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  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Financier said:

    Looking at the YouGov 2010 splits, this morning for the LDs it is:
    Cons: 15; LAB:27; LD: 39; UKIP:9; Green:7. If this was continued then it would show that more of the LD to LAB switch is returning.

    For this year and using monthly averages, the LD to LAB support has dropped by about 4 points but the LD retention has dropped by about 1.5 points. The extra VI has gone to the Cons (2 pts) and UKIP and Green, (1.5 each)

    In the Survation EU Parliament poll UKIP has 36% of 2010-LDs, Labour 12%, Con 10%, current-LD 31%

    (table 6, p.9)
    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/May-voting-poll-Mirror-tables.pdf
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    @DavidL - I understand. An extreme eurosceptic is someone who doesn't agree with your views on the EU.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    @TSE - Yes, these are exciting times. Big constitutional change is coming whatever happens in September.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    Mr. Observer, fair enough, it just seemed slightly odd. I was worried someone might be trying to steal your identity and besmirch your reputation!

    You'd have to be pretty peculiar to want my reputation. Especially as a political tipster :-)

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    Financier said:

    Looking at the YouGov 2010 splits, this morning for the LDs it is:
    Cons: 15; LAB:27; LD: 39; UKIP:9; Green:7. If this was continued then it would show that more of the LD to LAB switch is returning.

    For this year and using monthly averages, the LD to LAB support has dropped by about 4 points but the LD retention has dropped by about 1.5 points. The extra VI has gone to the Cons (2 pts) and UKIP and Green, (1.5 each)

    In the Survation EU Parliament poll UKIP has 36% of 2010-LDs, Labour 12%, Con 10%, current-LD 31%

    (table 6, p.9)
    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/May-voting-poll-Mirror-tables.pdf
    Those 2010 Lib Dems are a pretty fickle bunch! Did they have any idea what they were voting for? Do they now?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Sean_F said:

    ToryJim said:

    DavidL said:

    @DavidL - "It is also consistent with the view that I expressed the other day that Cameron and Osborne seem to gaining as much in the centre as they are losing to the right."

    And dare I say it but continue to win the enthusiastic support of moderate, civilised, reasonable people like me.

    The Hague and Howard years were difficult as the tories tested euro-sceptic nonsense and scapegoat politics to destruction in the small part of the playground that Blair was willing to let them use. Being in Coalition with the Lib Dems has given Cameron and in particular Osborne cover to do a lot that needed done anyway.

    There is a happy congruity between principles and political polling at the moment for the tories. Long may it last.

    I have often wondered if Cameron's plan with the coalition wasn't to in essence attempt to use the Lib Dems to complete the detox. After all there isn't much that the Lib Dems haven't willingly gone along with and I wonder if things like the equal marriage stuff haven't shifted the locus of support for the Conservatives. If so it will be reflected increasingly in candidate selections and may increase prospects particularly in the longer term.

    If you look at the way the Tories courted the UKIP vote you'd have to disagree with that. But it could just be that they are beginning to realise they are better off heading for the middle ground. That will be good for the Tories and for this country.

    And good for UKIP too, as they gather up Conservative voters and members.

    Good for the right in general. Two separate strong brands are generally going to get a bigger cumulative market share than one big, fuzzy brand representing various contradictory propositions. The catch, though, is FPTP.

    UKIP is benefiting currently by being all things to all men. Newsnight went to Rotherham last night and spoke to a few ex-miners who spoke wistfully of the strike, Dennis Skinner and Tony Benn, before saying that they voted UKIP in the last local elections.
    UKIP's Chairman in Hertsmere is Frank Ward, formerly leader of the Labour Group on the Council, Parliamentary candidate in 1983, and father of Claire Ward, Labour MP for Watford from 1997-2010, and as staunch a socialist as Glasgow ever produced. Ten years ago, when I was on the council, I'd have laughed at the idea we'd ever be in the same party.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

    That, and you can see the Tories losing seats to others as well.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    ToryJim said:

    DavidL said:

    @DavidL - "It is also consistent with the view that I expressed the other day that Cameron and Osborne seem to gaining as much in the centre as they are losing to the right."

    And dare I say it but continue to win the enthusiastic support of moderate, civilised, reasonable people like me.

    The Hague and Howard years were difficult as the tories tested euro-sceptic nonsense and scapegoat politics to destruction in the small part of the playground that Blair was willing to let them use. Being in Coalition with the Lib Dems has given Cameron and in particular Osborne cover to do a lot that needed done anyway.

    There is a happy congruity between principles and political polling at the moment for the tories. Long may it last.

    I have often wondered if Cameron's plan with the coalition wasn't to in essence attempt to use the Lib Dems to complete the detox. After all there isn't much that the Lib Dems haven't willingly gone along with and I wonder if things like the equal marriage stuff haven't shifted the locus of support for the Conservatives. If so it will be reflected increasingly in candidate selections and may increase prospects particularly in the longer term.

    If you look at the way the Tories courted the UKIP vote you'd have to disagree with that. But it could just be that they are beginning to realise they are better off heading for the middle ground. That will be good for the Tories and for this country.

    And good for UKIP too, as they gather up Conservative voters and members.

    Good for the right in general. Two separate strong brands are generally going to get a bigger cumulative market share than one big, fuzzy brand representing various contradictory propositions. The catch, though, is FPTP.

    UKIP is benefiting currently by being all things to all men. Newsnight went to Rotherham last night and spoke to a few ex-miners who spoke wistfully of the strike, Dennis Skinner and Tony Benn, before saying that they voted UKIP in the last local elections.
    UKIP's Chairman in Hertsmere is Frank Ward, formerly leader of the Labour Group on the Council, Parliamentary candidate in 1983, and father of Claire Ward, Labour MP for Watford from 1997-2010, and as staunch a socialist as Glasgow ever produced. Ten years ago, when I was on the council, I'd have laughed at the idea we'd ever be in the same party.

    If he remains a staunch socialist then UKIP in its current form is not sustainable, is it?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Observer, there are all sorts of odd people on the interweb.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Off Topic.

    BBC “French red faces over trains that are 'too wide” - Heard this story on the news this morning, it comes to a pretty pass when one hears things on the radio and immediately thinks Mr Jessop or Sunil will enjoy hearing that...!


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27497727

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    Mr. Eagles, I'd like lopsided devolution to end. I don't think it will, though.

    Politicians will either ignore the West Lothian Question or, worse, try to carve England up into pathetic little regional assemblies.

    EV4EL.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    ToryJim said:

    DavidL said:

    @DavidL - "It is also consistent with the view that I expressed the other day that Cameron and Osborne seem to gaining as much in the centre as they are losing to the right."

    And dare I say it but continue to win the enthusiastic support of moderate, civilised, reasonable people like me.

    The Hague and Howard years were difficult as the tories tested euro-sceptic nonsense and scapegoat politics to destruction in the small part of the playground that Blair was willing to let them use. Being in Coalition with the Lib Dems has given Cameron and in particular Osborne cover to do a lot that needed done anyway.

    There is a happy congruity between principles and political polling at the moment for the tories. Long may it last.

    I have often wondered if Cameron's plan with the coalition wasn't to in essence attempt to use the Lib Dems to complete the detox. After all there isn't much that the Lib Dems haven't willingly gone along with and I wonder if things like the equal marriage stuff haven't shifted the locus of support for the Conservatives. If so it will be reflected increasingly in candidate selections and may increase prospects particularly in the longer term.

    If you look at the way the Tories courted the UKIP vote you'd have to disagree with that. But it could just be that they are beginning to realise they are better off heading for the middle ground. That will be good for the Tories and for this country.

    And good for UKIP too, as they gather up Conservative voters and members.

    Good for the right in general. Two separate strong brands are generally going to get a bigger cumulative market share than one big, fuzzy brand representing various contradictory propositions. The catch, though, is FPTP.

    UKIP is benefiting currently by being all things to all men. Newsnight went to Rotherham last night and spoke to a few ex-miners who spoke wistfully of the strike, Dennis Skinner and Tony Benn, before saying that they voted UKIP in the last local elections.
    UKIP's Chairman in Hertsmere is Frank Ward, formerly leader of the Labour Group on the Council, Parliamentary candidate in 1983, and father of Claire Ward, Labour MP for Watford from 1997-2010, and as staunch a socialist as Glasgow ever produced. Ten years ago, when I was on the council, I'd have laughed at the idea we'd ever be in the same party.

