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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030

    Let's see if Boris's ratings go up or down.

    I thought that it was his worst PMQs so far against Starmer.

    TMay would have done far better

    Actually I thought he was better but only on the margins

    He does not look well

    I expect his ratings and HMG to continue to fall to be honest
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,685
    Clowns belong in the circus - NOT in No. 10 :lol:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,565

    Actually I thought he was better but only on the margins

    He does not look well

    I expect his ratings and HMG to continue to fall to be honest
    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1263070600299413505
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Two weeks in a row Sir Keir has apparently got Boris Johnson to say more than he intended. That looks like a win for Sir Keir in objective terms.

    Whether anyone will care if Boris Johnson's new target is missed, we'll see.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I think a score draw too.

    SKS missed an open goal
    So BJO and I think score draw, HYUFD and OGH think their own man clearly won.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited May 2020
    tlg86 said:

    I think Starmer is doing fine, but he's in a comfort zone at the moment. He needs to be planning for the next six months. How will he react to the government offering the public sector a choice between pay cuts or redundancies, for example?
    It's a fair point that Starmer is fighting on chosen ground at the moment and it will be much harder when it gets to the away leg. However, if he's asked to take a penalty and is expected to score, it's still reassuring for Labour supporters that he's doing so with such ease. I'm contrasting that with a decade of memories of leaders who repeatedly failed to score when presented with an open goal. If Starmer rather than the hapless Miliband had been leader in 2015, I think Labour would have won.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,344
    edited May 2020

    Sorry about that.

    I always thought I might go into a career after my retirement as an executive hitman, dealing with those particularly awkward individuals that blight organisations. Wealthy pensioners and serial complainers to HR would be obvious work generators.

    In the end, I decided that the hours would probably be too unsocial.
    Go for it, you could get Phoebe Waller-Bridge to write a worldwide hit drama base on your activities.
    Slaying Senior or somesuch.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030

    I do not really care, TBH. Some other talentless jerk will fill his shoes. Even the Tories will have to work really hard to lose an 80 seat lead so no doubt we have Truss, Patel, Hancock, Raab, et al to look forwards to as next up.

    And, no doubt, you would loyally support any of them.
    Not Patel but my support will depend on events

    I am not HYUFD, as he continual reminds me I voted Blair twice and as such I am no longer pure !!!!!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,537
    Local officials in Russia's Dagestan region have described the situation there as a "catastrophe", with reports of a rising death toll and serious shortages of equipment.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_xP said:

    Takes me back to the days of tim
    Tim had unique insights and a fantastic way with words. You... less so.

    But what you do share is that you are incredibly annoying. Keep up the good work!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559
    Scott_xP said:
    Would that be straight out a Communist bloc, Scott?

    You don't know, do you?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,537
    edited May 2020
    Fast food chain McDonald's has opened 33 drive-through restaurants in the UK – but customers are being limited to spending £25 per car.

    Now I don't frequent such establishments, but more than £25, that sounds like a hell of a lot of McDonalds.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,325



    If Boris recovers fully you are going to see a Boris-Rishi government like no other conservative government as it moves straight onto labours ground, largely because they are both that way minded, but also out of necessity

    The Snake's entire life has been a continuous and unrelenting fight for social justice and the disadvantaged. From Winchester to Oxford to Stanford to Goldman Fucking Sachs to choosing a billionaire for his father-in-law.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited May 2020
    Nigelb said:

    A modest proposal while we wait for solutions:

    I Have a “Quarantine Bubble” With People Outside My House. You Should Too.
    We put a lot of thought into doing this responsibly. It makes me feel like I can live this way for a lot longer.
    https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/05/why-i-decided-to-join-a-quarantine-bubble-and-you-should-too.html

    I absolutely agree with Cyclefree that the biggest cost of lockdown and social distancing are not economic, but human. Because belonging, connectedness, love - whatever you want to call it - is THE most important human need. It was the one thing Maslow got wrong in his hierarchy: it comes before physiological needs, because our evolution as sentient beings capable of speech has required newborns to create that connectedness with their mothers in order to survive, period. Without the strength of the need for connectedness, we don't even get as far as physiological needs.

