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Didn't a plurality of Leavers also want Cummings sacked?eadric said:
ie Remainers, every one of 'emTheScreamingEagles said:Opinium conducted its survey on Thursday and Friday after Johnson said he believed it was time for the country to “move on” from the the controversy: 41% agreed that the country should now “move on”, but a large minority (37%) said it should not – including almost a fifth (18%) of 2019 Conservative voters.
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Voters also rejected AV in favour of keeping FPTP in 2011, so pushing PR without a referendum probably the only way to get it throughhumbugger said:
There won't be a Labour majority either. Think you might be getting a teeny weeny ahead of yourself here. I realise opinion polls 4 years before an election are all very exciting but there's a long way to go yet.CorrectHorseBattery said:
If he implements PR - which he should do - there will likely never be a Tory majority ever againHYUFD said:
He may become PM with LD and SNP support, he will almost certainly not win a majorityeadric said:
Likewise. Amongst all the chaos, let us remember that by 2024 the Tories will have been in power for fourteen years. And they are presiding over a shitshow pandemicCorrectHorseBattery said:Well, I am predicting now PM Keir Starmer in 2024.
Starmer is boring but electable. He will almost certainly win in 20240 -
That's right, under a completly different voting system and with constituency and regional lists.Theuniondivvie said:
What you mean is if a Scotch subsample of a Westminster poll was repeated in Holyrood elections in a year's time. That's right isn't it?HYUFD said:
Ruth Davidson never got the Tories to 30% and the figures would actually see the Tories up to 7 MPs in Scotland and regaining Gordon from the SNP.StuartDickson said:
Huh?HYUFD said:
Tories up to 30% in Scotland, which would be their highest voteshare there since 1979. SNP back under 50%StuartDickson said:Very good SCon and SLab figures in that Opinium, but I cannot recall a poll which has ever returned zero Scottish Liberal Democrat voters.
Looks like anything Ruth can do Jackson can do even better
That Opinium gives seat distribution of:
SNP 52 seats (+4)
SCon 6 seats (nc)
SLab 1 seat (nc)
SLD 0 seats (-4)
... which is about half what Ruth Davidson managed.
If repeated next year it would see a Unionist majority at Holyrood0 -
Worse, surely, as:TheScreamingEagles said:
It was nearly as bad as the badger watching excuse Ron Davies came out when he was caught at a well known dogging site.ydoethur said:
A friend of mine commented acidly that if he’d been given five minutes he could have come up with a far more convincing lie than that.rottenborough said:
Seems like the British public have not lost their common sense.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1266812011633139713
It's all a bubble story, where are the PB Tories?
He has weeks to come up with something and an "eye test" was the best he could do.
And this is the genius who will lead Britain into the mid-2020s?
Next.
1) Davies hadn’t put anyone other than himself at risk;
2) He had broken no laws or government guidance;
3) It was actually quite a funny and inventive excuse.0 -
No fair. Karie was going to take up the title "Lady Falkender"CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1266826484800462848
Superb decision.
Starmer is politicking like a pro0 -
No most certainly not.Ave_it said:
Haven't you gone LD Big G?Big_G_NorthWales said:My take on tonights polls
Inevitable
Cummings should have resigned but could not care less
Boris cannot do without him to conclude brexit
Boris has thrown away his USP and trust and my support
But neither seem to care so I assume neither think they will be around much, if at all after spring 2021
Calling the next GE in 2024 may act as some respite for labour supporters from the Corbyn years but in reality it is impossible to call
And finally, the left and those of a remain persuasion have failed to rid Cummings from their obsession and he stays there as a lightning rod for their anger and no doubt he just loves it
Weird thing politics
Retain my consevative membership card in my wallet and have no intention of returning it
But I do want a new leader post Brexit0 -
I think he means that the 30th of June is a supposed deadline for requesting an extension to talks about a possible trade deal.noneoftheabove said:
I thought Brexit happened ages ago?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
The date is an artificial one and a deal could be done by the end of the year or if a deal looks likely and a little more time is needed then it could easily be arranged.
The EU will agree to a deal, they don't have much choice, they have just had to borrow €750Billion and they simply can't afford to walk away from a country that they have a trade surplus with. There might be a lot of brinkmanship to come though.0 -
I think this is what's killing Boris's admirers. It's not so much the scandal of Cummings, but the fact that this supposed duo of political geniuses have gotten themselves into this unfathomable political mess to start with. Brexit is looking increasingly like a right-place-right-time thing. Nothing else they've done or about to do is in any way remotely inspiring.Scott_xP said:0 -
If we are leaving with no deal then leave noweadric said:
We are in transition and are subject to EU law. We have left de jure but not de factoRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
If there is an extended transition period - 2 more years? - all kinds of shit may happen. For a start we will be on the hook for squillions of EU corona bailout but Remainers won't worry about that. They just want us inside, for longer, and as long as we are inside there is a chance they can make the situation permanent, or we get such a soft Brexit it is like Brexit never happened.
It's madness to ignore the fact that this is driving much of the elite attack on Cummiings (I wholly accept that there are millions of ordinary voters who do not give a F about Brexit and who are mad about this)
If we think a deal is likely to be done an extension is fine0 -
How would the Tories have won a majority on PR with far less than 50% of the vote?TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, the Tories would have won an even larger majority under some non FPTP voting systems at GE2015 for example.CorrectHorseBattery said:
If he implements PR - which he should do - there will likely never be a Tory majority ever againHYUFD said:
He may become PM with LD and SNP support, he will almost certainly not win a majorityeadric said:
Likewise. Amongst all the chaos, let us remember that by 2024 the Tories will have been in power for fourteen years. And they are presiding over a shitshow pandemicCorrectHorseBattery said:Well, I am predicting now PM Keir Starmer in 2024.
Starmer is boring but electable. He will almost certainly win in 2024
https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/01/24/electoral-reform-might-not-be-the-panacea-the-left-think-it-is/0 -
Brexiteers are seeing the folly of their mistakes.eadric said:
We are in transition and are subject to EU law. We have left de jure but not de factoRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
If there is an extended transition period - 2 more years? - all kinds of shit may happen. For a start we will be on the hook for squillions of EU corona bailout but Remainers won't worry about that. They just want us inside, for longer, and as long as we are inside there is a chance they can make the situation permanent, or we get such a soft Brexit it is like Brexit never happened.
