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  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,767
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BLM probably regards mixed-race marriages as problematic.

    Get to fuck.
    Yes, but you do in any marriage.
    You’ve never read I, Claudius I take it?
    That would be a Grave omission. I have but I found it stupefyingly boring (no dialogue...) and remember nothing about it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BLM probably regards mixed-race marriages as problematic.

    Get to fuck.
    Yes, but you do in any marriage.
    You’ve never read I, Claudius I take it?
    That would be a Grave omission. I have but I found it stupefyingly boring (no dialogue...) and remember nothing about it.
    Was that on a Roman holiday?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629

    Was also proud of 'Ajockalypse Now' on GE2015 night on the nightmare for SLAB.

    I lay claim to Socialist Distancing!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    We read disgraced ex-MP Fiona Onasanya's autobiography and it was... a lot

    It includes the words 'strictly dickly'

    https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/fiona-onasanya-peterborough-autobiography-snakesadders-17769226

    Ugh.

    RF Delderfield could never end a sentence without an exclamation mark, but oooof, her prose style as quoted is awful.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,522

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:
    What is she doing these days? Does anyone know?
    Porridge.
    She prefers that to Coco Pops!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Carnyx said:

    Was also proud of 'Ajockalypse Now' on GE2015 night on the nightmare for SLAB.

    I remember Mr Murphy, then head of SLAB, predicting he wouldn't lose a single Labour parliamentary seat in Scotland to the SNP.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/14/snp-scottish-labour-murphy-poll

    Now THAT was a real Delphic oracle, from the unconscious presumably.
    Well, he was quite correct. He didn’t lose a single Scottish seat.

    He lost all but a single Scottish seat, which is quite different.
  • ydoethur said:

    We read disgraced ex-MP Fiona Onasanya's autobiography and it was... a lot

    It includes the words 'strictly dickly'

    https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/fiona-onasanya-peterborough-autobiography-snakesadders-17769226

    Ugh.

    RF Delderfield could never end a sentence without an exclamation mark, but oooof, her prose style as quoted is awful.
    The hilarious and brutal Amazon reviews of former Peterborough MP Fiona Onasanya's book

    One savage review read: "This book should be rated by how long it will burn in a wood stove, because that's it's only reason for existence."

    https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/exmp-fiona-onasanya-peterborough-book-17867331
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BLM probably regards mixed-race marriages as problematic.

    Get to fuck.
    Yes, but you do in any marriage.
    You’ve never read I, Claudius I take it?
    That would be a Grave omission. I have but I found it stupefyingly boring (no dialogue...) and remember nothing about it.
    I was thinking of the weird poem at the start where he goes through the Caesars and says each of them had unconsummated marriages.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Netflix pull blackface episode of It's Always Sunny. The point of that series is to hate the characters because they are all so awful, that episode is literally a piss take of the kind of people who think blackface is a reasonable thing to do.

    Who is the culture minister? I think it's time for a strongly worded letter to streaming companies saying that censorship is not on and all TV shows must be restored immediately.

    The idea that the government gets to mandate editorial decisions (probably temporary) of media companies is even less... on.
    Indeed. What Netflix broadcasts is up to Netflix so long as it's not breaking the law.

    Why certain people who are supposed to be right wing and believe in a free market suddenly want big government getting involved telling private companies what to do is beyond me.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629
    isam said:

    isam said:
    The monkey does the white chocolate coco pops too. Is that cultural appropriation or slave labour?


    Many species of gibbons are interracial - the males are black and the females blonde.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Was also proud of 'Ajockalypse Now' on GE2015 night on the nightmare for SLAB.

    I remember Mr Murphy, then head of SLAB, predicting he wouldn't lose a single Labour parliamentary seat in Scotland to the SNP.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/14/snp-scottish-labour-murphy-poll

    Now THAT was a real Delphic oracle, from the unconscious presumably.
    Well, he was quite correct. He didn’t lose a single Scottish seat.

    He lost all but a single Scottish seat, which is quite different.
    Oh. Obviously you discern grammatical subtleties beyond me. But surely he didn't lose that particular single seat ...? It was still hubris on a Croesus scale.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,549
    ydoethur said:

    isam said:
    What is she doing these days? Does anyone know?
    No but I bet Kelloggs drop the monkey before the end of the month
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,605
    I’m not generally in favour of footballers expressing themselves on the issues of the day. The results are generally embarrassing and lacking in self-awareness. But here’s an exception:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53042684

  • isamisam Posts: 38,522

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:
    What is she doing these days? Does anyone know?
    No but I bet Kelloggs drop the monkey before the end of the month
    I reckon you're right. It has been complained about before, and replaced in America

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_Krispies
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,733

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    Not if Scotland and Wales avoid a second wave and England succumbs. Maybe Johnson will be lucky enough for his gambles to pay off. Let's hope so.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    edited June 2020
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    Just a thought, but can one bet yet on the change in seats in the House in the 2022 midterms? People who think Biden will win might want to consider betting on a number of Democrat losses in the House, as happened in LBJ's, Carter's, Clinton's and Obama's first midterms.

    LBJ -47
    Carter -15
    Clinton -54
    Obama -63

    If Biden does win it will very likely be a GOP Congress again in 2022, if Trump wins again however the House will likely see an increased Democratic majority and the Senate will also likely go Democrat
    Very true in da House. Biden may be able to beat Trump, but he's no George W Bush, the last President to put on (a few) House Seats in his first midterm. Before that, you need to go back to Franklin Roosevelt in 1934, I think, and before that to Teddy Roosevelt more than a century ago.