    But the Quarantine bubble with a small group of non-household members is a good idea. How many people can we truly have intimate relationships with that engender the strongest levels of connectedness?

    Dunbar numbers suggest that 3-5 is the range for how many can be our very closest friends, our clique. This might be a good place to start with the quarantine bubble, and expand out from there. Of course, within the household unit, each person will have a different clique, even if there is some overlap, and those in the quarantine bubble from outside will have clique members neither in that bubble nor in their household. So I don't think everyone in a household could all jump from lockdown to Quarantine Bubble for all your clique members in one go, but perhaps slowly expand it as the situation progresses.

    And this expansion could continue. 12-15 is the deep trust number or sympathy group, which is the number of people from whom you can accept a small amount of betrayal without severing ties. That would be the next level but by this stage, there would not be many degrees of separation between everyone in the population.

    FWIW, the other Dunbar numbers are:
    50, the typical overnight camp size among traditional hunter-gatherers or the familial grouping, the band
    150, the the number of people for whom you can know something about them and their capabilities, i.e. for whom you can manage expectations = the friendship group. Dunbar's original research
    500, the number of people with whom we can remain nodding acquaintances = the tribe
    1500, the number of people for whom we can put a name to the face = the community. This is probably the underlying reason why army units and business divisions tend to be this size.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189

    I agree of course that playing with data is bad.

    I don't agree that reporting 2 tests on 1 person as 2 tests in the test column and 1 person in the person column is misleading.

    I think if someone takes a test, drops it on the floor, then takes it again the test dropped on the floor should be binned and the data should be logged as 1 test.

    Is that unreasonable?
    If a person needs both a saliva test and a nasal test to get a result that is surely 1 test with 2 component parts, not 2 tests? Getting a situation where the number of people tested is now 1/3 of the number of tests is just ridiculous.

    The really depressing thing is that even with all this jiggery pockery, England is still doing far better in testing than Scotland. How we get out of lockdown with insufficient, too slow testing and no ability to trace those who have been in contact with anyone who apparently had the virus a week ago is beyond me.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,344

    Some of the short-termism on here is really quite comical. Boris is already doing better against Starmer than last time, and he has another 4+ years to practise!

    I think he'll crack Sir Keira Knightly long before then :smile:
    Hooray, PMQs matter again.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    But she'll be able to rely on her own huge cohort of Green MPs to bolster her in the chamber as well ... oh.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,849
    Why would she abstain? As I suspect its a partisan attack why not ask if Zarah Sultana will abstain? Or if the Corbyn - Abbott 1 line whip to abstain on the predecessor bill last summer at the same 2nd reading was more proof of evil right wingers like Abbott and Sultana
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030

    No. Just no.
    HYUFD said:

    He won't, he was excellent at PMQs today, clearly beat Starmer and is on fine form
    Blimey. You are deluded
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    Carnyx said:

    Or a squid. The squid eye is much more rational.
    Three about equally unlikely propositions: that the eye was intelligently designed, that it was unintelligently designed; that it wasn't designed at all.

    Clever but not intelligent looks the most promising candidate from the data to me. But conceptually not really a starter. Maybe Kant was right was right and you can't think sensibly about causes outside our experience.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,537
    Government departments flouted their own spy chiefs' warnings to buy hundreds of Zoom videoconferencing licences for remote meetings during lockdown.

    More than 700 have been bought across Whitehall despite concerns Chinese spooks could hack the platform and steal state secrets.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/government-departments-bought-hundreds-zoom-22056562
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,849
    Congratulations to HYUFD. It takes a true blinkered partisan to hurl "you're a partisan" attacks at people who clearly are not. Bravo sir, it is fine cabaret
  • Johnson has clearly spent a week preparing for PMQs and still can’t do it. He is going to come to detest Starmer in a very personal way. Starmer is making him work and then relentlessly showing that he is not up to the task.

    Starmer is soporific in delivery, he will need to sharpen up dramatically to make much impression. Johnson handled that pretty easily to be fair.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Fast food chain McDonald's has opened 33 drive-through restaurants in the UK – but customers are being limited to spending £25 per car.