It's madness to ignore the fact that this is driving much of the elite attack on Cummiings (I wholly accept that there are millions of ordinary voters who do not give a F about Brexit and who are mad about this)
You Leavers will end up like the DUP, eventually.
https://twitter.com/jillongovt/status/12666806241081876482 -
Poll źźzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz1
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The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings0 -
Look at the article, it explains how.CorrectHorseBattery said:
How would the Tories have won a majority on PR with far less than 50% of the vote?TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, the Tories would have won an even larger majority under some non FPTP voting systems at GE2015 for example.CorrectHorseBattery said:
If he implements PR - which he should do - there will likely never be a Tory majority ever againHYUFD said:
He may become PM with LD and SNP support, he will almost certainly not win a majorityeadric said:
Likewise. Amongst all the chaos, let us remember that by 2024 the Tories will have been in power for fourteen years. And they are presiding over a shitshow pandemicCorrectHorseBattery said:Well, I am predicting now PM Keir Starmer in 2024.
Starmer is boring but electable. He will almost certainly win in 2024
https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/01/24/electoral-reform-might-not-be-the-panacea-the-left-think-it-is/0 -
I was only winding you up. I am still CON too but have never been a member.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No most certainly not.Ave_it said:
Haven't you gone LD Big G?Big_G_NorthWales said:My take on tonights polls
Inevitable
Cummings should have resigned but could not care less
Boris cannot do without him to conclude brexit
Boris has thrown away his USP and trust and my support
But neither seem to care so I assume neither think they will be around much, if at all after spring 2021
Calling the next GE in 2024 may act as some respite for labour supporters from the Corbyn years but in reality it is impossible to call
And finally, the left and those of a remain persuasion have failed to rid Cummings from their obsession and he stays there as a lightning rod for their anger and no doubt he just loves it
Weird thing politics
Retain my consevative membership card in my wallet and have no intention of returning it
But I do want a new leader post Brexit
Yes there is a good chance Boris will leave on his own accord before the neo GE2 -
No, Sturgeon would stay FM just with a Unionist majority blocking indyref2, as was the case with FM Salmond from 2007 to 2011.StuartDickson said:
So, the Conservatives are going to provide confidence and supply to FM Leonard? That’s available at the astonishingly good price of 20/1. How much cash have you invested HY?HYUFD said:
Ruth Davidson never got the Tories to 30% and the figures would actually see the Tories up to 7 MPs in Scotland and regaining Gordon from the SNP.StuartDickson said:
Huh?HYUFD said:
Tories up to 30% in Scotland, which would be their highest voteshare there since 1979. SNP back under 50%StuartDickson said:Very good SCon and SLab figures in that Opinium, but I cannot recall a poll which has ever returned zero Scottish Liberal Democrat voters.
Looks like anything Ruth can do Jackson can do even better
That Opinium gives seat distribution of:
SNP 52 seats (+4)
SCon 6 seats (nc)
SLab 1 seat (nc)
SLD 0 seats (-4)
... which is about half what Ruth Davidson managed.
If repeated next year it would see a Unionist majority at Holyrood
Of course though on this poll Carlaw would have more MPs and likely MSPs than Leonard too0 -
next GEAve_it said:
I was only winding you up. I am still CON too but have never been a member.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No most certainly not.Ave_it said:
Haven't you gone LD Big G?Big_G_NorthWales said:My take on tonights polls
Inevitable
Cummings should have resigned but could not care less
Boris cannot do without him to conclude brexit
Boris has thrown away his USP and trust and my support
But neither seem to care so I assume neither think they will be around much, if at all after spring 2021
Calling the next GE in 2024 may act as some respite for labour supporters from the Corbyn years but in reality it is impossible to call
And finally, the left and those of a remain persuasion have failed to rid Cummings from their obsession and he stays there as a lightning rod for their anger and no doubt he just loves it
Weird thing politics
Retain my consevative membership card in my wallet and have no intention of returning it
But I do want a new leader post Brexit
Yes there is a good chance Boris will leave on his own accord before the neo GE0 -
Last week I was on the receiving end of anti-gay verbal taunts while walking through a cruising area (or at least it would have been a few hours later). The group shouting abuse were I think Afghan asylum seekers.RochdalePioneers said:Gay dogging sites. In my defence I once totally innocuously wandered into what I later discovered was a gay cruise spot in Finabury Park. Perhaps RD was innocuous on repeated occasions...
Slightly ironic I thought.
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It doesn't say they would have won a majority, it says a coalition with UKIP.TheScreamingEagles said:
Look at the article, it explains how.CorrectHorseBattery said:
How would the Tories have won a majority on PR with far less than 50% of the vote?TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, the Tories would have won an even larger majority under some non FPTP voting systems at GE2015 for example.CorrectHorseBattery said:
If he implements PR - which he should do - there will likely never be a Tory majority ever againHYUFD said:
He may become PM with LD and SNP support, he will almost certainly not win a majorityeadric said:
Likewise. Amongst all the chaos, let us remember that by 2024 the Tories will have been in power for fourteen years. And they are presiding over a shitshow pandemicCorrectHorseBattery said:Well, I am predicting now PM Keir Starmer in 2024.
Starmer is boring but electable. He will almost certainly win in 2024
https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/01/24/electoral-reform-might-not-be-the-panacea-the-left-think-it-is/
AV isn't PR.0 -
I think there were a few good Brexits available to us back in 2016 despite voting remain. Those days are long gone, we are led by Orville and Harris, who seem to think the world will bend to our desires, it wont.TheScreamingEagles said:
Brexiteers are seeing the folly of their mistakes.eadric said:
We are in transition and are subject to EU law. We have left de jure but not de factoRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
If there is an extended transition period - 2 more years? - all kinds of shit may happen. For a start we will be on the hook for squillions of EU corona bailout but Remainers won't worry about that. They just want us inside, for longer, and as long as we are inside there is a chance they can make the situation permanent, or we get such a soft Brexit it is like Brexit never happened.
It's madness to ignore the fact that this is driving much of the elite attack on Cummiings (I wholly accept that there are millions of ordinary voters who do not give a F about Brexit and who are mad about this)
You Leavers will end up like the DUP, eventually.
https://twitter.com/jillongovt/status/12666806241081876480 -
Two thoughts - about 1.5 million fewer people are working at home than was the case in the middle of last month. Does that mean they have returned to work or they have been furloughed?Black_Rook said:
The notion that only 15% of the population claims to have been outside every day in the preceding week is almost as extraordinary as that schooling question - especially given how many people still need to go out to work. You have to wonder what percentage of the entire population (70%? 80%?) would be willing to contemplate spending the rest of their lives cowering in their homes if they weren't compelled to go out to earn a living or buy groceries.
If these numbers are anywhere close to representative of the true opinion of the public then most people have gone completely round the twist.
I think your notion regarding the 70-80% is absurd - even if I work at home, I still go out, not every day admittedly but most days. I'm also annoyed by your notion people are "cowering" at home - the elderly and those at high risk have been told to stay sheltered and that's fine.
We get home deliveries which is capitalism adapting to the new reality. That's why capitalism is the success it is - it is brutal, exploitative but it adapts so quickly and for those who can adapt there is money to be made.
