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This has been apparent for years now: Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast cooperate. London sulks.Mexicanpete said:I watched Drakeford at lunchtime.
Normally someone I have no time for. The pandemic has made him appear less of a clown. In fairness he is now coming over as more forthright and self assured than for example Raab earlier and Johnson generally.
More or less on topic i.e Johnson's general performance.
My big takeaway from the press conference was that Drakeford stated he has not spoken with the PM for three weeks this Thursday or any other cabinet member bar the Secretary of State for Wales. He is apparently in regular contact with counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland.0 -
There has of course been much comment on higher deaths rates among certain non-whites sections of the public. Not an irrelevant consideration.Carnyx said:
They have been everywhere, with some variance. And yet if we look at totals, [edit] not just care homes, the Welsh mortality per head is 461/million, comparable to Scotland's 448 and markedly less than England's 666, [edit] and I'm assuming that the latter reporting is finally comparable in terms of totals, which it wasn't for some weeks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Care homes have been a disasterCarnyx said:
Are you sure, given the differential covid-19 mortality figures?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would be a 100% improvementTheuniondivvie said:
Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.justin124 said:
I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many othersjustin124 said:
His poll ratings though have improved.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is in place until september at presentydoethur said:
I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quicklyMexicanpete said:
Off topic.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and WalesHYUFD said:
By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish
It is just idiotic
He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.
He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
Your view that Scotland and Wales are too slow to unlock is one interpretation. But with R still so hign in England, it's at least as reasonable to take the view that England is being too fast. I actually hope not, out of sheer humanity - but we will see.1 -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/feb/24/1865-guardian-stance-us-civil-warBig_G_NorthWales said:
The Guardian's stance on the US civil war was of its era.0 -
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:0 -
London and Belfast are on the same pageStuartDickson said:
This has been apparent for years now: Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast cooperate. London sulks.Mexicanpete said:I watched Drakeford at lunchtime.
Normally someone I have no time for. The pandemic has made him appear less of a clown. In fairness he is now coming over as more forthright and self assured than for example Raab earlier and Johnson generally.
More or less on topic i.e Johnson's general performance.
My big takeaway from the press conference was that Drakeford stated he has not spoken with the PM for three weeks this Thursday or any other cabinet member bar the Secretary of State for Wales. He is apparently in regular contact with counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
And Drakeford has a standing invitation to attend all Cobra meetings.
It is he who stayed away0 -
Someone should tell Morgan they are not boycotting GMB, they are boycotting him personally because he is such an insufferable twat that no one can stand to be in the same room with him.rottenborough said:
(For the record the Government should not be boycotting news channels. But Morgan really is a twat)1 -
It's weaksauce, of course. But I would think the point is made about being wary of throwing stones, even if that may not be the intent of people who just try to lob their own stones.Foxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:1 -
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history2 -
I keep thinking someone is going to jump up and say BAZINGA!!!.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But no one does. This is as juvenile as attacking the Mail because it was sympathetic to the Nazis in the 1930s. In both cases today's papers, whatever their modern failings, cannot and should not be held responsible for the actions and views of people all of whom are long dead.2 -
I thought it was Frank Maguire?kle4 said:
I am frequently amazed at the strength of feeling some have toward the SNP over the whole 'gave us Thatcher' business.Luckyguy1983 said:
Given that the SNP gave us Thatcher, your thanks seem misplaced.Theuniondivvie said:
The Yoons have very short memories, or else they'd mind that it was precisely this inequity that led to devolution as Tony Blair enacted it.Carnyx said:
"Gallwch chi hefyd fod yn rhan o'n hymdrech guro fyd-eang i fod ar frig cynghrair Covid-19 Ewrop." According to Google.Theuniondivvie said:
What's Welsh for 'You too can be part of our world beating effort to be top of the European Covid-19 league'?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would be a 100% improvementTheuniondivvie said:
Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.justin124 said:
I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many othersjustin124 said:
His poll ratings though have improved.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is in place until september at presentydoethur said:
I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quicklyMexicanpete said:
Off topic.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and WalesHYUFD said:
By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish
It is just idiotic
He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.
He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
But there is a serious point. How can you have a minority party control a country while relying on a majority of seats in another country? You don't need to listen to the local MPs any more. You can even experiment on the locals, as we remember all too well from the Poll Tax in Scotland.
