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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    Having just seen this article in the Standard, it is amazing that they are letting Ed out at the moment. Anyone with any knowledge of how things work would never allow a political leader to be seen eating like this in public.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband-tucks-into-a-bacon-sandwich-on-a-morning-trip-to-buy-flowers-for-his-wife-9407561.html

    There is no way to look dignified when scoffing a sarnie - and the photos make it look even worse!

    It is an old tradition. This was Bob Dylan in the early 60s

    Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote
    He's a-runnin' for office on the ballot note
    He's out there preachin' in front of the steeple
    Tellin' me he loves all kinds-a people
    (He's eatin' bagels
    He's eatin' pizza
    He's eatin' chitlins).

    The trick is not to look as if it is making you sick. Not quite there yet, is he?

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    UKIP's campaign finale, public meeting in Eastleigh is on YouTube. Mr Farage's speech starts 37m into the video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk5lo08hVK4&feature=share&t=37m02s
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    London local election results also show the impact of gentrification of Inner London, and de-gentrification of some suburbs.

    A typical map of party control by ward 25 years ago would show a red core (minus a small blue bit in the West End) surrounded by blue suburbs. Now the blue bit in Inner London has expanded into North Kensington, Hammersmith & Fulham, Battersea and Tooting. At the same time, blue suburbs, in places like North Croydon, Edmonton, Ilford, have turned red.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Bond, Miliband's on the record as saying he's not Jewish in a religious sense, so I don't see why him eating bacon sarnie is a story.

    Worth recalling he was wittering on nonsensically about being the first Jewish prime minister if he wins next year (forgetting the chap whose slogan he adopted), which was a bit odd, but there really isn't a story there.

    Not a Miliband fan, but there are plenty of legitimate grounds to kick him over.

    The Michael Howard ads were dubious, but we must remember, as Diane Abbott told us, white people like to divide and rule.
  • JamesMJamesM Posts: 221
    Apologies for the multiple posts, I tried to add this as an edit to my last post without success. In short, I wonder if the argument you are making @SouthamObserver is:

    * There may be voters who regard themselves as naturally conservative, but could not bring themselves to vote for the party due to a belief they were 'nasty' who may now see a supposedly 'nastier' option in UKIP and thus feel less worried about a Conservative Party vote.

    * While there are those who do not regard themselves as natural conservatives, but in seeing a party notionally to the right of the Conservative Party (questionable based on some UKIP policies) they again feel more comfortable voting Conservative, as they are not the most 'right-wing' party.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
    Plenty of Jews like bacon sandwiches. In Israel, pork is marketed to Russian Jews as "white steak."

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Pulpstar/TSE/isam, talk me through the result you are hoping for. Though this polling may help, I just can't see it at all (though I appreciate you don't need to see much at 100/1). I was one of those thinking the price should have been 1000/1 [prior to this polling].

    On this polling and at the current time the value looks like a Conservative Minority @ 13/2 (or take "Other" with WH @ 5/1). However I am increasingly throwing my lot in with Hodges and have reduced my liability on a Tory maj (I have been solidly backing NOM).

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    JamesM said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.

    My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.

    If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    JamesM said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.

    If the Tories can pass the "nasty party" baton over to UKIP, a party which seems very intent on taking it, they have a chance to connect with a lot of people who have instinctively seen themselves as anti-Tory because of the rhetoric and language the Tories so often use - especially when chasing UKIP votes. The opportunity for a Tory party that keeps its nerve is to find a new way of communicating with the electorate while leaving it to UKIP to focus on enemies within and without. "We're not nasty like UKIP, we're not naive and left-wing like Labour; we're realistic, pragmatic, reasonable and pro-aspiration" is a pretty good selling point. I won't buy it because I just don't see the world in a Tory way - I am a redistributionist, not a trickle-downer - but I think a lot of people could. I have found it very refreshing to see on here and elsewhere Tories condemning the language that UKIP uses about immigrants.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    Funny photos are good link-bait. Instagram was sold for USD 1 billion in 2012.

  • This morning's thread has prompted me to ask rcs1000 whether we can expect to see an all-singing, all-dancing updated version of VIPA his election seat prediction model which caused quite a degree of excitement in the run up to the 2010 GE and iirc ultimately proved to be quite accurate.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054

    Having just seen this article in the Standard, it is amazing that they are letting Ed out at the moment. Anyone with any knowledge of how things work would never allow a political leader to be seen eating like this in public.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband-tucks-into-a-bacon-sandwich-on-a-morning-trip-to-buy-flowers-for-his-wife-9407561.html

    There is no way to look dignified when scoffing a sarnie - and the photos make it look even worse!

    So much for that Jewish heritage...
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    DavidL said:

    antifrank said:

    An extreme Eurosceptic is one that believes that Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem politicians should be hanged by the neck until dead, and that their voters are guilty of aiding and abetting treason.

    That's a slightly narrower definition than I had in mind.

    Charles is nearer it in pointing out for the extreme Eurosceptic this is the dominating issue and for most of us it just isn't. Doesn't mean it is not important, doesn't mean we are happy with the status quo, doesn't mean we even rule out the idea of leaving the EU if it did not develop to our advantage. Just not the big overriding issue.

    Do many people have one big overriding issue? I that the number of people who think in those terms is very, very small. I would suspect that if I sat down with, say, Mssrs Observer, Brooke and Antifrank (or indeed an other three commentators here) we would very quickly agree on a list of the big issues that face the country. Where we would have difficulty in reaching agreement (though less I suspect than any of us might think) is the best way of tackling those issues.