I'd love to go racing again but I don't miss the grind of a 3-hour daily commute - I really honestly don't and I don't see why I should be compelled back to it to satisfy someone's desire for a "return to normality".0 -
The funny thing is I'm furious about Cummings as he's undermines the PMs authority, not as a play to undermine that authority. We ALL need the PM to carry authority when asking the country to make continued sacrifices.noneoftheabove said:
I thought Brexit happened ages ago?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
When the PM gave up that authority - we lost previously effective policy options to respond to the virus. We are all worse off now.
And that is where my interest begins and ends in Cummings.
If anyone can explain why the public health benefit of his genius outweighs that harm - I am willing to change my mind.0 -
I would respectfully disagree. Barnier admitted going past the 1st July, without an extension, is in the WDA which is an international treaty and ends any period beyond the 31st DecemberDeClare said:
I think he means that the 30th of June is a supposed deadline for requesting an extension to talks about a possible trade deal.noneoftheabove said:
I thought Brexit happened ages ago?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
The date is an artificial one and a deal could be done by the end of the year or if a deal looks likely and a little more time is needed then it could easily be arranged.
The EU will agree to a deal, they don't have much choice, they have just had to borrow €750Billion and they simply can't afford to walk away from a country that they have a trade surplus with. There might be a lot of brinkmanship to come though.0 -
Would the lds not also lose their social democrats also and become an out and out liberal party? So although amenable to coalitions probably not balance of power except where one other party is close power.HYUFD said:
There would never be a Labour majority again either.CorrectHorseBattery said:
If he implements PR - which he should do - there will likely never be a Tory majority ever againHYUFD said:
He may become PM with LD and SNP support, he will almost certainly not win a majorityeadric said:
Likewise. Amongst all the chaos, let us remember that by 2024 the Tories will have been in power for fourteen years. And they are presiding over a shitshow pandemicCorrectHorseBattery said:Well, I am predicting now PM Keir Starmer in 2024.
Starmer is boring but electable. He will almost certainly win in 2024
The Tories would likely split into its Cameroon and pro hard Brexit wings and Labour would split into its Corbynite and Social Democrat and Blairite wings.
The LDs would hold the balance of power in most general elections1 -
So if Cummings goes Boris will immediately seek an extension? Why would he do that and why is he not doing it while Cummings is in place?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings0 -
Lots of talk about how great a speech this was, not so much about his choice of t-shirt...
https://news.sky.com/story/george-floyd-death-rapper-killer-mike-tired-of-seeing-black-men-die-as-he-tearfully-pleads-for-calm-119976580 -
Cummings' parents have a country estate. His wife is the daughter of a baronet who lives in a castle. His uncle is a high court judge. He went to private school and then Oxford. His wife is a leading journalist. They live in Islington. He works for the prime minister. He ran a political campaign funded by billionaires. He is the elite.eadric said:
We are in transition and are subject to EU law. We have left de jure but not de factoRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
If there is an extended transition period - 2 more years? - all kinds of shit may happen. For a start we will be on the hook for squillions of EU corona bailout but Remainers won't worry about that. They just want us inside, for longer, and as long as we are inside there is a chance they can make the situation permanent, or we get such a soft Brexit it is like Brexit never happened.
It's madness to ignore the fact that this is driving much of the elite attack on Cummiings (I wholly accept that there are millions of ordinary voters who do not give a F about Brexit and who are mad about this)3 -
It is sadly because Johnson and Cummings crave power above all, therefore appointed a fourth rate cabinet on the basis Cummings could control and manage them. If he left you are just left with a fourth rate cabinet (bar Sunak who only got promoted by accident when Javid refused to be managed by Cummings) - effectively the end of the Johnson era before it has even started.PastoralSign said:
The funny thing is I'm furious about Cummings as he's undermines the PMs authority, not as a play to undermine that authority. We ALL need the PM to carry authority when asking the country to make continued sacrifices.noneoftheabove said:
I thought Brexit happened ages ago?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
When the PM gave up that authority - we lost previously effective policy options to respond to the virus. We are all worse off now.
And that is where my interest begins and ends in Cummings.
If anyone can explain why the public health benefit of his genius outweighs that harm - I am willing to change my mind.2 -
@HYUFD Stopping majorities for both parties would be a good thing for us all.3
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Well that might be so under present arrangements but present arrangements can always be changed.eadric said:
As soon as the UK extends into 2021 I believe we become liable to contribute to the EU budget 2021 onwards. This EU budget is about to balloon, enormously, as the EU tries to save the Italian and Spanish economies. The UK would have to fork out shedloads of cash, at the worst time, and with no say!DeClare said:
I think he means that the 30th of June is a supposed deadline for requesting an extension to talks about a possible trade deal.noneoftheabove said:
I thought Brexit happened ages ago?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
The date is an artificial one and a deal could be done by the end of the year or if a deal looks likely and a little more time is needed then it could easily be arranged.
The EU will agree to a deal, they don't have much choice, they have just had to borrow €750Billion and they simply can't afford to walk away from a country that they have a trade surplus with. There might be a lot of brinkmanship to come though.
Madness.
Corona means we have to Hard Brexit. Cummings is part of the war over that.0 -
Of course not but Cummings is pulling the strings right up to the 1st July, just 5 weeks awayStark_Dawning said:
So if Cummings goes Boris will immediately seek an extension? Why would he do that and why is he not doing it while Cummings is in place?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings0 -
Keep up. Elite now means people who live in cities and have had some form of post school education. Apparently if you live in the city, but own a few other houses, castles, villas elsewhere then you dont qualify.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Cummings' parents have a country estate. His wife is the daughter of a baronet who lives in a castle. His uncle is a high court judge. He went to private school and then Oxford. His wife is a leading journalist. They live in Islington. He works for the prime minister. He ran a political campaign funded by billionaires. He is the elite.eadric said:
We are in transition and are subject to EU law. We have left de jure but not de factoRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
If there is an extended transition period - 2 more years? - all kinds of shit may happen. For a start we will be on the hook for squillions of EU corona bailout but Remainers won't worry about that. They just want us inside, for longer, and as long as we are inside there is a chance they can make the situation permanent, or we get such a soft Brexit it is like Brexit never happened.
It's madness to ignore the fact that this is driving much of the elite attack on Cummiings (I wholly accept that there are millions of ordinary voters who do not give a F about Brexit and who are mad about this)1 -
In addition to all the Cummings stuff, Boris post covid is operating at Corbyn level. It clear for everybody to see, totally incapable of answering simple questions on covid issues.Stark_Dawning said:
I think this is what's killing Boris's admirers. It's not so much the scandal of Cummings, but the fact that this supposed duo of political geniuses have gotten themselves into this unfathomable political mess to start with. Brexit is looking increasingly like a right-place-right-time thing. Nothing else they've done or about to do is in any way remotely inspiring.Scott_xP said:2 -
An extension requires a majority in parliament. It isnt going to happen unless the government wants it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings
And they want WTO. Not that the WTO is functional anymore.0 -
I read the Brexit comments above and chortle. The ballot said should be leave the EU? People voted to leave and we did leave. I don't recall any supplementary questions about the EEA or FTAs or this and that scenario.