    The lion shall lie down with the lamb.

    One Nation Kippers.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Farages expectation management... We're going to win!!!

    Also commits to Selective education and says they'd have someone from big business running the Nhs

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/477165/Exclusive-Nigel-Farage-explains-why-Ukip-is-here-to-stay
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

    That, and you can see the Tories losing seats to others as well.
    @Thescreamingeagles Con Seats/Lab Votes is 100-1 with Paddy, you sure its less than a 1% chance given this poll ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167
    The campaign has finally arrived in the North East - there was a Kipper on an overbridge above the A1 this morning with a big placard stuck to his car.

    I wish we had some proper regional polling in addition to London / Scotland / Wales. I'm sure that UKIP will win a NE seat, but are they on track to top the poll up here? And can the Greens beat the LDs?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

    That, and you can see the Tories losing seats to others as well.
    @Thescreamingeagles Con Seats/Lab Votes is 100-1 with Paddy, you sure its less than a 1% chance given this poll ?
    Wasnt this poll based on a sample of 26 people per constituency?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    - "CON doing far better in the marginals than GB as a whole"

    Err...

    CON Target No. 1
    Hampstead and Kilburn (Lab Maj = 42)
    PP:

    Lab 2/7
    Con 7/2
    LD 6/1
    UKIP 80/1

    Which implies one or more of:

    - There's value in the Con price
    - The ComRes figures are on the top side for the Tories in the marginals
    - There are local factors in play in H&K.

    This is a constituency I know pretty well. If the Tories get close next year they will win a substantial overall majority without any doubt at all. I would expect a very safe Labour hold.

    Why

    I don't know the constituency, but met Chris Phelps on a train a few years ago - he did a pretty good job overall*. Admittedly - I'd assume - the LD would probably be more inclined than most to vote tactically, but Glenda is stepping down isn't she? Have the constituency boundaries changed in Labour's favour?

    I'm just wondering why the same result in H&K next time wouldn't imply a broadly similar result nationally, all other things being equal

    * I donated £250 to his campaign

    edit: given that he (or his team) never wrote to say 'thank you' I'm unlikely to do so in future. A computer generated letter, a quick top&tail and a stamp doesn't cost much, folks.
    Chris Philp, not Phelps.

    Top man, went all out at GE2010 very organised on top of all the activity.

    But H&K was not only a fiefdom for GJ but is chock-a-block of a) champagne socialists; and b) grim tower blocks. The latter are natural labour supporters (or were!) while the former are, um, natural labour supporters.

    It will take a lot to shake off the feeling of H&Kers that they are not a noble outpost in the fight against the harsh tories.
    Contrary to popular belief, Hampstead proper is reliably Conservative. It's Kilburn and Gospel Oak that provide a huge Labour vote. The Conservatives would have won on the pre-2010 boundaries.
    Of the three council wards that make up Hampstead proper, there are eight Conservative councillors, and one LibDem.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    Well in those 'other seats' LAB probably gain Bradford Wst, will lose some seats in Scotland to SNP... NI is of course 18 seats for neither LAB nor CON. Wales ? No idea much the same maybe ?
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Pulpstar said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    Well in those 'other seats' LAB probably gain Bradford Wst, will lose some seats in Scotland to SNP... NI is of course 18 seats for neither LAB nor CON. Wales ? No idea much the same maybe ?
    Exactly. Where are these mystery seats Labour will take to effect a seats win?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

    That, and you can see the Tories losing seats to others as well.
    @Thescreamingeagles Con Seats/Lab Votes is 100-1 with Paddy, you sure its less than a 1% chance given this poll ?
    Wasnt this poll based on a sample of 26 people per constituency?
    The overall effect is a sample of 1030 though - think about how many people/constituency are polled in a 'normal' poll...
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557

    The campaign has finally arrived in the North East - there was a Kipper on an overbridge above the A1 this morning with a big placard stuck to his car.

    I wish we had some proper regional polling in addition to London / Scotland / Wales. I'm sure that UKIP will win a NE seat, but are they on track to top the poll up here? And can the Greens beat the LDs?

    William Hill - Euros - North East England - Most Votes

    Labour 1/33
    UKIP 6/1
    Conservatives 50/1
    Greens 200/1
    Liberal Democrats 200/1

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    isam said:

    Farages expectation management... We're going to win!!!

    Also commits to Selective education and says they'd have someone from big business running the Nhs

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/477165/Exclusive-Nigel-Farage-explains-why-Ukip-is-here-to-stay

    2015 looks promising too. Survation are predicting ~20%, and the councillors/MEPs elected on thursday should provide some more good advocates.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    - "CON doing far better in the marginals than GB as a whole"

    Err...

    CON Target No. 1
    Hampstead and Kilburn (Lab Maj = 42)
    PP:

    Lab 2/7
    Con 7/2
    LD 6/1
    UKIP 80/1

    Which implies one or more of:

    - There's value in the Con price
    - The ComRes figures are on the top side for the Tories in the marginals
    - There are local factors in play in H&K.

    This is a constituency I know pretty well. If the Tories get close next year they will win a substantial overall majority without any doubt at all. I would expect a very safe Labour hold.

    Why

    I don't know the constituency, but met Chris Phelps on a train a few years ago - he did a pretty good job overall*. Admittedly - I'd assume - the LD would probably be more inclined than most to vote tactically, but Glenda is stepping down isn't she? Have the constituency boundaries changed in Labour's favour?

    I'm just wondering why the same result in H&K next time wouldn't imply a broadly similar result nationally, all other things being equal

    * I donated £250 to his campaign

    edit: given that he (or his team) never wrote to say 'thank you' I'm unlikely to do so in future. A computer generated letter, a quick top&tail and a stamp doesn't cost much, folks.
    Chris Philp, not Phelps.

    Top man, went all out at GE2010 very organised on top of all the activity.

    But H&K was not only a fiefdom for GJ but is chock-a-block of a) champagne socialists; and b) grim tower blocks. The latter are natural labour supporters (or were!) while the former are, um, natural labour supporters.

    It will take a lot to shake off the feeling of H&Kers that they are not a noble outpost in the fight against the harsh tories.
    Contrary to popular belief, Hampstead proper is reliably Conservative. It's Kilburn and Gospel Oak that provide a huge Labour vote. The Conservatives would have won on the pre-2010 boundaries.
    Of the three council wards that make up Hampstead proper, there are eight Conservative councillors, and one LibDem.

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited May 2014
    @Bobafett PM (Click your name)
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

    That, and you can see the Tories losing seats to others as well.
    @Thescreamingeagles Con Seats/Lab Votes is 100-1 with Paddy, you sure its less than a 1% chance given this poll ?
    Wasnt this poll based on a sample of 26 people per constituency?
    It was, but I guess we do have to look into what it projects, for betting reasons if nothing else. There are some very long odds available on the Tories to hold the seats this marginals poll suggests they will hold.

    I don't grasp @TSE's argument however – I don't see where Lab are supposed to glean a seats lead when all/nearly all Tory marginals stay blue.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    DavidL said:

    Financier said:

    Looking at the YouGov 2010 splits, this morning for the LDs it is:
    Cons: 15; LAB:27; LD: 39; UKIP:9; Green:7. If this was continued then it would show that more of the LD to LAB switch is returning.

    For this year and using monthly averages, the LD to LAB support has dropped by about 4 points but the LD retention has dropped by about 1.5 points. The extra VI has gone to the Cons (2 pts) and UKIP and Green, (1.5 each)

    In the Survation EU Parliament poll UKIP has 36% of 2010-LDs, Labour 12%, Con 10%, current-LD 31%

    (table 6, p.9)
    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/May-voting-poll-Mirror-tables.pdf
    Those 2010 Lib Dems are a pretty fickle bunch! Did they have any idea what they were voting for? Do they now?
    There is a substantial block of the electorate - perhaps 15% in 2010, probably 20% now - who are really "none of the above". These people wring their hands and complain about how the political class have failed them, and who believe we need a new type of politics, and politicians who listen to the people.

    In 2010, the LibDems filled this role. In 2015, UKIP is filling it.

    The joy of being NOTA is that - so long as you are never sullied by actual power, and the inevitable compromises that involves - then you can continue to benefit from dissatisfaction - and (like the LibDems did in 2010 and before) you can be all things to all people.

    Question for PBers: are there any councils where UKIP stands a good chance this time around of gaining power?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564

    Nick P

    In response to your inquiry about Newark on the previous thread, this is a copy of what I posted a couple of days ago.