    For me, whether to stay in or leave the EU fits into the second category of conversation. It belongs in potential solutions box and not the problems box. The problem with politics in the UK is that has moved away from parties competing against each other on the basis of alternative solutions to agreed problems to parties saying whatever they think will help them get power. Thus we have Tony Blair in 1997 saying (correctly) the fundamental issue in determining the UKs future prosperity is its education system and then in office his administration debasing that system even further in order to make it look like it was improving.
  • I am fascinated by brands and wonder if there is any example in other walks of life beyond politics of a brand that got a boost by default because it was looked at more positively in comparison to another?

    Ryanair and Easyjet?

    IIRC HM Samuel and Argos experienced a boost after Gerald Ratner described his own products as a bit Ed Miliband crap

    H Samuel was in fact part of the Ratner Group, although I'm not sure that was widely recognised at the time
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
    The anti-Semitic vote should neither be accepted nor neutralised. It should be confronted. If we're going to criticise UKIP for demonising immigrants then we should be equally critical of parties seeking to appeal to anti-Semites.

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Yougov's tables are up, showing that among those certain to vote, the scores are UKIP 30%, Labour 25%, Conservative 21%, Lib Dem 11%, Green 7%.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Funny photos are good link-bait. Instagram was sold for USD 1 billion in 2012.

    You would think that after yesterday's problems, his press team might have rethought this little jaunt.

    It would seem that the Labour press team have not come close to changing the narrative about their leader.

    Yes, it is funny to see someone struggling to eat a bacon sarnie - but the impression it makes (on top of the mistakes of yesterday) is not good. A decent press team would have not let it happen.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    DavidL said:

    JamesM said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.

    My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.

    If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
    many of us would consider that is exactly what is happening now. A small band of Cameroons holding the rest of the party to ransom over the EU question. It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.
  • I am fascinated by brands and wonder if there is any example in other walks of life beyond politics of a brand that got a boost by default because it was looked at more positively in comparison to another?

    Ryanair and Easyjet?

    IIRC HM Samuel and Argos experienced a boost after Gerald Ratner described his own products as a bit Ed Miliband crap

    Mercedes and Jaguar (in the bad old days).
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Sean_F said:

    WRT Camden et al, one of the curious features of Inner London is the existence of council-owned tower blocks, adjoining multi-million pound houses.

    Indeed. And while the big, multi-million pound homes house 4 or 5 people, those tower blocks are home to hundreds. And they are often tucked away, so it's only the houses that people notice.
  • Having just seen this article in the Standard, it is amazing that they are letting Ed out at the moment. Anyone with any knowledge of how things work would never allow a political leader to be seen eating like this in public.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband-tucks-into-a-bacon-sandwich-on-a-morning-trip-to-buy-flowers-for-his-wife-9407561.html

    There is no way to look dignified when scoffing a sarnie - and the photos make it look even worse!



    Man eats sandwich shock. Political dynamite.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466

    Pulpstar/TSE/isam, talk me through the result you are hoping for. Though this polling may help, I just can't see it at all (though I appreciate you don't need to see much at 100/1). I was one of those thinking the price should have been 1000/1 [prior to this polling].

    On this polling and at the current time the value looks like a Conservative Minority @ 13/2 (or take "Other" with WH @ 5/1). However I am increasingly throwing my lot in with Hodges and have reduced my liability on a Tory maj (I have been solidly backing NOM).

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government

    Yes, TP. I too am finding it very difficult to see where the value lies.

    Looking at that market is a bit like looking at a tricky eleven runner handicap. The more you study the form the more you are inclined towards 'no bet'. If pushed, I would opt for the Conservative minority but frankly there are better 13/2 chances running at Kempton this evening - Thumper in the 5.50pm, for example.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167
    Given a choice, I will always opt for a sausage sandwich rather than bacon. No issues over nasty bits of rind, or the situation where you don't properly bite through the slice of bacon and it ends up flapping out of your mouth like a tongue.

    Oh, and always brown sauce on a sausage sandwich (just in case Danny Baker is reading the site this morning!).
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    Sean_F said:

    Yougov's tables are up, showing that among those certain to vote, the scores are UKIP 30%, Labour 25%, Conservative 21%, Lib Dem 11%, Green 7%.

    FWIW Rounded up, my competition prediction for the Euros was UKIP 29%, Lab 26%, Cons 23%, LibDems 9% and Greens 8%.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    The fact that anyone would think there was anything notable, newsworthy or politically embarrassing about the Leader of the Opposition eating a bacon sandwich - whether competently or not - says much about what is wrong with the political class and the political commentariat these days.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    YouGov
    Q. "Generally speaking, do you think news media coverage of the following political parties has been biased in their favour, biased against them, or basically fair and balanced?"

    UKIP
    Biased in their favour: 13%
    Biased against them: 47%

    Q. "Do you agree or disagree that there is "a political class, clubbing together, using their mates in the media and doing anything they can to stop the UKIP charge”?"

    Strongly agree: 19%
    Tend to agree: 35%
    Total agree: 54%

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/x5w1emey23/YG-Archive-140520-Farage-Bias.pdf
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    DavidL said:

    JamesM said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.

    My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.

    If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
    It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.
    Do they, and are they? I'd like to see your 'working out'.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
    The anti-Semitic vote should neither be accepted nor neutralised. It should be confronted. If we're going to criticise UKIP for demonising immigrants then we should be equally critical of parties seeking to appeal to anti-Semites.

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    To be fair, the Standard didn't make the anti-semetic link.

    However, was does annoy me is that this was so clearly staged.

    According to the Standard, Miliband went to Covent Garden at 6.30 to get the freshest possible flowers for Justine.

    And he is then going straight on a 200 mile tour to promote small business.

    So either (a) the flowers are going to sit in the back of the car all day - rather defeating the point of getting the freshest ones; or (b) somebody else will give them to Justine - rather defeating the point of buying flowers for your wife!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    DavidL said:

    JamesM said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.

    My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.