    In the Senate, I'm not so convinced. Trump and George W Bush both won seats in their first midterms. But the Republicans are defending almost twice as many seats as the Dems so maybe.
    Trump lost house seats at his first midterms. Obama did too. Ditto Clinton.

    George W Bush gained seats, but only a few, and only in the very special circumstances of the aftermath of 9/11.

    Pretty much every other President loses ground in the House at their first midterms.

    Even Reagan had a miserable first set of House results, dropping 26 districts.

    Indeed, in the last half century, I think only George W Bush gained in the House in their first midterms.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,038

    Covid-19 and BLM are for Donald Trump, what Katrina was for George W. Bush, and what the Bonus Army was for Herbert Hoover: key events that demonstrated to millions who had voted FOR these presidents, that they had made the WRONG choice.

    In 1932 these folks lost faith in the "Great Engineer" and elected a man in a wheelchair. In 2008 they lost faith in "Compassionate Conservatism" and voted for a Black man. And in 2020 they've lost faith in "MAGA" and "The Art of the Deal" and will turn to Uncle Joe for all his faults.

    Note how the whole Putinist "Biden is Gaga" meme does NOT have traction, to put it mildly. Uncle Joe mis-speaking, etc. is NOT evidence that he's senile - it's proof that he's Joe Biden! In other words, he's ALWAYS been that way.

    Trump's problem after four long years, is that he too is the same guy he's always been. Except now his demerits are obvious, not just to his opponents, but to millions of his own supporters. Admittedly, most of these millions will continue giving him their votes. But NOT as many as in 2016.

    One last thought for the moment: note that right now in America, the easiest way for ANY institution to win favor with the general public, is by publicly DISAGREEING with Donald Trump.

    NASCAR is the most prominent example - just as Trumpsky is yet again wrapping himself in the Confederate Flag, NASCAR - which one welcomed him to it's races with one arms - has banned his favor banner.

    If that ain't a sea change, then no such thing as salt water!

    Good post.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,733
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    Never been a Drakeford fan, but he is becoming quite forthright in his press conferences.

    As BigG asserts Gething and Drakeford may well be wrong, but at least they are trying to follow advice rather than knee-jerk responses for short term political gain. They may well get spanked next year for their efforts.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364
    Evening all :)

    A few observations on the eve of a Royal Ascot unlike any other.

    Out and about this evening in downtown East Ham, fewer people wearing masks and the last vestiges of lockdown seem to have faded away. Social distancing more honoured in the breach than the observance and regrettably the normal urban selfish impatience of some to the fore.

    There seems a precipitant rush to "normality" (whatever that is). I'm not sure queuing to get into Primark is that normal though I would join any queue to get out of the store. Primark doesn't have an online presence which might explain the queues.

    I've not ventured to a betting shop but I'm far from convinced they will be anything like they were.

    The Spectator informs me London is now "free" of covid-19 but apparently 20% of Londoners have had the infection and this is the new theory - the glass ceiling of the virus. 20% so that would mean 70,000 infections in Newham. I just don't see it - perhaps a significant number are asymptomatic - they'd have to be otherwise the hospitals would have been inundated.

    I don't believe the 20% figure - I calculated 7% tops. Is this more disinformation or misinformation or just informed guesswork?

    That brings me back to Ascot (this isn't just thrown together) - at bigger prices I fancy MOHATHER in the Queen Anne and LIBERTY BEACH in the King's Stand. I'm leaving the Ribblesdale and the King Edward VII alone. DAARIK may be a typical Gosden group horse in the Buckingham Palace Handicap but I prefer KAESO.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BLM probably regards mixed-race marriages as problematic.

    Get to fuck.
    Yes, but you do in any marriage.
    You’ve never read I, Claudius I take it?
    That would be a Grave omission. I have but I found it stupefyingly boring (no dialogue...) and remember nothing about it.
    Really? I loved it (and its sequel).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232
    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BLM probably regards mixed-race marriages as problematic.

    Get to fuck.
    Yes, but you do in any marriage.
    It's when you're made to..
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,263
    edited June 2020
    You can lead a hearse to water, but you can't make it sink.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,887

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,887

    This might not be a popular view on here, but I read this as both the UK and the EU wanting a deal. The mood music has changed. Both Boris and the EU Commission are waxing lyrical about it:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53048164

    If I were to guess I'd say that both sides have agreed to make police co-operation a non-issue (some evidence of that today) and the EU will compromise on fishing and the UK on level-playing field.

    A fudge will be agreed on supervisory governance.

    There's a deal to be made on this basis. Governance will probably be closer to the EU proposal because they run the system.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,496
    FF43 said:

    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.

    One of them is probably right

    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1272567441730781185
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    Tell 'em you're Eadric, you'll be fine.
    Unfortunately - or perhaps fortunately - as I am always sober and treat women with respect, they would never believe me.
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    A few observations on the eve of a Royal Ascot unlike any other.

    Out and about this evening in downtown East Ham, fewer people wearing masks and the last vestiges of lockdown seem to have faded away. Social distancing more honoured in the breach than the observance and regrettably the normal urban selfish impatience of some to the fore.