Leave. We left.1 -
I am not sure Nicola is likely to fight Holyrood 2021HYUFD said:
No, Sturgeon would stay FM just with a Unionist majority blocking indyref2, as was the case with FM Salmond from 2007 to 2011.StuartDickson said:
So, the Conservatives are going to provide confidence and supply to FM Leonard? That’s available at the astonishingly good price of 20/1. How much cash have you invested HY?HYUFD said:
Ruth Davidson never got the Tories to 30% and the figures would actually see the Tories up to 7 MPs in Scotland and regaining Gordon from the SNP.StuartDickson said:
Huh?HYUFD said:
Tories up to 30% in Scotland, which would be their highest voteshare there since 1979. SNP back under 50%StuartDickson said:Very good SCon and SLab figures in that Opinium, but I cannot recall a poll which has ever returned zero Scottish Liberal Democrat voters.
Looks like anything Ruth can do Jackson can do even better
That Opinium gives seat distribution of:
SNP 52 seats (+4)
SCon 6 seats (nc)
SLab 1 seat (nc)
SLD 0 seats (-4)
... which is about half what Ruth Davidson managed.
If repeated next year it would see a Unionist majority at Holyrood
Of course though on this poll Carlaw would have more MPs and likely MSPs than Leonard too
Lots of in fighting coming up in the SNP1 -
Nobody would think America was still in the middle of a pandemic. Places like Minneapolis haven't even reached peak deaths yet.0
-
I doubt you will see a pure PR proposed - more likely a fudge as per the devolved Parliaments.CorrectHorseBattery said:It doesn't say they would have won a majority, it says a coalition with UKIP.
AV isn't PR.
0 -
Best Brexit outcome remains EEA+1
-
To be honest, I find Cummings reassuringly normal with the same neuroses as everyone else. His actions may not have been wise but they are understandable.Stark_Dawning said:I think this is what's killing Boris's admirers. It's not so much the scandal of Cummings, but the fact that this supposed duo of political geniuses have gotten themselves into this unfathomable political mess to start with. Brexit is looking increasingly like a right-place-right-time thing. Nothing else they've done or about to do is in any way remotely inspiring.
"Home" should be (and is for many though not all) a place of safety, security and comfort where you can control events. The irony is that in claiming his views on herd immunity were misrepresented that in turn compromised his personal and domestic security.
He may or may not be re-writing his history (that's another issue) but I understand that if you no longer feel safe at home the desire to escape (especially if an attractive alternative is at hand) must have been overwhelming.
He lacks the self-awareness to realise he may have been the architect of his own insecurity. It seems absurd the master of campaigning via social media might not have realised said media could be used against him.0 -
-
Rubbish! I vote Leave in 2016, Brexit in May 2019 and Tory in December 2019 and I think Cummings should have resigned. There. I said it.eadric said:
DurhamGate is ALL about that.0 -
-
That’s not the case . The UK has no legal obligations to any EU recovery fund. You seem to be missing the fact that the UK has left the EU .eadric said:
As soon as the UK extends into 2021 I believe we become liable to contribute to the EU budget 2021 onwards. This EU budget is about to balloon, enormously, as the EU tries to save the Italian and Spanish economies. The UK would have to fork out shedloads of cash, at the worst time, and with no say!DeClare said:
I think he means that the 30th of June is a supposed deadline for requesting an extension to talks about a possible trade deal.noneoftheabove said:
I thought Brexit happened ages ago?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
The date is an artificial one and a deal could be done by the end of the year or if a deal looks likely and a little more time is needed then it could easily be arranged.
The EU will agree to a deal, they don't have much choice, they have just had to borrow €750Billion and they simply can't afford to walk away from a country that they have a trade surplus with. There might be a lot of brinkmanship to come though.
Madness.
Corona means we have to Hard Brexit. Cummings is part of the war over that.
0 -
Who suggested Keir find someone to sack for breaking lockdown?2
-
So, you are going to use your “Unionist majority” to install a pro-Scotland FM. What is the point in voting Unionist when you have no intention of governing?HYUFD said:
No, Sturgeon would stay FM just with a Unionist majority blocking indyref2, as was the case with FM Salmond from 2007 to 2011.StuartDickson said:
So, the Conservatives are going to provide confidence and supply to FM Leonard? That’s available at the astonishingly good price of 20/1. How much cash have you invested HY?HYUFD said:
Ruth Davidson never got the Tories to 30% and the figures would actually see the Tories up to 7 MPs in Scotland and regaining Gordon from the SNP.StuartDickson said:
Huh?HYUFD said:
Tories up to 30% in Scotland, which would be their highest voteshare there since 1979. SNP back under 50%StuartDickson said:Very good SCon and SLab figures in that Opinium, but I cannot recall a poll which has ever returned zero Scottish Liberal Democrat voters.
Looks like anything Ruth can do Jackson can do even better
That Opinium gives seat distribution of:
SNP 52 seats (+4)
SCon 6 seats (nc)
SLab 1 seat (nc)
SLD 0 seats (-4)
... which is about half what Ruth Davidson managed.
If repeated next year it would see a Unionist majority at Holyrood
Of course though on this poll Carlaw would have more MPs and likely MSPs than Leonard too0 -
I fully expected other politcians to have been caught out, but another nookie-gate!!!Scott_xP said:0 -
I fear some people may be surprised to learn that his level was always closer to Corbyns than they imagined. His blustering act works fine if there are only a couple of topics to have views on and he is not responsible.FrancisUrquhart said:
In addition to all the Cummings stuff, Boris post covid is operating at Corbyn level. It clear for everybody to see, totally incapable of answering simple questions on covid issues.Stark_Dawning said:
I think this is what's killing Boris's admirers. It's not so much the scandal of Cummings, but the fact that this supposed duo of political geniuses have gotten themselves into this unfathomable political mess to start with. Brexit is looking increasingly like a right-place-right-time thing. Nothing else they've done or about to do is in any way remotely inspiring.Scott_xP said:
When he is now responsible for a complex pandemic on top of day to day govt and Brexit there is no way his act could stay at the same level of performance.0 -
-
PR for Westminster is always going to be the toughest sell. I do think this was one of Clegg's mistakes in 2010.Socky said:
I doubt you will see a pure PR proposed - more likely a fudge as per the devolved Parliaments.CorrectHorseBattery said:It doesn't say they would have won a majority, it says a coalition with UKIP.
AV isn't PR.