    If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
    many of us would consider that is exactly what is happening now. A small band of Cameroons holding the rest of the party to ransom over the EU question. It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.
    A majority of the membership voted for Cameron.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Bacon-gate is a new low in the papers' election coverage. Is this what passes for news nowadays??

    Tomorrow David Cameron 'caught' eating chips. Nick Clegg snatched munching crisps. Nigel Farage spotted with glass of wine.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited May 2014
    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife.

    Hardly. The suggestion that he simply popped out to buy Mrs Milliband some flowers is laughable. He was on an arranged publicity tour of the market, and tried to eat a bacon sandwich to look more 'man of the people'.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    BobaFett said:

    Bacon-gate is a new low in the papers' election coverage. Is this what passes for news nowadays??

    Tomorrow David Cameron 'caught' eating chips. Nick Clegg snatched munching crisps. Nigel Farage spotted with glass of wine.

    None of that BobaFett dismissiveness.

    I remember tim et al being very excited about Osborne eat a burger
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Funny photos are good link-bait. Instagram was sold for USD 1 billion in 2012.

    snip

    Yes, it is funny to see someone struggling to eat a bacon sarnie - but the impression it makes (on top of the mistakes of yesterday) is not good. A decent press team would have not let it happen.
    I don't think the "press team" were on hand to intervene - we now live in an age of 'public media', were every man woman and child carries a camera with video recording ability (which is also sometimes used as a phone). - No politician or 'celebrity' for that matter is safe from going about their private life. - If Ed wants to go off piste, the best advice his team could give is teach him how to eat properly , without pulling weird faces.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Cyclefree said:

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    Actually he was doing neither. He was doing a photo-shoot.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2014
    UK elections are pretty much always won on the centre ground. The 1970s lefties lost the plot and Maggie was the sensible alternative. In 1997 the Tories looked tired and sleazy and Blair looked (and sounded) like a sensible alternative. In 2010 Labour was bankrupt (literally and policy-wise) and Dave looked like the sensible alternative.

    And 2015? Labour have, unimaginably, decided to go all hard-lefty, utterly abandoning the middle ground. And UKIP whose tanks were mustering at the edge of the middle ground have got a bit of a monstering lately and gone all nasty and extremist (whether true or not it's the perceptions that count). There is, I think, also a yellow party that nobody votes for but I forgot their name.

    Dave has the entire middle ground to himself.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Man eats sandwich shock. Political dynamite.

    In and of itself it is not political dynamite. But it is a series of photographs that a decent press minder would never have allowed to have been taken.

    No-one can look good eating like that. By allowing this to be a press event, it has made Miliband look odd. Now we know that this has been done before - the media love photos of a Miliband looking goofy. But on top of a media disaster yesterday, this should not have happened.

    It shows a basic lack of competence in the Labour press team.

    Miliband is not having a good week - and probably because those around him are not giving him the support, advice and briefings that someone in his position is entitled to expect.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    BobaFett said:

    Bacon-gate is a new low in the papers' election coverage. Is this what passes for news nowadays??

    Tomorrow David Cameron 'caught' eating chips. Nick Clegg snatched munching crisps. Nigel Farage spotted with glass of wine.

    To be fair, Dave has already give us Guinness-gate and Bass-gate. I don't know why any of them bother. They always end up looking ridiculous. The only one who doesn't is Farage, because it is clear he really does like going to the pub and having the odd fag.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Cyclefree said:

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    Actually he was doing neither. He was doing a photo-shoot.
    So? There are many sensible reasons for criticising Ed M. The fact that he looks like most of us when eating a sandwich - and no-one looks good when eating - is not one of them.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
    The anti-Semitic vote should neither be accepted nor neutralised. It should be confronted. If we're going to criticise UKIP for demonising immigrants then we should be equally critical of parties seeking to appeal to anti-Semites.

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    To be fair, the Standard didn't make the anti-semetic link.

    However, was does annoy me is that this was so clearly staged.

    According to the Standard, Miliband went to Covent Garden at 6.30 to get the freshest possible flowers for Justine.

    And he is then going straight on a 200 mile tour to promote small business.

    So either (a) the flowers are going to sit in the back of the car all day - rather defeating the point of getting the freshest ones; or (b) somebody else will give them to Justine - rather defeating the point of buying flowers for your wife!
    From the article -

    'This morning’s visit was staged to promote Mr Miliband’s pledge to help small firms by cutting rates and reforming the banks.'
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2014
    Debout la République (Arise the Republic)

    Wonderful article in EuroActiv France on how our older generation of politicians can inspire the young.

    It relates the story of a young French girl inspired by two MEPs to stand for election on behalf of a far right party in France.

    "At the time in 2007, I was working in a restaurant in Strasbourg. I met these two MEPs and we started talking about politics," she told EurActiv France.

    "The two Brits have no hierarchy and neither of them comes from a political background," she explained.


    Oh to have been a fly on the wall at this original chance encounter.

    More here for the terminally curious: http://bit.ly/1lOXw0o
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Charles said:

    BobaFett said:

    Bacon-gate is a new low in the papers' election coverage. Is this what passes for news nowadays??

    Tomorrow David Cameron 'caught' eating chips. Nick Clegg snatched munching crisps. Nigel Farage spotted with glass of wine.

    None of that BobaFett dismissiveness.

    I remember tim et al being very excited about Osborne eat a burger
    We had the Cornish pasty sensation too. Perhaps we could have a thread header on the role of snack food in this Parliament.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    JamesM said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.

    My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.

    If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
    many of us would consider that is exactly what is happening now. A small band of Cameroons holding the rest of the party to ransom over the EU question. It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.
    A majority of the membership voted for Cameron.
    Yep and that was when he was pushing Eurosceptic agenda. He has changed his tune since then.