    Thanks, Richard, very interesting. I guess that interest will step up after the Euros are out of the way, though I know even hardened Labour people are saying they rather fancy having the long weekend off after 15 hours on the streets on Thursday (wimps!). If you'd like to post an update next week we'd all be interested.

    An amusing quirk about the daily YouGovs is that you sometimes get a sample which is detectably more or less grumpy than usual. Today's sample takes a more mellow view of nearly every aspect of ALL of Cameron, Miliband and Clegg - all MOE but quite consistent. Perhaps it's the sunshine.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    - "CON doing far better in the marginals than GB as a whole"

    Err...

    CON Target No. 1
    Hampstead and Kilburn (Lab Maj = 42)
    PP:

    Lab 2/7
    Con 7/2
    LD 6/1
    UKIP 80/1

    Which implies one or more of:

    - There's value in the Con price
    - The ComRes figures are on the top side for the Tories in the marginals
    - There are local factors in play in H&K.

    This is a constituency I know pretty well. If the Tories get close next year they will win a substantial overall majority without any doubt at all. I would expect a very safe Labour hold.

    Why

    I don't know the constituency, but met Chris Phelps on a train a few years ago - he did a pretty good job overall*. Admittedly - I'd assume - the LD would probably be more inclined than most to vote tactically, but Glenda is stepping down isn't she? Have the constituency boundaries changed in Labour's favour?

    I'm just wondering why the same result in H&K next time wouldn't imply a broadly similar result nationally, all other things being equal

    * I donated £250 to his campaign

    edit: given that he (or his team) never wrote to say 'thank you' I'm unlikely to do so in future. A computer generated letter, a quick top&tail and a stamp doesn't cost much, folks.
    Chris Philp, not Phelps.

    Top man, went all out at GE2010 very organised on top of all the activity.

    But H&K was not only a fiefdom for GJ but is chock-a-block of a) champagne socialists; and b) grim tower blocks. The latter are natural labour supporters (or were!) while the former are, um, natural labour supporters.

    It will take a lot to shake off the feeling of H&Kers that they are not a noble outpost in the fight against the harsh tories.
    Contrary to popular belief, Hampstead proper is reliably Conservative. It's Kilburn and Gospel Oak that provide a huge Labour vote. The Conservatives would have won on the pre-2010 boundaries.
    Of the three council wards that make up Hampstead proper, there are eight Conservative councillors, and one LibDem.

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?
    Hampstead liberals exist. But, they're much more numerous in places like Primrose Hill, Islington, Muswell Hill, and Stoke Newington.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?

    Hampstead is the home of hedge fund managers these days. You'll struggle to find a pleasant family house (of, say 2,000 square feet) for less than £3m. More realistically, you'll be writing a £4m cheque, especially if you want to be within 10 minutes walk of the village.

    The UKIP vote in Hampstead will be very low (I don't even think they're standing in Hampstead or in SeanT's Primrose Hill). People who live in Hampstead (and St John's Wood... and Belsize Park) typically work in incredibly cosmopolitan businesses, where half or fewer of the employees are British.

    Frankly, FT sales outnumber Guardian sales 10-to-1 in North West London. Frankly, La Monde and La Gazetta dela Sporta probably outsell the Guardian.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Pulpstar said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

    That, and you can see the Tories losing seats to others as well.
    @Thescreamingeagles Con Seats/Lab Votes is 100-1 with Paddy, you sure its less than a 1% chance given this poll ?
    Good spot.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Booming good news today

    Retail Sales key findings:

    • In April 2014, the quantity bought in the retail industry increased by 6.9% compared with April 2013 and by 1.3% compared with March 2014. This was the highest year-on-year growth in the quantity bought since May 2004 and continued a pattern of year-on-year growth since early 2013.

    • The underlying pattern, as expressed by the rolling three-month-on-three month growth rate, was one of growth, with the quantity bought increasing by 1.8%. This was the highest since March 2004 and was the 14th consecutive month of three month-on-three month growth in the quantity bought.

    • With the exception of petrol stations, all stores saw year-on-year increases in sales volumes. Notably the food sector posted its strongest year-on-year growth since January 2002, increasing by 6.3%. Feedback from food store retailers suggested that a better than expected Easter and better weather conditions helped to boost sales.

    • Food store retailers also suggested that promotions helped to boost sales and this was reflected in the slowing of average price growth in the food sector: consistent with the consumer prices index (CPI) published on 20 May 2014, the rate of food store price inflation decreased to 0.9%, down from 1.8% in March 2014. Food stores provided the main contribution to the fall in the all retail rate of store price inflation, which fell by 0.6% in April 2014.

    • In April 2014, the amount spent in the retail industry increased by 6.2% compared with April 2013 and by 0.6% compared with March 2014. Non-seasonally adjusted data show that the average weekly spend in the retail industry in April 2014 was £7.0 billion compared with £6.5 billion in April 2013 and £6.8 billion in March 2014.

    • Following a weak March, the amount spent online increased by 13.3% in April 2014 compared with April 2013 and by 2.6% compared with March 2014.

    • Late data returns have resulted in above average revisions for March 2014. More detail on revisions can be found in the revisions section of the background notes.


    another_richard will be having kittens. Expect Plato to return.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Pulpstar said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

    That, and you can see the Tories losing seats to others as well.
    @Thescreamingeagles Con Seats/Lab Votes is 100-1 with Paddy, you sure its less than a 1% chance given this poll ?
    Good spot.
    @TSE

    Inbox
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    - "CON doing far better in the marginals than GB as a whole"

    Err...

    CON Target No. 1
    Hampstead and Kilburn (Lab Maj = 42)
    PP:

    Lab 2/7
    Con 7/2
    LD 6/1
    UKIP 80/1

    Which implies one or more of:

    - There's value in the Con price
    - The ComRes figures are on the top side for the Tories in the marginals
    - There are local factors in play in H&K.

    This is a constituency I know pretty well. If the Tories get close next year they will win a substantial overall majority without any doubt at all. I would expect a very safe Labour hold.

    Why

    I don't know the constituency, but met Chris Phelps on a train a few years ago - he did a pretty good job overall*. Admittedly - I'd assume - the LD would probably be more inclined than most to vote tactically, but Glenda is stepping down isn't she? Have the constituency boundaries changed in Labour's favour?

    I'm just wondering why the same result in H&K next time wouldn't imply a broadly similar result nationally, all other things being equal

    * I donated £250 to his campaign

    edit: given that he (or his team) never wrote to say 'thank you' I'm unlikely to do so in future. A computer generated letter, a quick top&tail and a stamp doesn't cost much, folks.
    Chris Philp, not Phelps.

    Top man, went all out at GE2010 very organised on top of all the activity.

    But H&K was not only a fiefdom for GJ but is chock-a-block of a) champagne socialists; and b) grim tower blocks. The latter are natural labour supporters (or were!) while the former are, um, natural labour supporters.

    It will take a lot to shake off the feeling of H&Kers that they are not a noble outpost in the fight against the harsh tories.
    Contrary to popular belief, Hampstead proper is reliably Conservative. It's Kilburn and Gospel Oak that provide a huge Labour vote. The Conservatives would have won on the pre-2010 boundaries.
    Of the three council wards that make up Hampstead proper, there are eight Conservative councillors, and one LibDem.

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?

    When Hampstead had its own parliamentary constituency it often returned a Tory. I well remember Geoffrey Finsberg being the MP there in the 70s and 80s. Jock Stallard in Saint Pancras North (us) and Frank Dobson in Saint Pancras South.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

    That, and you can see the Tories losing seats to others as well.
    @Thescreamingeagles Con Seats/Lab Votes is 100-1 with Paddy, you sure its less than a 1% chance given this poll ?
    Good spot.
    @TSE

    Inbox
    Nothing there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    @TSE try now
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Pulpstar - thanks. Have replied and taken...

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054
    The strong retail sales figures are entirely down to Easter. I wouldn't be reading too much into them. Tomorrow's GDP second estimate and PSNB figures are much more important. For retail sales the TTM growth is a more important metric as it eliminates volatility.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Only one day left till Britain speaks. Enough of the LibLabCon, tomorrow is when we send a message to the ruling clique that it's over.

    Yes, tomorrow is polling day. Tomorrow is An Independence from Europe day!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited May 2014

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    - "CON doing far better in the marginals than GB as a whole"

    Err...