    There seems a precipitant rush to "normality" (whatever that is). I'm not sure queuing to get into Primark is that normal though I would join any queue to get out of the store. Primark doesn't have an online presence which might explain the queues.

    I've not ventured to a betting shop but I'm far from convinced they will be anything like they were.

    The Spectator informs me London is now "free" of covid-19 but apparently 20% of Londoners have had the infection and this is the new theory - the glass ceiling of the virus. 20% so that would mean 70,000 infections in Newham. I just don't see it - perhaps a significant number are asymptomatic - they'd have to be otherwise the hospitals would have been inundated.

    I don't believe the 20% figure - I calculated 7% tops. Is this more disinformation or misinformation or just informed guesswork?

    That brings me back to Ascot (this isn't just thrown together) - at bigger prices I fancy MOHATHER in the Queen Anne and LIBERTY BEACH in the King's Stand. I'm leaving the Ribblesdale and the King Edward VII alone. DAARIK may be a typical Gosden group horse in the Buckingham Palace Handicap but I prefer KAESO.

    The first day of compulsory mask wearing in the hospital seems to have been well observed. Civilians not wearing them were in a pretty small minority.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.
    'Stay at home' is just too easy and she is risking an enormous backlash from the thousands of job loses she is facilitating, especially in the hotel and leisure industry

    Edinburgh is in a desperate position and needs tourism back and shops open now
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,038
    Someone was talking about an enthusiasm gap, based on fundraising...
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/502775-biden-dnc-raised-nearly-81-million-in-may
  • Evening all.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.
    'Stay at home' is just too easy and she is risking an enormous backlash from the thousands of job loses she is facilitating, especially in the hotel and leisure industry

    Edinburgh is in a desperate position and needs tourism back and shops open now
    Sturgeon's natural approach is totalitarian - restrict people's freedoms wherever possible.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,887
    edited June 2020

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.
    'Stay at home' is just too easy and she is risking an enormous backlash from the thousands of job loses she is facilitating, especially in the hotel and leisure industry

    Edinburgh is in a desperate position and needs tourism back and shops open now
    It's not a case of 'stay at home' being too easy or that Sturgeon is facilitating thousands of job losses. The only issues are when and how to safely exit from lockdown so the epidemic doesn't pick up again and we can return to some semblance of normality. An almost entirely suppressed epidemic is a necessary condition for economic recovery. It's a balance of risks and Sturgeon may or may not be getting that balance right but she's clearly thinking about it.

    You're not presenting the problem in the right way IMO.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,154

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Doesn't that rather turn on what you mean by 'another ethnic group'?

    For many of my relatives this would suggest anyone from outside Essex.
    I draw the line at Lancastrians.
    It's good to have standards.
    I do have standards, it's just that they are lower than everybody else's standards.
    These are my standards, but if you don’t like them I have others.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,775
    MaxPB said:

    Netflix pull blackface episode of It's Always Sunny. The point of that series is to hate the characters because they are all so awful, that episode is literally a piss take of the kind of people who think blackface is a reasonable thing to do.

    Who is the culture minister? I think it's time for a strongly worded letter to streaming companies saying that censorship is not on and all TV shows must be restored immediately.

    I surprised Curb Your Enthusiasm hasn't been "cancelled" yet. Larry David is not afraid of taboo topics in his comedy, and Larry is endlessly offending people about things like race, religion, sex, disability, and gender; and boy does it serve up stereotypes by the dozen.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.
    'Stay at home' is just too easy and she is risking an enormous backlash from the thousands of job loses she is facilitating, especially in the hotel and leisure industry

    Edinburgh is in a desperate position and needs tourism back and shops open now
    It's not a case of 'stay at home' being too easy or that Sturgeon is facilitating thousands of job losses. The only issues are when and how to safely exit from lockdown so the epidemic doesn't pick up again and we can return to some semblance of normality. An almost entirely suppressed epidemic is a necessary condition for economic recovery. It's a balance of risks and Sturgeon may or may not be getting that balance right but she's clearly thinking about it.

    You're not presenting the problem in the right way IMO.
    I believe I am and she is very much 'stay at home' because she is 'feart' of taking the iniative and opening the economy.

    With reports of crowds flocking to London and Chester Zoos while Edinburgh Zoo, on Sturgeons command, faces insolvency and the slaughter of it's animals lets see the response in Scotland
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,154

    Covid-19 and BLM are for Donald Trump, what Katrina was for George W. Bush, and what the Bonus Army was for Herbert Hoover: key events that demonstrated to millions who had voted FOR these presidents, that they had made the WRONG choice.

    In 1932 these folks lost faith in the "Great Engineer" and elected a man in a wheelchair. In 2008 they lost faith in "Compassionate Conservatism" and voted for a Black man. And in 2020 they've lost faith in "MAGA" and "The Art of the Deal" and will turn to Uncle Joe for all his faults.

    Note how the whole Putinist "Biden is Gaga" meme does NOT have traction, to put it mildly. Uncle Joe mis-speaking, etc. is NOT evidence that he's senile - it's proof that he's Joe Biden! In other words, he's ALWAYS been that way.

    Trump's problem after four long years, is that he too is the same guy he's always been. Except now his demerits are obvious, not just to his opponents, but to millions of his own supporters. Admittedly, most of these millions will continue giving him their votes. But NOT as many as in 2016.

    One last thought for the moment: note that right now in America, the easiest way for ANY institution to win favor with the general public, is by publicly DISAGREEING with Donald Trump.