Still, thanks lads, you and Maggie Thatcher have ensured (so far) 13 years of SNP government.0 -
There seems to be a determined effort to keep this story going.Foxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But who's interested? A shrivelled rump of the Corbynites and the usual band of pissed up "patriots".
The rest of us have just about lived through a pandemic and are facing economic turmoil.
I don't have the spoons for a Culture War ta.0 -
Is this statement correct in the Sun's articleRichard_Tyndall said:
I keep thinking someone is going to jump up and say BAZINGA!!!.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But no one does. This is as juvenile as attacking the Mail because it was sympathetic to the Nazis in the 1930s. In both cases today's papers, whatever their modern failings, cannot and should not be held responsible for the actions and views of people all of whom are long dead.
'Originally called the Manchester Guardian the paper was founded in 1821 by John Edward Taylor using profits from a cotton plantation that used slaves'0 -
Not a lot of point in democracy then?kle4 said:
It's traditional.Beibheirli_C said:
Are the electorate voting in the wrong kind of politicians?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Labour have been in power in Wales for far too long and to be honest CarwynJones was quite likeable, but Mark Drakeford is a Corbynista and oversees terrible failures in the Wales NHS and education.justin124 said:
I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many othersjustin124 said:
His poll ratings though have improved.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is in place until september at presentydoethur said:
I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quicklyMexicanpete said:
Off topic.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and WalesHYUFD said:
By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish
It is just idiotic
He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.
He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
Devolution is not working in North Wales
It does strike me, and I think most of the public already know it, that even the most atypical of politicians become part of the system eventually, despite their own best efforts perhaps. Even revolutionaries adopt the trappings and stylings at the end. I was reading an old university essay collection on the civil wars, and how the various parliaments of the 1650s, even the brief second chamber of 1657, pretty much immediately acted like any other parliaments ever had, regardless of who the members were or what direction they had. Such endurance.
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To be honest I absolutely share your view because the story in the Sun puts the Guardian in the narrative and just how far and how many stories are we going to endure when the pandemic and the economy should be the only storydixiedean said:
There seems to be a determined effort to keep this story going.Foxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But who's interested? A shrivelled rump of the Corbynites and the usual band of pissed up "patriots".
The rest of us have just about lived through a pandemic and are facing economic turmoil.
I don't have the spoons for a Culture War ta.0 -
But one paper argues that being held responsible for the crimes of one's antecedents is a moral imperative... so why not grant their wish?Richard_Tyndall said:
I keep thinking someone is going to jump up and say BAZINGA!!!.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But no one does. This is as juvenile as attacking the Mail because it was sympathetic to the Nazis in the 1930s. In both cases today's papers, whatever their modern failings, cannot and should not be held responsible for the actions and views of people all of whom are long dead. -1 -
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
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U.S. minister to Britain Charles Francis Adams proved particularly adept and convinced Britain not to boldly challenge the blockade. The Confederacy purchased several warships from commercial shipbuilders in Britain (CSS Alabama, CSS Shenandoah, CSS Tennessee, CSS Tallahassee, CSS Florida, and some others). The most famous, the CSS Alabama, did considerable damage and led to serious postwar disputes. However, public opinion against slavery created a political liability for politicians in Britain, where the antislavery movement was powerful.[1]Foxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War#Diplomacy0 -
But the point is the Guardian was founded on the profits of slaves, and the whole issue is just getting out of hand when we have a pandemic and economy to deal withFoxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?0 -
Another day on the road to recovery hopefully
Good night folks0 -
I think The Guardian can survive this as long as they sack everybody who worked on the paper in 1860Big_G_NorthWales said:9 -
When you go back far enough even the shameful becomes colourful - who wouldn't like to be descended from Blackbeard the Pirate or Lucrezia Borgia? One of my ancestors was a bloodthirsty Borders baron called Black Douglas, because of an unfortunate incident when a feuding neighbour sent an equerry who never returned. The neighbour sent another to ask where he was, to which Douglas repliedFoxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
"You can have him, certainly, he doth but lack his head".