    CON Target No. 1
    Hampstead and Kilburn (Lab Maj = 42)
    PP:

    Lab 2/7
    Con 7/2
    LD 6/1
    UKIP 80/1

    Which implies one or more of:



    This is a constituency I know pretty well. If the Tories get close next year they will win a substantial overall majority without any doubt at all. I would expect a very safe Labour hold.

    Why

    I don't know the constituency, but met Chris Phelps on a train a few years ago - he did a pretty good job overall*. Admittedly - I'd assume - the LD would probably be more inclined than most to vote tactically, but Glenda is stepping down isn't she? Have the constituency boundaries changed in Labour's favour?

    I'm just wondering why the same result in H&K next time wouldn't imply a broadly similar result nationally, all other things being equal

    * I donated £250 to his campaign

    edit: given that he (or his team) never wrote to say 'thank you' I'm unlikely to do so in future. A computer generated letter, a quick top&tail and a stamp doesn't cost much, folks.
    Chris Philp, not Phelps.

    Top man, went all out at GE2010 very organised on top of all the activity.

    But H&K was not only a fiefdom for GJ but is chock-a-block of a) champagne socialists; and b) grim tower blocks. The latter are natural labour supporters (or were!) while the former are, um, natural labour supporters.

    It will take a lot to shake off the feeling of H&Kers that they are not a noble outpost in the fight against the harsh tories.
    Contrary to popular belief, Hampstead proper is reliably Conservative. It's Kilburn and Gospel Oak that provide a huge Labour vote. The Conservatives would have won on the pre-2010 boundaries.
    Of the three council wards that make up Hampstead proper, there are eight Conservative councillors, and one LibDem.

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?

    When Hampstead had its own parliamentary constituency it often returned a Tory. I well remember Geoffrey Finsberg being the MP there in the 70s and 80s. Jock Stallard in Saint Pancras North (us) and Frank Dobson in Saint Pancras South.

    So who knows what to make a 42 vote majority for Lab at GE2010 now a 2/7 Lab chance in GE2015?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Sean_F said:

    <

    Hampstead liberals exist. But, they're much more numerous in places like Primrose Hill, Islington, Muswell Hill, and Stoke Newington.

    Ah yes, SeanT in Muswell Hill - it's that Europhilia that gives him away, y'know.

  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Twitter currently practicing the art of sarcasm on #WhyImVotingUkip - some of it childish, some of it parody.

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/WhyImVotingUkip?f=realtime&src=tren
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Sean_F said:

    <

    Hampstead liberals exist. But, they're much more numerous in places like Primrose Hill, Islington, Muswell Hill, and Stoke Newington.

    Ah yes, SeanT in Muswell Hill - it's that Europhilia that gives him away, y'know.

    It's neck and neck whether SeanT would be more upset to be described as a Europhile or as living in Muswell Hill.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    @Topping - Hampstead is a blue island surrounded by a red sea. Gospel Oak, Swiss Cottage and Kilburn are full of council estates and are very Labour. UKIP is not a factor.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Pulpstar said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

    That, and you can see the Tories losing seats to others as well.
    @Thescreamingeagles Con Seats/Lab Votes is 100-1 with Paddy, you sure its less than a 1% chance given this poll ?
    Good spot.
    Now at 66-1...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Financier said:

    Looking at the YouGov 2010 splits, this morning for the LDs it is:
    Cons: 15; LAB:27; LD: 39; UKIP:9; Green:7. If this was continued then it would show that more of the LD to LAB switch is returning.

    For this year and using monthly averages, the LD to LAB support has dropped by about 4 points but the LD retention has dropped by about 1.5 points. The extra VI has gone to the Cons (2 pts) and UKIP and Green, (1.5 each)

    In the Survation EU Parliament poll UKIP has 36% of 2010-LDs, Labour 12%, Con 10%, current-LD 31%

    (table 6, p.9)
    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/May-voting-poll-Mirror-tables.pdf
    Those 2010 Lib Dems are a pretty fickle bunch! Did they have any idea what they were voting for? Do they now?
    There is a substantial block of the electorate - perhaps 15% in 2010, probably 20% now - who are really "none of the above". These people wring their hands and complain about how the political class have failed them, and who believe we need a new type of politics, and politicians who listen to the people.

    In 2010, the LibDems filled this role. In 2015, UKIP is filling it.

    The joy of being NOTA is that - so long as you are never sullied by actual power, and the inevitable compromises that involves - then you can continue to benefit from dissatisfaction - and (like the LibDems did in 2010 and before) you can be all things to all people.

    Question for PBers: are there any councils where UKIP stands a good chance this time around of gaining power?
    Agreed. The sad truth is that a lot of people don't take their politics too seriously and just want a moan. Their fickleness is a risk for UKIP after tomorrow and an opportunity for the other parties.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    rcs1000 said:

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?

    Hampstead is the home of hedge fund managers these days. You'll struggle to find a pleasant family house (of, say 2,000 square feet) for less than £3m. More realistically, you'll be writing a £4m cheque, especially if you want to be within 10 minutes walk of the village.

    The UKIP vote in Hampstead will be very low (I don't even think they're standing in Hampstead or in SeanT's Primrose Hill). People who live in Hampstead (and St John's Wood... and Belsize Park) typically work in incredibly cosmopolitan businesses, where half or fewer of the employees are British.

    Frankly, FT sales outnumber Guardian sales 10-to-1 in North West London. Frankly, La Monde and La Gazetta dela Sporta probably outsell the Guardian.

    It's amazing to think now, but a many of those houses within 10 minutes walk of Hampstead tube station were owned by Camden council back in the 80s and rented out. There are still a few around if you look carefully.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046

    @Topping - Hampstead is a blue island surrounded by a red sea. Gospel Oak, Swiss Cottage and Kilburn are full of council estates and are very Labour. UKIP is not a factor.

    Yes I get that and I don't think UKIP is a factor but with the polls as they are and a recount-slim majority and losing their totemic MP I don't see how H&K is 2/7 for Lab.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    rcs1000 said:

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?

    Hampstead is the home of hedge fund managers these days. You'll struggle to find a pleasant family house (of, say 2,000 square feet) for less than £3m. More realistically, you'll be writing a £4m cheque, especially if you want to be within 10 minutes walk of the village.

    The UKIP vote in Hampstead will be very low (I don't even think they're standing in Hampstead or in SeanT's Primrose Hill). People who live in Hampstead (and St John's Wood... and Belsize Park) typically work in incredibly cosmopolitan businesses, where half or fewer of the employees are British.

    Frankly, FT sales outnumber Guardian sales 10-to-1 in North West London. Frankly, La Monde and La Gazetta dela Sporta probably outsell the Guardian.
    I imagine both papers are outsold by Tabloids. North West London is more areas like Wembley, Harlesden, Cricklewood and Kilburn than Hampstead and Queen's Park.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    No-one seems to have answered my query below.

    Does ComRes therefore suggest a Labour lead on votes but a Tory lead on seats?

    No.
    Well what do they suggest then? Their national poll has Lab ahead, but no the marginals poll suggests no seats change hands?!?
    That in Lab/Con marginals, it is largely no change.

    But there are other seats that will also determine the outcome ofe the next election.
    So Labour take enough seats from Others to lead on seats too. Don't buy that. ComRes do, as I read things, suggest a Tory seat lead but Lab leading on PV (were there a general election tomorrow). What do you suggest their two polls project?

    That, and you can see the Tories losing seats to others as well.
    @Thescreamingeagles Con Seats/Lab Votes is 100-1 with Paddy, you sure its less than a 1% chance given this poll ?
    Good spot.
    Now at 66-1...
    Got on at 100s :)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Grandiose said:

    Twitter currently practicing the art of sarcasm on #WhyImVotingUkip - some of it childish, some of it parody.

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/WhyImVotingUkip?f=realtime&src=tren

    Makes me feel old, I remember those jokes first time around.

    And they went funny then!
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Good Morning all.
    http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/ukip-if-you-want-to-but-only.html

    A pro UKIP blog that then tells you to vote Tory. But it's the comments below thatI love.

    May personal forecast for UKIP tomorrow. EU 34.4% Locals 170 plus seats.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    TOPPING said:

    @Topping - Hampstead is a blue island surrounded by a red sea. Gospel Oak, Swiss Cottage and Kilburn are full of council estates and are very Labour. UKIP is not a factor.