    NASCAR is the most prominent example - just as Trumpsky is yet again wrapping himself in the Confederate Flag, NASCAR - which one welcomed him to it's races with one arms - has banned his favor banner.

    If that ain't a sea change, then no such thing as salt water!

    Great to see Sea Shanty back on PB!
  • Keir ratings holding steady
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095

    isam said:
    Wait until she discovers Tony the Tiger . . .
    What the hell is wrong with some of these Labour MPs? First the letter to Priti Patel saying that she can't possibly have been called a Paki cos she's an evil Tory, and now Snap, Crackle and Pop signify white supremacy
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,263

    Covid-19 and BLM are for Donald Trump, what Katrina was for George W. Bush, and what the Bonus Army was for Herbert Hoover: key events that demonstrated to millions who had voted FOR these presidents, that they had made the WRONG choice.

    In 1932 these folks lost faith in the "Great Engineer" and elected a man in a wheelchair. In 2008 they lost faith in "Compassionate Conservatism" and voted for a Black man. And in 2020 they've lost faith in "MAGA" and "The Art of the Deal" and will turn to Uncle Joe for all his faults.

    Note how the whole Putinist "Biden is Gaga" meme does NOT have traction, to put it mildly. Uncle Joe mis-speaking, etc. is NOT evidence that he's senile - it's proof that he's Joe Biden! In other words, he's ALWAYS been that way.

    Trump's problem after four long years, is that he too is the same guy he's always been. Except now his demerits are obvious, not just to his opponents, but to millions of his own supporters. Admittedly, most of these millions will continue giving him their votes. But NOT as many as in 2016.

    One last thought for the moment: note that right now in America, the easiest way for ANY institution to win favor with the general public, is by publicly DISAGREEING with Donald Trump.

    NASCAR is the most prominent example - just as Trumpsky is yet again wrapping himself in the Confederate Flag, NASCAR - which one welcomed him to it's races with one arms - has banned his favor banner.

    If that ain't a sea change, then no such thing as salt water!

    There are no guarantees and no outcome yet, but these words comfort me somewhat.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,549
    Breaking News

    Kelloggs are sexist as well as racist. They have a massive cock on their Cornflake boxes!!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Labour have been in power in Wales for far too long and to be honest CarwynJones was quite likeable, but Mark Drakeford is a Corbynista and oversees terrible failures in the Wales NHS and education.

    Devolution is not working in North Wales
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,549

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Labour have been in power in Wales for far too long and to be honest CarwynJones was quite likeable, but Mark Drakeford is a Corbynista and oversees terrible failures in the Wales NHS and education.

    Devolution is not working in North Wales
    The Welsh NHS has improved under Drakeford compared to Jones.

    Maybe its you being biased
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    Except the Welsh didn't vote for him. They did vote for Mr Drakeford. Not Mr BigG's Tories.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478

    Breaking News

    Kelloggs are sexist as well as racist. They have a massive cock on their Cornflake boxes!!

    Never harmed Trump Tower.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    What's Welsh for 'You too can be part of our world beating effort to be top of the European Covid-19 league'?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    Are you sure, given the differential covid-19 mortality figures?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Labour have been in power in Wales for far too long and to be honest CarwynJones was quite likeable, but Mark Drakeford is a Corbynista and oversees terrible failures in the Wales NHS and education.

    Devolution is not working in North Wales
    The Welsh NHS has improved under Drakeford compared to Jones.

    Maybe its you being biased
    You do not know what you are talking about and if you knew the suffering our family were going through just now, and daily reports in our local media of the pain and suffering across North Wales NHS you would not make such assertions



  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.
    'Stay at home' is just too easy and she is risking an enormous backlash from the thousands of job loses she is facilitating, especially in the hotel and leisure industry

    Edinburgh is in a desperate position and needs tourism back and shops open now
    Edinburgh property market on the other hand is rebalancing beautifully. Air BnB vultures getting soaked.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Labour have been in power in Wales for far too long and to be honest CarwynJones was quite likeable, but Mark Drakeford is a Corbynista and oversees terrible failures in the Wales NHS and education.

    Devolution is not working in North Wales
    Were I on the electoral role in Wales I would vote for the Abolish the Welsh Assembly party.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    What's Welsh for 'You too can be part of our world beating effort to be top of the European Covid-19 league'?
    "Gallwch chi hefyd fod yn rhan o'n hymdrech guro fyd-eang i fod ar frig cynghrair Covid-19 Ewrop." According to Google.

    But there is a serious point. How can you have a minority party control a country while relying on a majority of seats in another country? You don't need to listen to the local MPs any more. You can even experiment on the locals, as we remember all too well from the Poll Tax in Scotland.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    Except the Welsh didn't vote for him. They did vote for Mr Drakeford. Not Mr BigG's Tories.
    Nobody voted for Drakeford in Wales, but he will face a vote next spring
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,549
    Breaking News

    If Mrs BJ were to kick me out of the house now she could go and hug our grandchildren this evening.

    I'm worried she's considering it.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,953

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Labour have been in power in Wales for far too long and to be honest CarwynJones was quite likeable, but Mark Drakeford is a Corbynista and oversees terrible failures in the Wales NHS and education.