    Of course there is also the fact that Tory party membership has almost halved since that vote.
  • SeanT said:

    Look at this photo of the Leadenhall Tower, aka the Cheesegrater.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/constructionchest/13464781935/

    London has become beautiful. It has beautiful skyscrapers and an exhilarating skyline. And it's all happened in a decade and a half.

    Yes, that's a great photograph and there are more wonderful buildings planned. London is a truly stupendous city!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Cyclefree said:

    So? There are many sensible reasons for criticising Ed M. The fact that he looks like most of us when eating a sandwich - and no-one looks good when eating - is not one of them.

    But no-one is criticising Ed M for looking like a dork when he eats a bacon sandwich. They are expressing surprise that, on a pre-arranged photo-shoot, his minders gave the press an opportunity to photograph him looking like a dork when eating a bacon sandwich.

    Would never have happened in Alastair Campbell's day.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    But no-one is criticising Ed M for looking like a dork when he eats a bacon sandwich. They are expressing surprise that, on a pre-arranged photo-shoot, his minders gave the press an opportunity to photograph him looking like a dork when eating a bacon sandwich.

    Would never have happened in Alastair Campbell's day.

    @joeyjonessky: Milibacon Latest! Moving pix of butty on everyone's lips http://t.co/k8eZoEjxk4. Note Labour aides' vain attempts to shield from cameras.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821


    Yep and that was when he was pushing Eurosceptic agenda. He has changed his tune since then.

    Garbage. He has been absolutely consistent right from the start.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
    The anti-Semitic vote should neither be accepted nor neutralised. It should be confronted. If we're going to criticise UKIP for demonising immigrants then we should be equally critical of parties seeking to appeal to anti-Semites.

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    It should be confronted, yes, but the point of the Michael Howard ads was to mobilise it - when it looked like being beneficial for Labour. Now it looks unhelpful, so the neutralisation strategy is being wheeled out: have your Jewish leader eat a bacon sandwich. In public.

    It proves to that demographic that he's not that Jewish, and does so at no cost. Anyone whos is frumm enough to tut-tut at Miliband eating a bacon sandwich doesn't think anybody, even including themselves, is properly Jewish anyway.
  • shadsyshadsy Posts: 289
    Ladbrokes' cut out and keep guide to betting on the European Elections.
    http://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/05/21/the-ladbrokes-euro-election-betting-guide/

    Might be helpful for any betting novices.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    SeanT said:

    Look at this photo of the Leadenhall Tower, aka the Cheesegrater.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/constructionchest/13464781935/

    London has become beautiful. It has beautiful skyscrapers and an exhilarating skyline. And it's all happened in a decade and a half.

    Yes, that's a great photograph and there are more wonderful buildings planned. London is a truly stupendous city!
    The best building in London is of course Kings Cross station - gateway to the North (via a publicly owned train operating company!).
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited May 2014
    Why is Ed Milliband eating bacon sarnies given that;

    A. It's processed meat - Cancer RIsk.

    B. It's full of salt - Heart Attack and stroke risk

    3. It full of fat - Heart attack, stroke and cancer risk.

    I thought Ed wanted to ban everything that taste's nice and force us all to eat musli?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. T, I think 'geek' has become significantly devalued as a weakness or term of abuse, given the rise of technology, gaming being bigger than Hollywood and comicbook superheroes dominating the silver screen.

    Miliband's problem is not that he seems to be a geek, but seems to possess, shall we say, an excess of intellectual self-confidence.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
    The anti-Semitic vote should neither be accepted nor neutralised. It should be confronted. If we're going to criticise UKIP for demonising immigrants then we should be equally critical of parties seeking to appeal to anti-Semites.

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    It should be confronted, yes, but the point of the Michael Howard ads was to mobilise it - when it looked like being beneficial for Labour. Now it looks unhelpful, so the neutralisation strategy is being wheeled out: have your Jewish leader eat a bacon sandwich. In public.

    It proves to that demographic that he's not that Jewish, and does so at no cost. Anyone whos is frumm enough to tut-tut at Miliband eating a bacon sandwich doesn't think anybody, even including themselves, is properly Jewish anyway.

    What is this anti-Semitic vote of which you speak? Why would it be happy to see Miliband eat a bacon sandwich? Isn't it more likely that a bacon sandwich is a pretty normal thing to have for breakfast and Labour wanted Ed to look pretty normal? Though, of course, they failed spectacularly.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Cyclefree said:

    So? There are many sensible reasons for criticising Ed M. The fact that he looks like most of us when eating a sandwich - and no-one looks good when eating - is not one of them.

    But no-one is criticising Ed M for looking like a dork when he eats a bacon sandwich. They are expressing surprise that, on a pre-arranged photo-shoot, his minders gave the press an opportunity to photograph him looking like a dork when eating a bacon sandwich.

    Would never have happened in Alastair Campbell's day.
    The fact that Labour are not using Alastair Campbell-style tactics is a plus, in my eyes.

  • SeanT said:

    Look at this photo of the Leadenhall Tower, aka the Cheesegrater.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/constructionchest/13464781935/

    London has become beautiful. It has beautiful skyscrapers and an exhilarating skyline. And it's all happened in a decade and a half.

    Yes, that's a great photograph and there are more wonderful buildings planned. London is a truly stupendous city!
    The best building in London is of course Kings Cross station - gateway to the North (via a publicly owned train operating company!).
    When a man is tired of London .......
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    My recollection is that postal votes account for around a third of votes.

    UKIP seems to be the only party with their freepost literature distributed to households prior to the postal vote papers arriving. The polls also showed UKIP peaking at the time the postal votes went out.

    Has anyone seen what proportion of each parties voters are postal voters?