    Yes I get that and I don't think UKIP is a factor but with the polls as they are and a recount-slim majority and losing their totemic MP I don't see how H&K is 2/7 for Lab.

    I imagine that the bookies are assuming, reasonably enough, that the LD vote is going to collapse and break strongly for Labour.

  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557

    BobaFett said:

    Charles said:


    Ed lives in the constituency next door.

    Does he know who the leader of the council is?

    (as for the rest: thanks)

    He may do! Christ, Ed is an embarrassment. I remember saying on the day he was elected that it was a very bad day for Labour. Sadly, I - and many, many others - have been proved correct.

    You haven't been proved correct at all – we haven't had a national election with him in charge as yet. Patience grasshopper!

    True. I have to wait another year. Though I think we may get a pretty strong indicator tomorrow. If I am wrong, though, the thought of a Labour government under EdM is not a happy one. My hope remains a Lab/LD coalition, perhaps with a post-No SNP element to it too. A grown-up centre left alliance. Not a chance, is there?

    A Lab/LD/SNP coalition in London? Another reason to vote Yes.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?

    Hampstead is the home of hedge fund managers these days. You'll struggle to find a pleasant family house (of, say 2,000 square feet) for less than £3m. More realistically, you'll be writing a £4m cheque, especially if you want to be within 10 minutes walk of the village.

    The UKIP vote in Hampstead will be very low (I don't even think they're standing in Hampstead or in SeanT's Primrose Hill). People who live in Hampstead (and St John's Wood... and Belsize Park) typically work in incredibly cosmopolitan businesses, where half or fewer of the employees are British.

    Frankly, FT sales outnumber Guardian sales 10-to-1 in North West London. Frankly, La Monde and La Gazetta dela Sporta probably outsell the Guardian.
    I imagine both papers are outsold by Tabloids. North West London is more areas like Wembley, Harlesden, Cricklewood and Kilburn than Hampstead and Queen's Park.
    Yes. But I'm only talking about Hampstead, Belsize Park, Primrose Hill and St John's Wood.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Got another e-mail from Boris this morning asking, in his slightly whimsical way, when I am planning to vote tomorrow.

    I agree with those who say that the tories have been taking these elections much more seriously than Labour and that their Internet communication has improved out of all recognition. Don't forget the mass phone in with Dave either (which I couldn't make). There has been a real "trial run" in some of the things the tories have been doing. Has the much maligned Crosby been getting a grip?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Hmm.

    Toying with a potential early tip (still a bit wary about money stuff online, though the computer seems ok...).
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2014
    College is taking on Prince Charles.

    First in their differing attitudes to Romania and Romanians.

    Now in their attitudes to Putin.

    This is a battle of intellectual heavyweights.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Socrates said:

    Nick Clegg just repeated the millions of jobs dependent on EU lie again on TV....

    Yes, and Nigel Farage attempted to repeat the 'David Cameron reneged on his cast-iron guarantee' lie on the Today programme this morning. To his credit, John Humphrys didn't let him get away with that one, whilst (for once) not interrupting every five seconds.

    Other than that, Farage spoke very well. Pressed on the fundamental hole at the centre of UKIP's position - the fact that they claim to want an In/Out referendum, yet are doing everything in their power to sabotage the Tory government which would deliver one - he repeated his belief that Ed Miliband will also promise a referendum. To give him his due, he didn't pussy-foot around on this, he was absolutely certain that Miliband will make such a commitment at the Labour conference in September. Unfortunately, Humphrys didn't ask him the obvious question: what if Miliband doesn't?

    Ed M won't, of course.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Pulpstar - Still want me to stick on a fiver?

    Pp let me have £4.07 online which explains why it fell from 100/1 to 66/1
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    On topic: We shouldn't give too much credence to this poll. It's only one poll, the sample is small, and getting the weightings right on marginals polls is exceptionally tricky.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    @DavidL - I understand. An extreme eurosceptic is someone who doesn't agree with your views on the EU.

    Nah, don't think he is saying that.

    I'd reckon that probably 90% of the Tory party is Eurosceptic in some degree. Many of them accept the benefits of being a member of the EU, but are increasingly concerned about the costs.

    An extreme Eurosceptic is someone who either:

    (a) Takes the position that membership of the EU is the only question that matters and should be the primary focus at all times. Clearly it cuts across many issues, but equally there is much that we can do to address issues even when there is an EU dimension. Arguably this could be described (a little unfairly) as the "Bill Cash" position

    (b) Someone who would rather see a Europhilic party in power in the remote chance that at some indeterminant time in the future it will create the conditions where possibly maybe a pure blindingly-white party of perfect principle may win a majority in Parliament and lead us into the blessed land of milk and honey. Someone who will cut off their nose to spite their face, in other words: who prefers principled opposition to the realities and compromises of government
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?

    Hampstead is the home of hedge fund managers these days. You'll struggle to find a pleasant family house (of, say 2,000 square feet) for less than £3m. More realistically, you'll be writing a £4m cheque, especially if you want to be within 10 minutes walk of the village.

    The UKIP vote in Hampstead will be very low (I don't even think they're standing in Hampstead or in SeanT's Primrose Hill). People who live in Hampstead (and St John's Wood... and Belsize Park) typically work in incredibly cosmopolitan businesses, where half or fewer of the employees are British.

    Frankly, FT sales outnumber Guardian sales 10-to-1 in North West London. Frankly, La Monde and La Gazetta dela Sporta probably outsell the Guardian.
    I sent my postal vote yesterday (I expected to be out of the country this week). I can confirm there were no Kipper candidates for the ward of Camden Town with Primrose Hill.

    Hampstead is now VERY posh, and must surely be Tory. I expect Belsize Park, Primrose Hill and maybe Camden Town to follow the same route, eventually - especially as Labour and the Lib Dems talk of bringing in a mansion tax.

    It's Gospel Oak and the big council estates south of Mornington Crescent that keep Camden Labour.
    Aren't there a lot of council estates in Camden Town still?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Charles said:

    - "CON doing far better in the marginals than GB as a whole"

    Err...

    CON Target No. 1
    Hampstead and Kilburn (Lab Maj = 42)
    PP:

    Lab 2/7
    Con 7/2
    LD 6/1
    UKIP 80/1

    Which implies one or more of:

    - There's value in the Con price
    - The ComRes figures are on the top side for the Tories in the marginals
    - There are local factors in play in H&K.

    This is a constituency I know pretty well. If the Tories get close next year they will win a substantial overall majority without any doubt at all. I would expect a very safe Labour hold.

    Why

    I don't know the constituency, but met Chris Phelps on a train a few years ago - he did a pretty good job overall*. Admittedly - I'd assume - the LD would probably be more inclined than most to vote tactically, but Glenda is stepping down isn't she? Have the constituency boundaries changed in Labour's favour?

    I'm just wondering why the same result in H&K next time wouldn't imply a broadly similar result nationally, all other things being equal

    * I donated £250 to his campaign

    edit: given that he (or his team) never wrote to say 'thank you' I'm unlikely to do so in future. A computer generated letter, a quick top&tail and a stamp doesn't cost much, folks.

    The LD vote will collapse and head primarily to Labour. UKIP will not be a factor. Labour will keep the votes it got in 2010 and has a very strong, active local organisation. Ed lives in the constituency next door.
    I live in this constituency. The Tories have been very active for some time now - certainly in my area - as have the Lib Dems. Labour have been nowhere to be seen. I don't think you can assume that all the Lib Dem vote will go to Labour nor that it will necessarily collapse. In the local elections - and this where Labour run the Council - there has been zero activity by Labour. I am surprised by that. The fact that Ed M lives nearby is IMO irrelevant. Even amongst Labour sympathisers/supporters I have never heard a good word said for him - as leader - though personally he strikes me as nice enough.

    I would like to vote Lib Dem next time - to show solidarity with Majid Nawaz over the Jesus/Mo cartoon kerfuffle - but the pusillanimous response of the Lib Dem hierarchy and their failure to stand up - unequivocally - for free speech has put me off. If even the Liberal Democrats don't understand liberalism, what hope is there for the rest of us?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "Whatever the outcome of the Indyref, there's going to be a major constitutional upheaval for the UK, and the era of asymmetrical devolution is over."

    Wishful thinking there. What is to stop the next government giving us the same answer the last one did and carrying on? Aside from the Scots getting a few more powers and more control over money raised and spent there, I don't expect anything to change. If Labour get in with a small majority or in coalition with the Lib Dems, the only constitutional change will be another go at Clegg's HoL reforms.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    TOPPING said:

    @Topping - Hampstead is a blue island surrounded by a red sea. Gospel Oak, Swiss Cottage and Kilburn are full of council estates and are very Labour. UKIP is not a factor.