    Now I don't frequent such establishments, but more than £25, that sounds like a hell of a lot of McDonalds.

    Not for a family.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,342

    Well, compared to strutting populist right wingers like yourself everyone is a lefty. Most of Margaret Thatcher's cabinet, and even Margaret herself (God bless her) would be lefties compared to you.
    Mummy he's calling me names!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,537
    edited May 2020

    Not for a family.
    What ever happened to the dollar menu and the (un)happy meal?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Actually I thought he was better but only on the margins

    He does not look well

    I expect his ratings and HMG to continue to fall to be honest
    Dire.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Government departments flouted their own spy chiefs' warnings to buy hundreds of Zoom videoconferencing licences for remote meetings during lockdown.

    More than 700 have been bought across Whitehall despite concerns Chinese spooks could hack the platform and steal state secrets.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/government-departments-bought-hundreds-zoom-22056562

    I think that exaggerates how exciting civil service meetings are...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,327

    Two weeks in a row Sir Keir has apparently got Boris Johnson to say more than he intended. That looks like a win for Sir Keir in objective terms.

    Whether anyone will care if Boris Johnson's new target is missed, we'll see.

    I make that three weeks in a row. Boris' late rabbit from a hat winner ('I will ease lockdown on Sunday') two weeks ago initially looked like a stroke of genius but turned out to be a hostage to fortune.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405

    HOC goes on holiday tomorrow for two weeks and then a few weeks later will be on their summer holidays

    This is just wrong at a time like this

    Yeah the last thing you'd want to do in a time of acute national crisis is shut down the HOC for weeks on end, right? Only somebody with no interest at all in the country's wellbeing would do something like that.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:
    I know, right - how very dare the Tories have 163 more MPs than Labour do? It's just not fair! :lol:
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    What ever happened to the dollar menu and the (un)happy meal?
    Its still there.

    If we go to McDonalds for a treat we can spend just under £25 for a family of 4 if we buy 4 meals, with 4 desserts.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189

    Fast food chain McDonald's has opened 33 drive-through restaurants in the UK – but customers are being limited to spending £25 per car.

    Now I don't frequent such establishments, but more than £25, that sounds like a hell of a lot of McDonalds.

    Reminds me of super-size me. One of the most disgusting films I have ever watched.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030

    Yeah the last thing you'd want to do in a time of acute national crisis is shut down the HOC for weeks on end, right? Only somebody with no interest at all in the country's wellbeing would do something like that.
    It is the mps choice and it is wrong
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited May 2020



    I don't hate any politician I can think of in this country.

    I'm with you on that. However, I would take issue with you regarding one person on the other side of the Atlantic who seems to me to be the very personification of evil.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,163
    Foxy said:

    There are a number of other similar issues, but I wasn't on the design committee.
    https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/todo
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,537
    Was last week's "got Boris Johnson to say more than he intended" the 200k testing?

    Because, it might have been, might not have been, but it isn't a problem, as they clearly knew they had the antibody test approvals for 2 different products, with both companies saying they can make 100,000s a week for the UK, so it seems unlikely to be an issue.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235

    Starmer is soporific in delivery, he will need to sharpen up dramatically to make much impression. Johnson handled that pretty easily to be fair.
    Today was like watching an FA Cup match between two sides of vastly different pyramid positions and thus quality - Boris was expected to lose two nil, and he did. Wasn't embarrased as he could have been.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,849

    Its still there.

    If we go to McDonalds for a treat we can spend just under £25 for a family of 4 if we buy 4 meals, with 4 desserts.
    Especially if they've accidentally had to put their prices up...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    Why would she abstain? As I suspect its a partisan attack why not ask if Zarah Sultana will abstain? Or if the Corbyn - Abbott 1 line whip to abstain on the predecessor bill last summer at the same 2nd reading was more proof of evil right wingers like Abbott and Sultana
    Cos Yvette gave a speech saying why she "abstained in cross party spirit" on immigration Bill this week.