The family retailed the story with a certain ghoulish relish, though none of them would have dreamed of justifying it. (Or erecting a statue to him.)0 -
CSS Alabama was a screw sloop-of-war built in 1862 for the Confederate States Navy at Birkenhead on the River Mersey opposite Liverpool, England by John Laird Sons and Company.[3] Alabama served as a successful commerce raider, attacking Union merchant and naval ships over the course of her two-year career, during which she never docked at a Southern port. She was sunk in June 1864 by USS Kearsarge at the Battle of Cherbourg outside the port of Cherbourg, France.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Is this statement correct in the Sun's articleRichard_Tyndall said:
I keep thinking someone is going to jump up and say BAZINGA!!!.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But no one does. This is as juvenile as attacking the Mail because it was sympathetic to the Nazis in the 1930s. In both cases today's papers, whatever their modern failings, cannot and should not be held responsible for the actions and views of people all of whom are long dead.
'Originally called the Manchester Guardian the paper was founded in 1821 by John Edward Taylor using profits from a cotton plantation that used slaves'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS_Alabama0 -
There is virtually no part of Britain that did not have some peripheral part in the slave trade or empire.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But the point is the Guardian was founded on the profits of slaves, and the whole issue is just getting out of hand when we have a pandemic and economy to deal withFoxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
Decolonisation our history is not about erasing that history, it is about coming to terms with it, and recognising our dark side.1 -
Michael White gone then.CatMan said:
I think The Guardian can survive this as long as they sack everybody who worked on the paper in 1860Big_G_NorthWales said:1 -
Drakeford wasnt someone I had originally warmed to, but I think most reasonable people would say he has had a decent 'pandemic', for all the reasons above. Thank god I'm not English having to put up with Boris Johnson.StuartDickson said:
This has been apparent for years now: Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast cooperate. London sulks.Mexicanpete said:I watched Drakeford at lunchtime.
Normally someone I have no time for. The pandemic has made him appear less of a clown. In fairness he is now coming over as more forthright and self assured than for example Raab earlier and Johnson generally.
More or less on topic i.e Johnson's general performance.
My big takeaway from the press conference was that Drakeford stated he has not spoken with the PM for three weeks this Thursday or any other cabinet member bar the Secretary of State for Wales. He is apparently in regular contact with counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland.1 -
People are creatures of habit aching for a bit of normality. Some desperately wanted a McDonald's, some to traipse round IKEA, some to Primark. @Anabobazina to the Pub.
Likewise Corbynites wanted to protest something, anything. If it weren't this it would have been summat else.
Equally, the Yaxley Lennon fans want to get pissed and have a ruck.
Let's hope they got it out of their system.
I, for one, won't be partaking.0 -
It’s easy to say nice words.Foxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
They should give the assets of the Scott Trust to support appropriate causes. Otherwise they are subsisting on the proceeds of wrongdoing1 -
If only for his disgraceful exclusionary surnameTheuniondivvie said:
Michael White gone then.CatMan said:
I think The Guardian can survive this as long as they sack everybody who worked on the paper in 1860Big_G_NorthWales said:5 -
The Lancashire cotton famine is worth a glance. The slave trade, US Civil War and its impact on the average Briton is complex to say the least.0
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If you are going to continue on this idiotic line then at least get your facts right. The Mechant Venturers did not erect the statue. It was erected by the Anchor Society which was founded to collect money for the poor and elderly of the city.Foxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
3 -
Trans activists write to Sun condemning JK Rowling abuse story
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jun/15/trans-and-non-binary-activists-write-to-sun-in-support-of-jk-rowling
Trans and non-binary activists have written a public letter in support of JK Rowling after the Sun published a front page interview with her ex-husband headlined: “I slapped JK and I’m not sorry.”
The group of campaigners said that while they strongly opposed the Harry Potter author’s stance on trans rights, they stood in solidarity with her against the newspaper’s “abhorrent” approach to a domestic violence story.
“Misogyny is a pervasive force and one that treats survivors and victims of sexual and domestic violence as bylines to their abuser’s story,” the trans and non-binary activists said in the letter to the Sun’s editor, Victoria Newton.
“We stand alongside JK Rowling in this cruel and malicious reporting, which sends a dangerous message to all survivors that their stories are only valid when corroborated by their abusers. It sends a message to all survivors of domestic and sexual violence that they will not be believed, and it is dangerous.”...0 -
No it isnt, since I doubt people agree on what 'coming to terms with it' means, indeed it's a meaningless statement as a result. Particularly when how people come to terms with it very much informs proposals for actions in the here and now.Foxy said:
There is virtually no part of Britain that did not have some peripheral part in the slave trade or empire.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But the point is the Guardian was founded on the profits of slaves, and the whole issue is just getting out of hand when we have a pandemic and economy to deal withFoxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
Decolonisation our history is not about erasing that history, it is about coming to terms with it, and recognising our dark side.