    Yes I get that and I don't think UKIP is a factor but with the polls as they are and a recount-slim majority and losing their totemic MP I don't see how H&K is 2/7 for Lab.

    I imagine that the bookies are assuming, reasonably enough, that the LD vote is going to collapse and break strongly for Labour.

    My rule of thumb is that half the Lib Dem vote will defect and that it will break 3:1 in favour of Labour over the Conservatives. (This ignores UKIP, but both the number of defectors and the ratio are loose assumptions anyway). On this basis, Labour start with a majority of over 4,000 in Hampstead & Kilburn.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Llama, I quite agree.

    Miss Cyclefree, top post. It's an interesting question as to whether media or Lib Dem cowardice over the Jesus and Mo cartoons is more contemptible.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Cyclefree said:

    I live in this constituency. The Tories have been very active for some time now - certainly in my area - as have the Lib Dems. Labour have been nowhere to be seen. I don't think you can assume that all the Lib Dem vote will go to Labour nor that it will necessarily collapse. In the local elections - and this where Labour run the Council - there has been zero activity by Labour. I am surprised by that. The fact that Ed M lives nearby is IMO irrelevant. Even amongst Labour sympathisers/supporters I have never heard a good word said for him - as leader - though personally he strikes me as nice enough.

    I would like to vote Lib Dem next time - to show solidarity with Majid Nawaz over the Jesus/Mo cartoon kerfuffle - but the pusillanimous response of the Lib Dem hierarchy and their failure to stand up - unequivocally - for free speech has put me off. If even the Liberal Democrats don't understand liberalism, what hope is there for the rest of us?

    As do I :-)

    So far, I've seen two LibDem posters (both in West Hampstead), and see one guy (also a LibDem) handing out leaflets at Swiss Cottage tube.

    The Conservatives have had a stall in Hampstead village some weekends.

    No activity from Labour or UKIP as far as I can see.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    - "CON doing far better in the marginals than GB as a whole"

    Err...

    CON Target No. 1
    Hampstead and Kilburn (Lab Maj = 42)
    PP:

    Lab 2/7
    Con 7/2
    LD 6/1
    UKIP 80/1

    Which implies one or more of:

    - There's value in the Con price
    - The ComRes figures are on the top side for the Tories in the marginals
    - There are local factors in play in H&K.

    This is a constituency I know pretty well. If the Tories get close next year they will win a substantial overall majority without any doubt at all. I would expect a very safe Labour hold.

    Why

    I don't know the constituency, but met Chris Phelps on a train a few years ago - he did a pretty good job overall*. Admittedly - I'd assume - the LD would probably be more inclined than most to vote tactically, but Glenda is stepping down isn't she? Have the constituency boundaries changed in Labour's favour?

    I'm just wondering why the same result in H&K next time wouldn't imply a broadly similar result nationally, all other things being equal

    * I donated £250 to his campaign

    edit: given that he (or his team) never wrote to say 'thank you' I'm unlikely to do so in future. A computer generated letter, a quick top&tail and a stamp doesn't cost much, folks.

    The LD vote will collapse and head primarily to Labour. UKIP will not be a factor. Labour will keep the votes it got in 2010 and has a very strong, active local organisation. Ed lives in the constituency next door.
    I live in this constituency. The Tories have been very active for some time now - certainly in my area - as have the Lib Dems. Labour have been nowhere to be seen. I don't think you can assume that all the Lib Dem vote will go to Labour nor that it will necessarily collapse. In the local elections - and this where Labour run the Council - there has been zero activity by Labour. I am surprised by that. The fact that Ed M lives nearby is IMO irrelevant. Even amongst Labour sympathisers/supporters I have never heard a good word said for him - as leader - though personally he strikes me as nice enough.

    I would like to vote Lib Dem next time - to show solidarity with Majid Nawaz over the Jesus/Mo cartoon kerfuffle - but the pusillanimous response of the Lib Dem hierarchy and their failure to stand up - unequivocally - for free speech has put me off. If even the Liberal Democrats don't understand liberalism, what hope is there for the rest of us?

    I am not ruling out a Tory victory. What I am saying is that if the Tories do win it will herald a an overall majority for them. I guess we'll find out a lot more after Thursday.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    antifrank said:

    I'm not a great believer in marginals polls. Pollsters are used to weighting to produce balanced polls for national bases and marginals are not to be expected to follow that. It's not so much the sample size as the non-standard base that concerns me.

    That's a really good point, but it's one reason why Ashcroft's approach is interesting.
    Also the Ashcroft marginals asks a two stage voting question – the latter seeking to ask respondees to focus on their own specific seat.
    The differences between the two stages of that voting intention question have often been the most revealing.

    In his marginals polls to date they've shown us that when prompted to consider their specific seat, 2010 Lib Dems are more likely to stick by the Lib Dems in Lib Dem/Conservative marginals and more likely to switch to Labour in Labour/Conservative marginals than when asked the standard question. By contrast, UKIP/Conservative swing voters have shown no such tactical awareness.

    This is directly counter to DavidL's hope that the vote distribution efficiency of the Conservatives will improve relative to Labour's at the next election, so it will be an important result to look at in Ashcroft's latest poll on Saturday.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    antifrank said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Topping - Hampstead is a blue island surrounded by a red sea. Gospel Oak, Swiss Cottage and Kilburn are full of council estates and are very Labour. UKIP is not a factor.

    Yes I get that and I don't think UKIP is a factor but with the polls as they are and a recount-slim majority and losing their totemic MP I don't see how H&K is 2/7 for Lab.

    I imagine that the bookies are assuming, reasonably enough, that the LD vote is going to collapse and break strongly for Labour.

    My rule of thumb is that half the Lib Dem vote will defect and that it will break 3:1 in favour of Labour over the Conservatives. (This ignores UKIP, but both the number of defectors and the ratio are loose assumptions anyway). On this basis, Labour start with a majority of over 4,000 in Hampstead & Kilburn.

    That looks about right to me.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    - "CON doing far better in the marginals than GB as a whole"

    Err...

    CON Target No. 1
    Hampstead and Kilburn (Lab Maj = 42)
    PP:

    Lab 2/7
    Con 7/2
    LD 6/1
    UKIP 80/1

    Which implies one or more of:

    - There's value in the Con price
    - The ComRes figures are on the top side for the Tories in the marginals
    - There are local factors in play in H&K.

    This is a constituency I know pretty well. If the Tories get close next year they will win a substantial overall majority without any doubt at all. I would expect a very safe Labour hold.

    Why

    I don't know the constituency, but met Chris Phelps on a train a few years ago - he did a pretty good job overall*. Admittedly - I'd assume - the LD would probably be more inclined than most to vote tactically, but Glenda is stepping down isn't she? Have the constituency boundaries changed in Labour's favour?

    I'm just wondering why the same result in H&K next time wouldn't imply a broadly similar result nationally, all other things being equal

    * I donated £250 to his campaign

    edit: given that he (or his team) never wrote to say 'thank you' I'm unlikely to do so in future. A computer generated letter, a quick top&tail and a stamp doesn't cost much, folks.
    Chris Philp, not Phelps.

    Top man, went all out at GE2010 very organised on top of all the activity.

    But H&K was not only a fiefdom for GJ but is chock-a-block of a) champagne socialists; and b) grim tower blocks. The latter are natural labour supporters (or were!) while the former are, um, natural labour supporters.

    It will take a lot to shake off the feeling of H&Kers that they are not a noble outpost in the fight against the harsh tories.
    Maybe. But property prices have been skyrocketing here - and the Tories have started sending leaflets round talking about the Lib Dems support for the mansion tax, how they could even want to tax other valuables such as jewellery (no idea if this is true) and how they are the only ones opposing it.

    In our area prices are below the threshold (depending on whom you believe) but they are not so far away that this couldn't change some people's votes. They are not the sort of people who have thousands of pounds lying around spare to pay another tax on their house, on top of the mortgage, council tax, VAT, parking permit, increased tax and NI rates etc etc.

    The number of fantastically rich Guardian-reading champagne socialists in H&K may be over-estimated.