    Did any of the others you mention do that doubt it but you still fail in the task not to use the letters C o r b y & n in almost every post.

    Sad really.


  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189
    Scott_xP said:
    To be blunt the answer to this is yes. If migrant workers coming to this country are to have free access to the NHS, which they should have, they need to pay the equivalent of an insurance premium up front. Why on earth shouldn't they?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,205

    I know, right - how very dare the Tories have 163 more MPs than Labour do? It's just not fair! :lol:
    I think this is wrong. Even before lockdown, Boris had told Conservative backbenchers to stop barracking, and that was not as a favour for SKS but to help Boris. Of course, Boris could have changed his mind but let us wait and see.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,280

    Fast food chain McDonald's has opened 33 drive-through restaurants in the UK – but customers are being limited to spending £25 per car.

    Now I don't frequent such establishments, but more than £25, that sounds like a hell of a lot of McDonalds.

    Confused as to how the £25 cap prevents covid spreading. Are they worried about people buying for 10 houses in one car trip and doing their own deliveroo style deliveries?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    Dura_Ace said:

    The Snake's entire life has been a continuous and unrelenting fight for social justice and the disadvantaged. From Winchester to Oxford to Stanford to Goldman Fucking Sachs to choosing a billionaire for his father-in-law.
    My opinion of him nose-dived when I saw him doing an online interview in front of what looked like a whole bookshelf of fake books.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,137
    DavidL said:

    To be blunt the answer to this is yes. If migrant workers coming to this country are to have free access to the NHS, which they should have, they need to pay the equivalent of an insurance premium up front. Why on earth shouldn't they?

    If they are working, they are already paying income tax, and National Insurance and VAT, which is how the NHS is funded. Why do they need to pay an additional immigration tax?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,537

    Its still there.

    If we go to McDonalds for a treat we can spend just under £25 for a family of 4 if we buy 4 meals, with 4 desserts.
    These small humans seem to cost a lot of money.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,342
    Scott_xP said:

    If they are working, they are already paying income tax, and National Insurance and VAT, which is how the NHS is funded. Why do they need to pay an additional immigration tax?
    Run with "immigration tax" please
  • glwglw Posts: 10,367

    Was last week's "got Boris Johnson to say more than he intended" the 200k testing?

    Because, it might have been, might not have been, but it isn't a problem, as they clearly knew they had the antibody test approvals for 2 different products, with both companies saying they can make 100,000s a week for the UK, so it seems unlikely to be an issue.

    Abbott have said that they can supply 5 million a month to the UK immediately. If they and Roche are correct we are going to have no shortage of tests, but massive logisitcal problems of getting people and tests through the system. It's debatable whether we even need all these tests, we should perhaps be more focused on the turn around of tests.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,327

    But she'll be able to rely on her own huge cohort of Green MPs to bolster her in the chamber as well ... oh.
    You appear flustered.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,233

    Confused as to how the £25 cap prevents covid spreading. Are they worried about people buying for 10 houses in one car trip and doing their own deliveroo style deliveries?
    That would be my guess - along with rationing among the returning clientele. Those who haven't seen fast food junkies in action...
  • Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076
    DavidL said:

    To be blunt the answer to this is yes. If migrant workers coming to this country are to have free access to the NHS, which they should have, they need to pay the equivalent of an insurance premium up front. Why on earth shouldn't they?
    In the UK the health insurance premium is paid for by taxes. People who pay no tax this year but will pay tax next year are still allowed to use the NHS this year. This is how taxes work. The government has argued for years that tabacco tax cannot be hypothecated for NHS use, and the same argument goes for this immigrant tax.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,362
    isam said:

    Run with "immigration tax" please
    Does any country allow you to immigrate without paying fees and taxes?
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    With supposedly only 10% of Londoners having had this, i do find it quite interesting. Is it that actually a lot more have had it than the sampling suggests, is it that somehow a significant proportion of the population are immune or is it that the social distancing measures are highly effective. Or all of the above.
    We may need to listen more to people such as these

    https://unherd.com/thepost/german-virologist-finds-covid-fatality-rate-of-0-24-0-36/
    https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/05/19/professor-karol-sikora-fear-is-more-deadly-than-covid-19/

    and less to a man who

    apparently got foot & mouth and swine flu wrong
    broke his own lockdown
    may be unhealthily close to Gates and vaccine makers.