If I disagree with you on actions for what to do now have I failed to come to terms with things? Possibly, possibly not. But conveniently whether I've cone to terms with it or not will be judged by someone other than me regardless of what I think.1 -
Enlightened despotism is all the rage these days. According to those living under the despotism anyway, and they're definitely not made to say that...Beibheirli_C said:
Not a lot of point in democracy then?kle4 said:
It's traditional.Beibheirli_C said:
Are the electorate voting in the wrong kind of politicians?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Labour have been in power in Wales for far too long and to be honest CarwynJones was quite likeable, but Mark Drakeford is a Corbynista and oversees terrible failures in the Wales NHS and education.justin124 said:
I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many othersjustin124 said:
His poll ratings though have improved.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is in place until september at presentydoethur said:
I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quicklyMexicanpete said:
Off topic.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and WalesHYUFD said:
By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish
It is just idiotic
He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.
He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
Devolution is not working in North Wales
It does strike me, and I think most of the public already know it, that even the most atypical of politicians become part of the system eventually, despite their own best efforts perhaps. Even revolutionaries adopt the trappings and stylings at the end. I was reading an old university essay collection on the civil wars, and how the various parliaments of the 1650s, even the brief second chamber of 1657, pretty much immediately acted like any other parliaments ever had, regardless of who the members were or what direction they had. Such endurance.0 -
Trump +1 in Iowa. He won it by 9.4% in 2016.0
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Maybe if England were properly represented by an English government, it wouldn't.StuartDickson said:
This has been apparent for years now: Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast cooperate. London sulks.Mexicanpete said:I watched Drakeford at lunchtime.
Normally someone I have no time for. The pandemic has made him appear less of a clown. In fairness he is now coming over as more forthright and self assured than for example Raab earlier and Johnson generally.
More or less on topic i.e Johnson's general performance.
My big takeaway from the press conference was that Drakeford stated he has not spoken with the PM for three weeks this Thursday or any other cabinet member bar the Secretary of State for Wales. He is apparently in regular contact with counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland.1 -
How many pre-Enlightenment parts of the world didn't have slavery or a slave trade when they could?Foxy said:
There is virtually no part of Britain that did not have some peripheral part in the slave trade or empire.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But the point is the Guardian was founded on the profits of slaves, and the whole issue is just getting out of hand when we have a pandemic and economy to deal withFoxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
Decolonisation our history is not about erasing that history, it is about coming to terms with it, and recognising our dark side.
The Arabs, the Africans, the indigenous civilisations of the new world, the Europeans, the Chinese ...
If they didn't, it was more usually because slavery wasn't profitable in the crops they grew, than for any moral reasons.0 -
However, at this point in the 2016 campaign Clinton was leading the polls in Iowa...Andrew said:Trump +1 in Iowa. He won it by 9.4% in 2016.
0 -
(Should have written serfdom or slavery).Fishing said:
How many pre-Enlightenment parts of the world didn't have slavery or a slave trade when they could?Foxy said:
There is virtually no part of Britain that did not have some peripheral part in the slave trade or empire.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But the point is the Guardian was founded on the profits of slaves, and the whole issue is just getting out of hand when we have a pandemic and economy to deal withFoxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
Decolonisation our history is not about erasing that history, it is about coming to terms with it, and recognising our dark side.
The Arabs, the Africans, the indigenous civilisations of the new world, the Europeans, the Chinese ...
If they didn't, it was more usually because slavery wasn't profitable in the crops they grew, than for any moral reasons.0 -
England can have its own regional or national parliament. All I would say is what earthly function would that leave Boris with?Fishing said:
Maybe if England were properly represented by an English government, it wouldn't.StuartDickson said:
This has been apparent for years now: Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast cooperate. London sulks.Mexicanpete said:I watched Drakeford at lunchtime.
Normally someone I have no time for. The pandemic has made him appear less of a clown. In fairness he is now coming over as more forthright and self assured than for example Raab earlier and Johnson generally.
More or less on topic i.e Johnson's general performance.
