard_Nabavi said:
That directly contradicts what Farage said this morning on the Today programme. According to him, UKIP really do want a referendum in the next parliament, in fact are desperate for one and would do a deal with the devil to get one.Richard_Tyndall said:We have no idea what will happen in the future beyond the fact that with Cameron in charge of the Tory party we will never leave the EU.
It's all getting very confusing.0 -
An inverted pyramid of piffle!antifrank said:Boriswatch:
http://www.retfordtimes.co.uk/Boris-Johnson-David-Cameron-tour-Newark-market/story-21119369-detail/story.html
"On the visit to Newark, Mr Johnson also stated that he would not be contesting the Louth seat at next year's General election.
He said: "I'm not standing - I am committed to being Mayor of London." "0 -
The Tories will not lose Newark.anotherDave said:
If there isn't a significant chance of the Conservatives losing there, why are they sending two of their stars there, rather than to a 2015 marginal seat?antifrank said:Betting post: David Cameron and Boris Johnson appeared at the Newark by-election. If there was any significant chance of the Tories not winning this seat, neither would have been seen there and risk being tainted with failure. You can get 4/9 with Stan James.
UKIP's last public meeting of this campaign was in Eastleigh, a 2015 UKIP target seat.0 -
Gold star answer. :-)TGOHF said:
So that they both can be associated with the glow of victory ?anotherDave said:
If there isn't a significant chance of the Conservatives losing there, why are they sending two of their stars there, rather than to a 2015 marginal seat?antifrank said:Betting post: David Cameron and Boris Johnson appeared at the Newark by-election. If there was any significant chance of the Tories not winning this seat, neither would have been seen there and risk being tainted with failure. You can get 4/9 with Stan James.
0 -
A far bigger minority than the Party of In, however.foxinsoxuk said:Kippers may poll 30% of a 35% turnout. About 10% of the electorate, and many of those polled are explicitly planning to return to other parties in 2010.
Kippers are a very vocal minority, but remain a small minority, much like the Tea Party in the States.
0 -
http://www.polfed.org/documents/Final_Accounts_2012.pdfTheWatcher said:
They're sitting on a cash pile of £70 million too.SimonStClare said:
"England and Wales's Police Federation will stop getting public funding from August, Home Secretary Theresa May says"antifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27504422
Oh good - If the Police Federation can afford to build a brand new £26m HQ with en-suite hotel, 11 grace and favour apartments, a swimming pool, luxury bar and a state of the art gym, they certainly do not need public money. - nothing to do with their overt politicisation!
£70 million ? Are you sure ? Was £6.8m in 2012 according to these accounts.
The £26m HQ figure looks correct hough looking through that lot..0 -
The Harrogate branch of the kippers have invited twitter users to explain why they will be voting UKIP on Thursday.
Twenty one thousand tweets have been sent to date.
This is my favourite:
Felicity Morse @FelicityMorse
#WhyImVotingUkip David Cameron didn't wish me happy birthday
"Top 21 reasons" here: http://bzfd.it/1lPkuo80 -
Which you consider to be a non-contest. There are plenty of Conservative target seats to be courted.antifrank said:
Erm, because the by-election is in Newark?anotherDave said:
If there isn't a significant chance of the Conservatives losing there, why are they sending two of their stars there, rather than to a 2015 marginal seat?antifrank said:Betting post: David Cameron and Boris Johnson appeared at the Newark by-election. If there was any significant chance of the Tories not winning this seat, neither would have been seen there and risk being tainted with failure. You can get 4/9 with Stan James.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/conservative-targets/0 -
But do you disagree with Farage on this one? It is rather important, isn't it?Richard_Tyndall said:
As i have stated often in the past, Farage and I have differing views on many issues. Unlike you I do not consider uncritical sycophancy to a leader to be an asset.Richard_Nabavi said:
That directly contradicts what Farage said this morning on the Today programme. According to him, UKIP really do want a referendum in the next parliament, in fact are desperate for one and would do a deal with the devil to get one.Richard_Tyndall said:We have no idea what will happen in the future beyond the fact that with Cameron in charge of the Tory party we will never leave the EU.
It's all getting very confusing.0 -
You seem to have missed the point. I wasn't on this occasion, arguing about the merits of Cameron's position, I was merely pointing out that he has been consistent.Socrates said:Do you have any evidence at all that stealing content from people's private conversations has saved lives? You are entitled to believe that if the intelligence services request a power then it should be given, without any balance given to concerns about privacy and liberty. But you're certainly not a liberal if you do that.
As to the substantial point, yes of course there is plenty of evidence that security services can sometimes thwart terrorist attacks through intelligence gathering. No sane person - not even, I believe, Alan Rusbridger - disagrees with that. The question is where exactly the balance between civil liberties and protection against terrorist attacks and other dangers should be drawn. You are at one extreme on that position, which as I said is a respectable view, but not one widely held. There is a very good reason why governments throughout Western democracies want those powers of which you disapprove; it's not because they are all fascist crooks, it's because they've all been briefed on the risks.
That's not to say that there haven't been abuses by the security services. Getting the oversight right is an important but tricky thing to do.
Still, they got Abu Hamza. You approve of that, I believe.0 -
I agree with the fact that we want a referendum as soon as possible. I disagree with the idea that (if this is what Farage contends) it will be won as long as Cameron is still Prime Minister. But I am not sure Farage is actually saying that.JohnO said:
But do you disagree with Farage on this one? It is rather important, isn't it?Richard_Tyndall said:
As i have stated often in the past, Farage and I have differing views on many issues. Unlike you I do not consider uncritical sycophancy to a leader to be an asset.Richard_Nabavi said:
That directly contradicts what Farage said this morning on the Today programme. According to him, UKIP really do want a referendum in the next parliament, in fact are desperate for one and would do a deal with the devil to get one.Richard_Tyndall said:We have no idea what will happen in the future beyond the fact that with Cameron in charge of the Tory party we will never leave the EU.