Cameron might well have agreed to PR for local contests - it already existed in Northern Ireland, the London Mayoral and GLA elections and for the European Parliamentary elections among others.
He could never agree to PR for Westminster and Clegg should have realised that and gone a more subtle route via PR for local elections.
I live in Newham - 100% Labour on 65% of the vote. Now, I'm not disputing a Labour majority but 40 Labour and 20 Opposition Councillors would at least allow a plurality of voices on the council.3 -
You do surprise me and honestly I am not sure why you continue this without reference to no dealRochdalePioneers said:I read the Brexit comments above and chortle. The ballot said should be leave the EU? People voted to leave and we did leave. I don't recall any supplementary questions about the EEA or FTAs or this and that scenario.
Leave. We left.
The difference between deal and no deal is massive0 -
Elite means thinking you get to decide who advises the PM, even though no one voted for you.noneoftheabove said:Keep up. Elite now means people who live in cities and have had some form of post school education.
0 -
Its turning into the Major government.FrancisUrquhart said:
I fully expected other politcians to have been caught out, but another nookie-gate!!!Scott_xP said:
Aimed for Churchill, ending up a cross between Major and Orville.0 -
That's the unknown. Do they *actually* want WTO, or do they want to shout WTO to get something else?Foxy said:
An extension requires a majority in parliament. It isn't going to happen unless the government wants it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings
And they want WTO. Not that the WTO is functional anymore.
For me, three dogs didn't bark last autumn. One was when BoJo signed up to a fairly rubbish WA. But more important was when the Benn Bill was in the House of Lords.
If BoJo really wanted WTO, all he had to do was get Lords to filibuster, he was all set to do that, and then he didn't.
And if push came to shove, the businesses of the UK simply weren't in a position to run on WTO terms. They still aren't, and clearly aren't going to be by December- if only because they have bigger fish to fry at the moment.
So it looks like a bluff. It's been called at least once already. What's going on?0 -
And I take it these underlings would also have had the power to accept the EU's offer completely without Boris's knowledge or approval. What a load of unadulterated crap.eadric said:
Jeremy Warner in the Telegraph, May 12:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Of course not but Cummings is pulling the strings right up to the 1st July, just 5 weeks awayStark_Dawning said:
So if Cummings goes Boris will immediately seek an extension? Why would he do that and why is he not doing it while Cummings is in place?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings
"A deal to extend the transition in light of the crisis had been all but agreed at official level. The EU was to have spared the UK’s blushes by proposing it, rather than the other way around. This would have allowed the UK government to present the concession as a favour to the EU, rather than a climbdown
"But then Dominic Cummings, the Prime Minister’s chief adviser, returned and the plan, concocted by underlings while he and Boris Johnson were laid out on their sick beds, was scuppered."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/12/covid-19-has-completely-sunk-chances-swift-eu-trade-deal/
DurhamGate is ALL about that.1 -
eadric said:
Jeremy Warner in the Telegraph, May 12:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Of course not but Cummings is pulling the strings right up to the 1st July, just 5 weeks awayStark_Dawning said:
So if Cummings goes Boris will immediately seek an extension? Why would he do that and why is he not doing it while Cummings is in place?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings
"A deal to extend the transition in light of the crisis had been all but agreed at official level. The EU was to have spared the UK’s blushes by proposing it, rather than the other way around. This would have allowed the UK government to present the concession as a favour to the EU, rather than a climbdown
"But then Dominic Cummings, the Prime Minister’s chief adviser, returned and the plan, concocted by underlings while he and Boris Johnson were laid out on their sick beds, was scuppered."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/12/covid-19-has-completely-sunk-chances-swift-eu-trade-deal/
DurhamGate is ALL about that.
Thanks eadric. Exactly my argument0 -
He was always poor on detail, but had an element of wit about him that enabled to get out of some situations. Post covid, he often doesn't even comphrend the questions being asked. I don't think it is an attempt to avoid them.noneoftheabove said:
I fear some people may be surprised to learn that his level was always closer to Corbyns than they imagined. His blustering act works fine if there are only a couple of topics to have views on and he is not responsible.FrancisUrquhart said:
In addition to all the Cummings stuff, Boris post covid is operating at Corbyn level. It clear for everybody to see, totally incapable of answering simple questions on covid issues.Stark_Dawning said:
I think this is what's killing Boris's admirers. It's not so much the scandal of Cummings, but the fact that this supposed duo of political geniuses have gotten themselves into this unfathomable political mess to start with. Brexit is looking increasingly like a right-place-right-time thing. Nothing else they've done or about to do is in any way remotely inspiring.Scott_xP said:
When he is now responsible for a complex pandemic on top of day to day govt and Brexit there is no way his act could stay at the same level of performance.0 -
And....its kicking off in Chicago.
Mr Coronavirus must think Christmas come early....1000s of people all huddled together screaming and shouting.0 -
Ive said that is ultimately up to the PM.Socky said:
Elite means thinking you get to decide who advises the PM, even though no one voted for you.noneoftheabove said:Keep up. Elite now means people who live in cities and have had some form of post school education.
He should have resigned.
If not he should have been sacked by the PM.
If not the cabinet should have told the PM to sack him.
It is clear none of the above will happen, so its time to move on and make the PM responsible.
Lets not redefine words. Elite means the most powerful and privileged in society, the likes of Johnson, Rees Mogg, Cameron, Osbourne, Cummings et al.
0 -
You realise it is a Labour politician caught out this time, not Tory?noneoftheabove said:
Its turning into the Major government.FrancisUrquhart said:
I fully expected other politcians to have been caught out, but another nookie-gate!!!Scott_xP said:
Aimed for Churchill, ending up a cross between Major and Orville.0 -
-
Cummings is unelected,Socky said:
Elite means thinking you get to decide who advises the PM, even though no one voted for you.noneoftheabove said:Keep up. Elite now means people who live in cities and have had some form of post school education.
0 -
You only have 5 weeks to wait and for no deal to be odds onStuartinromford said:
That's the unknown. Do they *actually* want WTO, or do they want to shout WTO to get something else?Foxy said:
An extension requires a majority in parliament. It isn't going to happen unless the government wants it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings
And they want WTO. Not that the WTO is functional anymore.
For me, three dogs didn't bark last autumn. One was when BoJo signed up to a fairly rubbish WA. But more important was when the Benn Bill was in the House of Lords.
If BoJo really wanted WTO, all he had to do was get Lords to filibuster, he was all set to do that, and then he didn't.
And if push came to shove, the businesses of the UK simply weren't in a position to run on WTO terms. They still aren't, and clearly aren't going to be by December- if only because they have bigger fish to fry at the moment.