    My experience is that it is Conservatives who have been best at getting their supporters registered as postal votes. If ex Conservatives are where UKIP are drawing 50% of their vote then past Conservative efforts will have helped UKIP sew up the postal vote well before polling day.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939

    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
    The anti-Semitic vote should neither be accepted nor neutralised. It should be confronted. If we're going to criticise UKIP for demonising immigrants then we should be equally critical of parties seeking to appeal to anti-Semites.

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    It should be confronted, yes, but the point of the Michael Howard ads was to mobilise it - when it looked like being beneficial for Labour. Now it looks unhelpful, so the neutralisation strategy is being wheeled out: have your Jewish leader eat a bacon sandwich. In public.

    It proves to that demographic that he's not that Jewish, and does so at no cost. Anyone whos is frumm enough to tut-tut at Miliband eating a bacon sandwich doesn't think anybody, even including themselves, is properly Jewish anyway.

    What is this anti-Semitic vote of which you speak? Why would it be happy to see Miliband eat a bacon sandwich? Isn't it more likely that a bacon sandwich is a pretty normal thing to have for breakfast and Labour wanted Ed to look pretty normal? Though, of course, they failed spectacularly.
    You'd have to ask Labour who the anti-Semitic vote is. it would the one they aimed their Michael Howard / flying pig / Fagin posters at.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2014

    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
    The anti-Semitic vote should neither be accepted nor neutralised. It should be confronted. If we're going to criticise UKIP for demonising immigrants then we should be equally critical of parties seeking to appeal to anti-Semites.

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    It should be confronted, yes, but the point of the Michael Howard ads was to mobilise it - when it looked like being beneficial for Labour. Now it looks unhelpful, so the neutralisation strategy is being wheeled out: have your Jewish leader eat a bacon sandwich. In public.

    It proves to that demographic that he's not that Jewish, and does so at no cost. Anyone whos is frumm enough to tut-tut at Miliband eating a bacon sandwich doesn't think anybody, even including themselves, is properly Jewish anyway.
    Whilst there is no doubt that a bacon buttie is non kosher, the powers that be have found it much more difficult to pronounce on turbot, the epicurean's favourite fish.

    After much discussion and many long reviews a compromise solution was reached.

    Pacific turbots (Pleuronichthys species) and Curlfin turbot or sole (Pleuronichthys decurrens) are ruled kosher. However, European turbot (Scophthalmus maximus or Psetta maximus) is *not* kosher.

    It is possible that banning of the European turbot was occasioned by the fact that farmed turbot is a major export of both Bulgaria and Romania.

    Not even College would dare be seen in public eating it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Cyclefree said:


    The fact that Labour are not using Alastair Campbell-style tactics is a plus, in my eyes.

    But they are, just not competently. This was supposed to be a man-of-the-people story, complete with a faked-up purchase of flowers for Justine. It didn't quite work out as planned, that is all anyone is saying. Laughing at failed political stunts is a great tradition.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2014
    I stand corrected - the whole thing was a contrived photo op by team Ed.

    Odd thing about the shoot is that Ed doesn’t even appear to be enjoying it #baconbuttiegate
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Putney, he visits Yorkshire, the most delightful place in England and the land which gave the world Constantine the Great and his mother, who discovered the True Cross?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
    The anti-Semitic vote should neither be accepted nor neutralised. It should be confronted. If we're going to criticise UKIP for demonising immigrants then we should be equally critical of parties seeking to appeal to anti-Semites.

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    It should be confronted, yes, but the point of the Michael Howard ads was to mobilise it - when it looked like being beneficial for Labour. Now it looks unhelpful, so the neutralisation strategy is being wheeled out: have your Jewish leader eat a bacon sandwich. In public.

    It proves to that demographic that he's not that Jewish, and does so at no cost. Anyone whos is frumm enough to tut-tut at Miliband eating a bacon sandwich doesn't think anybody, even including themselves, is properly Jewish anyway.
    Yes - and Labour were disgraceful doing that and just as disgraceful when they had Ken Livingstone mobilising (or appearing to) the anti-Semitic vote. Ed M has - to my regret - been far too quiet about confronting the members of his own party (some of them MPs such as J Corbyn) who have and continue to associate themselves with some very nasty anti-Semitic people, under the guise of reaching out to other minority communities. It is a stain on the Labour leadership that it has been so pusillanimous about confronting the anti-Semitism in its own ranks.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746


    Yep and that was when he was pushing Eurosceptic agenda. He has changed his tune since then.

    Garbage. He has been absolutely consistent right from the start.
    Absolutely consistent?

    http://youtu.be/kVTIOQ0xJow
  • Cyclefree said:

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    Actually he was doing neither. He was doing a photo-shoot.
    Yes, the bunch of flowers was the give-away.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    SeanT said:

    Look at this photo of the Leadenhall Tower, aka the Cheesegrater.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/constructionchest/13464781935/

    London has become beautiful. It has beautiful skyscrapers and an exhilarating skyline. And it's all happened in a decade and a half.

    Yes, that's a great photograph and there are more wonderful buildings planned. London is a truly stupendous city!
    The best building in London is of course Kings Cross station - gateway to the North (via a publicly owned train operating company!).
    When a man is tired of London .......
    I lasted 4 years!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    JamesM said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.

    My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.

    If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
    many of us would consider that is exactly what is happening now. A small band of Cameroons holding the rest of the party to ransom over the EU question. It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.
    A majority of the membership voted for Cameron.
    Yep and that was when he was pushing Eurosceptic agenda. He has changed his tune since then.

    Of course there is also the fact that Tory party membership has almost halved since that vote.
    If they don't believe that he represents the party as a whole they can replace him.