  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    edited May 2014

    In the end, I see something very positive coming out of Labour's current malaise. At some stage, the party - or the centre left generally - will be forced to think much harder about its world view, its policies, its relevance and its messaging...The rise of UKIP pleases me because it makes PR more likely and, hopefully, will make the Tories a more centrist party.

    Trouble is, SO, last time Labour thought "much harder about its world view, its policies, its relevance and its messaging" we ended up with Blair, the Iraq disaster, institutional corruption on a mediaeval Italian scale and, eventually, Gordon Brown.

    If the Tories become more centrist, I am not so sure it will be because of UKIP. In - largely - very effective Coalition with the LibDems, they have finally figured out that economic conservatism coupled with social liberalism is a virtuous and responsible place to be. The fact that the LibDems have been able to work with the Tories for five years assists this, as does UKIP by gladly absorbing what used to be the Tory party's vicious old men wing.

    The greatest favour UKIP did the Tories was when they let in Neil Hamilton.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Nick Clegg just repeated the millions of jobs dependent on EU lie again on TV....

    Yes, and Nigel Farage attempted to repeat the 'David Cameron reneged on his cast-iron guarantee' lie on the Today programme this morning. To his credit, John Humphrys didn't let him get away with that one, whilst (for once) not interrupting every five seconds.

    Other than that, Farage spoke very well. Pressed on the fundamental hole at the centre of UKIP's position - the fact that they claim to want an In/Out referendum, yet are doing everything in their power to sabotage the Tory government which would deliver one - he repeated his belief that Ed Miliband will also promise a referendum. To give him his due, he didn't pussy-foot around on this, he was absolutely certain that Miliband will make such a commitment at the Labour conference in September. Unfortunately, Humphrys didn't ask him the obvious question: what if Miliband doesn't?

    Ed M won't, of course.
    I actually give the benefit of the doubt interpretation on Cameron's cast iron guarantee, but I don't think the alternative interpretation is a "lie". It's a reasonable interpretation. He said if he became PM he would give a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Retrospective referendums have taken place before now, and he didn't explicitly rule such a thing out. Given that he made the pledge in 2007, knowing the treaty would in all likelihood come out before he could become PM, it was really pretty sloppy of him not to be more careful.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Charles said:

    @DavidL - I understand. An extreme eurosceptic is someone who doesn't agree with your views on the EU.

    Nah, don't think he is saying that.

    I'd reckon that probably 90% of the Tory party is Eurosceptic in some degree. Many of them accept the benefits of being a member of the EU, but are increasingly concerned about the costs.

    An extreme Eurosceptic is someone who either:

    (a) Takes the position that membership of the EU is the only question that matters and should be the primary focus at all times. Clearly it cuts across many issues, but equally there is much that we can do to address issues even when there is an EU dimension. Arguably this could be described (a little unfairly) as the "Bill Cash" position

    (b) Someone who would rather see a Europhilic party in power in the remote chance that at some indeterminant time in the future it will create the conditions where possibly maybe a pure blindingly-white party of perfect principle may win a majority in Parliament and lead us into the blessed land of milk and honey. Someone who will cut off their nose to spite their face, in other words: who prefers principled opposition to the realities and compromises of government
    Leaving the EU isn't some sort of perfect unachievable principle. And staying in the EU isn't some necessary "reality of government". It's a choice by the parties in power.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?

    Hampstead is the home of hedge fund managers these days. You'll struggle to find a pleasant family house (of, say 2,000 square feet) for less than £3m. More realistically, you'll be writing a £4m cheque, especially if you want to be within 10 minutes walk of the village.

    The UKIP vote in Hampstead will be very low (I don't even think they're standing in Hampstead or in SeanT's Primrose Hill). People who live in Hampstead (and St John's Wood... and Belsize Park) typically work in incredibly cosmopolitan businesses, where half or fewer of the employees are British.

    Frankly, FT sales outnumber Guardian sales 10-to-1 in North West London. Frankly, La Monde and La Gazetta dela Sporta probably outsell the Guardian.
    I sent my postal vote yesterday (I expected to be out of the country this week). I can confirm there were no Kipper candidates for the ward of Camden Town with Primrose Hill.

    Hampstead is now VERY posh, and must surely be Tory. I expect Belsize Park, Primrose Hill and maybe Camden Town to follow the same route, eventually - especially as Labour and the Lib Dems talk of bringing in a mansion tax.

    It's Gospel Oak and the big council estates south of Mornington Crescent that keep Camden Labour.
    Aren't there a lot of council estates in Camden Town still?
    Depends what you mean by Camden Town, of course.

    Within a mile of the Tube there are quite a few council properties, but Right to Buy is slowly eroding them, AIUI.

    Relatedly there is a new block of flats being built (very very slowly) right next door to me on Delancey St, where it meets Parkway and Primrose Hill. It used to be a tyre garage.

    Planning permission for this development was granted, in 2010, on the basis that these would be 100% affordable homes for key workers.

    And yet, somehow, somewhere along the line, that "affordable houses" thing got quietly dropped, as the Camden property market accelerated. I spoke to the site manager a month ago and he confirmed that all the flats will now be sold privately, with the one bedroom flats probably going on the market at around £700,000.

    There aren't many nurses who can afford a £700,000 one bed flat.

    Curious.

    Any investigative journalist wanting to make his or her name could do worse than spend some time going through the planning applications of the last few years of inner London boroughs.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    An extreme Eurosceptic is one that believes that Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem politicians should be hanged by the neck until dead, and that their voters are guilty of aiding and abetting treason.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    - "CON doing far better in the marginals than GB as a whole"

    Err...

    CON Target No. 1
    Hampstead and Kilburn (Lab Maj = 42)
    PP:

    Lab 2/7
    Con 7/2
    LD 6/1
    UKIP 80/1

    Which implies one or more of:

    - There's value in the Con price
    - The ComRes figures are on the top side for the Tories in the marginals
    - There are local factors in play in H&K.

    This is a constituency I know pretty well. If the Tories get close next year they will win a substantial overall majority without any doubt at all. I would expect a very safe Labour hold.

    Why

    I don't know the constituency, but met Chris Phelps on a train a few years ago - he did a pretty good job overall*. Admittedly - I'd assume - the LD would probably be more inclined than most to vote tactically, but Glenda is stepping down isn't she? Have the constituency boundaries changed in Labour's favour?

    I'm just wondering why the same result in H&K next time wouldn't imply a broadly similar result nationally, all other things being equal

    * I donated £250 to his campaign

    edit: given that he (or his team) never wrote to say 'thank you' I'm unlikely to do so in future. A computer generated letter, a quick top&tail and a stamp doesn't cost much, folks.
    Chris Philp, not Phelps.

    Top man, went all out at GE2010 very organised on top of all the activity.

    But H&K was not only a fiefdom for GJ but is chock-a-block of a) champagne socialists; and b) grim tower blocks. The latter are natural labour supporters (or were!) while the former are, um, natural labour supporters.

    It will take a lot to shake off the feeling of H&Kers that they are not a noble outpost in the fight against the harsh tories.
    Contrary to popular belief, Hampstead proper is reliably Conservative. It's Kilburn and Gospel Oak that provide a huge Labour vote. The Conservatives would have won on the pre-2010 boundaries.
    Of the three council wards that make up Hampstead proper, there are eight Conservative councillors, and one LibDem.

    So the "Hampstead liberal" is yet another piece of mythology. So who keeps buying all of those copies of the Guardian?
    You're assuming that the Guardian is a liberal newspaper. Try reading some of the columnists. Illiberal would be a more apt description.

  • JamesMJamesM Posts: 221
    Good morning all.

    A really interesting discussion this morning involving contributors such as @SouthamObserver and @DavidL about the impact of UKIP on the Conservative Party.

    I am fascinated by brands and wonder if there is any example in other walks of life beyond politics of a brand that got a boost by default because it was looked at more positively in comparison to another? Maybe supermarkets who re-position themselves based on the competition around product value or product quality?

    My initial views on the UKIP-Conservative relationship are by no means fully formed and I guess I am trying to be optimistic as a Conservative supporter in this post that there can be a positive for the party from UKIP's rise. After all, it has happened and is happening so there is little point in ignoring it. Rather maximise the opportunities.

    With this in mind, I do think there can be a positive side for the Conservative Party from UKIP's rise, but it is fraught with risks.

    A political party's identity is undoubtedly shaped by what they say and do, but we should not discount the impact of what others say about it and the way in which voters look at the political spectrum as a whole, make comparative assessments based on policy and perceived party identity, before casting their vote.