So it looks like a bluff. It's been called at least once already. What's going on?0 -
So Labour has already handled it better than Cummings then?0
-
Yes, but they've done the decent thing and resigned (not as an MP, that would be ghastly).FrancisUrquhart said:
You realise it is a Labour politician caught out this time, not Tory?noneoftheabove said:
Its turning into the Major government.FrancisUrquhart said:
I fully expected other politcians to have been caught out, but another nookie-gate!!!Scott_xP said:
Aimed for Churchill, ending up a cross between Major and Orville.0 -
Take a chill pill . The UK will pay for access to the single market and CU but the UK has already payed for its contributions to the last budget which was part of its legal requirement as part of the WA .eadric said:
FFS, dumb ass. The EU is now proposing to fund the corona bailout via the EU budget. Are you just fucking thick?nico67 said:
That’s not the case . The UK has no legal obligations to any EU recovery fund. You seem to be missing the fact that the UK has left the EU .eadric said:
As soon as the UK extends into 2021 I believe we become liable to contribute to the EU budget 2021 onwards. This EU budget is about to balloon, enormously, as the EU tries to save the Italian and Spanish economies. The UK would have to fork out shedloads of cash, at the worst time, and with no say!DeClare said:
I think he means that the 30th of June is a supposed deadline for requesting an extension to talks about a possible trade deal.noneoftheabove said:
I thought Brexit happened ages ago?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
The date is an artificial one and a deal could be done by the end of the year or if a deal looks likely and a little more time is needed then it could easily be arranged.
The EU will agree to a deal, they don't have much choice, they have just had to borrow €750Billion and they simply can't afford to walk away from a country that they have a trade surplus with. There might be a lot of brinkmanship to come though.
Madness.
Corona means we have to Hard Brexit. Cummings is part of the war over that.
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-eu-members-budget-battle-aid-package-italy-france-spain-2866788
There is no legal requirement to be part of the EU recovery fund . Instead of freaking out try reading the WA and stop talking nonsense .2 -
Neither deal or no deal were on the ballot. Neither deal or no deal are Brexit. I wanted EFTA/EEA. Others wanted WTO. Both are fully respecting a referendum asking if we should leave the EU. No destination was asked of.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do surprise me and honestly I am not sure why you continue this without reference to no dealRochdalePioneers said:I read the Brexit comments above and chortle. The ballot said should be leave the EU? People voted to leave and we did leave. I don't recall any supplementary questions about the EEA or FTAs or this and that scenario.
Leave. We left.
The difference between deal and no deal is massive
I fully expect no deal and cannot see viable alternatives. Not that no deal can physically be implemented by the December deadline. Regardless, the notion that "they're trying to stop Brexit" is fatuous and stupid. Brexit was leaving the EU. We left. It's achieved. Where we go next? Not part of Brexit.2 -
He has a lot of wit, and can be genuinely funny, but it is generally pre prepared and scripted, which works if you only have to talk about one or two issues. Not if you need to be prepared to discuss twenty issues in detail.FrancisUrquhart said:
He was always poor on detail, but had an element of wit about him that enabled to get out of some situations. Post covid, he often doesn't even comphrend the questions being asked. I don't think it is an attempt to avoid them.noneoftheabove said:
I fear some people may be surprised to learn that his level was always closer to Corbyns than they imagined. His blustering act works fine if there are only a couple of topics to have views on and he is not responsible.FrancisUrquhart said:
In addition to all the Cummings stuff, Boris post covid is operating at Corbyn level. It clear for everybody to see, totally incapable of answering simple questions on covid issues.Stark_Dawning said:
I think this is what's killing Boris's admirers. It's not so much the scandal of Cummings, but the fact that this supposed duo of political geniuses have gotten themselves into this unfathomable political mess to start with. Brexit is looking increasingly like a right-place-right-time thing. Nothing else they've done or about to do is in any way remotely inspiring.Scott_xP said:
When he is now responsible for a complex pandemic on top of day to day govt and Brexit there is no way his act could stay at the same level of performance.0 -
Nobody FORCED Cummings to break HIS OWN lockdown rules...eadric said:
See below. I readily admitted that many less intelligent ordinary voters genuinely see this as a moral issue, and they do not realise they are being manipulated in a bigger political game.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Rubbish! I vote Leave in 2016, Brexit in May 2019 and Tory in December 2019 and I think Cummings should have resigned. There. I said it.eadric said:
DurhamGate is ALL about that.2 -
An extension for a year is possible but extension beyond that is not otherwise Leavers will start to switch back to the Brexit Party again from the ToriesStuartinromford said:
That's the unknown. Do they *actually* want WTO, or do they want to shout WTO to get something else?Foxy said:
An extension requires a majority in parliament. It isn't going to happen unless the government wants it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings
And they want WTO. Not that the WTO is functional anymore.
For me, three dogs didn't bark last autumn. One was when BoJo signed up to a fairly rubbish WA. But more important was when the Benn Bill was in the House of Lords.
If BoJo really wanted WTO, all he had to do was get Lords to filibuster, he was all set to do that, and then he didn't.
And if push came to shove, the businesses of the UK simply weren't in a position to run on WTO terms. They still aren't, and clearly aren't going to be by December- if only because they have bigger fish to fry at the moment.
So it looks like a bluff. It's been called at least once already. What's going on?0 -
0
-
It's the Orwell 1984 thing.noneoftheabove said:
Ive said that is ultimately up to the PM.Socky said:
Elite means thinking you get to decide who advises the PM, even though no one voted for you.noneoftheabove said:Keep up. Elite now means people who live in cities and have had some form of post school education.
He should have resigned.
If not he should have been sacked by the PM.
If not the cabinet should have told the PM to sack him.
It is clear none of the above will happen, so its time to move on and make the PM responsible.
Lets not redefine words. Elite means the most powerful and privileged in society, the likes of Johnson, Rees Mogg, Cameron, Osbourne, Cummings et al.
Revolutions happen when the Middle co-opt the Low to evict the High.
Johnson, Gove, the whole current cabinet really... and Cummings... they were the second division elite, who have ejected the first division elite of Cameron, Osbourne etc.
(Incidentally, before Monday, I didn't realise how posh Cummings sounds when he talks in paragraphs. Is that just me?)1 -
Noooooooooooooooooo.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
Tell Barnier to get a life. The EU are terrified of no desl.Scott_xP said:1 -
..deal0
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We do if we win most seats, if not then preserving the Union is the priorityStuartDickson said:
So, you are going to use your “Unionist majority” to install a pro-Scotland FM. What is the point in voting Unionist when you have no intention of governing?HYUFD said:
No, Sturgeon would stay FM just with a Unionist majority blocking indyref2, as was the case with FM Salmond from 2007 to 2011.StuartDickson said:
So, the Conservatives are going to provide confidence and supply to FM Leonard? That’s available at the astonishingly good price of 20/1. How much cash have you invested HY?HYUFD said:
Ruth Davidson never got the Tories to 30% and the figures would actually see the Tories up to 7 MPs in Scotland and regaining Gordon from the SNP.StuartDickson said:
Huh?HYUFD said:
Tories up to 30% in Scotland, which would be their highest voteshare there since 1979. SNP back under 50%StuartDickson said:Very good SCon and SLab figures in that Opinium, but I cannot recall a poll which has ever returned zero Scottish Liberal Democrat voters.