My big takeaway from the press conference was that Drakeford stated he has not spoken with the PM for three weeks this Thursday or any other cabinet member bar the Secretary of State for Wales. He is apparently in regular contact with counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
0 -
Drakeford was a rabbit in the headlights in March, he has subsequently grown in the pandemic management role.valleyboy said:
Drakeford wasnt someone I had originally warmed to, but I think most reasonable people would say he has had a decent 'pandemic', for all the reasons above. Thank god I'm not English having to put up with Boris Johnson.StuartDickson said:
This has been apparent for years now: Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast cooperate. London sulks.Mexicanpete said:I watched Drakeford at lunchtime.
Normally someone I have no time for. The pandemic has made him appear less of a clown. In fairness he is now coming over as more forthright and self assured than for example Raab earlier and Johnson generally.
More or less on topic i.e Johnson's general performance.
My big takeaway from the press conference was that Drakeford stated he has not spoken with the PM for three weeks this Thursday or any other cabinet member bar the Secretary of State for Wales. He is apparently in regular contact with counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
I genuinely cannot believe how Johnson is getting away with the bluster and subterfuge. How many more dead cats before the table collapses.0 -
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.williamglenn said:
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history1 -
I think it's the same catMexicanpete said:
Drakeford was a rabbit in the headlights in March, he has subsequently grown in the pandemic management role.valleyboy said:
Drakeford wasnt someone I had originally warmed to, but I think most reasonable people would say he has had a decent 'pandemic', for all the reasons above. Thank god I'm not English having to put up with Boris Johnson.StuartDickson said:
This has been apparent for years now: Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast cooperate. London sulks.Mexicanpete said:I watched Drakeford at lunchtime.
Normally someone I have no time for. The pandemic has made him appear less of a clown. In fairness he is now coming over as more forthright and self assured than for example Raab earlier and Johnson generally.
More or less on topic i.e Johnson's general performance.
My big takeaway from the press conference was that Drakeford stated he has not spoken with the PM for three weeks this Thursday or any other cabinet member bar the Secretary of State for Wales. He is apparently in regular contact with counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
I genuinely cannot believe how Johnson is getting away with the bluster and subterfuge. How many more dead cats before the table collapses.
0 -
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
By their nature the silent majority are tricky to spot.
My sense is that they have not the psychic energy for this. But that may just be me.0 -
Where is Starmer letting that prize prat Lammy get air time whilst he hides in the shadows?HYUFD said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.williamglenn said:
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history0 -
"A very Swedish sort of failure
A flawed policy on Covid-19 was driven by the country’s exceptionalism
GIDEON RACHMAN"
https://www.ft.com/content/4f6ad356-9f61-4728-a9aa-3fa1f232035a0 -
By their nature the silent majority are tricky to spot.dixiedean said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
My sense is that they have not the psychic energy for this. But that may just be me.
The silent majority has a breaking point more accurately a "fuck it I'm not 'avin' that" point. That will be apparent to all, even the Beeb, not that it'll care.0 -
The silent majority has a breaking point more accurately a "fuck it I'm not 'avin' that" point. That will be apparent to all, even the Beeb, not that it'll care.alterego said:
By their nature the silent majority are tricky to spot.dixiedean said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
My sense is that they have not the psychic energy for this. But that may just be me.
That sort of got fogged
0 -
That sort of got foggedalterego said:
The silent majority has a breaking point more accurately a "fuck it I'm not 'avin' that" point. That will be apparent to all, even the Beeb, not that it'll care.alterego said:
By their nature the silent majority are tricky to spot.dixiedean said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
My sense is that they have not the psychic energy for this. But that may just be me.
I don't know whether that's me. I'll reboot0 -
It is the commoditisation of slavery which sets the Atlantic trade apart. There is a distinction between enslaving people to grow food for you, or enslaving them because the only realistic options for dealing with prisoners of war are death or slavery, and slavery purely to derive cash profit from, ultimately, the frivolous desire for mass produced cotton clothing and sugar in one's tea. I am sure there's stacks of counter examples to this, but nothing on this scale from supposedly advanced (even if technically pre-enlightenment, initially) Christian nations.Fishing said:
(Should have written serfdom or slavery).Fishing said:
How many pre-Enlightenment parts of the world didn't have slavery or a slave trade when they could?Foxy said:
There is virtually no part of Britain that did not have some peripheral part in the slave trade or empire.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But the point is the Guardian was founded on the profits of slaves, and the whole issue is just getting out of hand when we have a pandemic and economy to deal withFoxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
Decolonisation our history is not about erasing that history, it is about coming to terms with it, and recognising our dark side.