    Whether it is fair to regard UKIP as the nasty party or not, as with the Conservatives it is a label that if it sticks can be hard to shake off. Now if the Conservatives are seen as less nasty by default in comparison to UKIP and thus for more voters the worry about voting for them diminishes, this opens opportunities for people to vote for them and the centre-right.

    Where I perhaps differ from a poster like SouthamObserver (my apologies if I misread you here) is that I do not see this process as involving the Conservatives dumping on mass conservative policies. Instead here UKIP's rise may offer another opportunity as they provide a mechanism through which some conservative policies are highlighted by them, and if they are popular (and crucially both work and fit the Conservative Party's principles), then can be essentially stolen by the Conservative Party themselves. I guess it is a little bit like sub-contracting out some policy making to other parties, which every party does. UKIP then can test the waters on conservative policies and the Conservative Party reap some benefits from that.

    At this point I should stress this cannot be the only way or even the main way to determine policy. A party should and must have the confidence and courage to say 'this is what we believe and this is why you should vote for it'; but we would be naive to think this always happens and universally.

    cont../
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Pulpstar - Still want me to stick on a fiver?

    Pp let me have £4.07 online which explains why it fell from 100/1 to 66/1

    Gah My Dads putting the bet on but he's bloody slow aaaaaaaaaaarggh
  • JamesMJamesM Posts: 221
    cont../

    Now there are risks of course with this analysis. The election of a UKIP MP would be an interesting development, how UKIP votes fall in marginals is going to be key, and this strategy assumes MP and membership support in the face of UKIP's continued prominence. It is a strategy that needs patience and ultimately will also require the Conservative Party to deal with the other reputation (largely falsely I should add in my view) that it is an 'out of touch, posh, southern party'. This is a task where the emphasis on empowering policies, the sort that MPs like Robert Halfon highlight is useful. Finally, the party also needs to think how it functions in campaigning terms in the long term, where some members move to UKIP.

    If this strategy worked, then I think the Conservatives can broaden their appeal and eventually in the medium term begin to win back some support from UKIP who want to influence policy and get in power. Defections from UKIP to the Conservatives could even take place too!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Pulpstar, parents are like that.

    Mr. Antifrank, precisely. A moderate EU-sceptic is one who thinks Nick Clegg should be thrown into the North Sea by a trebuchet.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    antifrank said:

    An extreme Eurosceptic is one that believes that Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem politicians should be hanged by the neck until dead, and that their voters are guilty of aiding and abetting treason.

    Does that include being "hung" ; )

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10839448/My-rivals-should-be-hanged-for-treason-says-Ukip-candidate.html
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    MaxPB said:

    The strong retail sales figures are entirely down to Easter. I wouldn't be reading too much into them. Tomorrow's GDP second estimate and PSNB figures are much more important. For retail sales the TTM growth is a more important metric as it eliminates volatility.

    Whilst I agree in principle on the subsidiarity of the Retail Sales figures to GDP and PSNB, April's figures do not just reflect the Easter Weekend falling in April rather than March this year.

    The 'most recent three months on a year earlier' figures, which eliminate the Easter timing issue, show extremely robust growth of 4.6% value and 5.0% volume. These are growth rates not seen since the early noughties.

    One impact of retail sales growth which is unlikely to be picked up in tomorrow's figures is the impact on VAT receipts by the Treasury. The ONS and OBR usually take a conservative estimate of VAT receipts in early releases and subsequent revisions tend to see the figures uprated when retail sales grow faster than GDP. This especially applies when growth in non-food sales has outpaced that of food as has been the case in most months over the past year (but not April 2014).
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    An extreme Eurosceptic is one that believes that Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem politicians should be hanged by the neck until dead, and that their voters are guilty of aiding and abetting treason.

    Does that include being "hung" ; )

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10839448/My-rivals-should-be-hanged-for-treason-says-Ukip-candidate.html
    Hung politicians belong more on the pages of the tabloids, preferably with testimonials from the Cheeky Girls.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    @isam; @Bobafett; @Thescreamingeagles

    Have the position I want on this market now. ~ £7 @71-1 - well I wanted 100s but hey ho.

    I reckon this will be at 15-1 after the Ashcroft polling comes out.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    antifrank said:

    An extreme Eurosceptic is one that believes that Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem politicians should be hanged by the neck until dead, and that their voters are guilty of aiding and abetting treason.

    That's a slightly narrower definition than I had in mind.

    Charles is nearer it in pointing out for the extreme Eurosceptic this is the dominating issue and for most of us it just isn't. Doesn't mean it is not important, doesn't mean we are happy with the status quo, doesn't mean we even rule out the idea of leaving the EU if it did not develop to our advantage. Just not the big overriding issue.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    I am fascinated by brands and wonder if there is any example in other walks of life beyond politics of a brand that got a boost by default because it was looked at more positively in comparison to another?

    Ryanair and Easyjet?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:


    Depends what you mean by Camden Town, of course.

    Within a mile of the Tube there are quite a few council properties, but Right to Buy is slowly eroding them, AIUI.

    Relatedly there is a new block of flats being built (very very slowly) right next door to me on Delancey St, where it meets Parkway and Primrose Hill. It used to be a tyre garage.

    Planning permission for this development was granted, in 2010, on the basis that these would be 100% affordable homes for key workers.

    And yet, somehow, somewhere along the line, that "affordable houses" thing got quietly dropped, as the Camden property market accelerated. I spoke to the site manager a month ago and he confirmed that all the flats will now be sold privately, with the one bedroom flats probably going on the market at around £700,000.

    There aren't many nurses who can afford a £700,000 one bed flat.

    Curious.

    I looked at a flat in Royal College Street a couple years back, and some of the estates round the corner there seemed pretty grim.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Having just seen this article in the Standard, it is amazing that they are letting Ed out at the moment. Anyone with any knowledge of how things work would never allow a political leader to be seen eating like this in public.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband-tucks-into-a-bacon-sandwich-on-a-morning-trip-to-buy-flowers-for-his-wife-9407561.html

    There is no way to look dignified when scoffing a sarnie - and the photos make it look even worse!
  • JamesMJamesM Posts: 221
    @SouthamObserver

    Thanks, yes an interesting example there regarding airlines.

    Ultimately I think what I have taken from your posts is that in political positioning at least UKIP's rise could help the Conservatives. As I note, where I think I will disagree with you is that I don't think this must or indeed should mean the Conservatives become less of a Conservative Party. I think they need to recognise and deal with the anti-establishment and liberal elite challenge facing all parties and reconnect more with the country as a whole. The UKIP rise may actually help them to do this more effectively though, which would be a good thing.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    WRT Camden et al, one of the curious features of Inner London is the existence of council-owned tower blocks, adjoining multi-million pound houses.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited May 2014
    The number of lefty "Don't vote UKIP they eat babies" I'm seeing on Facebook is severely bringing out my contrarian side.

    Toss up between the Cons and UKIP atm for the Euros.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    antifrank said:

    If the newspapers are reduced to printing "man eats sandwich" gaffes, it's hardly surprising that they're losing money hand over fist.

    It's not just meat, it's bacon. This is not an accident. There's a significant anti-Semitic vote out there that Labour is happy to accept or at the very least feels it needs to neutralise; remember the Michael Howard ads.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Simon, nothing wrong with eating a bacon sarnie.

    Not a great photo, but not as bad as David Miliband shaking Brown's hand.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    I am fascinated by brands and wonder if there is any example in other walks of life beyond politics of a brand that got a boost by default because it was looked at more positively in comparison to another?

    Ryanair and Easyjet?

    IIRC HM Samuel and Argos experienced a boost after Gerald Ratner described his own products as a bit Ed Miliband crap

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2014
    Today's Retail Sales figures yellow boxed:
    ============================================================
    Table 1: All Retailing, April 2014
    (seasonally adjusted percentage change)

    Most recent Most recent Most recent Most recent
    month 3 months month 3 months
    on a year on a year on previous on previous
    earlier earlier month 3 months
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Amount 6.2 4.6 0.6 1.1
    spent
    (Value)

    Quantity 6.9 5.0 1.3 1.8
    bought
    (Volume)

    Value 7.6 5.8 1.0 1.3
    excluding
    automotive
    fuel

    Volume 7.7 5.5 1.8 1.7
    excluding
    automotive
    fuel
    ============================================================
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    I in Lisbon at the moment, we actually have loudspeaker vans campaigning in the Euros
This discussion has been closed.