    There is no 'holding to ransom' in the Conservative party. It's very easy to trigger a ballot on Cameron's leadership.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Patrick said:

    UK elections are pretty much always won on the centre ground. The 1970s lefties lost the plot and Maggie was the sensible alternative. In 1997 the Tories looked tired and sleazy and Blair looked (and sounded) like a sensible alternative. In 2010 Labour was bankrupt (literally and policy-wise) and Dave looked like the sensible alternative.

    And 2015? Labour have, unimaginably, decided to go all hard-lefty, utterly abandoning the middle ground. And UKIP whose tanks were mustering at the edge of the middle ground have got a bit of a monstering lately and gone all nasty and extremist (whether true or not it's the perceptions that count). There is, I think, also a yellow party that nobody votes for but I forgot their name.

    Dave has the entire middle ground to himself.

    I'd revise the history a bit. Through the 70s and 80s there was a shift by both parties to the outer wings leaving a large gap between them. That was what triggered and allowed the sudden rise of the Alliance into that gap picking up ~25% of voters.

    Since the 90s, the presence of the alliance/Lib Dems as competitors on the inside flank of each party brought them close back together to protect that inside flank. And ever since we've had elections fought in the centre.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If you're going to be photoed eating a sandwich in public:

    1) Stand up. Hunching forward is not a good look, and makes you look very beta.

    2) Chomp don't nibble.

    Boris would have got this right instinctively.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Cyclefree said:


    The fact that Labour are not using Alastair Campbell-style tactics is a plus, in my eyes.

    But they are, just not competently. This was supposed to be a man-of-the-people story, complete with a faked-up purchase of flowers for Justine. It didn't quite work out as planned, that is all anyone is saying. Laughing at failed political stunts is a great tradition.
    So it was a crummy photo-shoot. Big deal.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    BobaFett said:

    Bacon-gate is a new low in the papers' election coverage. Is this what passes for news nowadays??

    Tomorrow David Cameron 'caught' eating chips. Nick Clegg snatched munching crisps. Nigel Farage spotted with glass of wine.

    To be fair, Dave has already give us Guinness-gate and Bass-gate. I don't know why any of them bother. They always end up looking ridiculous. The only one who doesn't is Farage, because it is clear he really does like going to the pub and having the odd fag.

    The Guinness photo that Tim always linked to was a classic, no denying that. Who'd be a politician?
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    Mr. Putney, he visits Yorkshire, the most delightful place in England and the land which gave the world Constantine the Great and his mother, who discovered the True Cross?

    Yes, and he realises London's not that bad after all.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited May 2014

    Absolutely consistent?

    Yep, for example this speech from 2005 which was what won him the leadership contest:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/oct/04/conservatives2005.conservatives3

    Or this one when he became leader:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4504722.stm

    The idea (which Richard T seems to believe) that Cameron posed as an extreme Eurosceptic or hid his centre-right, one-nation, Macmillan-style brand of Conservatism to win the Conservative leadership is completely barmy, another example of UKIP craziness. He was elected leader precisely because he promised to modernise the party and widen its appeal to the centre ground and to younger, socially liberal voters.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    SeanT said:

    Look at this photo of the Leadenhall Tower, aka the Cheesegrater.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/constructionchest/13464781935/

    London has become beautiful. It has beautiful skyscrapers and an exhilarating skyline. And it's all happened in a decade and a half.

    Yes, that's a great photograph and there are more wonderful buildings planned. London is a truly stupendous city!
    Why don't you move there then?

    (sorry: little dig at Putney, where my mother grew up once they sold up in Herstmonceux)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Why is someone doing a marginals poll whilst the country is gripped with Euro election 'fever'? By fever I don't of course mean excitement, more a confused state of not knowing quite where you are. I'm amazed by the number of people who think Ukip are on the verge of running the country. I understand Ashcroft's polling was done a while ago but what is ComRes up to? Perhaps ITV were looking for a story and the odd polls during the Euro campaign should provide one.

    I counted 7% for others in the ComRes poll. Seems a bit high - were these exclusively English marginals? Must be one or two in Wales with a small Plaid vote.

    It would be quite incredible for Labour to be 5% up nationally and 2% down in the marginals. Where are they putting on the votes? Reduced turnout? Unlikely given the rise of Ukip. In Tory heartlands? Sounds absurd. In their own heartlands? Possibly and it's not appreciated enough (or wasn't pre-Ukip) how disillusioned Labour heartlands were under Blair/Brown. But with so many Labour voters dissatisfied with Ed's performance are they really going to pile up huge majorities in places they'll win anyway? The nightmare scenario is a big swing to Labour in Tory/Lib Dem marginals where they are on a very low base at the moment. Previous polling has suggested this unlikely but the longer the coalition goes on the more likely those Lib Dem tactical voters are to break. Are there really enough of them though?

    All in all ComRes's marginals poll looks incompatible with their national polling. Their national polling has Labour at a similar level to most other pollsters' findings. The marginals poll look wrong.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    JamesM said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.

    My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.

    If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
    many of us would consider that is exactly what is happening now. A small band of Cameroons holding the rest of the party to ransom over the EU question. It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.
    A majority of the membership voted for Cameron.
    Yes, and how many years ago was that? 9, I believe. Not only that, but most of those who voted have left the Tory party.
  • Mr. Putney, he visits Yorkshire, the most delightful place in England and the land which gave the world Constantine the Great and his mother, who discovered the True Cross?

    Morris - I love Yorkshire too, that's why I have a home there ...... see you at Ilkley in July!

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    SeanT said:

    Look at this photo of the Leadenhall Tower, aka the Cheesegrater.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/constructionchest/13464781935/

    London has become beautiful. It has beautiful skyscrapers and an exhilarating skyline. And it's all happened in a decade and a half.

    Yes, that's a great photograph and there are more wonderful buildings planned. London is a truly stupendous city!
    The best building in London is of course St Pancras station
    Corrected it for you :)

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Cyclefree said:


    So it was a crummy photo-shoot. Big deal.