The Arabs, the Africans, the indigenous civilisations of the new world, the Europeans, the Chinese ...
If they didn't, it was more usually because slavery wasn't profitable in the crops they grew, than for any moral reasons.1 -
Johnson now directly employing LM/Spiked vermin. It won't be too long now.williamglenn said:
0 -
Baroness Claire Fox as the new Minister for Ideas.Mango said:0 -
That sort of got foggedalterego said:
The silent majority has a breaking point more accurately a "fuck it I'm not 'avin' that" point. That will be apparent to all, even the Beeb, not that it'll care.alterego said:
By their nature the silent majority are tricky to spot.dixiedean said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
My sense is that they have not the psychic energy for this. But that may just be me.
Yes. Me too. It is late and blockquote won't co-operate...0 -
I'm sure there are lots of us who don't take sugar in out tea.IshmaelZ said:
It is the commoditisation of slavery which sets the Atlantic trade apart. There is a distinction between enslaving people to grow food for you, or enslaving them because the only realistic options for dealing with prisoners of war are death or slavery, and slavery purely to derive cash profit from, ultimately, the frivolous desire for mass produced cotton clothing and sugar in one's tea. I am sure there's stacks of counter examples to this, but nothing on this scale from supposedly advanced (even if technically pre-enlightenment, initially) Christian nations.Fishing said:
(Should have written serfdom or slavery).Fishing said:
How many pre-Enlightenment parts of the world didn't have slavery or a slave trade when they could?Foxy said:
There is virtually no part of Britain that did not have some peripheral part in the slave trade or empire.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But the point is the Guardian was founded on the profits of slaves, and the whole issue is just getting out of hand when we have a pandemic and economy to deal withFoxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
Decolonisation our history is not about erasing that history, it is about coming to terms with it, and recognising our dark side.
The Arabs, the Africans, the indigenous civilisations of the new world, the Europeans, the Chinese ...
If they didn't, it was more usually because slavery wasn't profitable in the crops they grew, than for any moral reasons.0 -
Yes. Me too. It is late and blockquote won't co-operate...dixiedean said:
That sort of got foggedalterego said:
The silent majority has a breaking point more accurately a "fuck it I'm not 'avin' that" point. That will be apparent to all, even the Beeb, not that it'll care.alterego said:
By their nature the silent majority are tricky to spot.dixiedean said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
My sense is that they have not the psychic energy for this. But that may just be me.
Glad I'm not alone.0 -
WTF does that mean?Mango said:0 -
Glad I'm not alone.alterego said:
Yes. Me too. It is late and blockquote won't co-operate...dixiedean said:
That sort of got foggedalterego said:
The silent majority has a breaking point more accurately a "fuck it I'm not 'avin' that" point. That will be apparent to all, even the Beeb, not that it'll care.alterego said:
By their nature the silent majority are tricky to spot.dixiedean said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
My sense is that they have not the psychic energy for this. But that may just be me.
It's still not working - tech eh?0 -
Glad I'm not alone.alterego said:
Yes. Me too. It is late and blockquote won't co-operate...dixiedean said:
That sort of got foggedalterego said:
The silent majority has a breaking point more accurately a "fuck it I'm not 'avin' that" point. That will be apparent to all, even the Beeb, not that it'll care.alterego said:
By their nature the silent majority are tricky to spot.dixiedean said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
My sense is that they have not the psychic energy for this. But that may just be me.
So late we appear to have entirely switched characters. A true alter ego!
Good night.0 -
It's still not working - tech eh?alterego said:
Glad I'm not alone.alterego said:
Yes. Me too. It is late and blockquote won't co-operate...dixiedean said:
That sort of got foggedalterego said:
The silent majority has a breaking point more accurately a "fuck it I'm not 'avin' that" point. That will be apparent to all, even the Beeb, not that it'll care.alterego said:
By their nature the silent majority are tricky to spot.dixiedean said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
My sense is that they have not the psychic energy for this. But that may just be me.