    Or, perish the thought, am I too cynical?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189

    Its still there.

    If we go to McDonalds for a treat we can spend just under £25 for a family of 4 if we buy 4 meals, with 4 desserts.
    When the kids were really young we used to use a Macdonald's drive through so I could keep driving and they could relieve the boredom of a long journey with a meal. I drove with the windows down because the smell made me nauseous and I'd rather go hungry. Thankfully the kids rapidly came to the same view. I am trying to imagine a world in which a Macdonald's is a "treat". I am not sure I want to.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    These small humans seem to cost a lot of money.
    They certainly do.

    Not sure of the exact prices but approximately.
    Happy Meal ~ £3.60 x2
    Adult Meals ~ £5.60 x2
    Muffins or other desserts ~ £1.20 x4

    Definitely only something we get as a treat not an every day meal.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    My opinion of him nose-dived when I saw him doing an online interview in front of what looked like a whole bookshelf of fake books.
    How very dare he attend an excellent school and university, have a high-flying career in finance and politics, and marry well into the bargain, all while barely breaking 40!

    It's just not cricket in lefty land.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235

    Confused as to how the £25 cap prevents covid spreading. Are they worried about people buying for 10 houses in one car trip and doing their own deliveroo style deliveries?
    Diabetes is a big comorbidity factor. Is the £25 limit by McyD's them "doing their bit ?"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,327
    HYUFD said:

    He won't, he was excellent at PMQs today, clearly beat Starmer and is on fine form
    Lol.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    DavidL said:

    To be blunt the answer to this is yes. If migrant workers coming to this country are to have free access to the NHS, which they should have, they need to pay the equivalent of an insurance premium up front. Why on earth shouldn't they?
    Don't they already pay taxes - which last time I looked is how we fund the NHS. People of working age barely use the NHS compared to the retired, anyway, and so from an actuarially fair POV they're probably overpaying already. This whole thing is a non-issue dreamt up by the Tories so that (a) they can persuade gullible voters to believe the NHS is falling apart because of forinners and not because they are underfunding it, and (b) they can establish the idea of some people having to pay for NHS services as a bridgehead for further erosion of the principle that it is free at the point of use.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    You appear flustered.
    No, just contemptuous.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Pulpstar said:

    Diabetes is a big comorbidity factor. Is the £25 limit by McyD's them "doing their bit ?"
    Surely it is as you say to prevent bulk ordering and the confusion/queues that creates
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    How very dare he attend an excellent school and university, have a high-flying career in finance and politics, and marry well into the bargain, all while barely breaking 40!

    It's just not cricket in lefty land.
    Timeo wiccamicos et dona ferentes. I think O Mosley was the last one to be so prominent in public life.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    When the kids were really young we used to use a Macdonald's drive through so I could keep driving and they could relieve the boredom of a long journey with a meal. I drove with the windows down because the smell made me nauseous and I'd rather go hungry. Thankfully the kids rapidly came to the same view. I am trying to imagine a world in which a Macdonald's is a "treat". I am not sure I want to.
    Why shouldn't it be a treat?

    And if you've not been there in a long time the menu is probably very different to what you're thinking of. We get our children carrot sticks instead of fries, I tend to get a grilled chicken wrap if I go. Why can't that be a treat, especially when you're on the road?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189
    Scott_xP said:

    If they are working, they are already paying income tax, and National Insurance and VAT, which is how the NHS is funded. Why do they need to pay an additional immigration tax?
    Because they are not residents or UK citizens. Our collective society pays for the NHS. We don't all chip in every year but over time most do. Migrant workers are visitors. Their tax contributions are irrelevant to the principle that if they want our societal benefits they have to pay for them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682

    These small humans seem to cost a lot of money.
    Crotch fruit are the most expensive STD out there.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,137
    RobD said:

    Does any country allow you to immigrate without paying fees and taxes?