    It was a crummy photo-shoot after a very bad media day yesterday - a decent press team would not have allowed this to happen.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    antifrank said:

    If you're going to be photoed eating a sandwich in public:

    1) Stand up. Hunching forward is not a good look, and makes you look very beta.

    2) Chomp don't nibble.

    Boris would have got this right instinctively.

    Boris looks as if he's eaten the whole pig, not just a sandwich. And he'd have probably spilt fat down his clothes.

    Am off now. All this intense political theorising is making my brain ache.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    JamesM said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.

    My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.

    If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
    many of us would consider that is exactly what is happening now. A small band of Cameroons holding the rest of the party to ransom over the EU question. It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.
    A majority of the membership voted for Cameron.
    Yep and that was when he was pushing Eurosceptic agenda. He has changed his tune since then.

    Of course there is also the fact that Tory party membership has almost halved since that vote.
    If they don't believe that he represents the party as a whole they can replace him.

    There is no 'holding to ransom' in the Conservative party. It's very easy to trigger a ballot on Cameron's leadership.
    No they cannot. There is no mechanism for the party membership to launch a leadership challenge. That can only be done by the Parliamentary party.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963
    Have to profess bemusement over pigbuttygate. The accusation appears to be "he looks like a geek" because he is a geek. That's like saying "Farage looks angry" or Thatcher looked like a woman".

    Milliband is a geek. So the question is would people rather have a well meaning geek or a smarmy liar? I'd have thought after Blair then Cameron and Clegg people were sick of smug liars with punchable faces - they want "normal" which apparently is Farage. Isn't it ultimately going to come down to policy? The triumph of Thatcher is that most people are now self centered ignorant cretins only interested in I me mine. so it's going to be about policy after all.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
    The anti-Semitic vote should neither be accepted nor neutralised. It should be confronted. If we're going to criticise UKIP for demonising immigrants then we should be equally critical of parties seeking to appeal to anti-Semites.

    EdM was eating a bacon sandwich and buying flowers for his wife. Hardly a gaffe. Rather endearing in fact. Newspapers are being silly.

    It should be confronted, yes, but the point of the Michael Howard ads was to mobilise it - when it looked like being beneficial for Labour. Now it looks unhelpful, so the neutralisation strategy is being wheeled out: have your Jewish leader eat a bacon sandwich. In public.

    It proves to that demographic that he's not that Jewish, and does so at no cost. Anyone whos is frumm enough to tut-tut at Miliband eating a bacon sandwich doesn't think anybody, even including themselves, is properly Jewish anyway.

    What is this anti-Semitic vote of which you speak? Why would it be happy to see Miliband eat a bacon sandwich? Isn't it more likely that a bacon sandwich is a pretty normal thing to have for breakfast and Labour wanted Ed to look pretty normal? Though, of course, they failed spectacularly.
    You'd have to ask Labour who the anti-Semitic vote is. it would the one they aimed their Michael Howard / flying pig / Fagin posters at.

    It's a bit of a leap in my view to believe that Miliband eating a bacon sandwich is a pitch for the anti-Semitic vote. But we'll have to agree to disagree, I guess. Just as we'll have to agree to disagree that those 2005 posters were a deliberate pitch for the anti-Semitic vote.

  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,549
    GIN1138 said:

    Why is Ed Milliband eating bacon sarnies given that;

    A. It's processed meat - Cancer RIsk.

    B. It's full of salt - Heart Attack and stroke risk

    3. It full of fat - Heart attack, stroke and cancer risk.

    I thought Ed wanted to ban everything that taste's nice and force us all to eat musli?

    Isn''t museli full of bad sugar?

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    Absolutely consistent?

    Yep, for example this speech from 2005 which was what won him the leadership contest:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/oct/04/conservatives2005.conservatives3

    Or this one when he became leader:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4504722.stm

    The idea (which Richard T seems to believe) that Cameron posed as an extreme Eurosceptic or hid his centre-right, one-nation, Macmillan-style brand of Conservatism to win the Conservative leadership is completely barmy, another example of UKIP craziness. He was elected leader precisely because he promised to modernise the party and widen its appeal to the centre ground and to younger, socially liberal voters.
    That must be why your membership has halved then. Cameron was and is a fraud. The sooner he is gone the better for the Tory party and the country.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Corporeal, blasphemy!

    Mr. Putney, I knew you were a wise fellow.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    The fact that Ed looks faintly ridiculous in this photo opportunity trying to pose as a man of the people is of no real moment whatsoever.

    The fact that our media are now always on the lookout for the next "gaff" (serious or not) must be a major concern to the Labour leadership. It is very, very hard to run a campaign in such an atmosphere. Ask President Romney (sorry Southam).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MikeK said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    JamesM said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.

    My concern, being blunt about it, is that the Conservative party has on many occasions in the recent past been held to ransom by a small collection of sad obsessives who have contaminated the brand and made too large a section of the population think they were odd at best and downright unpleasant at worst.

    If some of these moved off that would be a good thing.
    many of us would consider that is exactly what is happening now. A small band of Cameroons holding the rest of the party to ransom over the EU question. It is clear that the majority of the party membership do not hold the pro-EU views of the leadership and yet they are being held to ransom with the threat of a Labour government if they do not support the leadership's minority position.
    A majority of the membership voted for Cameron.
    Yes, and how many years ago was that? 9, I believe. Not only that, but most of those who voted have left the Tory party.
    Sure. And if they wanted to replace him 47 (?) MPs just have to write a letter to the chairman of the '22 and it can be tested. Simples.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    I quite fancy a bacon sandwich now.