They're picking on us oldies
0 -
Giving up the ghost0
-
It's ok now, it comes from villein-free Norfolk beet farms. Mass produced cotton clothing otoh...alterego said:
I'm sure there are lots of us who don't take sugar in out tea.IshmaelZ said:
It is the commoditisation of slavery which sets the Atlantic trade apart. There is a distinction between enslaving people to grow food for you, or enslaving them because the only realistic options for dealing with prisoners of war are death or slavery, and slavery purely to derive cash profit from, ultimately, the frivolous desire for mass produced cotton clothing and sugar in one's tea. I am sure there's stacks of counter examples to this, but nothing on this scale from supposedly advanced (even if technically pre-enlightenment, initially) Christian nations.Fishing said:
(Should have written serfdom or slavery).Fishing said:
How many pre-Enlightenment parts of the world didn't have slavery or a slave trade when they could?Foxy said:
There is virtually no part of Britain that did not have some peripheral part in the slave trade or empire.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But the point is the Guardian was founded on the profits of slaves, and the whole issue is just getting out of hand when we have a pandemic and economy to deal withFoxy said:
No, Manchester was a cotton town, built on the slave based cotton trade. That much is true of the genesis of much of early British industry. No one is denying history.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Forget shooting the messangerFoxy said:
A petition started by the Conservative Party supporting Sun Journalist Tony Parsons is quite obviously a set up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you saying the story is false about the Guardian and its history
Where the difference lies is how people and institutions have travelled and how they regard that history now The Guardian is well known for opposing racism, while the Merchant Venturers erected a statue to celebrate a slaver.
We have all got a number of shameful aspects to our pasts, but have we repented and turned away from them?
Decolonisation our history is not about erasing that history, it is about coming to terms with it, and recognising our dark side.
The Arabs, the Africans, the indigenous civilisations of the new world, the Europeans, the Chinese ...
If they didn't, it was more usually because slavery wasn't profitable in the crops they grew, than for any moral reasons.0 -
https://twitter.com/harikunzru/status/1272686168723906563?s=21alterego said:
WTF does that mean?Mango said:0 -
0
-
For a different view in Trump's re-election chances: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/15/trump-glide-reelection-republican-officials-3164571
-
"This disastrous lockdown can never be repeated, even if the virus returns
That is why ministers must listen to Tony Blair and prepare for Covid testing on a truly massive scale
WILLIAM HAGUE"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/15/disastrous-lockdown-can-never-repeated-even-virus-returns/0 -
Thanks for the link. All I can think of is the BBC exit poll showing 61% dissatisfaction with Trump at the start of their election night show. A few hours later he wins by 306 to 232 ECV.rcs1000 said:For a different view in Trump's re-election chances: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/15/trump-glide-reelection-republican-officials-316457
0 -
+999,999,999,999Richard_Tyndall said:
Someone should tell Morgan they are not boycotting GMB, they are boycotting him personally because he is such an insufferable twat that no one can stand to be in the same room with him.rottenborough said:
(For the record the Government should not be boycotting news channels. But Morgan really is a twat)0 -
It would be mildly amusing if Trump won the popular vote, but lost the Electoral College.Andy_JS said:
Thanks for the link. All I can think of is the BBC exit poll showing 61% dissatisfaction with Trump at the start of their election night show. A few hours later he wins by 306 to 232 ECV.rcs1000 said:For a different view in Trump's re-election chances: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/15/trump-glide-reelection-republican-officials-316457
0 -
To be fair, if you'd seen "Clinton wins popular vote by 2.1%", you would have assumed she was going to be President. The scale of the mismatch between PV and EC was unprecedented.Andy_JS said:
Thanks for the link. All I can think of is the BBC exit poll showing 61% dissatisfaction with Trump at the start of their election night show. A few hours later he wins by 306 to 232 ECV.rcs1000 said:For a different view in Trump's re-election chances: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/15/trump-glide-reelection-republican-officials-316457
1 -
0
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GUO of vermin ...alterego said:
WTF does that mean?Mango said:0 -
I strenuously object to you speaking of Piers Morgan in such a froendly manner.rcs1000 said:
+999,999,999,999Richard_Tyndall said:
Someone should tell Morgan they are not boycotting GMB, they are boycotting him personally because he is such an insufferable twat that no one can stand to be in the same room with him.rottenborough said:
(For the record the Government should not be boycotting news channels. But Morgan really is a twat) 0 -
..friendly...squareroot2 said:
I strenuously object to you speaking of Piers Morgan in such a froendly manner.rcs1000 said:
+999,999,999,999Richard_Tyndall said:
Someone should tell Morgan they are not boycotting GMB, they are boycotting him personally because he is such an insufferable twat that no one can stand to be in the same room with him.rottenborough said:
(For the record the Government should not be boycotting news channels. But Morgan really is a twat)0 -
I concur.Fishing said:
Maybe if England were properly represented by an English government, it wouldn't.StuartDickson said:
This has been apparent for years now: Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast cooperate. London sulks.Mexicanpete said:I watched Drakeford at lunchtime.