    Devolution is not working in North Wales
    Are the electorate voting in the wrong kind of politicians?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    Are you sure, given the differential covid-19 mortality figures?
    Care homes have been a disaster
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    Alistair said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.
    'Stay at home' is just too easy and she is risking an enormous backlash from the thousands of job loses she is facilitating, especially in the hotel and leisure industry

    Edinburgh is in a desperate position and needs tourism back and shops open now
    Edinburgh property market on the other hand is rebalancing beautifully. Air BnB vultures getting soaked.
    Excellent news.

    When the SNP passed the laws to stop landlords evicting people so easily, the Festival organsiers performers whined that their interests weren't being taken seriously - how could the actors be expected to turn up without lots of flats in Broughton Street and the Meadows areas suddenly vacant of locals for their convenience?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Labour have been in power in Wales for far too long and to be honest CarwynJones was quite likeable, but Mark Drakeford is a Corbynista and oversees terrible failures in the Wales NHS and education.

    Devolution is not working in North Wales
    The Welsh NHS has improved under Drakeford compared to Jones.

    Maybe its you being biased
    You do not know what you are talking about and if you knew the suffering our family were going through just now, and daily reports in our local media of the pain and suffering across North Wales NHS you would not make such assertions



    I am sorry to hear that , but do wonder how different things would be were the Welsh Office still exercising direct control as was the case pre-1999.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308

    Breaking News

    If Mrs BJ were to kick me out of the house now she could go and hug our grandchildren this evening.

    I'm worried she's considering it.

    And we cannot in Wales. Can you see the anger
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    Are you sure, given the differential covid-19 mortality figures?
    Care homes have been a disaster
    More so than in England?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,883

    Breaking News

    If Mrs BJ were to kick me out of the house now she could go and hug our grandchildren this evening.

    I'm worried she's considering it.

    She can anyway. Nobody gives two f*cks about the rules anymore.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    I'll probably get into trouble for asking this, but I wonder what percentage of south Asian people in the UK would be happy for a member of their family to marry a black person? Or east Asian people and Indians?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,287

    Scott_xP said:
    Scottish split:

    SNP 49%
    SCon 22%
    SLab 16%
    Grn 7%
    SLD 7%
    BP1%

    Fantastic figure for the Greens.
    Either Scotland is a very left leaning country or many of those SNP voters are not really on the left at all.
    The clue is in the name: national party. We represent the nation, the broad spectrum of Scottish society. By definition, we have members and supporters from throughout the nation, in a way no party in England has ever achieved, nor tried to achieve.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.
    'Stay at home' is just too easy and she is risking an enormous backlash from the thousands of job loses she is facilitating, especially in the hotel and leisure industry

    Edinburgh is in a desperate position and needs tourism back and shops open now
    Edinburgh property market on the other hand is rebalancing beautifully. Air BnB vultures getting soaked.
    Excellent news.

    When the SNP passed the laws to stop landlords evicting people so easily, the Festival organsiers performers whined that their interests weren't being taken seriously - how could the actors be expected to turn up without lots of flats in Broughton Street and the Meadows areas suddenly vacant of locals for their convenience?
    Funny enough my dear wife was staying in a flat in the Meadows when we started going out in 1962
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Labour have been in power in Wales for far too long and to be honest CarwynJones was quite likeable, but Mark Drakeford is a Corbynista and oversees terrible failures in the Wales NHS and education.

    Devolution is not working in North Wales
    The Welsh NHS has improved under Drakeford compared to Jones.

    Maybe its you being biased
    You do not know what you are talking about and if you knew the suffering our family were going through just now, and daily reports in our local media of the pain and suffering across North Wales NHS you would not make such assertions



    I am sorry to hear that , but do wonder how different things would be were the Welsh Office still exercising direct control as was the case pre-1999.
    It could not be worse
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232
    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    What's Welsh for 'You too can be part of our world beating effort to be top of the European Covid-19 league'?
    "Gallwch chi hefyd fod yn rhan o'n hymdrech guro fyd-eang i fod ar frig cynghrair Covid-19 Ewrop." According to Google.

    But there is a serious point. How can you have a minority party control a country while relying on a majority of seats in another country? You don't need to listen to the local MPs any more. You can even experiment on the locals, as we remember all too well from the Poll Tax in Scotland.
    The Yoons have very short memories, or else they'd mind that it was precisely this inequity that led to devolution as Tony Blair enacted it.

    Still, thanks lads, you and Maggie Thatcher have ensured (so far) 13 years of SNP government.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    edited June 2020

    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    Are you sure, given the differential covid-19 mortality figures?
    Care homes have been a disaster
    They have been everywhere, with some variance. And yet if we look at totals, [edit] not just care homes, the Welsh mortality per head is 461/million, comparable to Scotland's 448 and markedly less than England's 666, [edit] and I'm assuming that the latter reporting is finally comparable in terms of totals, which it wasn't for some weeks.

    Your view that Scotland and Wales are too slow to unlock is one interpretation. But with R still so hign in England, it's at least as reasonable to take the view that England is being too fast. I actually hope not, out of sheer humanity - but we will see.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,834
    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    What's Welsh for 'You too can be part of our world beating effort to be top of the European Covid-19 league'?
    "Gallwch chi hefyd fod yn rhan o'n hymdrech guro fyd-eang i fod ar frig cynghrair Covid-19 Ewrop." According to Google.