Looks like anything Ruth can do Jackson can do even better
That Opinium gives seat distribution of:
SNP 52 seats (+4)
SCon 6 seats (nc)
SLab 1 seat (nc)
SLD 0 seats (-4)
... which is about half what Ruth Davidson managed.
If repeated next year it would see a Unionist majority at Holyrood
Of course though on this poll Carlaw would have more MPs and likely MSPs than Leonard too0 -
Yes they do. The whole cabinet was chosen because they were willing to go No Deal. There has been no vision or real direction to the negotiations. They are just running down the clock.Stuartinromford said:
That's the unknown. Do they *actually* want WTO, or do they want to shout WTO to get something else?Foxy said:
An extension requires a majority in parliament. It isn't going to happen unless the government wants it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings
And they want WTO. Not that the WTO is functional anymore.
For me, three dogs didn't bark last autumn. One was when BoJo signed up to a fairly rubbish WA. But more important was when the Benn Bill was in the House of Lords.
If BoJo really wanted WTO, all he had to do was get Lords to filibuster, he was all set to do that, and then he didn't.
And if push came to shove, the businesses of the UK simply weren't in a position to run on WTO terms. They still aren't, and clearly aren't going to be by December- if only because they have bigger fish to fry at the moment.
So it looks like a bluff. It's been called at least once already. What's going on?0 -
-
I think like the word "fair", elite has come to mean different things to the left and right.noneoftheabove said:Lets not redefine words. Elite means the most powerful and privileged in society, the likes of Johnson, Rees Mogg, Cameron, Osbourne, Cummings et al.
Most right-wingers use the term to refer to those who expect to have political influence which they have not earned at the ballot box or by political appointment. I guess the phrase was "unelected elite" originally but got shortened.
So Boris is PM, but BBC journalists are part of the elite.0 -
You make two basic mistakesStuartinromford said:
That's the unknown. Do they *actually* want WTO, or do they want to shout WTO to get something else?Foxy said:
An extension requires a majority in parliament. It isn't going to happen unless the government wants it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings
And they want WTO. Not that the WTO is functional anymore.
For me, three dogs didn't bark last autumn. One was when BoJo signed up to a fairly rubbish WA. But more important was when the Benn Bill was in the House of Lords.
If BoJo really wanted WTO, all he had to do was get Lords to filibuster, he was all set to do that, and then he didn't.
And if push came to shove, the businesses of the UK simply weren't in a position to run on WTO terms. They still aren't, and clearly aren't going to be by December- if only because they have bigger fish to fry at the moment.
So it looks like a bluff. It's been called at least once already. What's going on?
1. Assuming the cabinet understand how trade works. Remember that the First Secretary of State didnt understand the importance of Dover - Calais. They don't know that "WTO" doesnt mean getting our own way, apparently GATT24 will save us despite the outgoing head of the WTO giggling slightly whenever it's put to him
2. Assuming the cabinet are capable of actually governing. There's no strategy. There no negotiation tactics. Just bluster, bravado and small cocks1 -
Rosie was an idiot but she did the right thing and resigned.0
-
Wonder how many excess covid cases / deaths there will be due to all these massive protests in US?
Wasn't there a big outbreak after those idiot no to lockdown protests?0 -
But Boris is, and Boris decides who he wants advising him, not the editor of the Guardian.Sunil_Prasannan said:"Elite means thinking you get to decide who advises the PM, even though no one voted for you."
Cummings is unelected,
1 -
Eh? Who is this 'we'? A colonial administration? You don't have a vote in Scotland AFAIK.HYUFD said:
We do if we win most seats, if not then preserving the Union is the priorityStuartDickson said:
So, you are going to use your “Unionist majority” to install a pro-Scotland FM. What is the point in voting Unionist when you have no intention of governing?HYUFD said:
No, Sturgeon would stay FM just with a Unionist majority blocking indyref2, as was the case with FM Salmond from 2007 to 2011.StuartDickson said:
So, the Conservatives are going to provide confidence and supply to FM Leonard? That’s available at the astonishingly good price of 20/1. How much cash have you invested HY?HYUFD said:
Ruth Davidson never got the Tories to 30% and the figures would actually see the Tories up to 7 MPs in Scotland and regaining Gordon from the SNP.StuartDickson said:
Huh?HYUFD said:
Tories up to 30% in Scotland, which would be their highest voteshare there since 1979. SNP back under 50%StuartDickson said:Very good SCon and SLab figures in that Opinium, but I cannot recall a poll which has ever returned zero Scottish Liberal Democrat voters.
Looks like anything Ruth can do Jackson can do even better
That Opinium gives seat distribution of:
SNP 52 seats (+4)
SCon 6 seats (nc)
SLab 1 seat (nc)
SLD 0 seats (-4)
... which is about half what Ruth Davidson managed.
If repeated next year it would see a Unionist majority at Holyrood
Of course though on this poll Carlaw would have more MPs and likely MSPs than Leonard too0 -
She looks OK...dr_spyn said: 0 -
There have been at least three of these for parts of the Borough in the past four weeks.FrancisUrquhart said:Life returning to normal....
https://twitter.com/MPSNewham/status/1266783814723997696?s=19
I've noted on here the section of the population for whom lockdown has meant nothing is or are young men and that transcends race, colour and /or creed. I've seen groups of both young East European and Tamil men out and about.
0 -
Cummings is unelected...Socky said:
I think like the word "fair", elite has come to mean different things to the left and right.noneoftheabove said:Lets not redefine words. Elite means the most powerful and privileged in society, the likes of Johnson, Rees Mogg, Cameron, Osbourne, Cummings et al.
Most right-wingers use the term to refer to those who expect to have political influence which they have not earned at the ballot box or by political appointment. I guess the phrase was "unelected elite" originally but got shortened.
So Boris is PM, but BBC journalists are part of the elite.1 -
Labour always come up with electoral reform when they think they have no chance of winning. Too many people fall for that trick, Labour get a majority and then they back track. They always do that. Labour have no long-term vision.CorrectHorseBattery said:
If he implements PR - which he should do - there will likely never be a Tory majority ever againHYUFD said:
He may become PM with LD and SNP support, he will almost certainly not win a majorityeadric said:
Likewise. Amongst all the chaos, let us remember that by 2024 the Tories will have been in power for fourteen years. And they are presiding over a shitshow pandemicCorrectHorseBattery said:Well, I am predicting now PM Keir Starmer in 2024.