Normally someone I have no time for. The pandemic has made him appear less of a clown. In fairness he is now coming over as more forthright and self assured than for example Raab earlier and Johnson generally.
More or less on topic i.e Johnson's general performance.
My big takeaway from the press conference was that Drakeford stated he has not spoken with the PM for three weeks this Thursday or any other cabinet member bar the Secretary of State for Wales. He is apparently in regular contact with counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland.0 -
Interesting - and very unlucky unless the travellers are twats who had symptoms. Shows the dangers of opening up travel.Scott_xP said:0 -
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Just a touch of the Merkel’s, possibly ?Scott_xP said:Does he have parkinsons?
https://twitter.com/AdamParkhomenko/status/1272304719210438658
Strange to think they might have something in common.0 -
Allo, allo...squareroot2 said:
I strenuously object to you speaking of Piers Morgan in such a froendly manner.rcs1000 said:
+999,999,999,999Richard_Tyndall said:
Someone should tell Morgan they are not boycotting GMB, they are boycotting him personally because he is such an insufferable twat that no one can stand to be in the same room with him.rottenborough said:
(For the record the Government should not be boycotting news channels. But Morgan really is a twat)0 -
Mr. B, good moaning, everyone.0
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I see Munira Mirza is another "not the right type of BAME person".0
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So why is so little of it taught, in the gap between the Tudors and the Twentieth Century ?HYUFD said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
The history of the slave trade and empire is pretty well ignored.
0 -
The Tory version of the Shami investigation...williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/harikunzru/status/1272686168723906563?s=21alterego said:
WTF does that mean?Mango said:1 -
0
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When you've met one, you've met them all.Andy_JS said:
- bit prejudiced, don't you think?0 -
I see Munira Mirza is another right type of revolutionary communist.tlg86 said:I see Munira Mirza is another "not the right type of BAME person".
0 -
I maintain that national exceptionalism is not, er, exceptional and so usually as a critique it is flawed. However, several months ago there were plenty of rather smug comments reported out if Sweden about why their policy would risk because of uniqueness of the swedes, when if it did work it seemed unlikely to be because if something inherently exceptional.Andy_JS said:"A very Swedish sort of failure
A flawed policy on Covid-19 was driven by the country’s exceptionalism
GIDEON RACHMAN"
https://www.ft.com/content/4f6ad356-9f61-4728-a9aa-3fa1f232035a0 -
Yes but its the right type of prejudicelogical_song said:0 -
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Although the graphic looks dramatic, just an 8% lead five months out from the election still worries me.
On the other hand, for all the talk about Biden's senility that video of Trump is disturbing, following hot on the heels of the two handed drinking. He has a medical problem I think?0 -
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I thought the period was glorified not ignored, which is it?Nigelb said:
So why is so little of it taught, in the gap between the Tudors and the Twentieth Century ?HYUFD said:
The silent majority are patriotic and want our culture and heritage respected.
Equal opportunities does not mean ignoring our history
The history of the slave trade and empire is pretty well ignored.
I think our teaching of history has some pretty glaring omissions - I was not once taught at school about the civil wars of the 1640s and 1650s for instance - and I suspect the silent majority are not overly proud or overly condemnatory, they are overly apathetic.
We dont know enough about history in general, which is why we get overly defensive or overly emotional in a negative sense by viewing too much of it through the prism of present politics, shorn of any national or global context.0 -
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NEW THREAD0
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It takes two sides to fight a culture war, he cannot wage it alone. Therefore I suspect what he wants to do is, while not unimportant, also is not definitive.Scott_xP said:0
This discussion has been closed.