    But there is a serious point. How can you have a minority party control a country while relying on a majority of seats in another country? You don't need to listen to the local MPs any more. You can even experiment on the locals, as we remember all too well from the Poll Tax in Scotland.
    It is the nature of Government to govern on behalf of all people, including those who didn't vote for you. Believe it or not, there are some people in Scotland that didn't vote for the SNP, yet the SNP claims to govern for them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.
    'Stay at home' is just too easy and she is risking an enormous backlash from the thousands of job loses she is facilitating, especially in the hotel and leisure industry

    Edinburgh is in a desperate position and needs tourism back and shops open now
    Edinburgh property market on the other hand is rebalancing beautifully. Air BnB vultures getting soaked.
    Excellent news.

    When the SNP passed the laws to stop landlords evicting people so easily, the Festival organsiers performers whined that their interests weren't being taken seriously - how could the actors be expected to turn up without lots of flats in Broughton Street and the Meadows areas suddenly vacant of locals for their convenience?
    Funny enough my dear wife was staying in a flat in the Meadows when we started going out in 1962
    I was going to pre-school just south of the Meadows at that time!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478
    Andy_JS said:

    I'll probably get into trouble for asking this, but I wonder what percentage of south Asian people in the UK would be happy for a member of their family to marry a black person? Or east Asian people and Indians?

    Don't see why you'd get into trouble. It is a perfectly legitimate question to pose.
    Caste is deeply embedded.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    Are you sure, given the differential covid-19 mortality figures?
    Care homes have been a disaster
    They have been everywhere, with some variance. And yet if we look at totals, [edit] not just care homes, the Welsh mortality per head is 461/million, comparable to Scotland's 448 and markedly less than England's 666, [edit] and I'm assuming that the latter reporting is finally comparable in terms of totals, which it wasn't for some weeks.

    Your view that Scotland and Wales are too slow to unlock is one interpretation. But with R still so hign in England, it's at least as reasonable to take the view that England is being too fast. I actually hope not, out of sheer humanity - but we will see.
    The R in England is much in line with the rest of the UK

    Sturgeon may be popular at present but the stark differences between Scotland and England may well rebound on her if England powers ahead and Scotland is damaged by unnecessary caution
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526

    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    What's Welsh for 'You too can be part of our world beating effort to be top of the European Covid-19 league'?
    "Gallwch chi hefyd fod yn rhan o'n hymdrech guro fyd-eang i fod ar frig cynghrair Covid-19 Ewrop." According to Google.

    But there is a serious point. How can you have a minority party control a country while relying on a majority of seats in another country? You don't need to listen to the local MPs any more. You can even experiment on the locals, as we remember all too well from the Poll Tax in Scotland.
    It is the nature of Government to govern on behalf of all people, including those who didn't vote for you. Believe it or not, there are some people in Scotland that didn't vote for the SNP, yet the SNP claims to govern for them.
    It's, of course, a minority government, so by definition more than one party has to agree.

    Have a look at the voting system at Holyrood, which is designed to turn majorities into minorities, and comparse it with that for London, and you'll see that any Scottish administration tends to have a much stronger claim to legitimacy, whether minority rule or formal coalition.

    Anyway I'm off now fpor tonight - see you lot sometime.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,834

    Scott_xP said:
    Scottish split:

    SNP 49%
    SCon 22%
    SLab 16%
    Grn 7%
    SLD 7%
    BP1%

    Fantastic figure for the Greens.
    Either Scotland is a very left leaning country or many of those SNP voters are not really on the left at all.
    The clue is in the name: national party. We represent the nation, the broad spectrum of Scottish society. By definition, we have members and supporters from throughout the nation, in a way no party in England has ever achieved, nor tried to achieve.
    Please don't be modest - you have supporters throughout the *world*. Exclude Sweden, the Bahamas, Florida, LA, and Bath, and you would decimate the movement.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,953
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'll probably get into trouble for asking this, but I wonder what percentage of south Asian people in the UK would be happy for a member of their family to marry a black person? Or east Asian people and Indians?

    Don't see why you'd get into trouble. It is a perfectly legitimate question to pose.
    Caste is deeply embedded.
    For 8 years I had a neighbour from Bombay / Mumbai * who much preferred dealing with Brits as he said Indians were obsessed with caste and whereabouts in India you came from. If you were the wrong caste or from the wrong place the insults flew thick and fast. As this often happened in an Indian language, it was rarely noticed by British folk.

    * delete as per personal choice
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Andy_JS said:

    I'll probably get into trouble for asking this, but I wonder what percentage of south Asian people in the UK would be happy for a member of their family to marry a black person? Or east Asian people and Indians?

    I heard a white South African say that they would be happy if their child married a black Brit, but not if they married a black South African.

    People are weird.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    I think Nicola Sturgeon is carrying Scotland with her plan, which certainly isn't the case with Boris Johnson. Mainly because she gives the impression of actually having a plan and sticking to it.
    'Stay at home' is just too easy and she is risking an enormous backlash from the thousands of job loses she is facilitating, especially in the hotel and leisure industry

    Edinburgh is in a desperate position and needs tourism back and shops open now
    Edinburgh property market on the other hand is rebalancing beautifully. Air BnB vultures getting soaked.
    Excellent news.