    Again, they already pay taxes.

    This is an additional immigrant tax, over and above all the other taxes they already pay.

    Not even the US tried that one.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,537

    They certainly do.

    Not sure of the exact prices but approximately.
    Happy Meal ~ £3.60 x2
    Adult Meals ~ £5.60 x2
    Muffins or other desserts ~ £1.20 x4

    Definitely only something we get as a treat not an every day meal.
    Send off fruit picking :-)
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited May 2020

    How very dare he attend an excellent school and university, have a high-flying career in finance and politics, and marry well into the bargain, all while barely breaking 40!

    It's just not cricket in lefty land.
    So many couldn't have afforded to attend Winchester who I suspect are far more intelligent than this yes man, yet they won't get nearly as far because they weren't born into the right family and weren't lucky enough to get connections.

    It's just not realistic in righty land
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682
    God, at PMQS Boris put in the worst performance since Crassus at Carrhae.

    Never underestimate a lawyer.
  • DavidL said:

    Because they are not residents or UK citizens. Our collective society pays for the NHS. We don't all chip in every year but over time most do. Migrant workers are visitors. Their tax contributions are irrelevant to the principle that if they want our societal benefits they have to pay for them.
    There are immigrants who have lived here longer than I have been alive. They are not "visitors".
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    Timeo wiccamicos et dona ferentes. I think O Mosley was the last one to be so prominent in public life.
    The poor Wykehamists have only ever had one PM. I suppose letting them have the limelight once every few centuries should be OK.

    p.s. Surely you're not forgetting the great Seumas Milne? :wink:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189

    Why shouldn't it be a treat?

    And if you've not been there in a long time the menu is probably very different to what you're thinking of. We get our children carrot sticks instead of fries, I tend to get a grilled chicken wrap if I go. Why can't that be a treat, especially when you're on the road?
    Each to their own Philip. I hope your kids enjoy them. Millions obviously do.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,362
    Scott_xP said:

    Again, they already pay taxes.

    This is an additional immigrant tax, over and above all the other taxes they already pay.

    Not even the US tried that one.
    And my point is that it is unusual not to charge for immigrant visas. I suppose an alternative would be to abolish this additional charge and just increase the base cost of the visa by the same amount.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,137
    DavidL said:

    Migrant workers are visitors. Their tax contributions are irrelevant to the principle that if they want our societal benefits they have to pay for them.

    So you want a visitor tax, as well as an immigrant tax.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,344
    IshmaelZ said:

    Timeo wiccamicos et dona ferentes. I think O Mosley was the last one to be so prominent in public life.
    And after a stint as a Conservative mp was quite the fan of left wing & populist policies. Didn't end well of course.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189
    Scott_xP said:

    Again, they already pay taxes.

    This is an additional immigrant tax, over and above all the other taxes they already pay.

    Not even the US tried that one.
    In America they charge you for the medical help you receive. We don't.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,137
    RobD said:

    And my point is that it is unusual not to charge for immigrant visas. I suppose an alternative would be to abolish this additional charge and just increase the base cost of the visa by the same amount.

    Visa is a one-time charge. Taxes are for life...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,362

    There are immigrants who have lived here longer than I have been alive. They are not "visitors".
    Their arrival relative to the year of your birth is irrelevant.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited May 2020

    The poor Wykehamists have only ever had one PM. I suppose letting them have the limelight once every few centuries should be OK.

    p.s. Surely you're not forgetting the great Seamus Milne? :wink:
    Your PS makes my point all the stronger.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Conundrum of the day

    We had 2 parcels delivered - we were expecting 2 parcels

    Wife opens them - it becomes clear that actually one of those isn't for us.

    Checks label - its for next door - but the guy who delivered it did not say that, he just said "parcel for you"

    Packaging now ripped so its clear we opened it

    contents are one "geeky schoolgirl" outfit....................

    A bit early for Halloween and on a hunch guessing no fancy dress parties incoming........ :smiley::blush:

    How to hand it over in least embarrassing way for both parties ..........
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    The last McDonalds I ate was 30th March 2019 in Barnsley
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,137
    DavidL said:

    In America they charge you for the medical help you receive. We don't.