    Is anyone keeping track of how much he's spent this week, that'd surely eat in to his £70 a week allowance....
  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282
    Any one know which companies are doing an exit poll tomorrow on the Euro vote?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited May 2014

    That must be why your membership has halved then. Cameron was and is a fraud. The sooner he is gone the better for the Tory party and the country.

    Just because he doesn't share your extreme views, that doesn't make him a fraud. Maybe he's wrong, certainly some voters would prefer a more right-wing approach, but, as I have demonstrated by linking to two speeches from 2005, he has been 100% consistent in his political positioning. No-one in the Conservative Party can possibly claim to have been misled about the direction he was going to take the party in: it is all there in back and white.

    As for membership falling, it fell at a similar rate under Maggie, Hague, IDS and Howard. The reasons are more to do with changes in society than anything else.
  • SeanT said:

    Intriguing/disturbing story in Guido.

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/

    Who knows if it is true?

    What's undeniable is that the way UKIP are being smeared is going to end with UKIPers being beaten/knifed etc.

    How long before this gets described as a photo shoot opportunity?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. T, that's immensely disturbing, and worth mentioning others (I think including yourself) first raised the issue of a very odd air about the attacks on UKIP yesterday.

    This is deeply unhealthy.

    I must admit, I've veered wildly in recent days and seriously considered backing another party at the Euros (Pirates, probably), but the level of abuse hurled at UKIP has firmed up my intentions.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Never work with children, animals but never, ever try to eat a bacon butty or hamburger for the cameras.

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/video-eds-battle-of-the-bacon-butty/

    Another Wtf moment from labour's media interns.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    SeanT said:

    Intriguing/disturbing story in Guido.

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/

    Who knows if it is true?

    What's undeniable is that the way UKIP are being smeared is going to end with UKIPers being beaten/knifed etc.

    How long before this gets described as a photo shoot opportunity?
    I don't believe this is true. His cheek bone doesn't look broken and the fact the attackers are Muslim just seems too convenient.
  • Charles said:

    BobaFett said:

    Bacon-gate is a new low in the papers' election coverage. Is this what passes for news nowadays??
    Tomorrow David Cameron 'caught' eating chips. Nick Clegg snatched munching crisps. Nigel Farage spotted with glass of wine.

    None of that BobaFett dismissiveness.
    I remember tim et al being very excited about Osborne eat a burger
    We also had many many many posts from tim about how one example of Cameron using a supermarket was going to lose Cameron the GE and turn water into wine etc etc.
    So, it is refreshing to read from BobaFett that such appearances are of little consequence and if tim returns we can look forward to BobaFett undermine tim's pronouncements as well as us all seeing proof of father xmas and the tooth fairy.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    SeanT said:

    Intriguing/disturbing story in Guido.

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/

    Who knows if it is true?

    What's undeniable is that the way UKIP are being smeared is going to end with UKIPers being beaten/knifed etc.

    But is that incident political or religious?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    That must be why your membership has halved then. Cameron was and is a fraud. The sooner he is gone the better for the Tory party and the country.

    Just because he doesn't share your extreme views, that doesn't make him a fraud. Maybe he's wrong, certainly some voters would prefer a more right-wing approach, but, as I have demonstrated by linking to two speeches from 2005, he has been 100% consistent in his political positioning. No-one in the Conservative Party can possibly claim to have been misled about the direction he was going to take the party in: it is all there in back and white.

    As for membership falling, it fell at a similar rate under Maggie, Hague, IDS and Howard. The reasons are more to do with changes in society than anything else.
    I love the way that when you are losing the argument you revert to calling a view held by close to half the population 'extreme'. It just highlights everything that is wrong with you and the Tory party when it comes to your disdain for the public.
  • Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Intriguing/disturbing story in Guido.

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/

    Who knows if it is true?

    What's undeniable is that the way UKIP are being smeared is going to end with UKIPers being beaten/knifed etc.

    How long before this gets described as a photo shoot opportunity?
    I don't believe this is true. His cheek bone doesn't look broken and the fact the attackers are Muslim just seems too convenient.
    I make that all of 3 minutes!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    SeanT said:

    Intriguing/disturbing story in Guido.

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/

    Who knows if it is true?

    What's undeniable is that the way UKIP are being smeared is going to end with UKIPers being beaten/knifed etc.

    But is that incident political or religious?

    Or neighbours falling out?

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited May 2014

    Absolutely consistent?

    Yep, for example this speech from 2005 which was what won him the leadership contest:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/oct/04/conservatives2005.conservatives3

    Or this one when he became leader:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4504722.stm

    The idea (which Richard T seems to believe) that Cameron posed as an extreme Eurosceptic or hid his centre-right, one-nation, Macmillan-style brand of Conservatism to win the Conservative leadership is completely barmy, another example of UKIP craziness. He was elected leader precisely because he promised to modernise the party and widen its appeal to the centre ground and to younger, socially liberal voters.
    I don't see why moderate centre-rightness needs to mean Europhile. He definitely did advertise the fact he was on the eurosceptic side of the argument. Now he's leaking stories to the Guardian to smear actual eurosceptics as racists.

    And he did lie about being a liberal too. No liberal believes the security services should grab the content of millions of private communications without any warrant or probable cause.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Pulpstar/TSE/isam, talk me through the result you are hoping for. Though this polling may help, I just can't see it at all (though I appreciate you don't need to see much at 100/1). I was one of those thinking the price should have been 1000/1 [prior to this polling].

    On this polling and at the current time the value looks like a Conservative Minority @ 13/2 (or take "Other" with WH @ 5/1). However I am increasingly throwing my lot in with Hodges and have reduced my liability on a Tory maj (I have been solidly backing NOM).

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government

    I think I want a close result with Labour just pipping it, but I'm not sure now tbh.

    Anyway I've sent you a message, maybe you can work out what I want !
This discussion has been closed.