    When the SNP passed the laws to stop landlords evicting people so easily, the Festival organsiers performers whined that their interests weren't being taken seriously - how could the actors be expected to turn up without lots of flats in Broughton Street and the Meadows areas suddenly vacant of locals for their convenience?
    Funny enough my dear wife was staying in a flat in the Meadows when we started going out in 1962
    I was going to pre-school just south of the Meadows at that time!
    Small world
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    "A new 'statue' has appeared next to Colston's empty plinth

    It's made out of paper mache and is believed to be referencing the weekend's demonstration at the Cenotaph"

    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/new-statue-appeared-next-colstons-4228032
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    Are you sure, given the differential covid-19 mortality figures?
    Care homes have been a disaster
    They have been everywhere, with some variance. And yet if we look at totals, [edit] not just care homes, the Welsh mortality per head is 461/million, comparable to Scotland's 448 and markedly less than England's 666, [edit] and I'm assuming that the latter reporting is finally comparable in terms of totals, which it wasn't for some weeks.

    Your view that Scotland and Wales are too slow to unlock is one interpretation. But with R still so hign in England, it's at least as reasonable to take the view that England is being too fast. I actually hope not, out of sheer humanity - but we will see.
    The R in England is much in line with the rest of the UK

    Sturgeon may be popular at present but the stark differences between Scotland and England may well rebound on her if England powers ahead and Scotland is damaged by unnecessary caution
    On R, that's not what I've been reading lately: it's actually rather higher than in Scotland - and irrespective of that its magnotude is plainly worrying the medics and scientists that lockdown is easing in England. But those figures are estimates and do wobble up and down.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,834

    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    What's Welsh for 'You too can be part of our world beating effort to be top of the European Covid-19 league'?
    "Gallwch chi hefyd fod yn rhan o'n hymdrech guro fyd-eang i fod ar frig cynghrair Covid-19 Ewrop." According to Google.

    But there is a serious point. How can you have a minority party control a country while relying on a majority of seats in another country? You don't need to listen to the local MPs any more. You can even experiment on the locals, as we remember all too well from the Poll Tax in Scotland.
    The Yoons have very short memories, or else they'd mind that it was precisely this inequity that led to devolution as Tony Blair enacted it.

    Still, thanks lads, you and Maggie Thatcher have ensured (so far) 13 years of SNP government.
    Given that the SNP gave us Thatcher, your thanks seem misplaced.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526

    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    What's Welsh for 'You too can be part of our world beating effort to be top of the European Covid-19 league'?
    "Gallwch chi hefyd fod yn rhan o'n hymdrech guro fyd-eang i fod ar frig cynghrair Covid-19 Ewrop." According to Google.

    But there is a serious point. How can you have a minority party control a country while relying on a majority of seats in another country? You don't need to listen to the local MPs any more. You can even experiment on the locals, as we remember all too well from the Poll Tax in Scotland.
    The Yoons have very short memories, or else they'd mind that it was precisely this inequity that led to devolution as Tony Blair enacted it.

    Still, thanks lads, you and Maggie Thatcher have ensured (so far) 13 years of SNP government.
    Given that the SNP gave us Thatcher, your thanks seem misplaced.
    Not according to historians and Jim Callaghan himself!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,287

    Scott_xP said:
    Scottish split:

    SNP 49%
    SCon 22%
    SLab 16%
    Grn 7%
    SLD 7%
    BP1%

    Fantastic figure for the Greens.
    Either Scotland is a very left leaning country or many of those SNP voters are not really on the left at all.
    The clue is in the name: national party. We represent the nation, the broad spectrum of Scottish society. By definition, we have members and supporters from throughout the nation, in a way no party in England has ever achieved, nor tried to achieve.
    Please don't be modest - you have supporters throughout the *world*. Exclude Sweden, the Bahamas, Florida, LA, and Bath, and you would decimate the movement.
    Vous saurez qu’on dit en proverbe
    Que d’écossais, de rats, de poux,
    Ceux qui voyagent jusqu’au bout
    Du monde en rencontrent partout.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232

    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    What's Welsh for 'You too can be part of our world beating effort to be top of the European Covid-19 league'?
    "Gallwch chi hefyd fod yn rhan o'n hymdrech guro fyd-eang i fod ar frig cynghrair Covid-19 Ewrop." According to Google.

    But there is a serious point. How can you have a minority party control a country while relying on a majority of seats in another country? You don't need to listen to the local MPs any more. You can even experiment on the locals, as we remember all too well from the Poll Tax in Scotland.
    The Yoons have very short memories, or else they'd mind that it was precisely this inequity that led to devolution as Tony Blair enacted it.

    Still, thanks lads, you and Maggie Thatcher have ensured (so far) 13 years of SNP government.
    Given that the SNP gave us Thatcher, your thanks seem misplaced.
    I'm sure Magrit lives on in your heart, but nowhere else. The SNP otoh..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,479

    Scott_xP said:
    Scottish split:

    SNP 49%
    SCon 22%
    SLab 16%
    Grn 7%
    SLD 7%
    BP1%

    Fantastic figure for the Greens.
    Either Scotland is a very left leaning country or many of those SNP voters are not really on the left at all.
    The clue is in the name: national party. We represent the nation, the broad spectrum of Scottish society. By definition, we have members and supporters from throughout the nation, in a way no party in England has ever achieved, nor tried to achieve.
    Please don't be modest - you have supporters throughout the *world*. Exclude Sweden, the Bahamas, Florida, LA, and Bath, and you would decimate the movement.
    Don't forget Surrey, the main UK home of Sir Andy Murray and New York city, home of Alan Cumming, both Yes backers in 2014
  • TresTres Posts: 595
    Is the statute madness over? Amazing what calming influence opening Primark has.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    Andy_JS said:

    BLM probably regards mixed-race marriages as problematic.