    We pay for it out of general taxation, which immigrants pay.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812
    edited May 2020
    DavidL said:

    If a person needs both a saliva test and a nasal test to get a result that is surely 1 test with 2 component parts, not 2 tests? Getting a situation where the number of people tested is now 1/3 of the number of tests is just ridiculous.

    The really depressing thing is that even with all this jiggery pockery, England is still doing far better in testing than Scotland. How we get out of lockdown with insufficient, too slow testing and no ability to trace those who have been in contact with anyone who apparently had the virus a week ago is beyond me.
    The test numbers are beginning to resemble the derivatives market at the height of the noughties madness. We have "the underlying" - a real and actual person who needs a test being tested - and then on top of this we have layers and layers of 2nd and 3rd order "synthetics", such as floating off the nose from the throat, the "have one get one free" special, the "dropped on the floor", the "lost in the post", etc etc, upshot being that the headline total is multiple times the base on which it is constructed. Rather like with the derivs, this is creative but it's dangerous.

    We also now have the grand announcement that everyone over 5 years old with symptoms is "eligible for a test". Now does "eligible" here mean will get a test in a reasonable timeframe? Or does it mean eligible to apply for one? Because there's a big difference there. I predict a storm over this could be coming soon.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2020
    DavidL said:

    In America they charge you for the medical help you receive. We don't.
    Indeed.

    One would have thought Scott might have considered that the US doesn't have an NHS before asking why there was no NHS surcharge.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,342
    edited May 2020
    Waiting for Scott to post a tweet

    "Source close to Michael Ball saying Captain Tom Moore 'difficult to work with' "

    ...seeing as Boris has secure him a Knighthood
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,362
    edited May 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    Visa is a one-time charge. Taxes are for life...
    This isn't for life. If you have indefinite leave to remain you aren't paying.

    And trust me, visa charges are not one-time things!
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192

    Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.

    Did you watch a different PMQs?

    The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787

    God, at PMQS Boris put in the worst performance since Crassus at Carrhae.

    Never underestimate a lawyer.

    Lawyers are simply overpaid actors.
  • Did you watch a different PMQs?

    The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
    Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,205

    God, at PMQS Boris put in the worst performance since Crassus at Carrhae.

    Never underestimate a lawyer.

    Blustering Boris returned but he did not seem so unwell as last week, so there's that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,362

    Did you watch a different PMQs?

    The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
    I think you are overstating the reactions on here just a tiny bit.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189

    Don't they already pay taxes - which last time I looked is how we fund the NHS. People of working age barely use the NHS compared to the retired, anyway, and so from an actuarially fair POV they're probably overpaying already. This whole thing is a non-issue dreamt up by the Tories so that (a) they can persuade gullible voters to believe the NHS is falling apart because of forinners and not because they are underfunding it, and (b) they can establish the idea of some people having to pay for NHS services as a bridgehead for further erosion of the principle that it is free at the point of use.
    How many countries do you think you can turn up in as a non resident and get free medical care? Have you never bought travel insurance? This seems to me a much more realistic and fair way of sharing the cost of treatment of migrants than issuing big bills after they have had that broken arm set.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405

    How very dare he attend an excellent school and university, have a high-flying career in finance and politics, and marry well into the bargain, all while barely breaking 40!

    It's just not cricket in lefty land.
    Er, I only gently ridiculed him for having a bookshelf of fake books. I have known some lovely people who went to Winchester, attended Oxford University or Stanford, worked at Goldman Sachs, married someone whose family was minted or some combination of the above, although sadly for me I don't fall into any of those categories personally. FWIW I think Sunak is easily the most talented member of the Cabinet, admittedly not a high bar currently.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682
    Pulpstar said:

    The last McDonalds I ate was 30th March 2019 in Barnsley

    What the chuff were you doing in Barnsley?

    That place is best avoided.
  • Genuinely think Johnson might be worse than May at PMQs. Who said he was a good orator, he can hardly speak clearly.
This discussion has been closed.