It's all getting very confusing.
A referendum under a Labour government with a Tory party campaigning for Out will be a hell of a lot more winnable than one under a Tory government with Labour support for staying in.0 -
Apols if mentioned earlier
A £4.5m fraud trial halted due to disputes over legal aid cuts has been restarted after the court of appeal ruled that the defendants could receive a fair trial.
The ruling is a setback for the prime minister's brother, Alexander Cameron QC, who represented the men but will come as a relief to the justice secretary, Chris Grayling.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/may/21/fraud-trial-legal-aid-ruling-overturned-appeal-court0 -
'The Police Federation is sitting on £70 million of its members' money, far in excess of its operating costs, the Home Affairs Select Committee said'Pulpstar said:
http://www.polfed.org/documents/Final_Accounts_2012.pdfTheWatcher said:
They're sitting on a cash pile of £70 million too.SimonStClare said:
"England and Wales's Police Federation will stop getting public funding from August, Home Secretary Theresa May says"antifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27504422
Oh good - If the Police Federation can afford to build a brand new £26m HQ with en-suite hotel, 11 grace and favour apartments, a swimming pool, luxury bar and a state of the art gym, they certainly do not need public money. - nothing to do with their overt politicisation!
£70 million ? Are you sure ? Was £6.8m in 2012 according to these accounts.
The £26m HQ figure looks correct hough looking through that lot..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10835150/Police-officers-should-be-refunded-Federation-fees-MPs-say.html0 -
No, the Federation is a Union which represents the 127,000 'beat coppers' in England and Wales.DecrepitJohnL said:
Beat coppers are the Federation.SimonStClare said:
Beat Coppers maybe - the Police Federation? one word 'plebgate'DecrepitJohnL said:
Since coppers tend to vote Tory, this is attacking the party's own supporters while courting backbench votes in the next leadership election.SimonStClare said:
"England and Wales's Police Federation will stop getting public funding from August, Home Secretary Theresa May says"antifrank said:And in news no doubt wholly unrelated to Plebgate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27504422
That's not quite the same is it.0 -
@RichardTyndall
In what way is ceding more power to the EU 'Eurosceptic'? That is oen hell of a strange dictionary you are reading from Charles.
Eurosceptic = looking at each proposal scepitcally and making a decision about whether, or balance, it is in the UK's national interests to accept it or not.
There are clearly area where it makes sense to co-operate and equally clearly area it doesn't. (And, yes, many of the areas of co-operation could be achieved on aty basis). That's why the decision on whether to stay or go is finely balanced - and why I'd like to see if Cameron can renegotiate before I make an irreocable decision0 -
"...the public generally agree with Nigel Farage’s own assessment that UKIP is being victimised by “a political class” and “their mates in the media”. The majority (54%) of British adults agree with his statement"AveryLP said:The Harrogate branch of the kippers have invited twitter users to explain why they will be voting UKIP on Thursday.
Twenty one thousand tweets have been sent to date.
This is my favourite:
Felicity Morse @FelicityMorse
#WhyImVotingUkip David Cameron didn't wish me happy birthday
"Top 21 reasons" here: http://bzfd.it/1lPkuo8
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/05/20/voters-think-media-more-biased-against-UKIP/
I wonder how many of people will vote UKIP just to spite Westminster & media?
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Arf. Did you hear Nick Robinson's thoughts on the probability of this, on the Today programme?Richard_Tyndall said:JohnO said:
But do you disagree with Farage on this one? It is rather important, isn't it?Richard_Tyndall said:
As i have stated often in the past, Farage and I have differing views on many issues. Unlike you I do not consider uncritical sycophancy to a leader to be an asset.Richard_Nabavi said:
That directly contradicts what Farage said this morning on the Today programme. According to him, UKIP really do want a referendum in the next parliament, in fact are desperate for one and would do a deal with the devil to get one.Richard_Tyndall said:We have no idea what will happen in the future beyond the fact that with Cameron in charge of the Tory party we will never leave the EU.
It's all getting very confusing.
A referendum under a Labour government0 -
Prince Charles reaches agreement with College on Putin and the two issue a joint statement:
The Romanovs should return to their country of origin0 -
I've got a lot more confidence in the first question than the second question there.anotherDave said:
"...the public generally agree with Nigel Farage’s own assessment that UKIP is being victimised by “a political class” and “their mates in the media”. The majority (54%) of British adults agree with his statement"AveryLP said:The Harrogate branch of the kippers have invited twitter users to explain why they will be voting UKIP on Thursday.
Twenty one thousand tweets have been sent to date.
This is my favourite:
Felicity Morse @FelicityMorse
#WhyImVotingUkip David Cameron didn't wish me happy birthday
"Top 21 reasons" here: http://bzfd.it/1lPkuo8
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/05/20/voters-think-media-more-biased-against-UKIP/
I wonder how many of people will vote UKIP just to spite Westminster & media?
But doesn't O'Flynn have any mates in the media?0 -
Still, they got Abu Hamza. You approve of that, I believe.
Goodness, what do you want, a medal?
The speedy expulsion of Hamsa, his family and contacts at a low cost to the tax payer should have been within the power of any government that thinks its first duty is to protect its ordinary and tax paying citizens.
The government failed on all those counts - though admittedly some of the reasons were not their fault.0