    Would seem rather self-defeating for an anti-racist movement to be er ... racist?
    I don't think it at all impossible (how often in recent years has there beenseen some thoroughly nasty comments, not recognised or dealt with because those saying them utterly believe in their own anti-racism) though Andy seems to have pulled the allegation out of his arse on this occasion.

    The idea makes me recall when reading I know why the caged bird sings that Maya Angelou seemed quite honest about how being oppressed does not necessarily make people think better of other people who are oppressed, referencing the reaction plenty had when japanese americans were being forced out of their homes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Netflix pull blackface episode of It's Always Sunny. The point of that series is to hate the characters because they are all so awful, that episode is literally a piss take of the kind of people who think blackface is a reasonable thing to do.

    Who is the culture minister? I think it's time for a strongly worded letter to streaming companies saying that censorship is not on and all TV shows must be restored immediately.

    The idea that the government gets to mandate editorial decisions (probably temporary) of media companies is even less... on.
    Indeed. What Netflix broadcasts is up to Netflix so long as it's not breaking the law.

    Why certain people who are supposed to be right wing and believe in a free market suddenly want big government getting involved telling private companies what to do is beyond me.
    The reaction they actually want is companies to not react they way they have, I suspect, not to be so terrified of tasteless or risque content, which many may sympathise with, but in having that reaction they trip over themselves into seemingly demanding certain actions instead.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    I don't think government should be intentionally avoiding certain outlets, but I would be interested in the stats on how often they generally appeared, as for all I know long stretches without is not unusual.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    Carnyx said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Presumably they would reflect directly the same level of quality as the Johnson government.
    It would be a 100% improvement
    What's Welsh for 'You too can be part of our world beating effort to be top of the European Covid-19 league'?
    "Gallwch chi hefyd fod yn rhan o'n hymdrech guro fyd-eang i fod ar frig cynghrair Covid-19 Ewrop." According to Google.

    But there is a serious point. How can you have a minority party control a country while relying on a majority of seats in another country? You don't need to listen to the local MPs any more. You can even experiment on the locals, as we remember all too well from the Poll Tax in Scotland.
    The Yoons have very short memories, or else they'd mind that it was precisely this inequity that led to devolution as Tony Blair enacted it.

    Still, thanks lads, you and Maggie Thatcher have ensured (so far) 13 years of SNP government.
    Given that the SNP gave us Thatcher, your thanks seem misplaced.
    I am frequently amazed at the strength of feeling some have toward the SNP over the whole 'gave us Thatcher' business.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BLM probably regards mixed-race marriages as problematic.

    Would seem rather self-defeating for an anti-racist movement to be er ... racist?
    I don't think it at all impossible (how often in recent years has there beenseen some thoroughly nasty comments, not recognised or dealt with because those saying them utterly believe in their own anti-racism) though Andy seems to have pulled the allegation out of his arse on this occasion.

    The idea makes me recall when reading I know why the caged bird sings that Maya Angelou seemed quite honest about how being oppressed does not necessarily make people think better of other people who are oppressed, referencing the reaction plenty had when japanese americans were being forced out of their homes.
    Oppression debases both oppressed and oppressor, though more physically dangerous for the former.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Confirming my opinion that Sturgeon and Drakesford are terrified of coming out of their stay at home mantra and creating untold future health and economic damage to Scotland and Wales
    Off topic.

    By this time next year we will see whether Johnson's throw of the dice or Welsh and Sottish caution was the way to go. I don't know which way it will go. If Wales and Scotland mitigate a second wave and England doesn't you may be eating your words.
    I have no doubt the pressure building up on Sturgeon and Drakesford, even from within their own countries, will result in them following England and Northern Ireland very quickly

    They just cannot get away with destroying their lucrative holiday and leisure industries while those in England and Northern Ireland take their business and flourish

    It is just idiotic
    I shall be very annoyed indeed with Drakeford if he keeps a lockdown so hard that I cannot visit Wales this summer for the first time in 24 years.
    It is in place until september at present

    He is heading for open rebellion, especially in the north, as have far more in common with Liverpool, Manchester and Chester than Cardiff.

    He is and always has been a disaster for Wales
    His poll ratings though have improved.
    He is a disaster and you are not affected by him and his failures, not least the disaster of our local hospital that has had serious issues for members of our family and many others
    I have never supported Devolution and would happily see the Assembly disappear. To what extent are the problems due to him personally or his Administration? How different would it be , were the Welsh Office still in direct control?
    Labour have been in power in Wales for far too long and to be honest CarwynJones was quite likeable, but Mark Drakeford is a Corbynista and oversees terrible failures in the Wales NHS and education.

    Devolution is not working in North Wales
    Are the electorate voting in the wrong kind of politicians?
    It's traditional.

    It does strike me, and I think most of the public already know it, that even the most atypical of politicians become part of the system eventually, despite their own best efforts perhaps. Even revolutionaries adopt the trappings and stylings at the end. I was reading an old university essay collection on the civil wars, and how the various parliaments of the 1650s, even the brief second chamber of 1657, pretty much immediately acted like any other parliaments ever had, regardless of who the members were or what direction they had. Such endurance.
This discussion has been closed.