Starmer is boring but electable. He will almost certainly win in 2024
That is why young HY is so wrong when he keeps on forecasting a Labour Government with Lib Dem support. We have learned that particular trick.
0 -
I was unaware that this Labour MP was the One special advisor who wrote the rules she then ignored. Breaking the rules is bad. Breaking the rules you impose on everyone but yourself is really bad...eadric said:
Surely she mustr esign as an MP and be driven from public life?dr_spyn said:
That, after all, is the price they seek to exact from Cummings. There isn't one rule for Labour MPs and another for the rest of us, is there?0 -
Yes ultimately he does and that is what has happened. But he has to expect to be judged for standing by his man against standards of common decency and historical precedent.Socky said:
But Boris is, and Boris decides who he wants advising him, not the editor of the Guardian.Sunil_Prasannan said:"Elite means thinking you get to decide who advises the PM, even though no one voted for you."
Cummings is unelected,0 -
The WHOLE of Newham? Bloody hell. Right next door to us in Redbridge.FrancisUrquhart said:Life returning to normal....
https://twitter.com/MPSNewham/status/1266783814723997696?s=190 -
Nah, they got what they wanted in the WA. They are fine with WTO.squareroot2 said:
Tell Barnier to get a life. The EU are terrified of no desl.Scott_xP said:0 -
Have you given up hiding in Wales?eadric said:
I was in Regent's Park today and there were, in places, groups of 30-50 people having impromptu parties.stodge said:
There have been at least three of these for parts of the Borough in the past four weeks.FrancisUrquhart said:Life returning to normal....
https://twitter.com/MPSNewham/status/1266783814723997696?s=19
I've noted on here the section of the population for whom lockdown has meant nothing is or are young men and that transcends race, colour and /or creed. I've seen groups of both young East European and Tamil men out and about.
They were mostly white and looked rather well heeled. They were all quite young.0 -
Labour were demanding Cummings was sacked from his jobeadric said:
Surely she mustr esign as an MP and be driven from public life?dr_spyn said:
That, after all, is the price they seek to exact from Cummings. There isn't one rule for Labour MPs and another for the rest of us, is there?
Rosie is still an mp so Starmer double standards then0 -
'rules have always been clear and apply to all'CorrectHorseBattery said:Rosie was an idiot but she did the right thing and resigned.
0 -
All true.RochdalePioneers said:
You make two basic mistakesStuartinromford said:
That's the unknown. Do they *actually* want WTO, or do they want to shout WTO to get something else?Foxy said:
An extension requires a majority in parliament. It isn't going to happen unless the government wants it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The agreement for a deal or no deal is far more important than just saying we have leftRochdalePioneers said:
We left the EU at the end of January. You can't stop something that happened in the past. I think this is your problem - your definition of "Brexit" isn't leaving the EU. What is it...?eadric said:
The Remainers have four weeks to stop Brexit. They will stop at nothing in that time.Peter_the_Punter said:
I must say he did offer quite a few hostages to fortune in The Rose Garden account so it wouldn't be surprising if some of them went bad for him.StuartDickson said:
Popcorn. Sorted.AlastairMeeks said:
One rather assumed he would have been careful not to tell any demonstrable untruths but we have already seen that it is not the case. His account of the article he said he had written on coronavirus unwound pretty swiftly.
Sounds like there's more to come. Popcorn indeed!
And of course come the 1st July no extension is possible under the WDA
Hence Cummings
And they want WTO. Not that the WTO is functional anymore.
For me, three dogs didn't bark last autumn. One was when BoJo signed up to a fairly rubbish WA. But more important was when the Benn Bill was in the House of Lords.
If BoJo really wanted WTO, all he had to do was get Lords to filibuster, he was all set to do that, and then he didn't.
And if push came to shove, the businesses of the UK simply weren't in a position to run on WTO terms. They still aren't, and clearly aren't going to be by December- if only because they have bigger fish to fry at the moment.
So it looks like a bluff. It's been called at least once already. What's going on?
1. Assuming the cabinet understand how trade works. Remember that the First Secretary of State didnt understand the importance of Dover - Calais. They don't know that "WTO" doesnt mean getting our own way, apparently GATT24 will save us despite the outgoing head of the WTO giggling slightly whenever it's put to him
2. Assuming the cabinet are capable of actually governing. There's no strategy. There no negotiation tactics. Just bluster, bravado and small cocks
But it was true last autumn as well.
And when it came to it, the government blinked.
I'm not holding onto this as a comfort blanket, but it feels significant.0 -
She was quoted in Kentonline last Monday exhorting people visiting the county to adhere to social distancing. She seems to have been meeting her married lover in breaking lockdown, not taking action to protect a 4 year old child. But, as she's Labour no doubt she's ok, no?RochdalePioneers said:
I was unaware that this Labour MP was the One special advisor who wrote the rules she then ignored. Breaking the rules is bad. Breaking the rules you impose on everyone but yourself is really bad...eadric said:
Surely she mustr esign as an MP and be driven from public life?dr_spyn said:
That, after all, is the price they seek to exact from Cummings. There isn't one rule for Labour MPs and another for the rest of us, is there?0 -
Saw the SpaceX on its second pass just now; really bright and clear, perfect conditions1
-
I thought there would be no second referendum as long as Johnson and the Conservatives held a majority because they would block any attempt to hold such a vote. In that sense, the party running Scotland is an irrelevance - if the SNP wins a majority, fine, you might not like that but it doesn't lead to Scotland leaving the union.HYUFD said:
We do if we win most seats, if not then preserving the Union is the priority
To the next GE - IF the price of the SNP's support is a second vote, would Starmer pay that for the keys to Downing Street? Would the LDs support that - like Labour, they are a pro-Union party but I don't know.
I presume the Conservative position would be to refuse a second vote and if one were granted to campaign vigorously for the Union to be preserved. IF, however, the Scots voted freely and fairly for independence, I presume the Conservatives would respect that decision.0 -
I think i am happy to continue to give the big smoke a wide berth for the foreseeable future.eadric said:
Returning fulltime to London shortly, have been here for work. I'm a key worker!FrancisUrquhart said:
Have you given up hiding in Wales?eadric said:
I was in Regent's Park today and there were, in places, groups of 30-50 people having impromptu parties.stodge said:
There have been at least three of these for parts of the Borough in the past four weeks.FrancisUrquhart said:Life returning to normal....
https://twitter.com/MPSNewham/status/1266783814723997696?s=19
I've noted on here the section of the population for whom lockdown has meant nothing is or are young men and that transcends race, colour and /or creed. I've seen groups of both young East European and Tamil men out and about.
They were mostly white and looked rather well heeled. They were all quite young.0
This discussion has been closed.